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The Complain And Whine Blog

This is the I like to complain and whine blog. Back by popular demand :)

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Kathr4453 ---
If there was no controversy about "election" vs. "free will", you would not have to argue your point of view month after month on this blog. This argument has gone on for hundreds of years. Just because you feel strongly doesn't mean you have "won".

This theological argument will be carried on by both sides in various settings (both backing their views with scripture) until we no longer "see through a glass darkly" but "know even as we are known".

Is it really worth causing further division within the body of Christ, now?
---Donna66 on 10/6/09


Sense this is a whine and complain blog, let me complain that some terms are not defined. Perhaps we could spend some time clarifying terms.

What do people mean when they say people have a "free will?" Obviously, there are many things that people are not free to do, such as run 25 miles an hour for an hour, or swim under water for an hour without oxygen.

When the term "chosen" is used, do people mean man does not have a choice when talking about coming to God?

What other terms need defined?
---Rod4Him on 10/6/09


Kathr4453-- There's more to it than TULIP.
-- from a paper entitled Calvinism and Free will:
"Compatibilistic free will--
This refers to the idea that mans choices are ultimately within the bounds of Gods sovereign control, yet they are free in the sense that God does not coerce man to choose against his will,....Generally speaking, then, Calvinists affirm that man has compatibilistic free will, but deny that man has absolute free will." Edward A. Morris Feb.2005

Not all Calvinists are "SIX point" Calvinists..some are 5 or even 4 point Calvinists.
Virtually NO modern Calvinst feels compelled to perform violence against perceived enemies. I'm not a Calvinist but am relying on literature about Calvinism.
---Donna66 on 10/6/09


Your will, will not match God's The choice is God's and YA'LL hate it coz you cannot have any part in salvation. l I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/5/09


Here Donna66, see how they assault those who preach the Gospel....it's their way or the highway. They say, because you don't believe you have no free will...God's will choses here calling God a Liar when He clearly said WHOSOEVER will.

And see how they act...and you think God's POWER in in that display of a tantrum.

You see how THEY fight against GOD and HIS WORD!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/6/09


yet they are free in the sense that God does not coerce man to choose against his will.

You must know that this controversy will never be resolved . Is it just that you want to fight with somebody?
---Donna66 on 10/5/09

Donna66, you may want to re-familiarize yourself with the 6 point TULIP. The 6th point in fact states irresistable Grace that does infact state men are coerced against their will, because in their doctrine man has no free will.

Donna66, This controversy HAS been resolved. It's the CAlvinists who fail to understand that fact. THEY continue to fight with everyone here. WE continue to defend the Gospel, not an ISM.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/09




I don't understand. You imply that MarkV's illness is due to sin. But when he gives antibiotics credit for curing his infection, you jump on him for sounding as if man has choices in life which you think is "peculiar for a Calvinist".Donna66


Donna66,I NEVER said Markv illness was due to sinHe twisted my words. MarkV has a habit of doing this with several peoples words.

I said when we fight in our flesh, and not by our Spirits,we can make ourselves sick.

You see, when the Power of God is in our words, that POWER is to preach the Gospel of Good News. There is NO POWER bragging one is God's elect.


The Preaching of the Gospel IS the Power of God unto SALVATION!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/6/09


first off lets ALL be honest. We all are guilty,we all whine and complain,we learned as children,and for many it never stopped.Take a lesson from the israelites,God parted a sea,and they still whined and compmained,still they thought the land was filled with Giants and couldn,t be conquered,even though God was on their side,are we less guilty than them?NOPE.Bottom line is this,jesus came and died for your salvation,so you could be in heaven with him,so,what have you too complain about,REALLY.
---tom2 on 10/6/09


Why do you assume that Calvinists believe that man has NO freewill? Is that what makes you hate them?

I don't understand. You imply that MarkV's illness is due to sin. But when he gives antibiotics credit for curing his infection, you jump on him for sounding as if man has choices in life which you think is "peculiar for a Calvinist".

From what I can tell, Calvinists do not usually view men as mindless puppets.
More commonly, they see that mans choices are ultimately within the bounds of Gods sovereign control, yet they are free in the sense that God does not coerce man to choose against his will.

You must know that this controversy will never be resolved . Is it just that you want to fight with somebody?
---Donna66 on 10/5/09


Lee, your scripture here on Romans is mis-applied.

God had Mercy on Israel through BLOOD being appled to the door-post, where with Israel escaped the wrath...the death of the first born. There was no Mercy on Israel apart from the BLOOD. We too find Mercy was given Rahab's family, by putting a Scarlet thread in the window representing BLOOD, by their family escaped the Wrath brought upon Jerico.

Lee, there is no Mercy apart from the BLOOD. God is not overlooking the Cross, just by waving a magic wand granting Mercy to whomever He wants, just because He feels like it.

The BLOOD of the Everlasting Covenant, between Father Son and Holy Spirit is How God's Sovereignty from before the foundation of the world was in effect.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/09


Donna66, We are talking about HOW Christians fight the good fight...not one another!

The Crusades, Islam Jehad, Calvin himself all believed and believe today they are to physically fight fleah and blood by stamping out who they believe are the enemies any way they can.

Donna66.....Jesus NEVER taught such things.

We overcome satan and his attacks on us through the power of God's word applied to US as we overcome...We overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our Testimony, having victory through our faith...not our fists or our insulting attacks especially on the body of Christ, and those who HOLD to the WORD of God unadulterated, unleaven.

Those who sprinkle any Leaven will never be overcomers!
---kathr4453 on 10/5/09




Kathr4453-->>like John Calvin who murdered as his weapon of choice. You see, that's where you Calvinists have it all wrong....you follow his ways...not God's ways.<< ---kathr4453 on 10/5/09

Don't you think this is taking it a bit far?...as if Calvinists were muderers?..accusing them of not following God's ways?

Truth is, the majority of Presbyterians, Baptists, Congregationalists, Reformed Church, Evangelical Reformed members and
a large number of Methodists don't even know you are talking about THEM. They don't know or care about Calvin.

Most care more about seeking and serving God than theological hair splitting..I don't know the source of your hostility, but its expression doesn't exactly encourage Christian love.
---Donna66 on 10/5/09


Katr - the thing about free will and God's sovereignty has been debated for centuries and will continue ad infinitum.

What we truly dislike is that God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants with His creation regardless of our desires.

Romans 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?

The only thing you can do is to be as malleable as possible.
---lee on 10/5/09


The doctor gave me antibiotics that killed the sin in me, and now my liver and kidneys are sinless. Jesus was not needed. MarkV***

MarkV, that is the most Peculiar comment ever coming from a Calvinist who says man has no free will? Well, on this one I would say that Jesus in fact created those anitbiotics...not man's free will????


But then again, maybe many on line including me PRAYED for you...did you ever factor that in?

Jesus wasn't needed? Oh my, in my life Jesus is needed in EVERYTHING, since I am His Body, and He lives in me!


The more you TRY to make me look bad...the more YOU are the one looking bad! Maybe you should sit up and take notice!
---kathr4453 on 10/5/09


in reality the fight we fight is ourselves,or for ourselves,and only with God can we win.
---tom2 on 10/5/09


You know Bobby1, As we fight against powers and Principalities WE OVERCOME realizing in reality we are seated with Christ in Heavenly Places in Christ.

Through these exercises we learn the battle belongs to the Lord, always has.

When the Children went into the promise land WHO went before them?and HOW was Jerico conquered? Looks to me by Faith and Obedience in God's voice.

Your idea of beating up people and calling that fighting is NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE. Your interpretation of fighting is demonstrated by CULTS...like John Calvin who murdered as his weapon of choice. You see, that's where you Calvinists have it all wrong....you follow his ways...not God's ways.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/09


tom2 our fight is against principalities and powers who work within those who are against God and His children who are walking according to the course of this world according to the prince and power of the air.

You can be assured there are those among us with a Crusade driven mandate, as even the extreme Islam hold dear to their faith.

Be warned Brothers and Sisters, these are the voices of anti-Christ.
---Larry on 10/5/09


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tom2 our fight is against principalities and powers who work within those who are against God and His children who are walking according to the course of this world according to the prince and power of the air. beware as the Bible always reminds us. put on the full armor of God. and do not be afraid because the Lord is with us.
---Bobby1 on 10/4/09


bobby1,our fight is not with,or against our fellow man.We all have free will,and will ultimately answer to God for our choice and those who reject jesus will have a short interview,actually none.
---tom2 on 10/4/09


Jerry, I could not answer you on "Can a prayer save you" it was full so here is my answer.
First, thank you so much for your kind words to me, and your answer on my health. I will make sure that whenever I answer you again, it will be with the greatest respects, though some times you really make me laugh with some of the questions.
Second, Kathr said it was sin that cause me to get sick of my kidney and liver. The doctor gave me antibiotics that killed the sin in me, and now my liver and kidneys are sinless. Jesus was not needed.
I read what Bobby 1 said about defining the terms and I didn't know what in the world he was talking about. Now I know because with one remark not define, you can created a new theology.
---MarkV. on 10/4/09


Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Ask him! He will say that Jesus is the Lord!
The Holy Ghost works in him!

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The greatest of these is charity!
---TheSeg on 10/3/09


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The Seg, I want to commend you for your comment here. Not just because it was said to me, but these comments are being said to many here and it is coming from one camp

God has given us (His Body) Gifts differing one from another. You may say something and I may say something not rehearsed and taught out of text books, but by HIS POWER in us according to our level of growth. Even a baby Christian who babbles baby talk WE can understand because the Holy Spitit is right in teh words and will speak to us and reveal to us what HIS intentions are.

It only shows Bobby1 does not have a spiritual Gift to begin with and out of that lack, has a need to hide behind his Intellectual unsanctified flesh!
---kathr4453 on 10/3/09


As a mere human (I will make no attempt) to fully understand God,or his word.
Scripture tells me I see as a mist,aka fog

Darkly!
But then face to face, -- then shall I know even as also I am known.

But the hour cometh, and now is!
When the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth.
For the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest?
Behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, for they are white already to harvest.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.
May the blessing of The lord be upon you!
---TheSeg on 10/3/09


tom2, you are a good man with a good heart but loving the enemy is almost impossible. did jesus love the pharisees when he called them vipers? from adam and eve we were told that there would be two families, and they would be against each other. those born of the spirit and those who are children of hagar. so the battle is on. find out who your enemy is and put your armor on.
we are not told to complain or whin, but to fight the good battle.
---Bobby1 on 10/3/09


as a mere human I will make no attempt to fully understand God,or his word.scripture tells me I see as a mist,aka fog,but one day I will see and know.Until then the main object of my life is to seek God,give my full obidience to God,to love God first,then the people,aka love thy neighbor as yourself.Not much shown on this site though,only pride.
---tom2 on 10/3/09


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pout pout, murmur murmur, grumble grumble, moan moan and groan groan...It's bory, it's slow, it's hot, it's cold...it's too long, I'm tired, I hurt, and I wanna go home.
---Eloy on 10/3/09


tom2, what I wrote is a very good description of how kathr works the bible verses without defining the terms of what she says. snake might have been the wrong word to use but maybe serpent would have been better. Some people work that way in their attempt to cover the truth with untruth. the serpent said, you will not surely die, hiding the real truth, that she would. it was a good example. working like and been one are two different things. does not mean she is not saved or does it?
---Bobby1 on 10/2/09


the truth is only something that the obidient,HUMBLE spirit can discern.We gain knowledge of God by revelation,thru the holy spirit,to our spirit,we discern one anothers point of view.
---tom2 on 10/2/09


(You work like the snake in the garden of eden when he spoke to Eve)

As I see, any of you, who can say things like this to another.
Where is the love of God in your words?

The figure 8 on a digital clock has seven pieces.
Not everyone can see all seven at the same time.
She may not have all seven, but, I can see you are missing the center one!
---TheSeg on 10/2/09


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Bobby1 Part 2...please post

bobby1, this is my last words to you. We see Alan has also stated the Sovereignty of God as he believes, so, go bite his head off.

MarkV said it means God PICKED people out to go to hell. I did not hear you say that in your definition.

The word Sovereignty is not in scripture. Therefore you have as much right to DEFINE sovereign as Alan, or I or duane or Miche.

But to conclude like MarkV YOU are correct and everyone else is wrong is arrogant!

But that shows already in your posts here!

Arrogance carries a club and matches to burn at the stake...it's the spirit of Calvin in you, not Christ in you!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/09


Donna66:

I agree 100%. Honest debate is good (hopefully everyone learns something new). Unfortunately, it seems like all too many people (both on here and in real life) are much more interested in the "I'm right and Godly, and everyone who disagrees is wrong and is a heretic" mind-set. The modern resurgence of evangelical Christianity in the past two centuries was supposed to correct the grievous errors committed in the name of Christianity during the dark ages, and the inquisition, etc. Sadly, this appears not to be the case (because people will always be imperfect).
---StrongAxe on 10/2/09


Kathr again here you do the same thing as on another blog. You work like the snake in the garden of eden when he spoke to Eve he didn't define the terms to Eve, "you will not surely die"

---Bobby1 on 10/2/09

Bobby1 or should I say MarkV???


Satan didn't have to DEFINE anything to Eve...God said If you eat of this tree you will surely DIE!!!
Satan did not have to define disobedience! They knew what they were told by GOD Himself.

How Ignorant!!

Scripture doesn't NEED defining...it needs to be believed without your calvinistic defining and manipulation! That is what is evil.

The Holy Spirit reveals TRUTH, Not your definition of Truth!



God is not impressed Bobby1!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/09


Kathr again here you do the same thing as on another blog. You work like the snake in the garden of eden when he spoke to Eve he didn't define the terms to Eve, "you will not surely die"

Here the words 'God's Soverignty' consist of who He is, His nature, His attributes, His holiness. Without that been define, there is no gospel. For who is Christ but God. If He is not God then you have what mormons teach. Define the terms, stop decieving.
---Bobby1 on 10/2/09


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I've been out of town a few days. I've come back to find out that the same controversy I complained about going on and on... has now balooned over to this blog, just as it has taken over several other unrelated blogs.
I don't agree with Helen that we shouldn't "argue"...an honest DEBATE serves to sharpen the thinking of believers as "iron sharpeneth iron". But personal insults have no place in a debate OR in the Christian family.

This particular debate has gone on for centuries. Nobody will "win". Nobody will get the "last word". And I'm beginning to think that "winning" is what it's all about, after all, not discovering the truth.
---Donna66 on 10/1/09


You do realize that arguing amongst believers, complaining, whining, etc is pleasing to the enemy? This is not of the Lord, nor does it add to the kingdom. Just a thought....
---helen on 10/1/09


M O E ... The false witness is not just a different understanding. It is blatant lies about what someone else has said.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/1/09


MarkV....I've always wanted to know this. If God just chooses whom he wants, then why did Jesus die on the cross?
---KarenD on 10/1/09


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don't like to stop defending God on this subject, MarkV***


MarkV, there is nowhere in scripture God askes any of us to defend His Sovereignty. We are asked to DEFEND THE GOSPEL.
You made a very remarkable statement that God doesn't need you to defend anything...yet you feel the need to defend...That is a contradiction.

Yet we are called to DEFEND the preaching of the CROSS as the ONLY way to salvation, and by God's Sovereign WORD of Promise will save to the upmost those who come to Him through Christ.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/09


More excellent way, brother, I bow to your suggestions and will not defend the Sovereign right of God to choose whom His pleases to choose and allow others to speak on His behalf. I am sure they have another way of answering then me. Maybe polite enough that they will not be stone. I will seat back and take it, even though I don't like to stop defending God on this subject, but maybe God is using you to get my attention, and for now will answer other questions. I leave you peace brother, thanks.
---MarkV. on 10/1/09


MarkV ... We agree on one thing ... that we disagree about what Sovereignty means.

One thing that we do not agree on is honesty in argument.

I beleive that it is wrong to tell lies about what someone else has said.

You clearly beleive that it is perfectly acceptable to tell lies ... because you have continuously told lies about what I (and others) have said.

I was beginning to think I must be wrong about Genesis 20.16 ... so I have just checked. God tells us we should not bear false witness. Do you think you should ignore that Truth?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/1/09


As I see it.
We all deny the Sovereignty of God!

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. The Seg***



Yes The Seg, God said that to Moses when Pharoah refused to let Israel go!

God never said that to Joseph when that Pharoah BLESSED the God if Abraham Isaac & Jacob, therefore bringing a blessing on them, and through Joseph's God Egypt then was blessed, and through that blessed Israel.

I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you was CERTAINLY God's sovereign RIGHT as it is NOW! God made a PROMISE to Abraham and KEPT it, and Will continue to KEEP it! Israel will again be blessed! Romans 11.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/09


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As I see it.
We all deny the Sovereignty of God!

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.The Seg.***8

The Seg, yes we see here MOSES and Pharoah...not Joseph and Pharoah as an example.

Unfortuantely the "Deeper Meaning Blog" WHINE! WHINE!, was locked after I brought up scripture concerning Joseph.

You see, the Gentiles in Egypt were BLESSED through Joseph, because they believed in the God of Joseph, unlike Pharoah of Moses time who Cursed Israel. Jospeh is a TYPE of Christ as well, forsaken by His brethren, yet FORGIVEN and Blessed...through God Blessing Egypt...Gentiles.

This is Romans 11.



---kathr4453 on 10/1/09


Alan, you do have a right to say that about me just as I have said about you, the only difference is that I am right and you are wrong. I am right because I have God's Word that says so, and that is the only Truth that really counts.
You said, "He has POWER, if He so wishes, to choose whom He wills. You say, He has the power if He so wishes, but He does wish it. So He does it.
You also say,
"He also has POWER to allow FreeWill." He does have it, but if He did, He would stop been Sovereign, and if not Sovereign, not God, and God cannot stop been God. His nature, Character, and attributes never change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Thats why there is no Scripture that indicates that.
---MarkV. on 10/1/09


My complaint is about the BAD HABITS that are so commonplace among the brethren that claim to be IN Christ. This common attitude that it is okay to be judgemental and accusatory (aggressive) towards each other as long as we justify it with "Christian lingo"/jargon is nothing more than disguised hostility towards each other AND a lack of genuine humility.

"bear false witness" (because of a different understanding?).

"Please"...
...this pretense of kindness states...

"TRY to REgain your [lost?] integrity".

These hypocritical suggestive accusations towards each other ARE NOT the way of God, they are pride's pastime and OUR SHAME.

I've seen too much of this all my life.
---more_excellent_way on 10/1/09


MarkV ... Yet again you bear false witness by saying "I'm sorry that you also oppose the Sovereign right for God to choose whom He wills"

You know well that I do not oppose God's Sovereignty.

Please try to regain your integrity by debating with honesty and not with misrepresentation and fabrication

In fact God does not have any Sovereign rights. Rights are granted, and they come with conditions laid down by the donor. No-one can grant rights to God, not even you.

God does not need rights, since He has full Sovereign POWER to do ANYTHING He wishes.

He has POWER, if He so wishes, to choose whom He wills.

He also has POWER to allow FreeWill.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/30/09


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As I see it.
We all deny the Sovereignty of God!

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Do you give him this, no!
I have heard it said, by all!
You must ----- before!

Is this not denying the Sovereignty of God?
Go ahead and say, no!
Why because, Its in the bible, and we know the bible!
Can a man laugh and cry at the same time? I do!
God Bless
---TheSeg on 9/30/09


Yahushua said a house divided will not stand! And yet I look at these blogs and see a house divided, I see those who say they are born again and yet the so called born again act like those of the world. I cant tell the difference between most on these blogs and those of the world. I see so called believers who openly violate YHVH's commandments and yet say they are saved. Yahushua described the christian church in detail in matt 7:21-23, christians are the only group on earth who fits this, yet all of you think your saved. Wake up, come down off your high horses and actually follow Yahushua!!!
---wayne on 9/30/09


Heres another complaint.....why is it most of you cannot answer the most simple of questions with honesty? You vomit up responses the churches have taught you, instead of really getting down to the facts of what scripture says. So lets see if any of you can answer this question with honesty. Why does Paul tell his vision differently each time he tells it? Every person has avoided this question, Why? This goes to show alot about christians, I asked this and said what would you tell those who wanted to become christian but needed this and other questions answered, the people who did respond didnt care about it and didnt answer the question, nor did they care about the persons who wanted to be christian, why?
---wayne on 9/30/09


MarkV ... You, MarkV deny the Sovereignty of God

Think about that Mark.

I have as much right to say that about you as you have to say it about me.

The fact of course is that neither of us deny the Sovereignty of God ... it is just that our perceptions of it differ

So please learn to discuss honestly without false witness.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/30/09


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Kathr, join the group. I never said you were of your father the devil. Sorry, but you must think you are, cause I didn't. In fact I thought you were a wonderful person when you first begin answering on the security of believers, until you went haywire when I spoke for God choosing individuals. Talking about Irael, O.T. N. T. all together to confuse the Word. Maybe I am crazy too for answering you. You can join Alan any day you want, and I will not be surprise if more of you who speak for man instead of God come forward and complain too. I attack your theology which is man centered, and I don't expect less from those who oppose the Sovereignty of God. You see, God's Word tells us that we who speak for Him will be persecuted. Keep complaining.
---MarkV. on 9/30/09


MarkV, YOUR interpretation of the Sovereignty of God is what is the issue. NOT the Sovereignty of God.

Now we do see in Nineveh Jonah was told to tell them they would be destroyed in 40 days PERIOD. Jonah didn't preach repent! HOWEVER, when they believed Jonah, they REPENTED in hopes God would change his mind!

Guess what, GOD did change his mind and had MERCY on whom HE will have mercy....and it was THEIR free will, not God having some kind of Puppet Show with Himself entertaining Himself with the outcome.

Let's be clear here, GOD's Sovereign WILL is that ALL repent, therefore ANYONE who does, without first being Born Again, GOD WILL HAVE MERCY!!!! This is the SOVEREIGN WILL OF GOD!!!
---kathr4453 on 9/30/09


Alan, I'm sorry I don't live up to your expectations. I'm sorry that you also oppose the Sovereign right for God to choose whom He wills. I'm sorry that you don't come right out and give Scripture to support your views. I am sorry you are a complainer. These is the complain or whining blog.
I thought you were willing to discuss Scripture with Scripture. But that was not the case from the beginning. You just didn't like what I said, even when I put down proof from Scripture. So Scripture was not important after all to you. Kathr has join you complaining and as I said before, I am sure others are just waiting to join the band wagon. Hit me with everything you got. Scripture says that every time we suffer for the Truth, it's one more reward.
---MarkV. on 9/30/09


Mark ... I have never seen any evidence that anyone here gets anywhere near hating you.

*******

annoying sometimes BUT HATE?? hate you because their beliefs are different? you seem a bit wrapped up in yourself ...although when you get hung up on your own crusade like here:

"Those who reject the reveal word of God who oppose me .....sacrifice the Word of God by twisting the real Truth, into a lie, just to try to hurt me"

Eloy assigns similar attributes to himself too ....reality check would be "oppose Gods Word" YOU are NOT Gods Word ...many assign themselves to lofty positions in name of Christ maybe that is where your confusion lies
---Rhonda on 9/29/09


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Iam just as guilty as anyone,but let me say that arguing among ourselves sends the wrong message.I well endeavor to talk christ crucified,and walking in the spirit as God refines all to do his work.
---tom2 on 9/29/09


MarkV:

I have been through situations similar to yours. The difference is people have told me "in person", instead of "on-line".

Being told that I "complain a lot" wasn't what I wanted to hear. It took some soul searching before I was able to SEE what these folks were telling me. They were all "sick and tired of listening to my complaining". Well, if they were, then so was God. :<(

I now realize that "complaining" is one of my weaknesses. Something that I need to guard against. In my case, just stopping and listening to what others were saying helped me GROW.

Then the Moderator posted this blog. Another opportunity for me to complain some more? I passed.
---Sag on 9/29/09


"Those who reject the reveal word of God who oppose me, turn to sin by attacking me as a person, with remarks, bad comments, sarcasims, and sacrifice the Word of God by twisting the real Truth, into a lie, just to try to hurt me.MarkV"

Mark, no-one tries to hurt you. In fact, we try to save you from yourself. At least that is why I warn you that false witness is a sin.

"Some come to support my views of the Word by giving their own explanations and later they too, become objects of their hate"

Mark ... I have never seen any evidence that anyone here gets anywhere near hating you.
---Alan8566_of_uk on 9/29/09


Alan, if you believe and you do, that man has free will to choose Christ when he wants to, then you are against the Sovereignty of God. For God's Sovereignty means that God, chooses whom He will have mercy on. You say He doesn't because man has a free will and can do what he wants with his free will.
So yes, you are oppose to the Sovereign right of God choosing whom He so desires according to His will. Nothing could be more clear.
So my answer to you was correct. I didn't accuse you but it shows why I said what I said to you. I put Scripture down for you. It was not to make you feel bad, or to make you feel good, it was to teach you the Truth and you didn't like it. I am sorry you didn't.
---MarkV. on 9/29/09


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Donna66:

Yes, you have hit it right on the head. There is way too much "choking on gnats and swallowing camels" here.
---StrongAxe on 9/29/09


Alan, this is my complaint with MarkV as well. The numerous times he has taken my words with scripture, and TWISTS through his own twisted thinking making remarks I did not say. But he does this intentionally, all the while telling me "YOU ARE of your father the devil", and not saved etc...after he's the one twisting and lying.

When I comment on someone words, I copy and paste THEIR words, not my regurgitated twisted understanding of them, and then commenting on the Twist!

It's SICK! Then he wants to play the victim.

Alan, They are called Culture Warriors! They KNOW exactly what they are doing.

Look up Culture Warriors, and see if it's not true!
---kathr4453 on 9/29/09


MarkV ... You are wrong. I DO NOT get angry when you express your beliefs, although you get angry when I express my different perception of the same Truth.

What does anger me is when you tell lies about what I or others have said.

On numerous occasions you have stated for all to read, that I have denied that God is Sovereign.

I have never done that, and you know it.

There are many other things which you have falsely claimed that I have said ... all untrue.

Hitler burnt the Reischtag and blamed the Communists. Marxism says lying is OK as long as it furthers the Cause. I am surprised you adopt the same tactics.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/29/09


the flesh gets in the way.pride being one of the biggest perpatrators.We all want to be right we even argue with God.I know a man whos son was killed years ago,nearly 38 now,and he still is mad at God about his sons death,and wont attend services,or even walk into a church,still blames God for his sons death.By the way it was an accident.
---tom2 on 9/29/09


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Those who reject the reveal word of God who oppose me, turn to sin by attacking me as a person, with remarks, bad comments, sarcasims, and sacrifice the Word of God by twisting the real Truth, into a lie, just to try to hurt me.MarkV****


MarkV, please RE-READ your comment here. Are YOU God?

So stop judging others based on you thinking YOU are God and we are sinning against You.


GET over yourself....and when you do, humble yourself before God and apologize for SELF exaltation!

Phil 2***Keep this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus...who made himself of no reputation, and became obedient uto death....THEN MrkV, GOD will exalt you...so you won't have to do it yourself, and whine about it!
---kathr4453 on 9/29/09


Donna, yes, it is a waste of time and wasted time is a sin. Thanks for your quotes and for reminding us of that wasted time. I don't take offense when someone is attacking me as a person, what I have come to understand is that so long as I stay with the Word of God, no matter what anyone calls me, it's for the glory of God. Those who reject the reveal word of God who oppose me, turn to sin by attacking me as a person, with remarks, bad comments, sarcasims, and sacrifice the Word of God by twisting the real Truth, into a lie, just to try to hurt me. Pride becomes more important then Truth. Some come to support my views of the Word by giving their own explanations and later they too, become objects of their hate. We can change no one.
---MarkV. on 9/29/09


My complaint is that some of these blogs go on and on arguing about, excuse me for saying so, minutiae. There is a difference of opinion about whether it is the Spirit or the Word that comes first in Faith
... sort of like which came first the chicken or the egg.
If you are already a Christian, it is a moot point. If you are not a Christian, the discussion won't even make sense.

This will never be settled. But everybody wants the LAST Word, so it never ends. It not only never ends, but often ends up in an exchange of personal insults. How sad and what a waste of time.
---Donna66 on 9/28/09


Alan, I agree totally that you and I have a different view on what Election or God' Sovereignty means. I knew that from the first time I heard your reply. I tried very hard to explain to you what they both mean, by giving you Scripture and gave you reasons why they could not mean anything different with Scripture. When giving you the reasons, or when anyone gives you reasons, you automaticlly take it as some attacking your person, and your reputation becomes the object of your faith. So you get angry as always not because they are wrong in Scripture but because you feel they have made you look bad. I am here to tell you, I am not here to make you look bad. I am here to explain the Truth as God has presented it to me.
---MarkV. on 9/28/09


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Mark ... I agree that you give me what you believe to be the Truth with regard to Election and God's Sovereignty. I find that I have a different perception of that same Truth.

That is OK.

There are times when (say) RCs state what they regard as the Truth, and I may challenge them because I think they are wrong. But I do not make false statements about what they say.

But this is what you do to me. You say that I have said something, when in fact I have said the opposite. You continually misquote me (and others) That is what I mean by false witness. That is Untruth.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/28/09


Alan, I didn't have you in mind when I posted my answer to More Excellent way. In fact I believe you worship God with your heart. You do complain alot, but I made sure I didn't mention anyone in perticular, you of all people complained about my post because somehow you feel it is you who does all the complaining. No Alan, it was not you. But, you think you are, you must have felt guilty somehow and had to come online and complain again. But what you call lies that I give you, is the Word of God. You don't want to believe it was God who took you out of path to hell and gave you a new life. You want to claim some credit for your redemption. The Truth does hurt Alan.
---MarkV. on 9/28/09


Markv...Thank you for recognizing that truth (objective truth) is often seen as repulsive and 'uncomfortable' in society. Objective truth is disliked because it is non-negotiable.

God included many things in scripture to help us. He had Pilate say "What is truth?" (John 18:38) so that we would ponder the world's preference for 'subjective' truth instead of objective truth...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
"because they refused to love the truth AND SO BE SAVED".

The gospel is a love letter to humanity. The Lord always knew what we would need to grow properly.
---more_excellent_way on 9/27/09


Some people whine & complain like others use profanity to verbally express themselves. Yet, there is a "more excellent way" according to Scripture, i.e., Pv. 12:26 & 1 Cor. 12:31 & 13:1-2.
---Leon on 9/27/09


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I was surprised to see that a blog with this name had so few posts, but then realized that it was started on Saturday and it's only Sunday. Even so, it already has 7 posts, evne though blog responses aren't posted on weekends! :)
---StrongAxe on 9/27/09


its human nature.when the israelites left egypt,they complained constantly,and whined about the heat,no food,God answered by raining mana from heaven,well they found something about that to whine and complain about.The worse part about doing it is it can and does separate us from God,both in thoughts mand deeds.humble thankfulness needs to be a daily attitude and a way of life.
---tom2 on 9/27/09


MarkV ... You make a great play here about the Truth, and accuse others of whining.

But it is you who whines, not others.

You whine when your false witness is exposed.

If you stop the lies about what others have said and beleive, you will not then have the need to whine when other chide you.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/27/09


More excellent way,
that was a great answer, brother. I find that you have a lot of godly insight in your answers.
I see a lot of whinning from only a very few. They are more worried about their reputation then the Truth. This are adults, who complain like little children. Some of these people mad at you, hear others speak to you wrong, yet will not come forward to defend the Truth your teaching, they join the others and form a pack, doesn't that remind you of anything? It is so sad, but the Truth is that many worship Christ with their lips and not with their hearts.
What many do not realize is that the Truth always hurts. I have been around a group of unbelievers and when I mention a Sovereign God or Jesus, most leave right away.
---MarkV. on 9/27/09


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This is petty, but with my current headache, I must whine that my Phillies game is on at the same time as the Penn State football game. I have to channel surf to keep up with them both.
---Trish9863 on 9/26/09


Some things cannot be said properly (the point will not truly be understood/realized) without SARCASTIC WIT.

It's not just that we've developed the habit to patronize and flatter The Lord with "praise" (how condescending!!), but we have also learned to COMPLAIN about everything we encounter in life because of OUR failure to do things right (and then we carry this attitude with us all through life...perpetual sadness...POETIC JUSTICE).

Realistically, some adversity is not our fault at all, but our complaint is that we have to experience adversity ALSO (instead of ONLY OTHER PEOPLE).

We need to learn SUFFRAGE and ENDURE our sufferings...

Matthew 24:13
"he who endures to the end will BE SAVED".
---more_excellent_way on 9/26/09


I will just list some things that I often find myself "complaining" about:

** MEN aren't being the leaders God wants them to be.

** Church leaders seem to be "afraid" to deal with the root of all problems: SIN.

** Ministries spend too much time BEGGING for more money.

** There is so much divorce & remarriage today. Even among CHRISTIANS.

** Too much emphasis is placed on NUMBERS: church attendance, collection totals, building sizes, etc.

May God forgive me for this babyish "complaining". I often find that I need to examine myself before I starting whining. Matthew 7:5 :<(
---Sag on 9/26/09


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