ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Earth Billions Of Years Old

My kids are being taught in school that the earth was created billions of years ago. How can I show them the school is wrong?

Join Our Free Singles and Take The Creationism Quiz
 ---Roni on 9/4/09
     Helpful Blog Vote (3)

Post a New Blog



Any thoughts?
---kathr4453 on 9/10/09

When I read the verses, I am thinking BIG BANG!
Because God called forth light from the void.
Scientist have called space "the ocean".
When we look at it, it looks like an ocean of light. They are now trying to figure out what caused the big bang, haha- GOD!
Anyway, Theres no air either- it appears in v.6(firmament)
Then he calls forth darkness(v.5). There were no stars until v.16.
It comes to mind that God was like a painter.God used his spoken word like a painbrush.
I think too, it is important that water and Light were first. Living waters comes to mind and Light of God in Christians also comes to mind. Just some thoughts.
---miche3754 on 9/11/09


Larry in context bohu and tohu mean formless, and empty.Context: this is the beginning of creation when the earth had not yet been shaped, when no land was yet visible, see vs 9-its final form was yet to be finished. It was also empty because no vegetation or creature had yet been made. Warwick***


Warwick, that is incorrect. Please look at Jeremiah 4 23-27.
Jeremiah 4:23

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens, and they had no light.

Yet in verse 27 God says, HE will not make an end to it,just as He did not in the beginning. God uses these EXACT Hebrew words,without form and void, but this time he is talking about devine JUDGEMENT on the earth AFTER the 6 day creation.
---kathr4453 on 9/11/09


Lee: "//It is impossible to accurately translate that verse to accomodate billion-year evolution.

Totally incorrect, as what constituted a 'day' during the first 3 periods were totally different than what constituted the last 3 'days'."

As usual, you miss that which is right before you, and see instead that which is not there. The verse in question (Exo 20:11) makes no mention whatever of "the first 3 periods." It simply states "For in six days," without the slightest differention as to their individual character. Again I assert:

It is impossible to accurately translate that verse to accomodate billion-year evolution.

Thanks for proving my assertion with your inept response.
---jerry6593 on 9/11/09


char: Very good! Note also that God told Adam and Eve "in the DAY you eat thereof, thou shalt surely die." Subsequently, no one lived over a thousand years.
---jerry6593 on 9/11/09


Gen.1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

How, warwick, is God defining a day in v.5 compared to v.14 where God is specific?

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The 1st 3 days being 1000's of yrs and the last 4 being literal doesnt change God creating ALL in HIS time.
He says clearly in 2 Peter 3:8 how long HIS days are. That GOD DOES in fact combine the 2. Exodus doesn't give exact time.
where do you fit Lucifer's fall and flood within literal 6 days? These events did happen before man was made.
---miche3754 on 9/11/09




To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Words can not express things. Speech can not convey the Spirit. Swayed by words one is lost.
---Shawn.M.T on 9/10/09


Larry in context bohu and tohu mean formless, and empty.

Context: this is the beginning of creation when the earth had not yet been shaped, when no land was yet visible, see vs 9-its final form was yet to be finished. It was also empty because no vegetation or creature had yet been made.

This chaos and confusion idea came about because of the KJV translation of Genesis 1:28. In the KJV is the word 'replenish' which today means 'refill.' 'Replenish, is a translation of the Hebrew 'male' which means fill, not refil. When the KJV was translated 'replenish' meant 'fill' but over the centuries it has become to mean 'refill.'

Other translations correctly translate 'male' as 'fill.'
---Warwick on 9/10/09


Cluny I do not take Genesis literally, any more than I take any literature literally. I take literature, of course including the Bible, at face-value, at its straight-forward meaning, unless there is good reason not to do so. In reality I don't know anyone, who understands what litertally means, who takes Scripture literally.

As regards the creation of water it would appear that when God created the earth it was composed of earth and water. His word does not say He created the rocks and soil, nor water, but it is quite reasonable to conclude He did so. Verse 9 says God commanded dry land appear. I can only imagine this means it was already there, but covered by water.
---Warwick on 9/10/09


--Roni:

The Light God Created in Gen.1:3 when He said "Let there be Light", was used to divide the darkness, and He CALLED it(or defined it, as warwick shared) Day & the darkness He CALLED Night.

The sun & stars was not created until the 4th day in Gen.1:14-19, when God said "Let there be lights in the firmament of the Heaven to divide the day from the night"....and God has set these lights to govern as signs, seasons & years upon the earth, RULING(Gen.1:16) over the first Light which He called day.

Don't look to show your kids the wrongs of school, just train them up in the way they "SHOULD GO"(by sharing the Truth), and when they're older they'll not depart from it. Pro.22:6
---Shawn.M.T on 9/10/09


Miche think about it. God defined what 'one day' is in Genesis 1:5 and used this formula to describe the length of the following 5 days. He calls them 'one day', 'a second day' ...'a sixth day.' He combines this with evening and morning showing they are all the same length.

When we say 'I work for 6-days' no one asks 'how long are your days?', because we already know what 6-days means, don't we.

In Exodus 20:8-11 God confirms He created in '6-days.'

Also day-length, today, then, and everyday in between, is not controlled by the light source, only by earth's rotation rate.

If God did not mean 6-ordinary earth-rotation days why did he so carefully define what a day is on earth?
---Warwick on 9/10/09




Gen1:5
And God called the light Day,the darkness he called Night.And evening and morning were[echad]...ONE DAY.

2Pet3:8-10(all)not be ignorant..ONE DAY is with Lord as a thousand years,a Thousand years as ONE DAY.

Gen 5[Generations]
The DAYS that were lived:
vs5:Adam-937 years
vs8:Seth-912 years
vs11:Enos-905 years
vs14:Cainan-910 years
vs17Mahalaleel-895 years
vs18Jared-962 years
Methuselah-969 years

Gen6:3
And the Lord said,'My spirit shall not always strive with man,for that also flesh:yet HIS DAYS shall be an hundred and twenty years.
---char on 9/10/09


Boyd God said He created in 6-days, defining 'one day' in Genesis 1:5.

Exodus 20:8-11 God confirms He created in 6-days, rested the 7th, so they would work for 6, rest the 7th. If these days are not ordinary earth-rotation days this Commandment is meaningless. The nonBiblical long-ages belief is an evolutionary construct.

If the earth is billions of years old Jesus, the Creator, has lied. See Mark 10:6-He says man was made at the beginning of the creation, that in which He and we live. Man was created on day 6, so from Jesus' viewpoint of 4,000 years after the beginning, this is the beginning. If you are correct man appeared at almost the end of the creation, billions of years after the beginning! The opposite!
---Warwick on 9/10/09


I've asked these same questions before, kathr443.

A literalist interpretation of Genesis 1:1 says that water was prexistent before the Creation.

This is why I'm of the opinion that the opening words of Genesis 1:1 IS the Big Bang: the making of the time-space-matter-energy continuum, where it was all undifferentiated, "without form and void".

And, as Genesis goes on, "Let there be light." Present theory says that light was the first thing to separate from this continuum.

So far, so good.
---Cluny on 9/10/09


Kathr, yes. The Hebraic terms of "bohu" and "tohu" used refer to chaos, confusion and desolation. The age of the earth or time between God's creation of the earth without form and its current physical state is not stated and so people can take the lack of a stated period of time and run with millions or billions of years.

Even more interesting...before the formation of the modern earth was there such a thing as time?

Was time created with man?
---larry on 9/10/09


Miche, I'm not sure that proves the last 4 were measured differently than the first three.

If I hang a clock on my wall to tell time, that doesn't change the measurement of time, it only lets me know the time.

On the FIRST day, God said let there be light.....I don't see him say...Let there be earth.

The Holy Spirit moving upon the waters is interesting too, and nowhere do I see on any specific day of the 6 day creation God saying....let there be water. He in fact separated the water and land... as would appear it was already in existance???

Any thoughts?
---kathr4453 on 9/10/09


Bereshiyt does not tell us it is [The beginning], rather then[A beginning].
... separating and filling.
Greco/Roman(modern western:culture...hence the word Genesis)loses the Hebrew thought.
BLOCK LOGIC:
Gen1:3-5
Hebrew has a word for First,second,Third etc...
Days 2-7 uses these words.
The word for[FIRST-reshon]is not used here.
[Echad]meaning 'One' or 'unity' IS.
It is a parellel with the'first' day and all the days...
Separating and filling...
in parellel...
Gen1:1
Translators used one word inplace of many hebrew words with a specific content behind it.
example:
Hayah-was or became,pass away..
Gen1:2
And the earth[was or became]without form and void.
---char on 9/10/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Abortion Facts


Leon, the answer to this is simple. Just do what Scripture says (e.g. 2 Co. 10:4) and 'demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God....' It is clear that we are commanded to do this and are given 'divine power' to achieve this.

My persistence with you Leon is that you are a Christian who honours God's word. However you express a view which is clearly contradicted by Scripture and will not accept what He says about this! But then you write we should 'trust God, by His word (the Bible), will show us the truth.'

He has. Why do you not act upon it, and suggest it is maybe an option?
---Warwick on 9/10/09


Warwick
The question was not about evolution. Just because I think the earth can be billions of years old does not mean that evolution was in place of God.

God is eternal, so time to God is nothing compared to our view of time. So God taking HIS time to create the earth and allow physical laws to do it's work is perfectly normal. After all, God allows physical laws to allow our physical bodies and minds to function in its way. These are laws God put into motion. He uses them to his advantage.
---boyd on 9/10/09


Genesis:a Greek word for the Hebrew word...[Bereshiyt].
Study Hebrew prespective to understand it's literature in is origin.
Bereshiyt tells the story of the filling up the heavens and earth.Span of time is an abstract idea foreign to Hebraic thinking.
[BaRa]second word of the Bible.
Pictograph and representation:
*[B]Tent floorplan=family,house,in
*[A]Ox Head-stong,power,leader
*[R]Head of Man-first,beginning top
1Sam2:29 translated 'fattening'
Why?
[Hebriac]to fill up,to fatten,to make fat,to expand...[a family,birds in sky,fish in water etc]...
Gen2:7 compared Gen1:26
And the Lord God [formed man of the dust of the ground,and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life],and man became of living soul.
---char on 9/10/09


Because scripture backs it up, I believe as Kath does in this subject.
During the first "3 days", God created earth then Lucifer fell.
I believe it was jealousy and pride(not in any specific order) that caused his fall.
I also don't believe that God created sin.
The bible says that Lucifer introduced sin into the world through the deception of man (Adam and Eve).
So, Lucifer's fall from Grace had to happen within the first "3 days".

Warwick, stating this does NOT discredit Genesis. AND God is NOT limited in what he can or cannot do. He says this. - Day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years is like a day to him. He Exists outside of human time constraints.
---miche3754 on 9/10/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Acne Treatment


-Raw Hebraic-
Creation within a span of time is an abstract idea foreign to Hebraic thinking.
Raw look,not theory or translation.
-Pictorgraphs-
Ancient Hebrew language are pictures, representing letters, into words.
First word of the Bible:bereshiyt].
[Be]is the prefix [in],
[Reshiyt]derived from [rosh]and[rey-sheet].
Pictograph,representation for [rosh]:
*Mans Head-first,beginning,top
*Ox Head-strong,power,leader
*Two Teeth-press,eat,two
Pictograph for [rey-sheet]
*Man Head
*Ox Head
*Closed Hand-work,throw,worship
*Two Crossed Sticks-mark,sign,signature

Raw,literal meaning:Head or top of a place or time,what is prominent.
'The' is an article,not present.

In-Beginning or In-Summit
---char on 9/10/09


Warwick: This has turned into a real bone of contention for you. :) Are you trying to convince me from your point of view? Why don't we both just take a deep breath & trust God, by His word (the Bible), will show us the truth. Peace! :)
---Leon on 9/10/09


\\
The Bible is the enemy of atheistic evolution. The two cannot be harmonized.\\

Not all theories of evolution are atheistic.

"Evolution" basically means a gradual and orderly development from simpler to more complex forms.

I have no objection to a model of evolution that doesn't exclude God from the process. After all, does not God work through the natural processes and means that He Himself set up?

But I also acknolwedge that God is not something that can be observed or quantified by the appliance of the scientific method.
---Cluny on 9/10/09


Gen. 1:14
And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,

This tells me that there were no seasons, days or years as we measure them until the "4th" day of Creation.
So how long were the "days" in the first 3 days of creation?
Obviously they weren't measured the same as the last 4.
Kath, loved your post sis!
---miche3754 on 9/10/09


Send a Free Special Occasion Ecard


//It is impossible to accurately translate that verse to accomodate billion-year evolution.

Totally incorrect, as what constituted a 'day' during the first 3 periods were totally different than what constituted the last 3 'days'.

You overlook the fact that the sun was created during the 4th period, and that subsequent 'days' were then based on the sun. Of course, I thought everyone that could read and think would realize that.

Further, there is no restriction on God not calling all those periods of possible unequal duration, 'days'.

What you are doing is forcing into the text your theology, however, the text does not support your ASSumptions.
---lee on 9/10/09


Job 38:4-7 tells us that when the foundation of the earth was laid, "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy."
The devil was "a murderer from the beginning" John 8:44. What beginning? It must refer to the beginning of the six-day creation.

If there is no gap and the devil was created on the first day of the six days of creation, he must have been created as a sinner.

But this is impossible for two reasons.
1st, this interpretation would make God the author of sin.

2nd, the Bible clearly states that the devil was perfect from his creation and that iniquity was not found in him until a later date **Ezekiel 28:15.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/09


The Bible is the enemy of atheistic evolution. The two cannot be harmonized. To clear up the matter for all with eyes to see, God wrote with His own finger in stone "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth" (Exo 20:11). It is impossible to accurately translate that verse to accomodate billion-year evolution. Those who attempt such are calling God a liar to His face. What can be the possible motive for such an outrage? Worship of another god, perhaps?
---jerry6593 on 9/10/09


Leon all Scripture is God given isn't it? It is all there, coming from God, for us, for a reason. There is no 'fat' in the word of God.

The hows and when of creation are vital for at least 2 reasons.

1) It is what God has written. How can any Christian either ignore it, say it is unimportant, or propose contrary views?

2) Secondly it is important as it shows the error, and the consequences of contrary views. The long-ages view undermines the gospel, see Romans 5:12,14, 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15:21,22, for example.

We are told to strongly oppose any idea which stands opposed to God's word and are given divine power to do so- 2 Co. 10:4.

How then can defending the truth of Genesis be a side-track?
---Warwick on 9/9/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bad Credit Loans


Read Genesis 1:1 in context with the whole chapter and you will see the earth was created initially without shape (form), empty (void) and dark. God next created light, then separated land and water.

The gap idea comes from the KJV Genesis 1:28 '...be fruitful amd multiply and replenish the earth.'-'replenish' being the problem. Four hundred years ago when the KJV was translated the Hebrew 'male' (fill) was translated correctly into English as 'replenish' which then meant fill, not refill. In the intervening centuries 'replenish' has changed to mean 'refill.' Modern translations have 'fill' in Genesis 1:28, which is correct.

Therfore there is no basis for this gap. It is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
---Warwick on 9/9/09


kathr4453/Boyd on9/9/09
Agreed.
Hebraic Thought:
*The hebrews weren't concerned about Time/Space.It was a abstract idea.
Time and space was seen as identical.
*The future is behind you,the past is in front of you.
Why?
your past is laid out infront of you,you can see it,known.
your future you can't see,therefore it's behind you,not known.
God alone knows the future,and has declared it to us.
Is46:9-10
Remember the former things of old,for God and none else,God none like Me,
Declaring the End from the Beginning,from ancient times that are not done,saying My counsel shall stand,I will do all My pleasure.
---char on 9/9/09


Boyd the long-ages idea comes from the evolutionary belief which is contrary to Scripture.

Evolutionists claim life evolved over countless ages, the fossil record being proof. The fossil record is a record of death, disease and struggle with the strong killing the weak. But Scripture says man was not made from any preexisting creature and death only entered the world after Adam's sin.

This long-ages idea undermines the gospel.

See Rom. 5:12,14, 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15: 21,22.

God called His finished creation 'very good.' Does death disease and suffering of the fossil record seem what our loving God would call 'very good?'
God is very clear about our origins so why accept anything else?
---Warwick on 9/9/09


Genesis 1 says: In the beginning God created the Heavens and earth. And the earth was without form and void and darkness fell upon the face of the deep.

Sounds to me like something very serious happened here between Genesis 1: 1 & 2.

Many do believe this could have been the result of Lucifer and 1/3 of the fallen angels that brought darkness.

Interestingly, we do have a parallel here.
When sin entered the world, DARKNESS fell again, but this time upon mankind. Jesus is now the LIGHT of the World.

It is possible that the original creation of earth itself may have been prior to the 7 days.
---kathr4453 on 9/9/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bankruptcy


There is a theory that a gap exists between Genesis 1 and 2. When Satan was cast to earth, he destroyed it. God came and restored earth by placing things where they were in the beginning. Thus the many years of earth's exixtence.
---Sandra on 9/9/09


Boyd: You sound like a man who is earnestly seeking Bible truth without a whole lot of rhetorically deviating filler. I admire & applaud your steadfast efforts. :)

Seems to me the devil has a great many souls going on a wild goose chase (side-tracked) with the how & when of creation. The real, more weighter issue is SALVATION (Gen. - Rev.). Of course, the devil doesn't want anyone (young or old) to find out (learn) how to be saved (born again).
---Leon on 9/9/09


Honestly, I'm not sure of the original question or where it's going.

I start with God. In the beginning. Thats it. Not exactly when "beginning" was, but its a good place to start. Lets start with this question. When is the beginning when all this got started? As some pointed out, the bible does not say. Just "in the beginning" And if you want to add the next word: God.
In the beginning God.
Expand on that a bit, go to John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word is God".
Then start the debate of creation.
And when you really think about it, does it really matter when? If the earth if 5 billion years old, great! I'm good with that.

Boyd
---Boyd on 9/9/09


\\Now just what do you find funny about that statement? Are you only here to laugh at Bible-believing Christians?\\

What makes you think that I don't believe the Bible?

Do you believe everything in the Bible?

How about where it clearly says that bats are birds?

Do you believe that?
---Cluny on 9/9/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Cash Advance


"Leon you take a defensive position..."

Again Warwick, I really think we agree from distinctly different points of view. :)

Cluny: For me it's best to go with what God says, in Scripture, He has done in creation rather than suppose (theorize) & attribute activity to God that's not found in the Bible.
---Leon on 9/9/09


Cluny you don't believe God is limited by literalistic (or any other) interpretation of Genesis.

God is limited, because, unlike humans, He always speaks Truth. Genesis 1 therefore is the Truth. It is not that believers take Scripture literally but take it at face value unless good reason not to exists. Nothing in Scripture contradicts Genesis 1, everything supports and confirms it.

Should you disagree give Scripture to support your belief.

Consider this sentence-'On the fourth day of our holiday it rained cats and dogs.' I doubt anyone would imagine the fourth day was not the fourth 24hr day, nor would they imagine dogs and cats were falling. Literature is clear if you don't approach it with foregone conclusions.
---Warwick on 9/9/09


cluny: "No! That would contradict the words of God written in the Bible, and we know from this book that God CANNOT lie!"

Now just what do you find funny about that statement? Are you only here to laugh at Bible-believing Christians?

Tell us straight out, do you believe the childish conjecture of a science fiction writer and a spiritualist over the Word of God?
---jerry6593 on 9/9/09


Jim you are so right, we need to 'water-proof' our children against what they will be taught by the world, and to answer their questions. 'Because He said so' definitely is counter-productive.

You only need to read what some Christians write here to see they were not given answers and have brought nonBiblical thinking into their faith with serious consequences. They have reinterpreted parts of Scripture totally out of all recognition.
---Warwick on 9/8/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


Roni,
Point being...
The Holy Spirit is Teacher.1Cor 2
Regardless,pray with your kids asking and trusting your Father will confirm.
Jn16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing,Verily,verily, I say unto you,Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name,He will give you.

Trust he will guide each of you right were you all are at.
Confirmation comes from the Holy Spirit.
1Jn 2:27-29
But the anointing which have recieved of Him abideth in you,and ye need not that any man teach you:
Jn 14,26
Eph4:4-7
---char on 9/8/09


Roni,
while kids have their studies,maybe you can have yours.Studing the Original Hebrew from the pictographic letters.
Hebrew thought is function,Greco Roman thought is abstract.
example:
anger-Hebrew word is aph:literal meaning is..'flaring of the nostrils in anger'...
this is a substance of action.
The Hebrew word for anger is...NOSE.
example:
'Bara'(create)
means fatten- by extenion it also means fill up.
Gen1:1
In bereshiyt-in summit(top or place or TIME),
elohim FILLED/FATTENED
the heaven and the earth...
(no TIME is specified).
Gen1...1-3 day of separation:
Light/darkness
water/sky
water/land
Gen1...4-6 day of filling
sun/moon
fish/birds
animal/people
---char on 9/8/09


I think that the debate has turned a bit away from the intended audience. If you read these posts how many are really pertinent to a high-schooler headed to biology tomorrow? You guys know A LOT about the bible, that is wonderful, but you need to focus on helping these kids and their parent. If super deep study of the bible doesn't help win others to Christ, then really what does it benefit? Let's stop flexing the intellectual muscles and give the kiddos an answer that makes sense to everyone in the room and can be proven at the next board meeting. We lose the debate when we play the God Card, because he said so doesn't work in Biology...but I guarantee you our beliefs can be proven, because it really happened.
---Jim on 9/8/09


\\No Cluny. If it were so, God would've said so. You can imagine it's so if you, etc., so badly want to believe that. However, God has devinely authored Scripture in such a way He constantly reinterates & builds upon previously given info (line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept) throughout the Bible for our understanding & benefit. The Bible mentions no big bang, or anything like it, during Creation.\\

I don't believe that God is limited by your own (or mine or anyone else's) literalistic (or any other) interpretation of Genesis.
---Cluny on 9/8/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Leon you take a defensive position. I take a defensive and offensive position. Christians must be Biblically literate, but when speaking in different countries, I am continually confronted by young people whose faith is being undermined by the evolutionary indoctrination they are subjected to at school/university. They want answers but are given no answers, often told-Just have faith!

2 Peter 3:15 says to give the reason for the hope we have. 'Just have faith' is not a 'reason.'

2 Corinthians 10:4 is absolutely clear, we are to demolish any idea which opposes the knowledge of God. We are given 'divine power' to do so.

Romans 1:20 shows that God's physical creation itself is a testimony against worldly ideas.
---Warwick on 9/8/09


Thank you JIM for having the temerity to actually answer and respond to the question.
You are right about carbon dating which shows even dinosaurs were here just thousands of years ago.
Scientists cannot tolerate creation so they use potassium and other chemicals to explain the theory of billions of years. Secular science own tests show swings in testing of the same fossils of millions of years and this is never questioned.
And if you believed man was born at Lucy it would take our current population, minus the flood, to the tenth power.
So if you want to show the school its wrong Google everything you can get in relation to carbon dating.
---larry on 9/8/09


"If you think you're being witty, you're half right."
Cluny on 9/8/09

Classic. Thanks for the chuckle.
---scott on 9/8/09


Warwick: Argumentative, definitely not. That would be counter-productive. However, I do believe we can respectfully reason together. :)

I firmly believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17. I believe we're to actively oppose any world philosphy just like Jesus did, i.e., IT IS WRITTEN..." (Matt. 4:3-10)

We can't stand toe-to-toe & fight the devil in our own strength. That's exactly what the devil would have us to do.

It's wise to be knowlegeable as to what a debate is about & know the overall facts concerning such. I think it's unfruitful to debate agents of the devil, about cosmic & spiritual realities, using worldly (carnal) weapons (words & ideas). (2 Cor. 10:3-5)

---Leon on 9/8/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


"No chance that the Big Bang was God's mechanism, is there?"

No Cluny. If it were so, God would've said so. You can imagine it's so if you, etc., so badly want to believe that. However, God has devinely authored Scripture in such a way He constantly reinterates & builds upon previously given info (line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept) throughout the Bible for our understanding & benefit. The Bible mentions no big bang, or anything like it, during Creation.

Ditto Jerry!
---Leon on 9/8/09


//My kids are being taught in school that the earth was created billions of years ago.

As to how old the earth is, can only be a subject of debate even among scientists. However, we do know the speed of light and can calculate that some of God's creation is hundreds of light years away.

What the creationists fails to understand that the Creator is not bound by our laws of physics or by our concept of time.

The earth could have existed eons of time prior to the creation of its sun.

There is nothing in the Bible that tells us that the 'day' of the first 3 periods of creation, was not a different 'day' than the last 3 periods of creation.
---lee on 9/8/09


\\
C-looney: "No chance that the Big Bang was God's mechanism, is there?"

No! That would contradict the words of God written in the Bible, and we know from this book that God CANNOT lie!\\

Why? You've offered no evidence.

In any case, if you think you're being witty, you're half right.
---Cluny on 9/8/09


Leon I am not trying to be argumentative but to understand. Are you saying you believe 2 Co. 10:4,5 is an option?

'The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.'

Doesn't that mean we are to actively oppose any philosophy which sets itself up against the knowledge of God?
---Warwick on 9/8/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


C-looney: "No chance that the Big Bang was God's mechanism, is there?"

No! That would contradict the words of God written in the Bible, and we know from this book that God CANNOT lie!

Of course, if you would rather believe the word of a science fiction writer (George Gamow, inventor of the Big Bang) and that of a necromancer (Emmmanuel Swendenborg, who received the nebular hypothesis theory in a seance), then go right ahead. But don't expect any Bible-believing Christian to go along with you.
---jerry6593 on 9/8/09


Warwick: I think we agree, just from distinctly different points of view. :)
---Leon on 9/7/09


\\ Cluny: The difference between Gen. 1 & the Big Bang Theory is "God". Genesis acknowledges God as the Creator of all things. But the BBT give God no recognition or credit at all. Do "you" get the difference so far?\\

No chance that the Big Bang was God's mechanism, is there?
---Cluny on 9/7/09


1stCliff, you are back!

You disappeared when I contradicted your story about the church fathers beliefs regarding the length of the days of creation. But now you are back, having ducked giving any answer or justification for your post. Why am I not surprized?

I will be very happy to comment upon your latest post when you address your error as regards Philo, Basil, Josephus and his mates!
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


I don't think that is good enough Leon. If anyone sincerely ask for answers I give them, if able. History shows countless young people have lost their Christian faith at school and university as no one was willing or able to answer their questions about evolution etc.

It is also not Scriptural, see 2 Co. 10:4,5. 'The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.'

Speak for truth and oppose lies!
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Cluny: The difference between Gen. 1 & the Big Bang Theory is "God". Genesis acknowledges God as the Creator of all things. But the BBT give God no recognition or credit at all. Do "you" get the difference so far?

By the way, it's amusing but not at all surprising the learned scientist you referenced didn't get it (were clueless). How can that be? :) Hmmm!
---Leon on 9/6/09


For a high school student, there is a wealth of information out there that is scientific and does support the bible's time line of events. Carbon dating has been proven to be a very inexact science despite many mis-informed teachers beliefs to the contrary. I would challenge your children to find the scientific data to support their beliefs. Christians should not be afraid of debate, but they should also be armed with the facts that the world must accept. Nothing is more fun than presenting a very factual argument to the contrary of the evolution chapter in the textbook. What greater witness in a room full of peers than that?
---Jim on 9/6/09


Cluny:

Bible: Earth before sun and stars. Evolution: Stars and sun before earth.

Bible: Earth covered in water initially. Evolution: Earth molten blob initially

Bible: Oceans first then dry land. Evolution: Dry land then oceans

Bible:Life first created on land. Evolution:Life started in oceans.

Bible: Plants created before the sun. Evolution: Plants came long after sun.

Bible: Fish and birds created together. Evolution: Fish formed long before birds.

Bible: Land animals created after birds. Evolution: land animals before whales.

Bible: Man and dinosaurs lived together. Evolution: Dinosaurs extinct long before man appeared.

Bible: big bang future. Evolution: big bang past.
---Warwick on 9/7/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


c-luny: "Any difference so far?" You seem to imply that the Big Bang was a supernatural event. Doesn't sound very scientific. Maybe it was just magic, like the impossible spontaneous generation of life on this planet. Oh I know you would like to couch these events in a scientific term like "singularity," But the fact is, that without God, all you have is magic. God said that He did it and He told us how He did it in just six days. What's wrong with that? You don't need magic to believe in God - just faith.
---jerry6593 on 9/7/09


\\Some children at church are in their first year of high-school, being taught evolution/big-bang/long-ages as fact.\\

Let's see.

Genesis 1 says that, regarding the physical universe, there was Nothing, and then there was Something.

Big bang says that, regarding he physical universe, there was Nothing, and then there was Something.

Any difference so far?

BTW--did you know that many scientists rejected the Big Bang model PRECISELY because it smacked of creationism?
---Cluny on 9/6/09


Warwick, Explain Gen.1.26. "Rule (or have dominion) over the creatures"
If they weren't meant to be eaten, what's to "rule over ?" How y' gonna rule over chickens,deer, geese,insects,tuna, etc..
If they were never meant to be eaten why would Jesus feed "fish" to the multitude??
Do you eat the thanksgiving turkey?? ham and eggs? Big mac??
The Israelite diet included meat..God says He doesn't change...this is a BIG change huh?
Tending (or ruling over) animals sometimes requires "culling" when necessary!
A little more intelligence needed here,y' think?
---1st_cliff on 9/6/09


Warwick: It's right to be concerned about the well-being of the children. But, as you've said they're well versed in Scripture. So, keep them built up & nourished in God's Truth.

If we Christian parents & the church community did our very best to throughly equip our children with the gospel Truth, the devil's lies (in the schools, etc.) wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Instead, he'd slitter off on his belly & disappear under a rock. (Jas. 4:7-8)

Our children don't need for us to explain darkness to them. The world does that very well. Our children need for us to walk in the Light (Jn. 8:12), encourage & show them how to do the same. The focus should always be on the Truth, not the lie.

---Leon on 9/6/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


Leon, thanks for the clarification.

Some children at church are in their first year of high-school, being taught evolution/big-bang/long-ages as fact. They are well versed in Scripture and can see these 'facts' contradict Scripture, and are rightly concerned. I can show them these issues are part of a nonBiblical/antiBiblical belief system, not proven fact. Should I just ignore their concerns and leave them without answers?

How can long-ages/evolution be a non-issue when it undermines the gospel? If these beliefs are true (as many Christians accept)then the NT writers were wrong about the entry of sin into the world, that which they say is the foundation for the gospel. What else did they get wrong? Salvation itself?
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Cluny, but let us stick to the point, that the long/ages/evolutionary belief places death of animals and humans in the world before sin. However the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, our creator and Redeemer, bases His Gospel upon Adam's sin being what brought death into the world. Interestingly Jesus asked (John 3:12) how can you trust what I say about heavenly things if you don't believe what I say about earthly things? Do you believe what He says about earthly things Cluny?

Death before sin contradicts His word. See Romans 5:12,14, 6:23, 1 Co. 15:21,22 undermining the gospel.
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Warwick, Why not consider the context when concluding that creatures never died before sin?
Scripture says "death spread to all MEN" not creatures.
The mayfly's life span is 24hrs.
Immediately after the fall God kills animals to clothe the pair , you're saying that He caused the 1st death? That now that Adam had sinned it's OK to kill?
Something wrong with that picture!
---1st_cliff on 9/6/09


Warwick: I understand your stand & didn't think for a moment you supported the long-ages belief. However, if you think it's an issue, okay. :) I'm at a stage in life where I strongly believe in cutting to the chase. As a junior-senior citizen, I don't have time for all the fruitless debates we humans constantly engage in to no end. I see it as a serious waste of time. Like Detective Sergeant Joe Friday, I'm looking for just the facts. As you know, God's word (the Bible) is choke full of truth (facts). Likewise, the world is overflowing with lies.

God bless! :)
---Leon on 9/6/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


\\ Even if we leave aside the assumption there were rabbits and tigers in the beginning I do believe Scripture says there was no death of animals and humans before Adam's sin. \\

Are you saying that rabbits and tigers came AFTER the Fall?

This is nothing more or less than evolution!

Or are you saying that today's carnivores were originally vegetarian?

This still would be evolution. Furthermore, the plants they would have eaten before the fall still died as a result of being consumed.
---Cluny on 9/6/09


Even if we leave aside the assumption there were rabbits and tigers in the beginning I do believe Scripture says there was no death of animals and humans before Adam's sin.

Genesis 1 shows man and animals were given plant life to eat therefore I believe it rational to consider God was not talking of the death of plant-life.

However let us imagine death in Scripture refers only to humans. Some on these pages believe man was around for many milennia before Adam. They must have died, therefore death was here before sin. This is contrary to what Romans 5:12,14, 6:23, 1 Co. 15:21,22 etc say, and it undermines the gospel.
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Leon I am not sure but you seem to think I believe in nonBiblical long-ages. I don't, just the opposite, I believe God's word.

The NT tells us Jesus came to die because of what Adam did. That Adam sinned bringing death into the world. The 'wages of sin is death' and Jesus came to pay this price for us, upon the cross.

1 Co. 12:26 says death is the last enemy to be destroyed. If the long-ages believers are correct ( but they aren't) death has been here as long as life. How can it then be an enemy?

This nonBiblical long-ages idea undermines the gospel. No Christian should believe it. I hope I have made myself clear?

I was writing to show the long-ages belief is not a 'non-issue' as you had written.
---Warwick on 9/6/09


Warwick: Who's belief is the, "long-ages belief."? What's its origin? That's where you start.

Is it the Gospel truth, according to the word of God, or is it just another lie the devil is subtly trying to blow your mind (destroy your soul) with?

Whatever this belief is, it can only undermine the Gospel if you let it into your mind to do so. I believe Christians would do well not to waste time with such bone of contention theories/fables.

Again, the more weightier, real issue is God's plan of SALVATION in Jesus Christ as explained from Genesis thru Revelation.
---Leon on 9/5/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


You should let them form their own beliefs.
---amand6348 on 9/5/09


\\
Leon, the long-ages belief places death in the world before sin. However the NT says death entered the world only after Adam's sin. How can this be a side-issue? This 'side-issue' undermines the historical basis of the gospel. \\

Are you saying that before Adam's fall, rabbits didn't die when tigers ate them?

Or the fruit and herbage didn't die when Adam or even birds ate them?

I think the "death" being discussed here applies strictly to humankind in either (or both) the physical and spiritual orders.
---Cluny on 9/5/09


Leon, the long-ages belief places death in the world before sin. However the NT says death entered the world only after Adam's sin. How can this be a side-issue? This 'side-issue' undermines the historical basis of the gospel.

See:
Rom. 5:12 '...sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned,' Also vs 14.

Romans 6:23 'for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.'

1 Corinthians 15: 21,22 'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive.'
---Warwick on 9/5/09


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.