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Raptured People Not Dead

Hebrews 9:27 says it is appointed to man once to die, and yet at the rapture people alive will be caught up in the air. Do they not die?

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 ---Geraldine on 8/26/09
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No, they will be the only ones who will escape physical death....Note: Look for other scriptures on this.
---catherine on 9/21/09


Those who are caught up in the rapture do not die as we think of dieing but rather are changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortal to immortal bodies, from the present physical body to a glorified body.
---mima on 9/21/09


larry: "The bible says prophets are raised in our midst to speak so we can harken."

They are everywhere. Seek them and you shall find them. They are the godly ones who don't conform to denominational "church" doctrines. Christians today do not recognize prophets as they will not recognize the two prophets mentioned in Revelation. Many christians mock these prophets because they don't conform to what they are taught in their denominations - having their own traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Christians today ae following the same path as the Jews during Jesus' time.
---Steveng on 9/18/09


Steveng- since these prophets live by the word and therefore fellowship with the saints where can they be found?

Where can their prophecy be read or heard since prophecy, if genuine, is for edificaton of the saints and a warning to mankind?

Do they live lives of praise?

The bible says prophets are raised in our midst to speak so we can harken. Can you tell me anything about the congregation (midst) of these said prophets?

God bless.
---larry on 9/17/09


larry: "Prophets in Portland-what the heck is that?"

Portland, Oregon - a city in the USA. I've traveled extensively throughout North America over the past thirty years and have crossed paths with dozens of prophets of God. They are not affiliated with any manmade denominational "churches" because they don't conform to any of their doctrines - their traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. And denominational "churches" shun them because of the same reasons. They live by God's word only and are not infected by man's philosophies and their wrong and shallow answers based upon man's thoughts and ideas. These reasons are the same when christians shun and mock the prophets in Revelation.
---Steveng on 9/17/09




To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

It's appointed unto men 'Once To Die'....and we all will or have already because all who have been baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death & have the Sealed of the Living God's Holy Spirit.

Therefore though we are still living in this world, we are buried with Christ by baptism into death : that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in Newness of Life. If we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection : caught up together with those who sleep in Christ. 1Thes.4:15-18, Rom.6:3-5
---Shawn.M.T on 9/17/09


Mark E. You are right to rebuke, and then not to participate in "...foolish controversies ...and strife and disputes...for they are unprofitable and worthless. Reject a factious man after a first and second warning... (Titus 3:9-11).
---Rod4Him on 9/16/09


Christ is taking those alive with him to the third heaven, a lightning quick physical transformation into the celestial bodies for eternity.

Apostles and Prophets..
Anytime you are in the Portland Oregon area, you'll find a few on the street corners within several blocks from Pioneer Square.
---Steveng on 9/4/09

Prophets in Portland-what the heck is that? No wonder Mark Eaton is confused, so am I.
---larry on 9/16/09


Hi Mark, well the way he describes it in 1 Thessalonians, with the trumpet call and everything, sounds to me like the day of the Lord, not a secret rapture. :)
---Mary on 9/16/09


Concerning the rapture:

1 Thes 4:13-18 can be taken as pretrib, mid trib or post trib. But since Jesus return at the last trump (read Revelation), it will be at the end of the tribulation when the dead and the living in Christ are caught up together who are favored by God to enter the new heaven (this is the first resurrection). Those who are left living on earth enter the new earth where Christ reigns for a thousand years. At the end of a thousand years, all the other dead shall rise (which is the second resurrection) and be judged from the Book of Life, according to their works.

Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 9/16/09




There is no rapture
---Rhonda on 9/15/09

If there is no rapture, then what event is the passage in 1 Thes 4:13-18 describing?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/16/09


There is no rapture

There IS A RESURRECTION as described in 1Corin 15 where the dead in Christ are RESURRECTED to eternal life

the resurrection does not happen until the LAST TRUMP - Christ returns ONLY once on the last day of tribulation

1Corin 15:23,51-53 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming ... we shall all be changed ...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed ...and this mortal must put on immortality.

John 6:44, 39,40,54 & 11:24
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
---Rhonda on 9/15/09


StevenG:

I will say this once and be done with you.

All you do is accuse other believers of being deaf, dumb, and blind to the truth of God's word. You constantly post about the second resurrection like it is magical and can save them. You post about apostles and prophets as if they hear something from God that no one else hears. All this is false teaching.

You need to include yourself in such statements about believers. Do not consider yourself "above" such things and that you have "special" insight into God's will and Scripture.

If you are a "true" believer you should be assisting other brothers and sisters instead of accusing them.

Compare your actions to Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/09


Steven G, you are arguing against Scripture. You are saying it is not true that what you say is truth. Are you the Truth? Scripture also say, "There are many devices in a man's heart, nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand" the wisdom and power of God being alike infinite, the accomplishment of whatever he has purposed is absolutely guaranteed." it is impossible for the Divine to fail in any of His executions.
Are you saying this are lies too? If you are, you better stay away from all churches, because it is people that think and believe like you who bring into the church new false idea's.
---MarkV. on 9/15/09


Mark_Eaton: "You have been so consumed trying to defend your prophets and apostles you have been deceived."

You assume much. I'm consumed by doing the will of the Father - not what they teach in denominational churches - teaching their own traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.

Mark_Eaton: "How can your prophets and apostles be doing this if they are not connected to the body of Christ?"

Again, you assume much. How do you know if these prophets and apostles are not connected to the body of Christ if you have not met any? Besides, they are not MY prophets and apostles, they are God's.
---Steveng on 9/14/09


StevenG:

The Disciples asked Jesus in Matt 24 what would be the signs of the His coming and of the end of the age. What did He tell them?

First, let no one deceive you.

Second, many will come in my name and will deceive many.

You have been so consumed trying to defend your prophets and apostles you have been deceived.

You have neglected to see what God's purpose was in giving such gifts. In trying to convince us of their authenticity you forgot God's purpose was:

Eph 4:12 "for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ"

How can your prophets and apostles be doing this if they are not connected to the body of Christ?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/13/09


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MarkV: "Is there genuine Christians following a wrong road? Who are this people?"

Every christian thinks he or she is a genuine christian, even the christians who say "Lord, Lord..."

MarkV: "You say God is trying hard..."

You can lead a person face-to-face with Jesus, but you can't make him believe. God is trying hard, but no one is listening. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but it's the humans that are rejecting Him. Christians today are traveling the same raods as the Jews during the time Jesus was on earth. Most christians today wouldn't recognize Jesus if He were standing in front of them.
---Steveng on 9/12/09


Steven G, I don't know if you noticed that genuine Christians born of the Spirit are on the right road. You keep saying they are on the wrong road. Is there genuine Christians following a wrong road? Who are this people?

You say God is trying hard to bring them to the right road. He must not be Almighty God. If He is trying and they are not following He must need help from the genuine Christians who are on the wrong road.
I suppose the Word of God is wrong about God for it says, "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, (get this) and none can stay His hand"
---MarkV. on 9/12/09


Mark_Eaton: "The offices of apostle and prophet are no longer needed. "

You are surely one christian who will mock the two prophets mentioned in Revelation. You are not alone, though, because most christians think the way you do. These two prophets don't conform to denominational doctrines thus christians don't listen.

Prophets and apostles are needed more now than anytime in the past because christians today have taken a detour off the road to the Kingdom of God. Prophets and apostles have a direct communication line to God. God is trying to communicate to the christians through these prophets and apostles to edify the church to bring them back on the road.
---Steveng on 9/11/09


Steveng:

Its funny how you communicate. You call me a hypocrite by first telling me what I believe and then calling me a hypocrite because of it. But, you never asked me what I do believe.

Let me tell you what I believe and then you can call me whatever you like.

I believe the office of apostle and the gift of apostle are DIFFERENT.

I have challenged you repeatedly to show me where the OFFICE of apostle has continued since the first church. I do not see that is has. I believe the same is true for prophets. The offices of apostle and prophet are no longer needed.

Eph 4:11 talks about the gifts.

If we talk about people with gifts instead of people with titles, I would agree with you.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/10/09


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Mark_Eaton, today's christians pick and choose what they want to believe. Most christians believe in the nine commandments, but not the fourth commandment - to remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy. (the Sabbath as in Saturday). This also holds true for Ephesians 4:11. You believe that today we have evangelists, pastors and teachers, but deny apostles and prophets. You are such a hypocrite.

1 Corinthians 12:28
1 Corinthians 14:29
Ephesians 2:20 (if there is a cornerstone, then there must be something built upon it later)
1 John 4:1
Revelation 11:10
Revelation 11:18
Revelation 22:6 (reveal what is SHORTLY will come to pass)
---Steveng on 9/9/09


in verses 25- 28 it has to do with Jesus sacrificing himself only once, and not again. in the same way that a man dies only once, as he did.

it doesn't mean that everyone is appointed to die.
it just means that everyone is appointed to die once.

in the rapture people alive when it happens don't need to die in order to get to heaven because those who had died come to get their bodies and all believers receive glorified bodies like Jesus has.
---JaeR on 9/8/09


So, you don't believe the last two prophets mentioned in Revelation.
---Steveng on 9/8/09

I DO NOT.

They are not called prophets, they are called witnesses and the word in Greek is martus or martyr. They are not prophets speaking prophecies but witnesses in the legal sense of the word, testifying to God's sovereignty and plan outlined in His word.

You have changed the word to enhance your support for current day prophets and apostles. You have added and subtracted from the word of God.

You should look inside your heart to the motivations that have led you to do so.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/8/09


MarkV: "...just because they didn't want to give you a place to sleep when you were on tour."

Do you twist what is written in the bible like you twist what I write? I didn't have any problems finding a place to stay for several days at a time with a christian family when I was hitchhiking ("on tour") around North America in the late 1970s. .

MarkV: "Now you suggest you know who the true prophets are without them speaking a word."

Any strong christian can.

"Scripture is close. Everything we need to know is written already in Scripture. No more new revelations."

So, you don't believe the last two prophets mentioned in Revelation.
---Steveng on 9/8/09


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Steven G, I answer you because you of all people suggest for everyone to leave the Churches. They are bad. That by following your example, people can learn about God, all they have to do is follow your example, just because they didn't want to give you a place to sleep when you were on tour. Now you suggest you know who the true prophets are without them speaking a word. If we want to see one, go to Portland and find them with our Spiritual senses.
False Prophets were a constant problem in Israel. Instead of speaking the oracles of God, they related their own dreams and opinions, telling people what they wanted to hear. Scripture is close. Everything we need to know is written already in Scripture. No more new revelations.
---MarkV. on 9/5/09


MarkV: "Can you tell who is a prophet if you walk through a crowd? Just looking at them?"

You are truly thinking in physical/earthly terms. You know them through the spirit, not just by looking at them or listening to them. The spirit reveals thing in spirit not the physical. Anytime you are in the Portland Oregon area, you'll find a few on the street corners within several blocks from Pioneer Square.
---Steveng on 9/4/09


Steven G, I completely thought you said that they didn't have to say anything because through the Spirit you knew they were true prophets.
That means without speaking a word, you knew they, were not conteminated, by anything, and you gave reasons. Meaning denominations are. And you knew they were from God also, and that is without them saying one word. Just read what you said on 9/1/09,
What did they say that made you believe they were prophets?" They didn't need to say anything. Any person who is one in the spirit of God can recognize them straight away. Abraham knew the angels while they were still far off.
Can you tell who is a prophet if you walk through a crowd? Just looking at them?
---MarkV. on 9/4/09


MarkV: "Steven G, I reread Eph. 4:11 so very slow and cannot find anywhere in those passages where it states that prophets predict the future without speaking."

Again. Reread the verse. You are thinking with your head and not your spirit. I did not say prophets "predict the future without speaking," I asked what are the duties of a prophet.

It is you that said "that prophets predict the future without speaking." I did not say that. I said a godly person can recognize a messenger of God from afar off as did Abraham and others.

One duty of a prophet is to keep the christians on the right road to the Kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 9/3/09


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Steven G, I reread Eph. 4:11 so very slow and cannot find anywhere in those passages where it states that prophets predict the future without speaking. No matter how slow I read it, it does not change.
I thought you were on to something that I had not read before. Maybe that this prophets with their spirit communicate their preditions spiritually to all who have the Spirit of God, without really speaking a word. A "Spiritual communication" Just as the Spirit communicates with us believers.
---MarkV. on 9/3/09


MarkV: "Steven G, you sure made an escape with your answers. You won't name them, great, you will not say where they come from, great, and you do not have to hear what they say either to know if what they teach is truth because all you have to do is see them and can tell they are from God because of their spirit and your spirit, you understand each other without words. How can this guys be prophets without speaking?"

Everything I write and say is biblically proven.

"Do they go around just predicting the future without speaking? Steven, you might be on to something I never heard of."

Re-read Ephesians 4:11 very slowly.
---Steveng on 9/2/09


Steven G, you sure made an escape with your answers. You won't name them, great, you will not say where they come from, great, and you do not have to hear what they say either to know if what they teach is truth because all you have to do is see them and can tell they are from God because of their spirit and your spirit, you understand each other without words. How can this guys be prophets without speaking? Do they go around just predicting the future without speaking? Steven, you might be on to something I never heard of.
---MarkV. on 9/2/09


StevenG:

You finally revealed yourself.

When you said "christians today (including evangelists, pastors and teachers) need a person that has a direct link to God himself" you revealed that you must not believe I have direct access to God through Jesus and that I need another intermediate in addition to Jesus. Like a prophet or an apostle? Are you that apostle sir?

Do we need apostles and prophets today? I think not. We do not need any more men to chase after or to listen to.

You seem to know about the end times. Strong delusion will come and may even deceive the elect. Only the ones who know the real Word of God will know the truth and not be deceived. That is all the prophecy we need to know.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/1/09


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MarkV: "who are this prophets...?"

They are not infected with the opinions of men - the concordances, the christian reference books, and authors opinions. They have not spoiled their faith by men's philosophies - their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas.

"Can you name them?" If I named them, you would still be skeptical. Besides, they are not publicity seekers.

"Where do they come from?" They are truly from God.

"What did they say that made you believe they were prophets?" They didn't need to say anything. Any person who is one in the spirit of God can recognize them straight away. Abraham knew the angels while they were still far off.
---Steveng on 9/1/09


For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God, and are built upon the foundation of the APOSTLES and PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone, in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

If Jesus is the cornerstone, which is the first stone to be placed, then there are prophets and apostles to build upon Him.
---Steveng on 9/1/09


Wanted: Apostles and Prophets

We definately need apostles and prophets today, being the most wicked time in history, to keep christian on the road to the Kingdom of God. Most christians today have take a detour off the road to the kingdom where evangelists, pastors and teachers just don't do the job. Oh sure, they are a handful that are good at their jobs, but christians today (including evangelists, pastors and teachers) need a person that has a direct link to God himself. Most christians today have fallen away to the point where they are only hearers of the word or have followed other doctrines so the need for apostles and prophets is sorely needed.
---Steveng on 9/1/09


And God gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God... Ephesians 4:11.

Isn't it a shame that christians would obey nine of the ten commandments and leave out the Sabbath commandment. Isn't it also a shame that christians would include evangelists, pastors and teachers and then leave out apostles and prophets. Do you see a patteren of christian thinking?
---Steveng on 9/1/09


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Steve G, who are this prophets today that people are mocking? Can you name them? Where do they come from? What did they say that made you believe they were prophets? Very simple questions and since you made those statements about them why don't you provide us with your information?
---MarkV. on 9/1/09


God reveals things through people (prophets and apostles) to people in every generation. The end times are a very wicked period of time in which we are living today. Satan has had two thousand years to infiltrate and corrupt the church. A lot of corruption can happen in two thousand years - all taught by denominational "churhces" each having their own traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Christians are not listening to these prophets and apostles because they do not conform to the doctrines of their denominational "churches."
---Steveng on 8/31/09


StevenG:

Where does it say that "christians" will not recognize and mock the two witnesses?

Unless I read a different version of the Revelation than you do, Rev 9:20-21 tells me:

"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk, and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts".

These do NOT sound like authentic christians to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/31/09


The book of Malachi might help you,
and dont forget, it dont have to be the actual person, Moses, John, Elijah ect.,
Jesus told the D's that Elijah is already here and they understood that he was talking about John the Baptist, so it can be 2 ppl that God has been keeping normal/low-key until it's time and then they'll start preparing "the way" again, for those that are still here anyway's...
YLBD
---YLBD on 8/29/09


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Cluny: "I might add that Enoch and Elijah, whom Ignatius mentioned, are the two witnesses who will be killed by Antichrist."

Prove it.

You can't. It's your guess as many other guesses like Elijah and Moses. All it says is two prophets from God. It's the two prophets that christians will not recognize and will mock because the two do not conform to today's christianity. there are even prophets today that are walking the earth and are mocked by mainstream christianity because they don conform to denominational "churches" because they don't conform to their traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of their bible.
---Steveng on 8/29/09


the mystery religious christianity cannot comprehend from 1Corin 15 and seeing how

Christ is the first fruits of MANY the preview of the resurrection when ALL are resurrected to eternal life in Christ

DEATH will be defeated at Christs RETURN so those who are alive and remain - HIS LITTLE FLOCK protected in a place of safety during the times of trouble will be the first humans to NOT experience death ...then all those who REMAIN alive during tribulation to live during the 1000 year millenium will be the NEXT to NEVER experience death

salvation is not lip service it is Gods plan for mankind

until then it is appointed once for ALL men to die

Rhonda/AZ
---Rhonda on 8/29/09


"Do they not die?" No.
In the words of Jesus "he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth [resurrection day is implied] and believeth in Me shall never die."
"Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all 'sleep' (die), but we shall all be changed..." The Lord Jesus will "change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body.."
Jhn 11:25,26>1Cr 15:51>Phl 3:21
---josef on 8/29/09


They die but then go on to what is next, for each one. Dying means ceasing in this life. So, if a person is raptured, now the person is in resurrectional condition, no longer in the body one had in this life. So, the person has died, by passing on to the next existence, I consider.

About reincarnation > if an evil spirit has imparted its selfish ways of personality to a human while taking that one through this life > when the person dies, the evil spirit is the one who can go on to another human, later, and bring its personality to some next victim. And people can suppose it's the human who has come back, when . . . not exactly.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/27/09


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St. Paul also said in 1 Cor 15:51 said that we shall NOT all die. Those who are alive when Christ returns will be translated, too.

I might add that Enoch and Elijah, whom Ignatius mentioned, are the two witnesses who will be killed by Antichrist.
---Cluny on 8/27/09


There can be exceptions. Holy Tradition (i.e., Holy Scriptures, the Early Church Fathers, etc) tells us that both Enoch and Elijah was assumed into heaven, body and soul, without experiencing death. Please read Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5, and 2 Kings 2:11.

Anyway, let's first understand the passage. Read carefully. It said that man die only once, and then judgement (this refutes the notion of Reincarnation found in many eastern religions). That is all Saint Paul is saying. Death only comes once. Although reincarnation was perhaps not in Saint Paul mind when he wrote his epistle, Hebrews 9:27 still refutes it. Understand?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/27/09


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