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Can You Lose Your Salvation

Can you lose your salvation?

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 ---colupy on 8/25/09
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What a funny question. When was salvation ever mine ? Can I sell it ? I have heard of salvation in Christ. I have heard of being in Christ. I have heard Him say whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother or my sister. That is good enough for me.
---Mike on 9/16/09


There are some here who want to lesson the depravity of fallen man, by suggesting that man can change his own nature, his own heart become righteous, give himself eyes to see and ear's to hear, give himself understanding of Scripture, all by his own self. All they do is bring down the standard of God's holiness to the same level as man's sinfulness. This way, he doesn't need God to be righteous, to change his heart, or for the Spirit to bring light to God's word he can do that all on his own.-mark v

Who has said that they can save themselves?
Only Jesus saves and God certainly gives man the chance to choose salvation or death. This gift is God's power over all mankind!
---miche3754 on 9/16/09


//James also said that "the devils also believe, and tremble.",

Very true, but unlike the devils, believers become born again spiritually and receive the seal of ownership, namely the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Eph. 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,...

Eph.4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
---lee on 9/16/09


That a man is a "believer" means whaT, what is it worth? Lets consider Acts 8:13: "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."
James also said that "the devils also believe, and tremble.", "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James and Isaiah speak of the same things, to the same audience, to guide those who would follow unto God.
---Nana on 9/15/09


James 4:7 James was speaking to believers not unbelievers. verses 4-6 he is teaching them that they should not be friends with the world. He also say's "but He gives more grace" God gives more grace to the His children that His grace is greater then the power of sin, the flesh, the world, and Satan (Romans 5:20. The O.T. quote (from Prov. 3:34' 1 Peter 5:5) reveals who obtains God's grace-the humble, not the proud enemies of God.

Isaiah 16-20 is speaking to a sinful nation who is not saved v. 4 suggest that. They are in great need of cleansing. If they would only follow what God told them, but they didn't. That is why He said, "I will turn My hand against you," verse 25.
---MarkV. on 9/15/09




Here is what man is taught to do (for no man is born knowing what to do):
James 4:7-8: "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded."

Isaiah 1:16-20: "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil, Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: ..."
---Nana on 9/15/09


MarkV - Totally agree that such seek to create their own righteousness, however, in doing so they not only degrade themselves but attempt to do that to those who truly are righteous in Christ.

2 Cor.10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
---lee on 9/12/09


There are some here who want to lesson the depravity of fallen man, by suggesting that man can change his own nature, his own heart become righteous, give himself eyes to see and ear's to hear, give himself understanding of Scripture, all by his own self. All they do is bring down the standard of God's holiness to the same level as man's sinfulness. This way, he doesn't need God to be righteous, to change his heart, or for the Spirit to bring light to God's word he can do that all on his own. That is why he says,
"Those ones disfellowshipped themselves from the "Body of Christ", the Church" in other words they came on their own free will made themselves righteous and can leave whenever they want.
---MarkV. on 9/12/09


Some men paint a rather wicked and whimsical picture of God to ridicule men, but it is them who are the caricature.
God was going to destroy all whom he had brought out of Egypt, Moses pleaded for them ALL just as Jesus did, "Forgive them father..." What of 'I will have mercy..."? Paul says, "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness." and he also says "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
---Nana on 9/12/09


Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?

Is salvation in our hands or in God's? Scripture tells us that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" John 6:44.

So God can chose to save whoever He wants or not save others. God is sovereign.

---lee on 9/11/09




By your fruits they will know you are mine, Jesus said.

If one displays deep and genuine love, the hallmark of Jesus, one cannot lose that ability.

"The love of most will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end will be saved," Jesus said about the end times.

Again, those who have such deep and dynamic love that an increase in cold and wicked behaviour cannot extinguish it, they cannot lose that.

Imagine those who were able to keep loving, say, through the Cambodian Killing Fields. Their love will not die.
---Jenny on 9/9/09


Off subject? I think not!
Psalm 73:27-28: "For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee. But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works."
That is my stand and my proposition, that God does not cast away and send men 'whoring', they themselves do that. and when they be shut outside like them virgins without oil, it was not the Lord which shut them out, they shut themselves out.
---Nana on 9/9/09


You are weaving Scripture verses like a spider...
---Nana on 9/8/09

So are you. We have completely lost the subject of this blog, Losing your Salvation.

I have endeavored to follow you through the rabbit trails in Wonderland but I can not longer do it.

Now you subtly accuse me of being unjust, but do not describe in what way.

Do you ever speak plainly? Is your nay a nay and your yea a yea?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/9/09


Before we judge one another. Let us find grace in our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us follow Gods commandments and believe in the testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ so that our heavenly father can love us. Are we not all children of God for those who believe in the Testimony. So let us be like children and stop attacking one another and grow in Spirit and in Truth. Let your salvation be with you and God let us not worry if we are going to heaven or going to hell. But let us live in the Lord Jesus Christ and just concentrate on that. Repent and for the remission of sins. Praise God Almighty for his word. Amen
---john_camping on 9/9/09


Mark_Eaton,
2 Thessalonians 2:11: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:". God is not unjust and neither should his people be: Isaiah 1:15_19 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." comes before "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow".

Shawn.M.T.,
You are weaving Scripture verses like a spider, and how gracious of you to offer charity with a public announcement, "... so I've forgiven Nana's accusations." I am not impressed, do you have an ear left to hear?
---Nana on 9/8/09


Nana:

You said "Those ones disfellowshipped themselves from the Body of Christ, the Church. Not wanting to hear or abide in the faith, they brought it on themselves"

This fellow did NOT remove himself from the church and that is the whole reason for the entire chapter of 1 Cor 5. Paul even says:

1 Cor 5:12 "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church".

Our assumption is that this man was a member of the church, likely a believer, willfully committing sin without confession and repentance.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/09


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--Alena:

Sister, When Rev.3:5 is read out of 'CONTEXTS', its 'INVERSE' is perceived and will seem to say a person can have their name blotted out of the Book of Life, but the inverse of the Truth is a lie.

--Nana:

Among the 'Wheat' of the Church are the lost 'Tares'(fornicators) who were never Saved, but so that they may be Saved in the day of the Lord : "Let him BE UNTO THEE 'AS' a heathen man", which require binding on earth & it shall be bound in Heaven(Matt.18:17-18).

Brother, The Lord nor I failed to notice Matt.25 or Mark 9, when we shared Matt.12:31-32 "All manner of sin & blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men : And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven".
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/5/09


Mark_Eaton,
Those ones disfellowshipped themselves from the "Body of Christ", the Church. Not wanting to hear or abide in the faith, they brought it on themselves. Please see 1 Cor. 5:11 and Matthew 18:17. Will the spirit of a heathen or publican, "be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"? Perhaps,if they were ignorant, John 15:22-24.

Shawn.M.T.,
"..., all manner of sin against the Son of man, shall be forgiven unto men!!" Quite ignorant of you, failing to take notice of Matthew 25:30-46 and Mark 9:42-50. Man is not justified in his sin and some think they have entered into life but have not.
I wish people stop trying to be the cookie cutter, when in reality, they are just a cookie.
---Nana on 9/4/09


YES, a person CAN loose their salvation. The Bible says a person can have their name blotted out of the Book of life. Also, the Word says that only those that do the WILL OF GOD will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The Word says without holiness, NO MAN will see the Lord. So if we receive Christ but don't strive to live righteously, I don't think we're going to Heaven. I believe the "once saved always saved" doctrine is a huge deception. If a person thinks they can't do anything to loose their salvation, they may feel that unrighteousness in their life is forgiven, when in fact it isn't if it's unrepented of. Heaven is another plane. What we do here, we will do in the next plane. If we sin here, we won't go to Heaven.
---Alena on 9/5/09


Nana:

1 Tim 1:19-20 is a very similar passage to 1 Cor 5 when Paul hands these ones over to Satan. But do either of these verses say anything about their spirits?

I see Paul using turning them over to Satan as a punishment or tool to teach these ones. It does not say that they are damned or that they are forever turned over to Satan.

Based upon the Book of Job, I believe that Satan can operate in the realm of our physical bodies, can torture us with sickness and illness, can torture our minds, but cannot operate on our spirits. All this is possible even after we have been saved.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/4/09


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--Nana:**No, it does not. The verse says "may be", not "will be"---Nana on 9/3/09**

Nana, The word you're looking to use to make your point, in your above accusation, is "Maybe" not "May Be" as stated in 1Cor.5:5. These are two different word, with two different meaning.....and also in your hast to prove YOURSELF right, you're sharing the use of the word out of the context from which it is used.

1Cor.5:5 states "SO THAT HIS SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE Lord Jesus"......It does not state 'So that MAYBE his spirit is saved in the day of the Lord'

Brother, We're all here to share the Spirit of Truth. So I hope you're not intentionally making misleading statements!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/4/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

**1Cor.8:12--Shawn.M.T. 9/2/09** this typo was to be typed 1Cor.6:12.

The recommendation of 1Cor.5 was a Holy remedy but for the "Puffed Up" knowledge of Nana's cheeks.

Nana recognized this 'typo', but instead of addressing the issue of 1Cor.6:12 clearly proving & solidifying what Mark E. shared with Leslie about 'No Condemnation', he's steered his efforts into making the void accusation that 1Cor.8:12 testify against me & 'The Security of Not Losing Salvation'.

While "sin against Brethren, is sin against Christ", all manner of sin against the Son of man, shall be forgiven unto men!! Charity Edefieth(1Cor.8:1), so I've forgiven Nana's accusations. Peace
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/3/09


"But does not 1 Cor 5 say the opposite of what you believe? If you can lose your salvation what then does this verse say?"
Mark_Eaton on 9/3/09

No, it does not. The verse says "may be", not "will be". "What it is to be delivered to Satan the Lord himself declares when he says, Let him be unto thee as a heathen and publican, Mt 18:17.", Geneva Study Bible.

You that believe in such as "faith alone", what do you make of 1 Timothy 1:19-20?

All the promises we avail to ourselves will come to naught when the Lord comes and catches us with our hands in the cookie jar, Mark 13:31-37.
---Nana on 9/3/09


Nana:

But does not 1 Cor 5 say the opposite of what you believe? If you can lose your salvation what then does this verse say?

1 Cor 5:5 "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

We know this man sinned, willingly sinned. If he is deliverd to Satan but YET his spirit is still SAVED on the day of Christ, does that not say that he did NOT lose his salvation?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/3/09


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"Nana should have continued to share with us 1Cor.8:12 ~"
Indeed! Your error testifies against you:

1 Corinthians 8:12: "But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ."

What Nana will recommend is 1 Corinthians 5, Holy remedy for "puffed up" cheeks.
---Nana on 9/2/09


Hebrews5:8,9Though he were a son yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered.And being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.John8:11,34She-,no man,Lord,and Jesus said unto her,neither do I condenm thee,go and sin no more.Jesus answered them,Verily,Verily,I say unto you,Whosoever committh sin is the servant of sin. Romans6:1,2,12What shall we say then? shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid how shall we,who are dead to sin,live any longer therein. Romans 6:6,that our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed,that henceforth we should not serve sin. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
---Darlene_1 on 9/2/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

It's not immediately apparent, only because it wasn't his intentions but 1Cor.6:8-11 that Nana shared on 9/1/09 is only proving & solidifying what Mark E. shared with Leslie on 8/31/09 about 'No Condemnation'

Nana should have continued to share with us 1Cor.8:12 ~

~ All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient(helpful): all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

We in Christ have been set free from the law of sin & death : freed from sin which equals 'loss of salvation' because we're Washed, Sanctified & Justified with a renewed heart to repent when found in sin and is why we shall not be brought under its power to condemn.
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/2/09


NO... If one is saved ie. salvation, one is saved. If one can lose what is freely given (UNCONDITIONALLY) ONE WAS never GIVEN the gift of God. Thus Christ NEVER "really" redeemed them. Why? coz it aint finished and Jesus lied. For those whom are the redeemed "IT IS FINISHED" AND ALL OF THEM BELIEVE GOD as Abraham belived God and it was counted to him righousness as the gospel is revealed "for therein is the righteousness of God revealed"
IF one does not know (and 99.9% of religous people professing the name of Christ)THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THAT IS REVEALED IN THE GOSPEL
---steven-rem7000 on 9/2/09


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A terminally ill man(50 years of age with lung cancer) is hung up on his past behavior and for this reason he says he cannot be saved. I canceled with his wife yesterday. Here is this man's problem as described in second Thessalonians 2:10,
"10-And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
If a person refuses to believe that they might be saved perhaps their belief keeps them from being saved.
---mima on 9/2/09


Nana:

First, the remainder of Rom. 8:1 says "no condemnation to those IN Christ Jesus.

Secondly, you and Anne must be best friends on this subject. She sees the same things in these verse that you do, however I see something different.

In the 1 Cor 6 passage that you used, there is a reverse of direction that results in a change of the subject. If occurs in verse 11 where it says "but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

He is describing those IN Christ Jesus. If I am justified, which means I can stand before God and be declared not guilty (in the law of sin and death), where is the condemnation?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/2/09


As has been mentioned, there are many verses to say nothing can separate us from the love of God.
I believe some of the thinking about losing one's salvation comes from mankind thinking that they are the center of the universe, or in this case the center of God/man relationships. God is the center and all comes from God, from Whom are all things. If people focus on God and His character, it's makes a lot more sense that mankind cannot change what God started.
---Rod on 9/1/09


Hi, Colupy . . . thanks for telling us your "real name" (o: There are scriptures warning me that I do not have assurance of salvation if I keep sinning, "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:19) We need strong warnings, don't we . . . to make sure we don't turn from God and do not take away from "the words of the book of this prophecy"?

But > "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) We are called up to this (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/1/09


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"Verse 1, "no condemnation". ... I will tell you, nothing can condemn us. No thing, not one, nothing. No sin, no deed, ... can condemn me
Mark_Eaton,

1 Corinthians, chapter 6:8-11

"Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
---Nana on 9/1/09


Leslie, your living in the Old Testament. You have not proclaim Christ as your Savior because if you had you would be under the Covenant of Grace, or the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant no one could be save obeying the law, if they broke one, they broke them all and no one could keep them all. No salvation under the Old Covenant. Salvation is through grace. Even in the Old Testament people were saved by grace through faith. under the New Covenant new promises are given that were not included in the Covenant of works of the law. This Covenant is a better Covenant in that God puts His Spirit in your heart, and puts His fear in you so that you will not depart from Him. He will cause you to walk in His statues. Altogether different.
---MarkV. on 9/1/09


Leslie:

Where are your Scriptures? I have given you Scriptures every post to you, yet you have never given me one.

Convince me of your position. Show me in Scripture where you "lose" your salvation.

My best guess is your proof will be Heb. chapters 8 and 10. Many also use these passages. Heb. 10 is one of the most difficult passages to understand and interpret in the Bible, yet many base their whole doctrine on them.

You have disregarded Romans 8, let me leave you with this:

John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day".
---Mark_Eaton on 9/1/09


MarkV., Mark Eaton - You both are MISQUOTING scripture. 1st MarkV. - The N.T. was added onto the O.T., NOT cancelling out the O.T. God and His Word are the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER -they do NOT change. The O.T. is still applicable today. God did NOT change His mind. If you think so, you claim to be God (idolitry), and are in DISOBEDIENCE to God. 2nd Mark Eaton - God does NOT condemn us, however we are still REQUIRED by God to OBEY His Commands (laws). Jesus NEVER did away with the law, but fulfilled it. The law is still applicable today - God did NOT change His mind on this. If not you are in DISOBEDIENCE to God. The law brings death to self, so Christ can be alive in you. This does NOT refer to losing salvation.
---Leslie on 9/1/09


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Leslie:

Have you ever read Romans 8:1-2?

I used verses 38-39 of Romans 8, but verses 1 and 2 are all I really need.

Verse 1, "no condemnation". What does that mean to believers? I will tell you, nothing can condemn us. No thing, not one, nothing. No sin, no deed, nothing. How can I lose my salvation if nothing can condemn me?

Verse two goes even further and says we have been set free from the law of sin and death. What does that mean to believers? If the law of sin=death is broken, then sin='loss of salvation' is also broken, because sin='loss of salvation'=death has been broken for the believer.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/31/09


15 years after being saved I considered this question.""Why does God let us live after being saved?"
For you to be a light to the world and bear much fruit, it it be that you abide in Him," and I came to the realization that I was doing nothing!!! I also asked myself what is meant by "bear much fruit" what fruit I asked myself.
After much prayer and study the Lord revealed to me that fruit means souls led to the Lord, and at that time I started on my witnessing ministry. I encourage every person who understands that they truly belong to God to engage in Soulwinning!!!
---mima on 8/31/09


"Why does God let us live after being saved?"
For you to be a light to the world and bear much fruit, it it be that you abide in Him,

John 15:4: "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
---Nana on 8/30/09


No.

The Bible says God disciplines who He loves. If one is not disciplined for straying, rebelling, or sinning, then he or she must not be His. The discipline process may take some time. That time element is God's business.

Nobody knows who is or isn't saved, so it is somewhat a mute point.

If someone is personally concerned or worried about it, they need to repent and get right with God, but are probably growing in Christ.

God will finish what He started.

If one thinks they are saved because of some prayer, but they are not concerned about Christ, they are in great danger.
---Rod on 8/30/09


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Why does God let us live after being saved? Would it not be better for God and us if we died at moment of salvation then for us to live and latter loose our salvation? And according to scripture, if it were possible to loose our salvation there is no way to ever be saved again. Why not believe that if God is able to save us He is able to keep us. We did not save ourselves neither can we keep oursilves saved. Our salvation is a GIFT of God, not something we work to keep.
---Pastor_Herb on 8/30/09


Leslie, i don't know what point you were trying to make when you said, "MarkV., Mark Eaton - 1st MarkV. - The New Covenant is added to the Old Covenant, NOT as a replacement, but as an addition and fulfillment (O.T. concealed, N.T. revealed). In other words, the N.T. does NOT void out the O.T." Old Testament is alway there and the New Testament is also there. You must be taking about Covenants. The Old Covenant could not save anyone, for no one could keep the whole law. The New One does, through Jesus Christ works. The New Covenant is called the Covenant of Grace, but people have been saved by grace all through history. So grace is not new, what is new in the New Covenant, is what God promises under the New Covenant.
---MarkV. on 8/30/09


My real name is Colleen, colupy is just a nickname that's I've had for a long time. I thank everyone for all the responses, but I still have to ask what would blotting your name out of the book of life mean? Does your name enter the book of life when you accept salvation & if it does then why would it be blotted out?

I do believe if you are a true follower of Jesus you will not want to depart.So the way I take it would mean that the ones that say they are sorry for their sins and then turn away have not true repentance. Only those to the end will be truly saved.
---colupy on 8/29/09


MarkV., Mark Eaton - 1st MarkV. - The New Covenant is added to the Old Covenant, NOT as a replacement, but as an addition and fulfillment (O.T. concealed, N.T. revealed). In other words, the N.T. does NOT void out the O.T. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER - He does NOT change. Jesus NEVER changed His mind on what is in the O.T. - it still applies TODAY. 2nd Mark Eaton - God's love is DIFFERENT from God's salvation. Yes, we can NOT be separated from God's love, but we can be separated from God Himself.
---Leslie on 8/29/09


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Mima, my point exactly. How can a God be sovereign if He is losing people left and right? It would also suggest the devil is beating Him all over the place. I know my God is in control of all things. And no one is beating Him at anything. Plus He is never going to lose anyone whom He has saved already.
The view of losing salvation comes because of the concept of 'free will' if they use their free will to be saved, they can use their free will to leave. And God has no rights to their actions. That is why it is a false concept. Man is a free agent, but he cannot originate the love of God in his heart. He cannot believe in someone he hates. He needs a new heart, eyes to see and ears to hear and the Spirit to reveal the word of God to him.
---MarkV. on 8/29/09


Good point, Pastor Herb...>>> Jesus said I NEVER KNEW YOU. Jusus could not say that if you were saved at one time and then lost your salvation. Can He?<<<
---Pastor_Herb on 8/28/09
Some people have a lot of trouble accepting the idea of Grace.
---Donna66 on 8/28/09


"INEVERKNEWYOU"
Romans 11:2: "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."
Romans 8:29: " whom he did foreknow, "

John 6:70 "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
John 13:38 ", till thou hast denied me thrice."

Those disavowed of the advocacy of Christ are those who "work iniquity". If what a man do and will do cast in stone, why these:
"abide in me", "flee fornication", "Lie not one to another, ", "warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus".

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, ten ways to void God's warranty.
---Nana on 8/29/09


In order to answer this question, we must look a several things:

1. What does eternal life mean? Joh3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. If you can loose it then it is not ETERNAL LIFE.

2. What does everlasting life mean?
Joh3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Again, if you can loose it, it is not EVERLASTING is it?

3. Mt7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Lets look at this verse. Jesus said I NEVER KNEW YOU. Jusus could no say that if you were saved at one time and then lost your salvation. Can He?
---Pastor_Herb on 8/28/09


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#1
Trey,

You have wrongly used several verses.

"All that the father giveth me..." --If you are disobedient, or turn away from God and do the lusts of this world, do you think God will still bring you to his son? Is that justice?

"and him that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out." -- obviously, if you turn away from God then you're not coming to God but moving away from Him, so there's no need for Him to cast you out because you cast yourself out.
(continued)
---manny on 8/28/09


Leslie:

If you can lose your salvation, what do you make of these verses:

Rom 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Aren't you saying that there IS something that can separate you from the love of God, and that something is YOU?
---Mark_Eaton on 8/28/09


Apostle Paul:
Ro8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
-Are we stronger than God?

Ro8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

---trey on 8/27/09

Paul also write in the same book Chapter 11,20-22 "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity, but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
---Ruben on 8/28/09


Anyone who doesnt believe in eternal security has no faith or love in their God. The person who thinks their first love will deny them has no faith or love to begin with. OSAS is faith in our Master, Jesus Christ.
---duane on 8/28/09


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When a person denies eternal security that person denies the sovereignty of God!!! It is God who saves,(salvation is a gift of God)) and it is God who does the holding,(no man can snatch you out of my hands). If your God is not a God of eternal security how can your God be sovereign?
---mima on 8/28/09


Well, if you love your child, and your child starts to do what he or she jolly well pleases > do you say, oh you have a free will and I love you so I'm going to let you make your choice? But if a child is not your child, *that* one free from you has free will (o:

And yet, ones claim God loves His kiddos by letting them do what they choose.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 John 2:19)

But we do have things like Revelation 2:4-5 about ones who have left their first love, what can happen to them.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/28/09


Yes you can. Once saved always saved Is False teaching.
Eternal security is only secure when you stay with God from the time your born again till your # is called or the rapture.
If you fall out then God's Salvation security is void, later aft how ever long you return to God, then God's Salvation will be restored.
Ministers teaching God's eternal security is with you no matter what, if your out of Church for a number of yr's be in deep sin, serving the god of this world etc, this Is also False teachings.
The word backslider is in the Old-Testament,
it still refers to people today. In Rev., if your name isn't written in the Lambs Book of Life You can lose out with God, encluding backsliding.
---Lawrence on 8/28/09


MarkV, can I just say AMEN! Thanks for the scriptures.

To those who oppose OSAS.

Christ said:
Joh6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Apostle Paul:
Ro8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
-Are we stronger than God?

Ro8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Please note that Paul wrote "Who" shall separate us. Again, "Are we are not more powerful than God?" No,thank God! We cannot undo the finished work of Christ! If we could then his blood shed was for naught.
---trey on 8/27/09


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It just so happens that this exact question popped into my mind the other day, and I am in the process of studying it now. Colupy, I'm in the same boat you're in: I want to say that you can't lose your salvation, but there are some Bible verses that raise some questions that I need to sort through. For example, Hebrews 6 is an interesting passage that seems to suggest that losing salvation is possible, although the passage might be interpreted in another way. My question to those who'd say 'yes' is: What exactly do you have to do to lose your salvation? What about those who say that ex-Christians were never really Christians in the first place (aka 'false converts')?
---Bobby3 on 8/27/09


Leslie, don't you hear God? What is it about when God speaks that you don't understand? He said, "I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me" "Will not" Leslie, and you are saying God is wrong and that they do depart because of their free will. In other words what you are saying is that God is speaking falsehood, and trying to deceive us, because you see it happening all the time and you are right and He is wrong.
If they depart they were never endwelled by the Holy Spirit who puts fear in their hearts not to depart. I believe this is simple English and should be believed by every genuine believer.
---MarkV. on 8/27/09


Leslie, you are not reading the New Covenant promises. You are just putting down what you think is under the New Covenant. Now go and check what the New Covenant is and if you believe in the Word of God you will understand. If you don't understand it then I cannot help you. Only God can. I can direct to drink out of the foundain but cannot make you drink from it.
I don't know if God wants you to drink from it right this minute or not, if He does He will get you to drink from it some way, some how. I do not have that power. I can only say, "here is living water" I have done what Jesus said for us to do, if you are thirsty I should give you water. But you are either not thirsty or refuse to drink it.
---MarkV. on 8/27/09


MarkV - You are WRONG and AGAINST the Bible. How many times does it need to be said in the Bible for it to be TRUTH - 1 time is ALL it takes. Under the New Covenant, we are covered by Christ's blood, however, Christ's blood can be ERASED by our choice to NOT follow Him and His Word. When we do NOT follow Christ and His Word, we are telling the devil to take control over our lives, thus we void out God's control. By you saying what you said, you are claiming to be God and say that you know better than God (idolitry).
---Leslie on 8/27/09


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Leslie, how can you say from reading one passage, a passage that is not even an explicit statement but an implicit one, that a person can lose salvation?
The New Covenant promise speaks against what you have stated. And if you are saying that the promises under the New Covenant are wrong, then we might as well throw the whole Covenant on a passage in Rev. that is interpreted wrong. It has to be wrong for the New Covenant was spoken by God not John or Paul or anyone else. " And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good, but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me."
---MarkV. on 8/27/09


Nana, thanks. You know how those of us in the front lines of this war are. "Indeed the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent ravage it. My God, my God, how onto me utterly ravaged. For human is born onto maltreatment, and of sons the sparks abound flying off. But he that formed the eye, will he not see? Many the wrongs upon the righteous, though out of them all YHWH saves that one. If God for us, who against us? for whoever touches you, touches the eyeball of his eye. And I will bless them that bless you, and curse them that curse you. For vengeance is mine, says YHWH, and I will repay to each according to the works of them."
---Eloy on 8/27/09


Hi, Colupy . . . (o: does your name have a meaning, is it your real name (o:

I believe God knows who will go all the way. So, such a person can not lose one's salvation. However, even if I am one of these people, still those warnings apply to me, in practical everyday life > it's like if you are a kid in the back seat of your car, and Mommy says not to put your hand out the window or it could get taken off > well, she also has that switch for making sure you don't open the window (o:

Part of how this works is "God resists the proud" (James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5) > we have the safety net of God's resistance, for whenever Satan starts taking us in our ego where he would take us.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/27/09


The Spirit in Rev 1-6 is like a teacher writing a report card to the parents of a set of tripplets. Of the three, only one is reported as a "good student", the other two need remedial work to bring them in line with the school program. It is that simple except for the bias thinkers who with colored glasses always insist on reading into Scripture what is there not, such as predestination.
---Nana on 8/26/09


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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

According to the Bible in Rev.3:4-5, the names of those who are worthy will not be blotted out of the Book of Life but shall be confess before our Heavenly Father.

When this is shared in the Spirit which it was written, it's Truth is revealed as a reassurance of God's Promise to these Sardians, whose Hearts were worthy, not to worry about losing their Salvation.

Rev.3:4-5 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Never presume that the True Intent of a passage can be found by the use of its inverse!
---Shawn.M.T on 8/26/09


Salvation is a free gift of God. We do nothing to merit it and our human efforts are not sufficient to maintain it. God is not an "indian giver" (pardon a "politically incorrect" expression -- I don't know an equivalent expression).God doesn't change His mind.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

I can't help but believe that IF salvation can be lost, it is lost only by the will of one to whom it has been given.
---Donna66 on 8/26/09


1 salvation is based on the finished work of jesus christ on the cross.
2 it is a gift of god not of works
Eth 2:8-9
3 read the parable of the sower( a true chistian brings fruits of faith)
4you cannot finish something you recieved by faith by doing good works to keep it or it would not be a gift.
5many are called but few are chosen and if you die rejecting gods gift of christ your name will be blotted out
6 corinthian 13 states all christians works will be tried by fire some too fine gold, others to wood hay and stubble(loss of rewards)
---jerry on 8/26/09


I had more to my ? but they did not post it. I tend to believe that you can not lose your salvation but there are a few passages in the bible that I wonder about & that is backsliding and having your name blotted out of the book of life. For the ones that believe that you can not lose your salvation I would be interested in your opinion on these and other difficult passages in the bible.
---colupy on 8/26/09


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According to the Bible, you CAN lose your salvation. Revelation 3:5 - how can your name be blotted out of the Book of Life, unless it were there to begin with. Once saved, always saved is FALSE doctrine.
---Leslie on 8/26/09


way to go Bill.

These type of discussions lead to "foolish controversies" (Titus 3:9-11).

One never knows if someone else is saved or not, so she/he won't know if that person lost something they may never have had in the first place.

If someone is not following Christ, but they claim salvation based on a "can't lose salvation belief," they are certainly on very dangerous ground. God looks on the heart.
---Rod on 8/26/09


Colupy (o: interesting name . . . we have plenty of arguing about this. One thing > if it is what you can lose . . . it isn't safe. I'd say trust God to change us so we are in His control and care so we can not turn from Him, then don't take for granted. Hebrews 12:14 says that "without" holiness, "no one will see the Lord." So, trust yourself to God, so you are no longer free from Him, then trust Him to make sure you are holy the way *He* means by holy. He always can correct us better than we can hope, and can straighten out others better than we can straighten people out or even hope to (o: So, you see how much we need to trust and depend on Him, and be busy with *this* rather than arguing beliefs so much.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/26/09


NO, there is no gift of free-will anywhere in Scripture. People have freedom to chose, but whatever they chose is because there was a desire of some kind so the will was not free. Whenever a will is free, it will not chose one way or another. It has to have a desire to choose and if it has a desire then it is no longer free. In fact the Bible says that the will is in bondage to sin, and wants to do "the will" of their father the devil.
Free will is a lie to give man the advantage over God. A false concept to strip the glory away from God and dispose it to man.
---MarkV. on 8/26/09


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Hi Eloy, glad to see you posting.
---Nana on 8/25/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Our Father's Will is that of all which He has given Christ, He should Lose Nothing but should raise it up again at the Last Day. John 6:39-40

The only equivalent of 'Losing Your Salvation' is to lose out on that which you never acquired!! So, Yes! You can lose your Salvation, by never Seeing & Believe on the Son of God.

Moreover who shall separate God's Elect from the Love of Christ, who is at the Right Hand of God making intercession for the short comings of our flesh. Neither tribulation, persecution or principalities of things present nor to come, shall be able to separate us from God's Love in Christ because whom God did Predestinate, He also Called, Justified & Glorified. Rom.8:30-39
---Shawn.M.T on 8/26/09


Yes indeed. You can use your gift of freewill or freedom of choice to either obey and continue on with Jesus Christ the whole way up to glory, or else you can use your gift of freewill or freedom of choice to disobey and leave Jesus to fall from his grace and backslide into sin and be separated to condemnation.
---Eloy on 8/25/09


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