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Do You Believe In God

Do you believe in God? Why or why not?

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 ---Betty on 10/8/09
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Cliff, read what Scripture says.

1 Corinthians 15:21,22 'For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive.'

Adam's sin brought the curse and its consequences, including death, into creation. Consider Noah's flood whereby X billion animals died because of man's sin.

Roman's 8:20-23 clearly says the whole of creation groans in bondage to decay, the curse reigns because of Adam's sin.

Read Isaiah Chapter 11- it talks of the coming Messiah and the restoration. What will the world be restored to, the perfection of preSin Eden or billions of years of death and suffering?
---Warwick on 10/16/09


Rod,

Correct. Strictly, if I use reason or evidence, then I can only be agnostic, since it is impossible to prove a negative. I cannot prove there is no Santa Clause. But sadly have chosen to be an atheist in regard to Santa Clause, 'God', 'god', and 'gods'.

'First cause' is an interesting concept. But it is not necessarily a 'thing'. Like the concept of 'infinity', you can always add one to it---but how much bigger is that than just infinity.

What happens when you add a little 'time' to before there was 'time'---what do you get but a little time before that?

If a little is added to 'nothing' do you get a 'little something' or a 'little nothing'?

Maybe there's a problem with the concept of 'first cause'.
---atheist on 10/16/09


it is especially sore for blacks because we've been treated badly over the years by the white brethren and sisteren.... the picture seems to be.
---patie3447 on 10/15/09

Wow, such a worn out brilliant Scriptural dialogue on race handling. Bad old white Brethren and Sisteren.
Bet you wished you didn't live in Bad ole America. The old Country is so much better.

They should give 3 trillion more to pay for a handful of mean old white relatives. Pay collectively, even though your people were not even in this country. You're white...right.
---Trav on 10/16/09


Warwick, Here's one for you:: You claim animals were only subject to death after the "fall" right?
2Cor.15.22 "For as in Adam ,(all die*) so in Christ all will be made alive"
* you say includes the creatures!
So by the same token "all will be made alive" includes,dinosaurs,sheep cattle,birds, all that have died, including the turkey we ate last Monday for Thanksgiving will come back to life.
Can you have it both ways????
---1st_cliff on 10/16/09


The upsurge of Calvinism from the the 1990s on seems to have spawned a large and unprecedented movement of jejune Calvinists who wear arrogance as if it were the team uniform. That kind of hotshot, shoot-from-the-hip Calvinism is ugly. I don't blame anyone for being appalled by it. I'm worried about those who think it's all good and all those who join themselves together in packs of wolves.

It appears many threads here find it's way into the hands of these neo-calvinists who would rather tell Athiest he's not the elect rather than present the Gospel.

You cannot have a Gospel that does not accurately preach hell and God's judgement on sin in order to explain the Gospel of God's Love through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ.
---James on 10/16/09




Warwick,

I saw Coyne speak just a few weeks ago. The thrust of his comments were not about the "dirty little secret" that the scientific community intentionally manipulates those of faith to gain support, as you negatively described his words.

His point was that any accomodation to ideas not scientifically testable corrupts the process.

It is a political fact in the US that 40% of the population believes Genesis literally. At this level, funding for certain science projects is in jeopardy, and with another 11% we can recede back into the dark ages...

Coyne was not promoting the idea of soft peddling the differences, but criticizing those who have practiced it for political expediancy.
---atheist on 10/16/09


atheist, to each their own, however, to believe that there is no God takes a bit more belief than it takes to believe there is a God.

Being agnostic makes more sense. First cause is a fasinating issue. Either the first cause was God always existing, outside our time zone, or matter coming into existence just because.

How can one, such as yourself, make a confident assertion that there is no God. How do you "know" that? Atheists have to just make a decision to believe that. I suggest that decision is based on something that happened to the individual that turns them against a God concept. That's not objective information.

However, people have to decide, what is the first cause, God or .......
---Rod4Him on 10/16/09


You cannot come to Christ because you are spiritually dead to all that is of God.
---Morgan on 10/16/09

Morgan, spoken like a true Calvinist. What I see here is the Calvin Sect on the war path. You seem to be the only ones here having issues, except for Bobby1 who loves to jump in the middle of conflict having nothing of nourishment to offer anyone!

kathr4453, it seems you hit a nerve. Praise God for that.

Maybe discernment of the more spiritually mature can see through this whole charade.

God bless you for your truth in spite of those who are throwing stones.
---Tom on 10/16/09


All who are in the book of life will live forever. The overriding question is where will they live? Some will live in the presence of God. Others will be denied fellowship with God and be in constant agony and torment!!!
---mima on 10/16/09


Kathr,
The sin of the world is unbelief in HIM. Without faith in HIM, we will die. We must be born again to see life.Not all will receive life(salvation) but they will NOT be tortured without end. Its either life or death.
---duane on 10/15/09

duane, what do you believe about the second death? does not scripture say FOREVER AND EVER? Eternal punishment?

Is your eternal life without end? Or will it come to an end someday.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/09




Athiest it might seem to you that because Kathr argues with other brothers and sisters with her heretical views, by putting different meanings in the word, and that it would be the reason why you don't agree with christianity and come to Christ, but that is not the reason.
You cannot come to Christ because you are spiritually dead to all that is of God. So how can you see Christ as Lord and Savior with the old heart you have?
Excuses for not coming forward or just excuses that your old heart feels. Nothing or no one can change your old heart are attitude, only God can do that supernatural act through the Holy Spirit.
---Morgan on 10/16/09


Atheist, I never intentionally misuse quotes. What would be the point?

I am at a loss to see why you believe your Coyne quote contradicts my understanding of the quotes I gave. Could you please explain how?
---Warwick on 10/16/09


"... the accommodationist position of the National Academy of Sciences,...is a self-defeating tactic, compromising the very science they aspire to defend. By seeking union with religious people, and emphasizing that there is no genuine conflict between faith and science, they are making accommodationism not just a tactical position, but a philosophical one. By ignoring the significant dissent in the scientific community about whether religion and science can be reconciled, they imply a unanimity that does not exist.... by consorting with scientists and philosophers who incorporate supernaturalism ...they erode the naturalism that underpins modern evolutionary theory.---Coyne in context, Warwick
---atheist on 10/15/09


Quite often some blogger says tbe Bible and evolution are compatible. The atheistic scientist below disagree. He sees Christians who believe this lie to be helpful dupes.

Jerry Coyne, professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Chicago: a dirty little secret in scientific circles. It is in our personal interest to proclaim that science and religion are perfectly harmonious.

More from Prof. Jerry Coyne: After all, we want our grants funded by the government, and our schoolchildren exposed to real science instead of creationism. Liberal religious people have been important allies in our struggle against creationism, and it is not pleasant to alienate them by declaring how we feel."
---Warwick on 10/15/09


Kathr,
The sin of the world is unbelief in HIM. Without faith in HIM, we will die. We must be born again to see life.Not all will receive life(salvation) but they will NOT be tortured without end. Its either life or death.
---duane on 10/15/09


Atheist, Christians believe the Lord Jesus is creator (can only be one creator) who came as man to pay the price of sin. Also taught us how to live. Please read the NT and tell me what evil He spoke?

I know the joy of people released from the darkness of Atheism, Islam or Hinduism, for example.

Christianity is light, and love, and forgiveness, and eternal life-a free gift. I believe you reject Jesus, because you are in rebellion and will not be told what to do or how to live by anyone.

As regards morality read 'Islam and Terrorism', by Mark A Gabriel or read Surah's 4:89, 47:4,9:123, 8:39,67, 5:51, from the Koran. Tell us how this morality compares with that of Jesus!

Will you do that?
---Warwick on 10/15/09


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Sin is NOT greater than love. LOVE overcame sin. duane***

duane, that comment really disturbes me. First of all, for God so loved the world He gave His only begotten son....who died a horrible cruel death.

Jesus DEATH overcame sin...and only those who identify and are buried with HIM and baptized into HIS DEATH can overcome sin. SIN will have no more power over him. Romans 6.

Our fellowship in His Sufferings, Philippians 3, and Peter re-iterating in 1st Peter chapter 4 tell us our sufferings with Christ....is the acid that breaks the chains this world and sin have over us...

This my friend is what Jesus meant when He said "to eat my flesh" John 6!
---kathr4453 on 10/15/09


Sin is NOT greater than love. LOVE overcame sin. HE is LOVE. HE died for all, that all might live eternal.
Again!! LOVE(GOD) will NEVER torment. If you think otherwise, you DONT know HIM.
---duane on 10/15/09
Duane, am I to understand you are a universalist? You actually believe EVERYONE regardless of personal faith in Jesus Christ is going to heaven?

I never knew this is where you stood.

To NOT teach/preach the truth that the wrath of the LAMB is coming on all who have rejected the Gospel, and the Great White Throne Judgement clearly stating many will in fact go to an everlasting burning fire is LYING!!!!

The question shouldn't be..Do you believe IN God...but do you Believe GOD? Do you believe what HE SAID!!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/15/09


Yes! I need Him.
---catherine on 10/15/09


Warwick:"To the Christian morality is defined by God...."

I take it that 'Christian morality' is defined only by a particular believer's concept of his own 'Christian God'.

Therefore the followers of the God of Islam must lack morality, along with the Jews. The hindus are out for sure. But what about Mormons and Catholics? Have they the right 'god', to be moral?

I have seen it written here that some here have been identified as false Christians by those true Christians with the knack of identifying false Christians, who must also be without morality.

So I take it that I am joined in the natural world of unguided morality, with 'god' believers who just haven't gotton it right?
---atheist on 10/15/09


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MarkV's The 2 Star Resort!

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev:20:6, Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Rev:20:14, Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Rev:21:8 But cowards, the faithless, the detestable, murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, also will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
---kathr4453 on 10/15/09


I know Im probably one of few on this issue of unending torment but I know who and what God is. HE would NEVER think of putting HIS creation through torment unending. If we think of HIM as a tormentor, then we DONT know HIM.
If we experience HIS love for us and what HE did for us we would know HIS love never ends. Sin is NOT greater than love. LOVE overcame sin. HE is LOVE. HE died for all, that all might live eternal.
Again!! LOVE(GOD) will NEVER torment. If you think otherwise, you DONT know HIM.
---duane on 10/15/09


** There is no cruelty in hell. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe than the crime.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09

Is Hell going to be a 2 star resort,and Heaven a 5 Star resort?

First you say in the Adam sin blog that Eve's deception was not really sin, then you say there is no cruelty in hell.

The Lake of FIRE ,include Satan and the false prophet who DECEIVES including those deceived by the beast and take his mark, a place of TORMENT.

Now this is not just a WORD out of PLACE but a whole twisted doctrine of demons!

Jesus Christ came to save SINNERS,not only from His WRATH but Torment forever. MarkV is a LIAR misleading you to believe otherwise!
---kathr4453 on 10/15/09


StevenG, "No"I'm not God, Jesus, are one of your prophets, and I do not read minds or hearts, I'm a servant of God. Why I stated what I did is because I was reading it from "God's Word" He said it, I believe it. Romans 3:9-12. What Athiest and all who are lost need, is for God to change their heart's. An quickening by the Spirit. And he does not display that he has been awakened. Only genuine believers seek after God.
God's word was presented to you and you did not recognized it. Kathr, only joined the party because all she does is cause division and in the process compromises the very Word of God. Later she will say that is not what the passage is saying, and change the whole meaning of the Word of God.
---MarkV. on 10/15/09


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Athiest, I do believe you have a purpose here. Everyone does. My God has seen the beginning and the end, that's my faith. Nothing you do can be outside of God's will. God's will shows He was under no control, but acted according to His own pleasure.
My God is Omniscient, He knows everything, everything possible, everything actual, all events and all creatures, of the past, present, and the future. He is perfectly acquainted with every detail in the life of every being in heaven, In earth, and in hell. He never errs, never changes, never overlooks anything. "but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" Heb. 4:13.
---MarkV. on 10/15/09


Warwick,
Fundamental facts of the nature of Man?

Romans 2:13-15: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

John 8:9: "And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst."
What's the problem?
---Nana on 10/14/09


It's not fair to God
To say that he doesn't exist
Due to flawed Christians
---Christian_Haiku on 10/15/09


Numerous people here have promoted the view that the Bible and evolution are compatible. The prominent Evolutionist, Prof. Dawkins disagrees.

"Many atheists, in the fight to keep creationism out of schools , decide it's best to say that believing in God and evolution isn't incompatible. But I'm a boat-rocker-I make the case that Its difficult to believe in God if you understand evolution." Richard Dawkins Beyond Belief Radio Times, 7-13 January, 2006, p. 27.

It would seem the idea of compatibility it just a story of convenience. Note the comment (they) 'decide it's best to say..', not that it is correct, just a convenient lie, which so many have accepted uncritically.
---Warwick on 10/15/09


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Atheist you believe we would be better off if we loved one another. I agree but there is a problem.

To the Christian morality is defined by God, one outside our system. No one can change 'do not murder' for example.

However in your God-free, naturalistic system, what does love one another mean? Who defines it, you, or by vote? Why should I or anyone, for that matter agree with anyone elses definition?

I am sure many have personal concepts of a god, a convenient god of their own creation. The Christian doesn't and what you may define as a 'concept' is in fact His revelation, which has stood the test of time.

As Christians we are commanded to love one another but that isn't the central purpose of Christ.
---Warwick on 10/14/09


MarkV: "Athiest is not seeking God."

Are you God that you can read his mind? Are you Jesus that you can read his mind? Are you an apostle that you can read his mind? Maybe he is here in these christian blogs for a personal reason, consciously or subconsciously. Or maybe God directed him to these blogs to confound the blogers. Maybe by his mouth he disagrees with everyone, but in his heart he is seeking answers.

Only God knows for sure, eh?
---Steveng on 10/14/09


Mark ... You say "Athiest is not seeking God"

Certainly from what we read in his posts, it does not appear that he is seeking God. And I am sure that he himself would say that he is not seeking God.

But I don't think even he knows exactly what goes on in his mind. I don't think any of us know what goes on deep down in our own minds!

So it is certainly not for us to judge or make assumptions about others.

Perhaps it is possible that Atheist IS seeking God, even though he does not realize it?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


Yes I sure do. God gives me greens, fruits & meat to eat. Jesus called me into His fold to bid His service without partaking of the things of this worlds pleasures to be lost.
Not like where this atheist said oh God just once. This atheist was chased by an big wild animal while hunting for wild-game to eat, the atheist tripped fell down & the wild animal came close & growled, the atheist said oh God. A bright shining light opened to him & God said, why do you call onto me now? The man said, I'm an atheist make this wild animal a christian, God said okay & the light dissapered. The wild animal bowed it's head & said, I thank you Great Creator for this meal I'm ready to partake of.
---Lawrence on 10/14/09


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MarkV ... Please ignore my post of 10/14, which starts "No Mark, I have not taken sides"

It was sent in error, and the moderators I think must have published it before I sent my request for them not to publish!

The correct one was that which starts "Mod, this is my corrected post"

You don't seem to have read that fully before you sent your last post to me.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


//Athiest is not seeking God.

But is God seeking him?

If He is, then he will eventually have the problem of what to do with Jesus.
---lee on 10/14/09


I would agree in the concept of 'god' if that concept was simply: "We'd be a lot better off if we truly loved one another."

Oddly, I think there are a lot of people, of many religions, using many different 'holy scriptures', calling 'God' by different or a ultitude of names that would agree with me. Many are here,,,---not doubt...

Others use their personal concept of 'God' to set themselves apart and above all others, even those of 'faith' who have a different concept of 'God'. Or extend their beliefs to disregard or corrupt the process of scientific discovery.

Perhaps, I have been sent here by 'god' to provide 'revelation' to those who confuse simple love with absolute certainty fabricated out of confused belief.
---atheist on 10/14/09


Lee claims God does not say how long His creation days are.

Scripture says God created in 6-24hr days, days as we live them.

Exodus 20:8-11 God commanded they work 6-days, rest the 7th. Why? 'For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, ....but rested on the 7th day.'

If Lee is correct and the days of unknowable length God's listeners could not have known what He meant.

Exodus 31: 12-15-God twice says anyone working on the Sabbath, the 7th day of the God given week, was to be 'put to death.' In Lee's story it was impossible for them to know when the deadly 7th day was!

But Lee insists, God does not say how long His creation days were!
---Warwick on 10/14/09


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Even the demons believe in God.

One should ask themselves, Do you believe God?

And how can you tell if someone believes God?

Answer:

When one Obeys God!
---kathr4453 on 10/14/09


No Mark, I have not taken sides.

Although you have not answered yes to my question, you appear have confirmed your belief that "God created Atheist for the purpose of torturing him eternally"

I have stated my belief that my loving God did & would not create Atheist for that purpose. As you know that has always been my belief, from long before Atheist appeared here.

So I have not "sided with him"

In fact my statement is diametrically opposed to his because my beleif is that I really do have a loving God, whereas Atheist says that there is no god, either loving or sadistic.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


I still love you Alan. My love is inconditional. You don't have to please me, or answer under any conditions to have my love. Just don't side with the enemy of God. You want to disagree with me that is fine.
Here is my answer again,
"God positively or actively intervenes in the lives of the elect to insure their salvation. The rest of mankind God leaves to themselves. He does not created unbelief in their hearts. That unbelief is already there. He does not coerce them to sin, They sin by their own choices"
In Hell he will receive exactly what he has coming. There is no cruelty in hell. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe than the crime.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09


Mod ... this is my corrected post

Mark ... Yes you did indeed say " I have never said that God creates people to eternally torture them in hell"

But Atheist clearly thought you did say that "God gave life to him so He could torture him eternally"

The fact that I understood Atheist's rejection of that idea does not make me an atheist, nor does it mean I side with him"

You reject the idea yourself ... does it make you an atheist?

No brother it does not, so why suggest it makes me an atheist?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


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Alan, I answered your question with my answers already. Second, Athiest is not seeking God. Have you not read concerning the lost? Romans 8:7,8, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." if he was seeking God, he would have something pleasing to God.
Speaking about the lost,
none is righteous, no not one, no one understands, "no one seeks for God" All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong. No one does good, not even one"

He is an athiest, and you, my brother have taken sides. From the children of God, to those who speak against God.
---MarkV. on 10/14/09


Here's a way to test yourself as to how much you believe in God. Have you told anybody about him in the last 24 hours?
---mima on 10/14/09


//If Atheist is seeking God, then these blogs would only confuse him even more having as many opinions (as well as advise) as there are stars in the sky.

That is probably very ture.

And even Warwick would insist that in order to be a 'good' Christian he must believe what the bible does not tell us, namely that God created the world in 6 literal 24 hour days. And the Adventists would insist to avoid the fire of hell, you must observe the Jewish Sabbath.

While it is all about Jesus, but there are issues some have an obsession with - things that are really not even close the central elements of the gospel.

Do we not all have reasons to be ashamed?
---lee on 10/14/09


Mark ... I am sorry if you think I have put words into your mouth, 'cos I have not done so.

Atheist interpreted what you said as meaning that God had given Atheist life so that God could torture him eternally Athiest says that would mean God is a sadist.

I was commenting on Atheist's understanding of what you said.

Do you beleive that God created Atheist for the purpose of torturing him eternally?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/14/09


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Yes. Because Jesus is a physical and tangible reality, just as I believe Betty is a physical and tangible reality.
---Eloy on 10/14/09


I like atheist just as He/She is. But to the christians I point:

2 Tim 2:15: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
1 Peter 3:15: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
---Nana on 10/14/09


If atheist is seeking God, then these blogs would only confuse him even more having as many opinions as there are stars in the sky. My suggestion to atheist is to take a six month sabbatical from the world and read the bible from beginning to end through the eyes of a child without concordances, novels, and other christian reference books. Listen to the bible also might bring in a differenct perspective. He may find God along the way. If not, he may want to do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" - and then actively DO what he has learned. Maybe he'll find God through people.
---Steveng on 10/13/09


Trav ... You introduce some very interesting thoughts. Why does Atheist come here?

He may be here because He sees the damage that religion (as opposed to true Christianity) has done over centuries, and so wants to stop people following what he sees to be a dangerous religious code.

But maybe he is here because he is, maybe unconsciously, seeking God.


Warwick ... I agree


---alan8566_of_uk on 10/13/09


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I repeat Alan so that you will read it again:
Rom. 8:28,29: to clear the air so that you stop putting words in my mouth about God and those who are chosen.

The Bible teaches that all whom God has thus foreknown, the elect, the chosen, He has also predestined to be inwardly called, to be justified, and to be glorified. The Sovereignty of God brings to pass the salvation of the elect and only of His elect. The reform view teaches that God positively or actively intervenes in the lives of the elect to insure their salvation. The rest of mankind God leaves to themselves. He does not created unbelief in their hearts. That unbelief is already there. He does not coerce them to sin, They sin by their own choices.
---MarkV. on 10/13/09


I do not believe God created Atheist for the purpose of letting him burn forever, but like anyone and everything else, will be for His glory. In the end He will like all of His creation, bow the knee before Him and confess His with their lips.

Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,...

He might,however, keep in mind that many a fool (one that says there is no god) in the history of man, has sought the truth and found the Truth.

Obviously there is a purpose why he is on this forum in the first place being ministered to by Christians.They often come to mock but then have to eat their own words.
---lee on 10/13/09


Mark ... I have put no words in your mouth.

If you re-read, you will see that I was referring to Athiest's understanding ("So he gave me life so that he could eternally torture me?") of what you had said.

I echo Atheist's incredulity that a God who we claim to be loving would do that.

Athiest thinks you beleive that God created him for the purpose of eternally torturing him. Maybe you don't, and Athiest has misunderstood what you said, but you've not denied it yet.

Turning to what you say to A, he does not insult God by envisioning Him as a sadist. He can't do that because He does not beleive God exists. What he does challenge is what he sees as your vison of God as a sadist.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/13/09


Alan it appears I misunderstood what you wrote. My apologies.

I certainly do not believe God created Atheist to eternally torture him. It is everyone's choice where they spend eternity. Atheist believes as he does for what he considers good reasons. I pray the Holy Spirit will show him better reasons, and that he too will inherit eternal life.
---Warwick on 10/13/09


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Warwick ... What I said to Mark was "Although I don't agree with Atheist that there is no God, his remarks are much the same as mine, when he is surprised that God gave him life so that he could eternally torture him"

If I had emphasised the words as I have now done, it may have made my meaning clearer.

Atheist does not believe that if a loving God existed He would create Atheist with the porpose of eternally torturing him.

Now I know that my loving God does exist, and I do not believe that He created Athiest with the purpose of enternally torturing him.

Do you?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/13/09


atheist (10-11) - You have the same opportunity as everybody else- to believe in God & His Son Jesus Christ. That Jesus Christ died on the cross to take away your sins and make you blameless before God so that you don't have to go to hell if you lead a holy life after you receive Christ as your Saviour. Some people who didn't believe in God or Jesus CHOSE to believe & prayed for faith to believe & their prayers were answered. If you give your life to Jesus Christ, you have nothing to lose and everything good to gain. You have everything to lose if you don't give your life to Him.
---Betty on 10/13/09


Athiest, I wouldn't want to reinforce your beliefs about religion anymore then it is already. How much further can an Athiest go?
What you want is for me to show my manners. You're not correcting me on Scripture, you don't believe in God, Hell, the Holy Spirit or Jesus. I know a lot of Athiest, but they don't go around insulting God. They just don't believe and use their time for other things. You said,
"Alan, and others like him take comfort in 'god', but their conception of 'god' is not so twisted as to envision 'god' as a sadist that gave some life so 'he' could eternally torture the 'sinners' among them after death." how can you envision anything you just said if you don't believe in God or hell? Your an athiest.
---MarkV. on 10/13/09


Alan, Everything athiest said you agreed. Lets see, "Two people speak and believe the same things and one is an athiest, what is the other?" You took sides Alan. I told you I loved you twice. You trash my love and side with someone who hates the Lord and speaks against Him, just to respond to something you don't agree with me. He is someone who is here for one purpose only. To put doubt in the minds of believers. You turned your back on your own brother. You said,
"Do you believe that God gave Atheist life so that He could eternally torture Atheist?" I have never said that God creates people to eternally torture them in hell. Not once have I said that, you speak of me twisting things, have you looked at yourself?
---MarkV. on 10/13/09


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For Atheist, God is no more real than fairies, He does not exist.

There is no point in Atheist attacking something that does not exist.

So Atheist argues against the idea there is a God. Can you see the difference?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/09

About Atheist. Lets read some sign.
1. He comes to a Christian blob site.
A. Why this one?
B. Is he curious....or worried...fearful
C. Needs confirmation of his error?
D. An agent to seed doubt? Gain apostles?
E. GOD given to us to spur study,wonder,strengthen?

I C him as all above,probably more. I have noted....he does not look when you give him scripture. He cannot see so it is pointless. He cannot come until GOD draws him....if ever.
---Trav on 10/13/09


Alan, to clear the air so that you stop putting words in my mouth about God and those who are chosen.
The Bible teaches that all whom God has thus foreknown before the foundation of the world, He has also predestined to be inwardly called, to be justified, and to be glorified. The Sovereignty of God brings to pass the salvation of the elect and only of His elect. The reform view teaches that God positively or actively intervenes in the lives of the elect to insure their salvation. The rest of mankind God leaves to themselves. He does not created unbelief in their hearts. That unbelief is already there. He does not coerce them to sin, They sin by their own choices.
---MarkV. on 10/13/09


Alan I took what you wrote 'his remarks are much the same as mine, when he is surprised that God gave him life so that he could eternally torture him,' as saying you believe it surprizing that God gave people life which could only end up in hell. Not so?
---Warwick on 10/13/09


Mark,

Cool out!

No I don't believe in 'god'. But that doesn't mean I don't understand that many take comfort from their belief in 'god'.

Alan, and others like him take comfort in 'god', but their conception of 'god' is not so twisted as to envision 'god' as a sadist that gave some life so 'he' could eternally torture the 'sinners' among them after death.

One thing I don't like about religions is that people use them to beat each other up (or much much worse) because their concept of 'god' is not the same.

Love your brother Alan, even if he doesn't believe in eternal torture for 'sinners'. Please don't fight...it reinforces my beliefs about religions.
---atheist on 10/12/09


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MarkV As usual either you have not read what I said, or you are distorting it.

I disagree with Atheist about the existence of God. Does that mean I can't agree with him on anything? Would you say I could not agree with him if he said murder or rape was wrong?

I do agree with his surprise at the idea "So he gave me life so that he could eternally torture me?" Because I do not beleive that God did that.

Do you believe that God gave Atheist life so that He could eternally torture Atheist?

And can't you see that Atheist is not against God and Jesus? You can't be against someone who does not (in your view) exist.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/09


Mark ... You know I accept God is Sovereign, so please stop saying I do not and please apologies for the implication that I am an atheist. It does not become you.

Do you beleive in the existence of fairies?
I expect the answer is "no".
I would suggest, though, that you would not "speak completely against fairies", but just against the idea that there are fairies.

For Atheist, God is no more real than fairies, He does not exist. There is no point in Atheist attacking something that does not exist. So Atheist argues against the idea there is a God. Can you see the difference?

And he cannot "love to sin" against an entity that as far as he is concerend does not exist.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/09


Alan, you say you don't agree with Athiest and go ahead and side with him. Against your brother in Christ who is speaking for God. Does that make any sense to you? You say you don't agree with him and you believe what he says. How is that not agreeing with him? in fact totally. You don't believe in the God of the Bible nether does he. Its no wonder you don't believe in the Sovereignty of God, because you don't believe in God who is in control of all things. He doesn't either.
You didn't say, "I want to correct you or it cannot be what you said concerning these or that and give the reason why," No you went on and sided with Him, an Athiest who speaks completely against God and our Lord and Savior. Who are you anyway? And athiest?
---MarkV. on 10/12/09


Warwick ... I'm not sure what part of my post that you are responding to. Is it the first paragraph?

If it is, you should realise by now that I am sharing his surprise at what Mark says, which is in effect that "God gave him life so that he could eternally torture him"

I don't beleive that at all .. and one of the passages I would quote would be John 3.16. The word "whoeever" is very important.

My point was that Atheist, who does not recognise God, and thus does not understand our definition of sin, can't "love sinning"
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/09


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Alan I think it is the other way around. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.' John 3:16

And: 'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.' 2 Peter 3:9

Nonetheless some seem determined to reject His freely offered gift, and perish.
---Warwick on 10/12/09


"Do you believe in God?" Yes.
Why? I am, therefore I know that He is. There could be no me without Him, for In Him I live, move, and have my being. Life, as I know it, or has ever known it, had an origin. The origin, of that origin, has to be 'the' source, sustainer and foundation of life. Whatever one chooses to call that beginning, I chose to call Him Father, The Supreme Deity, The LORD and Creator of both Heaven and Earth.
---Josef on 10/12/09


Absolutely!!
I believe in God for several reasons
one of the reasons is that
the universe itself points to the existence of a classic designer/architect
---patie3447 on 10/11/09


the question below about where we were before being born was not meant to be in response to this blog.please excuse my error.
---carol on 10/11/09


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Where were we before we were born? what was out form ?
---carol on 10/11/09


MarkV ... Although I don't agree with Atheist that there is no God, his remarks are much the same as mine, when he is surprised that God gave him life so that he could eternally torture him.

And I echo other objection to your suggestion that he uses his lack of beleif in God as an excuse for sinning (and you have previously said that a non-Christian "loves sinning")

You cannot love sinning (which is loving deliberate disobedience against God) if you don't beleive in Him in the first place! The worst you can do is be deliberately evil ... and I know many atheists who don't do that, who live exemplary lives.

They may be sinners, but they can't love sinning if they don't know they are sinning!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/11/09


Mark,

"you were destine for hell, for I knew who you were going to follow."---God.

So that is why God hasn't clued me in and given me faith?

So he gave me life, full well knowing I was going to Hell? And knowing and deciding my punishment. because he did not clue me in would be eternal torture?

So he gave me life so that he could eternally torture me?

You are indeed lucky that you are on the good side of this despotic sadist.

And you claim I don't believe in God because I want to 'sin'? Why would I worship such a morally challenged sadist?
---atheist on 10/11/09


Athiest, you are right, He made them all, or allowed them to be what they are when they were born to their own nature. So what is your point?
Each one serves a purpose in these world of sin. But it wasn't that way in the beginning, but you do not believe in God or what sin means, since sin is rebellion against God, so if there is no God there is no sin, which, in your mind, excuses you for sinning, so what good would the information be? You could kill just as many of the animals you mentioned kill.
You will have to pay for what you say and do, and you will be asking God, why He didn't give you faith. He will respond, "you were destine for hell, for I knew who you were going to follow."
---MarkV. on 10/11/09


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No.

But if I did, I would have to agree with:

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid--
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!

All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.

All Things Dull And Ugly---Monty Python
---atheist on 10/10/09


The "God" who is distant and does not personally communicate with each of "His" children > no. The "God" who leaves people to guess theoretically about who and how He is, depending on book study, rather than personally experience and enjoy "Him"? No . . . that "God" I do not believe in. But if you mean God who is almighty in absolute all-control and who is our Potter (Romans 9) and who is absolutely beautifully wonderful in love having Heaven's own pleasantness and goodness of peace caressing us through and through us (Romans 5:5) with Jesus Christ's "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:29) > yes . . . because I experience You to be like this.
---Bill_bila5659 on 10/10/09


To believe in God is great! But, the real question is, "What will you do with Jesus?" Do you believe that he is God's Son sent to die for the whole world? Will you receive His free gift of love and be saved forever?!
The Bible says the demons believe in God and tremble." What is your answer?
---tommy3007 on 10/9/09


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