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Who Are The Real Jews

Who are the true Jews? The Idumeans (from Esau lineage converted in 135bc) and Khazars (from turkey lineage coverted around 700ad) both are converted jews. Right now the Khazars offspring are occupying modern Israel state.
Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, says these are not the real jews.

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The real Jews are from Jesus, and the nonreal Jews are from Adam.
---Eloy on 10/24/09


Is there a DNA test for this? What about a DNA test for real Americans?
---atheist on 10/23/09


I think the true Jews are those who have accepted Christ as their Savior. Jesus said that when we accept Him we become His mother,sister or brother. This makes us true children of God and by adoption by Christ - Jews since Christ was born a Jew.
I never have been prejudiced as God says we are all the same in his eyes -- sinners until we are born again. Think about this the next time you are tempted to put someone down.

cj
---Clovia on 10/23/09


The only key thing that has kept us from knowing the exact day of judgement has been the lack of the knowledge of time from creation to now.

Well we have figured it out and it's all in the bible.
---metuschelah on 10/23/09

To be a false prophet is to spell your own doom. Easy to figure find well.

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Acts 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
---Trav on 10/23/09


Trav, I have read both passage in context and no where do I find a wall of any kind mentioned. Not in Hebrews 8:8 or Jer. 31:31-37. It does mention that the house of Judah and the house of Israel, that this covenant will be better then the last since this one is an internal Covenant, of the heart and mind, while the last one was the Covenant of law and was primarily external, of works. The old one could not save them but the new one could. The old Covenant was only intended to be temporary.
That's the reason why they were separated and now will be married to Him. But we are talking about the elect only. Those whom God has chosen to be born of the Spirit. And not every single person whether chosen or not.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09




more_excellent_way 9/19/09

You misunderstand what it means to be in Christ and to be a Jew.

Rm2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly,
and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit,
and not in the letter,...

Gal3:29
And if ye be Christ's,
then are ye Abraham's seed,
and heirs according to the promise.

Eph2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ,
being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope, and without God in the world:

They are no longer aliens/strangers...but are now part of Israel through Christ so that they can be an heir to the promise made to Abraham by God.
---SuzieH on 10/23/09


Jews are not from the TRIBE of Judah, they are from the NATION of Judah. Paul who is from the Tribe of benamin is a jew. There are some Jews aho are levites also

But the real jews are all those who have accepted crist.
---francis on 10/23/09


Trav, you are speculating what is not there at all, Judah and the devorce houses is not found in the context. <---MarkV. on 10/22/09

Northern House..Divorced was "not a people" anymore. Gentile a word never in originals. Should be "ethnos" or "nations" referring to Nth House .

Scripture on divorce: Jer 3:8
I saw, when for all causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce,
Scripture on remarriage: Isaiah 62:4
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee,thy land shall be married
---Trav on 10/23/09


In response to MarkV
10/22/09
My name is the french version of Methuselah found in genesis 5:21, believe it or not I have know of at least two others with the same name, I thougt I was the only one with such a weird name. It's closest meaning is: a man with a mission or When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent, this acoording to Abarim Publications'
Biblical Name Vault.
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


Metushelah, I followed your four post comments and I am with you all the way to:
"Well we have figured it out and it's all in the bible"
And then finished with explaining what a parable is. Indicating that not everyone can know this parable about time. To indicate that only certain people know the time, but the whole Bible is not a parable.
While God is outside of time Himself, His decrees do unfold through what we call time. And if through time one of His decrees is that we should not know the day or the hour, how can He go against His own decree? Just not possible. If He had said it was a mystery that we would know later in time, then it would be different. But He never said that.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09




In response to MarkV
(part 5) 9/29/09
We are able to tract time through the bible when god gives us the birth of people and also how long the israelites were in the wilderness or how long a judge or a king reign, for instance genesis 5, genesis 11:10-32 it's all over the bible, but just to make it easier for you, you can order this free book "adam when" from family radio at 1800-543-1495 it depicts all the scriptures and lays it out for you. REMEMBER! god will do nothing without first revealing it to his servants including the timing of the end of the world which i would say is a great piece of information that we need to know (i.e)Isam 20:2, amos 3:7, Gen 18:17.
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


In response to MarkV
(part 4)- 9/29/09
The only key thing that has kept us from knowing the exact day of judgement has been the lack of the knowledge of time from creation to now. If one is a careful student of the bible you will come to see that god has put a calendar in the bible to help us keep tract of time because time has a beginning and an end. Well we have figured it out and it's all in the bible. REMEMBER god has used words/parables to hide the truth from those who are not chosen by him that no matter how much they read the bible they will not understand or pay attention to its truth because god did not open their eyes (i.e) mark 4:11-12, luke 8:10, john 12:40, act 28:26,mat 13:13 .
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


In response to MarkV
(part 3)-9/29/09
Now if you go back to genesis when the flood happened because that was the context in 2 pet 3, we see in gen 6:13 "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them, and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth". gen 7:4 "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


In response to MarkV
(part 1) 9/29/09
I did not forget you MarkV, To answer your question about how the specific day and year of the day of the rapture and judgment of the world came to be known, one has to remember the rule of first camparing scripture with scripture which is how the holy spirit teaches us(1cor2:13), if you go to 2 pet 3:3-8 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


In response to MarkV
(part 2) 9/29/09
continuation of 2pet 3:3-8.....For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(PAY CLOSE ATTENTION)But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that 1 day [is] with the Lord as 1000 years, and 1000 years as 1 day".
---metuschelah on 10/23/09


Hello brother Trav, you are silent. You might be busy to answer my rebuttal so I will wait ....concerning Middle wall of separation. blessings bro.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09

Gone all day yesterday, sorry. Rebuttal? Let scripture do pointing. I've no debate or argument with MarkV. I Only point to scripture for proof. Someone pointed. I looked. Scripture witnessed.
I like you had to have proof. Key wording "far off". This pertains to Northern House that was Divorced first.
Note: Far off in Isa 59:11, Micah 4:7, Ez 11:15-16
Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who (sometimes) were (far off) are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Sometimes= temporary condition.
Wall disolved in Heb8:8,Jer 31:31.
---Trav on 10/23/09


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Hello brother Trav, you are silent. You might be busy to answer my rebuttal so I will wait to read your answers concerning the Middle wall of separation. blessings bro.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09


Metuschelah, you did not answer my question on how you know the Second Coming is 11 months from now in 2011? a few clues will do so that I can check them. Its not for argument. Another question, what does your name mean? Does it have a meaning?
---MarkV. on 10/22/09


In response to trav-"Weakens a witness" (part one) 10/2/09
Before you interpret a passage for me make sure you ask me to expound/explain.
I know exactly what I meant by Jer 8:7, and it's not what your interpretation would have it to be.
This is what MY understanding of that passage is: The stork knows her appointed times and so does the turtle,the crane, the swallow, meaning they observe cues such as
changes in light exposure, seasonal temperature swings, circannual Rhythm .
Sea turtles probably use the geomagnetic field to orient their swim in the deep ocean, and also celestial cues.
---metuschelah on 10/22/09


In response to trav- "weakens a witness"
(part 2) 10/2/09
The animals of the field knows the cues/signs for when they are to migrate but those who call themselves the people of god don't seem to know their cues of when judgement shall be. Because (mark 13:32) says that they should not know, so they close the door on ever knowing. But they don't realize that it is a stumbling block because if one compares verses in the bible one would come to the realization that it contradicts a lot of passages in the bible that's because it is being interpretated wrong.
---metuschelah on 10/22/09


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In response to trav- "weakens a witness"
(part 3) 10/2/09
(mat16:2-3)"He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, [It will be] fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern/know the face of the sky, but can ye not [discern/know] the signs of the times?". When I see people waiting for some temple to be built in israel or the chip for the so called mark of the beast, I think to myself how blind/wicked these people are because the bible tells us who you are in (mat 16:4)
---metuschelah on 10/22/09


In response to trav- "weakens a witness"
(part 4) 10/2/09
(mat 16:4)"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed". If the so called people of god were really understanding/hearing the bible they would know everything about god's judgment upon the earth inckuding the knowledge of his coming which is also judgment day upon the earth, which is may 21, 2011.(prov 15:28) "The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things". (eccl 8:5) "and a wise man's heart discerneth/knows both time and judgment".
---metuschelah on 10/22/09


Trav, you are speculating what is not there at all, Judah and the devorce houses is not found in the context. He had just finished talking about Gentiles in the flesh v.11. having no hope and without God in the world.

The breaking down of the middle wall of separation has nothing to do with the devorce houses and the house of Judah. In fact this alludes to a wall in the temple that partitioned off the Court of the Gentiles from the areas accessibly only to Jews. Paul refered to that wall as symbolic of the social, religious, and spiritual separation that kept Jews and Gentiles apart. Through His death, Christ abolished OT ceremonial laws, feast, and sacrifices which uniquely separated Jews from Gentiles.
---MarkV. on 10/22/09


the middle wall of separation.. to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the Cross" (Eph. 2:11-16). Believing none-Jews were once Gentiles.
---MarkV. on 10/21/09

Mark, you are posting ole son....but not take the time to read or research. Look at the scripture you posted above a new man from the two....THE TWO SEPERATED HOUSES....Judah and divorced houses...making peace...one new man from two.
Heb 8:8 does not say: new Covenant with the House of Gentiles and Judah.
The middle wall of separation was the Divorce of this people 13 nations of Israel divided into two.
---Trav on 10/21/09


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Trav, when I mentioned context and all that stuff I meant just that. Each passage has its own context.
Many Jewish people welcomed their Messiah. All 12 disciples were Jewish. The Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost fell only on Jews. It was 3,000 Jews who were then baptized (Acts 2:5, 22,36,41,46) The early Church in Jerusalem was Jewish. Soon "a great many priest were obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7). Apart from Luke, the entire New Testament was written by Jews. The question then would be, "Should we call this group of Jewish believers in Jerusalem "Israel" or the "Church?" It is obvious they were both. Also consider this, when Spirit-filled Stephen looked back into history,
---MarkV. on 10/21/09


Trav 2 continue: what did Stephen call Israel in Moses time? He called Israel, "the Church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38). thus according to Stephen whose backward glance was enlightened by the Holy Ghost perception-Old Testament Israel was God's Church. Later years Paul wrote to believing Gentiles "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ, For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation.. to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the Cross" (Eph. 2:11-16). Believing none-Jews were once Gentiles.
---MarkV. on 10/21/09


"And they (individual Jewish people) also, If they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in" verse 23.
---MarkV. on 10/20/09
Romans 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,

MarkV...again all these verses in Rom 11, context is both houses of Israel. The wild Olive..Still an Olive.... a divorced olive/wife. It is not just Judah that is Israel. That is the point. Heb 8:8 confirms.....as do all prophets and thousands of other verses.
---Trav on 10/21/09


Trav, I am not one to dismiss Israel at all. When Paul spoke in Romans 11:26 of "all Israel will be saved" Many apply this to a mass conversion of Israelis at Armageddon. The context reveals otherwise. When Paul wrote that, 'all Israel will be saved" he didn't mean that at some point every Jewish person would find salvation. for in the same chapter he wrote, "If by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them" v.14. Again, in the same chapter, Paul declared, "And they (individual Jewish people) also, If they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in" verse 23.
---MarkV. on 10/20/09


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Trav 2 continue: "all Israel will be saved" the question I had was which Israel? Rember, "They are not all Israel who are of Israel" Romans 9:6. There is an "Israel after the flesh" 1 Cor. 10:18 and an "Israel of God" Galatians 6:16 made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. To apply the "all Israel" which "will be saved" to a group of Jews or Israelis who are separated from God's Church is to deny the works of Christ complishments on the Cross.
---MarkV. on 10/20/09


MarkV,
You went silent on me? No feed back on Israel.
You keep asking for the point on all this. Point is we dismiss Israel....the largest part because they are hidden from most. Christians first think that the jews are chosen even though they are Anti-Christ. They may not even be Judean! Christians think also they are still second class to the chosen.
When in fact they may be these very people mentioned in scripture.
To the discouraged, like me that were doubting Thomas'es....that the miracle and promises of GOD are true. Whether I am or not of the group.
Yes, man has tried to twist scripture in a few spots....but, light, truth cannot be hidden by men....unless GOD allows.
---Trav on 10/20/09


Trav, where in Revelation does it state that all Israel context comes together again? ---MarkV. on 10/18/09

Before Revelations you have two sticks read whole of Ez 37:
37:22 I will make them one nation in land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Made possible by, Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Context stated over 2318 times just in one word. Is-ra-EL. By their other names... add again,again,again,again. Quite revealing.
---Trav on 10/19/09


The real Jews are those who live in complete obedience to God's perfect will.
---Anne on 10/16/09

Couldn't remember which scripture you are referring too here Ann. Can you help? Two if you would.
---Trav on 10/19/09


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Are you suggesting that because the 12 tribe names were written on the wall, everyone was saved?
I am not trying to be difficult, just want to find out what you believe and from where do you get your information. ---MarkV. on 10/18/09
In the same context of this chapter verse 8 and
27 there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
You decide.
38.Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
85.Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
---Trav on 10/19/09


Trav, where in Revelation does it state that all Israel context comes together again? I am supposing you mean saved, right? Are you saying all of Israel is saved? Even the none elect? Passage please so that I can go over it. I have not found it.
Are you suggesting that because the 12 tribe names were written on the wall, everyone was saved?
I am not trying to be difficult, just want to find out what you believe and from where do you get your information. I will read the passages you give me.
---MarkV. on 10/18/09


The real Jews are those who live in complete obedience to God's perfect will.
---Anne on 10/16/09


In the case of Israel, you have different Israels, Nation of Israel, House of Israel, house of Judah, only elect of Israel.
So my question is to what perticular Israel are you speaking for, and for what reason? ---MarkV. on 10/15/09
You're are getting lost in detail.
Israel is Israel part or piece. Married or divorced. Where do you find them not?
Revelations says all Israel context comes together again. This is the point. Most exclude when the total context says it should not be done. Which makes a blind message or false doctrine.
Rev21:12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.
---Trav on 10/16/09


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Trav, I am not trying to be difficult, I promise. When you say 186 verses with the word sheep, and then you say if you pick three or four that makes a point. The only problem there is the four or five other verses might be speeking of sheep in another context, and another three or four another context. So when I ask what is your point, it means to whom are you refering to? In the case of Israel, you have different Israels, the Nation of Israel, the House of Israel, the house of Judah, only the elect of Israel. So my question is to what perticular Israel are you speaking for, and for what reason? Maybe I should have not ask to begin with because I thought it was a simple question but as I see now it wasn't. Sorry for the mix-up.
---MarkV. on 10/15/09


Trav,
Each passage does have a point, but what you are doing is pointing many points together.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09

Many (witnesses) points that come together belong together. Witnesses. Confirming Truth of a matter. Non Opinion. Non Doctrinal. Just Truth and light.

Lets take Sheep to make a contextual point.
189 times word is found.
Use two or more sheep verses that say same thing, for a GOD given/written/stated witness.

1.What is always in associated/in context with sheep?
2.Who are sheep,in scripture?
3.Where are sheep?
4.Why do sheep even matter?
---Trav on 10/15/09


MarkV, it is right under your nose!!! You just refuse to see!

Isaiah 29:19The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

20For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/09


Trav, I looked under my nose and I cannot find the point, only my upper lip. Am I wrong for asking? Tell me? Each passage does have a point, but what you are doing is pointing many points together. And yet I don't see your point or argment. are you saying Israel will be saved? Will not, get married again, devorced again, never reconcile again. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
---MarkV. on 10/14/09


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The true Jews or Israel are from the original 12 tribes of Jacob.

ALL else are called Proselytes. Proselytes are not TRUE Jews, but strangers and foreigners who joined tehmselves to Israel.

Sammy Davis JR said he was a Jew, because he converted to Judeasm. Wrong. Sammy Davis JR was a Proselyte, and never a true Jew, nor ever could be a true Jew.

Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, says these are not the real jews. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 are not talking about Esau's line or Ishmael's line, but those who claim to be Jews as Mormons, JW, Armstrongism, Calvinism etc misappropriating Truth.

We're not TRUE JEWS when we get saved, we are a New creature IN CHRIST...no longer Jew or Gentile!
---kathr4453 on 10/14/09


Why don't you just say, here is what I am saying and why. Then give Scriptures for each passage has its own context.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09

MarkV, if you don't see the point...there is no point-ing perhaps. Learning is in the searching.
I gave no parables. I've listed scripture for months. Scripture tells point.

I have pointed that the Scripture will stand on it's own...denomination free. Free of man there are witnesses for every "POINT".

Example of this is Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31 and a couple more.
Using a concordance the word Sheep, makes a point.
Vine makes a point. Fig makes a point. Context you search for....it's under your nose.
---Trav on 10/14/09


That's a different Larry, Trav as my last input on this question was in September.
I will refer to myself as Larry1 from now on. God bless.
---larry1 on 10/14/09


Trav, you speak in parables, you say people try to hide them, or don't mention them, and many other things but you don't give your point. What is your point? That there is Jews, no Jews, an Israel, no Israel, Judah, no Judah. No salvation, salvation for all, or only to the house of Israel, or the house of Judad, what is your point? There is a lot of diologue going on but you never mention what is your point.
Why don't you just say, here is what I am saying and why. Then give Scriptures for each passage has its own context.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09


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Their needs to be a study here of Judah and Israel because They are two different groups of people, because God will put the two sticks back together in 3rd earth age. read about it in valley of dry bones Ezekiel talks about
---larry on 10/12/09

You may find little interest, Larry. Which is scriptural.

Why find these people? In case they are one of them? Perhaps. Most want to hide them....note first translators of scripture. This is scriptural too. What GOD has hidden..hard to find.
29.Isaiah 42:16
I will bring the blind a way they knew not, I will lead them in paths they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.
---Trav on 10/13/09


A jew is a:

A: A resident of judea
B: of the tribe of Juda

Also Esau: Russia
Jacob: USA

Their needs to be a study here of Judah and Israel because They are two different groups of people, because God will put the two sticks back together in the 3rd earth age. read about it in the valley of dry bones the Ezekiel talks about
---larry on 10/12/09


now if (Isa 11:11) was really speaking of them, God would come up empty handed because he would find no remnant of the physical jews. ---metuschelah on 10/9/09

I would beware of this short logic. If GOD can create a universe...he can surely keep a people he loved. Whether I am or are not.

You assume because you or the History Channel cannot find them...GOD can't. Ha. Empty handed. Ha.

Man/woman who preaches errors, are you ever in for a surprise.
....shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah .....
What part of Outcasts do you understand? The Heb 8:8 part?
---Trav on 10/12/09


The Covenant was made to the House of Israel and with the house of Judah. Verse 31 explains that very clear. ---MarkV. on 10/10/09

O.K. you've stated it above. Here is your context from the beginning to the end of scripture.

Do you think that the words "everlasting", "for ever" are lies and not applicable today?
---Trav on 10/12/09


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Trav, I believe Jer. 31:35-37 three passages does not say those ordinances will depart, it says, "If" they could depart then the seed of Israel shall also cease. from being a nation before Me forever" But that is not possible with God. These verses emphasize the certainty with which Israel can expect God to fulfill the New Covenant (33:17-22, 25,26). The Covenant was made to the House of Israel and with the house of Judah. Verse 31 explains that very clear. In contrast to the Mosaic Covenant under which Israel failed, God promised a New Covenant with a spiritual divine by which those who know Him would participate in the blessings of salvation. The fulfillment was to individuals yet also to Israel as a nation
---MarkV. on 10/10/09


The real jews are both. When scripture says
Jew first and then the Gentile it was clearly to the reference to the decendants of the 12 tribes and the rest of us, for the gospel was in its infancy.
Later at Metuschelah points out in Thessalonians, the real Jew are those who are heirs by salvation- the requirement.
At the conclusion of our time when the veil is lifted the physical Jews, they will believe and become powerful witnesses.seen.
They physical Jews were key to God's redemption of man for we are fleshly beings, however the "fulfillment" of redemption requires the Jew who is circumsised in his heart.
---larry on 10/9/09


Look sandra I can't make you see what you don't want to see, if you want to hold on to a lie, then go right ahead, but for the last time whenever the bible is speaking of jews or the house of Israel, it is speaking to those who follow the commands of the lord. Most of the physical jews don't believe in the lord jesus christ, now if (Isa 11:11) was really speaking of them, God would come up empty handed because he would find no remnant of the physical jews. The chosen people of god are those who were chosen for salvation (2thes 2:13)"....because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:".
---metuschelah on 10/9/09


To Trav
Perhaps using another bible translation of Jerem 31:35-37 would help you understand what these verse means a little better. I took the liberty to look up the Good News Bible translation (GNB) for you, Be blessed.
--sandr4873 on 10/2/09
Blessing to you in your understanding/search as well. Help me to understand that you understand. Who do think Israel is in the above verse? Before you answer look up above these verses Jer31:31 and witness verses Heb 8:8.
You might note the it says "and"Judah. The other house is the 10 nations divorced.....but to be remarried. Is Why they are included in both verses.
---Trav on 10/5/09


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To Trav
Perhaps using another bible translation of Jerem 31:35-37 would help you understand what these verse means a little better. I took the liberty to look up the Good News Bible translation (GNB) for you, Be blessed.

Jer 31:35 The LORD provides the sun for light by day, the moon and the stars to shine at night. He stirs up the sea and makes it roar, his name is the LORD Almighty.
Jer 31:36 He promises that as long as the natural order lasts, so long will Israel be a nation.
Jer 31:37 If one day the sky could be measured and the foundations of the earth explored, only then would he reject the people of Israel because of all they have done. The LORD has spoken.
---sandr4873 on 10/2/09


Take for instance (Jer 8:7)"Yea, stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times, and the turtle and the crane and swallow observe the time of their coming, but my people know not the judgment of the LORD" it seems to me like we as god's people should know the time of our visation.
---metuschelah on 9/29/09

Very good but, faulty too. You take interpretation, one teaching too far. Weakens a witness.
The wording is "Times" not appointed hour,day. Time of coming for animals is....not a specific hour or day. None including you can specify exactly.
It is correct that we will/should be watching .....knowing it will be like a thief in the night....which night...we are in constant state of readiness.
---Trav on 10/2/09


Edom nation always had innate hatred for Jacob's people since their father Esau lost his birthright. Also Read John 8:37-44...Jesus put things in perspective of who their true father was.
---sandr4873 on 9/29/09

Good post sandr. While we may not be able to phsically tell ourselves....marks are plain....if we know marks.
Covenant marks....still in effect if Sun and Moon are still out.
Jer 31:36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37Thus saith the LORD, If heaven above can be measured, and foundations of earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all seed of Israel for all they have done, saith the LORD.
---Trav on 10/2/09


To Bill
//where Jesus says ones aren't Jews as they say, I consider this means even flesh and blood Hebrews, but not "inwardly" > see Romans 2:28-29.\\
I read Rom 2:28-29 and agree Paul seem to revert the jewishness to mean an inward relationsip with Jesus rather than just a blood line. Also I understood Rev 2:9 as a rebuke by John to the Edom Jews (or Idumeans) who have been prouncing around since 135 BC...calling themselves the real jews. Did you not know King Herod, an Idumea, was converted jew and exalted himself as the King of the Jews? Edom nation always had innate hatred for Jacob's people since their father Esau lost his birthright. Also Read John 8:37-44...Jesus put things in perspective of who their true father was.
---sandr4873 on 9/29/09


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To Metuschelah what you wrote on 9/21/09 not debating. Yes I know this is the dispensation period for whosoever believe in Jesus shall be saved, however did not Jesus say I have come for the house of Israel first, read Matt 15:24.
But I just wanted to address what I have been reading in Obadiah (only has 1 chpt) and Isaiah 11...Jesus is not done with the natural Israelites. When He returns judgement is coming on the current Edom nation who stands and sits in the house of Israel. Either the converts in Israel repent and make Jesus their Lord or be brought down. According to prophecy in the 2 books I mentioned above, Jesus is to restore Israel and Judah tribes to their land and unfortuntely what I read, it won't be pretty in the beginning.
---sandr4873 on 9/29/09


Metuschelah, I am impress that you believe that Tim Lehay's "leftbehind" books are false. I also believe that too. One thing that I wanted to ask you is, how did you come to the conclusion that the Second Coming is 2011 or twenty months from now? I would like to hear how you came out with that and from where in Scripture? Thanks
---MarkV. on 9/29/09


In response to trav-
(mark 13:32) "But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father". When one reads this verse one has to take a second look because what it looks like it is saying seems so clear but like many other scriptures in the bible it may say one thing but it is not, because in the light of other similar topics there seems to be a contradiction. Take for instance (Jer 8:7)"Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times, and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming, but my people know not the judgment of the LORD" it seems to me like we as god's people should know the time of our visation.
---metuschelah on 9/29/09


part 2
In response to trav
I will let the bible speak for itself
(1 thes 5:2)"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night". (1 thes 5:4)"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief". (rev 3:3) "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee". (mat 24:43)"But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up".
---metuschelah on 9/29/09


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Part1
First of all Trav I'm a she, not a he.

but the Father" is a stumbling block that causes most people not to be aware of when christ will come.
---Metuschelah on 9/25/09

Sorry had your name confused with another like it I guess. He is out of Alabama or somewhere and scripturally confused preacher.

But,....how is father a stumbling block to awareness?
---Trav on 9/29/09


To Alan...perhaps you didn't like the chose of words?? How about I rephrase it this way

"The bible gave specific description of the real Jews (from Jacobs lineage) external appearance"
---sandr4873 on 9/28/09


"The bible distintively described the Jews physical appearance"

??????
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/28/09


The bible distintively described the Jews physical appearance...just sharing the truth to others that the current jews in Israel is from Edom lineage Jacobs' brother. Edom (red and hairy)white as oppose to Jacob read below:
Lam 4:8 Their visage is blacker than a coal, they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones, it is withered, it is become like a stick.
Lam 5:10 Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.
Lam 5:11 They ravished the women in Zion, and the maids in the cities of Judah.
Also unfortunetly...Obadiah and Isaiah 11 goes into details of what will likely be when Jesus return...things will certainly be quite different than what we see now in Israel.
---sandr4873 on 9/27/09


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Part1
First of all Trav I'm a she, not a he.Secondly- I too see how most people think that no one is suppose to know the day that christ will return but if they were really children of god they would find out that the verse that they read which says (Mar 13:32) "But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" is a stumbling block that causes most people not to be aware of when christ will come.
---Metuschelah on 9/25/09


Metuschelah partly correct. No debating Romans 2:29, however the Jew is also decendant of Jacobs, the sons and 12 tribes.
Blood line alone is not adequate for salvation ---larry on 9/22/09

Scripturally find that he is rarely correct. Now he is a prophet giving a date. Christ said he didn't even know the date.

Judeans were 1/13th of Is ra EL.
So apparent I hate to keep repeating but, we are told who New Covenant is too.
Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31. Boths houses of Israel.
Correctly stated, it does not guarantee salvation. It does open door too a previously loved/Divorced wife. Now a widow and can be as a virgin.


---Trav on 9/25/09


Metuschelah is partly correct. There is no debating Romans 2:29, however the Jew is also the decendants of Jacobs, the sons and 12 tribes.
The blood line alone is not adequate for salvation which I believe is Metuschelah's point for which there is no debate, however the Jew is also he who is one of the twelve tribes that over the years has morphed into anyone who is Jewish by faith and finally to even the non-religious today who has a Jewish mother.

God bless.
---larry on 9/22/09


your still missing my point here, who cares whether japheth lineage was gentile or jewish it is no more a big deal then that asian lineages are numerous or that i'm caucasian or black. Don't read into things like that. If you want to know when christ is coming -it is in 2011,less then 20 months from now. And trust me the end time prophecy "left behind-by tim lahaye" that the so-called chritians of today are putting out are NOT true, they are teaching that false gospel which the bible warns us about in 2thes 2:11- "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" .
---metuschelah on 9/22/09


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To answer your question simply, read rom 2:29 which says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter, whose praise [is] not of men, but of God."
So when ever the bible speaks of the jews, it is speaking to believers whether chinese, indian, black, white, or hebrew, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith.
---metuschelah on 9/22/09


Pardon me but I'm not trying to be controversial but I was seeking God to understand Rev 2:10 & 3:10...because I'm into endtime prophecy. As I understand today's so-called jews are either Ashkenaz (mainly from eastern Europe/Russia region) or Sephardic (Spain (bibical name Tarshish)/Mediterrean area)...but Ashkenaz & Tarshish are from Japheth lineage which the bible says are of Gentiles and Gen 10:5 is the first place Gentiles were ever mentioned in King James version...
---sandr4873 on 9/21/09


Part 1
First- christians need to understand that the bible, all of it, is written in parables
Secondly- anyone can pick up a bible and read it, the question is do they really comprehend what is being presented to them
Thirdly- It is God the holy spirit that gives understanding as to what the bible speaks of
Fourthly- The bible is a book of parables which talks of earthly stories which have a heavenly(spritual) meaning.

By the way you pose your question I can clearly tell that you have No understanding of the bible, because of how ignorantly you think that when the bible speaks of jews that you really think it's talking about jews, it's not.
---metuschelah on 9/21/09


Part2
When the bible speaks of jews, it is not really speaking about jews, it is talking about his people, his chosen one's, THE BELIEVER whether jews or gentiles, greek or arab, black or white, ect... so when you said rev 2:9 or rev 3:9, it is not really talking about jews, it is really talking about those who says that they are BELIEVERS and are not really believers. But remember this beloved that (luke 8:10) says "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables, that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." Be careful in your understanding of the Bible, don't just look on the surface but compare scriptures with scriptures for the hidden meaning- 1cor 2:13
---metuschelah on 9/21/09


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Hi, Sandra . . . Ok, so if your info is correct, the Khazars certainly are not Israel descending from Isaac through Jacob who was then named *Israel*. But I'd "think" we have *some* number of people descended from King David, in Israel. So, these would be the "true" flesh and blood Jews there. But I understand the gathering of the Jews is to be *obedient*, and these have not been obeying Jesus. So, the return of these could be a *false* return not as meant by history related prophecy. Another thing > where Jesus says ones aren't Jews as they say, I consider this means even flesh and blood Hebrews, but not "inwardly" > see Romans 2:28-29.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/20/09


---more_excellent_way on 9/19/09
I want to thank you for your answer. I appreciate the insight. Your answer is something I wish I said.
---mima on 9/20/09


Just as it is entirely up to the Christian community to decide who is a Christian, it is entirely up to the Jewish community to decide who is a Jew. Christians wouldn't stand for Jews deciding who is a real Christian, and Jews shouldn't stand for Christians deciding who is a real Jew.
---mugwump on 9/19/09


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