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Meaning Of Born Again

When Jesus speaks of being born again, does being born of water mean water baptism or physical birth?

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 ---wendi on 9/4/09
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Kathr, God does not need me to judge and defend the gospel. In fact, He does not need anything from anyone. Not even your finite love, for He is self-contained, self-sufficient, self-satisfied in need of nothing. The creating of all His creation when He did, added nothing to God essentially.
What I do in giving the Truth is my committment as a believer, to work where He is working already, so that God can bring light to His word to those whom He wants for them to learn. Right now it is not for you or Nana, because if it was you would have known the God of the Bible by now, but maybe His Truth is not for you are him. Maybe never will be. I stay out of that part, and only do what is in my heart, to show you who the real God of the Bible is.
---MarkV. on 9/22/09


Alan and Kathr, there is no amount of truth that will ever be good enough for either one of you at least for this moment in time. I don't want to say there is no hope in you ever understanding the Truth of God sovereign right to choose whom He pleases whenever He please, but then I am not God and cannot possibly know if you ever will or not. It is up to God. MarkV***


Yes, God chose Jacob?ISRAEL to be His Chosen People bringing in Jesus Christ. You MarkV base your being chosen on those grounds...YET God divorced Israel. On what grounds do you believe YOU won't be divorced, since you claim you are Jacob's descendent, and not called through Isaac will thy seed be called?

---kathr4453 on 9/22/09


Surely a servant of the Lord should not bear false wirness?
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/21/09


Nana, I am not a judge or jury. I am a servant for the Lord and for His Word. You get personal with me because you do not agree with the Truth that I present to you. I don't ever want to get personal with you. I sometimes miss the mark, for I am not perfect. But my reasons and intentions are for the Lord, and everyday I ask Him to help me because without Him I am nothing. I accept that fact.
You can continue to get personal, make remarks, and say what you feel in your heart to say. But it is not for the Lord, but for your own personal feelings. There is many others here speaking Truth, but they give that Truth their own way. Shawn, Donna, and many others have done a great job. They don't need my praise but I thank them for their loyalty.
---MarkV. on 9/21/09


Jesus acts as our lawyer, pleading our case before the Father.
MarkV acts as God's lawyer, pleading his case before men.
God being Sovereign, why does he need a defense attorney?
---Nana on 9/21/09

OH Nana, You just made my day!

What MarkV may want to realize is that Genesis to Revelation (Alpha/Omega, Beginning/ End First/ Last isn't about MarkV's election, but about God's plan of Salvation through Jesus Christ ALONE....not Allah or Buddah, or the RCC/i>,or what Joseph Smith says or John Calvin says, but what GOD SAID!!!!

---kathr4453 on 9/21/09




Jesus acts as our lawyer, pleading our case before the Father.
MarkV acts as God's lawyer, pleading his case before men.
God being Sovereign, why does he need a defense attorney?
---Nana on 9/21/09


MarkV ... You said "you have been against the Sovereign right for God to be Ruler of His creation".

That and your many previous claims that I deny the Sovereignty of God, is a gross fabrication ... A LIE.

The fact is that I believe God is SO GREAT A SOVEREIGN that He gives FreeWill, and is not bound to the role of a puppet-master.

I don't mind you not agreeing with that.

But I do mind you debasing our discussion with your LIES & don't like to think of you losing any respect we might have for you ... for lose respect you will when you resort to LIES.

So stop the LIES, and you may regain our respect
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/20/09


Alan, what you call a lie is the Truth and you just refuse to admit it. When you say you can choose Christ while lost with what you call free will whenever you want to, you are saying that God does not rule you. Yet if it was not for God you would still be heading for hell. You cannot muster up saving faith, you cannot make yourself spiritually alive, you cannot even repent unless God grants you repentance, for all facts and purposes the Bible says, you cannot do nothing without Me." and you say you can. You are the one lying. You suggest God is not ruler of His creation, for you are a part of that creation. You are saying also, I will love Him if I want to love Him or not, so who is ruler of your life? You. A simple fact, not a lie.
---Mark_V on 9/20/09


All men born in Adam are born with the sin nature, and because they bear a sin nature, they are all damned to hell. It is our sin in Adam and that nature we bear because of that, that condemns all men to hell. As all men go to hell, God, in His marvelous grace, saves some. The rest are damned, but not simply because of the sin in Adam, but primarily because of the sin of unbelief. "You are condemned already because you believe not" John 3:
Rom. 1 say's, "that God has revealed Himself to such a degree that everyone is responsible for the revelation. And that's why the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness, because when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God.
---MarkV. on 9/19/09


Alan and Kathr, there is no amount of truth that will ever be good enough for either one of you at least for this moment in time. I don't want to say there is no hope in you ever understanding the Truth of God sovereign right to choose whom He pleases whenever He please, but then I am not God and cannot possibly know if you ever will or not. It is up to God.
I believe the question you should have ask is why would God choose some and not all to be saved?
The basic answer is because He got more glory for His own name by doing it the way He did it. God does what He does for His glory. And somehow, in some way, God is glorified in what He did, and that's why He did it I suppose, because God never makes a mistake.
---MarkV. on 9/19/09




Mark .. You are really letting yuorself down now by your continuous piling of insult upon insult.

And still I ask you to explain the contradiction in your statements, and still yuo refuse to answer.

Will you withdraw your lie: "you have been against the Sovereign right for God to be Ruler of His creation" ???

Will you??
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/18/09


Alan, it is not perhaps that you are answering me. It's real. God did not put you there to make comments against me, that's your choice. He allowed or permitted you to do that. He did not make you as He does not make men sin, they do it because they want to, for God judges in every person, for their motives. MarkV***


MarkV, now you are answering Alan the way you answered me. You us US as an example placing YOURSELF as a Sovereign God we choose to SIN against because YOU can do and say anything you like..AKA MarkV version of Sovereignty.

Again MarkV, YOU are not Sovereign, you are not GOD, and your explination here STINKS of selfrighteousness! MarkV, are you ELOY?
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


MarkV ... you say to me: "If you find that you are confuse at the Truth of what I write ... "

No MarkV, I am not always confused at the "Truth" of what you write ... for sometimes there is NO TRUTH there.

For example, you say (as you have claimed several times before) "Alan, since I met you, you have been against the Sovereign right for God to be Ruler of His creation"

MarkV, you KNOW that is a complete fabrication.

That's worse than the insults that Kathr talks about. Insults are just pig-ignorant rudeness. Fabrication is deliberate Ly--g.

That's a sin, brother.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/18/09


Kathr, you say to me,
"MarkV, why do you have to answer people's questions with insults?"MarkV



MarkV, I asked a simple question. You did not answer the question. Alan asked you a question and you answered him with an insult rather than answering the question. You seem to have a way of NOT answering peoples questions who have GOOD QUESTIONS.

So stop blaming me for your insulting answer to Alan.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


Alan, it is not perhaps that you are answering me. It's real. God did not put you there to make comments against me, that's your choice. He allowed or permitted you to do that. He did not make you as He does not make men sin, they do it because they want to, for God judges in every person, for their motives.
He did not make you a complainer, it is your choice. He did not make you able to drink beer with your friends at the pub, and turn around and say its ok, that was also your choice. He permits people to function, but when it comes to salvation, He is able to make anyone come to Christ by drawing them to Himself. Believe it or not, it is written for I have given God's Word to you. What you do with it is your choice.
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


Alan, again it was your choice not God's. You are responsible for what you do. Don't turn your responsibilities and motives and blame God for them, you are responsible, your actions comes from your flesh. And you will be judge by your actions and motives, as well as me. What you call arrogance and lack of love, is what is in your heart, your discription of what love is. In my heart there is only love for you, Miche, Kathr, and everyone on line. Even Athiest I love. I cannot stop loving you no matter how much you complain, my kids complain and I still love them the same. I cannot help what they think either.
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


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Kathr, you say to me,
"MarkV, why do you have to answer people's questions with insults?"
I believe that is all that I have gotten from you from the beginning. You were ok with me so long as I agreed with you, but when I brought up the right for God to choose whom He pleases, you begin attacking Calvin, his teachings, the reform teachings from great man in history, when you have not had those teachings, but have gotten tips here and there from different people who are oppose to the teachings and in favor of the RCC teachings concerning salvation.
I have tried to love you Kathr, but you will not let me. But there is nothing wrong with my spiritual discernment, you do have another motive then I do.
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


MarkV .. You have said:

"God chooses those He will save" & that we don't have FreeWill.

&

"Miche, salvation is offered to everyone"

Now, it would be dishonest for God to offer salvation to even a single person, if He has determined beforehand that that person will not be able to accept the offer

You betray yourself by refusing to explain the apparent incompatibilty of your 2 statements, instead resorting to insult (Thank you Kathr & Miche)

And yet again, because I suggest God is greater than you imagine, you come up with the lie that I deny He is Sovereign.

Perhaps God has put me here to point out your arrogance and lack of love.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/18/09


Alan, I have done all that I can with God's Truth concerning you. You have a choice now Alan, listen to what I have said, go back and check every word that I said, look it up in Scripture, check to see for yourself if what I write is truth, except it if you want or reject it if you want. If you find that you are confuse at the Truth of what I write, please don't ask me to unconfuse you, for I do not have that power no matter how many times you ask me to answer you again and again.
Whatever decision you make, God already knows. If He wants you to know it you will know it whether you like it or not. For it is His will that is done on earth as it is in heaven.
Peace I leave you.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


Alan, I do ascribe motive. Let me say why. When a person does not understand something about God, they ask the question. If they find something that does not sound correct, they give passages or verses why. They will say, "look here Mark, I see where God says you are mistaken because His word says, so and so" but no Alan, since I met you, you have been against the Sovereign right for God to be Ruler of His creation. Then you say, "now you are accusing me of" over and over Alan. It is as if I am speaking to one of my grandchildren and not an adult who truely loves the Lord with all of his heart and soul and wants nothing more then to learn all there is about Him.
This is not a game to make you happy. It's about God.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


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Mark ... again you ascribe motive to my inability to understand what you are saying. That's not fair, 'cos you don't know my mind.

I've said I find two of your statements contradictory. I've asked you to clarify, but as on other things, you seem disinclined to clarify

I find it very difficult to understand why, in Christian love, you don't try to explain for me. It's as if you don't want to make yourself clear to me.

As you regard it as such an important point, I am surprised that you don't want to help me understand.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/17/09


He means to be born with a new spirit. It's the same concept of renewing your mind. Removing the sinful person of the flesh, and becoming holy person in the spirit of God.
---Roland on 9/17/09


He means to be born with a new spirit. It's the same concept of renewing your mind. Removing the sinful person of the flesh, and becoming holy person in the spirit of God.
---Roland on 9/17/09


MarkV, why do you have to answer people's questions with insults?

What YOU do is INSULT the PERSON, who questions you.

MarkV, if your explaination is MUDDLED, and you feel you are ABOVE being questioned , even when you use your own words (not in scripture) changing the meaning.....we ALL have a right and obligation to QUESTION you.

You know, WOF also re-aranges the WORD of God to say what it doesn't say.


I would like to petition CN to either correct your attitude towards others or ban you entirely from CN until you settle down and give Christ Like replies.

Many of us here are TIRED of being called BLIND, STUPID, and LOST, TARES, the devils children because we don't SEE what you see!
---kathr4453 on 9/17/09


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Markv,

You started out the same way as all the people your are judging right now, do you realize that?
Do you realize that God DOES ask us to do something when it comes to salvation?
He says believe what I say!
Does the Holy Spirit make you believe?
Not in the beginning. You don't receive the Holy Spirit until after you believe!
Believing God is a choice.
whether you know it or not, God's word appeals to the breath of Life he put into everyone of us. There is none living that God didn't breath life into.
condemnation to repent is brought By the sword of God. Whats that Sword? The Word! they can't come to God without hearing his truth first. Then they can choose to believe or not. Why do you deny God's truth?
---miche3754 on 9/17/09


MarkV Why do yuo not accept that there is (or that I find) an apparent contradcition between your two statements.

And why will yuo not try to explain.

So many times I have said that your statements don't make sense (to me at least) and you make absolutely no attempt to clarify.

I wonder why you make no attempt to help me understand?

Don't yuo have the answer?
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/17/09


Alan, you are always muddling yourself. That is not a surprise. What you are looking for is fault in the messege, instead of the Truth. When your intentions change you might get the messege. And then again God might not want you to get that messege.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


And Grace is freely given to all who would receive it.
"God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Jesus said they hear BUT don't believe.
Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear, then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy, and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

Both of these people heard but neither was saved. Why? because the enemy is like a lion seeking whom he may devour!
---miche3754 on 9/17/09


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The lost don't choose Christ, because they cannot go against their fallen nature. Salvation is open for them if they wanted to, but they don't want to. They don't want to because they are spiritually dead. The wages of sin is death. God said on the day that you eat you will surely die. All descendants of Adam are found spiritually dead, separated from God. His nature is man centered not God centered. He has lost his holiness, and pride and self will are now his works. His interest is not in God or anything spiritual, instead of opening a Bible to seek God, he goes to a pub, (U.K. talk) and drinks a few beers with friends. His fallen nature makes him encapable of knowing and experiencing God. That is why man needs to be born again, of the Spirit.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


Second 2:
A good example of someone lost, blind, and not able to hear clealy, or even understand can be discribe as an Embreo in the mothers womb. It lives and moves just like the lost, has eyes but cannot see, has ears but cannot hear clearly, cannot understand what is outside the womb. He is blinded and controlled by the water his is in. The water is the veil. He needs to be born in order for him to began to see, hear and understand.
Jesus told Nicodemus, "Do not marvel that I said to you, you must be born again." This conversion removes the veil, opens the eyes and ears and brings understanding to the word of God in order for the convert to have a relationship with Christ.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


(and of course you also say elsehwere that, although people cannot choose salvation, they are still guilty for not choosing it!)
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/16/09

This is exactly what I don't get.
It is not biblical.
God says he gives man the choice.
God says he sent Jesus for the purpose of salvation to ALL mankind.
Jesus says if they will just believe him, God will take care of the rest. Jesus says that is why God sent the Holy Spirit- to teach us all things spiritual.
God says NONE are born good, so how can the Holy Spirit come to someone that doesn't believe Jesus?
Paul addresses carnal Christians that they must listen and learn from the Holy Spirit the things of God. (1 Cornithians chapter 3)
---miche3754 on 9/17/09


Being born of water means physical human birth. Being born again means change of direction. Before being born-again, the person lives as the world, people, cultures, feelings, mind & flesh instructs. At the point of being born again the person decides to follow Jesus & His instructions onwards and continue to live therein.
---Adetunji on 9/16/09


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Miche, I will only post the passage, "Even so then, at the present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of work, otherwise grace is no longer grace...what then? Israel has not obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written. "God has given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see. And ear's that they should not hear to this very day" Their free wills meant nothing to God. The remnant God has reserved it by grace. They did not do anything to get it, for if they did then it would not be grace. From beginning to end it was an act of God, not man.
---MarkV. on 9/16/09


MarkV ... you say "Miche, salvation is offered to everyone, that's why they are found guilty"

But Mark, this is the opposite of what you have been saying elsewhere, that God chooses those He will save.

If you are not muddled yuorself, you certainly muddle me!

(and of course you also say elsehwere that, although people cannot choose salvation, they are still guilty for not choosing it!)
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/16/09


She wants to confuse the messege, separating God from Christ as two different persons or essence, and yet she knows and hears the messege. The same is with the lost.
---MarkV. on 9/16/09


Well MarkV, Jesus is the son of God, the 2nd person of the TRINITY, who became FLESH and dwelt among us.

You are now bordering on new-age. GOD the Father did not die, Nor did the Holy Spirit...Jesus in the flesh did.

You are now making references denying that CHRIST Messiah came in the flesh or that there was any need to.

To have any KNOWLEDGE is to KNOW the fellowship of His Sufferings of Christ and the Power of HIS Resurrection. Your knowledge is nothing more that arrogant condescending Gnosticism!
---kathr4453 on 9/16/09


Miche, salvation is offered to everyone, that's why they are found guilty. Man also has a choice, but they don't want to. Inside their hearts is corruption, rebellion, against God. Something has to change them, and that is the Holy Spirit. But only when God shows mercy.
- markv

God showed his mercy mark.
He gave his only begotten son.
We can't go to God except through Christ and to get to Christ we must be told the truth.
If man didn't want to, I would not be saved and I am sure others on this site would say the same. God calls us to repentence through the truth. He sanctifies us by this and HIS WORD is TRUTH.
Please don't talk about Kath like that because she is telling the truth.
---miche3754 on 9/16/09


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Miche, salvation is offered to everyone, that's why they are found guilty. Man also has a choice, but they don't want to. Inside their hearts is corruption, rebellion, against God. Something has to change them, and that is the Holy Spirit. But only when God shows mercy.
Here is an example of what I mean. Kathrine has a choice like the one God mentions, but she chooses to reject the Truth when its in front of her, so her intentions are not for God but for her rebellious heart. She say's I never mention Jesus, who does she think Jesus is? He is God. She wants to confuse the messege, separating God from Christ as two different persons or essence, and yet she knows and hears the messege. The same is with the lost.
---MarkV. on 9/16/09


MarkV on anther blog:

"Paul, WAS NOT Born Again first...."Kathr4453

MarkV said:
You speak of spiritual things you do not understand as always. You cannot possibly know if Paul was born again or not at any time. Because you are a sinful creature. Only God can. Because He does the work. Rebirth is not the same as endwelling by the Holy Spirit. The drawing of God to Himself brings life to the spiritually dead person. God then gives His Spirit to the new rebirth. And so comes under the Covenant of Grace. MarkV

Miche, MarkV's does not even acknowledge Jesus here at all!

God CANNOT draw you to Himself except THROUGH Christ,at Calvary, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh...representing His death!
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


Either way, if you comprehend this water to be the water at a infant's birth, or else water at a person's water baptism, they are both insufficient: because the subject of the passage is becoming born from the Holy Spirit, of which any whom refuse this will not be able to enter holy heaven without him. You see Nicodemus was a religious leader, and therefore probably already had baptism and was following the O.T. commandments, but Jesus replied, your performings are insufficient to God for you need to be Born-Again of the Water AND The Holy SPirit. Thus water baptism without the Spirit is insufficient, and also water at physical childbirth without the Spirit is insufficient.
---Eloy on 9/15/09


Im glad you are praying for me.
the reason I don't receive everything you say is because it doesn't always line up with God's word.
You believe that a person can't be saved UNLESS the Holy Spirit comes through them WITHOUT God's WORD- not true.
You state that God will only save those that he created to be saved!- not true. Salvation is offered to all of mankind. Its when you come into Christ that you are even predestinated/elected to be saved. Without Christ, you are NOTHING.
When you are born through your mother you are born into iniquity. Its only through Christ that you become alive.
Kath is right, it seems like you are trying to preach that you can have salvation without Christ!
---miche3754 on 9/15/09


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Born Again=QUICKENED:

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 15:36
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Cor15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

In the Greek the word "quicken" is translated "zoopoieo" which means to: vitalize, make alive, give life.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


Miche, I am not almost right, I am right. I would never be teaching something wrong.MarkV***

OK ELOY!!!




Herein lies MarkV's PRIDE. PRIDE really is a thorn in the flesh...as we no longer live after the flesh anyway.

Let your yeas be yeas, and nays be nays.

And we are NOT to think more highly of ourselves then we ought.

MarkV is saying he has completely GROWN in the grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ, having no more room to GROW!

MarkV believes himself to have ALL Knowledge and truth. MarkV is not here to learn anything from anyone else.

MarkV is here to force Calvin Propaganda on you...seering your conscience from God as he wants to be your conscience.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


Miche, I am not almost right, I am right. I would never be teaching something wrong. It's a matter of what the Spirit reveals to me and He reveals to me to do a lot of work and to study hard. I am not pulling for a denomination or for certain people, but to bring Truth and from there it is up to God to do as He will's in the life of others with His Word. You see, I do believe His will will be done, not the individuals will.
I cannot change one heart, not even mine. Only God can do that to an individual. That is why when I pray I pray His will be done in you, me and others. Take the messege, read, and if you don't like it, reject it. It is your choice.
---MarkV. on 9/15/09


1 Peter 3:21 AGAIN:
......by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

True Baptism is being baptized into His Death and raised a NEW CREATION in Christ. This is what Peter is telling us in this verse.

We are saved by His Risen Life in us. BUT one MUST be baptized into His Death FIRST. The Flood, with water, represents our baptism....buried with Him into death and raised up a New Creation. This was not the same baptism John the Baptist proclaimed.

Jesus Baptism is with FIRE. The fire BURNS away the chaff of the flesh, and NEW LIFE springs forth. Just look at nature with a seed and fire.

Unless a seed fall to the ground and die....1st Cor 15
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


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Born of water = physical birth. Born again = spiritual birth (being birthed by God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit).
---Leslie on 9/14/09


1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten AKA Birthed/Born Again us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
br>
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


The New Birth/Born Again is ONLY by the resurrection of Jesus Christ!!!!
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


Markv,
I enjoyed your last post. It was almost spot on.
The washing of the feet is to also symbolize the fact that even though we have been "washed allover" By Christ, we still have to alk in this world till we die. And we can get "contaminated a little" from time to time. So, it is good to have the Holy Spirit wash us to remove any spots we might get while still walking in this world.
Remember, "advocate if we happen to sin".

To be born of water DOES mean to be born of woman. To put on flesh. We can't receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE we become flesh BUT after.
1 Corinthians 15:45-47
---miche3754 on 9/15/09


"I'm only going by what your previous posts SEEM to say you believe."
Donna66 on 9/12/09

Donna66, whatever it may SEEM to you, that you read, must be taken with a grain of salt.
Go and find the "Demon Caused Diseases" blog and read my last comment to you.

There you said, "Just so you won't be left to wonder
...Acts 8:9-24 (I just looked this up)"

and went on to butcher the story.
---Nana on 9/14/09


Born of water = physical birth. Born again = spiritual birth (being birthed by God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit).
---Leslie on 9/14/09


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Donna, here is my take on John 13:10.
First, while others remained silent concerning Jesus washing his feet, Peter spoke up in indignation that Jesus would stoop so low as to wash his feet, he failed to see beyond the humble service to the symbolism of spiritual cleansing involved v.7 1 John 1:7-9). Jesus response made the real point of His actions clear, "unless the Lamb of God cleanses a person's sin (as portrayed in the symbolism of washing), one can have no part of Him."
The cleansing that Christ does at salvation never needs to be repeated-atonement is complete at that point. But all who have been cleanse by God gracious justification need constant washing, spiritually, sinse they battle sin in the flesh.
---MarkV. on 9/13/09


Nana,

I'm not claiming I know fully what you believe. I'm only going by what your previous posts SEEM to say you believe.
YES, I was inviting your comments (tho I was speculating that you would disagree with me) as well as the comments from anyone else who has some thoughts about this verse.
---Donna66 on 9/12/09


Born again was for people believing in Jesus before the doctrine of "New Creation" was promulgated through Paul. We are not born again, we are completely recreated. Thank the Lord for that. I needed it!
---mugwump on 9/12/09


Donna66,
You may never imagine, nor realize what I believe. In that you are not alone, yet I am not alone if but from you only. Are you inviting me to tell you what I believe or just interested in feeding an audience in speaking of me in the third person?
---Nana on 9/11/09


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I don't imagine nana will agree, but the scripture John 13:10: "... He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit ..." says to me that once one is born-again, his sins are like dirty feet...in need of washing (repentance). But as a blood bought child of God he never again needs the complete bath of regeneration.
---Donna66 on 9/11/09


John 13:10: "... He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit ..."
John 15:3: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."

Does the word clean the soul by and by, and water does the same?
They don't. Neither Simon Magus, nor some Pharisees and Scribes, were cleansed by water or by the word.

"And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." Hearing first, then learning through understanding and acceptance. See also, Isaiah 1:16-19, as to what is there to be learned.

Therefore, I agree with Shawn.M.T. The rest are stuck in unfounded tradition or sheer speculation.
---Nana on 9/11/09


Well said Anon!
---Leon on 9/9/09


Born again means, the first time you are born of the flesh through the womb of a woman.

The second time you are born, you are born of the Spirit of God. The Baptism of the Holy Spirt is needed to be born of the Spirit of God. Thus you're born again for the scond time, but instead of being born from the womb, you are born of the Spirit of God. Then He comes and dwells inside of you.

Jesus called Him rivers of living water. (John Chapter 4).
---anon on 9/8/09


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--Leon:

Brother, Clearly you think that, 'A woman's water breaking prior to natural child birth, which we all experience, is what being born of water means'. It's the same understanding Nicodemus had before he received correction of God's Word from Jesus.....plus you think being "born again" only means being born of the Spirit.

Leon, You have yet to hear right what's very plainly shared by Jesus in John 3:3-7. To be 'BORN AGAIN' means to be BORN OF WATER as well as OF THE SPIRIT. Water & Spirit both 'Agree In One'.....and through receiving the Living Waters of God's Word(Christ), we're born again by the washing of regeneration & renewed with the indwelling Spirit of the Holy Ghost : sent as our Comforter. Titus 3:4-7
---Shawn.M.T on 9/7/09


Shawn: Just maybe I'm not hearing you right or else, for some reason, you're not hearing me clearly. Pray for me & I'll do the same for your understanding of Scripture. :)
---Leon on 9/6/09


--Leon:

Brother, There are three, AGREEING IN ONE, bearing witness in earth, SPIRIT,WATER & BLOOD. 1John 5:7-8

John 3:5 is reiterating John 3:3. To be BORN AGAIN, is to be BORN OF WATER & OF THE SPIRIT......and to be born again of water is not a woman's water breaking prior to natural child birth, nor does it agree 'IN' Jesus. This is what Jesus was revealing to Nicodemus in John 3:6 : That being born again has nothing to do with the flesh which cannot enter into God's Kingdom, but everything to do with the SPIRIT,WATER & BLOOD bearing witness in earth.

Continue to prayerfully work it out with the Spirit of Truth, and He guide you in to 'All Truth', that we're not made Perfect by the flesh of women's water breaking!!
---Shawn.M.T on 9/6/09


Shawn.M.T.: John 3:3-7 is very plainly spoken. It was understood by both Nicodemus & Jesus that a woman's water breaks prior to natural child birth. So, that's the initial line of discussion between Nic' & Jesus. John 3:6 further reinterates the "born of the flesh" natural birth we all experience. As Jesus said, to be born of the Spirit is to be "born again".

I believe you're trying very hard, based on your understanding/teaching, to tie John 3:5 to John 4:11-14. But, the subject matter isn't the same & you're way out of context with it.

Continue to prayerfully work it out with the Lord & I'll do the same. :)
---Leon on 9/6/09


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There are three that bear witness in earth, the 'Spirit', (as the Father's direct divine inspiration), the 'water' ( as the enlightening information received thereby via the Word), [that brings man into the knowledge and understanding of] the 'blood' (as the finished work of the atoning sacrifice of Son of man) and these three agree in one. 1Jo 5:8
We are saved "by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit," Titus 3:5 "That he might sanctify and cleanse [us] with the washing of water by the word," Eph 5:26
Therefore we are 'born again' (renewed, regenerated and restored to lost awareness from above) "not of [a] corruptible seed, but of [the] incorruptible, by the word of God". 1 Peter 1:23
---Josef on 9/6/09


Leon,

As far as the repentant theif, Christian Baptism was not established until after Christ' Death and Ressurrection. And besides, God can saved whoever he pleases, still doesn't cancel out the norm for being born again (regernation) is through the Holy Spirit by the means of Holy Baptism (John 3:3, cf. Titus 3:5-7).

The Early Christians believed that even if a Catechumen (or even a Martyr) died without entering into the Baptismal Font, they can still be saved (Baptism of Desire and of blood [martyrdom] takes the place)

FYI, I only said that I refuse to follow a 21st century interpretation of John 3:5, I rather follow how the 2nd century Christians interpret the text.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/6/09


--Leon:

Brother, As politely as I can put it to you, I've already clearly shared Chapter & Verse as to what being born of water means and it is not a physical birth. Having begun in the Spirit, who could be so foolish as to think that we are made perfect by the flesh? Gal.3:3

Leon, So that we may be able to steer away from the opinions & speculation of God's Word, will you share Chapter & Verse where your inspiration stemmed from that Jesus was really referring to a natural birth in John 3 ??
---Shawn.M.T on 9/5/09


Ignatius: Did the first generation of Christians interpret the repentant thief (who died on the cross with Jesus) & others of their generation who believed on Jesus but weren't water baptized as not being born again (saved)?

You imply the present day Protestant Bible is not to be believed because it is somehow corrupted. Do you think God would allow that to happen?
---Leon on 9/5/09


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Mima. Where can I find the words "Bible", "Trinity" and the phrase "Altar Call" in Holy Scriptures? Yet, you have no problem using those words and phrase. Do you understand?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/5/09


Leon,

My response will be from a Eastern Orthodox view point.

While we are bound by God's Holy Mysteries (Sacaraments), God is not bound by them and can saved whoever he pleases. Holy Baptism (Christian Baptism) was not established until after Christ' Death and Ressurrection.

As far as John 3:5, I will rather follow the interpretation given by the first generations of Christians than a 21st century Protestant interpretation of it.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/5/09


A BIG PROBLEM, only God himself could fix.
*****

"born of water"?? no such thing ...baptism by water cleanses one of PAST sins REPENTANCE of former life of sin ...why many are so confused by antichrist infant baptism with drops of water

CENTRAL LIE with religious christianity DECEIVED into believing The Father in Heaven "made a mistake" God is not "fixing" anything

which is why many false christian religions claim they are "born again today" ...directly contradicting salvation as an inheritance at Christs RETURN ...when all who lived and died in Christ will be RESURRECTED to ETERNAL LIFE a spirit life not another physical life with a flesh and blood body
---Rhonda on 9/5/09


John 3:1-21



Igantius: If one isn't water baptized, he/she isn't born again (saved)? How would that affect the unbaptized, repentant thief on the cross & others down thru the ages who believed on Jesus & had death bed conversions?

Shawne M.T.: In Jn. 3, wasn't Jesus really referring to 1.) the God ordained natural (legitimate) birth we all come into the world thru child bearing? That's the way He chose to enter the world. 2.) Because Adam sinned, we're all born into the world spiritually dead (degenerated)though physically alive. A BIG PROBLEM, only God himself could fix. Didn't Jesus really say anyone who is spirit regenerated (supernaturally quickened/born again) can enter the Kingdom of God?
---Leon on 9/5/09


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Hi, Wendi . . . (o: In the Gospel of John chapter three, Jesus tells Nicodemus a person needs to be "born again", then Nicodemus asks if a man can "enter a second time into his mother and be born" > well, knowing what miracles Jesus had done, I can see he thought Jesus could mean doing such a miracle . . . seeing Jesus could easily do this (o: But being "born of water and the Spirit" first means how God makes us alive in His love so we get started as children of how He *corrects* us (Hebrews 12:4-11) to love. Then "born" means to be taken along by the Holy Spirit, in His flow of loving with God. We need the "washing of water by the word" > see Ephesians 4:22-28. Trust Him to do this.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/5/09


Where can I find the term holy baptism?
---mima on 9/5/09


It refers to Holy [water] Baptism, as the first generation of Christians interpreted. Read "Baptism in the Early Church: History, Theology, and Liturgy in the First Five Centuries" by renowned Protestant Patristic scholar Everett Ferguson.

Many say "water" refers to physical birth. But, the verbal parallels equate birth of water and the Spirit (3:5) with the birth from above (3:3) and contrast it with the natural birth that Nicodemus mentions (3:4). God gives the new life through the Spirit by the water (Holy Baptism).

The Christians in the 2nd century always understood John 3:5 as referring to Holy Baptism (Water Baptism). Why has this change in the 21st century, by many Protestant Christians?

In IC.XC,
---Igantius on 9/4/09


People are born once to a physical body. That's the first birth. Being born again is of the spirit. That's the second birth. The reason is because we cannot know God without the spirit. But all this was also in the OT in which the people in Christ's time forgot. And to this day, a stubborn and rebellious generation - a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit is not stedfast with God. But the hour has now come when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
---Steveng on 9/4/09


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It means to undergo a spiritual birth and then water baptism. You cannot be physically born again twice. This is what Nocodemus in the bible did not understand. That is impossible.
---Robyn on 9/4/09


Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

How indeed!
God bless
---TheSeg on 9/4/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Being born of water does not mean physical water baptism nor physical birth....are we so foolish as to think that having begun in the Spirit, we are now made perfect by the flesh?(Gal.3:3)

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Being born of 'water' means receiving & accepting the Living Waters(John 4:11-14) of God's Word made flesh, Christ Jesus and the Spirit is the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit(John 14:16-14)
---Shawn.M.T on 9/4/09


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