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Is God Sovereign

Is God sovereign? Can He do whatever He wants on the earth or are there limits to His actions?

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 ---George on 9/8/09
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The privelege of God is that he has All-Power. "Almighty" means just that, The Lord God Jesus Christ can do any thing at all. What is impossible with man, is possible with God.
---Eloy on 9/24/09


Warwick //Their opposition to Galileo et al did not come from Scripture.

And neither does your opposition to the truth since there is virtually nothing in scripture that defines the duration of the creation periods as 24 hour days. And you cannot find even one verse to support your belief.

Does the Genesis account tell us anything about the rotation of the earth about its axis during the initial periods of creation? If you answer no, you got the right answer and can go on to realize that God is not bound by our concept of time.

Frankly, you really have a fixation of something that does not in the least pertain to our relationship to the Lord.

Perhaps you should seek counseling.
---lee on 9/24/09


Lee you claim 6-day creation has no 'scriptural basis.'

You know this is false. You know Scripture defines 'one day' in Genesis 1:5. You supplied the dictionary definition which confirms this. You know God defines His creation-days as One day, a second day,..a fifth day, the sixth day. You know He says He created in 6-days in Exodus.

You know we define a day exactly the same as Genesis 1:5. You know the 6-day-war took 6-days, only because God has defined what 6-days means.

Therefore you have written a lie.

As regards Galileo et al the problem arose because the church had accepted man's opinions. Their opposition to Galileo et al did not come from Scripture. Likewise your view is nonBiblical. Same problem.
---Warwick on 9/23/09


Lee hit it right on target when he said..."yes God is sovereign, he is in complete control of His word."

That is correct, God cannot do anything outside of His word. If He did He would be breaking His own promise. (Hebrews 6:13-18, Isaiah 40:8)

There are limits to His actions. For example, He cannot save whoever He wants to save.(John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10)

Our words limit God as well. (Proverbs 18:21, Mark 11:23)
---Rickey on 9/23/09


God can do whatever He chooses within His will. And if it is not in opposition to His character. In Romans we find this "For there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus". >>We must not give ourselves to lifestyles that are characterized by the flesh, for we no longer owe allegiance to it!>>If we continually serve the flesh our life is characterized by a state of death [HELL]. In other words, though God is sovereign, man is still accountable for His actions [Romans 9: 19-29]. Nowwhere in the entire Bible does God tell us that all men will be saved. This is why Jesus came, so all would not be lost. Most people enjoy living in sin too much to come to the light, my friend.
---catherine on 9/23/09




It is obvious to me through Scripture that God wishes, wills, and intends to save the whole human race, reconciling everyone to Himself. That's what I believe. If you want to disagree, that's okay. God bless. God loves you!
---mugwump on 9/23/09


mugwump...so what about those who have already died rejecting Christ...do they get a second chance...pergetory or something like that? How will God save someone already dead.

It is appointed once for man to die and then the Judgement. You will see at the Great White Throne many will NOT be going to heaven.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/09


It is obvious to me through Scripture that God wishes, wills, and intends to save the whole human race, reconciling everyone to Himself. That's what I believe. If you want to disagree, that's okay. God bless. God loves you!
---mugwump on 9/23/09


yes God is sovereign, he is in complete control of his word
---lee on 9/23/09


mugwump, We're talking about the fall of man through sin, that all in Adam have DIED. So the GIFT of God being ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ is given to those who have RECEIVED Him.The Spirit of LIFE...

So right now the sun shines on the wicked and righteous. BUT, when we pass from this EARTH....and some go to hell, and some go to heaven....

Wait, your not suggesting universal salvation regardless of whether one receives Jesus Christ are you?

Well, Jesus said I AM the resurrection to LIFE....Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood I will raise up( those QUICKENED/Born Again by teh resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Doesn't sound like He's going to raise up EVERYONE!
---kathr4453 on 9/23/09


mugwump, the free gift of salvation IS an offer until it is accepted. Then it is yours free and clear. You don't have to do anything for it.
Man doesn't realize that God is saying "Here, take this free gift of salvation" but they refuse it right now. They don't want to listen. And some will say they can't hear. Funny about that, Abraham, Moses, and others heard without having the Holy Spirit in them. They just believed and it became theirs.
---miche3754 on 9/23/09




God's Free Gift isn't an "offer" of a gift. It is just a gift. When God gives gifts, they are already ours. God gave us all the gift of being alive on earth right now. He didn't offer it, we just have it, plain and simple, because God gave it to us, free for nothing.
---mugwump on 9/22/09


Kathr, it looks like there are alternative ways of viewing most scripture passages.
---mugwump on 9/22/09


The term "born again" is only used in John's gospel and in one of Peter's epistles. The Apostle Paul never used the term. We are a "New Creation," not "born again."
---mugwump on 9/22/09


I believe Born Again means to be Born of the Spirit of the Life of Christ, Romans 8 because it is Jesus Christ the second Adam who is the Life Giving Spirit. 1st Cor 15.

2nd Cor 3 state we are being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord.

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Yes, it says it MORE than two times.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/09


The term "born again" is only used in John's gospel and in one of Peter's epistles. The Apostle Paul never used the term. We are a "New Creation," not "born again."
---mugwump on 9/22/09


Meaning Of Born Again

Kathr, God does not need me to judge and defend the gospel. In fact, He does not need anything from anyone MarkV*****


MarkV, do you not hear Paul?


Philippians 1:7
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

Philippians 1:17
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Again MarkV, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 9/22/09


George, again, God is sovereign, and one thing I want to answer to here concerning your question is whether He can do wantever He wants is true, but one thing He never does is go against His own nature or attributes. When He promise one thing, He will not go against what He promised. If He says, "If you repent" that He will save you, He never goes back on His word.
Many times "If" in Scripture when God is talking, is to bring conviction to those He is speaking to, in order to bring them to Christ, and other times it is to so that they can know Him for He has revealed Himself to them to such a degree that in the end they are held accountable.
---MarkV. on 9/22/09


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Amen Nana and Kath!
Man is condemned because they don't believe!
God doesn't make us believe what he says.
Its a choice.
Why some think that God is a cruel is beyond me. Kath is right. God is NOT like that. He loved ALL OF US FIRST! Not just some, but ALL. He offers the FREE gift of salvation through Christ TO ALL. Not "save some" like others imply.
Some deny God's power by saying he is cruel like this when he isn't.
He says his word will not return void. So every knee will bow and every mouth will proclaim that Jesus is Lord!
God never does anything without warning or giving people a chance to repent. Several cities in OT were given the opportunity. The reason some were destroyed is because the didn't Believe!
---miche3754 on 9/22/09


Daniel 4:27: "Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor, if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity."

Good advice if heeded, but it was not, for after a year:
Daniel 4:30: "The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?"
Daniel 4:31: "While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken, The kingdom is departed from thee."

The same old story, Isaiah 53:1: "Who hath believed our report?"
---Nana on 9/21/09


God does say He does what pleases Him. "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand" Dan. 4:35. So your argument is without cause.
All men born in Adam are born with the sin nature, and because they bear a sin nature, they are all damned to hell. It is our sin in Adam and that nature we bear because of that, that condemns all men to hell. As all men go to hell, God, in His marvelous grace, saves some. The rest are damned, but not simply because of the sin in Adam, but primarily because of the sin of unbelief. "You are condemned already because you believe not" John 3:
---MarkV. on 9/19/09


The Sovereignty of God :

God created the Heavens and earth.

God Created Man in His Image

God sent His Son to die for our Sin.

Those who REJECT Eternal life Through Jesus Christ...YES Folks, there is only ONE WAY to Heaven...through Jesus Christ THAT IS HIS SOVEREIGN RIGHT!!!

That Our Sovereign God has every RIGHT to send to an eternal HELL those who have rejected Him, without man arguing back to God.

The Sovereignty of God is NOT GOD being DUPLISTIC by saying He offers Everyone salvation...hopes all will come to repentance ...but not really...all the while laughhing behind man's back snickering and saying to Himself....I can sovereignly do anything I darn well please!

That is NOT My God!
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


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John 1:6-8

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He( John) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

It is interesting that when John the BAptist preached REPENT and be baptized for teh kingdom of heaven is at hand..that man DID come and repent...and we see those very men Paul came across in Acts...WHO never even HEARD of the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


Kath4453-- yes, it is important to read the rest of that verse....but to US who ARE saved, it is the POWER of God! RIGHT! But those who are not saved cannot see it that way because they are spiritually blind.

Every once in a while I can't resist answering these posts that twist what MarkV says. I see he has dropped out of the discussion...probably has better things to do.(but Mima weighs in once in a while).

This is a classic argument that will continue until Jesus comes.
---Donna66 on 9/18/09


Donna, I also want to thank you and others who have supported me on this quest of God's Sovereignty. Such a God as ours cannot be found out by searching, He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word. I write so much that many times I might make an error when I quote something.
But again, I do want to thank you for listening and support, and hope I have helped you in some way. I read what you write also and study what you say, and am blessed when I hear what you have to say. It's all for the glory of our Lord and Savior. Peace to you and others
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


When Paul wrote Corinthians he was writing to already Christians. He is talking about MATURITY, not initial salvation. He is telling these ALREADY SAINTS they are CARNAL.

So when Paul states in 1Cor 2 as well, he is talking about the DEEPER things that accompany our salvation...

MarkV continues to use these and other scripture Paul uses to talk to ALREADY saved People as though it belonged to man before salvation.

He sinply does not understand the difference between Justification and sanctification.

Mima, it was Christ and the CHURCH chosen in Him before the foundation of the world...but CHOSEN for WHAT? Salvation? NO, To sit with Christ on HIS throne the way He overcame and sat at His Fathers Throne. Rev 3!
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


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Freedom of choice:
Jerry, I don't know if you have read Scripture or not but it seems you just don't think of what you say before you say it. It is because you want to redicule me but you err everytime.

You say, "the ultimate act of love is to give free will=freedom of choice to everyone"
Do you know what happened when God gave freedom of choice to Adam? All his descendants are going to hell. All on account of freedom of choice. If it was not for God's love no one would be save.
"But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us" even when we were dead in trespasses and sins, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)"
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


Miche, I did not say no one can call on God. I went back and checked.
No one is chained or does anyone put a gun to their heads to not call on God. If they wanted to, they would. But they don't want to. They don't seek God, Rom. 3:9-11. Jesus said it better, "They will not come that they might have life"
God the Father has to draw them to Himself and turns them over to Christ for redemption.
You think they can come to Christ because you see many coming to Christ, but it's because God has quickened their hearts, gave them eyes to see and ears to hear, an a heart to perceive the Truth of the Gospel when it is spoken to them, and when they hear the gospel faith will come, conviction will come and they will repent.
---MarkV. on 9/18/09


Mark ... You keep imagining what others are saying! No-one here has said man is autonomous. No-one has said there is anything more powerful than God.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/18/09


I believe mankind has free will. I also believe that this free will, born into the natural man, to be against God. I believe those who or ordained to salvation before the foundations of the world were laid will come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Once they come to that knowledge their free will faths into the background.
---mima on 9/18/09


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He has to said it Donna.
I am not going to sit here and get into an arguement about Markv false statements.

Any man can Call on God and Markv has said they can't. That they don't undertand ANYTHING about God.
Man can't understand the deep things of God without the Holy Spirit, but they can sure understand what Jesus said for us to do.
REpent and turn from sin.
What tells people they are in sin?
The LAW! People certainly understand the Law. And Christ said that the Law points to sin. Don't tell me men don't understand God's word- Christ IS the word. Their problem is not hearing Christ, it is believing and obeying Christ! And it is Christ that said this, too.
---miche3754 on 9/18/09


Miche, that is WHY we need to be Justified by the Blood of Jesus Christ FIRST before we can even be JOINED with God in Christ. God cannot join himself with sin. This is WHY Jesus came, bridging our separation from God to begin with. Now we come to the Father, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh...crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him. We stand ONLY in the Righteousness of Christ, not our own individual selves.

What MarkV does is totally contradict the Gospel.

Apostasy is denying redemption THROUGH the Blood, and trying to climbing over some other way.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/09
Amen, sis, Amen!
---miche3754 on 9/18/09


Donna66, it is important to read the rest of that verse....it continues...but to US who ARE saved, it is the POWER of God!

The Power of the CROSS IN a person's life never loses it's power. Paul clarified this in Galatians...when the SAVED Galatians left the power of the Cross AKA the fellowship of His sufferings, Paul states Ch 3(have ye suffered so much in vain, again also known as Paul says again in Philippians 3, the fellowship of His sufferings, and the power of His resurrection...and this is Christ being formed in them...being conformed to His Image..) and went back to the LAW.
Yes Donna66, MarkV says one must be Born Again FIRST. Born Again in scripture IS being INDWELT by the Spirit of the LIFE of the Risen Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/09


miche3754
I read most of MarkV's posts and I read carefully. He has never said "That Man can't call on God without the Holy Spirit being IN them first"!
The Holy Spirit can't be IN someone who has known nothing but sin and darkness, who cannot even understand the Word of God.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness....,
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: ... neither CAN he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.(my caps).

This being the case, how can any man come to faith in Jesus Christ?

The HS DRAWS a man from without (NOT within),opens his eyes to the Truth so he CAN believe. But He can INDWELL none but a believer!
---Donna66 on 9/17/09


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If there was such a thing as free-will and worked as most of you think, then man not God would rule. God would be at the mercy of man, instead of man at the mercy of God. No where in Scriputer does God say that man has a free will to choose Christ. In fact all of Scripture speaks of God choosing those whom He predestine from the foundation of the World.
Faith is God's gift, and "all men have not faith" 2 Thess. 3:2. therefore, we see that God does not bestow this gift upon all. Upon whom then does He bestow this saving faith? The answer is upon His own elect." As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48, that is why it is called "the faith of God's elect" Titus 1:1.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


Maybe people have free will, and maybe not. But it can't be demonstrated that people have free will.
---mugwump on 9/17/09


Repeating since Markv thinks we are renewed BEFORE we are in Christ. The HS doesn't dwell in an unclean temple!
---miche3754 on 9/17/09
Miche, that is WHY we need to be Justified by the Blood of Jesus Christ FIRST before we can even be JOINED with God in Christ. God cannot join himself with sin. This is WHY Jesus came, bridging our separation from God to begin with. Now we come to the Father, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh...crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him. We stand ONLY in the Righteousness of Christ, not our own individual selves.

What MarkV does is totally contradict the Gospel.

Apostasy is denying redemption THROUGH the Blood, and trying to climbing over some other way.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/09


MarkV you say "He is not limited by anything or anyone. If there is something out there more powerful then God, where God has to depend on, then God is not Sovereign, that object or thing would be sovereign and more powerful then God"

Why then do yuo not accept that God is so great that He can allow FreeWill

By saying He cannot, you are limiting Him.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/17/09


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Romans 12

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service
NOT YOUR spiritual awakening..hello!.

2...... but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove .....the will of God.

ONLY scripture concerning the renewing of the mind comes AFTER salvation, AFTER one presents themselves a living sacrifice..HOLY and acceptable...(no one is HOLY and acceptable except IN CHRIST. WE stand in Christ's Holiness.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09

Repeating since Markv thinks we are renewed BEFORE we are in Christ. The HS doesn't dwell in an unclean temple!
---miche3754 on 9/17/09


God is Sovereign, always was, and always will be. He is not limited by anything or anyone. If there is something out there more powerful then God, where God has to depend on, then God is not Sovereign, that object or thing would be sovereign and more powerful then God.
It is autonomy that cannot coexist with Sovereignty. Man is not autonomous. He is not self-law. To be autonomous is to be self-law. An autonomous creature would be answerable to no one. If God is Sovereign, man cannot be autonomous. If man is autonomous, God cannot possibly be Sovereign. Autonomy implies absolute freedom. it is a contradiction. We are free, but there are limits to our freedom. The ultimate limit is the Sovereignty of God.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


Sovereign 2:
"My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" Isa 46:10.
" He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: None can stay His hand" Dan. 4:35.
Divine Sovereignty means that God is God in fact, as well as in name, that He is on the Throne of the Universe, directing all things, working "After the counsel of His own will" Eph. 1:11.
"Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did He in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places" Psa. 135:6.
God's power is like Himself, self-existent, self-contained. They mightest of men cannot add so much as a shadow of increased power to the Omnipotent One.
---MarkV. on 9/17/09


Is believing enough? Assurance and Security? What did Christ say?

Matthew 7:24-25: "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock."
If my brother would read the writings of Paul with other set of eyes than those of his favorite Bible expositors..., he would see that Paul agrees with Christ, and not otherwise.
---Nana on 9/17/09


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Is God sovereign? Can He do whatever He wants on the earth or are there limits to His actions?

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began,

No, God cannot lie. And if you read the verse above, God promised eternal life before the world began.

He has stated that those who walk in the STEPS of the Faith of Abraham ARE Abraham's seed and heirs according to Promise.

Abraham SIMPLY Believed what God had told him...nothing more, nothing less! Faith is not a WORK as stated in Romans 4.


AND the reason God did not destroy all mankind in the flood is because HIS SOVEREIGN word PROMISED a redeemer to Adam / Eve.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/09


2nd Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves, if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth,

2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

These verses have NOTHING to do with salvation!

The Letter to Timothy is about the conduct of PASTORS in dealing with their congregation.

Paul is not saying only GOD can give KNOWLEDGE of truth to salvation....but is saying the ACKNOWLEDGING of the truth concerning doctrine.

Example, often MarkV is given scripture that he refuses to ACKNOWLEDGE. When he does this he is opposing himself.

Acknowledging is not KNOWLEDGE.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/09


The nonbeliever cannot believe even he given a "chance." Faith is a gift from God and when God gives it, then one will believe. That's how it was with me anyway. If salvation is based on chance, we are in a heap of trouble!
---mugwump on 9/16/09


MarkV. on 9/16/09
This post..

brother I agree with this.
Im talking about HOW God's spirit draws them. How can someone turn from iniquity if they don't know or have never been told the truth? They can't.
All start out as children of iniquity, wrath, sin. We were told the truth at some point and we believe it.
Jesus made us fishers of men. We are supposed to go out and tell God's truth. He says that after hearing the truth, they can choose to believe it or not. Thats God giving them a chance to turn away. When they don't believe, they have chosen death.
God providing a choice and us making it, doesn't take away God's power. It confirms. It confirms that God loves us all first even when at first we didn't love him.
---miche3754 on 9/16/09


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Miche, you and ShawnMT are correct in saying Romans 10:9 & 10, that we believe with the HEART, however MarkV thinks we believe with the mind!

The length between heaven and hell is approx 14 inches,.....and that is the distance between the head and heart!

Gnosticism is all about the MIND..higher KNOWLEDGE etc.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/09


MarkV, you explained it better than I did. Thanks :-)
---mugwump on 9/16/09


Miche, 2 continue:
You said that God wants to give man a chance to repent and turn away"
2 Cor. 3:5, "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, our sufficiency is from God"
You see Miche, even the repentance comes from God. 2 Tim. 2:25,26, "..God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" Even repentance is granted by God. Man cannot repent unles they feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit. "No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven" John 3:27.
---MarkV. on 9/16/09


NO Christian says this. Christians may disagree about WHY a person goes to God and ask Him to change them. But there is NO doubt that those who do this, come away changed, forgiven, reborn.
-donna

Markv has said this doesn't happen.
read his posts with Spiritual eyes and knowledge of God's word, you'll see thats what he says. That Man can't call on God to WITHOUT the Holy Spirit being in them first.

Mugwump, I said God knocks, I didn't say man.
God "knocks" through his word of Truth from Jesus. Im quite sure you had heard already you were a sinner and why you needed God before you turned to Him. All of us who are saved have at some point in our lives. We heard the truth, believed it and Jesus set us free!
---miche3754 on 9/16/09


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Miche, again, I do love you. And that there is no way I believe that you are not born of the Spirit. I have by your answers been convinced of the sincerity of your answers. I don't mind you responding as you do to me because it only brings Truth out and God knows what to do with His Truth.

You said, "God could desroy us ALL if he wanted. But he doesn't. He wants to give man a chance to repent and turn away. WOuld you do your children the way you and markv are saying God does us?"
That is the miracle, that He saves some and does not destroy us all. Second, the wicked are not His children. They are children of wrath. Children of Hagar, Unless God draws them, they remain children of wrath in rebellion to God.
---MarkV. on 9/16/09


Of course God is Sovereign

As Lawrence says, He does not have to answer to anyone ... not even to those who would seek to limit His actions by saying God can't allow people FreeWill.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/16/09


>>>>Some say its false, that man can't go to God and ask him to change them. NOT true!<<<<

NO Christian says this. Christians may disagree about WHY a person goes to God and ask Him to change them. But there is NO doubt that those who do this, come away changed, forgiven, reborn.

Mugwhump's experience is evidence that God doesn't always rely on "help" from Christians to reach a needy soul.
---Donna66 on 9/15/09


Miche, I can only speak for myself. I am not saved because I heard anyone knocking at the door, and not because any believer set an example for me. I would never have chosen to be a Christian. It happened despite anything I wished or did. It happened to Paul similarly.
---mugwump on 9/15/09


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They need a new heart, a renewed spirit of the mind before they can make a choice for Christ. What they need is a spiritual awakening.
---MarkV. on 9/11/09

Romans 12

1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service NOT YOUR spiritual awakening..hello!.

2...... but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove .....the will of God.


The ONLY scripture concerning the renewing of the mind comes AFTER salvation, AFTER one presents themselves a living sacrifice..HOLY and acceptable...(no one is HOLY and acceptable except IN CHRIST. WE stand in Christ's Holiness.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/09


According to what I am reading on many of these blogs, God is not sovereign at all, but rather at the mercy of human Free Will.
---mugwump on 9/14/09

God stands at the door of every man's heart and knocks.
He stands there with the free gift of salvation. All a person has to do is open the door.
How is God asking us to accept his free gift taking away HIS sovereignty? Isn't he doing the offering?
All we have to do is accept.
How is accepting the free gift of salvation taking away God's sovereignty?
God could desroy us ALL if he wanted. But he doesn't. He wants to give man a chance to repent and turn away. WOuld you do your children the way you and markv are saying God does us?
---miche3754 on 9/15/09


Muqwump, that is what I have been saying from the beginning. Man in control, a man centered theology. God is nothing, until they need Him for something, then they come to Him for help. I don't know why they come to Him in prayer if God cannot do anything without man letting Him. Maybe they don't ever pray.
You would figure that on their knee's they would humble to God sovereignty, but they just refuse.
---MarkV. on 9/15/09


Christ's outlook on humanity:

Matthew 9:35-38: "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few, Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest."

A.W. Pink has pink eye, therefore he can't see humanity as Christ would have us see it.
---Nana on 9/14/09


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According to what I am reading on many of these blogs, God is not sovereign at all, but rather at the mercy of human Free Will.
---mugwump on 9/14/09


When we come to Christ, thats us asking God to forgive us, and to teach/show us what HE will have us do with our lives. Thats receiving the free gift of salvation.
Having the freewill DOESN"T take away God's sovereignty. When we go to him because we find out through his word that we are sinners and we need him to show us how HE wants us to live, thats giving up freewill and turning to God, submitting to his will.
Some say its false, that man can't go to God and ask him to change them. NOT true! Jesus said NOT my will but THY will, oh lord, be done!
Repentance is the 1st step to becoming conformed to Christ. Some ignore the things that Jesus did to show us the way. BUT don't ignore it. Always ask GOD what He will have you do always.
---miche3754 on 9/14/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Only two "Wills" exist, 'God's Will' and that which is not God's Will. No matter what you call it(The Evils of Inequity, Satan's Works, Freewill or The Powers of Darkness), it's still not God's Will!!

The Power of God's Sovereignty is in the Pre-Ordained Destination of Creation according to the Pleasureful Counsel of His Foreknowledge of all things.

Many ask 'How can God work all thing after the counsel of His Will, if there are powers of darkness/freewill/Satan's works/the evil of inequity working with-in His Creation....The answer being His 'Faith' in the Spoken Predestinated Word to not return to Him Void. It's a faith that has realized & created every change of existence!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/12/09


Christ-like replies ONLY. Can you people even fathom eternity? Just take a second and use CRITICAL THINKING. If this is impossible than please don't listen and regergitate what you have been told and god forbid you question because that could lead to a society that has consince and reasonable thought. Let this comment pass through so that you can say what you need to say so you can get through the night. History has used religon of explaining things and when fact overtakes belief people become defensive and afraid. Creationism? Based on fitional arguments. Science. Concerned with what is fact. Send the hate now...
---Dont_question_god? on 9/12/09


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repeat, There are some here who want to lesson the depravity of fallen man, by suggesting that man can change his own nature, his own heart become righteous, give himself eyes to see and ear's to hear, give himself understanding of Scripture, all by his own self. All they do is bring down the standard of God's holiness to the same level as man's sinfulness. This way, he doesn't need God to be righteous, to change his heart, or for the Spirit to bring light to God's word he can do that all on his own. That is why he says,
"Those ones disfellowshipped themselves from the "Body of Christ", the Church" in other words they came on their own free will made themselves righteous and can leave whenever they want.
---MarkV. on 9/12/09


How ignorant to peddle the idea that all men must be brought down uto the dirt. God only required the just to bring down the proud and the wicked, not all men. All some men need is compassion as in , "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice". But for the proud and the wicked,

"Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency, and array thyself with glory and beauty.
Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low, and tread down the wicked in their place.
Hide them in the dust together, and bind their faces in secret."
Job 40:10-13.
---Nana on 9/11/09


Man, in his fallen state walk in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, alienated from the life of God. In this state they give themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." Fallen man describe by Paul In Eph 4:17-19. Those who are born again are renewed in the spirit of our minds which is the new man created according to God. Unbelievers are spiritually separated from God, thus ignorant of God's Truth (1 Cor. 2:14), and their willing spiritual darkness and moral blindness is the result (Romans 1:21-24, 2 Tim. 3:7). They need a new heart, a renewed spirit of the mind before they can make a choice for Christ. What they need is a spiritual awakening.
---MarkV. on 9/11/09


Only God is Sovereign. No other exceptions. He never changes.
"The God of Scripture can only be known by those whom He makes Himself known"
Nor is God known by the intellect. "God is Spirit" John 4:24, and therefore can only be known spiritually. But fallen man is not spiritual, he is carnal. He is dead to all that is spiritual. Unless he is born again, supernaturally brought from death unto life, he cannot even see the things of God (John 3:3), still less apprehend them (1 Cor. 2:14). The Holy Spirit has to shine in our hearts in order to give us "the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 4:6). And even the spiritual knowledge is but fragmentary.
---MarkV. on 9/11/09


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Sovereign He Is. Takes no orders from no one. Can do All things. For Him to put on a robe of flesh, Jesus Christ, to come to this world He created. So Awsome
---Diane on 9/11/09


How can He work all things after the cousel of His will, not ours, if man has free will?
-markv
They do this by accepting the free gift of salvation and give up their own will just as Christ did.
If we did not have free will then why did Jesus pray that NOT his will be done but GOD's will be done?
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as
I will, but as thou wilt

Again in Mark 13:46, Luke 22:42, John 6:38
---miche3754 on 9/11/09


God is only limited by His own set boundaries. He created man to be a willing subject and to that effect He declares who He is as well as who we should be as His subjects. Lev 11:44: "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy, for I am holy:".
Even Christ subjected His will to God, John 8:29, Mark 14:36.

Paul even said, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:", Philippians 2:5.
---Nana on 9/10/09


Anon, I have ever responded to one of your post but since I believe in the Sovereignty of God and read your first part which was awsome, I was wondering why you contradicted what you said in the beginning. Here is what you said,
"Yes, God is sovereign. He works all things after the counsel of His Will, not ours.

He gives everyone a free will and doesn't go against our free will,"

How can He work all things after the cousel of His will, not ours, if man has free will? If man can change the destiney of things whether their own salvation or matters of actions, how can He be Sovereing? Seems to me that if man can determine their own destiney they are Sovereign not God. You cannot have it both ways. Both Sovereign.
---MarkV. on 9/10/09


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Scripture teaches that God neither does evil nor approves of evil, rather, though He allows it, He also restrains it, judges it, uses it for the good of His children, and the fulfillment of His purposes [Rom. 8:28-29]....The Sovereignty of God---a theological term that refers to the unlimited power of God, who has sovereign control over the affairs of nature and history [Isa. 45:9-19]. The Bible also teaches that God possesses all power and is the ruler of all things. God rules and works according to His eternal purposes, even through events that seem to contradict or oppose His rule.
---catherine on 9/10/09


God does have limitations on his actions. These limitations are introduced and enunciated by God himself. For an example God cannot lie, he has stated in his word he cannot lie therefor he has placed limitations upon his actions as concerned lieing.

I believe God inhabits his own box, and the walls and sides and the tops and bottoms of that box are framed by the word of Almighty God himself. And you and I as grains of sand on the seashore of time must adhere in our praying, and in our understanding of God by the words he has given us in his book the Bible!!!
---mima on 9/10/09


"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth,
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'" (Isaiah 55:11)

This shows me God's word "shall" do exactly all that He pleases, not being limited to how we can understand it, but doing all God Himself means by His word. So . . . then . . . His word is sovereign. And we are "predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will," we have in Ephesians 1:11. Plus, Romans 9:10-24 shows God is our Potter. This shows me that God is more than what we may consider sovereign to be.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/9/09


George, are you asking can God do whatever YOU want him to do? Sounds like it.

Yes, God is sovereign. He works all things after the counsel of His Will, not ours.

He gives everyone a free will and doesn't go against our free will.

He said in Deuteronomy, Today I set before you death and life, then tells us to CHOOSE LIFE.

He also has sowing and reaping rules in the lad. He has rules that he abides by and if we sin, we pay consequences of our sin.

But yes, He is sovereign. Do you really know what that means?
---anon on 9/9/09


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I don,t know what you are looking for,but I will try to shed some light.Yes God is sovereign,and can do whatever he wishes,but he also has made promises which he will not ignore.Also there is free will,which really means we ultimately choose our own fate.By ignoring God,we choose death,simple choice with eternal ramifications.
---tom2 on 9/9/09


Any limits to God are self-imposed.
---Cluny on 9/9/09


Yes God Is Sovereign. There is No God before Him & none aft Him & Jesus Christ Is His Name. 1st. Tim 3 v 16. He owns it all. He dont have to answer to No one.
---Lawrence on 9/9/09


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