ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Continue To Spank My Teenager

I have and continue to spank my kids both 11 and 13. With their pants and underpants down if necessary. I will do no harm but just enough to get the point across.

Moderator - Past age ten they are too old for spankings.

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Parenting Bible Quiz
 ---Alan on 8/21/09
     Helpful Blog Vote (72)

Post a New Blog



Maria-- rarely bare-bottem (only for extreme offenses), more often spanked with underwear. Either one hurt. I never felt humiliated, although the spankings stopped by age 10. Some of the pain was psychological....I knew I had greatly displeased my parents (and deep down I wanted their approval)
---Donna66 on 2/7/10


I learned several years ago with my work with children in a shelter that an effective and mature parent/caregiver can settle issues and create good habits and behaviors with children without corporal punishment. If I stuck my adult spouse or another adult, what would happen to me? So why should anyone want to strike a child or be allowed to? Would Jesus strike a child?
---Buck on 2/7/10


The bible doesn't say past age ten are too old fo spankings so I don't think that's true.
---Angel11 on 2/7/10


Donna66 . How were the spankings administered ? Did you get it Bare Bottomed ?
---maria on 2/6/10


More excellent way-- Child abuse may lead to pedophilia. But most of my generation were spanked (not beaten) by loving parents. Few grew up violent or perverted.

The lesson I learned was NOT that it was OK to hit people, but that it was easier to obey my parents and treat them with respect, than any alternative. Only later, did I came to understand the reasons for this.

I don't believe I was ever injured. My parents never spanked in anger nor without explanation. My tears and apologies taught me something about repentance..There were always hugs afterward. and I knew the conflict was over. It was always a great relief...and a chance to start anew. As an adult, I was thankful that my parents had disciplined in this way
---Donna66 on 2/5/10




of course. if you don't take down their pants and underpants, they won't even feel it ! when you take them to the doctor and he or she orders "pants down" for a needle , would you say its humiliating ?
---martinez on 2/5/10


Scripture interprets Scripture. Metaphorical language is often used e.g. in Psalm 89, where mention is made of a covenant between the Lord and David and the family of David. The Lord warns that if they forsake his laws He will,
"visit their transgression with the rod and their iniquity with stripes," which obviously does not mean that the Lord will do these things in a literal way with a piece of wood resulting in physical wounds to the bodies of erring individuals. The reference is to the fact that sin will not go unpunished and the Lord will decide what method of discipline He will use. One of the 'rods' used on David himself was the death of the child conceived by Bathsheba.
---Lil on 1/31/10


jody ! do you believe in god ? god said if you spare the rod then you spoil your child . how will they ever learn to curb their behavior. if they know that they will get their pants down and spanked across the BARE TUSH , they will learn fast !!!!
---anon on 1/31/10


Sir, you are engaging in child abuse. You are of a violent spirit and teaching your children to be violent as well. Not to mention the discouragement and humiliation they must feel. What do they do that could merritt inflicting physical pain? You must at some level, realize that what you are doing is wrong or you wouldn't have the need to broadcast this bizarre behavior on a blog. If I knew you, I would not hesitate to report you to CPS. Your children need to be protected from you. You do not deserve those precious gifts from God!
---jody on 1/28/10


We teach respect by giving respect.
---chris on 1/28/10




Surely, I'm not alone in finding this to be one of the more disturbing blogs on Christianet.
---AlwaysOn on 1/22/10


patricha .in the 8th grd, there was a teacher from a previous year which I hated & didn't get along,so one day by recess I went & messed up his desk & drawers and he cought me in middle of the job ! he reported me to the principal , who came into my class & investigated. when I tried saying it was somebody else and not me only my hand,he called me up front , cleared the teachers desk and said "im going to get my paddle, when I come back I want you bent well over the desk. when he came back I was still standing . he lowered my pants (not my underpants) put me over & whacked !!! when I came home , my mom was all ready for me. the kitchen table was clear and the paddle ready, she lowered the underpants too
---pat on 1/20/10


pat. what did you do to get that strict paddling over the teachers desk ? did the principal make you bare your tush ? what did your parents say ?
---patricha on 1/18/10


You might ask yourself how long will you do this ? and where ? I know of a few states if someone decides to call protective services you can get your children yanked out of a home and may have some law enforcement officers to enforce the peace. I am not against disipline, but to beat the crap out of a child is Child Abuse, and I will say that certain states may put your kids in a Foster Home while you are sitting in Jail, and what I know about the corrections system, child abusers become target by other prisoners. also FYI some states will have your parental rights terminated. then your brain turns to mush, and even worse yet. read MATT 24
---Mark on 1/17/10


I have 6 kids (4 boys 2 girls) ages 3 to 21. I'm a spanker. I spank for any disrespect , lying,cheating & stealing. For a regular offence, I just turn em around & give 5 slaps with my hand to their butts. But if I see a child has a problem with a bad habit doing it over & over, then I take down the pants & underpants & use my paddle. (when my 21 yr. old acts like a child, I take him into my bedroom , I lower his pants - leave his boxer shorts on because he's an adult - but he gets a nice rosey tush with my paddle !
---patricha on 1/17/10


there is nothing more effective then a few good swats right across the tush ! . I remember when I was in 8th grade , getting a strict paddling from the principal in class right over the teachers desk . I really learnt my lesson !!! I never did it again !
---pat on 1/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


They can easily understand spoken words now and reason with you. You have to look for better methods of educating them on what they should do(proverbs, examples inclusive) & if they go against your idea of what is good, you should choose other methods of disciplining.
---Adetunji on 1/14/10


How awfully sad that you are unable to take the time to discipline them without hitting them. It is unnecessary to ever hit a child ( or anyone else for that matter). My three children have never been hit and we have always been complimented on their excellent behaviour, gentleness and empathy for others. What they did and still do have are clear expectations, boundaries and a good example from their parents. The example YOU are setting for your kids is that it is ok to use violence to make people do what you want.
Btw, the word 'discipline' means teaching, not punishment.
---Holly on 1/13/10


The pedophiles and serial killers of America are products of a bad childhood that included violence.

As an adult, some of the children of violent childhoods will constantly seek "cleansing" from a "dominatrix". Is this the legacy sought by "GOOD" Christian parents? At what age do you expect that you might stop "disciplining" them? Of course it is very distasteful to speak of in such a serious manner, but it must be said...

...would it be more fitting if the parent buys a dominatrix uniform with a whip?...you decide.
---more_excellent_way on 1/12/10


I pull down my boys' pants & briefs and put them over the table. believe me . they're WELL disciplined.
*****

a warped mind is generally molded by prior generations

your well disciplined children are simply WELL-humiliated

like many abusive love-less parents you have hated them WELL ...and for them your warped idea of "discipline" will be WELL remembered in your old age ...hate and humiliation is not lovingly remembered - it is FORGOTTEN ...and so will you be forgotten in old age by them

...hopefully as adults your abused children will break the generational cycle - receive counseling and teach love to their own children
---Rhonda on 1/11/10


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


Your 18-year old is a man. Way too old--it's also sexual abuse in his case, as you can surely see his "manhood" when you pull down his pants and underwear.
---Mary on 1/11/10


mary. I have 5 boys ages 8- 18. of course the younger ones get it more frequently, but even my 18 yr. old gets it every now and then.
---cynthia on 1/11/10


Cynthia, how old are your boys if you don't mind me asking?
---Mary on 1/10/10


mary . over the clothed bottom ? its not going to have any affect. I pull down my boys' pants & briefs and put them over the table. believe me . they're WELL disciplined.
---cynthia on 1/7/10


Shop For Church Furniture


It was one of those thin stinging paddles. He actually carved into the wood the words "Daddy's love paddle" lol

He rarely used the belt and for that I am thankful cuz it hurt WAY worse. I just never let him know that :D
---JackB on 1/7/10


Wow, JackB, if your dad was breaking a paddle over your "arse" he was spanking way too hard, you poor thing! You must've been very tough not to have tears in your eyes! My fiancee has the right idea, to me, with disciplining children: 3 swats with the hand over the clothed bottom--not abusive and not under-disciplining. He's a smart man lol
---Mary on 1/6/10


My dad used the paddle on me until the day he broke it over my arse around age 12 and noticed I had no tears in my eyes.

Then he just started using restriction and guilt. I think I liked the paddle better, at least that was over quickly...
---JackB on 1/3/10


Stop it! Once a child is past 10, spanking is out. There are too many options available to discipline children. One of the best is to talk to them, tell them what they did wrong and ask them what steps they are going to take to correct the situation. (It's not uncommon for a parent to assume a child knows the correct way. Plus, at 11 & 13, they are like a 2 year old - they will try you to see what your reaction is, if you don't tell them what's expected, you can't punish them.) You can also take away thier cell phone, I Phone or I IPod, ground them, etc.
---wivv on 1/2/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


If you are spaking your teenagers then you have failed in disciplining your children.

Displine including spanking is to help children learn to monitor and govern their actions. They need to force themselves to do right when you are not around.

By using spanking in such a demeaning manner you in effect destroying the self esteem and telling the children that you not only do not respect them but you still think of them as babies.

Time outs, removeal of privelages, etc are very effective in controlling children who in the process of learning self control.

What will happen is that you children will grow to hate the GOD you are using as a whip against them.
---Samuel on 12/4/09


dear ms. strict disciplinarian. I really applaud you ! both are needed for proper discipline. I would think that pants down might be too harsh, but I guess your the mom ! maybe if my husband would of gotten his pants down & spanked he wouldn't be so messed up
---margi on 12/4/09


kids needs to be spanked and disciplined at all ages. lower the pants and briefs from behind and use a paddle. I have 4 boys ages 8-18 . they all get their butts sore & rosey when needed. They also get hugs & kisses and presents when needed
---strict_disciplinaria on 12/1/09


did you ever stop to think that you may cause your children to hate you if you continue to spank at 11-13
---robin on 11/21/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


That's great !I applaued you . Do you use a belt, or paddle, when spanking your kids ?
---Jeri on 11/15/09


Mary ... If Gary thinks he still needs barebottom spanking, it just shows how ineffective and counter-productive the spankings and beatings in his earlier life were.
*****

oh the irony

how true ...more likely is Gary is here to cause a wee bit of strife just stopping by stirring up the pot ...doubt he means it literally most likely in a deviant manner

honestly - it is heartbreaking to hear that children are humiliated with pain as a form of punishment
---Rhonda on 11/8/09


Mary ... If Gary thinks he still needs barebottom spanking, it just shows how ineffective and counter-productive the spankings and beatings in his earlier life were.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/8/09


As an adult even?! Sorry Gary but your comment makes me ill!
---Mary on 11/8/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


I still remember those days when I got the cane to my BARE TUSH , and yes it did help me overcome all the bad character and bad traits I was born with. I think even today as an adult I could use a good dose of discipline for my naughtiness and you know where it should be administered. PANTS DOWN & BOTTOMS HIGH UP IN THE AIR. thank you . Gary
---gary on 11/8/09


I agree with the moderator.
Spanking at that age is humilation
rather than discipline. It is abuse.
---will on 10/31/09


Jesus Christ told us to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us. If someone hits us on one cheek, turn the other cheek & let them hit that one, too. Are we supposed to treat our own children worse than we treat our enemies? NO. The age of the child makes no difference except the smaller they are the more hateful it is to spank them. Jesus did not teach us to be violent. Matthew 18:6 Jesus said,"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Teach them about God. Pray for them & about them.
---Betty on 10/9/09


I wouldn't say you should pull down the pants EVERY time you spank but the threat should be there and children should know it could happen and when they step over the line there no questions asked or discussions only : Pants Down and Bottoms Up . administer what is called here in England SIX OF THE BEST
---maria on 9/3/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


Persons of the age you list are far too old for spankings. There are too many options available that can be employed to discipline, (not punish) a young person. For example: Taking away a cell phone, grounding, curtail of social activities, etc.
---wivv on 9/2/09


Mark Eaton,

You see I differ from you because I understand abuse different from discipline, I don't know anyone that say they were beaten as badly as we were as children my father would strip a tree branch and leave three leaves at the top and when he finished there wasn't a leaf to be found if he couldn't find what he called his swish, leather/plastic belt often we would get the leather belt( he'd even send us to get a belt to beat us with) which we'd give him because we wouldn't get burns from it.

What I am saying is if at the last resort all else fails charts, whatever a sure sharp slap is not abuse!
---Carla3939 on 9/2/09


Alan,



Give God a great big hug and kiss because you were one of the very fortunate people that unless you read my post incorrectly were praised that you could with the help of your late wife bring your children up in that manner.

BUT...

However

children were experimenting with drugs/sex at the age of 5/7 upwards I smoked because my friends were smoking, I tried marijuana, leb and speed because all my friends were trying it, but not once did I have to speak to my sons about drink and drugs they live and grew up where it is rife

I am 45 years of age and if you can calculate

It means when you were thinking how innocent children were It most certainly was NOT the case for many!
---Carla3939 on 9/2/09


Violence never accomplished a thing That's abuse) I'm not talking about abuse, it is far cry away from a corrective slap now and again.

It won't work for many but for those that understand themselves God and Life know a correct slap won't damage a child's intellect understanding or life.

I know well adjusted God fearing/serving Christian people know EXACTLY where I am coming from!

I don't mean the kind that use the words and names but violate every rule in the book!
---Carla3939 on 9/2/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


Carla ... I live in the "real world", not in an "idyllic world".

My wife was and I am "everyday people"

We had outside influences, but although these caused the children to be less than perfect, fortunately they did not cause us as parents to think that beating children was an acceptable way of continuing discipline.

I'm glad of that. ... and sorry that outside influences led you to think that beating almost-adult children is necessary.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/1/09


John:

Let me tell you what you are doing from the son's perspective.

If he has not already, your son will grow to hate you and your "god". Anything and everything that has to do with you, he will hate.

He will be unable to relate to God the Father, our loving Heavenly Father, because of his relationship with you. He will not trust people, trust God, or trust you.

My own father, a pastor, spanked and physically struck me until I was out of his house. I left home at 17 and never spoke to my father again until I confronted him about his parenting skills, twenty years later.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/1/09


Alan,

I am talking to people who live in the real world, not a idyllic world where two people come together with an understanding of discipline, work together as a family and can constructively work with their children in a non aggressive manner because the balance of love understanding and family life is not a hard nut to crack.(some families are blessed) but not the majority of families.

I am talking about everyday people who don't have that type of balance, their children do as they like, Parents do their best with their children but there are outside influences that effect the way a person perceives how they should and should not discipline their children.
---Carla3939 on 9/1/09


And what is your point? It can do harm, not least of degrading your children. I would urge you to try talking and reasoning with them instead. Striking someone is no way to show Christian love, least of all to your precious children. Violence begets violence
---Sue on 8/31/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


And what is your point? It can do harm, not least of degrading your children. I would urge you to try talking and reasoning with them instead. Striking someone is no way to show Christian love, least of all to your precious children. Violence begets violence
---Sue on 8/31/09


John....Why would you expose your older son's private areas to your younger children? You are a sick man. Get some help. Keep it up and your son may become man who enjoys pain.
---SusieB on 8/31/09


John .... "I think it works as he learns that if he misbehaves, he will be punished"

It works?

After 15 years, he still has not learnt.

John, you will make him into a monster, a bit like yourself
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/09


I spank my 15 yr old son with his boxers down and bent over couch and use long wooden hairbrush. I usually stop after he has been crying and if it is something serious i will continue for a long time until he has gotten the message. I think it works as he learns that if he misbehaves, he will be punished. His younger brothers have seen him getting spanked and they never misbehave as they don't want it to happen to them. But my oldest son needs it more often.
---John on 8/31/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


Carla ... now that's funny you needed to beat them even when they were bigger than you.

I've four children, (all now welll groen up) and after a one or two single slaps on the thigh when they were toddlers, neither my wife nor I ever hit them.

Strangely, they never went to jail.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/09


Alan, the bible tells us that God disciplines those whom He loves. Have you ever seen God pull down someone's pants and spank them? You ARE doing them harm. If you think you're not, you're deceived. But it's a harm that wounds go deep inside their being that can never be healed.

What you are doing is punishment, and abuse. My father whacked me with a black strap when HE got angry for what HE thougt were just reasons - that left me a very angry young lady who grew into a very angry young adult and then I had to cry out to God to heal me and deal with him. Punishment and abuse is different from disciplining kids. You need help, please seek professional help if you are spanking 11 and 13 yr old kids.
---anon on 8/31/09


There your children and if you feel that you need to spank their backsides as long as you don't break the skin or bruise them you are the parent and entitled to discipline your own children.
*****

and where does it say FROM scripture:

1) to strip children naked

2) to not break their skin

3) to not bruise them

self professing RELIGIOUS christianity has become MORE WARPED and sexually deviant as the age draws to an end

beating a naked child is sexually perverted and God have mercy on the souls of the parents who practice this vile behavior

spanking a child is found in Gods Word however not one word supports humiliation and REMOVING their clothes
---Rhonda on 8/31/09


There your children and if you feel that you need to spank their backsides as long as you don't break the skin or bruise them you are the parent and entitled to discipline your own children.

Don't be fooled by the ''Do Gooders'' their not the ones that will have to go down the local station to get them out of jail when things spiral outta control later in life.

You bet my kids get a clap on their kin, now and again I have six Two in University (look where they are now) and when they grew too old I stood on the chair and expressed what they'd get they weren't too old!

Never once did I have to go to collect them from jail!
---Carla3939 on 8/30/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


spanking pre-teens and teenagers is a LAZY hateful ignorant parents abuse of POWER and CONTROL who twist Gods Holy Word to appease their deviant sexual appetite by stripping children of clothes beating them is sexually perverted

...at this age less than a decade away from adulthood it TEACHES nothing other than a quick VERY brief sting of pain and humiliation from parent for whatever wrong ...it does not teach correction responsibility or communication only anger and hate ...the sexual undertones of this warped form of POWER by out of control adults are carried through life by the child affecting work, future relationships and often resulting in very deviant behavior as they learn to associate pleasure with pain

Rhonda/AZ
---Rhonda on 8/29/09


Char...My comment regarding CPS was meant as a wake-up call for you. To even think that taking clothes down on a child to spank is not child abuse is pathetic. The spanking itself is child abuse, but the other part is sexual abuse. The problem with this kind of treatment is that the spanking is usually administered when the parent is angry.
---SusieB on 8/28/09


Wow!Spanking at 11 and 13. I believe is humilation at this age. preteen and a teenager YOU do not have to spank to "get you point across" at this age there are many things you can do.No allowance, TV, Malls, can not talk to or visit friends for period of time etc.
---BB on 8/28/09


call cps..Huh?(only response):spirit (behind)comment questionable.


Alan,
I'm thinking...your question on a Christian Blog,is seeking advise.

God as Father is the best Parent who gives the Best advise...
we can try but may fail.

James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom,let him ask of God That giveth to all liberally,and upbraideth not ,and it shall be given him.

Here's the beauty in you as a parent.
If you didn't love your children you wouldn't discipline them.


The World has ways of twisting things...
Reading the "Frequently asked question" on the website Elder Phil posted.
I think I may understand comments that of Phil and Donna.
Praise God,God is judge.
Holy Spirit guides.
---char on 8/26/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Phil the Elder --
I googled
THE GLOBAL INITIATIVE TO END ALL CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN

It's as I suspected, a part of the UN effort to bring about global governance...and set themselves up as the supreme expert on all matters of life and behavior, for the rest of us morally retarded and probably illiterate primitives.

Needless to say, I don't respect their "authority" about anything much.
---Donna66 on 8/25/09


Char....Call CPS and see if they think that pulling a child's underwear down and spanking them is "border line abuse" or not.
---SusieB on 8/25/09


cont'...
11 yrs is still pre-teen.
Pray and ask your Father how to transition into the next step.
Our children have been assigned to us for guidence.
They need to be aware the presence of God,Our Father is real.
Moving forward into adulthood,Our Heavenly Father continues the correction in our earthly parents absence.

I hope this helps.
---char on 8/25/09


I can't judge you.
My concern is the emotional harm.
This can be border line abuse.

Teach them repentance and remission.
Pray with them to the Father in the Name of Jesus for forgiveness for what they may have done.
Teach with the Word of God,let him so the spanking.
Parent to Parent.
God is OUR PARENT,
we as earthly parents,still need correction.
Through mercy and grace,he forgives us.
---char on 8/25/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


They are too old for this, and I think that the only thing that you are teaching them right now is to resent you, just like I still resent my mom for spanking me when I was a teen. And she spanked me over some pretty stupid stuff!
---amand6348 on 8/24/09


Jake....It's not the spanking that is the problem. It is the humiliation of having your pants down that is the problem. Would you do this to your daughter?
---SusieB on 8/22/09


What???? They are still children at ten. God says "Spare the rod and spoil the child." I think that's your answer. However you want to interpret that.
---Stacey on 8/22/09


Alan ... What sort of offences do they commit that demand spanking?

And does the spanking have the effect of improving their behaviour?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


They are too old for spanking. They are only learning REBELIOUSNESS and to be a control freak for the rest of their lives.

Do you want them to learn to be good people because they fear spanking or because they have learned to make good decisions on their own??

They are children, they are supposed to be mischievious and discover for themselves the folly and shortcomings of bad decisions so that they can learn how to make BETTER and wise decisions in the future when you are not around (or is it your intention to handicap their learning?).

They need to learn that the penalty for a bad decision is "personal FAILURE", not "your WRATH".
---more_excellent_way on 8/22/09


Did it occur to you that stripping and spanking these children as they begin sexual maturity could easily get them to associate pain with sexual pleasure, and thus turn them into either sadists or masochists?

Or do you care?

Are you sure there's not a hint of this in your own motivations for doing so?
---Cluny on 8/22/09


Their not to old to spank, but I would leave the pants on..I would start slowing down on the spankings with the 13 year old, the teen years are tough enough, try grounding at times. remember back when you were that age.
---a_friend on 8/22/09


Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Spanking or rodding, it's up to the parent. global initiative? you sound like an ecumenical antichrist NWOist. humiliating? you think you spank kids as a reward? As a young child u hate it cause it hurts. damn right when u get older it will be humiliating! If your child is too rebelious to heed your more merciful methods, you better get them under control - you will answer for how you raised your child as well. Cite verses.
---Jake on 8/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


harm? private parts? you realize there are some ppl who grew up with some serious spankings and they are fine?

age 10? who drew the line? the line is drawn by the parent.

provoke children? if you spanked them for no reason yes, but not if they did something wrong!

geez!
---Jake on 8/22/09


Depending what state you are in corporal punishment of any one under 18 may be considered child abuse. Even if done in the home. The Adult can be charged with criminal assault on a minor the children can be removed from the family some times for years.

There are only 21 states that still allow corporal punishment in the classroom [and a parent can still do it spank as well]. Any where else it may be dangerous for the Adult

There is a group called THE GLOBAL INITIATIVE TO END ALL CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN they are the primary force leading the change statutes on a world wide basis Including initiatives to change the text of the Bible. If this bothers you, check them Out!!!
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/21/09


Mod is 100% correct. The humiliation you inflict on them is far worse than the physical pain caused by your spankings. Scripture says we are not supposed to provoke our children. Ephesians 6. At 11 and 13, they are intellectuallly developing to where they can understand reason and start processing critical thinking. Instead of tapping into that, you are humiliating and degrading them.
---Trish9863 on 8/21/09


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.