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Big Salaries For Church Leaders

Why do so many church pastor's and non-profit ministries take such a big salary? Do they not know that the world is watching and God has commanded us to be a good and faithful steward of what He has given us?

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 ---don on 8/24/09
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The size of a pastor's salary in these times often reflects the amount of permissibility in his doctrine. The more carnal, the more lucre. Mega-church followers are not in the least bit put off by the excessive salaries of their pastor, au contrare, they are all too willing to buy into what he is selling! That's the sad truth. They are not concerned with his indulgent lifestyle because they are quite content with the notion that they can hold onto their sin and still go to Heaven. Great money brings great power and already these pastors are collaborating. Type HopeCity into Google and see how many of the top links they have secured...smart. Dave Gilpin is not going to fail where Paul Scanlon did. These two false churches have their ties.
---John_II on 9/23/09


It truly amazes me that some pastors view themselves to be of the Levitical priesthood with the tithe being money going to the storehouse, the church checking account. Disgusting to say the least..... Lee
--------------------------------
If they actually were, would not their actual take be 10% of 10% or only 1%? That is what I seem to remember from scripture. The priests were only allowed 1% of tithes. The rest went to the Levites (tribe), the poor, the widows, orphans, and disabled people. Also, I think there was a seperate tax imposed by kings to pay for the temples.
---obewan on 9/9/09


It truly amazes me that some pastors view themselves to be of the Levitical priesthood with the tithe being money going to the storehouse, the church checking account. Disgusting to say the least..... Lee

Lee - These pastors are committing crime against God Himself and I am sure they will someday pay the price. What really amazes me is how many of these false teachers actually know the truth but teach the lie IN ORDER TO BRING IN MORE MONEY. The rest are merely the blind leading the blind. Either way, it's a sad situation with so many trusting their pastor to teach them the truth. Like I've said before, you can't believe what your pastor says any more than you can believe what a used-car salesman says.
---Gary on 9/8/09


IF they do not violate the following scriptures, God bless them. Elders: 1Timothy 5:19-22 (two plus reputable witnesses). Not permitting this violates 1Timothy 3:1-15, Titus 1:6-9, 1Peter 5:2. If the charge is justifiable, Romans 16:17-18, 1Corinthians 5 come into play.
Exodus 18:21, Psalm 10:3, Proverbs 15:27, 28:20, Ecclesiastes 4:8, 5:10, Ezekiel 33:31, Isaiah 5:8, Habakkuk 2:9, Matthew 6:19-34, Mark 7:21-23, Luke 12:15, Acts 5:1-11, 20:33, Romans 1:28-33, 1Corinthans 6:8-10, Ephesians 5:3-5, Colossians 3:5, 1Thesalonians 2:5, 1Timothy 6:5-19, 2Timothy 3:1-9, Hebrews 13:5, Jude 1:11, 2Peter 2:14-15.
---Glenn on 9/8/09


//it is a shame you had to be put through that, but you are probably right.

What such an experience does is to make us realize that pastors are also an arm of flesh, with their own passions & prejudices. We really cannot put too much trust in them as they clearly have their own agenda.

As to this issue under discussion, I am alarmed at the number of prominent pastors & theologians who teach tithing. The tithe was basically an agricultural tax designed to support the Levitical priesthood & the temple. It truly amazes me that some pastors view themselves to be of the Levitical priesthood with the tithe being money going to the storehouse, the church checking account. Disgusting to say the least.
---lee on 9/8/09




Lee it is a shame you had to be put through that,but you are probably right,Many in the South were still very opinionated 30 years ago. I guess we can't blame the man for operating the way he believed but that is still no reason to leave you dangling,expecting him to do something he had no intention of doing in the first place. Whatever his reason for what he did it was just plain bad manners. He should not have made the appointments to begin with. When he made an appointment to participate in something he didn't believe in,then he became a liar presenting a face to people which is false. No matter if appoinments are skipped he lied,he said its ok by making an appointment and then compounded the lie by not showing up.
---Darlene_1 on 9/6/09


Good question. I would not attend any such church or support any such ministry, that lives an opulent lifestyle. I feel it is contrary to how Christ lived and what scripture teaches. I do believe in the Abrahamic covenant. God's Word says if we believe, we will be blessed as Abraham was blessed. How blessed was that? He was the wealthiest man of His day. BUT, we are indeed to use money wisely, to help the poor, the widow, the orphans, to spread the gospel, that others may enter the Kingdom of God. I feel that those who live lavishly are in question of making it into the Kingdom of Heaven. After all, the Word says it is not those that say, "Lord, lord, who enter the Kingdom of Heaven, BUT he that DOES THE WILL of the Father."
---Alena on 9/5/09


if we are told to be stewards of money god has given us, then we should use it to help alleviate the sufferings of the poor & not use it to buy luxury cars, multi million $$ homes & private jet.

also, I find it hypocritical when a pastors will tell you that 'self' is a sin when he does not & cannot practice what he preach like 'self-denial'

and that is a way to be 'blessed' is to be a hypocrite.
---mike on 9/4/09


Darlene -**Lee a Pastor missing appointments is wrong. Pastors making promises they don't keep is also wrong.

The pastor came from a small community in the deep South where racial prejudice is deeply rooted.

I suspect that one reason he missed his 2 appointments was his belief the Bible forbids one should marry outside ones race.

The woman I married was a US citizen and school teacher from the Philippines. But that was over 30 years ago.
---lee on 9/4/09


Rod, yes there's too much to do ministering to members for one man. There's nothing wrong having laypeople help in visitation but one must make sure the people meet all the Biblical standards of a person who is qualified to lead. A good solution is the Senior Pastor,then have other ordained ministers in the church assistant Pastors. The reason for being ordained is I think it is good to keep the ordained trained ministers working in the church for the experience,the practical along with the spiritual. If there are no other ordained then certainly the mature Christians who are full of the Holy Ghost,prayed up and experienced to meet with people to pray for them,not a novice,no counseling except giving the Word to cover the situation.
---Darlene_1 on 9/3/09




Megachurches have a place, if they preach the Gospel.

For those who are seeking spiritual answers, but want to feel free to leave if they don't find them....a megachurch is a good place.

For those who have been hurt in a small church and are fearful of getting too close...a megachurch can be a healing place.

For those who have been "burned" by serving to the point of exhaustion in various capacities in a small church...a megachuch can can provide rest.

It's sad that these pastors often feel they need to outdo the "movers and shakers" of the world in appearance. It's hard for them to stay humble.
---Donna66 on 9/3/09


\\ Cluny: The rich church is not a myth. For your church maybe but not for others. Every televanglist you see on tv is rich or very wealthy.\\

Television, by definition is NOT a Church.
---Cluny on 9/3/09


Darlene. "Yet I have known far more who are wonderful to everyone and do their level best to meet all the members needs when possible."

I know we touched topics on another blog. You keep helping me with a focus I've had lately. That is that there is no Biblical basis of a one "senior pastor." He can't meet all the needs because he is not supposed to. The members are to do the "work of the ministry." A problem developes because clergy set themselves up to meet all the needs then get in trouble when they don't.

The doesn't mean that there not great good meaning "pastors" who are doing their best.
---Rod on 9/3/09


Lee a Pastor missing appointments is wrong. Pastors making promises they don't keep is also wrong. I know of one Pastor who was perfectly wonderful to one member's family but failing others in the Church. I do not hold for that type of behavior whether it be a Pastor or Laymen. Yet I have known far more who are wonderful to everyone and do their level best to meet all the members needs when possible. I think it is very important for a Pastor to appoint delegates in the Church to minister to the Body of believers when he can't be there. I think sometimes the members do expect too much from their Pastor and when he fails those expections,which are impossible for any mortal to keep up with,they label him as bad Pastor.
---Darlene_1 on 9/3/09


Same with a pastor. If you don't check out what he does with the money you give him, you have denied your own responsibilities.
****

I POSTED DO homework BEFORE GIVING ...inability of people to do their HOMEWORK BEFORE they join a church let alone GIVE to it ...drug addict is not an analogy to a pastor

again my point is pastors who are responsible with their money may have other means and resources to have a lavish lifestyle ...busybodies who DON'T give who spend to much time talking about the pastors lifestyle ...and ones who make a show of GIVING MORE than their "fair share" become OBSESSIVE about the money they GAVE AWAY - AFTER THE FACT

...irresponsible to GIVE MONEY then go check out where it goes
---Rhonda on 9/3/09


Robyn--Do you read what others on this blog have to say? NO ONE disputes that the celebrity pastors you mention are very wealthy...and there are quite a number like them that you didn't name..

But for each of them there THOUSANDS that have never been on TV, whose names haven't been heard outside their own towns, who minister to 50 to 200 people and who scrape to get by.
---Donna66 on 9/2/09


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In Christian conference yesterday a man made the following statement while speaking about Mega-Churches. Surely these churches are the ones that God spoken of when he said some having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof!!
---mima on 9/2/09


While it is obviously true that the megachurches are very wealthy, they basically attract those that seek entertainment.

However, it is often what goes on in the background in the small groups that some are reached with the gospel.

At least that is what I have been told by one from a megachurch when I voiced my criticism.
---lee on 9/2/09


I believe this statement made by Gary "Those who REJECT WHAT JESUS DID FOR US ON THE CROSS, AND CONTINUE WITH THE LAW, WILL BE CURSED BY THE LAW."
---Gary on 8/29/09 ----- to be correct.

If your church teaches keeping the law it can only be teaching the law in order to gain salvation. Plainly the Bible that by keeping the law no one will be justified in the sight of God!!
---mima on 9/2/09


Cluny: The rich church is not a myth. For your church maybe but not for others. Every televanglist you see on tv is rich or very wealthy. They all have churches in various cities. TD Jakes is very, very rich. He has a megachurch in Dallas. Paula White is rich, Bynum should be rich,by now. Hagee is rich. Creflo Dollar is rich. Should I continue? The grandaddy of them all,right her where I live in Houston,TX is: Lakewood, Joel Osteen and Company. Now dispute that!
---Robyn on 9/1/09


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This seemed like an appropriate place to share this explanation of how the church developed to where it is, in general.

"When the Greeks got the gospel, they turned it into a philosophy, when the Romans got it, they turned it into a government, when the Europeans got it, they turned it into a culture, and when the Americans got it, they turned it into a business.

I'm sorry I can't remember who to give credit to for that statement. I know it's going to be one of my favorites.
---Rod on 9/1/09


Then he himself has to pay income tax on the fair rental value of the property, according to US tax law.

---Cluny on 9/1/09

He is actually paying the mortgage himself, but becuase it has been declared the parsonage, he doesn't have to pay about $20 grand in property taxes every year
---NurseRobert on 9/1/09


\\ Here in Rochester there is a inner city church. The pastor lives in a house worth over $500.000. He "deeded' the house to the church for $1, claimed its a "parsonage" so he wouldn't have to pay property taxes on it. \\

Then he himself has to pay income tax on the fair rental value of the property, according to US tax law.

I just learned today that my pastor gets paid only ONCE EVERY THREE MONTHS because of other expenses the church has to pay.

It's only because he had a previous carreer as an engineer that he and his wife are able to live on their savings.

So much for the myth of the rich church!
---Cluny on 9/1/09


//They commit to whatever their hearts desire and then expect the congregation to pay for it.

That reminds me of the church I used to belong to.

The pastor talked the church into practically re-building the parsonage, and then talked them into selling it to him when he retired at a much lower than market value.

Of course, the congregation was mad at the elder board but all too often elders are tightly controlled by the pastor as he sees to it that those who may not support him are not elected to those positions.
---lee on 8/31/09


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Robyn -- Don't tell me you believe that MOST Christians attend churches like Lakewood Church? Do you believe Joel Osteen's salary is typical?

There are other churches like his, but numerically, mega-churches are comparatively few in number. There are more pasters who can barely feed their families than there are
tele-evangelists who flaunt their big houses and flashy cars.
---Donna66 on 8/31/09


//Lee: Sorry to burst your bubbles but preachers make much,much more than the figures you listed in your post.

The figures come from the internet itself when you google pastors salaries.

Of course, those figure represent the median average, not the arithmetic average.

So birds like Osteen and those of the megachurches really do not figure in because theirs does not represent the 'middle' salary value for pastors.
---lee on 8/31/09


to robyn

I disagree with you. if that is the pastors / televangelist's only focus is to make money, then they are using god for profit. there are those who really serve god & spread the good news not make millions of dollars. and it is not principles they use to work in their favor, they are just exploiting the book of malachi. they use it as a prosperity gospel. most of the time they would say 'give your 10% & you will be blessed.' paul did not enrich himself but he always preach the gospel not material things.
---mike on 8/31/09


to robyn

and if these televangelist would say to seek god's word, then where in the bible, what book, what verse say that these pastors, televangelist should earn big salaries, when they tell us to be contented with what we have.
---mike on 8/31/09


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They use priniciples that work in their favor.
---Robyn on 8/31/09

You mean the principle of lying? Like telling people God commands them to tithe or they will be robbing God if they don't?

I only personally know of ONE mega church that doesn't teach tithing. John MacArthur teaches the truth when it comes to money. His mega church brings in the money withOUT teaching the tithing lie. He correctly teaches that tithing is NOT valid in the Christian church. Why don't the rest of the mega church pastors have enough faith in God to teach the truth instead of lying about tithing?
---Gary on 8/31/09


Lee: Sorry to burst your bubbles but preachers make much,much more than the figures you listed in your post.
Here in Houston. Lake wood Church has more members than your money figures,ok. They generate million os dollars a month and possibly, a week. Joel Osteen and his entire family is very,very rich. They have no money worries. If he never stands in another pulpit,this man can live like a king. At least he and his wife and family. And please don't forget his mon,Dodie. She takes a huge salary,also.
God does not necessarily forbid pastors and non-profits to not take money. It is according to their faith,business techniques and opportunites available to them. They use priniciples that work in their favor.
---Robyn on 8/31/09


My experience has been.........

Just about the worst stewards of money are pastors and other church leaders. They commit to big mortgages on the church building and then have to keep begging for people to tithe (which ended at the cross) and give even larger offerings to meet the payments. They commit to whatever their hearts desire and then expect the congregation to pay for it.

Pastors and other church leaders are the most materialistic people I have ever known.
---Gary on 8/31/09


Money corrupts.

It nearly broke my heart when one of my favorite pastors, who I thought was the most honest person on this earth, had a meeting with me in private and told me that I was 100% correct that tithing ended at the cross, and that there is no way to bring tithing into the New Testament. He teaches robbing God, etc. and told me HE HAD TO TEACH IT THAT WAY BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST DON'T WANT TO GIVE, AND THE CHURCH WOULDN'T GET ENOUGH IN CONTRIBUTIONS TO KEEP THE CHURCH DOORS OPEN.

Since then, I have had others tell me the same thing - that their pastor admitted in private that he/she lies about tithing, but that it was necessary.

You can't trust what your pastor says any more than what a used car salesman tells you.
---Gary on 8/31/09


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Rhonda - Your reason is faulty. You want to put the blame on the pastor if he is not a good steward of his money while ignoring your own responsibilities.

Example: If you give to someone who is addicted to drugs, they will take the money to support their drug habit. Using your reasoning, the drug addict is the poor steward, not the one who gives to the addict. If you know the person is a drug addict, then you would be a poor steward of your money to give to him. Same with a pastor. If you don't check out what he does with the money you give him, you have denied your own responsibilities.
---Gary on 8/31/09


Rhonda - You seem to miss the whole point of being a good steward of the money God gives to you. You SHOULD BE very concerned what the pastor does with the money you place in his hands. If not, you are a very poor steward of God's money.
*****

Really?

you are a steward of YOUR OWN money ...if you GIVE it to a pastor HE then becomes the steward

the point is it is a GIFT (from the heart) and you cannot GIVE and then continue to OWN the GIFT (GIFT = GIVEN AWAY)..if one did their homework BEFORE joining they would trust pastor doing work of God
---Rhonda on 8/31/09


This concept seems to have started in the second and third century. I am just learning more on this,but church history seems to have followed the structure of the Roman Empire. One powerful person at the top. The Roman Catholic Church developed, then the Reformation, and the Reformation folks followed the structure of the RC on a more local level. There appears to be something in mankind that wants a visable leader even though we are seeking a spiritual life. The Israelites wanted a King even though God was their King. God gave them a King in Saul. A disaster.
What is scary about large salaries for so-called ministries comes from widows who are poor. I got that information sometime in the past and don't have a source now.
---Rod on 8/30/09


Rhonda - You seem to miss the whole point of being a good steward of the money God gives to you. You SHOULD BE very concerned what the pastor does with the money you place in his hands. If not, you are a very poor steward of God's money.

When I find a pastor is not using the money properly, I stop giving, and find another church. I don't continue giving for bad causes.

Giving to a church is NOT giving to God. If you think it is, please give scripture.

Tithers are not only ignorant as to what the Word of God teaches, they are also poor stewards of God's money just blindly handing over a tenth to a pastor who has already lied to you about God's tithe.
---Gary on 8/30/09


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Pastors say the tithe goes to the storehouse.
Nehemiah 10:37-38 says firstfruits go to the temple and the tithe goes to the Levites to go INTO THEIR CITIES.

Pastors say the Levites worked full-time at the temple. Numbers 35:1-3 and Joshua 21:1-8 says the Levites were given cities to live in and suburbs for their farms. 1 Chronicles 24 and 25 says the Levites were divided into 24 "courses" and ROTATED working at the temple.

Pastors say you tithe on the first ten percent of your income. Leviticus 27:30-34 says you tithe on one-tenth of the crops and every tenth animal, not the first.

Pastors say you tithe on your income. Leviticus says you tithe on farm assets.

Pastors have NONE OF IT RIGHT!
---Gary on 8/30/09


//if "heart giving christian" then WHY CHECK IN on WHERE their MONEY IS GOING ...very much a double minded approach

It is simply a matter of RESPONSIBLE stewardship to find out where the money you contribute to the Lord's work is going.

Some have given much to the Lord only to find out that those who head the charity live a very lavish lifestyle. In fact, some charities give as low as 4 cent on a dollar and the rest goes into their fundraising and adminstration expenses.

Check on Charity Navigator - a watchdog organizaton, on some of these organizations. You may be shocked what you see.
---lee on 8/30/09


Rhonda - Please give scripture you use to support tithing in the New Testament, or even tithing on income in the Old Testament. It isn't there. You have been duped like most others.

Please, Rhonda, SHOW US the scripture that supports tithing on your income. Don't just tell us it is there. SHOW US.

I gave you the scripture that is clear tithing was for the Levitical priesthood, that when the priesthood changes, the law changes, and that the law was disanulled. You obviously haven't studied this topic on your own but rather believe your pastor's or denomination's teaching.
---Gary on 8/30/09


Rhonda - Maybe it will be easier for you if I take you step by step through the process:

Step 1: Hebrews 7:5 confirms that Levi received tithes according to the law under the Levitical priesthood.

Step 2: Hebrews 7:12 tells us changing the priesthood will also change the law.

Step 3: Hebrews 7:18 verifies that the command to tithe was disannulled (canceled).

Step 4: Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 confirm that the Old Testament laws were abolished, nailed to the cross.

Step 5: Galatians 4:5 tells us that Jesus redeemed those who were under the law. Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 also tell us how Jesus redeemed those under the law by nailing the laws to the cross.

Not enough space for Step 6.
---Gary on 8/30/09


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they must think of themselves as Levitical priests with their checking account being the new storehouse.
*****

interesting view ...missing the point ...if "heart giving christian" then WHY CHECK IN on WHERE their MONEY IS GOING ...very much a double minded approach

TRUST would have to work BOTH ways ...seeing they CLAIM they are GIVING SO FREELY AND FROM "the heart"

if truly "giving from heart" pastors lifestyle is irrelevant TRUSTING their pastor with handling the money they "GAVE from the heart" properly

storehouse has purse strings controlled by "heart giving christians" TOO wrapped up in how THEIR money (they gave away) was distributed to their pastor
---Rhonda on 8/30/09


It is very unfortuate that those pastors who teach tithing are totally blind to the fact that there are people in our society in which the tithe would be food right off their table while for some, say a successful dentist, the tithe is a necessary tax deduction.

These money hungry pastors do not trust God enough to provide for their salaries or the ministries of the church as they feel they need to exploit the ignorance of people who know not the scripture.

And they argue from silence that the tithe designed to support the Levitical priesthood and the temple, was not abrogated by the New Covenant. they must think of themselves as Levitical priests with their checking account being the new storehouse.
---lee on 8/30/09


The New Testament teaches giving from the heart, NOT tithing. And many of us that give from the heart give a lot more than those who tithe.
*****

interesting although NO scriptures support Gods Tithe was abolished in NT

YET I do see WHY it is important for "heart giving christians" to be certain everyone KNOWS they give from heart AND its A LOT MORE than 10%

VERY TELLING how those who "give from heart GIVE more" making WRONG assumption those who OBEY following Gods tithing law don't give MORE than 10%

fascinating how the obvious point I was making was missed ...those who DON'T give from heart or tithe - however one most LABEL it - are one's who COMPLAIN most about a pastors lifestyle
---Rhonda on 8/30/09


Rhonda said "ronically one's who complain most don't tithe"

The New Testament teaches giving from the heart, NOT tithing. And many of us that give from the heart give a lot more than those who tithe.

Tithing was ABOLISHED in the New Testament. Pastors LIE, LIE, LIE about the tithe. Just READ YOUR BIBLE.

Hebrews 7:5,12,18 proves that tithing was disanulled. Ephesians 2:15, Galatians 4:5, and Galatians 3:10 prove that the law was nailed to the cross, and those who REJECT WHAT JESUS DID FOR US ON THE CROSS, AND CONTINUE WITH THE LAW, WILL BE CURSED BY THE LAW.
---Gary on 8/29/09


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pastor taking big salary because it is HIS church and a church makes money by tithes ...HIS congregation giving church tithes ...tithes MISUSED for excessive income funding a lavish lifestyle ...so many attend church give to it THEN complain pastor's house too big, car too nice, suits too expensive ...do homework before attending REVIEW accounting reports ...salary expenditures stated there ..ironically one's who complain most don't tithe

there are some pastors having benefit of lavish lifestyle from previous employment or given to him by wife working or a family who gives heavy donations to him so he can just focus on "pastoring"

many are unaware of these if accounting reports are hidden like many churches do today
---Rhonda on 8/29/09


these pastors / televangelist use the book of malachi in order to justify their big salaries. they will tell their congregation to give 10% & the doors of heaven will pour out its blessing that the followers will not have any room.

then you will see these televangelist having private jets, luxurious cars & multi million $$$ homes.

or give your tithe to god & you will succeed. isn't that the gospel of prosperity?
---mike on 8/29/09


//To anyone who thinks a Pastors job is easy follow a Pastor around for one week and see what all he does.

yes, Darlene, there are a few good pastors out there that are truly dedicated to their work. But I would really wonder if the majority really reach any measureable acceptable standard.

I have seen the good ones and a few bad ones. One bad one missed 2 appointments with my wife to be and myself. As a result we were married elsewhere and he was accused by his elder board of not doing his job. He did get the big bucks however for what little that he did. The last time we visited that area, that church was without a pastor.
---lee on 8/29/09


To anyone who thinks a Pastors job is easy follow a Pastor around for one week and see what all he does. To a true pastor church is held in love and esteem,he knows the church belongs to God and he is responsible for that church which is all the people and the building. It is a trust from God to nurture the flock. A good Pastor prepares the sermons,after he has spent time praying for God's leading for what he brings for each service. He is there at the side of a loved one who is dying lending his strength and prayers to ours. He is supporting the one in the hospital and family with encouragement and prayers. He is on call for anyone needing prayer anytime you need him. He and the Deacons manage the money to run the church. And Lots more.
---Darlene_1 on 8/28/09


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Manny -

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (NIV) 13Dont you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Galatians 6:6 (NIV)Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

I do agree that the Word of God does NOT support having full-time paid pastors.
---Gary on 8/28/09


Manny...You obviously are not very well acquainted with a pastor if you think all they do is preach. Try living next door to the church and see how often someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night or calls 24/7.
---SusieB on 8/28/09


Manny ... so you would have a pastor who is on duty 24 hours a day, therefore with no opportuity to have any other "job", and have him receive noincome?

How would he feed himself?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/28/09


Manny -- Are you saying pastors should not be paid by their congregations? Is their work of LESS value because it is the LORD's work?
Can the pastor have a family? Families have NEEDS.

Some small churches try to support a pastor, but are too poor to provide complete support.
In this case, the pastor has to divide his time between a "secular" boss and his Holy one. It's hard. And it's usually the church people that suffer.

Some pastors can handle a secular job and still do justice to their ministry. At least being part of the work-a-day world helps them understand those to whom he ministers.

But a minister who flaunts his large house and fancy car has already harmed his followers in my view.
---Donna66 on 8/28/09


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SusieB - Robyn has found the Lord alright. It is her disappointment in how man is treating the Lord, specifically pastors. My opinion of pastors, in general, is not good. My opinion of many "so-called Christian" church goers is not good.

I find the dishonestly displayed by pastors and other church leaders to be simply appalling. I find more talking behind one's back and back-stabbing in church than anywhere else I've been.

I seldom go to any local church any more because I am so fed up with their politics and dishonesty.
---Gary on 8/28/09


I'd like to take this further guys, and not just talk about church leaders who receive BIG salaries... but those who receive salaries in general.

By common definition, salary, is the payment one gets for the work he/she has rendered. If you're a clerk, you get a salary for the clerical works you did.

Now, what do church leaders supposedly do? They preach God's words...that's the work they do. So, if they're getting salary, then in effect, they are being paid to preach God's words.

Think about it guys...
---manny on 8/28/09


"I watch over what God has given me. And that does not mean lining my pastor and no other charlatan's pockets with my money,or anything else, that belongs to me. I have been treated very poorly by church leaders and my own pastor. Very unfriendly and uncaring. If it was not for the Lord I would not even attend church. sorry to sound so angry and cynical,but this is how I feel. If they heard what I am saying now, they would put me out of the church."
---Robyn on 8/26/09


Robyn....I am sorry that you feel this way. It is sad to see someone so bitter that all they can talk about is what "belongs to me" and not what God has done in their lives. I will pray that you find the Lord soon so you can have some peace.
---SusieB on 8/28/09


Here in Rochester there is a inner city church. The pastor lives in a house worth over $500.000. He "deeded' the house to the church for $1, claimed its a "parsonage" so he wouldn't have to pay property taxes on it.

His congregation is made of lower income members...
---NurseRobert on 8/28/09


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You can say all you want about the low salaries at tiny churches, but with the mega church trend pastor's salaries have become hugely inflated.

One church in Orlando, FL pays its pastor a salary of $365,000 a year. He lives in a $2 million dollar house. When pressed by the media he responded that he needed to be an example of how God wants to "bless us" to all the former prostitutes and drug addicts in his church. What if the blessing was supposed to be a $6 Wal-Mart job?

At First Baptist in Jacksonville the pastor draws a salary of $385,000. One man started his own blog in protest and they got a police official who is a church memeber to rout him out and reveal his hidden identity. A big lawsuit followed.
---obewan on 8/28/09


I feel that its because there have been so many false leaders till we have a problem with totally putting our trust in God and knowing that those whom he has chosen they are due a reward earthly from those who they feed(spiritually) Why shouldnt they be blessed as God deems for them to be? Just as we work hard in on our daily jobs and expect a paycheck then why not the men of God?(even though there greatest reward is in heaven) As far as the world watching, thats their job, look at how they watched Jesus. You even have christians who watch. Remember even in his perfection they still watched and criticized him.
---Roze on 8/27/09


Darlene_1 - Okay, I can go along with that. My original problem is that I've known people who judge the success of a minister, or anyone else, by the material things they own. And IF that were they way to judge people, many drug dealers would come out on top.

But yes, I agree, God does take care of His people.

Hope I didn't offend you, and thank you for coming back in a nice way.
---Gary on 8/27/09


Gary,You don't understand what I meant. I'll explain. Yes I wrote those words and its true. Not because they are material things but because people are preached to how God provides,how we can trust him for our needs, & we can. Phillipians4:19 But my God shall provide all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. That has been given to show God provides. When people are expecting that and a Minister/Evangilist shows up to preach,he is driving a beatup old car,shabby clothes people will say evidently that verse isn't true,God hasn't provided for his Minister. Right or wrong, first impressions are lasting impressions and Christians are often the only witness others see,how we look does speak to people.
---Darlene_1 on 8/27/09


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cluny - pastors salaries range $29,534 to $55,481 with one year experience,

$27,970-$53,555 for 1 to 4 years experience,

$32,740- $57,286 for 5- 9 years experience,

$37,344 - $66,331 for 10 to 19 years
experiences,

and

$42,764 - $75,864 for 20 or more years experience.

But these figures do not take into account benefits such as educational or travels allowances, housing allowance, etc.

Theirs is a highly competative profession and all too often pastors get pushed out of their profession. In other words, the profession has a high rate of attrition.
---lee on 8/26/09


Robyn - I know what you mean.

I was told I WASN'T WELCOME at one church. I went there because my godson was the drummer, and since I am the only dad in his life, I want to show my support to him.

To clarify, I am white, and my godson is black. I love him and treat him the same as though he were my biological son.

I was the ONLY white person at that church when I was told there were those who did not feel comfortable with me being there. When I tried to pursue the issue, I was told, by the church leadership, they could not stop me from coming to their church, but I was not welcome there. That's just ONE of many examples I can give as to how I have been treated in so-called Christian churches.
---Gary on 8/26/09


Don, can you tell us EXACTLY how many pastors and such "take such a big salary"?

Do you have any figures to back up your question's assumption?

And how big a salary do they take? Be specific.

Or do you think that they get their homes, food, clothes, car, and other necessities of living for free?

Jesus Himself said on this matter, "The laborer in the vineyard is worthy of his wages."
---Cluny on 8/26/09


//Himself, if He were to show up in your church, in human form, and sit right next to you.

While I would hestitate to say that of Darlene, the old saying is that some would never recognize the Truth if Jesus were sitting next to them.

We do see, however, many ministers giving back generously to the work of the church what they have earned. Rick Warren is one who claims to tithe some 85 % (howbeit, that would still leave him in the millionaire club).
---lee on 8/26/09


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I watch over what God has given me. And that does not mean lining my pastor and no other charlatan's pockets with my money,or anything else, that belongs to me. I have been treated very poorly by church leaders and my own pastor. Very unfriendly and uncaring. If it was not for the Lord I would not even attend church. sorry to sound so angry and cynical,but this is how I feel.
If they heard what I am saying now, they would put me out of the church.
---Robyn on 8/26/09


Darlene_1 - These are YOUR words: "I enjoy seeing well dressed ministers it shows me and all others God does take care of those who serve him."

So YOU are telling us that material things, wordly things, how your minister dresses, shows YOU and "all others" God does take care of those who serve him.

YOU are looking at material things to show you that God takes care of others.

Is that how God takes care of those who serve him, with nice clothes, big homes, expensive cars, etc? I am NOT judging you, only repeating what YOU say and think.

Again, open you Bible and start studying.
---Gary on 8/26/09


Gary No not in other words,that is you talking not me. No,in the first place I don't judge,period,in all places I don't judge. The Bible says Matthew 7:1,2,3.5 Judge not,that ye be not judged. For with what judgement you judge,ye shall be judged:and with what measure you mete,it shall be measured to you again.And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye,but considerest not the bean in thine own eye? Thou hypocite first cast own the beam out of thine own eye,then can you see clearly to cast out the mote from thine brothers eye. There is also a good chance you will be able to see there was no mote in the others eye to begin with.
---Darlene_1 on 8/26/09


Darlene_1 - In other words, Darlene, the material things you can see, the wordly things, are how you judge success. You need to open your Bible and start studying the word. You, like most, wouldn't recognize Jesus, Himself, if He were to show up in your church, in human form, and sit right next to you.
---Gary on 8/26/09


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I agree. Jesus told his disciples to take no coin for there ministering. They only accepted shelter and food type items. My church does not pay the ministers to preach. they either work jobs or are retired from their jobs. They never stop or retire from being a minister. They do it til they die. They do not write a sermon to use in church. God said to his disciples think not what you will say for I shall fill your mouth. We take up one collection on Saturday night to pay for utilities, needy families, things that need fixing or a building fund. Right now we have about $2500.00 in our fund. It is so spiritual and full of blessings when I go to church that I cry tears of joy each time I am blessed. We don't have much but we have each other.
---Rhonda on 8/26/09


//Why do so many church leaders take such a big salary?

"Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter." (Isa.56:11)

The bible calls them GREEDY DOGS. These are the shepherds/pastors/church leaders who cannot understand God's words. They will never understand because of their greed, because they are only after their own gain, and because they are WICKED as mentioned in Daniel 12:10 "...and none of the wicked shall understand..."
---manny on 8/26/09


The Rick Warrens and Joel Osteens are very much the exception.

You'd be surprised how many ministers of all churches--and yes, Catholic ones, too!--have to have secular employment to support themselves and their families.
---Cluny on 8/25/09


God gives seed to the sower and what they reap is born of what they had sown. If you plant abundantly you reap abundantly. Maybe they do get big salaries but it takes a lot of money to travel all over the world,eat in restraunts,stay in hotels,have good clothes,God don't want his people who bring the Word to be shabby. So God gave them the ability and anointing to write,good for them if they use it to write books telling how to be a Christian in this mad world. I enjoy seeing well dressed ministers it shows me and all others God does take care of those who serve him. Besides you don't see the hard times they had when they start in the Ministry,many of them,many times went from place to place, & prayed their way there on little of nothing.
---Darlene_1 on 8/24/09


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What truly bothers me is that some of these pastors and theologians write books that earn them royalities in the millions of dollars.

One such person is Rick Warren author of the Purpose Driven Life which sold over over 55,000,000 copies according to one source.

I am not disputing this persons honesty or integrity.


But with the big money comes lots of power and influence over those that must make decisions on our behalf.
---lee on 8/24/09


Lawrence, I believe you are exactly correct. I believe for the most part, these big salary preachers are simply hirelings - John 10:12.
---trey on 8/24/09


They are there for filthy lucres sake. God watching dont seem to bother them at all. Them receiving money from those that send it to them. A number of their Bible teachings are true, BUT, where they are teaching lies for salvation is, once saved always saved - say this little prayer - easy beleivism - no works salvation - the sinners prayer etc(there's No scriptural basis for such). There Are those that pay them to lie to them for the tickling of their hearing, for what they want to hear.
---Lawrence on 8/24/09


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