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Adding To The Bible

When a Church teaches tradition, our custom, or anything that cannot be found in the Scriptures are they guilty of violating this verse, Proverbs 3o:6,"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

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 ---mima on 8/29/09
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Steven G, Alan is correct. You said, where two or more" what does more mean? and again you judge what others are doing in church, just because you don't agree does not make it wrong. So they want to sing to the Lord, who are you to say its wrong? And how do you know that it was not God who was moving them to be at the Church? You don't know. And so what if a few Christians want to help some of the poor and form a group to do just that, who are you to say it's wrong? Did you ever think that maybe your not been guided by the Holy Spirit? There is Christians that listen to the wrong voices. Maybe the enemy is using you, without you knowing, to move people from the house of God? so that many who would come to Christ, just leave.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09


Let's evaluate the statement "Corporate worship is blasphemy."

In the OT, was the Temple built for God's benefit or for man's? What the purpose of the Temple to house God or to worship God? Did people worship all by themselves in the Temple or was the Temple for all people to use? During Festivals and High Holy days, did the people congregate and worship together or all alone?

In the NT, when Jesus taught, did He teach only one person at a time? Did He teach in the Temple?

Did Paul and Peter preach to only one person at a time? Did they preach in the synagogues? Did the NT church in Acts get together? Did they worship together?

Is the "body of Christ" one body or many individual members?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/14/09


Steveng - most denominations have started as a reform movement simply because all too many in the established churches became dissatisifed. So if you gather around you those like yourself, you will be establishing simply another denomination in which sooner or later, some will become unhappy for whatever reason and again start another group that eventually if it grows in size will simply become another denomination.

The answer is be all you can be as a Christian taking advantage of whatever source is available for your spiritual growth in Christ. In that way, I grow in the knowledge of Christ and do not concern myself with established religions.
---lee on 10/14/09


Going to a corporate/denominational church every Sunday is a burden to most christians.

People go to "church" at a certain time and day (mostly Sunday morning).
During service people have certain non-biblical rules and rituals to follow. They stand up and sing, sit down, then stand up and sing, sit down listen to a sermon, stand up and sing.
After an hour of these rituals,
" A huge difference than what Jesus had planned, eh?
---Steveng on 10/13/09

Steveng...you've got eyes that see. Ever notice that preachers....give one-two minutes of scriptures up to one hour of jokes and personal stories?
Wolf's, time wasters mostly. Think they started out right....just got lost along the way.
---Trav on 10/14/09


Now we need to define blasphemy.

Blasphemy, 1(a)the act of insulting or showing contemp or lack of reverence for God. (b) the act of claiming the attributes of deity. 2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable.

Going through the motions of worship one day a week, probably doesn't qualify for blasphemy. However, I'd like to think that most people believe in their heart that is an appropriate way to honor God.

When a person comes to Christ, they probably believe going to church is the right thing to do, not knowing what fellowship really is.

Fellowship, exhorting, encouraging, rebuking, stimulating to love and good works. "One another" usually doesn't happen at an institution.
---Rod4Him on 10/13/09




Steveng ... You make a basic human mistake by deciding that only your definition of a word is correct.

Corporate worship is understood by most to mean us getting together with others to worship God as a group, whether formal or informal.

As the Bible says "Where two or three are gathered together ... " Do you deny this?


Gary ... The the "preferred" definition? How can you decide what the preferred definition is, out of several given?

& you say "The word corporate doesn't appear in the Word of God" Neither does the term "Small Group Worship"
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


alan8566_of_uk: "You are describing corporate worship!!!"

Corporate worship is blasphemy.

Do you have corporate fellowhip with a friend? Of course not. You have a personal relationship with a friend. God only wants personal relationships which is not formed by incorporation.

As for the definition: I surely do know what the word "corporate" means having owned several - even as of today. But do you see God in any of the definitions? No, of course not. The worldly definition is people who bring people together. In Christ's church it's God who brings His people together, not people or marketing strategies.
---Steveng on 10/13/09


StrongAxe: "Whenever two or more are gathered together to worship..., that IS corporate worship."

Going to a corporate/denominational church every Sunday is a burden to most christians. People go to "church" at a certain time and day (mostly Sunday morning). During service people have certain non-biblical rules and rituals to follow. They stand up and sing, sit down, then stand up and sing, sit down and listen to a sermon, stand up and sing. After an hour of these rituals, they get up and leave to go home and do it again the following Sunday. Some even might have formed a social club after service. This is today's "church." A huge difference than what Jesus had planned, eh?
---Steveng on 10/13/09


Rod4Him ... I reckon that half of the more unpleasant arguments here result from people putting their own meanings to words, and refusing to accept that other people may have other understandings of that word.

My dictionary contains four definitions of corporate, these are two

"relating to a large company or group"

"of or shared by all the members of a group"

Grammatically "corporate worship" surely MUST fall into the second definition?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/13/09


Rod4Him - You are totally correct. In fact, the preferred definition of corporate has to do with a corporation, not a group of people getting together.

The word corporate doesn't appear in the Word of God. Most people would consider the definition to be that dealing with a corporation.

Since local church organizations are usually incorporated, to use the term corporate to mean a group of Christians getting together can be very misleading.

Researching the topic, I find that many Christian organizations differentiate between Small Group Worship and Corporate Worship (worshiping in a local church).
---Gary on 10/13/09




It would probably be a help if the term corporate was defined. One word means one thing to one person and something else to others.

When I think of corporate, I think of a set organizaiton with rules and set procedures, approved by the state. Institutions and a heirachy of officers also come to mind. I'm not saying my definition is right, it's just my description.

If I meet a couple of friends downtown, I don't think, "Oh, we are in a corporation now."

What are some other definitions that people are using for a corporation?
---Rod4Him on 10/13/09


Have you not read that when two or more are gathered in my name there is Jesus? This means anywhere whether on top of a mountain, on the beach, in the home, at the park, or at your favorite cafe.
---Steveng on 10/12/09

You illustrate my point, exactly. Blasphemy? I think not.

What exactly do you think corporate worship is? It is meeting with more than just yourself! How can "iron sharpens iron" if you never meet with another believer?

Look at all the places in the OT where God told them to "assemble", "gather". Even Jesus said he would build His church.

You need to evaluate your hatred for churches.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/13/09


Steveng ... "Have you not read that when two or more are gathered in my name there is Jesus?"

Yes of course we have read that !!

You are describing corporate worship!!!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/13/09


Steveng:

Whenever two or more are gathered together to worship (whether in a church, or a house, or a car, or a mountaintop), that IS corporate worship. So how is that blasphemy?
---StrongAxe on 10/13/09


Mark_Eaton: "I worship on my own in my own house, but corporate worship has been ordained by God and should not be detracted from."

That's blasphemy.

God would never ordain corporate worship. If what you say is true then all churches would be one in the spirit. They are NOT one in the spirit. They are as diverse and as different than the stars in the sky - each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible.

Have you not read that when two or more are gathered in my name there is Jesus? This means anywhere whether on top of a mountain, on the beach, in the home, at the park, or at your favorite cafe.
---Steveng on 10/12/09


Steven,
I understand your past, I was in the same condition. We MUST let the Holy Spirit teach us. We cant depend on churches or men.
Even the bible is limited if we JUST read it. Its not always what it says but what it means and who its for. Much prayer and seeking the Lord will give the answers.

When I thought I knew the answers, HE threw me down and gave me a new heart and mind. Then I knew the right way... HE is the way..
---duane on 10/12/09


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Steven G, I was also a Catholic and went through similar circumstances. But that did not move me to abandon every church on earth but to find one that teaches correctly. You on the other hand because of how you were brought up condemn every church. There is many churches teaching the right doctrines, with many inside not yet saved. In all, people are human and fail in every way, no matter how good they want to be. You mentioned on other blog no one can see the heart of another, and yet you make all this remarks about the hearts of others. As if somehow you are the only one with the real Truth. I admit there is a lot of bad churches. But if you are guided by the Spirit you will find the good ones. Discernment is possible to all who believe.
---MarkV. on 10/12/09


Steven #2, I agree with what Mark E, has said in the gathering of believers. We are called to gather together. Not everyone is evil Steven. And please remember even though the Catholic church has done so many wrong things and teach many false things, in that institution there is still many whom God has elected who will come to Christ and you or anyone else don't know who they are. What God has ordained will come true. All of His elect come from all corners of the world, and from many institutions. They will learn the Truth, and they will come to Christ, and they will be saved. God is never wrong.
---MarkV. on 10/12/09


Mark E. I agree with much that you write, however, you said that corporate worship is ordained by God. Where is that found?

Hebrews 10 says to assemble to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, and to encourage one another. That passage doesn't say to gather to worship.

It appears that church tradition has developed to the point where the whole "church service" is worship, worship in song, worship in greeting, worship in giving, worship in listening to an oration, I don't see that in scripture.

We should assemble to help the body grow in Christ by doing the work of the ministry to "one another," not by one person speaking for 30-40 minutes.
---Rod4Him on 10/11/09


Steveng:

You have said on another blog "I only defend one church - the church Christ started which has practically disappeared from the face of the world during these last days".

Tell me, where do you attend such a church?

You are talking about the global body of Christ, of which I am a member. I assume many bloggers here are members also. We defend such an institution, but yet we need a local body in which to corporately worship.

I worship on my own in my own house, but corporate worship has been ordained by God and should not be detracted from.

Where do you corporately worship?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/11/09


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Steveng - I know where your coming from. No local church really wants me as a member for the same reason. I am always asking why this and why that when the Bible says otherwise.

Most local church leaders are totally OUT OF ORDER. They no longer stick with God's Word, but have rather added their own words and teach it all as God's Word.

The vast majority of church goers have been brainwashed. They believe whatever their pastor says. It's the blind leading the blind.

It's a shame, but in more than one case I have had to teach the pastor what the Bible really says. And once I show them, they change their teaching.
---Gary on 10/11/09


MarkV: Children know instinctively the hypocrits of religious people. I was a devout Roman Cathlic, living with a devout Roman Catholic family in a devout Roman Catholic neighborhood and even an alter boy until I, and my sister, was kicked out of school and eventually forced to leave the community in Chicago. I wasn't bad as most kids who get kicked out. I was bad for being a pest - asking too many questions, being persistant in answers, with students and teachers about why the Catholic church was doing things against what the bible taught. I was nine years old. My mom hated me for years afterwards.
---Steveng on 10/11/09


Steven G, I answer you because you condemn everyone except yourself. You say you don't follow traditions, teaching from Bible helpers because you get everything from the Holy Spirit. Are you saying the Holy Spirit tells you when a metaphor is spoken, or an alligory? And if He does, does He explain to you what an alligory or metaphor is? You say you follow Christ words only, and when He says He is the door, do you think He is? Or are you so smart to know it's a metaphor, without knowing what a metaphor is to begin with from any book?
Steven, God gave us a brain, a passion to learn, and the only way you will learn is to learn how to interpret the word of God correctly. Even when you do learn, you need the Spirit to bring light to God's Word.
---MarkV. on 10/11/09


MarkV: "Steven G, [you] suggest only you know the Truth."

My only source of knowledge and inspiration is the bible itself and my time with God. I don't need to depend on concordances, reference books, novels or movies, but only the Holy Spirit to guide me. I don't let others spoil my faith and joy with their philosophies, their twisted interpretations of the bible, their ways of living, their traditions, their wrong and shallow answers built upon men's ideas and thoughts. I only depend on what Christ has said. For in Christ there is all of God in ones body. A person has everything when you have Christ and are filled with God through your union with Christ. He is the highest ruler with authority over every other power.
---Steveng on 10/10/09


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obewan: "Still, I go to a non-denominational mega church."

Any "church," whether denominational or non-denominational, is government controlled. Once a church becomes a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation they are told what to do and say through government regulation (and that regulation is going to get worse).
Christ's church doesn't have that government control and the only authority is from God not the government.

Let me repeat myself: denominational churches are a product of Satan who is the father of confusion. A newly born christian would surely be confused about which church to join, which church is the true church. Would a protestant congregation allow a Catholic priet to preside over it?
---Steveng on 10/10/09


Bravo, MarkV !!

Well said!!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/10/09


Denominational christians bicker about how their church is the real church. ---Steveng on 10/9/09

To be fair though, many are becoming ecumenical and reaching out to other "churches" to work on common projects. There has been a movement in recent years to focus on what is held in common instead of what seperates.

Still, I go to a non-denominational mega church. We are networked with at least 10 or 20 various denominatioinal churches in town where people all come together for commen events.

But, even in a non-denominational church, there are issues that can divide. Some drink wine, and some do not. The difference is we don't let differences split us all up.
---obewan on 10/10/09


\\
The denominational "church" is a product of Satan. \\

And who do you think produces "non-denominational churches"? They are, at best, merely single-congregation denominations.

There is only ONE pre-denominational Church.
---Cluny on 10/10/09


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Steven G, but who are you to judge another? You have your own believe just like others? You talk about prophets you talked to, to suggest only you know the Truth. You say Christians bicker among themselves but you are bickering too, here on line. You are human and have the same sinful nature everyone else has, for you sin just like everyone.
Do you think people are dumb enough not to know that in every gathering of Christians there will be tar's envolve. Even Jesus mentions that the wheat grows together with the tars. So long as humans live in the flesh there will always be sin. I believe your opposition against churches is very wrong. But as someone said before, you will believe what you want to believe, for you too are a sinner.
---MarkV. on 10/10/09


We tend to forget that the bible isn't the gospel. The bible is a tool made up of several differant books by differant authors inspired by God. In those pages we find the gospel, which is the word of God. The bible was translated in the early 1600s and was writen in the literature of that era. You know the word - demon - is not in the KJV bible? So you can change the words, but not the meaning. The gospel is complete, and can not be changed, misunderstood, but not changed. That's why Christ said to build a strong foundation. That way we have the blocks to build on and suport what we believe in.
---Buzz on 10/10/09


Steveng - You are correct that denominational churches are a bad thing.

Problem is, every non-denominational church is ALSO a denomination in itself because the church leaders of each one will determine their own idiosyncrasies.

I have attended a non-denominational church that taught we are still under the OT laws. I have attended another non-denominational church that taught we are no longer under the OT laws. Both taught the OT tithe.
---Gary on 10/10/09


I believe the denominational church is a product of not wordhipping in the spirit.
---tom2 on 10/10/09


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The denominational "church" is a product of Satan.

Each denominational "church" have their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. A newly born christians would certainly be confused about with church is the true church. Denominational christians bicker about how their church is the real church. They even bicker within each denomination saying, "Our church has a better pastor (or entertainment, youth group, etc.)."

A person can become a christian without joining a denomination. Read Colossians 2:8-10. Also do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourage" because the christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle.
---Steveng on 10/9/09


Markv* In answer to your question why some don't agree is that the method for using "Sola Scriptura" because when interpreting not all interpreters use the method on every single passage. Sola Scriptura is useful when an interpreter runs into a passage that seems to contradict another passage, but Scripture has other passages in order for us to interpret the passage correctly. Scripture interprets Scripture.


But all use the same method but have different interpretation, how does one determine who right or wrong?
---Ruben on 10/9/09


I believe the Father clearly intended for us to recognize and honor the division brought about by Jesus' crucifixion.
---mima on 10/9/09

I not only agree with you mima, but I believe that those who don't accept this division are very much diminishing what Jesus did for us on the cross.
---Gary on 10/9/09


Rod and Mark excellent points.

Darkhorse we all realize that church means the people and in our hearts is where JESUS builds His church. What we are talking about is how Denominations intrepret scripture and the two main schools of thought today.

Mima it is not possible to actually adopt both. That is like saying you are a Democrat and a Repbulican. Both may be loyal U.S. Citizens but they look for answers in different ways.

For example most Covenatal Theologians are Post tribulationists. While Dispensationalists are generally Pretrib.
---Samuel on 10/9/09


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Ruben, Samuel is correct, about Dispensationalism and Covenant theology. Which is called "Covenantal Theology"
In answer to your question why some don't agree is that the method for using "Sola Scriptura" because when interpreting not all interpreters use the method on every single passage. Sola Scriptura is useful when an interpreter runs into a passage that seems to contradict another passage, but Scripture has other passages in order for us to interpret the passage correctly. Scripture interprets Scripture. Dispensational theologians place relatively more emphasis on discontinuity. They see humanity's responsibilities within each dispensation as a different type of test from the previous one. Talking about Covenants.
---MarkV. on 10/9/09


I believe in both Dispensationalism and Covenant theology I believe they go together.
And I believe in a strong and clear separation between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The most distinguishing factor between the Testaments must necessarily be the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ!
I believe the Father clearly intended for us to recognize and honor the division brought about by Jesus' crucifixion.
---mima on 10/9/09


dO THOSE WHO BLOG HERE NOT REALIZE THAT "THE CHURCH" IS NOT A BUILDING BUT THE ONE THAT IS WITHIN THEIR HEARTS? Does not one belong to "the Church" when they acceot Jesus as their Savour? I say-YES
The "true" church is within the hearts of those who have truly given their hearts to Jesus not a building or a denomination.
---dARKHORSE on 10/9/09


I really liked your answer to this very deep, deep topic. Adding and subtracting to and from God's word!++ Glenn, Good job.
---catherine on 10/8/09


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I agree with you Samuel. There is something wrong with dispensationalism. It seems to nullify many scriptures and cut up the Bible. According to dispensational thinking, much of the Bible needs to be thrown out today and then dug up after the body of Christ is gone.

I can't say I have a perfect anwer yet, but I know something with that thinking is wrong.

We are in a New Covenant in Christ. We worship God in spirit and in truth, now. Jesus is the mediator between God and man, now.
---Rod4Him on 10/8/09


Two of the main schools of interpretation today are Dispensationalism and Covenant theology. Most people do not even know what the words mean.

Dispenationalism which I oppose builds a wall between the New and the Old Testament.

Covenant has each build on and include the previous.

These two views give very different answers on some topics.
---Samuel on 10/8/09


Sola Scriptura was another method for interpreting, and this method was better because Scripture would interpret Scripture instead of man interpreting Scripture where he could put his own meaning and not God's meaning.
---MarkV. on 10/8/09


Mark, how is that so? You believe in OSAS and that God did not give us Free Will, but there are some where who go by Sola Scriptura and disagree with you on both. So if scripture interpret scripture than why are they wrong and you are not?
---Ruben on 10/8/09


No, no, no, that is not what they are a doing! There is another scripture which borders on that. You'll find it I think in Matthews. The scripture you are referring to here in essence means this: "We must be content with what God has thought fit to make known to us of His mind, and not covet to be wise above what is written". God's word is pure there is not the least bit of corruption or falsehood in it. It is sufficient and we must not add to it. In other-words be satisfied with what God has written and also what He has revealed to us by revelation, yes! Also, I might add that our knowledge is limited, no matter how much we study or think we know. God is all "knowing".
---catherine on 10/8/09


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Only if they are teaching the tradition or custom as though it were God's Commandment, or else if the tradition is contrary to God's word. Basically the "adding to" or the "taking away" from God's word doies not mean saying anything not literally written in the word, but instead it is using any words that would change or alter God's clear word. For example, if I said, the Lord says to take your Holy Bible and give it to your co-worker at work as a gift. This word is not detailed in the Bible, but that word may have come to me straight from the God after the Bible was published, so in this case this is not adding to God's word, but instead this would indeed be God's word. PLease read John 16:13+ 21:25.
---Eloy on 10/8/09


Mima 2, my point to you was that all through history people have been using different methods and principles to interpret scripture and many were very wrong. The alligorical theory had to be accepted by the comparing it with the Church traditions. If it went against what they taught they would not accept it.
Sola Scriptura was another method for interpreting, and this method was better because Scripture would interpret Scripture instead of man interpreting Scripture where he could put his own meaning and not God's meaning.
---MarkV. on 10/8/09


Mima throughout history theologians have been using different principales and methods to interprete Scripture. The earliest discussions of biblical interpretation begin with Ezra. Nehemiah 8:8 recalls, "They (Ezra and the Levites) read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people could understand what was being read"
Later in the time of Christ, Jewish exegesis could be classified into four main types. We also have the Midrashic interpretations during the times of Christ, Ribbi Hillel, during the rise of Christianity by a generation is credited with developing the basic rules of rabbinic exegesis. the Allegoical exegesis was another presupposition and principle to bloom
---MarkV. on 10/7/09


People need to be aware of the difference between tradition and custom, and what the Bible teaches. If a "church," a church being a one day event at a specific building, teaches a tradition or custom as being "thus says the Lord," then that is dangerous.

Just because something is traditional or customary doesnt mean it a wrong. We have many customs that are normal and fine, such as shaking hands when greeting one another. If the "church" taught that one has to shake hands that would be in error.

So, what are some traditions or customs that the church teaches?
---Rod4Him on 10/7/09


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mima:

2 Timothy 3:16 essentially says "All scripture is good". It does NOT say "All non-scripture is bad". To infer that would be a logical fallacy, similar to the following:

1) All men are mortal.
2) Dogs are not men.
Therefore, dogs are immortal.

There are many things we read that are non-scriptural yet good. For example, since you use this site, you are required to read the Terms of Service and obey them. They are not scripture. So either you use this site in violation of its rules, or you obey rules that are not scripture.
---StrongAxe on 10/6/09


alan8566_of_uk: "The Churches' job is not necessarily limited to religious teaching.

See Matthew 25.34 on

I would suggest this includes teaching:
... life skills to teenagers abandoned by parents
... survival skills to battered wives
... cookery skils to new widowers
... etc

and those are not in the Bible"

That's true. We are also to comfort and encourage people - and to set an example as godly people should. Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag."
---Steveng on 10/6/09


Adding to & Even taking away from scriptures.
Where trinity people using their carnal theology & philosophy twisting scriptures such as saying, there's 2-3 god's & or persons in a god-head which there is No Such.
That Is adding to scriptures.

Ministers saying, you dont have to be baptized to be saved but you have to be baptized to be in my church,(what's more important, to be in this ministers church or going to God's Heaven?) This Is taking away from scriptures.
---Lawrence on 10/6/09


Correction to my explanation:

The children of Israel took their TITHE to the Levites. The Levities were commanded to TITHE on the TITHE and take it to the priests. The priests did NOT tithe. They were commanded to take the BEST portion they received and use it as an OFFERING to the Lord. Numbers 18:28.

Therefore, the priests did NOT tithe at all. Since we are now the priests, we should be receiving a tithe, not paying a tithe.
---Gary on 9/1/09


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SIX STEPS TO UNDERSTANDING WHEN AND HOW THE TITHE ENDED

STEP 1 - Hebrews 7:5 - Levitical priesthood received the tithe
STEP 2 - Hebrews 7:12 - changing the priesthood necessitates a change of the law
STEP 3 - Hebrews 7:18 - tithing annulled
STEP 4 - Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14 - abolished the law by nailing it to the cross
STEP 5 - Galatians 4:5 - redeemed from the law
STEP 6 - Galatians 3:10 - those who reject what Jesus did on the cross and continue to put themselves under the law are cursed by the law.
---Gary on 9/1/09


Leslie - I think you need to read Leviticus 27:30-33 more closely. God commanded tithing from His increase, not man's increase. Read it.

Leviticus 27:30: And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORDS: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:32: And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Either follow it or don't, but IF YOU CHANGE THE WORDS TO TITHE ON YOUR INCOME, YOU HAVE CHANGED GOD'S WORD. Can't you understand that?
---Gary on 9/1/09


Leslie - You obviously don't follow God's command to tithe in Leviticus IF you tithe on your income.

Do you follow the tithe commanded in Deuteronomy 14:22-27?

Do you follow the tithe commanded in Deuteronomy 14:28-29?

Do you follow Leviticus 25:3-7 where the crops could not be harvested every 7 years, therefore, no tithing on crops every 7th year?

Are you saying God didn't know the future so we have to "adjust" His Word to the times?

Don't tell me you follow God's command to tithe when YOU CHANGE THE COMMAND TO TITHING ON INCOME. You haven't fooled God for a second.
---Gary on 9/1/09


Leslie -

Leviticus 27:30-33 is a command to the children of Israel to tithe. It is NOT the command for the priests to tithe.

Numbers 18:26 is the command for the priests to tithe - and they tithe ON THE TITHE. Before a priest could tithe, he had to RECEIVE a tithe from the Levites. Then he tithed on the tithe he received.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 shows that the tithe went to the Levites INTO THEIR CITIES, not to the temple, thus, the tithe NEVER went to the storehouse. Only the tithe of the tithe went to the storehouse.

Too bad pastors don't bother reading the Word, or is it they know, but lie?
---Gary on 9/1/09


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Gary - You are WRONG and TAKE AWAY from God's Word - which is ALSO sin. God DOES COMMAND to tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33). Yes tithing was commanded to the priests, but WE are the priests of today according to the Bible (so He is talking to us). Also, God and His Word are the same yesterday, today, and FOREVER - they do NOT change. What is in the O.T. is still applicable in the N.T. and today. God did NOT change His mind. If you think He did, then you are in sin and disobedience to God.
---Leslie on 9/1/09


\\It would be impertinent to think that Jesus Christ when He preached on earth, failed to teach everything. Therefore, we must believe that the gospel of Christ as He taught it to His disciples is complete.

And the disciples obeying His command, declared to us ALL they have seen and heard, WRITING them in their epistles. \\

They admitted they didn't write everything down.

Twice, St. John wrote, "I have many things to say to you, but I cannot express them in paper and ink." (or similar words)
---Cluny on 9/1/09


The Bible says:
IF ALL the things that the lord has done
was put into books, The Whole world couldn't contain them!

Can you even begin to imagine that concept?
---YLBD on 8/31/09


#2
It would be impertinent to think that Jesus Christ when He preached on earth, failed to teach everything. Therefore, we must believe that the gospel of Christ as He taught it to His disciples is complete.

And the disciples obeying His command, declared to us ALL they have seen and heard, WRITING them in their epistles.

Therefore, the bible as it is today, contains all the commandments of God which we need for our salvation.
---manny on 8/31/09


"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."(Jhn 21:25)
---Ruben on 8/31/09


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Manny.

It is silly to believe the Early Christians of the 1st century believe in Sola Scriptura when the only Scriptures they knew was the Septuagint (Greek OT, LXX) and a few NT books. However, what books should be included in the Bible was debated for four centuries.

It is also silly to believe everything is contain in written form (2 Thes 2:15), or that God's word is only in written form.

The belief of Sola Scriptura is a tradition in of itself, not supported by Scriptures, and like Mima, I doubt you follow 100% your tradition. Do you go to any local church?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/31/09


Manny.

It is silly to believe the Early Christians of the 1st century believe in Sola Scriptura when the only Scriptures they knew was the Septuagint (Greek OT, LXX) and a few NT books. However, what books should be included in the Bible was debated for four centuries.

It is also silly to believe everything is contain in written form (2 Thes 2:15), or that God's word is only in written form.

The belief of Sola Scriptura is a tradition in of itself, not supported by Scriptures, and like Mima, I doubt you follow 100% your tradition. Do you go to any local church? Why do you believe in a 66 book Bible, a extra biblical tradition?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/31/09


No! Proverb 30:6>>>We must be content with what God has thought fit to make known to us of His mind. And not covet to be wise above what is written..... Perhaps this is why God said to me the other night: "You don't need know to know all the details of my business"! Also, scripture teaches that "Every word of God is pure, There is not the least mixture of falsehood and corruption in it.
---catherine on 8/31/09


#1Is it silly to follow only God's words

Rom.1:16 "...the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation..." In Mat.28:20, Jesus commanded His disciples, "teach them to observe all things..." So the gospel of Christ which he taught to His disciples was ordered to be taught in its entirety.

The disciples obeyed. "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you..."(1Jhn.1:1-4) They declared ALL. How?

"and these things WRITE we unto you..."(1Jhn.1:4) In 2Thes.2:15: "...you have been taught,whether by word or our epistle." So when we read the bible as it is today, the apostles are in fact teaching us (through their epistles) Christ's gospel.
(continued)
---manny on 8/31/09


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#2
It would be impertinent to think that Jesus Christ when He preached on earth, failed to teach everything. Therefore, we must believe that the gospel of Christ as He taught it to His disciples is complete.

And the disciples obeying His command, declared to us ALL they have seen and heard, WRITING them in their epistles.

Therefore, the bible as it is today, contains all the commandments of God which we need for our salvation. Hence, any commands, traditions not in the bible can be construed as that of man's and not God. And to obey these commandments of men is equal to worshipping Him in vain.

"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Mark.7:7)
---manny on 8/31/09


"If one does not follow customs and traditions of the general local church, is that person violating some expectation of God?" (Rod).

No. However, I do have a problem with those who find fault in churches simply because there local customs/traditions have no scriptura basis. The fact is that every church (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental, etc) have customs/traditions that have no scriptura basis.

It is silly to believe that following a custom, tradition or teaching not found in Holy Scriptures is somehow violating a commandment found in Holy Scriptures. The belief that everything must be found in the Holy Bible or else is wrong is a tradition in of itself, and a very silly one I might add.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/30/09


I suggest that most customs and traditions are not necessarily bad until they become, "Thus saith the Lord." Try suggestioning that some tradition or custom be changed, and one will find how ingrained they are into "Christianity."
Here's a related question from a different perspective: If one does not follow customs and traditions of the general local church, is that person violating some expectation of God?
---Rod on 8/30/09


Mima. It is silly to believe the Early Christians of the 1st century believe in Sola Scriptura when the only Scriptures they knew was the Septuagint (Greek OT, LXX) and a few NT books. However, what books should be included in the Bible was debated for four centuries.

Come on Mima. You really do not believe in Sola Scriptura, even though you profess it. Do you believe in Altar Call, Sinner's prayer, having pews in church, using musical instructions in church, having 66 books in the Bible, having a pulpit where the Pastar/Preacher puts his Bible, etc ? If so, give Scriptura support.

How many customs (traditions) does your church have Mima that doesn't have Scriptura support? I will say many.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/30/09


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Mima. Try again!

No. In order for that verse to teach Sola Scriptura it must state: A) Holy Scriptures is the only rule of faith and B) Only Holy Scriptures is profitable for teaching/reproof.

Can we just stick to what thee Scripture states Mima? Profitable is not sufficient . And besides, when Saint Paul wrote that the only Scriptures he knew was the OT. So do you follow only the OT? Do you also believe 2 Thes 2:15, where the Early Christians was told NOT to follow only what was written?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/30/09


Here's the Scripture that causes us to follow Sola-Scriptura "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" this is second Timothy 3:16
---mima on 8/30/09


Mima,

No! You are adding 21st century Protestant thought into Holy Scritures.

Prove Sola-Scriptura using your Bible. You have that custom (tradition), yet it is not the Bible. Now what?

Do you believe in Altar Call, Sinner's prayer, having pews in church, using musical instructions in church, having 66 books in the Bible, having a pulpit where the Pastar/Preacher puts his Bible, etc ? If so, give Scriptura support.

How many customs (traditions) does your church have Mima that doesn't have Scriptura support? I will say many.......

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 8/30/09


Tradition in many churches is that baptisms occur in a baptismal font inside the church instead of rivers like happened often in the Bible. Does this make it wrong? Absolutely not!
---SusieB on 8/29/09


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Tithing on income is a good example of church leaders adding to or changing God's words, and then teaching it as though it is God's word. Teaching that you tithe on income is, in my opinion, a crime against God. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on their income.

Preachers are good at changing God's Word and convincing the ignorant to follow it.
---Gary on 8/29/09


Churches that do this ARE guilty of adding to the Word. Mormonism is the best example of this.
---Leslie on 8/29/09


Once more mima tries to stir up strife.

No, not necessarily.

Why do I say this?

Because at the time it was written, Proverbs itself was not immediately recognized as a part of the Bible. Only the Torah was.

Nor, at the immediate time they were written, were the books of the New Testament considered part of the Bible.
---Cluny on 8/29/09


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