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False Teachings In Church

There are so many denominations of Christianity. How can you tell which one is not into false teachings?

Join Our Christian Friendship and Take The False Teachers Bible Quiz
 ---Markus on 9/15/09
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Warwick ... There are many other areas besides Creation where there are differing, passionately held interpretations of scripture. The holders of those different view mostly claim "literal" scriptural support. Fortuantely most live in peace with each other.

But the most bigoted holders of these views condemn those with other understandings, and say they are undermining the gospel, and can't have proper faith.

It is that bigotry and condemnation of others that gives Steveng some apparent evidence for his false claim that ALL demoninations are inspired by Satan and should be avoided.

WE none of us have the right to question another's depth of faith, unless that person himself expresses doubt
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/24/09


Warwick: "Therefore you may judge a church you have attended also by His word. But you cannot judge those you have not experienced."

A messenger of God, a prophet, and an apostle receives the truth from God not from man. They do not have to experience something to tell the truth because the truth comes from God himself. You can lead a christian to truth, but you can't make him believe it. The messenger, the prophet, and the apostle deliver the message and whether you accept it or not it's between you and God.
---Steveng on 9/23/09


Warwick: "You convince me you are hate-filled and unbalanced."

You convinced me that you will mock the two prophets mentioned in Revelation. How would you react if someone who spews "fire" that "kills" their enemies or shut up the rains to cause a drought? Do you you consider that person being hate filled and unbalanced?

Warwick: "If you feel we are in error please show us so from Scripture. Not with ignorant generailzations."

Prove to me that I am wrong using the bible concerning the poeple during the end times. I'm not a verse memorizing person, but I do remember concepts.
---Steveng on 9/23/09


\\
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.
---lee on 9/23/09\\

This is what we're trying to do for you, lee.
---Cluny on 9/23/09


"Warwick - is your Coptic church simply a part of the Eastern Orthodox confederation which also believes salvation of Christians is in the hands of the hierarchy?" (Lee)

Still passing lies against the Eastern Orthodox Churches, eh? Your hatred against us is showing.

We don't believe salvation is in the hands of the hierarchy. Shows how little you know about Orthodoxy.

Why pass lies?

In IC.XC.
---Ignatius on 9/23/09




Lee you write 'Warwick - is your Coptic church simply a part of the Eastern Orthodox confederation which also believes salvation of Christians is in the hands of the hierarchy? It would greatly help us understand your attitude toward other Christians.'

My Coptic church Lee? How childish of you!

Why would you ask me?
---Warwick on 9/23/09


Alan as I am sure you know Jesus died physically upon the cross to pay the price of sin. The wages of sin is death. As in Adam all die so in Christ will all be made alive. This does not negate any spiritual aspect.

1 Corinthians 15:21,22 'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive

Is that not the promise of the gospel, that we will be forgiven, and also rise again to physical eternal life, as Jesus did?

As Scripture says the last enemy to be defeated is death. Certainly there is spititual death, as Adam and Eve experienced, but they and all since them physically died because of sin.
---Warwick on 9/23/09


Warwick ... It all of course depends on what you regard as being a figure of speech.

I'm not really concerned whether it was 6 days or 6 aeons (whetever they might be!) or whether mosquitos troubled Adam & were swatted for doing so.

What saddens me is that strongly held views so easily descend into bigotry & condemnation of others.

Those with strong or even entrenched views should argue them fairly, but not condemn those with differing views.

It is bigots who condemn those who differ.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/23/09


Warwick - is your Coptic church simply a part of the Eastern Orthodox confederation which also believes salvation of Christians is in the hands of the hierarchy? It would greatly help us understand your attitude toward other Christians.

//You convince me you are hate-filled and unbalanced. If you feel we are in error please show us so from Scripture. Not with ignorant generalizations.

With that kind of attitude toward others, you will never gain anything but find yourself being considered to be much like most infidels. You simply need to be more convincing with your position.

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.
---lee on 9/23/09


Ignatius,

//By faith they follow their Traditions as being from God rather than from men. Same problem Jesus encountered.

One really does not need to study either Catholic style religions to see that both really depend very heavily upon tradition as well as rituals found within pre-Christian religions that have been modified. Or should we say 'christianized'?
---lee on 9/23/09




Maybe lee is wrong, RCC and Eastern Orthodox may only be 90% the same.

But his statement, "So guys, if you really want a hierarchal type of religion in which you simply follow the leader without questioning anything, both type of catholics have a platter with all the truths for you to feast on. Of course, you may find sooner or later, a foot on your neck and a hand on your wallet."... is still on the mark.

By faith they follow their Traditions as being from God rather than from men. Same problem Jesus encountered.
---Rod4Him on 9/22/09


"yes, I suppose the main differences are cultural as they did things in that part of the world quite differently than the rest of the world...." (Lee)

Since you are not a Eastern Orthodox Christian, and have not study Eastern Orthodoxy, I suggest you refrain from making such silly statements.

What you "suppose" doesn't matter. What you need to do is study Eastern Orthodoxy, and stop embarrassing yourself. We are not in kindergarten where you can make such silly statements and get away with it. Sooner or later Lee, you would have to grow up and have a decent discussion without insults.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/23/09


Alan to take something literally is to ignore figures of speach. I am sure-the trees of the field will clap their hands- does not mean trees have hands or clap. Likewise saying the earth has foundations does not imply concrete or bricks and mortar. We talk of the foundations of our faith-no concrete there, just a concrete belief. Much of Psalms is truth wrapped in Hebrew poetic style. Wrapped, but with nary a wrapper to be seen.

Genesis 1-3, on the other hand, does not use such figures of speech, nor poetry etc, but is narrative prose, history, written to be taken at face value. The type of language an instruction manual uses. This is the way the rest of Scripture takes it, including our Creator Jesus Christ. I agree with them.
---Warwick on 9/23/09


Stevenq can a doctor, having visited 1 or 2 bad hospitals claim all hospitals are likewise, without any proof?

'How does a parent train up their child when that parent doesn't have experience?'

They need only the word of God. However they cannot train children they have never met.

Therefore you may judge a church you have attended also by His word. But you cannot judge those you have not experienced.

You convince me you are hate-filled and unbalanced. If you feel we are in error please show us so from Scripture. Not with ignorant generailzations.
---Warwick on 9/23/09


\\yes, I suppose the main differences are cultural as they did things in that part of the world quite differently than the rest of the world.

So guys, if you really want a hierarchal type of religion in which you simply follow the leader without questioning anything, both type of catholics have a platter with all the truths for you to feast on. Of course, you may find sooner or later, a foot on your neck and a hand on your wallet.\\

Which again, shows how little you know about Orthodoxy, lee.
---Cluny on 9/22/09


//And if you believe Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism are 99.9% close, then you really need to study Eastern Orthodoxy.

yes, I suppose the main differences are cultural as they did things in that part of the world quite differently than the rest of the world.

So guys, if you really want a hierarchal type of religion in which you simply follow the leader without questioning anything, both type of catholics have a platter with all the truths for you to feast on. Of course, you may find sooner or later, a foot on your neck and a hand on your wallet.



---lee on 9/22/09


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"the Eastern Ordodox churches are just another denomination broken away from Rome" (Mark V)

For us, Rome broke away.

"still calls itself Catholic."

Do you know what the word "Catholic" originally meant?

"Still believe in the same doctrines, apostolic succession, veneration and worship of Mary and the saints does not exclude your denomination from the RCC. It is one in the same except without a Pope."

We don't worship Mary or Saints. And if you believe Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism are 99.9% close, then you really need to study Eastern Orthodoxy. There are many differences! We are closer to the Oriental Orthodox Churches than the Catholics.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/22/09


Warwick: "Stevenq please recount your experiences and state your opinion, however when you write 'ALL denominations are a product of Satan.' you are wrong. You have not experienced all denominations..."

Does a doctor need to experience cancer in order to treat it? How does a parent train up their child when that parent doesn't have experience? A person does not need to experience something to have knowledge about something especially when that knowledge comes from God who freely gives out knowedge to those who ask.


---Steveng on 9/21/09


Warwick: "...let alone all denominational churches. You insult committed Christians who attend denominational churches."

Let them be ashamed to learn the doctrines of denominational "churches" - their traditions, their ways of living, their interpretations of the bible, their philolphies, their wrong and shallow answers built upon their thoughts and ideas instead of solely on Christ's.


"Can you match [my] level of denominational experience?"

You have earthly experience. Can you match my spiritual experience with God?
---Steveng on 9/21/09


lee: "...and it was His will that the church be broken down into different components..."

It is not His will, but man's will. When a man hates the church he belonged to, it was up to him to start his own church based upon his philosophies, his wrong and shallow answers, his thoughts and ideas. Satan has had 2,000 years of breaking up the true church. There is no unity among all denominaitonal "churches" only bickering about whose denomination is the true church. Christians even bicker within the same denomination saying "We have a better pastor," "We have better activities," "We have better entertainment," etc. Satan is surely the father on confusion.
---Steveng on 9/21/09


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\\ Cluny, the Eastern Ordodox churches are just another denomination broken away from Rome,\\

MarkV, your statement assumes that Rome was the original church and Orthodoxy broke off from that.

Your two assumptions are wrong.

You have things backwards.
---Cluny on 9/21/09


lee* You tell me! However, this particular James is called the Lord's brother. He was probably the James mentioned in Mt. 13:55

That James is seen in Mt 27:56

Among them were Mary Magdalene and MARY THE MOTHER OF JAMES and Joesph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.


Lee* I suspect that this James was not one of the original 12, the same was true of Paul who called himself an apostle.

Right, it makes no sense for Paul to single out Peter first and than the rest of the Apostles! Nice try on your wiggle out! Take a big breath...
---Ruben on 9/21/09


Type dictator pastors in google this might help
---John on 9/21/09


Cluny and Ignatius would probably retort that the Roman Catholic Church separated itself from the Orthodox, and not the other way around. I would tend to side with them.
---mugwump on 9/21/09


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Whether or not you are actually listening to a false teacher is tricky at best. It helps to remember Satan has many, God only a few. God's people can understand scripture differently, and therefore, can also teach and preach scriptures differently. [I don't like that word. never can find my notes]. But anyways: If the preacher, teacher, has the living God living in them they cannot be false. And in knowing this, takes the great spiritual gift of Discernment. If you don't have the gift and you know God's voice, you can always just ask Him. Also note: Just because you do not agree with what you are hearing, do not automately assume that he or she is a false.
---catherine on 9/21/09


Warwick - I reject the so-called Gap theory - the original world was destroyed due to angelic rebellion, there was 2 different creations Genesis 1:1,2 and the resulting Luciferian flood - I would still maintain that since there was nothing alive during the first 3 periods of creation, there could be no death or fossil remains. We may agree that the Noahic flood was the one that created the fossil remains.

That first 3 periods of creation could have been of very long duration and was the period when dry land was created,the mountains and other natural fixtures were formed.

While this is speculation it is of the same rationale taken by those who believe the record states the periods of creation had to be of 24 hour duration.
---lee on 9/21/09


Warwick ... "Again where have I said I literally interpret Scripture?"

You words show that you do say we must take the Creation story in Genesis literally.

There are of course several meanings of the word "death"

You refer to God's remedy, but Jesus' sacrifice was not, nor did He ever suggest it would be, the remedy for physical death.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/21/09


Cluny, the Eastern Ordodox churches are just another denomination broken away from Rome, the same as all other denominations at that perticular time. They are breakaway from the RCC and in fact still calls itself Catholic. Just another denomination among many at that time. Still believe in the same doctrines, apostolic succession, veneration and worship of Mary and the saints does not exclude your denomination from the RCC. It is one in the same except without a Pope. Nothing really change. Man, changing the word of God to meet their need.
---MarkV. on 9/21/09


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Alan the NT teaches there is only one historical foundation for the historical gospel. This abundantly clear in Romans 5:12,14, 6:23, and 1 Corinthians 15:21,22. That being death only came into the world because of, and after Adam's sin. That Jesus came to overturn the penalty God placed upon mankind, the curse. This is the only gospel and cannot be separated from the reason it was necessary.

Again where have I said I literally interpret Scripture?

Our salvation is gained only through Jesus' finished work upon the cross. Therefore how can Jesus siblings, the Sabbath, predestination or anything else undermine the reality of Adam's sin, the curse and God's remedy?

You create straw-man arguments and clutch at straws!
---Warwick on 9/21/09


//History shows that Saint Peter was martyr in Rome and he (and Paul) founded the Church of Rome.

If Peter & Paul founded the church at Rome who may we say founded the Orthodox churches?

Was the church at Jerusalem, Antioch Eastern Orthodox churches?

The 'founders' of the church at Rome were part of the Pentecost group that returned to Rome and established churches there built around the synagogues claims Eamon Duffy, RC historian.

Even if the Orthodox church was more original, there is no reason to believe their doctrine is true in view of the fact that they were continual debates among theologians in that area. Also the State often controlled that church.
---lee on 9/21/09


"What you then have is known as "speculation" created to justify your desire to make Mary into some kind of goddess" (Lee)

Nope. Your belief that Mary had other Children is pure "speculation". I follow the exegesis of the Greek Fathers.

"I will stick with the plain meaning.....that Jesus had half brothers & sisters,"

It doesn't. And many Greek Professors/Scholars (Protestants included) will tell you that it cannot be said that the New Testament identifies them without doubt as blood brothers and sisters and hence as children of Mary.

I suggest you read Mary in the New Testament: A Collaborative Assessment by Protestant and Roman Catholic Scholars.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/09


Lee the idea there were long-ages was invented to find a place to put the fossil record. The inventors would not accept Noah's flood was world wide, as Scripture says it is, therefore the cause of most of the fossil record.

The fossil record is one of death, disease, suffering, 'nature red in tooth and claw.' This undermines the gospel, making God a liar and an ogre. Why? Because He has not said He used long-ages, and evolution to create, the opposite. When He finished creation He said it was 'very good.' Can you look at the fossil record and believe our perfect God would call this horror 'very good?' Is it not clear the fossil record shows the ultimate consequence of the fall, the result of God's judgement of the world's sin?
---Warwick on 9/20/09


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Alan this is a straw-man argument.

A question for you: When have I said Genesis has to be taken literally?

Unless you can show that I have your argument has no basis.
---Warwick on 9/20/09


Warwick - you are right in believing IF the days of creation are really geologic ages of millions of years, THEN the gospel message is undermined at its foundation because it puts death, disease, thorns, and suffering before the Fall.

I have no problem with that, however, if one holds only that the 1st 3 days of creation were geologic ages than the view is not warranted as nothing living was created during those first 3 periods. Only light was created during the first period, separation of the firmament on the 2d, and vegetation on the 3rd day which could have been sustained indefinitely.

You really should think about this issue a little deeper rather than jump to some unwarranted conclusions about the convictions of others.
---lee on 9/20/09


\\Those were your words, and since all means all, you said you were Eastern Ordodox denomination.\\

Right.

But the Orthodox Church, being the original church, is PRE-denominational.

All the others are denominational. Not ours.
---Cluny on 9/20/09


"The RCC came into existence in the 4th"(tommy)

Wrong! If you knew anything about Cluny, you will know she is not Catholic. And the belief that the Roman Church came into existence at the 4th century is unhistorical, as many Scholars/Historians, even Protestant ones, will tell you. The term "RCC" didn't came into existence until AFTER the Great Schism (of 1054AD) and after the 11th century can we find the basic gems of what will be known as the RCC.

I suggest you read Greek East And Latin West: The Church AD 681-1071 (The Church in History) by Andrew Louth and the 4th part of the series.

History shows that Saint Peter was martyr in Rome and he (and Paul) founded the Church of Rome.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/09


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Ignatius//It is not out of the realm of possibility that the "Brothers and Sisters" mention in the NT refers to Joseph's former marriage (Joseph was a widower). I follow this interpretation, given by the Greek Fathers.

What you then have is known as "speculation" created to justify your desire to make Mary into some kind of goddess you can admire or worship.

I will stick with the plain meaning of these verses that tell us that Jesus had half brothers & sisters, for if the Holy Spirit wanted us to believe something else, then He certainly would have told us.
---lee on 9/20/09


//... You are being inconsistent!
You believe that those who take Genesis Creation as not being strictly literal are undermining the gospel.

There are some (priests & ministers) who believe they have a special anointing from God to know all the truth found in the Bible. And they get upset when simple reasoning challenges some of their assumptions.

They expect us to follow, not question those who have had "truth" delivered to them on some kind of special ecclesiastical platter.
---lee on 9/20/09


Warwick ... You are being inconsistent!
You beleive that those who take Genesis Creation as not being strictly literal are undermining the gospel.

If that's important to salvation, surely so are other "literal" interpretations of the Bible, such as Jesus having siblings, necessity to uphold as particular day as the Sabbath, accepting literally the few passages about predestination, accepting that Jesus literally saw the whole world (in spite of its curvature) when being tempted, forgiving your brother 70 X 7 (and no more).

To follow your argument, doubt over any of these things would undermine the gospel message.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/20/09


See which one has AND CAN SHOW continuous existence from the times of the Apostles.
---Cluny on 9/15/09

Really? I suppose you are "referring" to the RCC? I am so sorry, but, the RCC doesn't have that history, either. The RCC came into existence in the 4th century when Constantine decided to tolerate Christianity. The more I read and teach through the Scriptures, the less denominational I get. I trust the leading of the Holy Spirit to help me see the Scriptures in their true light. I am NOT claiming to have "arrived" and know all things, but, I am increasing in the "nuture and admonition of the Lord."
---tommy3007 on 9/20/09


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Cluny, doesn't the word "ALL" mean all? You said what Steven said was true. "ALL denominations are a product of Satan.\\
That's true, Steve."
Those were your words, and since all means all, you said you were Eastern Ordodox denomination. Different then the RCC. What makes a denomination, is the difference in teaching from one Church to another. And you say you are not RCC. So you are a denomination, and all means all.
But both of you are wrong. Not every denomination is bad, it is bad when people like you with your teachings and ideas enter another church, example, worshipping Idols. Justifying it is ok to worhip idols, because it is not worshipping to get on your knees and pray to them.
---Mark_V on 9/20/09


You may never find a consistantly pure, error-free Church. Churches, like people, are not perfect.
Paradoxically, those most prone to error are those that claim. "We are the true church. The rest are all products of Satan"

The best way to avoid false teachings is to know your Bible. Check every teaching against the Word of God.
Jesus,(Matt, 7:8-9NASB), accused the Scribes and Pharisees,religious leaders of "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men... You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition."

There are worthwhile "Christian" teachers, documents and books, but only the Bible should be considered a source of doctrine.
---Donna66 on 9/19/09


\\ALL denominations are a product of Satan.\\

A denomination is simply a working model in which the gospel can be proclaimed.

Such was necessary due to the gross corruption and sterilization of the ancient church centered in Rome.

God is the god of history and it was His will that the church be broken down into different components in order that the gates of hell should not prevail against His church = that body of all true believers.

//All Reformation and post-reformation churches are denominational.

And that certainly includes the Roman Catholic church created as another denomination defining its doctrine at the Council of Trent.
---lee on 9/19/09


//On threads where argument occurs over earth's age, length of creation-days, or evolution, someone always bobs up saying-it doesn't matter!

There you go again Warwick teaching one must have all the right beliefs to live a fruitful and meaning Christian life.

1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part, but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The Bible does not tell us everything we would like to know but what is really important is whether or not we are abiding in Christ and bearing fruit for Him.

John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
---lee on 9/19/09


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People here argue over whether Jesus' brothers were his genetic brothers or brothers in spirit? How come someone is not saying-It does not matter
As Scripture says you strain gnats from your wine but swallow camels.
---Warwick on 9/18/09

Bible Scriptures we search were written by one people to one people for one people. Bringing blessings to entire Cosmos/world.

Some seeking to understand relationship between brothers/sisters/nephews/uncles is not a pointless thing. Seeking truth usually rewards. Except those denominationally dead ended. Resting on their "pulpit". Pulp-itted 600 times...then probably erred 600 without truth. Assuming you've found truth...error itself. Major Lack of Proof.
---Trav on 9/19/09


Here are some example of places where the Greek word "adelphos" is translated as "brother," even when cousin or kinsman is clearly the relation described (such as in Genesis 14:14, 16, 29:12, Leviticus 25:49, Jeremiah 32:8, 9, 12). Lot, for instance, who was the nephew of Abraham (cf. Genesis 11:27-31), is called his brother in Genesis 13:8 and 11:14-16. Luke 22:32, Acts 1:12-15, Acts 7:26, 11:1, 13:15,38, 15:3,23,32, 28:17,21, are other examples.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that the "Brothers and Sisters" mention in the NT refers to Joseph's former marriage (Joseph was a widower). I follow this interpretation, given by the Greek Fathers.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/19/09


cluny: Does the "PRE-denominational Church" translate as the "Roman Catholic Church?"
---jerry6593 on 9/19/09


Warwick, all Scripture matters. None more then the other. Yet some subjects never end. Some subjects bring great division, among believers. And again many interpretations are different. Mostly what a person has been taught, and what denomination he comes from. We have athiest, many who are not saved, some that are, but don't know much about the Word of God, because maybe God has not revealed a certain topic to them. So many reasons.
Warwick, I ask a friendly question, "Why does the subject of the time of creation mean so much more to you then other subjects?" How does it impact your life more then other subjects?"
I ask because something moved you to answer the way you did. Not trying to start an argument.
---MarkV. on 9/19/09


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Alan of Uk-

According to the Ephiphanian (after St. Epiphanius of Slamis) view, the "Brothers and Sisters" mention in the NT were the children of Joseph's former marriage. It is the preferred exegesis of the Greek Fathers. This likely considering the commonly used Greek word for a male relative, adelphos, can mean "brother," "cousin," "kinsman", "fellow believer"(LXX). There is no reason to believe the "Brothers/Sisters" were Christ' biological siblings.

The same Fathers who discerned the canon of the NT, read Greek natively, and left us a model of reverence for the biblical texts are the same Fathers who called her "aeiparthenos" (ever-virgin).

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/18/09


Stevenq please recount your experiences and state your opinion, however when you write 'ALL denominations are a product of Satan.' you are wrong. You have not experienced all denominations, let alone all denominational churches. You insult committed Christians who attend denominational churches. This behavoiur places you in the unbalanced fringe dweller category.

You write 'They make you believe that you must join a "church" to get to heaven.' This is a ridiculous generalization.

Having preached the gospel in 600+ denominational churches I have never been criticized for saying salvation is a personal thing, beyond denominational affiliation. Not once. Can you match that level of denominational experience?
---Warwick on 9/19/09


\\
ALL denominations are a product of Satan.\\

That's true, Steve.

This includes the so-called "non-demoninational" churches that are nothing more than denominations of just ONE congregation.

All Reformation and post-reformation churches are denominational.

There are only a few of us here on these blogs who are members of the PRE-denominational Church.
---Cluny on 9/18/09


ALL denominations are a product of Satan.

False teachings started when Christ still walked the earth. Satan has had 2,000 years to infiltrate and corrupt the church, dividing it into thousands of denominations each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretaqtions of the bible. And who is the father of confusion? How much corruption can overtake the church in 2,000 years? Denominational "churches" are detrimental to a christians walk with God. They make you believe that you must join a "church" to get to heaven. Christianity is a 24/7 lifestyle - not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominational "churches."
---Steveng on 9/18/09


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Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" because your christian walk with God is a daily walk not a once a week visit to a building. One does not need to join a "church" to walk with God like denominational "churches" want you to believe for where two or more are gathered in Jesus' name there shall He be whether it's on the street corner, a park or at your local Starbucks.

By the way, the meaning of church is simply the body of christians, not a denomination, a building, or a nonprofit corporation. Jesus is return soon to join with (marry) His people, not a denomination, a building, or a nonprofit corporation.
---Steveng on 9/18/09


Cluny ... Highly unlikely!

If he was already a widower with children when jesus was born, why is there no mention of them in the Bible. Had Joseph relinquished care of them to someone else?

And Mary certainly did not die, leaving him a widower ... see John 19.25
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/18/09


Some churches teach that Jesus is not God. They say that Jesus is like a go between God and men, or a prophet. These are false religions, flee from such.
---Maria on 9/18/09


On threads where argument occurs over the earth's age, length of creation-days, or evolution, someone always bobs up saying-it doesn't matter! However these issues do matter as Christians who reject 6-day creation, beliving in an ancient earth/theistic evolution, with death before Adam's sin, wittingly or unwittingly undermine the gospel. They reject the straight-forward meaning of OT/NT Scripture.

People here argue over whether Jesus' brothers were his genetic brothers or brothers in spirit? How come someone is not saying-It does not matter?

Other threads go on forever about matters which are pointless and debatable, or do not affect our salvation.

As Scripture says you strain gnats from your wine but swallow camels.
---Warwick on 9/18/09


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Ruben // Which James is Paul talking about (in Gal. 1:19)?

You tell me! However, this particular James is called the Lord's brother. He was probably the James mentioned in Mt. 13:55

I suspect that this James was not one of the original 12, the same was true of Paul who called himself an apostle.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,...

And we read that there is an office of apostle.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

And then there are those 'false apostles' 2 Cor. 11:13
---lee on 9/18/09


||Who really has the Assumption?
---Ruben on 9/18/09||

The Most Holy Theotokos.
---Cluny on 9/18/09


Ga 1:19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lords brother.

The plain meaning of the texts leaves us with little choice than to accept the fact that Jesus had half brothers & sisters.


---lee on 9/17/09

In the Gospel of Matthew it list the apostles, here they are :

" Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee , and John his brother,

"Philip, and Bartholomew, Thomas, and Matthew the publican, James the son of Alphaeus , and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus,

"Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot"

If so plain as you say it is, Which James is Paul talking about? Who really has the Assumption?
---Ruben on 9/18/09


Lee* Mk. 3:31 And his mother and his brothers came,

MK 3:34 "And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brothers"

That's a whole lot of brothers!

*Lu 8:19 Then his mother and his brothers

Lu 8:21 "And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brothers are these which hear the word of God, and do it."

Likewise!

Joh 7:3 So his brothers said to him,

John 20:17-18 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brothers... Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples"

She did not received the memo about his brothers, I guess!
---Ruben on 9/18/09


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God's church was born on the day of Pentecost according to Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt 28 v's 19-20, Gal 1 v's 8-9. Straight is the gate & narrow is the way & be but few to find it.
False teachings started with r-catholocism the first trin-chuch with idol worship & then her off-spring churches, once saved always saved, no works salvation, the sinners prayer, you dont have to baptized to go to heaven but you do in order to be in my church(is man's church more important?), easy believism, repeat aft me etc <---All these with No sriptural basis. B R O A D is the way that leads to destruction & many it shall be. The god's of the muslams, buddha hindu etc will fall in line also.
---Lawrence on 9/18/09


\\ Cluny .... YOUR assumption makes Joseph and adulterer
---alan6566_of_uk on 9/18/09\\

No chance that he was a widower, was there?
---Cluny on 9/18/09


Jerry -

Then you must believe that the canon was not closed with the writings of the New Testament.

If you take that approach then obviously you cannot advocate the Bible as your ONLY guide. It is as simple as that.

This is the reason why a prominent Bible Society does not solicit members or support from the SDA.

The writings of White are on the same shelf as the Bible and are considered as authoritative.
---lee on 9/18/09


Lee:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,.... And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy:

Again, your prejudiced conjecture violates scripture.
---jerry6593 on 9/18/09


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Cluny .... YOUR assumption makes Joseph and adulterer
---alan6566_of_uk on 9/18/09


//But it does NOT follow they had only one mother among them.That is simply reading your assumption into the passage.

Mk. 3:31 And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him.

Lu 8:19 Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of the crowd.

Joh 7:3 So his brothers said to him, Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples also may see the works you are doing.

Ga 1:19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lords brother.

The plain meaning of the texts leaves us with little choice than to accept the fact that Jesus had half brothers & sisters.

Your view is the one that really requires an ASSUMPTION.
---lee on 9/17/09


||yes cluny, I can see that there are a few minor exceptions, however, again you need to consider the context and that is what translators are trained to do.
---lee on 9/16/09||

Taking your quote in context, it's clear the bystanders thought that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph.

But it does NOT follow that they had only one mother among them.

That is simply reading your assumption into the passage.
---Cluny on 9/17/09


//Let the Bible be your ONLY guide. Find the doctrines that line up with the ENTIRETY of scripture. Then find the denomination that lines up with the WHOLE Bible.

Jerry if the Bible is to be your ONLY guide then you need to leave the SDA because Article 18 of the SDA Fundamental beliefs clearly conflicts with that desire.

"One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. "
---lee on 9/17/09


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The Bible has the answers:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little:

Let the Bible be your ONLY guide. Find the doctrines that line up with the ENTIRETY of scripture. Then find the denomination that lines up with the WHOLE Bible.
---jerry6593 on 9/17/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Listen & Trust only in the indwelling of the Spirit of Truth to leads you into 'All Truth' of any teachings presented to you because you won't find one Denomination that is without the false teachings of the world's tares sown in them!!!

Many false prophets have gone out into every 'Wheat' field of each Christian Denomination to plant their 'Tares'. 1John4:1-3, Matt.13:24-30

So, Do as Paul wrote in Phil.1:15:19 and Stay vigilant in the growth of your relationship with the indwelling Spirit because this relationship is our "Works of Faith" which we're to maintain ourselves and not expect a denomination or anyone else to do it for us : Nor can they do it for us.
---Shawn.M.T. on 9/16/09


yes cluny, I can see that there are a few minor exceptions, however, again you need to consider the context and that is what translators are trained to do.
---lee on 9/16/09


||
Also your argument is really with those that have translated the Bible. If sisters & brothers really meant cousins, then why did the translators translate it as such. Did they lack knowledge of the languages of the Bible? ||

"You have ravished my heart, my sister, my love." This is in the Bible. Is it talking about incest, even though the word clearly means sibling?

Abraham called Lot his "brother", even though Lot was actually the nephew.

And so it goes.
---Cluny on 9/16/09


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cluny - ..Did their calling Jesus "Joseph's son" make Him Joseph's biological son?

It is the CONTEXT of the verses that tells us that Jesus had brother & sisters. He was called Joseph's son because He came from that family and was so recognized.

Also your argument is really with those that have translated the Bible. If sisters & brothers really meant cousins, then why did the translators translate it as such. Did they lack knowledge of the languages of the Bible?

Or are you simply forcing your theological views onto the passages?

I believe you are guilty of doing the latter.

Also James being referred to as the Lord's brother in the epistle is fairly convincing of a relationship.
---lee on 9/16/09


To make sure they are not teaching false teachings, here is what you need to know: Do they teach/preach ONLY the Bible, NOT what they think or feel? If they do not, then they are teaching/preaching lies.
---Leslie on 9/16/09


its not easy,constantly you must review the doctrine deliverd by those in authority.But they must teach christ crucified,repentence,lordship in jesus alone,that he is the only way to heaven through conviction of the holy spirit aka being born again.
---tom2 on 9/16/09


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