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What Are Some False Traditions

What are some doctrines that are not bible based, but man made?

Join Our Free Dating and Take The False Traditions Bible Quiz
 ---Kella8334 on 9/9/09
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Mark_Eaton. Concerning denominations/institutions, I'll list some of my criticisms.
They teach a hierachy.
They teach that Christianity is something that is done on Saturday/Sunday rather than Christianity being an everyday relationship with Christ. Their actions defy their words on this.
They teach, subtiley and overtly, that one must give their money to the church.
They teach that Christianity is primarily done by the "clergy."
They teach that the "clergy" are more special than all other believers.
They teach that their denomination/institution is the only right one.
They do not teach that the essence of the ministry is when believers minister to "one another." They believe the clergy do it.
---Rod4Him on 9/15/09


Mark_Eaton: "Talking about doctrinal differences is fine, but quit using the denominations as whipping boys."

I accuse ALL denominations of wrong and shallow answers built upon men's ideas and thoughts. Satan has had 2,000 years to steer the christians the wrong way and he's doing it from within the denominational church.

Mark_Eaton: "And yes, my denomination teaches exactly what you both said. We are not in error."

That's what they ALL say.

Read Colossians 2:8-10
---Steveng on 9/15/09


||
True, however, in the case of Jesus, we see no other mother mentioned except Mary and no other father mentioned except Joseph.

Lk. 4:22 ... And they said, Is not this Josephs son?||

And there is no mention of other mothers of Judah's brothers in the Gospel either, but we know there were.

Did their calling Jesus "Joseph's son" make Him Joseph's biological son?

If not, does their referring to the "brothers and sisters" necessarily mean Mary was their mother?

We read "mother of the sons of Zebedee" or "mother of James and Joses".

But merely "Mary the mother of Jesus."
---Cluny on 9/15/09


Ruben//Jesus promises that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church(Matt 16:18), you on the other hand is calling Jesus a liar!

The church here is simply that body of all true believers regardless of denominational affliation. And a true believer in one in whom dwells the Spirit of God.

Ro 8:9b Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

While I will never call Jesus a liar, I can say that you have been misguided by those who have been false teachers - weeds among the wheat.Mt. 13:24f
---lee on 9/15/09


Ruben //If the Spirit is leading the Church than how can it error on faith and morals?

Laugh of the day?

If you truly believe that the Holy Spirit is the one that has led the Roman Church, then you make that spirit the author of evil and that is blasphemy.

Any church historian can tell you the State itself has ruled the Roman church with church offices being brought and sold by those with wealth and influence.

All too many of heads of the church (popes) have committed all kinds of heinous crimes unparalleled in the history of the world.

Sorry Ruben but you should need the scripture that tells you that 'we should know them by their fruits' Mt. 7:16.
---Lee1538 on 9/15/09




To quote someone is a big responsibility. If the quote is not verbatim, it must be noted as such. Here is the end of the referenced quote by Ignatius to the Trallians:
And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, as the holy Stephen did to the blessed James, Timothy and Linus to Paul, Anencletus and Clement to Peter?
1Cor 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours, 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come, all are yours, 23 And ye are Christ's, and Christ [is] God's.
It appears the Peter has an equal stance, not one of superiority or authority over the whole congregation of God.
---MIchael on 9/15/09


and they will not identify who was part of the Magisterium over the centuries since many of the church fathers disagreed among themselves.
---lee on 9/15/09

But they knew who was in charge of the magisterium:
"For what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ off God? And what is the presbytery but a sacred assembly, the counselors and assessors of the bishop? And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, asAnencletus and Clement to Peter?" Ignatius, To the Trallians, 7 (A.D. 110).
---Ruben on 9/15/09


lee * In fact, those who know the Bible will tell you that nowhere is there to be found any Scriptural verse that states Christ promised immunity from error, either doctrinally or in practice.

Matt 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."
If the Spirit is leading the Church than how can it error on faith and morals?

Lee* And it is not hard to see that there were many disputes within the churches that had to be settle by council meetings, but again no infallibility was given them.

Jesus promises that the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church(Matt 16:18), you on the other hand is calling Jesus a liar!
---Ruben on 9/15/09


cluny //Matthew 1:2 mentions "Judah and his brothers"--but they had four different mothers among them!So in the Bible "brother" does not always mean "of the same mother."

True, however, in the case of Jesus, we see no other mother mentioned except Mary and no other father mentioned except Joseph.

Lk. 4:22 And all spoke well of him and marveled at the gracious words that were coming from his mouth. And they said, Is not this Josephs son?

Mk 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? And they took offense at him.
---lee on 9/15/09


Christ is returning to join with (marry) His people - not a building, non-profit corporation, or a denomination.
---Steveng on 9/14/09

I believe this statement will come as a great shock to the denominational churches.
---mima on 9/15/09


I want these comments to stop. Unless you are willing to "name names" of denominational churches, please STOP accusing us.

I belong to a COG/AOG church and I am tired of being insulted. In EVERY church in the world there are people who do not know Christ and ride the pew.

Talking about doctrinal differences is fine, but quit using the denominations as whipping boys.

And yes, my denomination teaches exactly what you both said. We are not in error.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/09




Matt 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren,
Same father.. In order to interpret that his brothers were not of the same mother would be to suggest that Joseph had affairs..
I would be interested in any references anyone could give me as to Mary not conceiving other children.
---MIchael on 9/15/09


---Lee1538 I'm under the impression that you believe your brothers and sisters that have the same mother as you should be called brothers and sisters. That sir is outrageous!!!

Seriously--- I often wonder how sad it will make Mary the physical mother of physical Jesus to see how many people have been taught to pray to her.

Yesterday at the fair after prying with a old Catholic lady, she said, O my thank you so very very much I'm so glad I came and talked with you. After praying she suddenly realize she was saved and could be certain of it. She also hugged me. She was the second woman to hug me yesterday, talk about ridiculous.
---mima on 9/15/09


Here is a false teaching I heard while traveling today. The "clergy" on the radio says, "We are having a conference and you need to get your tickets." Here's the issue, he says, "The Bible says to not forsake the assembling together, and I believe it is the last times. Therefore we should assemble all the more, and don't forget to send me some money." I paraphrased a bit of that.
He uses quilt and intimidation to control sincere people. The application of assembling is so believers can encourage "one another," a two way street. Last times is very debatable, it should not be used to pressure people to do stuff. "Sent me money." Gezz...give me a break.
---Rod4Him on 9/15/09


If the Greek means 'cousins' of Jesus, then why have the translators of our Bibles translated it as 'brothers & sisters'instead?

You know, most of us have the tendency to believe what we read in the Bible. And we do not introduce those born of our mothers & fathers as cousins but as sisters & brothers.

Could it just be that some believe their doctrine is more accurate than scripture itself? Perhaps, liken to the pagan religions of olden days, they seek a goddess as those who believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary do pray to her and prayer to can be viewed as worship.
---Lee1538 on 9/15/09


\\Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
---MIchael on 9/14/09\\

Matthew 1:2 mentions "Judah and his brothers"--but they had four different mothers among them!

So in the Bible "brother" does not always mean "of the same mother."
---Cluny on 9/15/09


Christ is returning to join with (marry) His people - not a building, non-profit corporation, or a denomination.
---Steveng on 9/14/09


I believe this statement will come as a great shock to the denominational churches.
---mima on 9/15/09


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Ruben //Should me where the Catholic Church teaches Tradition over scripture?

The authority recognized by the Roman Church is 3-fold, the Scripture, the Magisterium, and sacred tradition.

Magisterium = teaching authority of Roman Catholic Church: in the Roman Catholic tradition, the authority of the church to teach religious doctrine

So you are correct that the Roman Church does not teach tradition over scripture, however, they will tell you that scripture will not contradict sacred tradition and they will not identify who was part of the Magisterium over the centuries since many of the church fathers disagreed among themselves.
---lee on 9/15/09


Ignatius//Did you know that the Early Holy Fathers/Saints, the 3-5, and 7th Holy Ecumenical Councils, as well as the Protestant Reformers all taught the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos?

Yes, the views on sexuality were very much different than they are in our socieities today.

Sexual intercourse to many was considered sinful but at the same time, necessary. And to have the most holy mother of Christ to experience such a time, thro normal for human beings, was viewed as totally inappropriate.
---lee on 9/15/09


In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/14/09

So you put their interpretations ABOVE what the Holy Spirit teaches?
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
1 Corinthians 2:12-13
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual
In fact, read 1 Cor. again. It says clearly NOT to esteem any man over the HOLY SPIRIT.
---miche3754 on 9/15/09


Matthew is the most Jewish of the Gospels. "Firstborn Son", as used in Matthew 1:25 has a technical meaning among Jews even today.

When a woman's FIRST pregnancy terminates in the birth of a LIVING male child, this is the "firstborn son," and is subject still to the Law of Redemption (now commuted to five silver dollars, which are given to charity).

If her first pregnancy ends in the birth of a girl, stillbirth of either sex, miscarriage, or abortion, and her second pregnancy results in a son, this is NOT her "firstborn son."

But a woman need have no more than one pregnancy ending in one son for this to be her "firstborn son".
---Cluny on 9/14/09


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Reuben--

>>>>>Lee* Sorry, but there is virtually no reason to believe Joseph or Mary did not have sexual desires like the rest of the human race.

Sorry, but there is,<<<<<

What reason? How could you determine this? After Jesus was born, why should Mary remain celibate? If Joseph and Mary had sexual desires, would that make them sinful?
---Donna66 on 9/14/09


especially Mary the mother, whom they report to be an object of admiration and of affection to all. For who would not rejoice to behold and to address her who bore the true God from her own womb, provided he is a friend of our faith and religion? And in like manner [I desire to see] the venerable James, who is surnamed Just, whom they relate to be very like Christ Jesus in appearance, in life, and in method of conduct, as if he were a twin-brother of the same womb.-Ignatius to John
---MIchael on 9/14/09


The major deception in all of christiandom in today's end times is that you must belong to a (denominational) church - each teaching their own traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. "Christians" bicker among each other about what denomination is the true church and, within the same denomination, whose church is better. Would a presbyterian "church" allow a catholic priest to preside over its congregation? Would a lutheran "church" allow a street preacher preside over its congregation? There is absolutely no unity among christians today.

Christ is returning to join with (marry) His people - not a building, non-profit corporation, or a denomination.
---Steveng on 9/14/09


Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
---MIchael on 9/14/09


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Denominational "churches" are detrimental to the maturing christian. Growing, maturing, ministering, understanding in Christ and walking with God is a lot simpler without denominations. Don't let denominations spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies and their wrong and shallow answers built upon men's thoughts, ideas and interpretations.

How do you make living a christian life easier? Just do what Jesus taught and obey the two commandments spoken by Him. Also do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other" and "encourag" because living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominational "churches."
---Steveng on 9/14/09


Man-made doctrines NOT lined up with the Bible: dancing/music are sins and of the devil, women cannot be in leadership within the church/ministry, abortion is okay, being gay is okay, you don't have to repent, you no longer have to follow the 10 Commandments or the Old Testament, once you're saved you don't sin or have any problems, once your saved you will always be saved, titheing and the sabbath are done away with, Christians cannot be demon-possessed. NONE of these things above lines up with the Bible, and is FALSE doctrine.
---Leslie on 9/14/09


"Sorry, but there is virtually no reason to believe Joseph or Mary did not have sexual desires like the rest of the human race." (Lee).

Yes, there is nothing in Holy Scriptures that explicitly teaches that the Theotokos was Ever-Virgin, at the same time Holy Scriptures doesn't explicitly teaches she had more children after she gave birth to Jesus.

Did you know that the Early Holy Fathers/Saints, the 3-5, and 7th Holy Ecumenical Councils, as well as the Protestant Reformers all taught the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos? All the Ancient and Apostolic Churches agree!

Sorry, I refused to follow your interpretation of Scriptures. I rather follow how the Holy Fathers interpret the texts.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/14/09


//The commonly used Greek word for a male relative, adelphos, can be translated "cousin" or "brother" if no specific family relation is indicated. And yes, I have spoken to two Greek professors.

The 2 Greek professors are probably members of your own denomination and thus bias.

However, I will stick with what I read in Thayer Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament concerning the verses that state Jesus had half brothers & sisters.

Also your position is wanting in that you would have to make Joseph & Mary less than human, perhaps with Joseph having the gift of erectile dysfunction.

you may chose to believe what you want to on this issue as it is central to no doctrine of His church.
---lee on 9/14/09


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//I suggest you study Orthodoxy from authentic online Orthodox sources (go to the Greek Orthodox Church website) or better yet go to a nearby Eastern Orthodox Church (go to Orthodoxy in America website).

I can find little or no reason beyond curiosity about a denomination that claims to possess the truth based upon apostolic succession.

In fact, those who know the Bible will tell you that nowhere is there to be found any Scriptural verse that states Christ promised immunity from error, either doctrinally or in practice.

And it is not hard to see that there were many disputes within the churches that had to be settle by council meetings, but again no infallibility was given them.
---lee on 9/14/09


//This reflects nothing more than your personal opinion, not a actual fact. I have spoken to two who agreed with me.

Personal opinion? not really as you can find dozens of books by dozens of authors that dispute the nature of the Eucharistic elements.

Frankly, I can find no reason to care if you wish to uphold a view that is largely regarded by Christians as mere supersition designed to control those who are naive and know little about the Bible.
---lee on 9/14/09


//I suggest you study Orthodoxy from authentic online Orthodox sources ...

I can find little or no reason beyond curiosity about a denomination that claims to possess the truth based upon apostolic succession.

In fact, those who know the Bible will tell you nowhere in Scripture Christ promised immunity from error, either doctrinally or in practice.

And it is not hard to see there were many disputes within the churches that had to be settle by council meetings, but again no infallibility was given them.

If those who claim they are the best for their denominational affiliation can simply toot their horns as long as they observe the rights of others to believe in the truth and only the truth.
---lee on 9/14/09


MarkV* I do know RCC doctrine.

No you don't! Show where the Catholic Church says it ok to worship Mary? :

footnote not your own personnel opinion

Should me where the Catholic Church teaches we have to earn our way to Heaven?

Should me where the Catholic Church teaches Tradition over scripture?
---Ruben on 9/14/09


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Kella, somehow after 9/9 when you posed the question the discussion has gotten way off base with bizarre waxings about Orthodoxy and the simblings of Christ. I am not quite sure how we are being edified.
Anyway, I believe Cluny, Tom and Anon covered what I would have suggested last Wednesday.

Thanks, good question.
---larry on 9/14/09


Only the "invisible spiritual Church" has the Truth.
---MarkV. on 9/13/09

In a sense it is a "invisible spiritual church" because of the mystical Body of Christ, however the Bibe tell us it is a visible church:

1 Timothy 3:15: the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. ( Matt. 16:18)

Matthew 18:15-17: If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone..... If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church, and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
---Ruben on 9/14/09


The commonly used Greek word for a male relative, adelphos, can be translated "cousin" or "brother" if no specific family relation is indicated. And yes, I have spoken to two Greek professors. No arguments from them.

As far "the patriarch of the Orthodox Church", there is no such thing. Your wiki article doesn't say it. I suggest you study Orthodoxy from authentic online Orthodox sources (go to the Greek Orthodox Church website) or better yet go to a nearby Eastern Orthodox Church (go to Orthodoxy in America website). I find it amusing you went to a non-Orthodox website to find out what we believe.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/14/09


Lee. Considering that you have in the past made silly statements (such as your statement that all Church Historians/Scholars will tell you that the ECF's was not in agreement on the nature of the Eucharist [I proved otherwise]), I am not surprise that you made this statement: "talk to any Greek professor, he will tell you that the Greek does indeed support the FACT that Jesus had [literal] brothers & sisters [from Mary and Joseph]. "

This reflects nothing more than your personal opinion, not a actual fact. I have spoken to two who agreed with me.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/14/09


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lee* Gal. 1:19

"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

In Matthew it list the other apostles(Mtt 10:2)

Now the names of the twelve apostles are these, The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip, and Bartholomew, Thomas, and Matthew the publican, James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus, Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot

Which James is Paul talking about?
---Ruben on 9/14/09


lee * And it you talk to any Greek professor, he will tell you that the Greek does indeed support the FACT that Jesus had brothers & sisters.

And these same Greek professor will tell you in John gospel 6:52-58 the greek word 'Trogon' is use but you ignore that fact!

Lee* Sorry, but there is virtually no reason to believe Joseph or Mary did not have sexual desires like the rest of the human race.

Sorry, but there is, why should I have to go by your own interpretation of scripture?
---Ruben on 9/14/09


The Patriarch of Constantinople is NOT the Orthodox Pope and has no jurisdiction outside his patriarchate.

And no Patriarch has the last word in doctrinal matters.
---Cluny on 9/14/09


Lee. The LXX, includes specific words for "cousin," notably "adelphinos" and "anepsios", but they are rarely used. The less specific word "adelphos", which can mean "brother," "cousin," "kinsman," "fellow believer," or "fellow countryman," is used consistently throughout the LXX, even when cousin or kinsman is clearly the relation described (such as in Genesis 14:14, 16, 29:12, Leviticus 25:49, Jeremiah 32:8, 9, 12). Lot, for instance, who was the nephew of Abraham (cf. Genesis 11:27-31), is called his brother in Genesis 13:8 and 11:14-16.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/14/09


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Cluny, I have not spoken against Eastern Orthodox in my arguments. I was speaking about wrong interpretations of Scripture by making traditions to overrule Scripture. If your religion has the same doctrines then yours too has many wrong traditions because of their failure to interpret Scripture correctly, and use traditions to overrule Scripture. If the Eastern Orthodox church does not teach what the RCC teaches then why do you and Ignatius argue any points?
---MarkV. on 9/13/09


Cluny //Since there is no such thing as "the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church," you've just shown what what you are sure of isn't so.

Wikipedia = The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople (Greek)is the Archbishop of Constantinople - New Rome - ranking as primus inter pares (first among equals) in the Eastern Orthodox communion, which is seen by followers as the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. He has been historically known as the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople, as distinct from the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople and the ancient Latin Patriarch of Constantinople. The current holder of the office is Bartholomew I.
---lee on 9/13/09


//Protestants hold is that the Theotokos had more children.

And so does the Bible!!!!

Mt. 5:47, 12:46
Mk. 3:31
Lk. 8:19
Jn. 7:3
Acts 1:14
Gal. 1:19

And it you talk to any Greek professor, he will tell you that the Greek does indeed support the FACT that Jesus had brothers & sisters.

Sorry, but there is virtually no reason to believe Joseph or Mary did not have sexual desires like the rest of the human race.
---lee on 9/13/09


\\econd, it is a fact I know very little about Eastern Orthodox. I never like to speak against anything that I have not studied before.\\

Then why are you making statements about it?
---Cluny on 9/13/09


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Ignatius, First I am not defending Protestants, demoninations but Scripture Truth. If I have to stand by myself so be it. Second, it is a fact I know very little about Eastern Orthodox. I never like to speak against anything that I have not studied before. How can I say your denomination is wrong if I don't know what it teaches? I do know RCC doctrine. Third, when you say something is wrong, you have to explain why you think it is wrong and give Scripture. If you want to talk about a perticular interpretation that you believe is not correct put down the topic and passages. Every denomination has some form of the same doctrines, some Truth and some error. Not a one is perfect. Only the "invisible spiritual Church" has the Truth.
---MarkV. on 9/13/09


Mark V,

I was being sarcastic to Lee, who did what you told me..."It is easy to just put comments, but no proof as to why."

But anyway, Let's start with the foul teaching proposed by many Protestant Christians in these blogs and else where: The Pre-Trib Rapture. They interpretation of Scriptures are truly disputable and even in error. And then there is the filioque heresy, but many Protestants are unaware that they follow Rome in this regard. And another doctrine that many (or should I say "most"?) Protestants hold is that the Theotokos had more children.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/13/09


"I am sure Ignatius believes Presbyterians, et al. are in error because they do not recognize as their authority the Patriarch of the Orthodox church. " (Lee)

"Patriarch of the Orthodox Church"? We have several Lee. We have nothing in comparison to the Roman Papacy. I suspect that you, like Mark V and others, have limited or no knowledge of Eastern Orthodoxy. It is quite clear you have no clue about the Ecclesiology of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

"I believe history witnesses of that in view of all the controversies they have been engaged in over the centuries."

So?

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/12/09


Wearing a wedding ring is of pagan origin, but even Jehovah's Witnesses wear them. Just because something is done that doesn't originate in the Bible, that doesn't make it evil or "false."
---mugwump on 9/12/09


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\\ I am sure Ignatius believes Presbyterians, et al. are in error because they do not recognize as their authority the Patriarch of the Orthodox church. \\

Since there is no such thing as "the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church," you've just shown what what you are sure of isn't so.
---Cluny on 9/12/09


I am sure Ignatius believes Presbyterians, et al. are in error because they do not recognize as their authority the Patriarch of the Orthodox church.

Like their companion the Roman Catholic church, they claim Apostolic succession validates their doctrinal stands, however, they can point to nothing in scripture that indicates they like the Roman Church, were guaranteed some kind of immunity from error. I believe history witnesses of that in view of all the controversies they have been engaged in over the centuries.

Nonetheless we should be tolerant of our weaker brothers in Christ. Let them toot their little horns.

Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
---lee on 9/12/09


\\ Can you list the many interpretations of Scripture you find disputable and even in error that protestant have made?\\

Denying that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ is the most common.

Filioquism is another.

Saying that bishops and presbyters are the same order is a third.

Cutting on books from the Old Testament is a fourth.
---Cluny on 9/12/09


Ignatius, you made this statement,
"Yes, Presbyterians, and other late (post 17th century sects) Protestant sects have many interpretation of Scriptures that are truly disputable and even in error."
Can you list the many interpretations of Scripture you find disputable and even in error that protestant have made? I would like to look them up, so as to agree with you or not. It is easy to just put comments, but no proof as to why.
---MarkV. on 9/12/09


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Amen Cluny!

"Let's face it, nearly all denominations make claims usually of a historical nature that they cannot defend adequately." (Lee)

Like?

"And many have interpretations of scripture that are truly disputable and even in error."

Yes, Presbyterians, and other late (post 17th century sects) Protestant sects have many interpretation of Scriptures that are truly disputable and even in error.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/11/09


||Ignatius - some would also add Greek & Russian and other Orthodox sects to your listing. \|

Who do you think preserved the Bible for the likes of YOU? In fact, who do you think decided what should be in the Bible to start with?

Please tell us EXACTLY what man-made traditions we follow. Be specific.

Sentences like "Well, if you do so and so" are unacceptable, as they are simply fancy ways of saying you have no clue.
---Cluny on 9/11/09


"Ignatius - some would also add Greek & Russian and other Orthodox sects to your listing." (Lee)

True, that is why what is orthodox or hetrodox is based upon one's Tradition. Some here are Arians, and consider us Trinitarians heretical. I simply gave my Eastern Orthodox viewpoint on the subject matter, as others gave there viewpoint.

Presbyterianism and other post 16th century Protestant sects should also be included in my listing, in a Orthodox viewpoint.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/11/09


Ignatius - some would also add Greek & Russian and other Orthodox sects to your listing.

Let's face it, nearly all denominations make claims usually of a historical nature that they cannot defend adequately.

And many have interpretations of scripture that are truly disputable and even in error.

However, the Lord has His people in many different denominations, it is only that some of these sects really do not fulfill the Great Commission very well due to their political and theological policies.
---lee on 9/11/09


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Pre-Trib Rapture, Bible Alone, Bible interpret itself, Roman Papacy, Purgatory, Filoque, Immaculate Conception, Zwingli doctrine on the Eucharist, Calvinism, etc.

Others (the following are heresies) include, but are not limited: Scythism, Hellenism, Phythagoreans, Platonists, Epicureans, Samaritanism, Gnostics, Carpocrations, Cerinthians, Nazarenes, Ebionites, Valentinians, Marcoseans, Cerdonians, Marcionists, Encratites, Cataphrygians, Sabellians, Origenians, Paulianists (followers of Paul of Samosata), Manichaeans, Arians, Photinians, Sermiarians, Pneumatochi (Macedonians), Antidicomarianites, Collyridians, Nestorians, Monophysites, Eutychians, Donatists, Monothelites, Iconoclasm.

Google these sects if you wish.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/11/09


\\You appear to not be seeking Christ or His ways, you come across as a scribe or pharisee. You know it all.\\

In other words, you cannot refute what I actually say, so you attack me personally.

I will say that on the basis of the behavior of certain people here that I will refrain from naming, I really doubt that one could find Christ here.

---Cluny on 9/10/09


AlwaysOff//Voiding the 4th commandment (i.e. sabbath needn't be kept holy), Marriage vows and a minister "legally" officiating marriage, and women can't wear pants.

All those issues have been and still are defensible from scriptural grounds, thus not made made doctrines at all.

The 4th commandment is not applicable on the Christian from a covenantal standpoint, the church has the right to settle matters regarding divorce & marriage, and there is nothing in the Bible that forbids women wearing clothing designed specifically for them.

You apparently have majored on external things we call 'scruples'.
---lee on 9/10/09


Cluny, just because Apostolic tradition has error doesn't mean everything in it is wrong. There are many things that are right, but it has truth mixed with, shall I say heresy. To some extent you are right about how protestants accept the NT canon, except I would say the NT was accepted over a broader range of people than through Apostolic traditions.
The traditions "Paul" delievered.
I don't claim to be on a spiritual level with Christ,however I do claim to follow Christ and commit my life to Christ.
Cluny, it would be helpful if you didn't put words into people's mouth as though you are the end of all truth. You appear to not be seeking Christ or His ways, you come across as a scribe or pharisee. You know it all.
---Rod on 9/10/09


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\\
Voiding the 4th commandment (i.e. sabbath needn't be kept holy),\\

What day do we get to keep UNholy?
---Cluny on 9/10/09


\\
Yes, I reject Apostolic Traditions, the same as Jesus rejected religious traditions of His day.
---Rod on 9/10/09 \\

That means you reject the entire New Testament, because it's nothing more than the written form of PART of the Apostolic Tradition.

What other authority do you have for it?

There's no list that came down from heaven saying what books would be in it, is there?

And St. Paul himself told the Corinthians, "I praise you, because you keep the TRADITIONS just as I delivered them unto you."

He also said elsewhere, "Keep the TRADITIONS you have been taught, whether by our word or epistle."

Finally, you are certainly NOT on the spiritual level of Jesus christ.
---Cluny on 9/10/09


Voiding the 4th commandment (i.e. sabbath needn't be kept holy), Marriage vows and a minister "legally" officiating marriage, and women can't wear pants.
---AlwaysOn on 9/10/09


//The trinity (invented by Egyptians and used extensively in Babylon as triadic gods, and rearranged by Greek philosophers Plato & Philo into the '3 in 1' concepts seen in the RCC and its anglican sects).

While it is true that some of the pagan religions had a trinity of sorts, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - that God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit are of one substance and being was a doctrine developed from scripture early in the life of the church.
---lee on 9/10/09


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Praying to Mary or other saints is certainly a false tradition.
The Trinity is not a tradition but an english noun used to describe what is true, the three person identity of God.
There is nothing false about Genesis 1:26.
---larry on 9/10/09


It was suggested that asking a living believer to pray for us was equivalent to praying to Mary or saints or angels. When we ask a believer to pray for us, we asking them to go "boldly to the Throne of Grace," to God through Jesus Christ. We are directly asking/praying God to intercede on the behalf of a brother/sister. Paul did this.

Yes, I reject Apostolic Traditions, the same as Jesus rejected religious traditions of His day.
---Rod on 9/10/09

AMEN ROD!!!
AMEN !!
Living praying saints is BETTER than dead ones!
---miche3754 on 9/10/09


Praying to "Mary and heavenly saints and holy angels."

Another blog closed, so this may be an appropriate blog to continue.

It was suggested that asking a living believer to pray for us was equivalent to praying to Mary or saints or angels. When we ask a believer to pray for us, we asking them to go "boldly to the Throne of Grace," to God through Jesus Christ. We are directly asking/praying God to intercede on the behalf of a brother/sister. Paul did this.

Yes, I reject Apostolic Traditions, the same as Jesus rejected religious traditions of His day.
---Rod on 9/10/09


BTW, mima.

Do you have any idea what the term "Holy See" means?

Can you tell us, without looking it up?
---Cluny on 9/10/09


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//The emerging church movement, the Barbarians, the Catholic church and many other false teachings are rampant today leading many astray. Study to be prepared to recognize these false teachings.

Yes, we need today more than ever, the spiritual gift of discernment as the gospel is watered down or simply disregarded totally.

The endtime church will have all the appearances of what a church should be but lack the power of the gospel message.

2 Tim. 2:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
---lee on 9/10/09


Non-biblical doctrines:

The trinity (invented by Egyptians and used extensively in Babylon as triadic gods, and rearranged by Greek philosophers Plato & Philo into the '3 in 1' concepts seen in the RCC and its anglican sects)

Mary mother of God (a trinity doctrine spin off. Mother goddess worship again springs from Babylon & copied by 'Babylon the Great'- Rev.18:2,4)

Immortality of the soul (Eccs.9:5, Eze.18:4, Acts.24:15)

Hellfire (Jeremiah 7:31, Eze.18:4, Romans 6:7)

These teachings are unscriptural and form the bedrock foundations propping up 'Babylon the Great'.
---David8318 on 9/10/09


\\Nowhere in the Bible is Mary ever referred to as being Holy. In fact it is blasphemy to honor her with that title.
Also calling the pope the "Holy See" is a man-made tradition that is totally false.\\

I guess "blessed" and "holy" are not the same words, are there?

And since "holy" is the same word in Greek as "saint", then we can't use the word "saint" to describe believers.

Finally, the pope has NEVER been called the "Holy See".

Once more mima displays his erudition.
---Cluny on 9/9/09


The doctrine that deifies the Virgin Mary by calling her Holy is completely false and man made.
Nowhere in the Bible is Mary ever referred to as being Holy. In fact it is blasphemy to honor her with that title.
Also calling the pope the "Holy See" is a man-made tradition that is totally false.
---mima on 9/9/09


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\\Taking communion is not literally eating Jesus's body and blood as the Catholics believe, it is a symbolism of His body and blood.
---anon on 9/9/09\\

Guess what?

It's not just Catholics that believe this or observe Lent.

In fact, the Christians that do neither are the SMALL MINORITY!
---Cluny on 9/9/09


The emerging church movement, the Barbarians, the Catholic church and many other false teachings are rampant today leading many astray. Study to be prepared to recognize these false teachings.
---Sandra on 9/9/09


//What are some doctrines that are not bible based, but man made?

The Apostles and their successors were men and they created a tradition of Christians meeting on the Lord's Day which is Sunday.

Thus observance of the Christian Sabbath is nothing less than a man made tradition. Howbeit the Bible clearly tells us to "stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle". 2 Th. 2:15.

There is nothing wrong with tradition unless it nullifies the word of God such as we see in Matthew 15 where the Jews found reason to reject honoring their parents.
---Lee on 9/9/09


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