Warwick ... There is of course a difference you did not memtion.
The Japenese in America were interned because they were perceived to be a threat because Japan was the enemy of the US
The Jews were exterminated like vermin because of the ravings of a madman.
I just can't get my head round the fact that no-one put a stop to his madness. |
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---alan8566_of_uk on 9/2/09 |
Warwick-- Indeed, there is a big difference.
But the popular idea now, is that America is, and always has been, the worst country in the world. History has been taught with this bias in American schools and Universities for some time. |
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---Donna66 on 9/2/09 |
Let us compare what happened to Japanese Americans before and during WW11 with what happened to German Jews during the same period. About 6 million Jews were murdered, beaten, starved, gassed, shot, strangled and treated with brutality which is beyond comprehension.
What happened in the USA was most unpleasant but pales in comparison to that which occurred in Germany.
I wonder what the hidden agenda is, of those Americans who seek to undermine their own country. No country has a perfect record but the above comparison shows the difference between error and evil! |
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---Warwick on 9/2/09 |
NurseRobert-- The sad thing about the Japanese is that they were NOT ememies (with very rare exceptions).
But in the wake of a surpise attack by Japan that plunged us into WWII, anyone of Japanese descent was suspected...of being a spy, an informant to the enemy. Because they were not caucasion, they were subject to the old "They all look the same to me" lament.
Most were not imprisoned, but relocated into very basic housing. They were able to bring few personal possessions.
They can never be compensated for their losses. But through hard work, they have become very prosperous as a group, now. |
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---Donna66 on 9/2/09 |
When was there a law requiring enemy combatants to have access to an attorney?
never...until now, they have NEVER had this privilege. If Bush was wrong about this, every war-time president in our history was also. |
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---Donna66 on 9/2/09 |
Don't forget the Japanese Americans in WWII. I will forever wonder what happened to their homes and personal possessions when they were thrown in prisons.
---obewan on 9/2/09
They were forced to sell and hugh losses. They lost their homes, their personal property and, even after "AmericanJapanese Claims Act" of 1948, they still did not get what they were owed. (The book, Snow Falling On Cedars talks about this).
Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act (1988) Bush signed Civil Liberties Act Amendments (1992), but even with that, they still were not recompensed fully.
A black mark on American History. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/2/09 |
Warwick:
Yes, but what about people like Jose Padilla? He was an American citizen, arrested on American soil, and accused by the government of being an enemy combattant (which they used to deprive him of his civil rights of counsel, speedy trial, Habeas Corpus, etc.) Such practices are indicative of a police state - where the government can just "declare" someone to be evil and then strip them of their rights without any recourse. ---StrongAxe on 9/2/09
Don't forget the Japanese Americans in WWII. I will forever wonder what happened to their homes and personal possessions when they were thrown in prisons. |
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---obewan on 9/2/09 |
Warwick:
Yes, but what about people like Jose Padilla? He was an American citizen, arrested on American soil, and accused by the government of being an enemy combattant (which they used to deprive him of his civil rights of counsel, speedy trial, Habeas Corpus, etc.) Such practices are indicative of a police state - where the government can just "declare" someone to be evil and then strip them of their rights without any recourse. Similiar practices also occurred during the Salem witch trials. The constitution expressly guarantees rights to prevent such abuses. |
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---StrongAxe on 9/2/09 |
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NurseRobert-- before June 2008 there was no law to this affect. You can't blame Bush for not following a law that didn't exist.
---Donna66 on 9/1/09
Donna, there WAS a law. Bush decided he could do what he wanted. The Supreme Court said he couldn't. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
Nurse Robert -- Can we get rid of Obama's CZARS the same way we got rid of Ashcroft? There is NO way to get them out as they are responsible to the president alone.
---Donna66 on 9/1/09
One, we didn't "get rid" of Ashcroft. He resigned, saying ""The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved."
Two, what is a "Czar" other than a consultant. They have no power to make law and any thing they do has to be consistent with law. I have no doubt the republicans will be keeping an eye on them.. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
How can you stand up to terrorists, by being weak?
"Wisdom is better than weapons of war,
.But one sinner destroys much good."
(Ecclesiastes 9:18)
"There was a little city with few men in it, and a great king came against it, besieged it, and built great snares around it. Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city. Yet no one remembered that same poor man." (Ecclesiastes 9:14-15)
And if a nation kills her own unborn, is this not oppression . . . of the weakest citizens? This is not being strong. With the character of this present, no methods can work. |
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---Bill_bila5659 on 9/1/09 |
NurseRobert-- before June 2008 there was no law to this affect. You can't blame Bush for not following a law that didn't exist. |
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---Donna66 on 9/1/09 |
Nurse Robert -- Can we get rid of Obama's CZARS the same way we got rid of Ashcroft? There is NO way to get them out as they are responsible to the president alone. |
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---Donna66 on 9/1/09 |
How can we stand up to them by being weak?
War Is a vile thing and I pray for peace but peace is not won by weakness. The bully respects only strength.
---Warwick on 9/1/09
You stand up and whip their butts, but you do it, not just with might, but the moral courage to do it right.
Stooping to torture just puts you in the same moral catagory as the enemy. My 30+ years in the military taught me that. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
NurseRobert, I know of no US law which gives suspected enemy combatants access to lawers. Nor should there be. What a gravy train that would be for lawyers! And the long-suffering public would have to pay for it!
Highly organized Islamic terrorists have declared war upon the 'infidel' west. They are using great oil-wealth to fund terrorism, to impose Islam upon the whole world. The do this because the Koran and the Hadiths command them to do so. As Christians we are commanded otherwise but we can defend ourselves, if necessary, and it is necessary.
How can we stand up to them by being weak?
War Is a vile thing and I pray for peace but peace is not won by weakness. The bully respects only strength. |
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---Warwick on 9/1/09 |
NurseRobert -- In the whole history of the US warfare, no enemy combatants (or POW's either) have had a right to an attorney.
---Donna66 on 9/1/09
In June 2008, the Supreme Court ruled "foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts and that the Administration's treatment of prisoners, is violating the rights of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges."
So actually, they ARE entitled to a lawyer.
but, as Nixon said: "When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal" |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
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Then there's Mark Lloyd, avowed Marxist and "diversity CZAR" who states:...
---Donna66 on 9/1/09
Sort of remind me of another great American who said:
I feel the best way to ensure Americans' freedom is to tighten restrictions on that freedom in any way possible. Only through wiretaps, illegal searches and seizures, unfettered government intrusion, a controlled media and a complete crackdown on free speech can we ensure the liberties of all people." -- Attorney General John Ashcroft |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
Donna.
Agreed
StrongAxe: "it's wrong whether you believe in God or not"
Huh? without a moral agent who says it's wrong and what is the meaning of illegal without moral absolutes?
My point is that if its to our advantage to start putting bamboo chutes under fingernails do it? For unbelievers morals are a moving target with social mores and the times, e.g. abortion,gay adoption and inter-racial marriage were unthinkable 40 years ago.
Its not that unbelievers don't believe in right or wrong, my point is that for pagans right and wrong changes and evolves so they can torture and not sweat the details. Another attack and nothing will be off the table. Its called situational ethics. |
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---larry on 9/1/09 |
(ex post facto prosecution is illegal according to the Constitution, anyway)
---Donna66 on 8/31/09
Hey, Donna who do you know that is abiding by the Constitution any more?
How come I heard so much (right here) about how bad it was to tap phone calls going out of the country by terrorist suspects but nothing is being said about the citizens "spy and tell on your neighbors" policies?
Just skip all those things and tell me what you think "Mr. Fix It" is going to "Fix" next. Maybe our little red wagon. My mother used to tell me that.... "Stop that or I'll fix your little red wagon."
By the way, how come THIS medical bill is so important to Obama when he said he hasn't read it? |
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---Elder on 9/1/09 |
President Obama's environmental adviser, Van Jones, was the main speaker at an anti-war rally that urged "resistance" against the U.S. gov.
The rally was sponsored by an organization associated with the Revolutionary Communist Party, which calls for the overthrow of the U.S. gov and its replacement with a communist dictatorship. VJ is an admitted black nationalist and radical communist.
Robert, i really hope you're right about this being a dumb scenario.
wayne5363 |
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---wayne on 9/1/09 |
NurseRobert -- In the whole history of the US warfare, no enemy combatants (or POW's either) have had a right to an attorney. Bush acted on precedence.It is illegal according to the Constitution to prosecute someone for something that was not an offense at the time they acted.
Wayne, I know what you mean. Do people not listen? Do they not hear? Do they not care!
Then there's Mark Lloyd, avowed Marxist and "diversity CZAR" who states:
It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press. This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies. |
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---Donna66 on 9/1/09 |
Obewan -- Obviously, when I stated "Let me be 'tortured' by the USA", I was speaking of the conditions that would be in effect should that ever happen. |
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---Donna66 on 9/1/09 |
The agenda to prosicute the CIA is the first move to overthrow our gov as we know it.
---wayne on 9/1/09
I never though I would say this, but this is absolutely the dumbest statement I have seen you post.. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
StrongAxe -- That is true if it is clearly a crime. |
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---Donna66 on 9/1/09 |
wayne:
Any prosecution of the CIA (or other government agency or individuals) would necessarily proceed under US laws. This is not an overthrow of the US system, but an affirmation of the US system. In order for someone to use such processes to overthrow the system they would FIRST have to change the laws under which such prosecutions are carried out.
As far as communists or other factions wanting to take over the government, they would have to do so by rule of law. They would need to convince 51% or more Americans to vote communist candidates into office, and 67% or more to change the constitution to install communism. If 2/3 of Americans ever WANT a communist country, they would get what would they want and deserve at that point. |
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---StrongAxe on 9/1/09 |
The agenda to prosicute the CIA is the first move to overthrow our gov as we know it. To sympathize with the muslims. To protray the US as the imperials who have caused hardships on the rest of the world.
Look at the van jones speech in 2002. VJ is an admitted commy. He said this country should be over thrown and a dictatorship should be set up.Is this where we are heading? |
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---wayne on 9/1/09 |
I want my lawyer!
---Warwick on 9/1/09
Tell that to the Bush administration.. They denied the right to an attorney to the "detainees" at Gitmo. |
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---NurseRobert on 9/1/09 |
wayne:
Hawaii twice declared Obama's birth certificate genuine. Why do people keep flogging this dead horse?
ralph7477:
If congressmen cheat on their taxes, they should suffer the same penalties as anyone else!
larry:
Unbelievers can respect laws too. If torture is illegal, it's wrong whether you believe in God or not.
Donna66:
If your boss tells you to commit a crime and you do it, you will BOTH go to jail.
Also, while Americans are supposed to have due process, under Bush's policies, those rights were thrown out the window. Google Jose Padilla, and American citizen who was held without charges for three years until the Suprme Court finally ruled against that. |
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---StrongAxe on 9/1/09 |
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Millions of people are taking life-threatening risks, and in fact many die, trying to enter western democracies. Are there also millions desperately seeking to enter Burma, Pakistan, Afghanistan,North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc No!
That should tell us lots!
I agree, if I am to be interrogated please God let it be in a western country and not any of the above. I want my lawyer! |
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---Warwick on 9/1/09 |
They must not deprive me of sleep or subject me to extreme temperatures....
...And on top of that they will read me my Miranda rights so I can be represented by an attorney!
---Donna on 8/31/09
Really? The must not or they do not? Reality does not line up with the standards then in recent years because sleep deprivation, cold temperatures, and no attorney were the norm for "enhanced" interrogations in Cuba. Also, when have they been having trials? Hundreds have been held for five years or more with no trial or formal charges. It would help your argument more if you told the truth and admitted that the CIA actually CAN to wrongs in some cases. |
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---obewan on 9/1/09 |
larry -- If I am ever to be tortured, please, please, please let me be "tortured" by the United States.
Unlike in some Asian and Middle-east countries, Americans are not allowed to hurt me, threaten me, frighten me or humiliate me. They can't even blow cigar smoke in my face! They must not deprive me of sleep or subject me to extreme temperatures.They must provide an adequate diet.
They can only ask me basic questions like name, rank and serial number. And on top of that they will read me my Miranda rights so I can be represented by an attorney!
I'm sure there are terrorists out there who secretly wish to captured and held in the USA. |
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---Donna on 8/31/09 |
This has been investigated SO MANY TIMES, if Cheny had anything to hide, I'm sure it would have been uncovered by now! |
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---Donna66 on 8/31/09 |
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someone mentioned that the reason Cheney didn't want the investigations to procede is he might be hiding something. What about BHO not releasing all of his records, especially his birth certificate? I think the ethics committee should investigate most of the czars he has appointed as advisors. |
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---wayne on 8/31/09 |
"They ARE subject to US law, and they can't just break them whenever they think it happens to be a good idea."-StrongAxe.
Does this also apply to things like underreporting or not reporting income on tax returns, failing to pay income taxes or falsifying financial disclosure forms? Just wondering when the investigations are going to begin to look into guys like Geitner, Daschle, Charlie Rangel, and their financial shenanigans.
Hey maybe the CIA guys can say that their actions were simply an oversight and it won't happen again. That seems to work for all the tax cheats. |
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---ralph7477 on 8/31/09 |
Donna, StrongAxe, Warwick all interesting thoughts but I'm not sure why non-believers are in a tizzy about this?
If there is no God and if we are to rewrite history and take out our Judaic-Christian heritage and what's wrong with torture? Without the inhibitors of the holy spirit you're free to feed them to the lions on the basis of tit-for-tatm no trial or evidence needed. Why carry around the burden of a conscious if your father is Satan?
For us Christians we know the debate is senseless because unless the Lord watches over the city the watchman watches in vain, but pagans need strong external controls.
The fact, as McCain noted, that it doesn't work and serves as a recruiting poster for Al Queda is another issue. |
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---larry on 8/31/09 |
StrongAxe--
How about THIS possibility? Investigate and charge (if necessary) those who determined the action in question was alright, the DECISION MAKERS...NOT those who THOUGHT they merely doing what was required.
Of course, this same question has been investigated NO LESS than 3 TIMES ALREADY by goverment prosecuters who did NOT see anything to prosecute! Even the President promised not to prosecute. This must be motivated by politics.
AND HOW ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY...we establish a policy and prosecute no one ex post facto if the policy "changes"? (ex post facto prosecution is illegal according to the Constitution, anyway) |
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---Donna66 on 8/31/09 |
donna66:
Regardless of whether the DOD or the CIA or any other government agency are related to one another or not, this has no bearing on whether they are subject to US law or not. They ARE subject to US law, and they can't just break them whenever they think it happens to be a good idea. |
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---StrongAxe on 8/31/09 |
Donna66:
Options when goverment officials (or anyone else) break the law:
1) Let them get away with it. This helps us a bit because it lets them continue to operate, but hurts us greatly because it establishes us as the Wild Wild West where men do anything they please. Most people reject this as soon as the law-breaking hurts THEM personally.
2) Punish them. This hurts us a bit, because we lose the services they provide. But it helps us greatly because it establishes us as a nation of laws that must be respected by discouraging further abuse. This is why we can impeach corrupt politicians - and why courts have rules of evidence, to prevent police from trampling our civil rights with the excuse that SOMETIMES it's in the public good. |
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---StrongAxe on 8/31/09 |
to donna66
so what happened to valarie plame wilson. her identity was exposed when her husband said that there were no wmds in africa.
if dic chaney is criticizing obama for the investigation, that means he is hiding something. |
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---mike on 8/31/09 |
By punishing the CIA members, our national security is damaged.
Who will want to make a career out of risking life and limb only to have the next administration change policy and prosecutes them ex post facto?
These agents should be gathering foreign intelligence, not spending time in court.
Foreign operatives, noting the sieve-like quality of American intelligence, will not trust a secrets to us, lest it be published in the New York Times..
Obewan- "retribution" had nothing to do with it. Getting urgently needed information did.
Do you really think being "nice" will make us likeable to our enemies? Do you think they ADMIRE a soft approach and want to copy it? Study Muslim culture a little. |
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---Donna66 on 8/31/09 |
Uh Oh...I admit it, I've been confusing The Justice Department with the Defense Department, quite a difference! I should have caught this error sooner.(but DOD probably does have to approve some of what the CIA does.)
What I said about Congress, however, stands.
In any case, go after those in the Justice department who are responsible. NOT the CIA agents who were simply working under authority. |
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---Donna66 on 8/31/09 |
Strongaxe-
They CANNOT act without approval by the department of defense!
Congress DOES not and SHOULD not have access to most classified information---few have security clearance.
There are many decisions congress does NOT make. Can you image a congressional "committee" deciding on any "urgent" international tactical matter!
Nor are decisions of the CIA decided by bureaucrats (unlike so much of government).
Those who make decisions for the CIA have many years of actual experience in covert, military or security operations. |
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---Donna66 on 8/31/09 |
Mistreatment of detainees only throws gasoline on the fires of hatred and will only escalate the violence in return in high-risk areas.
At the end of the day it could make the difference between the next journalist or shot down pilot having their head cut off with a pocket knife to make a U-tube video, or them being held in a private apartment and well treated and well fed for a year or two since both standards of treatment have been meted out in times past.
So-called retribution does not accomplish a lot since these people are insane anyway. More violence only makes them return more violence, and some are wrongly detained. What about all those innocent American Japanese people yanked from their homes in WW II? |
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---obewan on 8/31/09 |
Donna ... Using your logic, all those Nazis who gassed 6 million Jews were totally justified, because someone in authority had given the OK.
On the other hand, Warwick does have a point
Human confliuct does bring out some impossible moral questions |
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---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/09 |
StrongAxe is right...the CIA is an independent agency that originally operated under the supervision/direction of the National Security Council. It does not answer to the DOD. |
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---Trish9863 on 8/31/09 |
Donna66:
The Department of Defense only sets policy for use by people in that department, it does not create nor interpret laws. Those are up to Congress and the courts. If something is illegal, it remains illegal regardless of whether some bureaucrat sitting behind a desk says it's OK or not. |
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---StrongAxe on 8/31/09 |
Always On -- Those CIA members who used enhanced interrogation (now called "torture") were doing what the department of defense approved at the time. The record shows that valuable information thus obtained, allowed several attacks to be thwarted...one potentially as large in scale as 9-11.
There was only one case when an interrogator exceeded authority and he was tried and sentenced. |
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---Donna66 on 8/30/09 |
An enemy attacks for no good reason, purposefully flying loaded aeroplanes into skyscrapers, killing thousands of innocent citizens.
This is an enemy who considers you to be filth, filthy infidels, to be converted, killed or enslaved-no other choice.
This is an enemy behind the wholesale slaughter of innocents world-wide.
This is an enemy which kills countless thousands of Christians every year simply because they are Christian. It is this enemy who beheaded 2 young Indonesian girls walking home from school, because they were Christian.
But some of you are concerned that your authorities may have been too rough on suspects. What, do you think this is a video game? Take a reality pill and wake up before it is too late. |
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---Warwick on 8/30/09 |
If the CIA is suspected of breaking American and internationally agreed upon laws, what should be done?
If it is found that they have, indeed, broken such laws should this behavior be allowed to continue?
These are big "ifs", but, for those who are against investigating and/or prosecuting, if the accusations are true, I'm genuinely interested in what you believe should be done instead.
Let's discuss solutions, shall we? |
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---AlwaysOn on 8/30/09 |
Donna66:
You're right, it doesn't make sense. However, NOBODY in our government is above the law - not the CIA, not the Secret Service, not the President. This is NOT a police state. Not yet, anyway. And I hope it never becomes one. |
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---StrongAxe on 8/30/09 |
I've heard Robert Gates say we will continue rendition. Huh? We going to prosecute our OWN secret service, while sending enemies ELSWHERE to be tortured. How does this make sense? |
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---Donna66 on 8/28/09 |
StrongAxe, Amen.
I understand that beyond the treatment of detainees in interogation another worry is the treatment of American soldiers and Marines who are captured.
The issue of Ameican POW's in the hands of foreign armies or insurgents is rarely part of the discussion. The female soldier who was captured in Iraq was not raped or water boarded.
Meanwhile in wake of the stats on Bush-era release of detainees I noted in yesterday's entry it renders this question inane and beyond pathetic. You kind of wonder where did they encounter so much disinformation? Its like that survey showing over 50% of Fox News Channel viewers believe Saddam was behind 9-11. I mean how dumb can you be and still breathe? |
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---larry on 8/28/09 |
Prosecution of the CIA for crimes they may have committed is utilizing the due process of law, a key element of the American system. Note that prosecution, like all due process, allows all parties to present their perspective. (Unlike detainees at Guantanamo, who although under U.S. jurisdiction, were denied due process of law).
Contrast this to the incident in 2003, when Pat Robertson (not a liberal, but a "conservative Christian") said: "Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up like Newt Gingrich wants to do,".
Foggy Bottom is the home of the U.S. State Department. Unlike due process of law, this is more like self-righteous one-sided vigilantism. |
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---StrongAxe on 8/28/09 |
Also . . . it is wrong to cause pain to an unborn American and kill that person with whom you can *learn* how to love. So, there are ones with a "double standard", who claim to be liberal, I'd say.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/27/09
Bill, I generally stay out of Abortion debates, but in this case -
Abortions, as foul and vile as they are, are legal in this country, torture is not. |
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---NurseRobert on 8/28/09 |
Donna, Leslie...facts are stubborn.
The Bush administration released 540 detainees from Gitmo and their own report says 14% or 1 in 7 returned to anti-government or terrorist dealings.
These are the same folks who OPPOSED the democratic proposal to create a Department of Homeland Security, and OPPOSED a 911 commission until families of the fallen screamed loudly embarrassing the combat dodging Bush and Cheney.
How many detainees has the Obama administration released? That's what I thought.
For the record, I have faith in no man and am NOT an Obama apologist, but if you insist on throwing dirt instead of light please don't argue from a point of "total" ignorance. |
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---larry on 8/27/09 |
Leslie the Bible was written for man, by God, not by God for God, correct?.
Therefore it is written for us to understand. It explains things from human perspective, in the way we see and understand things.
2 Peter 3:8 demonstrates God is eternal, outside of time so 'A day is LIKE a thousand years to God, and a thousand years LIKE a day.' This obviously does not mean a day IS a thousand years, or a thousand years IS a day to God, as He doesn't live in time, at all!
We, and Peter's readers can understand this only because God had (much) previously defined what 'a day' is. It is defined in Genesis ch.1 so we can definitely know that the 6-days of creation are what we, today, call 24hr days. |
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---Warwick on 8/27/09 |
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\\
NurseRobert, Cluny - 1st NurseRobert - It is clear that you are NOT a Christian and hate God, and love the world.\\
Anytime Leslie says someone is not a Christian, that means that person is in pretty good spiritual shape. |
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---Cluny on 8/27/09 |
Leslie ... "1 day is 1 thousand years to God"
Not precise enough Leslie!
Is that 365142 days or 3365143 days?
Don't foorget the little word "as" which makes all the difference |
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---alan8566_of_uk on 8/27/09 |
NurseRobert: I guess if you are not a Christian, then I must not be one either.....gasp. I guess the Lord's blood makes exceptions for us liberals. (all sarcasm intended for Leslie.) |
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---Trish9863 on 8/27/09 |
NurseRobert, Cluny - 1st NurseRobert - It is clear that you are NOT a Christian and hate God, and love the world. The Bible says that if you love the world and hate God that you are God's enemy and will be judged in Hell. Yes, Cluny is WRONG according to the Bible. 2nd Cluny - Yes, a day like we mean it, is NOT a day to God. 1 day is 1 thousand years to God. Read your Bible and see how God sees, NOT how you or the world see. |
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---Leslie on 8/27/09 |
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In the evil world, people do not do things fair. No law can make people love. If we have innocent people in Guantanamo, "liberals" are right to want to set these people free. And if "liberals" seek to prosecute ones who have tortured prisoners . . . this is not prosecuting the CIA but the *individuals* who were involved in torturing. I can't tell you that *all* CIA people were in on torture or would approve. *Individuals* are making such choices. This is what people of this evil world do, sin is not fair.
Also . . . it is wrong to cause pain to an unborn American and kill that person with whom you can *learn* how to love. So, there are ones with a "double standard", who claim to be liberal, I'd say. |
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---Bill_bila5659 on 8/27/09 |
\\Cluny - You are misquoting the Bible. The verses you used talk about liberals as being worldly (against the Word of God). They only go with the world, NOT with God.
---Leslie on 8/26/09\\
So, Leslie, when the Bible says "liberal," it doesn't mean "liberal" like we mean it today?
Does that mean that when the Bible says "day" in Genesis 1 it doesn't mean "day" like we mean it today? |
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---Cluny on 8/26/09 |
Cluny - You are misquoting the Bible. The verses you used talk about liberals as being worldly (against the Word of God). They only go with the world, NOT with God.
---Leslie on 8/26/09
No, actually he didnt. You on the other hand, being a right wingnut seem to think that liberals (gasp!!! that dreaded word!!!) are the bain of all existance.
If you want a political debate, post your own tread and we can have a go... |
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---NurseRobert on 8/26/09 |
Why is it when "conservatives" are investigated for breaking the law and moral decadence its a liberal plot to take over the world?? |
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---NurseRobert on 8/26/09 |
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Cluny - You are misquoting the Bible. The verses you used talk about liberals as being worldly (against the Word of God). They only go with the world, NOT with God. |
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---Leslie on 8/26/09 |
Let see...
The current one
Vietnam
Korea
Spend some time researching, Wayne, you will find it. |
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---NurseRobert on 8/26/09 |
Why is it that when other countries use torture on our soldiers we scream murder, but we have no qualms about torturing others?
............
Robert what war are you talking about, and who did the screaming? The only ones I've heard about is the liberals here in this country screaming about being too harsh on the terriosts. |
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---wayne on 8/26/09 |
\\ We are Americans and we are suppose to be above this.
---NurseRobert on 8/26/09\\
Well said!
\\ Liberals are doing this, because they are NOT God's, but belong to the devil.\\
Not according to the Bible:
Isaiah 32:5
The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
Isaiah 32:8
But the liberal deviseth liberal things, and by liberal things shall he stand. |
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---Cluny on 8/26/09 |
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Why is it that when other countries use torture on our soldiers we scream murder, but we have no qualms about torturing others?
We are Americans and we are suppose to be above this. |
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---NurseRobert on 8/26/09 |
if god is against those who practice injustice, then we should obey that there should be an investigation.
god does not play favorites whether you are a liberal or conservative, democrat or a republican, left or right. nobody is above the law. |
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---mike on 8/25/09 |
I agree with Leslie on this. I agree on the underlying motive of this administration. Seems to me that one of their aims is to discourage the CIA so they will be hesitant to act, and discredit the CIA so that foreign intelligence agencies will be reluctant to share sensitive information (...for fear the information they share might make the US media!)
It cripples the ability of the CIA to insure
national security. |
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---Donna66 on 8/25/09 |
Liberals are doing this, because they are NOT God's, but belong to the devil. They also want to destroy America from within, and create a socialistic one-world government that rules over every one's life completly and totally. If you don't believe me, look it up in the Bible - it's in there. |
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---Leslie on 8/25/09 |
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Somehow it doesn't seem especially cruel to me,that terrorists who have sworn (and/or accomplished) death to Americans, should be threatened with death to their own.
I think this issue is being revived to distract from the things that are causing Obama's popularity to fall. They're hoping to whip up passion about this again so people will forget their financial woes. |
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---Donna66 on 8/25/09 |
Assuming it is true, why did government agents attempt to pry information out of SUSPECTS by threatening to kill their children and/or rape their wives? Why did they stage mock murders on other suspects in violation of Geneva Convention worldwide rules?
At least in America, our people are held to a higher standard and rule of law. They did not set terrorists free, but they also do not have a blank check to abuse them like some third world terrorist who is not subject to rule of law.
So-called "liberals" recognize that two wrongs do not make a right. |
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---obewan on 8/25/09 |
I'm not sure if the law was broken or not. It seems to me that good is called evil and evil is called good.
I am thankful we've not had more attacks from the ones who have sworn an oath to kill as many Americans as possible. To paraphrase a passage in the Bible, it says in the last days good will be called evil and evil called good. I do feel less safe now because of this current administration.
Remember war is never pretty. |
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---wayne on 8/25/09 |
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