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Seventh Day Ellen G. White

Are the doctrines and theories of the Seventh Day Adventists intrinsically related to the writings of Ellen G. White? And if so - How so?

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 ---Glenn on 10/10/09
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Pierre - The SDA Church does not SUGGEST you tithe. Read the latest edition of the SDA Church Manual.

Page 165
Tithinga Scriptural ObligationAlthough the returning of tithe is not held as a test of fellowship, it is recognized as a scriptural obligation that every believer owes to God and as one of the spiritual exercises in which the giver should have part in claiming by faith the fullness of blessing in Christian life and experience.

Page 168
Christians should heed the command, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in Mine house. Malachi 3:10.
---Gary on 10/16/09


>But this is not what EGW said about herself.

She never said anything that even remotely would sugest that she though of herself as infallible.
---djconklin on 10/16/09


>The conflation of Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany, and the woman called simply "the sinner" into one person is just another papal tradition that EGW was burdened with.

Ellen White wasn't the one who was burdened with any alleged papal tradition. If you had looked up the alleged quote you would have found that it was the critic who couldn't read. Always check any alleged quotes because you'll frequently find that it doens't exist--as in this case.
---djconklin on 10/16/09


>If Christ is most important and the center of a believer's life, why does SDA end up being obsessed with EGW?

He is, she isn't. Why do the critics of the SDA church have to lie like this?
---djconklin on 10/16/09


And you totally cut out 10.

Is there any real difference?

I prefer the whole Bible, myself, not a Bible full of holes. Cluny

We cut out no books of the Bible. I do not agree with your understanding of some of them. Yes we are in the New Covenant in which GOD's laws are written in our Heart as it teaches in Isiah and Hebrews. We are to keep the commandments of GOD in CHRIST JESUS as taught in Romans, 1st John. We read and study and teach out of every book of the bible.

Do you take all books of the bible for doctrine, teaching and instruction in righteouness?
---Samuel on 10/16/09




Pr. Where is the scripture that time, talents, and possessions are not our own, but are a trust?

Sure, we are accountable to God what we do with our lives.

SDA and other church institutions developed teachings to control people and their finances, all in the name of God. After all, who wants to make God made at them?

Where in scripture does it say to have a systematic giving plan?

This "suggested" concept is more than suggested. It's a bit deceptive to say suggested when in reality the pressure is on that it is God's will.
---Rod4Him on 10/16/09


Gary: Let me share with you the churche's effort to support its various ministries by following God's earlier intructions. It is the PERSONAL GIVING PLAN.< TIME TALENTS and POSSESSIONS are not our own, but are a trust given to us by a loving Creator.
That is why the SDA church has prayerfully developed the PGP as a SUGGGESTED program of systematic giving,encouraging Christian Stewardship.
No great work can be built upon emotional or sporatic giving, Th CHURCH RECOMMENDS
that each member develop his/her own PGP to support the gospel systematically and proportionatly in the local church, the local conference and throughout the world.
---Pierre on 10/16/09


The SDA said this about EGW in 2005:

"Her ministry has directly contributed to the preservation of the unity of the Church and has sustained it in difficult times. "

This is EXACTLY what RCs say about the Pope. Cluny

The Pope is declareed the Vicar of JESUS CHRIST and the only sole representive of GOD on earth and the true man who represents us to GOD as our intercessor through the Priesthood.

The works of John Wesley and Luther have directly contributed to the preservation and Unity of those churches for decades. Do you think of them as Popes?
---Samuel on 10/16/09


\\YOu ignore almost 39 books of the bible that seems to me that you ignore a lot more then I do.\\

And you totally cut out 10.

Is there any real difference?

I prefer the whole Bible, myself, not a Bible full of holes.
---Cluny on 10/16/09


\\Second we recognize that the EGW is not infallable.\\

But this is not what EGW said about herself.

||Those who seek to lessen the faith of God's people in these testimonies, which have been in the church for the last thirty-six years, are fighting against [the Holy Spirit.]||

The SDA said this about EGW in 2005:

"Her ministry has directly contributed to the preservation of the unity of the Church and has sustained it in difficult times. "

This is EXACTLY what RCs say about the Pope.
---Cluny on 10/15/09




Hebrews 7 points out paying tithe came before the mosaic law. I preached on Eph 2 recently. I have also preached on all of Galations.
---Samuel on 10/15/09

The church, including SDA, do NOT teach tithing according to Abraham's example - pagan spoils of war, free-will, kept nothing for himself, a one-time event. ONE example in thousands of years of biblical history.

The Levitical priesthood was supported by tithes, yet Hebrews 7 makes it clear that the new priesthood would be different. There is absolutely nothing after Calvary to support tithing in the Christian Church.
---Gary on 10/15/09


First Lee We do not canonnize anyone. Second we recognize that the EGW is not infallable. By the way I read Proclaimation magazine. Their lack of following the Bible reminds me why I am a SDA.

Then don't leave out Hebrews 7, specically verses 5, 12, and 18 which specifically disannulls all the laws supporting the Levitical priesthood, INCLUDING the tithe. Then read Ephesians 2:15, Colosians 2:14 Galatians 4:5, and Galatians 3:10. Gary

Hebrews 7 points out paying tithe came before the mosaic law. I preached on Eph 2 recently. I have also preached on all of Galations.

Col. 2,14 RSV Having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands, this he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
No problem for me there.
---Samuel on 10/15/09


You may think and say you accept the entire Bible, in reality you ignore so much of it. Gary

I believe all the Bible from Genesis to Revealtion is for the church when rightly understood. You tell me most is not. Then say because I do not understand five verses and one chapter that I ignore more then you. YOu ignore almost 39 books of the bible that seems to me that you ignore a lot more then I do.
---Samuel on 10/15/09


My reading lead me to see actions take by committes in a fairly orderly way just as it is done today.
---Pierr5358 on 10/15/09

Why not just follow the Word of God as it is written? Don't you believe God provided for the future in His Word? Do you actually believe God expects man to adapt His Word to what man wants it to say?

God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Period. The tithe was only commanded on miracles of God, or gifts from God, or from God's labor, NEVER on man's income from man's labor.

All you give is excuses for the SDA's false teachings. I stick with God's Word. You stick with what comes out of orderly meetings. BIG DIFFERENCE!
---Gary on 10/15/09


I do not understand why some churches pitch the OT tithe even as a model.
---Lee on 10/15/09

Two reasons come to mind, Lee. First, there is ignorance. Second, lack of faith. Apparently many who teach and collect the tithe lack the faith that God would take care of their church. A pastor recently told me that he HAS to teach tithing because people just don't want to give, and if he didn't teach robbing God, etc., they wouldn't collect enough money to keep the church doors open. He also said that I was correct that tithing ended at the cross and that there is no way to back up with scripture teaching and collecting the tithe today.
---Gary on 10/15/09


GARY: I like Samuel's answer better than mine.
The point I was trying to make is that while there were changes made to the tithing plan (remember that it was an evolutionary process) there was no attempt on the brethren's part to deceive the membershp. Instead they were honestly seeking to come up with a plan that would both please God and take care of the Lord's work and which would be approved by God. Sorry for any misunderstanding. PR
---Pierr5358p on 10/15/09


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\\35. Another alleged material from EGW: {EGW: THE SISTER OF MARTHA AND LAZARUS, WAS MARY MAGDALENE, AND SHE WAS LED INTO SIN BY SIMON. DA, p. 566,568.}\\

The conflation of Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany, and the woman called simply "the sinner" into one person is just another papal tradition that EGW was burdened with.

They were in fact three separate people.
---Cluny on 10/15/09


Gary the discussions our church had about tithing were all done in the open with bible discussions and persuasion. Unlike many we accept the entire bible as the word of GOD and all is to be used for doctrine, correction and instruction. ---Samuel on 10/15/09

Then don't leave out Hebrews 7, specically verses 5, 12, and 18 which specifically disannulls all the laws supporting the Levitical priesthood, INCLUDING the tithe. Then read Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, Galatians 4:5, and Galatians 3:10.

You may think and say you accept the entire Bible, in reality you ignore so much of it.
---Gary on 10/15/09


I do not understand why some churches pitch the OT tithe even as a model. The New Testament recommends what is known as grace giving- giving to the Lord's work in accordance to how one has been blessed and from what is in ones heart.

Our church tells us that ten percent is a 'recommended' contribution and should be viewed only as a goal.

While some can met that based upon their income, there are circumstances in which money cannot be given to the Lord's works - things like heavy medical expenses, lack of gainful employment, etc.

It is in the spirit of love towards others and God that we give, and clearly the legal tithe is anything but that. Gary is right in that respect.
---Lee on 10/15/09


//You are living proof of the accuracy of Ellen White's connection between a depraved appetite and mental dysfunction.

That is often a comment coming from those who simply know that they do not possess the truth from/of the Truth.

Ellen White was controversial even during her day and the one fact that stands out is that the majority of those who have left Adventism has done so because of her crazed teachings.

It is just unfortunate that the Adventist leadership had to canonize her as a infallible saint of God when it was so obviously that she was not. But the blind that leads the blind often will fall into the nearest ditch.





---Lee on 10/15/09


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Dear Jerry6593 if you cannot say anything helpful or nonderogatory then do not answer. As Christians we are act with respect to all no matter their attitude or words.

Gary the discussions our church had about tithing were all done in the open with bible discussions and persuasion. Unlike many we accept the entire bible as the word of GOD and all is to be used for doctrine, correction and instruction. I see not deception but legitmate dialogue and seeking understanding from the WORD of GOD as the final authority.

Lee and DJconklin do not forget to take into account the time EGW wrote. By the way wigs were often treated with chemicals that today we know as posinous.
---Samuel on 10/15/09


So, you were not exactly honest with what you wrote about the way the tithe was promoted and your amazement at the dishonesty of the leadeship over the years is totally baseless.
---Pierr5358 on 10/15/09

This is a direct quote from the EGW estate's website on tithing.

"Not until 1876-1879, however, did Adventists institute a full-fledged tithing system (adapted from the Levitical model) as the basis for denominational finance. Leaders encouraged members to adopt the tithing plan as God's ordained arrangement for the support of the ministry and the work of the church."

Now, am I dishonest as you claim, or did you make a mistake and not read the website carefully?
---Gary on 10/15/09


Pr. Your research on the evolution of the tithe sounds accurate.

Other instutitions that teach and follow the tithe are also in error.

The evolution of the tithe also describes how other traditions developed and became religious teachings. That's how the Pharisees teachings developed.

SDA has taken tradition to a point where they say, "It is God's word, just ask Ellen."

The add-ons of SDA lead to a path of legalism and away from Christ. Other religious institutions do similar things.
---Rod4Him on 10/15/09


I DID NOT READ THAT THE BRETHERN DECEIVD THE MEMBERSHIP BY TRYING TO HAVE THEM ACCCEPT A PLAN "AS GODS PLAN" KNOWING FULL WELL THAT IT WAS THEIR OWN PLAN. ---Pierr5358 on 10/15/09

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they deceived the members AT THAT TIME. The leaders AND the members knew it was THEIR plan at that time. NOW they teach it is God's plan, so NOW they are deceiving the members.

I've been to more than one SDA church where they say it is God's plan and that those who don't tithe are robbing God. DISHONEST TEACHING by either dishonest pastors or ignorant pastors.
---Gary on 10/15/09


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They studied the Bible: Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, ..."
Since the Christian churches had wandered away from God's plan it had to be re-discovered.
---djconklin on 10/15/09

The "storehouse" was a part of The Temple, and is not part of a church building. The "storehouse" was a place to store crops and animals, NOT money.

Malachi is being addressed to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1:14) and the tithes (Nehemiah 13). Malachi is referring to the Levitical tithe which supported the Levitical priesthood which ended at the cross or when the temple was destroyed in 70AD.
---Gary on 10/15/09


Gary: Just got done reading the history of tithing and:
I learned that the question of tithing was more the result of an evolutionary process than a copy of the OT or NT system.
I learned that there were some changes made to the system to better finance the ministries of the church.
I DID NOT READ THAT THE BRETHERN DECEIVD THE MEMBERSHIP BY TRYING TO HAVE THEM ACCCEPT A PLAN "AS GODS PLAN" KNOWING FULL WELL THAT IT WAS THEIR OWN PLAN.
My reading lead me to see actions take by committes in a fairly orderly way just as it is done today.
So, you were not exactly honest with what you wrote about the way the tithe was promoted and your amazement at the dishonesty of the leadeship over the years is totally baseless.
---Pierr5358 on 10/15/09


The more I read and think about SDA, the more deceptive and into error it looks.

The food issue leads people down a misleading path. They tell people if they eat their way and become convinced of their way, people will think better. Think better means people are getting sucked into their way of thinking. It's insidious.

I know God looks on the heart, however, people can be trapped by the error's of EGW's teachings.

If Christ is most important and the center of a believer's life, why does SDA end up being obsessed with EGW? she becomes the focus of SDA followers.
---Rod4Him on 10/15/09


Yes E.G.White always spoke of the coming of JESUS as soon and constantly warned people to be ready for the soon coming of JESUS. She was in good company in saying this.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

If she spoke of the LORD delaying his coming you would reject her for that. Back to the comment on her mental ability and the demeaning of her. That is not a good argument.

Yes she wrote the staments in DoA. They cannot be disproved or proved. Since the Bible says nothing about them.

Anyone here ever read any warnings about high fat content. Anyone here ever hear of Upton Sinclair and the Jungle?
---Samuel on 10/15/09


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Lee: You are living proof of the accuracy of Ellen White's connection between a depraved appetite and mental dysfunction.
---jerry6593 on 10/15/09


>They knew it wasn't God's plan.

They studied the Bible: Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, ..."

Since the Christian churches had wandered away from God's plan it had to be re-discovered.
---djconklin on 10/15/09


LEE: I don't want to take too much time to deal with your questions because I don't sense that you would enjoy my efforts. I wll give you one example of how you misinterpret what EGW said:
29 Did she say that the Civil war was a sign that Jesus was coming back soon.< Her thoughts were not focused on the Civil War specifically but on the world in general. Later she commented on the war and wrote "Everything is preparing for the great day of God. Time will last a little longer, until the inhabitants of the earth have filled up the cup of their iniquity ... and this land
of light will drink the cup of His unmingled wrath."
For the rest consult the EGW estate.
Peace, PR
---Pierr5358 on 10/14/09


Could you show us the proof please?
---djconklin on 10/14/09

Just go to the EGW estate website and search for tithing history. They have it all right there on the website. It's quite lengthy, but if you read it all, you will see all the changes, and that they even told the church leaders to ENCOURAGE the members to ACCEPT THEIR PLAN AS THOUGH IT WERE GOD'S PLAN FOR THE CHURCH. They knew it wasn't God's plan. It was merely a way to FINANCE THE DENOMINATION.

It's amazing how dishonest the SDA leadership has been, and all the cover-ups over the years.
---Gary on 10/14/09


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Pierre - I would like to see the source material on this comment by White. Do you have it?

"A diet of flesh meat tends to develop animalism ... rendering the mind incapable of understanding the truth." (Counsels on Health, p. 576)

"Meat eating deranges the system, beclouds the intellect and blunts moral sensibilities." (Testimonies Vol 2, p. 63-64)

"Flesh food has the tendency to animalize the nature, to rob man of sympathy which he should feel for everyone and to give the passions control over the higher powers of being." (Quiet Hour Echoes, March '79 p. 41 quoting her writings.)

Perhaps in her excessive dieting she starved her brain a little too much.
---lee on 10/14/09


>Did she or did she NOT write these things?

From my list:

29. That Ellen G. White wrote that "The Civil War is a sign that Jesus is about to return."

33. Alleged quote from EGW: {EGW: Lazarus, leads the donkey at the triumphal entry into Jerusalem. The healed dumb shouted the loudest, healed blind led the way and the healed cripples broke the most branches."}

34. Seeing this, in the light of her calling Him "Michael the Archangel" (Desire of Ages pp. 99, 379, Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1, p. 158, Prophets & Kings p. 572)

35. Another alleged material from EGW: {EGW: THE SISTER OF MARTHA AND LAZARUS, WAS MARY MAGDALENE, AND SHE WAS LED INTO SIN BY SIMON. DA, p. 566,568.}
---djconklin on 10/14/09


>The SDA changed their teaching of tithing more than once.

Could you show us the proof please?
---djconklin on 10/14/09


Pierre stated...which I am ready to send to you for FREE. Just send me your mailing address and I will send you the goods.

I am willing to send you free of charge a subscription to Proclamation magazine. It will give you all you everything you always wanted to know about Adventism but were afraid to ask.

Simply send me your mailing address to lee1538 and I will have it on the way as soon as possible.

Let me know please.
---lee on 10/14/09


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Pr...I believe you spent hours reading stuff on EGW. I don't want to be disrespectful, but I suggest you wasted hours reading stuff defending her.

After reading some of the stuff defending her, I am more convinced that her writings are a waste of time and a distraction from following Christ. Following her stuff becomes "following" Christ. If one follows her, they follow Christ.

If nothing else, her stuff is a major distraction for people who may otherwise learn of Christ. "Take My yoke upon you..." not EGW stuff upon you. Gezz...what a burden following her stuff.
---Rod4Him on 10/14/09


1Cr 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

SDA call the food we eat the Health Message not the Salvation message. JEUSS spoke of salvation in a place where the Pharisees said he was lost for not washing his hands in the right matter. So I want to make sure you understand we are trying to help people live better and longer. Not earn heaven by food.

Also I would remind people that when E. G. White wrote there were no health regulations. Check out Sinclars book on the meat packing industry.

Thinking that the predenomination churches have not changed shows a lack of knowledge of church history.
---Samuel on 10/14/09


Yes Pierre, I know the argument that simply says those who disagree with Ellen White do so because they simply are ignorant of what she teaches. The Roman Catholics makes the same argument with those who do not accept their unique doctrines.

I already have in my collection Healthful Living, The Great Controversy, Desire of the Ages by EGW. Plus What Happens when you die by Marvin Moore (I had subscribed to Signs of the Times), various Amazing Facts pamphlets and a few periodicals from other Sabbaterian organizations.

While I have read many of these books & pamphlets to some extent, I believe you cannot make the case either for Ellen White's unique teachings or the view the Christian is still under certain Old Covenant laws.
---Lee1538 on 10/14/09


//You are more interested in
DARING me to have an answer than in LEARNING from my answer.

Your disadvantage is that I have several of her books and can give you direct quotes fully in context.

It is this hard evidence that you see many testimonies from various former Adventists in such magazines as Proclamation and the various websites created by former Adventists.

You can reference Proclamation website to see as detailed discussions on Adventist doctrine as one can find.
---Lee1538 on 10/14/09


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Lee: I have just spent hrs readig about EGW's health principles.
My reading contains the answers to your questions BUT you have to look for them and find them in about 10 pages of "NUTS" materials which I am ready to send to you for FREE. Just send me your mailing address and I will send you the goods!
For others, go to the Ellen G. White Estate webpage and search:
dangers of meat eating for children.
Happy reading! PR.
---Pierr5358 on 10/14/09


LEE:I almost did not answer you at all because of your attitude. Yu are more interested in
DARING me to have an answer than in LEARNING from my answer.
1. EGW did not say that eating meat would make YOU immoral!
2. EGW wrote that meat should not be served to children because of its influence and that
a meatless diet FOR CHILDREN is preferable.
I will take a little time to research her claim and from time to time I will report my findings.
---Pierr5358 on 10/13/09


\\NOw our church has changed it's doctrines and refined what we believe done through our history. We were not a perfect people so we made mistakes and had to go back to the bible to figure it out. We have had Bible conferences and discussions since our beginning. So should we not be seeking to the Bible for truth?\\

I have no desire to be a member of a church that changes its doctrines--that believes and teaches one thing today, and another tomorrow.

I'm glad I'm a member of the pre-denominational Church that doesn't change her teachings, because with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, she got things right the FIRST time.
---Cluny on 10/13/09


Pierre -Tonigt I just watched Larry King'program.

I have no real argument with those that are veggies only that view expressed by White that eating meat is something that leads to immorality as she stated in Healthful Living.

2 Questions for you to answer.

Will become immoral if I eat meat?

Does meat really arouse the sexual passions in children as she claimed?

Please give us an answer or at least tell us you cannot agree with her.

If you say eating defiles us, then Christ our Lord was mistaken when he told us in Mark 7 that whatever goes into the stomach goes out the drain but it is from the heart that man become defiled.

We all await your answers if you dare have one.

---lee on 10/13/09


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Samuel - Unfortunately most protestant churches teach tithing.

There are many problems teaching this OT law. First, in the NT we are to give according to our means. In other words, many should be giving much more than 10% while others may not be able to give more than a small amount.

The churches that do NOT teach tithing, but rather teach giving and stewardship correctly, actually bring in more money. John MacArthur's mega church in Los Angeles is a good example. He teaches the truth and his church has been blessed.

The tithing principle contradicts NT teaching. We are to give, not tithe.
---Gary on 10/13/09


Our church does not teach the tithe but teaches our giving reflects what is truly in our hearts. And that is more in line with what the gospel is about.

Those that teach OT tithing apparently beleive they have replaced the old Levitical priesthood and the tithe is now only money that should go into the storehouse, that being the checking account of the church.

As for myself, I believe ten percent is where our giving should start if that is at all possible. But I find it wrong for someone to have to borrow money from the bank or take food off the table in order to met the tithe.

The love of money is the roots of all kinds of evil is not limited to rank and file Christians alone but to ministers that teach the tithe as well.
---lee on 10/13/09


It's not what goes into a person that defiles him/her, it's what comes out, behavior.

The fact that there is a major discussion about what one eats in relation how to live a Godly life shows that the teaching of SDA is in error. The topic of church teachings should be how to live a spirit filled Godly life, not what one should or should not eat.

If a church is known by what they eat or don't eat and tells others what to eat demonstrates their error.
---Rod4Him on 10/13/09


First the SDA church is not the only church that teaches Tithing. So all churches that teach that we should give a tenth of our increase to GOD are just after the money.

My problem with this is that most people seem to want the money to spend on themselves. I heard one Baptist minister in his sermon comment that we owe GOD everything so why should we be upset by only giveing one dime out of a dollar back?

NOw our church has changed it's doctrines and refined what we believe done through our history. We were not a perfect people so we made mistakes and had to go back to the bible to figure it out. We have had Bible conferences and discussions since our beginning. So should we not be seeking to the Bible for truth?
---Samuel on 10/13/09


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LEE: Tonigt I just watched Larry King'program. The topic: Should you eat meat?
The guests were talking about such "nutty things" as EGW wrote about. Did you see the program? EGW would have fit right in with the panel and she would not ha been treated like a nut!
---Pierr5358 on 10/12/09


\\I have a list of over 40 false claims that have been made against Ellen White. So, I ask myself: if the critic's cause was so right, so true and so pure, why do they lie so much?
---djconklin on 10/12/09\\

Have you actually dealt with the two direct quotations I gave from her "Testimonies to the Churches"?

Did she or did she NOT write these things?
---Cluny on 10/12/09


Jesus, in Math, 23:23 edorsed the tithng principal!
---Pierr5358 on 10/12/09

And just what do you think the tithing principle was? It certainly wasn't give back to God a tenth of what you earn.

The SDA changed their teaching of tithing more than once. First, it was only those who owned property. The young and old did not tithe. Men were to give more than women. Then, finally, near the year 1900, they decided they could bring in more money by changing it to tithing on income. And then they say you are robbing God if you don't follow their own man-made rules!!

Pure manipulation! Dishonesty! False teaching! Fleecing the flock!
---Gary on 10/12/09


Pierre -//You may not agree with EGW but her views on meateating are shared by many. That's why there are so many VEGETARIANS around? Are they all nuts?

You are attempting to avoid the full content of what she really stated.

If they believe that meat arouses the animal passions in children or if they believe that eating meat cause one to be lacking in morality, then the answer is YES, they are nuts.

I find nothing wrong with being a vegetarians,only with White's view that meat eaters are immoral people. Even the priests at the temple ate meat.

And does wearing a wig make one morally wreakless = another one of her cracked viewpoints.
---lee on 10/12/09


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djconklin //The things of God are foolishness to the unregenerate man.

True, but we should not attempt to justify our own foolishnesss because God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wisdom of man. 1 Cor. 1:12

While I agree with what the Scripture says, all too much of what is foolishness is not of God but simply from the stupidity of man with his own foolish religious beliefs.
---lee on 10/12/09


LEE: Here is another article which just caught my eye. Bottom Line Secrets, Oct.1, 2009 under the heading LIMIT MEAT: "Strict SDA avoid meat enirely. Studies of SDA show that a relatively high proportion eat nuts. Those who eat about two ounces of nuts five or more times a week have heart decease rates that are only half those who rarely eat nuts." So NUTS to you for a better understanding and appreciation of EGW's writings on health.
---Pierr5358 on 10/12/09


GARY: I am truely sorry that you did not have a good experience as an SDA., but the reaons are not the ones you gave.
"I have yet...EGW from scripture"
I am such an SDA. I love the scriptures first and most and I love the Spirit of Prophecy also and I don't quote her writngs as if they were scripture, like you say SDA's do.
I really wish you would make peace with your
former church and become a member again.
Maranatha, PR.
---Pierre on 10/12/09


Pierr5358 - There is no way for me to furnish proof as to what the EGW Estate had on their website since they took it off their site a few years ago, and I am sure they will never admit it was there in the first place.

So you think it is ok to adapt God's Word to the times. Apparently you think that God didn't know the future and/OR you believe that God didn't provide for the future in His Word. If it is ok to adapt The Word to the times, then everything society does we could say is Biblical by adapting the Bible to agree with it. What a joke.

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus is talking to those who were under the OT laws. That says NOTHING about what a Christian should do.
---Gary on 10/12/09


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>I have yet to find an SDA who can separate the writings of EGW from scripture.

ROFL!! We've had one elder in the church who chewed out the congregation because they would not read Ellen White because she pointed out their sins--these people are also the least likely to read the Bible. Another would recite Scripture from memory during the time we collected the offering.
---djconklin on 10/12/09


>I have & have read much of her book "Healthful Living" and much of it is simply foolishness.

The things of God are foolishness to the unregenerate man. Until and unless scientific evidence says something to the contrary it would be unwise to label.

My dad once had a boss who did a study on the internal workings of pigs. My dad's fellow engineers were going to eat ribs--but after the boss got through telling what he found they dicided not to.
---djconklin on 10/12/09


I have a list of over 40 false claims that have been made against Ellen White. So, I ask myself: if the critic's cause was so right, so true and so pure, why do they lie so much?
---djconklin on 10/12/09


>Paraphrase: I am the infallible mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit.

Ellen White has never ever claimed to be infallible.
---djconklin on 10/12/09


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LEE: You may not agree with EGW but her views on meateating are shared by many. That's why there are so many VEGETARIANS around? Are they all nuts?
---Pierre on 10/12/09


CLUNY: Your paraphrse of EGW is invalid. She does not claim to be "the infallable" mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit.
Your comment that she "claims inllability in all things" is totally untrue also.
Stick to the facts, please! Thanks.
Gary:
As for the White Estate takig down part of their website because it was causing them trouble to tell the truth, pllease provide me with drect proof of your claim, such as a
letter from them affiming what you caim! Thanks.
As for "adapting" or adopting the tithing plan
from the Bible, I don,t see anythiing wrong with that. Jesus, in Math, 23:23 edorsed the tithng principal!
---Pierr5358 on 10/12/09


Now did Mrs. Ellen G. White run our church like she was the pope. NO.

When the three foundational Advent churches got together to establish the beginnings of the SDA church One was Sabbath keeping, one was conditional and one believe that a young girl had recieved a single vision encouraging the people.

During the many Bible conference that these and other ministers had to establish the basis of our church. EGW had very little input. She mostly sat and listened sometimes falling asleep.

After the church established a Conference system did she sit as President. NEVER. She followed what she was directed to do by the goverening Board.
---Samuel on 10/12/09


I was in the SDA church for several years. I have many close friends who are SDA.

I have yet to find an SDA who can separate the writings of EGW from scripture. SDAs have mixed the two to where they quote EGW as though it is scripture. In every sermon I ever heard at an SDA church the preacher included EGW's material along with The Word.

EGW herself said that if anyone shows you scripture that contradicts her teachings, don't receive it. That's the same as a cult.

I could go on and on, but the whole subject of EGW turns my stomach.
---Gary on 10/12/09


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The majority of Bible doctrines the SDA teach came from sources that are not related to EGW. Trinity, Baptism, Salvation by Grace alone, Sola Scriptora and many others came from Scripture and were taught by Baptists, Methodists who taught the importance of the Ten Commandments, Seventh day Baptists, Lutherians and many others.

Conditionalism was a well established doctrine and is now accepted by many scholars who are not SDA.

Modern day prophets is accepted by a number of churches.

Our first Church Manual was based on the Methodist Church manual.

Has EGW had an effect on our church yes. But are our doctrines based on her teachings. NO.
---Samuel on 10/12/09


Pierre//In addition she has given us excellent councils in the area of Medecine and Education. Be sure to read her writings before tearing her up!PR

I have & have read much of her book "Healthful Living" and much of it is simply foolishness.

927 page 217 "If ever there was a time that diet should be the most simple kind, it is now. Meat should not be placed before our children. Its influence is to excite & strengthen the lower passions, and has a tendencey to deaden the moral powers...The less feverish the diet, the more easily can the passions be controlled."

It is things like this that makes one believe she was nuts!
---lee on 10/12/09


\\
CLUNY: You say that by the HOLY SPIRIT, EGW meant her writings. FALSE!\\

No. I said that by "spirit of prophecy", SDA means the writings of EGW. It's in their own literature.

But here's another testimony from EGW:

"Whenever I send you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject it as being merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God."

Paraphrase: I am the infallible mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit.

How does this differ from Pius IX's claim, "I am tradiiton! I am the Church!"?

At least Vatican I put limits on the pope's infallibility. EGW claimed it in all things.
---Cluny on 10/11/09


Pierr5459 - The EGW Estate's website used to have the truth on it - they were replying to the book THE WHITE LIE. Apparently their website caused problems telling the truth so they took that part off the website. Unfortunately, there was no way for me to know they would change their website or I would have saved the pages.

You can't "adapt" the OT tithing laws to fit the times. That is changing God's Word. It is the same as saying God didn't know the future and/or God didn't provide for the future in His Word.

Those who teach and collect the tithe are either corrupt or ignorant. Take your pick.
---Gary on 10/11/09


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GARY: You are correct that the church ENCOURAGES tithing. You are incorrect in saying that the church claims that it is following God's plan when in fact it is its own plan. There is no corruption here!
I think the better way of looking at this is to say that the church has adopted the OT
tithing plan and adapted it to todays financial needs of the church.
As for your claim that the EGW estate ADMITS
doctoring her books, give me the quote by the estate provig your point. Thanks PR
---Pierr5459 on 10/11/09


pierrjan and Pierre - Why don't you read the history of tithing from the EGW's estate website. If you do, you will find that the leaders came up with this plan, using the Levitical tithe as a pattern, changed what it says and how it works, and then asked the leaders to ENCOURAGE the members to accept THEIR OWN MADE-UP PLAN AS THOUGH IT WAS GOD'S PLAN FOR THE CHURCH. At no time did they say that it WAS God's plan. Now they LIE and teach it AS GOD'S PLAN.

This is pure corruption in the church. Do some REAL research on EGW and you will learn the truth. The Estate has admitted changing much in her books BECAUSE ONE BOOK CONTRADICTED ANOTHER. And you think she actually wrote what is published now.
---Gary on 10/11/09


Darlene1: "Writings...forget them." Were you refering to EGW's writings?
Can you give me 2-3 examples, direct quotes, from writers oher than Bible writes who tell you to DO as they say. Would apprecite it.
---Pierre on 10/11/09


Writings by persons which are added to Denominations Rules as must "DO" are excess baggage. Forget them. Christians don't need to be burdened with it,as confirmed in Acts 15:28,29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost,and us,to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols,and from blood,things strangled,and fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves,ye shall do well. Fare ye well.. The sad thing about such Denominational rules by men,they carry as much weight to them as Bible. We are Gentiles,not under the Old Testament laws and ordinances and the Apostle given verses above show all we must be accountable for,from OT, as Gentiles.
---Darlene_1 on 10/11/09


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CLUNY: You say that by the HOLY SPIRIT, EGW meant her writings. FALSE!
The HS is a member of the Godhead.
The HS is Go's teacher
The HS convicts of sin.
the HS strives with us, leading us to do right
The HS produces His fruits in our lives.
The HS intervenes for us.
The HS guies us in al truth
The HS convicts of sin.
and there is more...
---Pierre on 10/11/09


LEE: Thank you for your comment about first reading about EGW before criticising her.
Now about your queston. If the Bible is all we need...why EGW?
I believe that the Bible is our first and best guide to live by. However, I also believe that God has blessd EGW with visions which, for instance, allow us a better understanding of some of the events which are yet to take place.
In addition she has given us excellent councils in the area of Medecine and Education. Be sure to read her writings before tearing her up!PR
---Pierre on 10/11/09


LEE: Your conclusion about there being teachings CONTRARY to the Bible in EGW's writings is FALSE!
You may not accept them. That's fine. But you cannot demonstarte that her writings are contradictory. Peace, PR
---Pierre on 10/11/09


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