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Days In The Creation

Is there any reason (other than a religious faith in evolution) to believe that the first three days of Creation were of any different length than the last three?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/27/09
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For those in the scientific world, a good working definition of 'day' is the following -

day: period of Earth's rotation about axis: a unit of time equal to the Earth's period of rotation about its axis, measured either relative to the Sun solar day or the stars sidereal day.

The age long conflict between the scientific community and the religious establishment is in the fact that the latter cannot point to a single verse of Scipture that states that a day is a 24 hour period of time.

The religionists often make the mistake that right beliefs are required for one to be a 'good' Christian, blinded by their own bias and stupidiity.
---lee on 9/1/09


//I am concerned when deceivers undermine the gospel. Been very quiet about that haven't you?

You really need to go back and study what the Gospel is. It has virtually nothing to do with issues that are basically peripheral such as the fact that all the creation days were not 24 hour in duration.

Apparently you need the 24 hour thing as you really have a problem with those that promote evolution.

Are Christians saved by having all the right beliefs on every subject?
---lee on 9/1/09


Alan 'foundations' does not mean bricks and mortar any more than the 'foundations' of our faith does.

The Hebrew 'makon' means foundations, place,site i.e. God placed the earth orbiting the sun-it won't be moved, from this orbit. Psalms contains truth 'wrapped' in poetic form. Of God 'You are clothed with splendor.' Clothed?

I don't take literature literally but take it at 'face-value' unless there is good reason not to do so. That is how we read all literature, including the Bible. We read 'the moon was a ghostly galleon...'and know what it means.

A flat earth???

However Genesis is written as historical narrative. See Numbers 7:12-84. Would anyone imagine this isn't historical prose? Why then Genesis?
---Warwick on 9/1/09


1stCliff, I patiently await your reply to this blog:

Further to your claims, further research shows you are very inaccurate. I would give a link but this site does not allow.

Believers in 24hr days:
Theophilus, Methodius, Lactantius, Victorinus, Basil and Ambrose. Plus Ephrem, Epiphanius, Cyril,

Those who view is unclear:
Eusebius, Josephus, Justin, Iraneus, Hippo, and others.

Those believing the days figurative: Philo, Clement, Origin, Augustine.

The last 3 made specific coments showing they believe in an earth age measured in thousands of years.

More research young master Cliff!

I believe you get your information from antiChristian sites.
---Warwick on 9/1/09


Mark Hebrew days of the week were numbered. The 7th the 'Sabbath' was the only one given a name 'rest.'

Luke 4:16 'He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom..'

From the NT we can deduct the Sabbath is what we call Saturday.

Why would the Jews, who we know were passionate about observance of rules, have changed the day to Saturday, if indeed they did?

If they did, why is it not mentioned in history, or in Scripture?

BTW I am not arguing that Christians must keep the Sabbath, on Saturday or any day, but that by all available evidence the Sabbath is Saturday. I don't understand why this bothers you.
---Warwick on 9/1/09




>Notice the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the 4th day?

Or, in order to have sunlight before the 4th day, the sun was here but now the earth is set in its orbit around the sun giving us the seasons, likewise the moon. The sun, the moon and the stars have been around for billions of years.
---dconklin on 9/1/09


Phil consult a good dictionary (e.g. Holman Bible Dictionary),you will see 'day' has 3 meanings:

1) 'Day' with a number (i.e. 6-days) is 24hrs-example Genesis 1:5
2) 'Day'-daylight-the time period between sunrise and sunset-example Genesis 1:14
3)'Day' a general expression of time, without specific limits.

That is how 'day' (yom) is used in Hebrew, English and other languages.

Looking at your examples:

'Genesis 1:1 - 2:4a, Exodus 20:11, 31:17, six day creation'-definition 1.

Geneses 2:4b-2:25 definition 'day' translated as 'when' in some Bibles-definition 3.

Job 38 :4-7 a comment about Genesis 1 creation. But done in one morning?

Psalm 19:4-6 Is a creation account? You jest.
---Warwick on 8/31/09


Lee, the length of '1 day, a 2nd day,..a 5th day, the 6th day' (Genesis ch 1) is controlled by earth's rotation rate, not light. Light demarcates day giving evening and morning.

Typically of your antiBiblical attitude you write '4th time period', when the Hebrew Bible has 'Yom Reveeee'-the 4th day-24hrs.

I am concerned when deceivers undermine the gospel. Been very quiet about that haven't you?

I interpret Scripture, as literature, as written. I understand metaphor, iambic pentameter, irony, poetry and historical prose. I do not interpret literally, to interpret literally is an oxymoron!

You ignore Scriptures which contradict your man-centred views, even Scriptures about the gospel!
---Warwick on 8/31/09


Are these some of the invisible thing?

Romans 1
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
(Then are we not to go by the things made?)
(So, we can understand,)
even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

(what is easier be believe six days or 4.55 billion years plus or minus about 1%)
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(Because you are saying, it took him 4.55 billion years plus or minus 1%)
---TheSeg on 8/31/09


Warwick **Question: If I said to you I work a 6-day week would you ask-how long are your days? If yes or no why?

No, because I realize that your work day is based on the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun which is 24 hours.

But you fail to understand God did not create the sun until the 4th period and we really do not know how many rotations of the earth were completed before the sun was created.

Certainly it has to bother you very much, since anyone can see that the Genesis record does not record the duration of the first 3 days.

As MarkV pointed out to you, you should be careful not to interpret scripture in a totally literal sense, otherwise you will be found to be rather foolish!
---lee on 8/31/09




If you are not a Christian, your Spirit is dead to the things of the Lord, and you can't understand them. Yet, some people would like to find error in the Bible, and therefore, find excuse for their lack of faith in God. Only a small amount of investigation is needed to understand Moses meant six 24 hour days.
Ezekiel 11:19, John 3:6, 8:43-45, Romans 6, 8:16, 1Corinthians 2:12-16, 2Corinthians 1:22, Galatians 4:6, Ephesians 2:1, 1Timothy 4:1-2, Titus 1:15, James 3:14-15, Jude 1:18-19, Revelations 21:8.
---Glenn on 8/31/09


No, all seven creation days were from sun set to sunset, seven twenty four hour days. Notice the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the 4th day? Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

FYI: we have no clue when water was created.
---John_Didymus on 8/31/09


Lee I will ask you this simple question again. A man of your qualifications and intellect should have no trouble answering but...

Question: If I said to you that I work a 6-day week would you ask-how long are your days?

If yes or no why?

Too easy!

God has no limits, we do, one of them being time. If you are corrrect watches and calendars are of no use.
---Warwick on 8/31/09


Warwick //I have said the 6 creation days were of the same length

And such is the plight of bad exegetics of those who limit the definition of a day as a 24 hour entity and refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Genesis account really does not specifiy the duration of the Creation days.

ASSUMPTIONS!ASSUMPTIONS!ASSUMPTIONS!
---lee on 8/31/09


(Exo 16:23) And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe, and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

I wonder what day the lord was talking about, maybe he was talking about Sunday and the all of Israel got mix-up or Monday or any other day of the week.

Look like anything is possible in scripture these days.
But I think he was talking to Israel, about a specific day.
You know like the one the bible talks about.
Come-on now stop-it everyone know what day it is!
---TheSeg on 8/31/09


Warwich 2:
We know what God said to the people. Moses told them what they had to do, work six days and rest on the seventh. Any individual who worked in whatever they did, had to start on a perticular day and work the six days and rest on the Seventh.
"Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "you shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet" and any other commandment are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fuffillment of the law.
---MarkV. on 8/31/09


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Warwick, it is one thing to present information that the Israelites were told by God under the Covenant of Obedience of the law, and another to proof which days they were. Without pulling hairs, I mentioned this because of one reason, the insistance of Saturday. I have not even got to the part of the Lord's Day, since the Lord's Day didn't come until much later, but to know what day God begin creating in order to come out with Saturday Sabbath is much harder. Exodus 31 says that anyone who profanes it will be put to death. How important that was is clear. So somehow, someone had to come out with some idea as to when to Start the week. But that someone was not God, it would be man.
---MarkV. on 8/31/09


Part 1 of 2 Let's look at some of the various creation accounts found in scripture Genesis 1:1 - 2:4a, a six day creation followed by a day of rest. Geneses 2:4b-2:25 a single day account of creation. differing greatly from the six day creation. Exodus 20:11 referring to a six day creation, Exodus 31:17 referring to a six day creation. Job 38 :4-7, creation taking place on a single morning. Psalm 19:4-6 God placed the Tabernacle (tent) in the heaven for the sun. An earth centered system no time period specified.
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/30/09


Lee aware you play childish word games I have said the 6 creation days were of the same length, confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11 as God said 6-days. Obviously 6 earth-rotation days, otherwise the Commandment would be meaningless, and the Sabbath a day of execution.

We all know what 6 days means don't we. So I ask you: if I said I work 6 days each week would you ask- How long are your days? Answer please.

The Bible was translated into English so that English speakers could read it. Therefore Genesis 1 is in English we understand. Even children know what '6 days' means.
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Mark we are speculating aren't we?

As you know God instituted a severe penalty for working on the Sabbath. Therefore considering He is perfectly just He must have been clear when the Sabbath was.

As I understand it the Jewish days are called First day (Sunday) Second day (Monday) etc up to Saturday 'Shabbbat' which means rest.

Hypothetically if the 7th day was originally not Saturday, then it was changed to Saturday. But this momentous event has not been recorded in Scripture or in Jewish history, as far as I know.

The Sabbbath day has always been taken deadly seriously by the Jews who celebrated it even in captivity in Babylon. They idea they would change one of God's 10 Commandments is unthinkable.
---Warwick on 8/31/09


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Warwick ... "Psalms 104:5,

KJV says "God ... who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever"

NIV says "He set the earth on its foundations, it can never be moved"

Taking NIV literally (and KJV as literally as it can be taken) Phil is correct when he says this would indicate a flat earth and earth centered universe, but I don't see where he got "no time duration provided"

It just shows how silly we are if we take everything in the bible to be absolutely literal. What can we make of verse 3? Nonsense, unless we treat it as poetical.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/09


Warwick, you gave Matthew 21 which was thousands of years after Exodus 20. When God mentione to take one day of rest. He didn't say, "Israelites, I want everyone to rest on Saturday all day and not on Sunday or Monday, but Saturday because if you do any other day you are sinning against Me" This is what is implied when someone from the SDA's answer others, they say that Saturday is the only day and if you rest on Sunday it is against the law. I find no where in Scripture the day given as to been the Saturday. Now maybe through time the Israelites decided, let all rest on Saturday, and maybe sometimes on Wednesday because it is recorded they also had Wednesday Sabbaths on many occations.
---MarkV. on 8/30/09


//Lee Scripture is not silent on the length of the days of creation, as has been repeatedly shown here.

While you have certainly repeated time and again that all the Creation periods were of 24 hour duration, you have yet to point to a single scripture that states that. As a result, you base your beliefs on what is commonly known as ASSumptions.

//Amusingly it was you who gave the Holman Dictionary definition which said a 24hr day is defined by Genesis 1:5! Yes you Lee!

Holman did not specify any particular verse of Scripture that states the Creation periods were of 24 hour duration. Like you, they simply stated what they believed without any specific evidence of scripture.
---lee on 8/30/09


Phil you are of the kind who make claims they cannot back up.

You said Genesis 1 is poetry. I showed it is not but you had no answer just let it slide and move on to another falsehood.

You falsely claimed there are two creation accounts in Scripture. I demonstrated there aren't. But no comment. BTW Jesus didn't believe there were 2 creation accounts. Ask me how I know Phil?

Now you say there are multiple creation accounts in Scripture. Where Phil, where?

You claim Psalm 104:5 promotes 'a flat earth and earth centered universe ' Please explain.

BTW we say the sunrises, do we mean that it actually rises or are we speaking of the appearance of the situation, well aware it doesn'r rise?
---Warwick on 8/30/09


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H3117 Yom / day. Unless it is modified by another word, it means either first light to twilight, or one sunset to the next (24 hours). As elsewhere in the Bible, day used with an ordinal number (first through sixth), and the term evening and morning means a common day, Exodus 20:11, 31:12-17. Genesis 1:4-5 concerns the earths rotation, and the use of day with night, as elsewhere, means a regular day. Genesis 1 is a literal narrative, and Christians believe that God presented an accurate account of the event to Moses.
---Glenn on 8/30/09


Lee Scripture is not silent on the length of the days of creation, as has been repeatedly shown here. Amusingly it was you who gave the Holman Dictionary definition which said a 24hr day is defined by Genesis 1:5! Yes you Lee!

The truth is hidden to you because you reinterpret Scripture through your antiBiblical long-ages/ evolutionary views. If a Scripture disagrees with your worldly views then you say Scripture is wrong! You persist in this even though your man-made view undermines the gospel. Been very quiet on this haven't you? For good reason.

You say 'the Bible is not the source of all truth.' But I say what God has told us is the only absolute Truth that exists.

You reject God's Truth but claim to be a Christian!
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Lee I think Matthews was writing about you. You are famous!

"If one is disinclined to surrender to God, one is inclined to read the text in the light of our own 'culture.'"

"Are we submitting to the picture of God in Scripture? Or are we putting ourselves over Scripture and rewriting it in terms of our own preferences."

Kenneth Matthews, Old Testament scholar at Alabamas Samford University, as quoted in Time November 4th 1996 p79. Genesis Reconsidered commenting on Genesis chapters 1-11

No he wasn't writing about you specifically Lee, but all those who Judge God's word from a worldly point of view.
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Alan God gave the Sabbath Commandment to the Israelites. Whether it applies to Christians or others is a totally different matter.

Nonetheless God does not deceive people. He commanded the Israelites to work for 6-days, rest the 7th. They took this to mean that what we call Saturday was the Sabbath-the 7th 24hr day.

Interestingly the name for Saturday in a number of languages is Sabbath-Shabbat, Sabado,etc.

Thinking in the light of Exodus 31:12-15 and remembering God is Absolutely Just, He would not have left them unsure as to when the 7th day was. Would God proclaim a day when the penalty for working was death, without being clear when it was? That Saturday is not the Jewish Sabbath is an argument from silence.
---Warwick on 8/30/09


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Mark, Matthew 28:1 says ' After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week..' This was written about Jesus' resurrection. It has been traditionally believed Jesus arose on Sunday, this being why why we worship on Sunday.

Seems to point to the 7th day being the Jewish Sabbath doesn't it.

Maybe the Jewish Sabbath was once a different day and was changed. That doesn't seem plausible. I can see the scene, thousands of Israelites standing about-someone says-Hey you guys we are going to change the Sabbath day! Out came the rocks!

In the historical records the Jewish Sabbath has always been Saturday. I cannot imagine how something they took so deadly seriously could be changed and no mention be made of it.
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Part 2 of 2 Psalms 104:2-3 God stretches out the heavens like a curtain and laid the beams of his chambers in the waters. Psalms 104:5, God laid the earth firmly on its foundation so it could not be moved, a flat earth and earth centered universe no time duration provided. Proverbs 8:22-32 God first created Wisdom at the beginning of his work , Wisdom vied the creation process no time period specified. And John 1:1-5 In the begging was the word and the word became light referring to Christ no time period specified

There are multiple creation accounts in scripture most differ with each other but God is the central figure in each of these accounts and that is really all that matters.
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/30/09


Mark ... You are quite right!

If there were fixed day (such as the old Jewish Sabbath, now our Saturday, or the more commonly observed Sunday) on which God required us to rest and worship Him, no doctor, nurse, fireman, policeman, or mother would be able to do anything on that day, on pain of eternal condemnation.

As you say, scriptures do not say which day we should rest. Clearly if there is a worshipping community, they will tend to organise their collective worship on a certain day ... thus Sabbath or Sunday.

But that does not mean individuals may not have their own rest & worship day.

---alan8566_of_uk on 8/30/09


Jerry, you did not provide any passages that state that God begin creation on Sunday. Or that the Sabbath Day was on Saturday. All I read it that they work six days and were to rest the Seventh. They could have worked Tuesday through Sunday, and Monday could have been their Sabbath.
What I do read is that God gave the commandment to Israel. You say, Many miss the entire meaning of the Sabbath. The seven day cycle was instituted as a reminder to US that our God is the God of creation (a distinction that no pagan god can match), and that He has set an appointed time to meet with us weekly."
How can it be a reminder to us who are born of the Spirit who believe the gospel, who should already believe in the God of creation?
---MarkV. on 8/30/09


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Jerry 2:
who should be walking in the Spirit every second of our lives? It cannot be a reminder unless we forget who we are in Christ. I don't believe it is possible with a genuine believer.
The commandment was given to Israel for obedience. The Israelites themselves were in training. They were constantly fallen into sin. God demanded at least one day of rest, because they were under the covenant of the law, which could never save anyone. If you really think of this subject the command given to the whole nation of Israel never mentions that if any individual worked six different day and rested a different seventh day he would be condemned. Because the commandment never mentioned an exact day. At least not in Exodus 20.
---MarkV. on 8/30/09


//Do you have any idea how absurd your arguments have become? The Genesis record tells us that there were six creation DAYS, and that each DAY - every single one of them - had an evening and a morning.

We are still waiting for you to point to at least one scripture that tells us that the Creation days were all 24 hour duration. BUT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO SO BECAUSE THE RECORD DOES NOT STATE THAT.

As to 'evening & morning' what the time duration between each? It could have been eons.

It is unfortunate that you do not have a scientific oriented mind, but merely one that is capable only of parroting some religious bird who merely wants you to base your religious views on ASSumptions.
---lee on 8/30/09


Warwick - can you provide the Scripture that tells us the scientific truth behind the fact that gravity makes things fall to the ground? Can you also do the second law of thermodynamics?

As the scripture is also silent on such issues, then we can plainly see that it is also silent on the duration of the Creation days.

Sorry, that you do not have an inquiring mind, like those in the scientific arena and you have yet to realize that the Bible is not the source of all truth.

Suggestion: give it up, your arguments are hopelessly lacking in any known rationale.
---lee on 8/30/09


Mat 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea, have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
---TheSeg on 8/30/09


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Lee: "the Genesis record does NOT tell us the duration of any of the creation periods."

Do you have any idea how absurd your arguments have become? The Genesis record tells us that there were six creation DAYS, and that each DAY - every single one of them - had an evening and a morning. If you can't figure out what a DAY means, I suggest you ask any child. They can understand it even if you can't.
---jerry6593 on 8/30/09


Lee wrong again, Scripture clearly says the 6 creation days are the same length.

I have repeatedly challenged you to give any Scriptural, grammatical or logical argument against this but you are silent. Obvious conclusion.

You are also silent regarding the fact Scripture says death is a consequence of sin, the only foundation of the only gospel. You reject and oppose any Scripture which contradicts your long-ages/evolutionary fables, insisting death of man came before sin.

'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive' 1 Corinthians 15: 21,22.

In your willing ignorance you claim you know better than God!
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Dan, Scripture says the 6-days of creation are the same length, what we call 24hr days. There is no Biblical evidence for a contrary view.

Question: If I said I work for 6-days would you wonder how long they are and whether they are the same length?

Lee et al have had ample opportunity give a Scripturally based counter argument but are silent for obvious reasons.

They argue passionately and rudely for days of unknown length because they hold to long-Ages/evolution a belief plainly contradicted Scriture. A belief which has death of man before Adam's sin! However the gospel is based upon the fact that sin entered the world only after Adam's sin.

This isn't important?
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Yea I think your right!
About the six creation periods.

Just so long as you clearly see, you are changing the name from days to periods.
I do believe you can make the creation periods, anything you want.

It just when you call them days, you know like what the bible call them.
If, some of you, would just look at the word you use. I think you would see much better!

Whats so funny to me is, most of my life. I believe the same thing.
But if you would just stop for a min. Ask yourself, why are they not 24 hours?
You would see why they are 24 hours.
---TheSeg on 8/30/09


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Further to your claims further research shows you are very inaccurate. I would give a link but this site does not allow.

Believers in 24hr days: Theophilus, Methodius, Lactantius, Victorinus, Basil and Ambrose. Plus Ephrem, Epiphanius, Cyril,

Those who view is unclear: Eusebius, Josephus, Justin, Iraneus, Hippo, and others.

Those believing the days figurative: Philo, Clement, Origin, Augustine.

The last 3 made specific coments showing they believe in an earth age measured in thousands of years.

More research young master Cliff!

I believe you get your information from antiChristian sites.
---Warwick on 8/30/09


Warwick - while a few Joe Sixpacks with their academic expertise did in fact, believe that all the days of Creation were a mere 24 hours, we also cannot deny the fact that the Genesis record does NOT tell us the duration of any of the creation periods.

One can also find some prominent theologians of yesterday that truly believed the earth was the center of the universe, that the sun revolved around the earth.

Therefore what you have is a theology based upon ASSumptions.
---lee on 8/29/09


MarkV: "He did rest on the Seventh Day. But what day that was is not mentioned anywhere from Genesis 1 to Exodus 20:8-11."

Try Exodus Chapter 16. When Jesus led the Hebrews (and the Gentile mixed multitude) through the wilderness, He personally taught them the weekly cycle of six days work followed by ONE DAY of rest in the lesson of the manna. He specifically called the seventh day the Sabbath.

Many miss the entire meaning of the Sabbath. The seven day cycle was instituted as a constant reminder to US that our God is the God of Creation (a distinction that no pagan god can match), and that He has set an appointed time to meet with us weekly. You can pick your own day if you want, but God's blessing isn't in it.
---jerry6593 on 8/29/09


Cliff, Philo,Josephus et al, references please.

To living guys and the living word of God:

Prof. Barr of Oxford, a 'liberal', hostile witness, convinced the writers of Genesis meant 24hr days.

Holman Bible dictonary reference showing Genesis 1:5 defines 24hr day.

Dr's Andrew Steinmann, Robert McCabe, Ting Wang et al, experts in Scripture-you got it, 24hr days!

The Standard Hebrew OT Lexicon-yep 24hr days!

Most importantly God's word:the days are 24hrs. God commanded the Israelites-live in work-mode for 6 of his 24hr creation days,rest the 7th or be executed!

All above know when and how long the 7th is, as did the Israeli's. You don't, fortunately you are not an Exodus 20 Israeli!
---Warwick on 8/29/09


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//So,God's 'rest' at Heb.4 is Lee's exegetical way of explaining 'Christ's presence'.

Can it be helped that nearly all the commentaries do not support your view that one enters the rest of Christ by observing the Jewish Sabbath instead of simply believing on Him?

Or do you really know something that more learned Bible students do not know?
---lee on 8/29/09


Mark my comments were to show, from Scripture, that God's 6-days of creation, 7th of rest, were ordinary earth-rotation days, the same length as the 6 days of work, 7th of rest as Commanded. Otherwise this Commandment is meaningless. And unless they were 6 + 1 ordinary days the Israelites would not know when the 7th day was, and would have been executed for working on it.

See Exodus 20:11 God tells them the reason for the 6 + 1 'For in 6 days the Lord made the heavens and the earth....but he rested on the 7th day.' God gives the 6 + 1 command then says- for (because) that's what I did! How anyone can imagine the two groups of 7 days are not the same length beats me. This is opposed by Scripture, grammar, and logic-logic last.
---Warwick on 8/29/09


So,God's 'rest' at Heb.4 is Lee's exegetical way of explaining 'Christ's presence'.

('the rest is not a day, but the presence of Christ'- Lee, 8/28/09)

Where in Hebrews 4 is 'the presence of Christ' mentioned? This is pure exegesis.

Of Course, those who believe and 'exercise faith' enter 'God's rest'(Heb.4:3- doing God's will taking 1st place- 4:9) But, Paul said there 'remains for some to enter into it (God's rest)' by listening and obeying the Good News of the Kingdom, 4:2.

Paul shows God's 7th day of rest was running in King David's day(4:5) and also in his day(4:9).

Paul is not encouraging Christians to observe the Jewish Sabbath, but that there 'remains a Sabbath resting for the people of God'.(4:9)
---David8318 on 8/29/09


God's 7th day of rest began because God said it began. Gen.2:1

What God doesn't say is that it has ended the same way as the previous 6 days. One should not overlook the fact that this account of the 7th creative 'day' does not conclude with the words that definitely say that the particular creative 'day' of an evening and a morning ended as was the case at the conclusion of the previous 6.

The previous 6 creative days ENDED with the words, 'There came to be evening, and there came to be morning...' They did not start with these words.
---David8318 on 8/29/09


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"God's 7th day rest has run for over 6K yrs to date. The previous 6 creative 'days' could've been 24hrs or any other length of time."
---David8318 on 8/28/09

With respect, you contradict the Bible. When Jesus led the Hebrews (and the Gentile mixed multitude) through the wilderness, He personally taught them the weekly cycle of six days work followed by ONE DAY of rest in the lesson of the manna. Then, He wrote it in stone with His own finger and commanded us ALL to REMEMBER it. How strange that the one Commandment that starts with "REMEMBER" is the one most FORGOTTEN!
---jerry6593 on 8/29/09


Warwick, you said on 8/27/09, "Also they could not have known when the Sabbath was and would have been executed"
My question to you is, in your seven day period of creation, how do you or they knew that the Sabbath was on a Saturday? How from having seven days do you get Saturday? No where does it say that God started creation on Sunday in order to get to Saturday for rest. He did rest on the Seventh Day. But what day that was is not mentioned anywhere from Genesis 1 to Exodus 20:8-11.
I didn't know that your arguments were really to establish the 4th Commandment, Saturday Sabbath. I thought your arguments were to defend the seven days period.
---MarkV. on 8/29/09


If I might interject. Clearly, God created the world in 6 days, however those six days are defined by God. The world was different then, no rain, apparently no sun or moon until the third day.Nothing indicates 24 hours. We merely know "evening and morning." Without the Sun we have no idea how all that happened. Also, time, unlike truth, is relative.
A doubting world benefits little from seeing Christians debating fine points of interpretation. We all agree that God made the world in 6 days. What is to be gained by a dispute as to how long those days were? Will this cause anyone to come to the knowledge of the truth? It is time for this debate to end. Surely, there are weightier matters that concern us.
---Dan on 8/29/09


Tom, at last we seem to be agreeing, or did I missread you?
---Warwick on 8/28/09


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David there was no 8th day of creation so there was no need to mark off the end of the 7th day. God's 6-day creation and 7th of rest was complete.

Also 'evening and morning' marked the beginning and the end of a day. Therefore if their absence means the day never ended then their absence also means the 7th day never began!

Further the language of Exodos 20:8-11 shows the 7th day, the Sabbath, was a day because (Exodus 31:12-15) God commanded that any Israelite working on the 7th day was to be executed.

If you are correct then every Israelite would have been executed, if every day following creation was the 7th, the Sabbath.
---Warwick on 8/28/09


I have worked it out SusieB. Any bits of Scripture we don't want to believe we just write off as tribal stories.

Maybe the 10 Commandments are tribal stuff!
---Warwick on 8/28/09


warwick,if such a denomination exists then neither you nor I have to worry about them other than them leading others astray,but even for that sake God himself will eventually hold them accountable,and I agree also us if we dont atleast attempt to set them straight.
---tom2 on 8/28/09


but understand,jesus himself prophesied that in the end days false teachings would abound,and false gospels,so in a real way though we may attempt to deliver the truth by what our lord said it will happen anyway.
---tom2 on 8/28/09


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Now David has brought an intersting time perspective into this!

God made the world in 6 days of 24 hours each.

Then all of a sudden, His next day has been over 50 million hours, and is still going on.

Now, we are told in the 10C to follow that example ... labour for 6 days, and then rest forever, same as God has done.

Sounds good to me!
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/28/09


David //To say God's 7th day has ended is contradicting the Bible at Heb.4:1-11.

Your exegetics of scripture is extremely poor, why don't you simply read a good commentary on Hebrews? You will find that those who have believed have already entered his rest, the rest is not a day, but the presence of Christ.

Also you need to examine other scripture on this subject. For instance, read Romans 14:5 where it states one may esteem one day over others or none at all. It is impossible to observe the Jewish sabbath and not esteem all days as alike.

Sorry but if you need to, you can go further and find out why none of the early church fathers taught Sabbath observance to Gentile believers.
---lee on 8/28/09


God's 7th day of rest has not ended. God has not declared the 7th day ending as He did with the previous 6. The scriptures do not say: 'And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a seventh day.'

This has not yet happened because God's Will for the earth is not yet complete. (Ge.1:28) Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath' will ensure God's will is complete at the end of his Millennial reign.(Lu.6:5)

To say God's 7th day has ended is contradicting the Bible at Heb.4:1-11 where Paul encourages Christians to 'enter God's rest'. (desist from secular matters and focus on doing God's will)

God's 7th day rest has run for over 6K yrs to date. The previous 6 creative 'days' could've been 24hrs or any other length of time.
---David8318 on 8/28/09


Now, thanks fo Phil, I gotta go back and read my Bible again so I can figure out which part of it is just tribal stories and not the truth.
---SusieB on 8/28/09


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Tom the point is, those who argue against 24hr days have a hidden agenda. Almost to a man they believe in long-ages/evolution, a belief, which they promote to the unknowing, which places death of man, before sin, the opposite of that which the gospel in based upon. It undermines the truth of the gospel.

Are we really saved or is it some intellectual exercise?

Whole denominations have disappeared into liberalism because no one was prepared to stand up and show them their error.

If you don't think anything is worth defending, arguing about, then just go your way and stop arguing.
---Warwick on 8/28/09


Wawick,You never addressed my post that showed the early church fathers and writers of whom none believed in evolution.
Where Philo,Josephus,Justin Martyr,Iraneus,Hppolytus,Clement,Origen,Lactanius,Victorinus,Methodius,Augustine,Eusebus,Basil and Ambrose all "undermining "God's word by not subscribing to a 24hr,creation day?
Perhaps they were bright enough to see that there were 6 time periods called "days"
Especially day 6!
Do you imagine they were uninformed about Gen.1.5?
---1st_cliff on 8/28/09


Phil Genesis ch. 1 and 2 are not 2 different creation accounts, and they don't contradict one another. Ch. 1 is the overall picture from the beginning before which nothing existed and the recounting of what was created in the following 6-days. It finishes with Genesis 1:31 when God saw what He had created and it was very good and there was evening and there was morning, the 6th day.

Chapter 2 recaps the creation of man and woman. It doesn't cover creation in general but covers things of direct import to Adam and Eve, and the garden.

It isn't another creation account as it doesn't mention the creation of the earth, moon, sun, stars, seas, land, sea creatures etc.
---Warwick on 8/28/09


Phil you claim Genesis one is poetry. If it is poetry in English then it must be a translation of underlying Hebrew poetry, correct?

However it is not poetry in Hebrew, far from it. It is historical narative in Hebrew, similar to Numbers 7:12-84.

The Psalms contain much poetry and they are very different lamguage to Genesis. See Psalm 19:1:

'The heavens declare the glory of God,
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.'

Do you see the difference?

BTW if God meant us to understand the 6 creation days as just 6 time-periods why did He define them, as He did, then call them 'one day, a second day, a fifth day' etc?
---Warwick on 8/28/09


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NO,my faith is in God,in his son jesus,in his promises,not in a drwawn out debate over the length of a day.Surely God realizes we are intelligent enough to know that a sinrise,or sunset is a day.early man as I eluded too thought the world was flat.I KNOW GOD CREATED THE WORLD IN 6 DAYS 24 HOUR DAYS.but when I speak to someone about God,and jesus I have never mentioned this,or even had it in a conversation,there are FAR TOO MANY OTHER THINGS PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAN HOW LONG A DAY IS.
---tom2 on 8/28/09


Tom, surely you play games.

I am told that many members of pseudo-Christian cults were once Christian but drawn away by very subtle people who lead them away from Biblical Christianity. Many Christians are Biblically illiterate and cannot defend what they believe. 1 Peter 3:15'...Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.' But most cannot defend what they believe, cannot give the reason.

But you think we should not oppose those who seek to draw people away from Biblical faith!

You jest!
---Warwick on 8/27/09


Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Just Six!

Think about it!
Who are the ones trying to change what is written?
Warwick just believes it!
And I thank God for that!
---TheSeg on 8/27/09


Could God have made it in less then 6 days? Im sure!
Could he have taken longer then the 6 days? Im sure!
Did he say I did it in 6 day? Im sure!

Now of these, pick the one that is closest to the truth.
Now of the one you pick and going by the things that are made, now long is a day?

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, -

God know, I have tried to except all things.
I say now, without changing anything or adding anything!
You tell me! How best to glorify God?

When they knew God, they glorified him not as God.
---TheSeg on 8/27/09


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warwick,again you miss the mark. JUST what do you think anyone can do to as you say undermine gods word? NOTHING,is the answer.No matter what men say,no matter what men do,no matter what men believe,it doesn,t affect Gods word,or Gods plan.the only thing affected are the thoughts and actions and decisions of men,which by the way are God given free will choices.
---tom2 on 8/27/09


again I ask and say,how silly of anyone to make a comment that any mans beliefs,or words can undermine Gods word.we can be a stumbling block,which this silly argument over the length of days has become.Everyone knows a day is not a thousand years,or a million years,or 10 million,or a billion.time is not relavant to God,he is outside of it,beyond it,and our thinking should be also.Jesus told pilate his kingdom was not of this world,eternal life is spiritual life,not this physical time measured reality we reside in.
---tom2 on 8/27/09


Cluny 2 Peter 3:8 says to God 'a day' is like 'a thousand years' and 'a thousand years' like 'a day.' This only makes sense because we already know what 'a day', and 'a thousand years' means, doesn't it?

God does not 'measure' time as we do, as he is eternal, outside of time. Time was created for us and 'one day' defined by God in Genesis 1:5.

There is no Biblical evidence that the days of creation were other than ordinary days, 24hr days, as we say. There is every evidence they are, both here and in Exodus 20:8-11. If the Israelites did not know what God meant by 6 days,then one of the commandments is meaningless. Also they could not have known when the Sabbath was and would have been executed.
---Warwick on 8/27/09


Tom, you persist in saying there is no point in believing what God says, that the 6-days of creation are what we call 24hr days.

Please answer this question: Why would God define what 'one day' is in Genesis 1:5, and apply this formula to the following 5, if He didn't want us to know what the length of a day is?

I have found, as a rule, over two decades of discussion that those who try to evade or redefine the length of the days of creation do so against what Scripture says, because they have accepted long-ages/evolution. This view undermines the only historical basis for the one and only gospel but some say it doesn't matter.

Does it matter if we undermine the gospel Tom?
---Warwick on 8/27/09


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Tom, read the narrative of Numbers 7:10-84. It is about various people who brought offerings to God. Vs. 12 'The one who brought his offering on the first day was Nashon. VS. 18 'On the second day Nethanel...brought his offering. followed by 'on the third day, fourth day, fifth day' etc.

We understand this event occured over 12 24hr days don't we? Only because we already know what 'one day' first day, a second day, a third day,' etc mean because of what God wrote in Genesis ch. 1.

We can only understand what a word means if it has already been defined.

Interestingly for a guy who claims to be opposed to arguing, you are very keen to continue arguing! If it doesn't matter why not just accept what is written?
---Warwick on 8/27/09


Bill, throughout Scripture the evidence is the days of creation were ordinary earth-rotation days. And 6-days, one straight after another.

In Genesis ch.1 'and' occurs 90+ times. Genesis was not originally written with verses, but as one historical narative, the events connected by 'and.' For example 'And God said "Let there be light," and there was light, God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light... The 'and' represents the vav consecutive in Hebrew-doesn't allow for gaps.

Remember God defined the first ever day 'one day' in Genesis 1:5 and described the following five with the same formula.

In Exodus 20:8-11 God says He created in 6-days so the Israelites would work for 6 days-no gaps!
---Warwick on 8/27/09


To me, 1 Corinthians 15:35-36+ shows that Paul was willing to give a helpful answer to a foolish question (o:

I understand God is able to do what Genesis says, in twenty-four hours . . . easily. And we have how at the return of Jesus to resurrect His church Bride > each child of God will be changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52). So, if God can *resurrect* our bodies in an eye-blink's time . . . surely He can create all He pleases, in *less* than twenty-four hours, more easily than it is for us to just *think* about this.
By the way . . . *does* Genesis say any creation day *immediately* succeeded another ? ? ?
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/27/09


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