ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Man Made Church Traditions

What are some doctrines that are not bible based, but man made?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The False Traditions Bible Quiz
 ---Donna66 on 9/15/09
     Helpful Blog Vote (5)

Post a New Blog



Rhonda, you may be right in some aspects, that KJV was translated into different languages. However, I have friends with Wycliffe Bible Translaters, and I will ask them if what you say is true, that they use only KJV to translate from. However, you are still wrong that KJV is only "Offical Word of God."
Furthermore, I know for a fact that when they translate that they don't go "word for word" from KJV. They learn the language and try to communicate the concepts from scripture. It is an issue with translaters, do they try word for word, or concept upon concept? It's an interesting delimna for them. Many of the indigenous peoples don't understand Biblical culture ideas, so translaters look for similar concepts to relate to.
---Rod4Him on 9/28/09


If they are translating the KIJV (properly known as the Authorised Version) into other languages, they are ascribing greater inspiration to that version than they are to the original texts.

And that must be wrong.

Any translation into any language should be from the original texts.

What happens in Greece? Original Greek texts translated 400 years ago into English, then in the 20th century translated back into Greek? Same occurring for texts originally in Aramaic or Hebrew?

Go on with yuo!
What nonsense that would be!
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/28/09


Rhonda -- Of course I realize that the KJV has been translated multiple times into multiple languages. But these are TRANSLATIONS of the KJV, no longer the KJV itself.

My point was that "The King James Version" properly refers ONLY to one particular ENGLISH version, commissioned by King James who spoke English. He did not commission the Bible to be translated into Swahili, or Tamil or Navajo. If HE HAD, you could call those Bibles the "King James Version" too.
---Donna66 on 9/28/09


Thanks Donna for starting my day by putting a smile on my face.
I suppose people get very traditional in thinking KJV is the only God given version, and they attach some feeling/emotion to KJV.
Many times I don't contribute to some blogs because you have already accurately and concisely said what needed to be said.
Good day to you.
---Rod4Hime on 9/28/09


Kelly -
//Anything not found in the Holy Bible (King James, New King James) is man-made.//

Does this mean than anyone who doesn't know English cannot hear the Word of God?
*****

and this reasoning helps to????

Donna for some time now KJV has been printed in a multitude of languages ...you didn't know this? ...you see the printing press was invented way back several hundred years ago making it easy to create the same book in many dozens of languages

it is by Gods Holy Spirit one HEARS the Word of God ...although there are few on this blog who feel God hears better in Greek than English they are sadly deceived

...the book called the Bible is a collection of books simply THE WRITTEN Word of God
---Rhonda on 9/28/09




Kelly -
//Anything not found in the Holy Bible (King James, New King James) is man-made.//

Does this mean than anyone who doesn't know English cannot hear the Word of God?
---Donna66 on 9/27/09


//Anything not found in the Holy Bible (King James, New King James) is man-made.

Does that necessarily mean that everything that is man-made bad?

There is much that the Bible does not mention such as what those traditions Paul told us to keep.

2 Th. 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
---lee on 9/27/09


Anything not found in the Holy Bible (King James, New King James) is man-made.
---Kelly on 9/27/09


Man made tradition is everywhere.If you believe in the Word of God,the Holy Spirit can give the understanding of being likeminded and Humbled.
Phil2(all of it)
Christ Jesus,who being in the form of God and thought it not robbery to be equal to God,But made Himself of no reputation,and took upon Him the form of a servant,and was made in the likeness of men.

The Word first,then the Teacher...The Spirit of God who guides and leads into ALL TRUTHS
John 14-16,1Cor 2
The raw language,Hebrew,aramaic,Greek when
studied and learned,gives the Holy Spirit the virgin word to teach and confirm.
God knows His Word and will expose influences of mans traditions in the translations.
Concerning them that seduce you.
1John 2:27
---chae on 9/27/09


Donna, The RCC leaders did a terrible job with the Word of God. It became idolatrous when it began to distort the doctrine of God's character. Paul declared to the Romans, idolatry consist in exchanging the glory of God for a lie, elevating the creature and denigrating the Creator. He goes on to say, "professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptable God into an image made like corruptable man-and birds, four-footed beasts and creepting things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleaness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchange the Truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen"
---MarkV. on 9/26/09




Donna 2 continue:
Because of this idolatrous behavior, many doctrines were created by the RCC to a-company this substitution. Justification by faith and works, purgatory, works for salvation, all are men-centered. Replacing God has become a normal thing in the RCC. The ultimate form of idolatry is humanism, which regards man as the measure of all things. Man is the primary concern, the central focus, the dominant motif of all forms of humanism. This is so strong and pervasive that it is seeking to infiltrate all Christianity, in many denominations now. Salvation by works. And many here who are not even Catholic are buying into that religion theory. Everyday I go against that very same idolarious believes.
---MarkV. on 9/26/09


Metaphors in John.

1. He was the light (metaphor).

2. He was the lamb (metaphor) of God.

3. Destroy this temple (metaphor).

4. The serpent (Simile) was lifted up.

5. Whoever drinks of the water (metaphor).

6. Fields (metaphor) are white for harvest.

7. He (John Baptist) was the lamp (metaphor) that was shining.

8. Jesus is the bread (metaphor).They said, give us this bread (metaphor) [just like the women at the well}.

9. If any man is thirsty (metaphor).

10. Enter by the door (metaphor).
11.I am the door (metaphor).

12. I am the Good Shepherd (metaphor).

13. I am the True Vine (metaphor), you're the branches (metaphor).

14. Tend my lambs (metaphor).
---Rod4Him on 9/25/09


\\\\So far, even with Pelosi and Biden, you have brought up no examples of personal dislike.

I shall await your research, but I won't hold my breath.

Remember--the key issue is "personal dislike", which are your own words.
---Cluny on 9/24/09\\\\

Allow me to clarify something:

Actively supporting stands that go against the teaching of the Church, or causing scandal, is NOT the same thing as "personal dislike."
---Cluny on 9/25/09


\\ //Can you give SPECIFIC examples of communion being withheld simply on the basis of personal dislike?

There is a movement within the Roman church today in this country to refuse communion to those who are pro-choice luminaries such as speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, and Vice President Joe Biden ...

Throughout history the Popes have placed bans on various principalities ...
---lee on 9/24/09\\

YOu were the one who brought up personal dislike for witholding communion.

So far, even with Pelosi and Biden, you have brought up no examples of personal dislike.

I shall await your research, but I won't hold my breath.

Remember--the key issue is "personal dislike", which are your own words.
---Cluny on 9/24/09


"....the Roman church....refuse communion to those who are pro-choice luminaries" (lee)

And they do this not because they want to damn them to hell or dislike, but because the Roman Church, as well as many Protestant sects, and the Eastern Churches, practice Closed Communion. A similar incident have happened here in NYC, when former mayor, Rudy Giuliani, caught taking communion, even though he was not suppose to because he was Pro-Choice and had recently made a agreement with former Catholic Archbishop of New York.

The Roman Church do not give Communion to Non-Catholics (there are exceptions) and even those "Catholics" who do not abide to Catholic teachings or who are excommunicated.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/25/09


Hi Ruben, Jesus' words in John 6:63 explains, "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." I don't how Jesus could be any clearer. However, I do agree with you that the spirit is not symbolic,
---Rod4Him on 9/24/09

Hi Rod, Jesus said "The words that I speak to you are Spirit", since we both agree that Spirit is not symbolic then his words are not symbolic. Where does Jesus say that his Flesh and Blood are symbolic? "This bread is my Flesh which I will give to the world"(Jhn 6:51)Did not Jesus give us his Flesh on the cross? And you are right, I don't know how Jesus can be any clearer.
---Ruben on 9/24/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


Hi Ruben, Jesus' words in John 6:63 explains, "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." I don't how Jesus could be any clearer. However, I do agree with you that the spirit is not symbolic, the flesh and blood are symbolic of what happens spiritually. We partake of Christ spiritually. Those that worship Him will worship in spirit and in truth. Water is used symbolically in John, whoever drinks of the spirit will never thirst. Bread is used symbolically, Christ is the bread from heaven. Our life in Christ is a spiritual happening. Rituals and such have pagan origins. Christianity, as we know it, tends to copy the world's system of things.
---Rod4Him on 9/24/09


//Can you give SPECIFIC examples of communion being withheld simply on the basis of personal dislike?

There is a movement within the Roman church today in this country to refuse communion to those who are pro-choice luminaries such as speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, and Vice President Joe Biden - both claiming to be good Catholics. Do the google and you will see what I mean.

Throughout history the Popes have placed bans on various principalities that have refused compliance to papal directives by forbidding the Eucharist. If you really want accounts, I can do the research.
---lee on 9/24/09


Cluny: Have you figured out what day it is where you are yet?
---jerry6593 on 9/24/09


\\
In former times the ecclesiastical establishment withheld communion from those whom they disliked having taught that without taking of the Eucharist, your soul would be damned.\\

Let's see.

Can you give SPECIFIC examples of communion being withheld simply on the basis of personal dislike?

As in names, dates, and where?

I shall wait with interest.
---Cluny on 9/23/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


In context, John 6:63 explains, "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

---Rod4Him on 9/23/09

Than please explain to me, why would Jesus tell us to eat his flesh at least 4 to 5 times and then tell us his flesh profits nothing? Also you will find that the word Spirit is never use symbolic, so what are the words that Jesus is talikg about "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."(Jhn 6:54-55)
---Ruben on 9/23/09


Boy, ya'll are getting deep here and you know you are going to upset some people who don't understand the truth of the flesh(bread, WORD) and the blood(spirit).
The think that wine and crackers is transfigured into Christ. That is why we need the Holy Spirit to teach us all truth.
The Holy Spirit has revealed this to you not man!
If it were left up to man, we would still believe that nonsense. Jesus was certainly NOT talking about canibalism!
---miche3754 on 9/23/09


// People confuse "bread (flesh)and wine (blood)" with physical and don't understand the spiritual nature of the God/man relationship.

And old superstitions really die hard!

In former times the ecclesiastical establishment withheld communion from those whom they disliked having taught that without taking of the Eucharist, your soul would be damned. John 6:53f

This belief that the bread & wine were the actually body of Christ necessary for salvation was one created by the clergy for no other purpose than to control the masses who were in general unlearned and naive.
---lee on 9/23/09


//To say, "Keep the traditions...other matters concerning the Eucharist," is horrible exegesis. It's eisegeses!

In case Cluny and others do not know the difference -

Exegesis = 1. analysis of texts: the explanation or interpretation of texts, especially religious writings
2. interpretation of specific text: an explanation or interpretation of a specific text, especially a religious one

Eisegeses = the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas

And this is why we have been warned by scholars not to read into the writings of the early church fathers our own preconceived theology of the Eucharist.

---lee on 9/23/09


Locate Education Jobs


In John 6, Jesus teaches that He is flesh and the blood. Many people had trouble with His statements, so Jesus explained His words later to His disciples, as He did with many of His parables.
In context, John 6:63 explains, "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."
Believers are to be found in Christ, and "Christ in me, the hope of glory." The woman at the well confused physical water with spiritual water. People confuse "bread (flesh)and wine (blood)" with physical and don't understand the spiritual nature of the God/man relationship.
---Rod4Him on 9/23/09


Ignat-**"We should be cautious about interpreting such expressions in a modern fashion...."

That is exactly my position as stated.

I cannot find anything in the early church fathers that they developed any concrete theology concerning the Eucharist.

And as I stated before, we should simply partake of it in the most worthy manner as our Lord commanded, there is no requirement to believe anything concerning the consecrated elements.
---lee on 9/23/09


Lee* Nowhere in the Bible

I disagree with you . The Apostles and Paul both were told by Jesus how to minister the Eurcharist. Besides if you are going on nowhere in the Bible, well why do you believe in the books of the Bible?

Lee* if the elements bread & wine are transformed - then we are forced to acknowledge a miracle has occurred without any verification.

I guess we can call you a doubting Thomas!

Lee* despite our lack of understanding & disagreement we are commanded to partake of the Eucharist in a more respectful and reverent way

And how much more can you respect and reverent than believing Jesus own words "Take and eat it, This is my Body"(Mt 26:26)
---Ruben on 9/23/09


Cluny, you have a miss interpretation and application of "keeping the traditions." Traditions, when it is used in I Corin. 1:2 is not in the context of "Eucharist." That is plain wrong. If someone is interested, please read the context.
Concerning the matters Paul will set in order appears to do with other matters that he has not talked about.
The Lord's supper, which I assume you call "Eucharist," is described as a meal in I Corin. 11. Again, anyone in question about this issue, please read the whole chapter and preferably the whole book.
To say, "Keep the traditions...other matters concerning the Eucharist," is horrible exegesis. It's eisegeses!
---Rod4Him on 9/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


"it is very easy to take a preconceived theology of the Eucharist and read it back into their comments and teachings." (Lee)

Like you just did? You mention how certain Fathers said the Eucharist was "symbols" or "figures", however, Renowed Protestant Scholar J.N.D Kelly, and other Church Historians/Scholars, will stop you right there and warn you with the following:

"We should be cautious about interpreting such expressions in a modern fashion. According to the ancient modes of thought a mysterious relationship existed between the thing symbolized and its symbol, figure or type, the symbol in some sense was the thing symbolized." (Early Christian Doctrines, page 212)

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/23/09


\\Nowhere in the Bible do we see any kind of command or instruction concerning who may or may not perform the Eucharist\\

In fact, in his instructions about celebrating the Eucharist, St. Paul first congratulates the Corinthians in keeping the TRADITIONS just as he had delivered them.

And then (after correcting abuses), on the same subject, he said, "And the rest I will set in order when I come."

So in these passages, you see the Bible itself telling you that it doesn't contain all the information needed on celebrating the Eucharist.
---Cluny on 9/22/09


Nowhere in the Bible do we see any kind of command or instruction concerning who may or may not perform the Eucharist.

And if the elements bread & wine are transformed into the very body of Jesus - a theory (or mere superstition) called transubstantiation - then we are forced to acknowledge a miracle has occurred without any verification.

In any case, despite our lack of understanding & disagreement we are commanded to partake of the Eucharist in a more respectful and reverent way and there is NO REQUIREMENT that we believe the elements are transformed at the murmuring of some ecclesiastical leader.

There has always been a conflict between faith & what we may conceive of as reality.
---lee on 9/22/09


Lee* Ruben - Interpretation of the Eucharist in the writings of the Fathers must be done with great caution for it is very easy to take a preconceived theology of the Eucharist and read it back into their comments and teachings.

Which you do, and I will show you...continue!
---Ruben on 9/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


Clement of Alexandria viewed the elements simply as symbols of the body & blood of Christ,

---lee on 9/22/

What most anti-catholic try to do and Lee is no exception is search through ECF for passage that contain words like "Symbol" and "figure" and completely ignore their most clear-cut passage on the Real Presense and disregard the rest of what they wrote. And he calls himself a true believer in Church history, go figure! Jesus himself use symbol and signs for example Jesus said "no signs will be given except the sign of the prophet Jonah" and knock down this temple and in three days I will raise it up", I believe Lee knows that a sign can become a reality, right!
---Ruben on 9/22/09


Lee* Justin Martyr wrote the elements when consecrated, became the body & blood of Jesus, but yet in his Dialogue with Trypho, viewed the elements as simply a memorial & remembrance of his body & blood.

br>
Are you talking about this dialogue:

Moreover, as I said before, concerning the sacrifices which you at that time offered, God speaks through Malachi [1:10-12]...It is of the SACRIFICES offered to him in every place by us, the Gentiles, that is, of the bread of the Eucharist and likewise of the cup of the Eucharist, that He speaks at that time, and He says that we glorify His name, while you profane it. (Dialogue with Trypho 41)
---Ruben on 9/22/09


\\ The light of new Jerusalem will be the Lord Jesus Christ himself! How will you tell night and day? Perhaps you'll have a gold dial on your wrist with real jewel movement----who knows?\\

Since we will be fully drawn up in the ZOE ANOINE life of God Himself, there will also be no time, and hence, no time to pass.
---Cluny on 9/22/09


Ruben - Interpretation of the Eucharist in the writings of the Fathers must be done with great caution for it is very easy to take a preconceived theology of the Eucharist and read it back into their comments and teachings.

The Didache for instance, simply refered to the Lords Supper as spiritual food & drink.

Justin Martyr wrote the elements when consecrated, became the body & blood of Jesus, but yet in his Dialogue with Trypho, viewed the elements as simply a memorial & remembrance of his body & blood.

Clement of Alexandria viewed the elements simply as symbols of the body & blood of Christ, like Tertullian were not the physical but simply spiritual realities. No transubstantiation.



---lee on 9/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


The light of new Jerusalem will be the Lord Jesus Christ himself! How will you tell night and day? Perhaps you'll have a gold dial on your wrist with real jewel movement----who knows? Ours is not to reason why ours is but to do and die(or be raptured) and arrive in that city foursquare 1500 miles foursquare!!!!
Oh I feel like praiseing the Lord!!! Glory hallelujah to his name, thank you Jesus thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!
---mima on 9/22/09


||"Since there is no sun OR moon OR night in the New Jerusalem, how will you know what day of the week it is?"

There is to be a new heaven AND a new earth.
---Steveng on 9/21/09||

But it specifically says there is NO sun and NO night.

So you've still not explained how you tell one day from the next.
---Cluny on 9/22/09


Cluny: "The day of the week is determined by the rotation of the earth on its axis in relation to the sun--plus the fact that when its Saturday on some parts of the earth, it's Friday or Sunday elsewhere."

People today - especially christians - are just too knowledgeable in an earthly way for their own good. Reading these post on these blogs attest to that.

"Since there is no sun OR moon OR night in the New Jerusalem, how will you know what day of the week it is?"

There is to be a new heaven AND a new earth.
---Steveng on 9/21/09


Lee* As to the Eucharist, there was not unanimity among the early fathers according to some church historians today.

JND Kelly's Summary of the Ante-Nicene Fathers

"....the eucharist was regarded as the distinctively Christian SACRIFICE from the closing decade of the first century, if not earlier.Early Christian Doctrines, page 196-198, 214)



---Ruben on 9/21/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


"so please enlighten us almighty cluny what are indulgences then will you play with your never ending merry-go-round of word spin" (Rhonda)

Please Rhonda, please enlighten all of us here by providing at least two unbiased, secular historical books that confirm your understanding of what indulgences were. If not two, at least one reputable historical book.

Personally, I will say to search authentic Catholic sources of what Indulgences were not what Anti-Catholic say it was.

As a non-Catholic, I could care less what Indulgences were, but since you bought it up, it is your responsibility to back up your statements with historical books.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/20/09


\\per history this is what indulgences WERE\\

Since I'm not Roman Catholic, Rhonda, it's not my place to say what indulgences were, but simply to say that your impression of them is inaccurate.

If you really want to know, you can look it up in Roman Catholic sources.

As far as the rest of your response, I suggest you meditate on Galatians 5:22 ff, and compare these verses with your responses.

Do they display these fruits?
---Cluny on 9/20/09


Doctrine about acceptance prayer is the way to save, Hell a place of eternal torment if untrue, attendance of Lord Supper and Baptism, all of this are man made doctrines.
---rosalie on 9/19/09


Which is not what indulgences are. But I realize truth means nothing when it's time to play BTC
****

and by your "playtime" claim it "isn't" YET don't state what they "are" ...per history this is what indulgences WERE ...what rcc has changed them to (seeing they CHANGE their reasoning by the season with their mortal men at play) would be today's newest latest greatest pagan way of paying for one's sins via MONEY ...when my sister in law died her catholic church had members of her family PAY for a special reading maybe not indulgences but cha-chin for the church

so please enlighten us almighty cluny what are indulgences then will you play with your never ending merry-go-round of word spin
---Rhonda on 9/19/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---Wayne8738 on 9/19/09


Cluny //Since there is no sun OR moon OR night in the New Jerusalem, how will you know what day of the week it is?

Ellen White will be given a big hour glass and when the sand runs out on Friday night she will ring a big gong and everyone will stop working and observe the Jewish Sabbath.
---lee on 9/19/09


Axey: "Can you show even a single verse that calls the Sabbath the Lord's Day?"

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Got one for Sunday?
---jerry6593 on 9/19/09


cluny: "Saturday on some parts of the earth, it's Friday or Sunday elsewhere."

It's a local thing. I'll bet even you know what day it is where you are!
---jerry6593 on 9/19/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


Cluny ... it won't matter. We won't be working so won't need to rest. & we will be worshipping God 24/7, although as you say there will be enither day nor night

But I don't follow what Michael says: "'The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath" Does he mean we are not allowed NOW to work because the Sabbath rest IS perpetual?
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/19/09


With regard to the identification of the "brothers and sisters" of Jesus mentioned in the New Testament, Mary in the New Testament: A Collaborative Assessment by Protestant and Roman Catholic Scholars reached the following agreed conclusions:
1. The continued virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus is not a question directly raised by the New Testament.
2. Once it was raised in subsequent church history, it was that question which focused attention on the exact relationship of the "brothers" (and "sisters") to Jesus.
3. Once that attention has been focused, it cannot be said that the New Testament identifies them without doubt as blood brothers and sisters and hence as children of Mary.

In IC.XC.,
---ignatius on 9/19/09


Through the years I have learned most denominations are founded on the traditions of men which are contrary to God's Truths.
---Rob on 9/19/09


\\And it will continue forever as written in Revelation.\\

The weekly Sabbath is determined by the day of the week. (Keep in mind that "Sabbath" means more than this).

The day of the week is determined by the rotation of the earth on its axis in relation to the sun--plus the fact that when its Saturday on some parts of the earth, it's Friday or Sunday elsewhere.

Since there is no sun OR moon OR night in the New Jerusalem, how will you know what day of the week it is?
---Cluny on 9/18/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


'The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances:'-Justin Martyr to Trypho 1st century
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---MIchael on 9/18/09


Why do christians think that the Sabbath is for the Jewish people? The Sabbath was blessed by God on the seventh day of creation, thousands of years before the Jewish people became a people. And it will continue forever as written in Revelation.
---Steveng on 9/18/09


francis:

Can you show even a single verse that calls the Sabbath the Lord's Day? I couldn't find even a single verse in the entire bible that includes both "sabbath" and "Lord's Day" or "Day of the Lord".

The phrases "Sabbath of the Lord" and "Sabbath unto the Lord" do occur, but they are not the same thing.
---StrongAxe on 9/18/09


Ruben - **And the Early Church Fathers were also unanimous on the Eucharist, Infant Baptism and Baptismal Regeneration which you disagree with...

As to the Eucharist, there was not unanimity among the early fathers according to some church historians today.

Apparently the very earliest church did hold to baptismal regeneration, we see that from Paul's discussion in 1 Cor. 15 where he addresses the thing about baptism for the dead.However, later theologians rejected it because such belief conflicted with other scripture.

Regeneration is an sovereign act of the Holy Spirit alone and a man cannot force that Being into or unto anyone. And that makes the Roman Church sacrament invalid as for as ones spiritual birth in concerned.
---lee on 9/18/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


All references found in the writings of the early church refer to Sunday as the Lord's day.

That leave us with very little reason to believe that the Jewish Sabbath is the Lord's day.
---lee on 9/17/09

And the Early Church Fathers were also unanimous on the Eucharist, Infant Baptism and Baptismal Regeneration which you disagree with...It's funny when you try to use them as your backup!
---Ruben on 9/18/09


//All references found in the writings of the early church refer to Sunday as the Lord's day."Bunk! The writings of the "early church" is called the New Testament.

Yes, Jerry you are really up a tree on this issue as you must limit your source to only the NT documents and then interpret them NOT in the way the immediate successors of the Apostles did.

Apparently you believe that the devil took over the church immediately upon the death of the Apostles and their immediate successors lost the truth immediately. And then God had to send Ellen White to bring the church back into obedience. BUNK!
---lee on 9/18/09


larry
James 2 V's 20 & 26, Mark 16 v 16 baptism is a work even maintaining Salvation, Luke 16 v 16 pressing is a work, Acts 26 v 22 witnessing is a work, 1st Tim 2 v 10, Titus 2 v 7, even others.
---Lawrence on 9/18/09


"All references found in the writings of the early church refer to Sunday as the Lord's day."

Bunk! The writings of the "early church" is called the New Testament. In it, Jesus Himself claims to be the Lord of the Sabbath Day - not the Sun-Day. What mere man has the power or authority to change God's Commandment and make another day holy?

Dan 7:25 And he [Antichrist] shall ..... think to change times and laws:
---jerry6593 on 9/18/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


All references found in the bible refers to the Lord's day as sabbath. Ami to beieve that God has changed his law? HEBREWS13:8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.
To me, and millions of seventhday adventist, it is a strange doctrine for anyone to teach that sunday is the Lord's day.Ifthe bible is true and jesus did not come to change the laws, and jesus is the same and we are not to be deceived by strange and different doctrines, those who think that sunday is the lords day are worhiping in vain. Because the bible says IN VAIN DO THE WORSHIP TEACHING FOR DOCTRINE THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.
---francis on 9/18/09


jerry6593:

Could you please cite chapter and verse in which the Lord says that Sunday is NOT the Lord's Day?

(Note: I also challenge anyone to find a verse that shows that the Sabbath and the Lord's Day are one and the same).
---StrongAxe on 9/18/09


All references found in the writings of the early church refer to Sunday as the Lord's day.

That leave us with very little reason to believe that the Jewish Sabbath is the Lord's day.
---lee on 9/17/09


Lawrence- no works salvation a man-made tradition?
Salvation is NOT of works.

Works is a RESULT of your salvation not the ADVENT or IMPETUS of salvation. Islam is works based, we are faith-based knowing we could never obtain salvation as a result of our works. You err.
---larry on 9/17/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


\\ That Sunday is the Lord's day - a contradiction to the Lord's own words.
---jerry6593 on 9/17/09\\

Which day do we get to keep in an unholy manner since Jesus came?
---Cluny on 9/17/09


Just a helpful remainer:

While marriage is not allowed for all Latin Catholic Priests before entering in the Holy Order, Eastern Catholic Churches, in communion with the Roman Pope, still practice the Ancient practice of allowing married men to enter into the Holy Order. A Priest in the Eastern Catholic Rite can be married but must be before their ordination.

Rhonda, please cite a unbiased, secular historical book that can backed up your statements concerning the origin of Latin Catholic Priests not being allowed to be married. Thank-you.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/17/09


That Sunday is the Lord's day - a contradiction to the Lord's own words.
---jerry6593 on 9/17/09


I just wanted to point out that when "doctrine" is used in NT, it is referring to behavior. Good doctrine means to have good actions.
Most people get used to doctrine meaning a statement of faith. I wanted to point that out because when people read "good doctrine" in the NT, they tend to think that the NT is saying to have correct statements of faith, which is also important.

So, a false statement of faith is that no one can be saved unless he/she is baptized.

Another false teaching is that the Holy Scriptures and Holy Tradition are of equal value, and that they complete each other.
---Rod4Him on 9/16/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


Pre-Trib Rapture, Bible Alone, Bible interpret itself, Roman Papacy, Purgatory, Filoque, Immaculate Conception, Zwingli doctrine on the Eucharist, Calvinism, etc.

Others (the following are heresies) include, but are not limited: Scythism, Hellenism, Phythagoreans, Platonists, Epicureans, Samaritanism, Gnostics, Carpocrations, Cerinthians, Nazarenes, Ebionites, Valentinians, Marcoseans, Cerdonians, Marcionists, Encratites, Cataphrygians, Sabellians, Origenians, Paulianists (followers of Paul of Samosata), Manichaeans, Arians, Photinians, Sermiarians, Pneumatochi (Macedonians), Antidicomarianites, Collyridians, Nestorians, Monophysites, Eutychians, Donatists, Monothelites, Iconoclasm.

Google these sects if you wish.

In IC.XC,
---Ignatius on 9/16/09


Cluny:

Did those married priests marry after they became Catholic priests? Or were they married first?
---StrongAxe on 9/17/09


Man-made salvation teachings once saved always saved, repeat aft me, no works salvation, say the sinners prayer, you dont have to be baptized to be saved but have to be baptized to attend my church etc. These have No scriptural basis. This All started with r-catholocism the first trin-church & all the offspring trin-churches fallowed along.
---Lawrence on 9/17/09


\\real reason priests do not marry goes back to middle ages when rcc collected indulgences by preying on simple-minded of time to give them money to absolve their sins ...rcc became very wealthy with this practice still used today ...if priests married then money could be passed down to wife and children - no marriage keeps all wealth with rcc\\

Which is not what indulgences are. But I realize truth means nothing when it's time to play BTC.

And I happen to know several married Catholic priests. There are three alone in my city. Two of them are pastors of parishes.

(Note I said CATHOLIC, not Orthodox.)
---Cluny on 9/16/09


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


Roman Catholic priests CAN'T be married. This is to allow them more time with their parishes
*****

real reason priests do not marry goes back to middle ages when rcc collected indulgences by preying on simple-minded of time to give them money to absolve their sins ...rcc became very wealthy with this practice still used today ...if priests married then money could be passed down to wife and children - no marriage keeps all wealth with rcc

born again today is not based on scripture which describes born again as an inheritance and promise at Christs return

pagan easter/Ishtar not found in scripture in place of Christ as the passover
---Rhonda on 9/16/09


Donna:

There are several in the Roman Catholic church that sound "good" in principle, but I don't think that the Bible mentions anything about them:

Roman Catholic priests CAN'T be married. This is to allow them more time with their parishes.

Roman Catholic priests are called FATHER. This is a title that is reserved for the most Holy.

No meat on Fridays during the season of Lent. This is healthiest for the body.

Only MEN can be priests. WOMEN are nuns.

The church officers: Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop, Bishop, Priest
---Sag on 9/15/09


There are so very many that they cannot be listed and explained in the small amount of space here, but the most devastating to the HUMAN MIND is...

"SELF abasement" (Colossians 2:18, Romans 12:2).

This is usually taught as SURRENDER. The vanity (VAIN ego/pride) of churchgoers is why it is believed that "surrender" is good (everybody wants to be a hero/martyr...vanity).

The reason that God warns against self abasement is that if we abase SELF (forfeit identity), we will no longer be able to think and reason as a free thinking human being (dehumanizing/demoralizing).

The heavenly Father's true name (His "forever" name) is "I am who I am" (Exodus 3:14).
---more_excellent_way on 9/15/09


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.