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God Allows Pain And Suffering

Son's friend says she is an atheist, but is curious about our beliefs. One question she has for son is if there is a God, why does He allow pain and suffering in the world. Why does He save some and not all?

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 ---Debbie on 9/11/09
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athiest when you are judged by God appologies wont be part of his questioning.I apoligizt that my fellow christian is apologing for your lack of faith,or belief .
---tom2 on 9/17/09

Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
If we remove the glass or the water from a glass of water it cease to exist. Even animals partake of pain and suffering. Could there be joy without sadness to contrast it with, growth without decay? Not in our life or any other life, flora or fauna.

One asks, why God chooses some people? I double the question, why do you choose your fruit at the market?
---Nana on 9/17/09


As a Christian let me apologise for my nutty relation who sees it better to gloat and throw verse after verse at you.

I asked how many verses Jesus talked about hell in a literal manner. No one answered. In fact, as I recall, there are none. I don't read Jesus' words on hell as being a literal place of fire etc.

Hell is a place where our Creator does not exist.
---Marc on 9/17/09

May I ask you?

You believe there is nothing above you, but cloud? Right!

If so, how do you explain, the creation. That the lord talked about?
Because from nothing, you can get nothing!

And how do you explain the history of Christ. When you look at the number of men, who have walked the earth, every few are talked about. Really, only the true great men are in the books.

And do you believe? There even was a man call Jesus Christ?
Or do you believe its all a big lie?

If you do believe he walked the earth. How do you explain the fulfillment of the OT?
No, normal man could have fulfill this.

Not everyone here know their father! Some just read!
---TheSeg on 9/17/09

Atheist, you bring up some good points. We do need the feed the hungry and clothe the naked and welcome the stranger. If we don't do those things, we are remiss. The Bible says that God is love and that it is his will and intention to save the whole human race. And I believe that very strongly. All the best to you.
---mugwump on 9/16/09

yep.jesus said unless you are born again,he also said my dheep hear my voice.specifically yes without jesus eveyone,every other faith is false and leads to hell,hell is a real place for all who reject jesus.
---tom2 on 9/17/09

athiest,what you dont,or wont believe is that everything that happens God uses for our good,he wants everyone saved.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

God suffered and died on a cross because of each one of us.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

One reason God allows pain & suffering is for similar reasons that human being do examinations.
God's salvation is available for everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, but nobody shall be forced to believe.
---Adetunji on 9/16/09

"athiest,you miss the point completely,we cause our own pain and suffering most of the time.---

The eye is blind when the mind is absent...

There are several hundred million people now living without enough food, water, clothing, shelter, medical attention, or access to jobs or education, and have no means by which to change their condition. They will suffer intensely throughout their lives.

Since they also have not been "saved", will they also go to 'hell' for their lack of belief?

Will they join Amanda and others of faith, who like her do not believe in a sadistic 'god' that maintains 'hell' for non-believers and those who don't believe correctly as you?

Do people of other faiths go to 'hell'?
---atheist on 9/16/09

athiest,God is holy,and righteous,he must judge rightly,so if our actions ,and choices merit punishment he must pass judgement,you call him a torturer,I call him father and savior.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

I know for sure your headed there.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

athiest,you miss the point completely,we cause our own pain and suffering most of the time.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

amanda,have you read the scripture i mentioned?one is a direct quote from jesus about everlasting punishment,revelation tells of evelasting torment,and everlasting fire,all are the word of God,one from the don himself,the other from a apostle,all from the bible the written word of God.NOT DOING MY JOB,HA you are ignoring Gods word.
---tom2 on 9/16/09

Tom2, the words translated Everlasting Punishment in your Bible are actually a mistranslation of the Greek by people who had a bias. The sense of the Greek is "Chastening age-abiding." The word Chastening in Greek is Kolasis, which means correction for the purpose of rehabilitation.
---mugwump on 9/15/09


It is odd that people who call themselves Christians cannot agree on whether or not 'Hell' is eternal torture or just death. I have noticed this in many blogs not just this one.

For myself, death doesn't scare me---eternal life would get boring...And if I were to chose a 'god' I wouldn't chose a sadistic torturer who had a 'hell' for me if I didn't get it right, but one like Amanda and others here believe in who gives them comfort and strength.

But I am curious, in your exchanges and those I have read from others who believe in a hell of the burning kind, it is implied that those who call themselves Christians---but don't believe in that hell will find themselves there for lack of belief. Is that what you believe?
---atheist on 9/15/09

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Can anyone tell me how many verses there are in which Jesus spoke non-metaphorically about Hell, to people other than the religious hierarchy?
---Marc on 9/16/09

you need to read matthew chapter 25,and pay SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE LAST VERSE.QUOTE and these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT,but the righteous into life eternal.A direct quote from jesus himself,everlasting punishment,what is that?where is that?just how long is everlasting punishment?
---tom2 on 9/15/09

better yet read rev 14-11 and rev 20-10 both speak of EVERLASTING TORMENT and EVERLASTING FIRE.
---tom2 on 9/15/09

You're not doing your job as a Christian. Scaring people with stories of hell is not going to lead anyone to Christ, and if it has, their heart is not true. You have to love Christ for Christ, not because you are going to get some reward at the end. The love has to be unconditional.
---amand6348 on 9/15/09

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its not a threat,just a fact.There are consequences to every decision,to ignore them is not only immature ,but rather not very bright.If you jump from a 100 story building you will probably die.ignore God and its a certainty.I personally believe in eternal punishment,just as I believe in eternal reward in heaven with jesus.The bible says every soul lives on after death,and that its our choice as to where.
---tom2 on 9/15/09

see thats where you are wrong. God doesn,t force you to do a thing,he does say that hell is a place reserved for satan ,his demons ,and all who choose to follow them.So actually you choose.
---tom2 on 9/15/09

amanda,let me ask you just what jesus came to save us from?as a believer in God,if there was or is no punishment after death what was Gods intention? to save us from nothingness?or was it to offer those who choose jesus something?then why is there a judgement?where all will be judged?those who dont believe in hell are calling God a liar.
---tom2 on 9/15/09

When we see God through human eyes we want Him to act in ways that are human.

It understandable that a human father would not want his child to experience pain and suffering. But it is also true that experience is a great teacher. Without pain, there can be no growth. We have to experience pain in order to gain knowledge.

We also need to recognize that pain is sometimes a consequence of an action. If I choose to smoke, I may get a sore throat as a consequence to the action.

If God truly stopped all pain and suffering we would be like androids, human looking, but without emotions. It is our emotions that make us human.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/09

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SIN,SIN,SIN,God created us with free will,we choose to disobey,and rebel,this is sin.Sin brought death,both physical,and more important spiritual death into the world.God in genesis stated his plan to eve that one day her seed would crush satan head,aka jesus,so God ALLOWED his son to SUFFER AND DIE for the world,so because God loves us he allows us to suffer,just as he suffered.
---tom2 on 9/15/09

I'm glad your beliefs are so strong Tom. Hopefully for you, they are right. Hopefully for some other people, they are wrong, since some other people don't want to feel forced to worship someone with a threat of hellfire if they don't.

I'm done.
---amand6348 on 9/15/09

amanda,they dont believe a loving God would only give people two choices.seems to me that a live as you like attitude.Its not me that says choose,its God,athiest believes and has made statements that a loving God is I believe he said sick or something worse,he doesn,t understand,or believe there is a God.Yes he has the God given right to reject ,but this makes him a fool,why cause God says so.
---tom2 on 9/14/09

Donna, you have read your history. I am not old enough to be a Mugwump original. :-) Almost old enough, but now quite!
---mugwump on 9/14/09

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amanda,its not a threat its a promise from God himself.look at the mans blog name ATHIEST,if he continues with his rejection the only word in his life after life is DEATH.why is he here? I have been reading his posts for awhile,Thats really funny how you think I can threaten anyone with hell fire,when the one who really does it is God himself.Amanda its not me who decides where people go after death dear,and certainly not my words that will convict them.Today is the day athiest,but one day we all die,then its toooooo late.
---tom2 on 9/14/09

\\ yep ,jesus said let the tares grow with the wheat,and at harvest the lord will separate them.which are you?
---tom2 on 9/14/09\\

And what did Jesus say would get raptured out first?

(Hint: "Wheat" is the wrong answer.)
---Cluny on 9/14/09

A threat is a threat, whether he takes you seriously or not. And that is all that I have to say.
---amand6348 on 9/14/09

But (okay that wasn't the last thing that I had to say) lol, Tom2, I did like how you talked about choosing life or death. Those words to me were better than "You're going to hell." Okay, now I'm done. lol
---amand6348 on 9/14/09

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Could you translate that to English?
---atheist on 9/14/09

yep ,jesus said let the tares grow with the wheat,and at harvest the lord will separate them.which are you?
---tom2 on 9/14/09

A "mugwhump" was the name given someone who bolted from the Republican Party during the U.S. presidential election of 1884. I think people today use it because they like the sound. Is that true mugwhump?
---Donna66 on 9/14/09

Why does no one on this blog give the right answer??
Satan is ruler of our planet 'till the God's Kingdom rule takes full effect.
Under the "Kingdom" no pain or suffering will be extant!
Cancer, diabetes,birth defects,CP,accidents etc are no respecter of persons.(that's why we have doctors).
This will continue 'till Christ returns.
Try to lead a healthy lifestyle,as best you can,thinking "safety first".
Under Kingdom rules, no tears...(except of joy)
---1st_cliff on 9/14/09

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athiest,let me attempt to get my head wrapped around something here.If you dont believe there is a God whats your point?are you here merely to argue that point?are you here to win believers to your point if view?As a believer personally Iam not interested.I have spent my years lost in the world,without faith,iamsorry but scripture tells me specifically that you and your attitude are the spirit of anti christ,and if amanda and others are being cordial thats really nice,but they and all who are believers really should just ignore you,because you create discent,as a non believer we are to deliver the message with love,so with love ,choose jesus or continue choosing death,its your choice.
---tom2 on 9/14/09


---atheist on 9/14/09

athiest,you say you cant understand why a loving God would allow suffering,first mistake.Read john 3-16 suffering came into the world because God made us with free will,we make bad choices,and are evil in our flesh,just look at hitler to see what humans are capable of,or better yet watch the news.
---tom2 on 9/14/09

I went through this on another blog,tolerating sin.suffering,pain,evil,all by products of sin.scripture clearly states jesus was without sin,aka his death was Gods plan to save man from himself,and allow reconciliation with the human race.We suffer because of our sin,becqause God made us with free you want someone to choose to love you,or would you rather force them to?
---tom2 on 9/14/09

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Atheist, you're welcome. It is not important that people agree with me or with you. What is important is that we treat each other with kindness. Enjoy your evening.
---mugwump on 9/14/09

St. John Chrystostom, who invented expository preaching in the 4th century, said this about suffering:

If the Lord should give you power to raise the dead, He would give much less than He does when he bestows suffering. By miracles you would make yourself debtor to Him, while by suffering He may become debtor to you. And even if sufferings had no other reward than being able to bear something for that God who loves you, is not this a great reward and a sufficient remuneration? Whoever loves, understands what I say.
---Cluny on 9/14/09

Why even try to explain it, to a nonbeliever?
Well, this is what the gospel is for!

Why does He allow pain and suffering in the world.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

This is way, even though hard to believe!
But, he said!
Mat 5:2 and on

Why does He save some and not all?
Say, do you believe this?

This is one of god children, who had turn away!
Then you go home and
Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest. Well!
God Bless!
---TheSeg on 9/14/09


Thank's for your civility.

I agree there is no answer to the topic of this blog. The logic is contradictoy. If 'god' is omnipotent and made 'creation' he certainly could have done it without putting 'sin' into the mix, or making creatures with a propensity to 'sin' at all. And, 'he' certainly could stop a 'sinner' in his tracks in any manner of spectacular ways, both to prevent a 'sin' from being committed, and as a demonstration of real time punishment.

I know that belief gives many people comfort. What bothers me is when one's belief causes one to talk and act in a way that is'holier than thou', and the resultant tensions, hatreds and denigration of others that occurs with that behavior
---atheist on 9/14/09

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Atheist, probably no one here can satisfactorily resolve your issues about theodicy, that is, the problem of evil, which you have every right to be concerned about.
---mugwump on 9/13/09
I know it can not be resolved easily, but I attribute it to the fact that we live in a fallen broken world.

BTW, my college roommate was also called mugwhump. I thought it a unique nickname, but then again, there are dozens of obewans on the internet.
---obewan on 9/14/09

as a christian I know that God himself suffered,and died for me,he chose to do this.As a christian I know that pain and suffereing are in the world because of sin.As a christian I know God uses pain and suffering to strenghten us,and teach us dependence upon him.As a christian I know that God gives freely the gift of salvation,of eternal life thru his son jesus.As a christian I know without faith in jesus iam lost,doomed.As a christian I know I should and will pray that your heart is opened one day to receive this free gift.
---tom2 on 9/14/09

Atheist, probably no one here can satisfactorily resolve your issues about theodicy, that is, the problem of evil, which you have every right to be concerned about. But we do believe you are made in the image of God if we are Christians, and that you deserve our courtesy and respect on that basis. You have mine, and indeed I wish you well.
---mugwump on 9/13/09

its easy to blame God for all of our short comings,second is usually other people,next might be the world.Philosphers would say its the human condition.Its not unnatural to blame God,and everyone else,and everything out of our control,except the real reason. SIN
---tom2 on 9/14/09

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The question of this blog is why does 'god' allow pain and suffering?

It's a question that's been raised by theologians, agnostics, and atheists alike for several centuries.

I can't imagine why a 'god' that is omnipotent and loving would allow suffering, or why he wouldn't stop dispatch those who cause the pain and suffering of others. I can't imagine a 'loving god' that would eternally torture people in a burning 'Hell' simply for not believing in 'him' and not asking. He would be an insensitive and unresponsive 'god' in the first case, and a sadist in the second.

Many use their belief in 'god' as a reason to make the world a better place. It is their acts, not god's, that relieves pain and suffering.
---atheist on 9/13/09

the real issue is whether believers should be debating scripture from a wordly view,or as in the case of athiest a non belivers point of view,I say no thruth within him means no truth can come from him,and Gods word says the same thing,so his points means nothing but death to anyone who listens.
---tom2 on 9/13/09

Amanda, great answer to the Pharisees. You are the true Christian around here. God bless you!
---mugwump on 9/13/09

athiest has some good points,you have got to be kidding.A non believer with truth,God has said anyone who believes there is no God is a fool.God offers salvation thru his son jesus,it is each persons choice whether to accept or reject him.Now merely by his blog name ,and many ,many, posts I along with many here realize he is DOOMED,unless he chooses life.not a threat,just a FACT.
---tom2 on 9/13/09

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amand,being a christian means thinking like christ.Athiest hasmade his choice,and he has until his death to make the right choice,but as a believer I resent his remarks about my God,his remarks if you read them are obnoxious,and really out of place on his site.I personally hope the moderators BAN HIM.
---tom2 on 9/13/09

amand,one other thing =,though you may perceive what I said as a threat,it wasn,t,unless he makes the choice for life hell is a matter OF fact AS HIS DESTINATION,AS IT IS with all those who choose not to believe.though he may take it that way ,and you also ,it dont change that fact thaqt that will be his eternal destination.
---tom2 on 9/13/09

just one more thing,whether you accept it or not the true message of the gospel is two fold and plainly spoken by God hiMself,either choose life or choose death,IS GOD TRYING TO SCARE US?nope,just plain truth,choose christ choose life ,reject christ choose death.
---tom2 on 9/13/09

I don't think that threatening Atheist with hell will make a believer out of him. We should love God because he is a great God, not for fear of hell, but I bet all Christians, including myself, love God because we are afraid of Hell.

This is not true love, and atheist makes some valid points.

How would you feel if I told you, You better love me, or ten months from now I'mma beat the crap outta you?, or put you in a horrible place where others harm you?

Atheist, I am sorry that my fellow brethren think that they can scare you into believing, and please continue thinking for yourself! I bet some people are going to accuse me of not being a real Christian, but w/e.
---amand6348 on 9/13/09

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Because man loves their evil deeds more than righteousness.....Why the pain and suffering? God allows it for a whole lot of reasons. For the Saints He alweays pulls us through it. Fot the wicked man as God reminded me when the up-roar over the elections came about, of His own sufferings. Check out these two love words. Benevolence, a type of love from God for the wicked. And then there is a complacent love God has for the saved. God has NO complacent love for the wicked. The wicked man would kill God if he could, is ungrateful to God, is disobedient to God...Confusing God's benevolence love for His complacent love can be fatal! God will send the wicked man to hell by His benevolence love.
---catherine on 9/13/09

Pain and suffering in the world is due for the most part, to man's inhumanity to man. Every man is influenced if not controlled by an inspiring force greater than himself. Those who would hate, oppress, prejudge, or maliciously do harm to their fellowman has closed their minds to love, and not taken the time to seek the Father of life or to humble themselves to believe and embrace His Word of salvation. Therefore the 'god of this world' has blinded their minds, "and the whole world [which includes those who conform to it] lieth in wickedness." Father allows this to bring up and out of us all that is within us for our own examination, and to give us a choice as to whom we will serve. He has given to every man 'the' measure of faith.
---Josef on 9/13/09

athiest,please grow up.many here state their beliefs,apparently you dont,but one day in hell will make a believer out of you.
---tom2 on 9/12/09

oh God is not a man,my Hod in immortsl,has been and always will be,I feel extremely sorry for you,living without a thing to believe in has got to be depressing.
---tom2 on 9/12/09

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God brings good and evil. (Isaiah 45:7). God is running the universe and everything in it according to his own will (Ephesians 1:11). It is God's will to save everyone (1 Timothy 2:4). And if that is his will, that's what we should expect.
---mugwump on 9/12/09


So let me get this straight...

Adam's wife,(probably just an imaginary character in a story---not a person who actually lived), ate some apple after being told by 'god' not to do so.

And so 'god' allows billons of people, the descendants of the imaginary pair, to suffer as punishment through the ages ...

Your 'god' is not a nice man.

Curious belief!
---atheist on 9/12/09

why did God allow his son to suffer?
---tom2 on 9/12/09

because adam sinned.have you read what God said was adams reward for his disobidience?DA here,s the answer.and because thou hast harkened unto thy wife and hath of the fruit I commanded ye not to eat cursed is the ground for thy sake,in sorrow shalt though eat of it ALL the days of your life,theres more but hopefully you get the point.
---tom2 on 9/11/09

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Good quote, Donna.

However, I was thinking about what CSL said in Mere Christianity.
---Cluny on 9/11/09

This is really a two fold question.

1) God allows free will. He does not put his hand down everytime someone is doing something wrong to stop it.

2) He saves some, but not all, because he doesn't want rapists, murderers, and horrible people in his Kingdom, unless they have repented and changed their ways. Would she want those types of people in her house? Why does she let some, but not all people in her house?

Maybe we are wrong and God Saves more people than we think he does, but I also can see why certain people he will not let in his kingdom.
---amand6348 on 9/11/09


Sister, Share with your that the 'pain & suffering' unto death is part of the spiritual growth to be quickened. Cor.15:36-37

Tell her except a corn of wheat fall into the ground & die to the life it now knows as a corn of wheat, it will always abide alone in the earth until the farmer replenish the ground by burning the field. This is the reason that not all are save, and why Jesus stated "He that loveth his life(in this world) shall lose it, and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto Life Eternal". John 12:23-25

Every corn of wheat goes through the pain & suffering of being in the ground of this world, whether they die to self or not, but when they do, they rise to a new Life!!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/11/09

-- Debbie :

There was a typo with the first chapter & verse I shall, it should have been typed 1 Cor.15:36-37.
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/11/09

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I wouldn't be as hard on "atheist" without knowing if her questions are an attempt to "challange" the idea of God, or a legitimate question that sometimes puzzles Christians as well.

Some atheists delight in trying to put Christians on the spot by asking largely unaswerable questions. It usually just makes them appear foolish and mean.

But if this girl is honestly interested, don't let defensiveness rob you of a chance to share the Truth.It won't take long to discover her true motives.
---Donna66 on 9/11/09

Pain and Suffering is there for several reasons. 1st, the Devil causes ALL that is bad (God is ALWAYS good). 2nd, when we sin we bring pain and suffering on ourselves, because of the consequences of sin (sin brings death - spiritual and physical) - in this since we bring God's judgement, and call curses on ourselves. 3rd, God will sometimes allow us to suffer to help us grow in CHARACTER - although God does NOT bring the suffering, but allows it to continue - in this since, it is for our benefit.
---Leslie on 9/11/09

These are questions atheists have been asking for a while . . . nothing creative, here, maybe. Someone may have cloned her to have these questions. And ones may be asking these, not in order to seek the truth, but in order to cause doubt. But what God has us give can be used to help any person, no matter what someone's motive is > He doesn't allow pain and suffering, He is in control of all, and with Him we can make good use of any good or evil in this world, like Jesus has done on the cross, taking advantage of all they did to Him. What is she going to do about it? Watch TV and drink? With God we can do the most that is good to help. God has His purpose for each person.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/11/09

I would say that because jesus suffered,died for sin,what makes her think she wont.
---tom2 on 9/11/09

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The exact quote from C.S. Lewis (The Problem of Pain) is as follows:
~ God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks to us in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: It is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world ~ C.S. Lewis

I would add, much less profoundly, that pain and suffering and trouble of all kinds are what causes us to grow. No one ever matured, who was given everything he desired. In times of distress, we are reminded of our own insufficiency and our need for a personal God who can guide us.
---Donna66 on 9/11/09

Old questions, repeatedly asked.

C. S. Lewis touches on them. They certainly can't be adequately answered in 125 words here.
---Cluny on 9/11/09

sin has brought sickness and death into the world,and God offers eternal life through his son to evetyone,she is one of those who reject this gift.
---tom2 on 9/11/09

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