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How Long To Create World

How long did God take to create the world? The Bible says six days, but some Christians say many more. Why?

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 ---jerry6593 on 10/5/09
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Atheist evolution isn't technically a theory, scientifically speaking, but an hypothesis, a belief.

I do keep up but before replying I phoned a scientist friend who writes extensively on these issues, to confirm my thinking.

Evolutionists do believe man and primates evolved from an immediate common ancestor. None the less the evolutionist George Gaylord Simpson said if we saw this missing-link we would call it an ape! I have never seen this common-ancestor idea applied to birds evolution. Everything I have read shows evolutionists believe birds evolved either from reptiles or dinosaurs. They place repliles and dinosaurs before birds so they could not have an immediate common ancestor. Do you have any references?
---Warwick on 10/9/09


Atheist your 'You need to keep up.' comment says it all. Evolution is a belief which is often taught dogmaticlly as fact. However if we were to select evolutionary textbooks, one per decade, for the last 100 years, we would see the story has changed so much as to be almost unrecognizeable. But in each of those decades it was believed to be, and taught dogmatically, as fact.

Meanwhile God's word has not had to change at all as He got it right first time. Scripture says our salvation is a gift of God, every dedcade since it was penned. The same forever and forever. This forgiveness, and salvation is freely available to you.
---Warwick on 10/9/09


Lee, you promote yourself as being above us in every way. Arrogance.

You write ' the RECORD DOES NOT TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT THE DURATION OF THE CREATION DAYS.' Capitals in case we dimwits, peons to a man are too dimwitted to comprehend.

You write in direct opposition to God's word. You are therfore an opponent of God, needing repentance, as Adetunji says.

I have met many with similar antiBiblical views of Genesis as yours but the vast majority (committed to the Truth of God's word.) came to understood from Scripture, that the 6-days of creation are the same length-6 ordinary earth-rotation 24hr days. The same length days as those God commanded the Israelites to work and rest upon.
---Warwick on 10/9/09


Lee you are annoyed because I say you hold nonBiblical views. But you do, claiming man was around millennia before Adam. You only stated that once and I am sure you regret the slip!

You are unaccustomed to being contradicted and embarassed in public, and your pride is hurt. Hence the constant insults! If not a pride issue why would you fight so dirty and doggedly, to defend a view you cannot support by Scripture, grammar or logic?

Scripture is clear, calling the first 3 days, days just the same at the following 5-days, same as in Numbers 7:12-79, Exodus 20:8-11, and elsewhere.

I feel called to defend the gospel, to pray, to serve etc. Is this 'special annointing', or what all Chrisians are called to do?
---Warwick on 10/9/09


Larry, what you promote is called 'The Gap Theory' which proposes the first world was destroyed and then recreated-not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.

Jesus and the apostles quoted from/alluded to the first 11 chapters of Genesis 107 times with not even a hint of this gap, destruction, reconstruction. Jesus quoted from Genesis ch. 1 and 2 without a mention of this. It is not Scriptural.

Consider the words 'without form and void' KJV or 'formless and empty' as per other translations. Scripture and all litertature is about context. Scripture interprets Scripture. And in context the world was without its final shape at this point, and empty of any life.

Void only means empty, not voided or destroyed etc.
---Warwick on 10/9/09




Adetunji - It is all too easy to condemn others who truly follow Jesus but have more learned viewpoints than others.

My stand is neither that of an evolutionist nor of the Young Earth Creation advocates. It is only that the RECORD DOES NOT TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT THE DURATION OF THE CREATION DAYS.

If you think I am wrong, then please provide at least one verse of Scripture anywhere in the Bible that specifies the duration of the Creation periods.

If you cannot, then you are just another one of those afraid to question anything you are taught much like the flat earth advocates or those that truly believed the earth not the sun was the center of our universe.
---lee on 10/9/09


Adetunji, do not worry about me. I have met many 'Lees' and have communicated with some, over lengthy periods. Most have come to accept Biblical truth.

You must notice, on some subjects Lee considers Scripture the authority but on Genesis creation man is his authority. His views undermine the gospel, as I have shown.

He has been taught, and accepted, long-age views (like many) therefore reinterprets Genesis creation through this nonBiblical belief.

I am concerned about those he may lead away from Biblical faith.

His constant insults are evidence he in embarassed to have his compromise exposed, but has no good argument.

I do not need to prove anything, simply to show what Scripture says.
---Warwick on 10/9/09


Jerry:'A theist: "Evolutionary theory says basicly that all living things, if you go back far enough, probably evolved from a common ancestor."

Oh really...? '

Really. 'Probably' in that sentence has its emphasis on 'a common ancestor' as in there is probably only ONE common ancestor, as probably not two or six. That is current theory. Try to keep up. It is based on the commonality of DNA in all living things, by the way...

Who is Crazy Charlie?

Most living things before the Cambrian Era were softheaded and mushy brained and didn't make it into the future as fossils. I expect paleontoligists of the future will find the same to be true of our time...
---atheist on 10/9/09


Steven,

'Proof is in the eye of the beholder - whether scientist or religious.'


Okay. But the proof that 'scientists' accept requires much more rigorous examination.

Since when do archaeologists disagree with the consensus of scientists in other fields?
---atheist on 10/9/09


Warwick:"If evolution is a scientific fact we must be able to prove it so, by testing, observation, and retesting-the scientific method."

It's a 'theory'.

"But you say evolutionists do not propose the ancestor of birds was a reptile or a dinosaur? This is untrue, as a little research will show."

You need to keep up. Theory is birds and reptiles had a common ancestor. Birds did not evolve from reptiles, nor the other way around.

Theory is birds came from the same common ancestor as an orchid or yourself for that matter.
---atheist on 10/9/09




Lee: I think your interests in the 1st 3 days of creation is ungodly. You cannot crucify Warwick, Christ did die for him. Why are you not interested in proving if truly you decended from your great-grand-father between 70-250 years ago BUT you want Warwick to prove something that God did ~6000 years ago. No human being was alive when God was creating. In fact in HIS great wisdom HE created human-being last, it must have been because of people like you who wastes so much time trying to contradict what God has said. Repent! every one that propounds & teaches what is contrary to what God says is in the direction of hell.
---Adetunji on 10/9/09


//You are unaccustomed to being contradicted, and having your false nonBiblical beliefs exposed.

What I am totally unaccustomed to is being accused of holding non-biblical (spiritual) beliefs and not really knowing what they really are.

It is simply an obvious fact that the Bible does not inform us as to the duration of the early Creation periods.

So you say you got a special annointing from God Himself to defend the gospel against those who may have different perspectives on minor issues? Have you ever imagined that it is you that needs correction as well as counseling?

Ro 2:21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself?
---lee on 10/9/09


It took 6 days to create the modern world.
I would assume the old world void and without form was created instantly as God spoke the command.
Who knows how long the earth sat there void and formless before the Father created the modern world?

---larry on 10/8/09


A theist: "Evolutionary theory says basicly that all living things, if you go back far enough, probably evolved from a common ancestor."

Oh really...?

Then perhaps you and crazy Charlie can explain from what the myriad of life forms in the Cambrian layer evolved.

You used the term "probably." Would you care to show your probability calculations? Such statements are not scientific theory at all, but rather childish conjecture - with no basis at all in science.
---jerry6593 on 10/9/09


atheist: ""The scientist believes in proof without certainty, the bigot in certainty without proof."

Proof is in the eye of the beholder - whether scientist or religious.

atheist: "There is much more "overwhelming evidence" to support the bible (through the scientific method - archaeology) than evolution."

atheist: ""According to who?

Archaeologists. Are they not part of the scientific community?

atheist: "That really is not the current consensus of most living scientists."

In what field? Would an astronomer be qualified to dig up facts of history? If there were 100 scientists and one was a archaelologist then you would be right.
---Steveng on 10/8/09


Atheist that was evasion. If evolution is a scientific fact we must be able to prove it so, by testing, observation, and retesting-the scientific method. Otherwise it is but belief. I asked if you could propose a test to prove evolution true. Obviously you cannot, hence the evasion. Don't feel bad no one has ever been able to, for obvious reasons.

Evolutionary theory does propose a common ancestor, for all living things. But you say evolutionists do not propose the ancestor of birds was a reptile or a dinosaur? This is untrue, as a little research will show.

A thought experiment for you: in evolutionary terms there was a time when birds did not exist. Correct? Then where did they come from?
---Warwick on 10/8/09


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Warwick, I really like you and really respect you. On this subject I disagree with you. It is not to take sides but I am speaking on this subject and this subject only. What I find is that too many times, because one disagrees with one topic it seems that there can be no agreement on other subjects. It should not be that way. We can never agree on every single interpretation.
In my opinion after looking at the first first two verses and reading what so many theologians have to say on the two verses of Genesis they are split on how to see the two verses. Nothing is worse then to interpret a verse only to make it fit our believes on other matters. If the topic does not reconcile with other passages then we should find out why.
---MarkV. on 10/8/09


Warwick:"If you disagree please propose a scientific experiment whereby we can prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that reptiles did indeed evolve into birds."


Why would anyone want to do that? Evoultionary theory doesn't support the idea. Is that something from the Bible? Must have missed that part...

Evolutionary theory says basicly that all living things, if you go back far enough, probably evolved from a common ancestor. But the idea that a snake evolved into a chicken,...no...no...no!
---atheist on 10/8/09


Lee I don't war against Christians. The battle isn't against 'flesh and blood' but between God's Truth and deceit. I feel called to oppose those who undermine God's Truth, to expose the consequences of this unTruth.

I believe your slanders, and childish name calling come from anger. You are unaccustomed to being contradicted, and having your false nonBiblical beliefs exposed. In anger of exposure and having no real answer you to resort to insult.

I have my share of faults but suffering from delusions is not one of them. I can sort the sheep from the goats!

Possibly you have had considerable experience with councellors and can suggest a good one?

I would not go so far as to describe you as a crackpot Lee.
---Warwick on 10/8/09


Steven,

Ashley Montagu: "The scientist believes in proof without certainty, the bigot in certainty without proof."

So those folks at CalTech were apparently not bigots, and honestly prefaced their comments with language that noted their belief that no amount of evidence makes anything certain.

"There is much more "overwhelming evidence" to support the bible (through the scientific method - archaeology) than evolution."

According to who?

That really is not the current consensus of most living scientists.
---atheist on 10/8/09


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Warwick:

Again, and again you mention 24 hour days, as if 24 hours is some kind of standard. Yet you will not find a single verse that mentions this as a definition. All biblical descriptions of a day are made from evening to evening and sunset to sunset, never a number of hours. And, as I mentioned earlier, on the day when the sun stood still over Gibeon, that particular day was LONGER - because of the sun's position. If days were measured by 24 hours, then it would NOT have been longer, regardless of the sun's position in the sky.
---StrongAxe on 10/8/09


\\Evolutionists believe the ancestor of birds was a reptile or dinosaur.\\

Wrong.

Evolutionists say that the ancestors of birds are dinosaurs, as they have more in common than dinosaurs and reptiles.

For example, birds and dinosaurs have porours bones. Reptiles do not. There have been feathered dinosaur fossils discovered, but there are no feathered reptiles.

However, it seems that dinosaurs and reptiles have a common ancestor.
---Cluny on 10/8/09


Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

While we recognize 'days' in this verse refer back to the creation 'days', there is nothing in the verse that speaks of their duration.

However, the word 'day' took on a totally different meaning after the sun was created during the 4th 'day of creation. There was a sunrise and sunset after the 4th day and that became what we came to understand as a 'day'.

Obviously the first 3 'days' had diffferent characteristics.

Sorry that the truth is driving Warwick off the edge but that is what happens when ones' pet beliefs are proven invalid.
---Lee on 10/8/09


It is apparent that Warwick in his wars against other Christians is really become more and more delusionary.

Perhaps he should seek professional counselling as soon as possible before he really harms himself.

It is unfortunate that some on this forum have mental problems and turn themselves in crackpots.
---Lee on 10/8/09


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Lee: "John 10: 6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them."

Although a bit off topic, you are absolutely correct. In context, the communion symbols were clarified by Christ when many walked away because they thought He was teaching cannabalism. He said:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: THE WORDS that I speak unto you, they ARE SPIRIT, and they are life.

These emblems (flesh and blood) are spiritually symbolic - not literal.
---jerry6593 on 10/8/09


Lee contradicts the plain message of Genesis. He believes God incapable of lighting the earth without the sun! Such faith, not!

God said, "Let there be light," and there was light...he separated the light from the darkness...called the light "day,"...darkness he called "night." ..there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.'

God said there was light-Lee says there wasn't!
Nonlight separated light from darkness!
Nonlight created daylight.
Lack of light, which wasn't there, created darkness.
Evening and morning-created by nonlight.

Lee believes God can create the sun but cannot create light without the sun!
---Warwick on 10/7/09


atheist: "...and that there is overwhelming evidence to support [evolution]."

There is much more "overwhelming evidence" to support the bible (through the scientific method - archaeology) than evolution. I attended a lecture about evolution at Cal Tech (in Pasadena) several years ago. Many of the professor's sentences included such words as "may have," "might have," and "could have." All three express about a fifty-fifty probability that an action or condition occurred. Any ideas that scientists have that is beyong the earth's atmosphere, under the earth's oceans, or within the human mind is purely speculation.
---Steveng on 10/7/09


Atheist I once worked at developing pharmaceuticals. Beliefs about evolution or creation were not involved. It was all testing/retesting/observation-the scientific method. Anything which cannot be proved outside of this method is not fact, but belief.

Evolutionists believe the ancestor of birds was a reptile or dinosaur. This is claimed to have happened in the past, isnt happening now, and cannot be tested by the scientific method, so is belief.

Beliefs are fine, however I do object when microbe-to-man-evolution is taught as proven fact. It isn't, for the above reasons.

If you disagree please propose a scientific experiment whereby we can prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that reptiles did indeed evolve into birds.
---Warwick on 10/7/09


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StrongAxe, you confidently say we cannot know the length of days 1 and 2 of creation. However there is nothing in all of Scripture which says they are other than ordinary earth-rotation, 24hr-days as we call them.

Everything in Genesis ch. 1, Exodus 20:8-11, and elsewhere shows they are ordinary 24hr days.

Even the sceptic Lee provided the Holman Bible Dictionary definition which says Genesis 1:5 defines a 24hr day. Other Christian reference works agree, as did most of the Church fathers.

If creation days are not six ordinary days then the Sabbath command would have been incomprehensible to the Israelites, with fatal consequences.

The 24hr day view fits with Scripture, grammar, and logic, others don't.
---Warwick on 10/7/09


\\ Cluny having taken communion in numerous churches I have looked and there was no blood or flesh offered. \\

What you're saying, Warwick, is you pick and choose which parts of the Bible you accept literally......

This is EXACTLY the same thing you are accusing others of doing.
---Cluny on 10/7/09


//Conversely I have looked and from sunset, to sunset is a day.

That has been my observation as well, but during the Genesis creation there was no sunset or sunrise as there was no sun duing the first 3 days.

While I understand from the literature that 'evening & morning' on the first 3 days is a delimiter, there is nothing that tells us the time difference between morning & evening or what described each during the first 3 periods.

In any case, we do agree on whether the body and blood of Christ becomes the actual body & blood of christ in the Eucharist. It would be hard for me to visualize a piece of bread becoming the god of this universe when the Bible tells us that the earth is his footstool. acts 7:9
---lee on 10/7/09


Warwick,

Your are correct, as far being an atheist, that is a 'belief'---I believe there is no 'god'.

Looking at the question of 'god's' existence from a science viewpoint, I would have to say I am agnostic, because there can be no disproof ofa negative, and the failure to find evidence does not prove 'god' does not exist.

But the theory of evolution is not a philosophy or a religion, no matter how you or Jerry contort the meaning of 'theory'. Like any scientific theory, law, or fact, it is continually tested and evidence for it examined by numerous scientists. Most scientist, across numerous disiplines argee that it does meet the requirements of a scientific 'theory' and that there is overwhelming evidence to support it.
---atheist on 10/7/09


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Lee, simply untruthful.

As previously pointed out many times 'a day' is defined in Genesis 1:3-5. You must agree, you provided the Holman Dictionary reference for this!

Genesis 1 says God created in 6 of 1:3-5 days, confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11 where God says He created in 6-days, rested the 7th, so they would work for 6 of these days and rest the 7th. Of necessity, you ignore this. This is by definition deceit.

You would have us believe God said He created in 6 days, so they would work for 6 days but He really meant His 6 and their 6 days were of vastly different length but forgot to tell them so!br>
Truly absurd, contrary to Scripture, grammar and logic.
---Warwick on 10/7/09


Lee let me put it to you somply, with a question!

Think Exodus 20:8-11(imagine you are there, a little sand between the toes.) God says you (collectively) are to work for 6-days, rest the 7th. Why? 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.'

Do you notice the 'For? Do you comprehend what it is there for? God is saying you are to work 6, rest the 7th because He created in 6,rested the 7th!

But you insist the two groups of 7 days are not the same length! But God gave no clue that this was so. How confusing.

The question: How would you know how long your 6+1 days were?
---Warwick on 10/7/09


Warwick:

It has been common sense to everyone on the planet in every age when humans have walked the earth just what a day is. Nobody needs to explain it. The conditions for this have existed from day 3 until the present. However, those same conditions did NOT yet exist on days 1 and 2.

There are many other things that we also take for granted that have also been true since time immemorial, but were not true in the very beginning. For example, our notion of 'up' depends on there being an earth, so before that, there was no 'up'. Something else that anyone else can explain is 'yesterday', something that existed on every day except day 1.
---StrongAxe on 10/7/09


How long did God take to create the world? The Bible says six days, but some Christians say many more. Why?---jerry6593 on 10/5/09

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Jerry, do you know what I find so exctiting about this verse? It is that our ONLY understanding of creation came when we read Genesis 1, and other scriptures. If we did not have Gods word we could not through faith understand anything about creation. Hebrews 11 is teaching us GOD's definition of FAITH .
AND it also lets me know that my faith in God's word doesn't mean I did any of the work in creation, because I believe God.
---kathr4453 on 10/7/09


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Warwick: Yes, Christians are to oppose anti-God ideas based upon the word of God as contained in the Bible. Do you think I believe otherwise?

All I'm really saying is Christians "primary focus" shouldn't be on what people think, but on what God says. Yes, we should try & understand what & why people think what they think. However, we can't make them think other than what is in their heart.

True, whole denominations are falling by the wayside because they aren't rooted & grounded in the word of God. Many in the Church-house (from the pulpit down to the pew) aren't Christians in the first place. So. I'm not the least bit surprised.

Again, the main Christian focus should always be on what God says.
---Leon on 10/7/09


Lee*
"This is My Body, this is My Blood," sounds very clear to me.Do you take Jesus at His Word or try to explain it away?
----
John 10: 6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

So when Jesus said This bread is my Flesh which I will give to the world (Jhn 6:51), this was a figure of speech? Do you also denied the incarnation,virgin birth, resurrection?

Lee* While you should eat your veggies, there is no necessity for you to eat your god in a literal sense!!!

And as you are eating your veggies, you might want to consider that yes I have to Eat his Flesh and drink his Blood to have Eternal life as he said in Jhn 6:54
---Ruben on 10/7/09


Cluny ->>You actually think that YOU know what God means?
"This is My Body, this is My Blood," sounds very clear to me.Do you take Jesus at His Word or try to explain it away?
----
John 10: 6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

While you should eat your veggies, there is no necessity for you to eat your god in a literal sense!!!
---lee on 10/7/09


Cluny having taken communion in numerous churches I have looked and there was no blood or flesh offered.

Conversely I have looked and from sunset, to sunset is a day.

In Exodus God told the Israelites they would be executed if they worked on the Sabbath. God is not a monster and would have informed them when that day was.
---Warwick on 10/7/09


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Good point Ktiso. Be carefull, if you continue defending God's word Lee will call you a fool.

"However, the sun and the moon did not yet exist, in order that those who live in ignorance of God may not consider the sun as the origin and the father of light, or as the maker of all that grows out of the earth. That is why there was a fourth day, and then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven.'

Obviously Basil had no time for the idea that the first 3 days of creation were not 24hr days.
---Warwick on 10/7/09


A theist: "Christians have cars, turn the key and car goes. They know there are a multitude of interacting systems, with corresponding 'scientific' explanations that make the car go, not 'god's' voice. They want the same for the universe."

I am a degreed physicist. I understand (most of) the interacting systems that make a car go. I am also a Christian. My scientific background in science and mathematics tell me that the spontaneous generation of life on earth by any naturalistic process is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE! Thus, not only do I NOT want a naturalistic explanation for the genesis of the universe, but science and mathematics have convinced me that the origin of life was a SUPERNATURAL event.
---jerry6593 on 10/7/09


Greg, I am more in favor of what you said and how you said it. Many times in Scripture things are not exact. When God mentions that 5,ooo died that day, we have to understand it could have been 5,003 but estimately around 5,000. We except it as Truth. God does not lie, but doesn't have to give exact number to be right. The first verse Gen. 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" This was the world that then was.
2 Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" There is no date, information, nor calendar for original creation. We must distinquich between create and make.
---MarkV. on 10/7/09


Ktisophilos -Lee justifies his unbelief in Genesis:

Quite the contrary. I believe entirely in the Genesis record as well as the rest of scripture. Your problem is much like Warwicks' in that you both have a need to read into the Genesis record things that are not there. As such your belief in the 6 literal 24 hour creation thing is totally extrabiblical.

All you need to do is to point to at least one scripture that states the duration of the creation days but alas, you cannot do that.

While I am definitely not a proponent of the YEC theory or of the classical evolutionary theories, I recognize the merits of both simply as theories having little or no concrete support either in science or religion.
---lee on 10/7/09


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\\If you are correct the Israelites could have had no idea what He meant. Cannot God communicate clearly?\\

You actually think that YOU know what God means?

"This is My Body, this is My Blood," sounds very clear to me.

Do you take Jesus at His Word or try to explain it away?
---Cluny on 10/6/09


Cluny in Genesis God defines what an earth-day is, using that definition to describe the following 5 days. Add it up, He created in 6-days. He then told the Israleites He created in 6-days and rested the 7th so they would work for 6-days and rest the 7th.

If you are correct the Israelites could have had no idea what He meant. Cannot God communicate clearly?

Read Numbers 7:12-78-leaders brought their offering to the altar 'each day.' 'The first day, the second day, the third day...' Are these 24hr days or days of unknown, unknowable length?

Read Genesis chapter 1 'the first day, the second day, the third day...' Where is the difference?

Cluny the doubt about creation day length does not come from Scripture.
---Warwick on 10/6/09


Cluny, you talk of days being of fluid length. So tell me how long or short they could be, and why?

Also read Exodus 19:9-19 The Lord told Moses He would meet with His people on the 3rd day.

Could they know what God meant by the third day? Not if you are correct.

Note He told them to wash their clothes, and abstain from sexual relations. So as to be ready to meet with Him. The length of the days is obvious isn't it? They had no clocks and measured the days from evening to evening didn't they?

If the days were long periods as some say then there would be no Israelites left, right?

But they were there weren't they? Musta known what He meant by the 3rd day!
---Warwick on 10/6/09


Greg, Peter can only compare a day to a thousand years, and a thousand years to a day as his readers already knew what the words meant. It does not say a day is a thousand years to God, and definitely not to man. And this verse is not about creation.

If it does not matter how long the days are why did God carefully define a day in Genesis 1:3-5, and say He created in 6 of these, telling the Israelites they were to work for 6 of these days. If not literal what does this commandment mean? Is it wrong? Is the commandment about murder also up for reinterpretation?

It cannot be 6 days in God's time as He is eternal and therefore by definition outside of time.
---Warwick on 10/6/09


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Leon, in the past decades long-ages, theistic evolution etc thinking has lead people away from Biblical Christianity into liberalism, which believes very little Scripture to be Truth.

Whole denominations rotted from inside because people were not prepared to stand against error.

Read 2 Corinthians 10:4,5 'The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.'

Is this telling us to oppose antiGod ideas, or not Leon?
---Warwick on 10/6/09


StrongAxe, 'day' has 3 meanings in English, Hebrew, and the other languages I know.

They can be illustrated in one simple sentence "In my father's day, by driving all day it was possible to cross Australia in 10 days."

1) 'In my father's day'-meaning time, when he was alive. Genesis 2:4, Psa. 102:3

2) 'all day'-daylight Genesis 1:14, 3:8

3) '10 days' always 24hours when used with a number. Genesis 1:5 See also Numbers 7:12-78

See the Holman Bible Dictionary p.397.

This is standard English grammar. This is the way we use 'day' in speech and literature.

God commanded the Israelites to word for 6 days and rest the 7th. Were they 24hr days or not?
---Warwick on 10/6/09


Atheist, you wrote 'And God SAID, Let there be light, and there was light', explains nothing.'

Then the speculations written in evolutionary textbooks explain nothing.

We have always maintained that we accept Scripture by faith. Likewise you accept evolution by faith. If either could be proved by the scientific method then there would be no room for argument, would there? Do people argue about the boiling point of water, the melting point of metals, whether gravity exists etc? Of course not as they can be observed, and repeatedly tested.

Why is your faith better than my faith?
What blessings does your faith bring to you?
What benefit has your faith been to the earth?
---Warwick on 10/6/09


I say again, there is Time with God, not that God is limited by time, as it is Witten his ways are not man's was. God told Adam in the day he eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he would truly die. God can not lie. Adam died before he was 1000 yrs old, and so he died in that day as the LORD has said. Yes, Adam also died instantly because he became separated from God, which is true death, both the spiritual and natural. But Adam did not see that day with the LORD after eating of the tree, dying with in a 1000 yrs. Days with God are not limited to mans understanding of a 24 hr clock.
---Greg on 10/6/09


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"Long-ages views [opinions]...side issue?" Warwick, 10/6

I gather the gist of your comments, to me, have to do with the spurious & contradictory long-ages opinions men of whom I have no interest in (actually regard as superflous) in light of what the Bible says. Didn't we fairly recently bump heads on this very subject on another blog? :)
---Leon on 10/6/09


Warwick:

First of all, with reference to "English grammar". There is nothing in the English language nor in the English translation of the Bible that says a day is 24 hours. The same is true of the Hebrew language and the Hebrew scriptures themselves. We currently use 24 hours (or 86400 seconds), but before modern times, days in every language have been tied solely to the motions of the earth and the sun. Of particular note is the day God made the sun stand still over Gibeon (Joshua 10:12-14). That day was longer, which would not have been the case if we measured 24 hours rather than sunset to sunset.
---StrongAxe on 10/6/09


Jerry,

'And God SAID, Let there be light, and there was light', explains nothing.

One could attach anything after 'God SAID' and pretend to have an explanation for anything. It's an easy out for those who need a reason for something,---'god' did it by speaking. 'Creation' is therefore the result of the 'god's' voice. The mechanism of creation is then just the singular and unsupported belief in the power of "god's" voice. Not an explanation at all.

Christians have cars, turn the key and car goes. They know there are a multitude of interacting systems, with corresponding 'scientific' explanations that make the car go, not 'god's' voice. They want the same for the universe.
---atheist on 10/6/09


\\Cluny do you imagine it would change anything or give support to the long-ages view if the 6-days of creation were 23hours long? If yes why?
---Warwick on 10/6/09\\

My point is that the days of Genesis could easly NOT have been 24 hours, even by earthly time.

They could have been shorter--or longer.

In other words the length of a "day" is more fluid than you seem to want to acknolwedge.
---Cluny on 10/6/09


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Scripture was translated so we could understand, obviously using English words, and grammar. Therefore 6-days means 6 24hr days.

'Day' has 3 meanings- 'in my fathers day (his time) by driving all day (daylight) he drove across australia in 10 days (10 24hr periods.)' Simple to understand.

Consider Numbers 7:12-78, where various leaders brought their offerings on-the first day, the second day...all the way through to the 12th day.

Is anyone going to say Numbers is not a list of offerings over 12 24hr days? Surely not, then why is Genesis, where 'a day' is defined, any different?

Is Genesis written from God's perspective of time? Surely not, God is outside of time. He created time for us, as Genesis 1:3-5 shows.
---Warwick on 10/6/09


Cluny do you imagine it would change anything or give support to the long-ages view if the 6-days of creation were 23hours long? If yes why?
---Warwick on 10/6/09


It is written, a day is as a thousand years with the LORD, and a thousand years as a day. The Sun and Moon where created on the fourth day and His ways are not man's ways and His thoughts are not mans thoughts, how long was the day? It is clearly unknown. Honestly, knowing or not how long those days were is not going to stop us from entering in. That is as long as we do not get beside ourselves and pretend we understand what He has hide in Himself.

It doesnt really matter if it was a literal 6 days or 6 days according to God's time. It was six days. What matters is we believe Him, love our fellow servants and speak the truth.
---Greg on 10/6/09


Lee justifies his unbelief in Genesis:

"Probably because the more mature Christian has come to realize that God is not limited by our concept of time."

Tell us something we don't know. But He reveals information in Scripture to teach us the truth (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that what God DOES reveal to us means the same to Him as us, otherwise communication is impossible. Or perhaps God means something different from man when he commands against murder, theft, adultery etc.

Of course God doesn't experience the 6 days, 930 years of Adam's life, etc. the same way we do. But the time frame He reveals must be "man's time".
---Ktisophilos on 10/6/09


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Leon 'orthodox Christianity' begins starts in Genesis where Adam's sin brought the curse, including death upon humanity.

See 1 Corinthians 15:21,22 'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive.'

See also Romans. 5:12,14 and 6:23

The gospel begins with Adam, ending with Jesus who came to reverse what Adam did. Long-ages views place death before Adam's sin, directly in contradiction to what the NT says. This surely cannot be a side issue?

Jesus believed Genesis to be truth and in John 3:12 asked how could we believe Him about heavenly things if we do not believe Him about earthly things.

---Warwick on 10/6/09


Lee sayeth:

"Some noticeable Christians in the past such as St. Augustine believed that God created everything simply by calling it into being and did not have to wait 24 hours before each event."

Of course God didn't HAVE to wait. The question is whether He DID wait! Augustine was actually a young-ager.

"Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed." [The City of God, 12(10)]
---Ktisophilos on 10/6/09


The "days before the sun" canard was no problem to Church Fathers and Reformers. E.g. St Basil the Great (4th century) had no problem, when he described the first three creation days in Hexaemeron:

"The water had been gathered into the reservoir assigned to it, the earth displayed its productions, it had caused many kinds of herbs to germinate and it was adorned with all kinds of plants.

"However, the sun and the moon did not yet exist, in order that those who live in ignorance of God may not consider the sun as the origin and the father of light, or as the maker of all that grows out of the earth. That is why there was a fourth day, and then God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven"
---Ktisophilos on 10/6/09


Lee, later in life Augustine changed his views on creation day-length. In his most important work 'De Genesi ad litteram' ('On the necessity of taking Genesis literally'), he rejects his earlier allegorical and typological exegesis of parts of Genesis, calling his readers back to Scripture. He then believed in 24hr days.

Some experts believe his-made in 1 day-idea came from a deutero-canonical book, originally in Greek and incorectly translated into Latin, which Augustine could read.

None the less his earlier view contradicts long-age ideas.

Also of the church fathers who commented on creation day length the majority believed in 24hr creation days. But rather let us concern ourselves whith what God's word says.
---Warwick on 10/6/09


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Not in a linear sense.
---reoreason on 10/6/09


A theist: "Such Christians are probably not so threatened by more complex and reasonable explanations"

Could you give an example of a "more complex and reasonable explanation."
---jerry6593 on 10/6/09


There are, of course, other things that need are attention (do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag"), but let's reason this out.

Some verses in the bible say that we humans work for only six days and rest on the seventh (the sabbath which, by the way, is not a Jewish law). Then you have other verses that the creatiion was performed in six days (Exodus 20:11). Six days is six days. Even God says six days and who could argue with him?

As for the length, the length of day hasn't changed much over the past 10,000 years as evidence by the moon, the stars and the sun and, of course, computer modeling. NASA even found the missing day of Joshua.
---Steveng on 10/5/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

If God's Omnipotence labeled a thousand year or more of His Creation as a Day then it's a Day, and then on the fourth Day created a Ruling Light to redefine a Day, then now that's a Day and we shall observe six of those Days & rest on the seventh.

Fear nothing but the Lord and no question can subtly discredit the Bible and separate you from the Love in Christ our Lord. Neither death, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God's Word.

I'm persuaded in my opinion that the number of angels that can dance on the head of a needle, is as many as God needs to dance on the head of a needle.
---Shawn.M.T on 10/5/09


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Warwick, you mentioned in a previous post "the death of humans stretching back thru the ages" you forget that Adam was created on the "last" (6th) day.The end of the 6th period of time could very well be 6,000 years ago! It has no bearing on the previous 5 periods of creation!(called days)
To demonstrate creation in 6 time periods God had Israel observe every 7th day as rest (sabbath) "For in 6 days God created heaven and earth!" Use a little discernment here!
---1st_ciff on 10/5/09


Yes,many christians think it must have been more than 6 days,but for me,I believe those 6 days, because God said so.If I or someone else questions this facts what God revealed in the scripture,the same person doubts God,not believing what He said...that would mean,God said,He created the worlds in six days,but He didn't,this would make Him a liar..the one thing I know,God is the truth,He is the only true God,and what He said, is True.The satan lie was from the first time,"Did God really said that",planting doubt into the man's heart,to mistrust God.I hope this helps.
God bless
---tibor on 10/5/09


//How long did God take to create the world? The Bible says six days, but some Christians say many more. Why?

Probably because the more mature Christian has come to realize that God is not limited by our concept of time.

Some noticeable Christians in the past such as St. Augustine believed that God created everything simply by calling it into being and did not have to wait 24 hours before each event.

And we are faced with the fact that the Genesis record does not in the least record the duration of the Creation days especially those first 3 periods prior to the creation of the sun on the 4th 'day'.
---lee on 10/5/09


This blog questions are about as fruitful as the old question as to how many angels can dance on the head of a needle. Was a day originally 24 hours? Did the earth rotate on its axis then the same as it does today? Were any of us -- besides the learned scientist :) -- there in the beginning?

In my opinion, questions of this sort are just another backdoor (subtle) way of discrediting the Bible. What's the big magilla -- what does it have to do with orthodox Christianity/salvation in Jesus Christ?
---Leon on 10/5/09


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The bible means what it says and says what it means. God created the world in 6 literal days. If the God of Moses can part the seas and turn water to blood, do we have any reason to believe that he cannot create the world in 6 literal days?
---helen on 10/5/09


Actually, the day is NOT exactly 24 hours long, and the year is NOT exactly 365.25 days. Both have been slowing down ever so gently and gradually.

So it's entirely possible that the "days" of creation are NOT days as we presently experience them.
---Cluny on 10/5/09


Jerry,

Probably because some Christians who take great comfort in their faith realize that a literal interpretation of the Genesis is non-sensical, and chose a more reasonable approach. Such Christians are probably not so threatened by more complex and reasonable explanations (or can wait until they come along), that they conclude that they would not have to abandon their faith if they accepted those conclusions.
---atheist on 10/5/09


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