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Women Of Contempt

Are the women who call themselves Pastors along with having authority over men in contempt of what is written in God's Word? 1 Timothy Chapter 2 and Chapter 3.

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 ---Rob on 10/14/09
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The scrolling Eph. 4:11 was to get your attention, not to raise your ire R4H.:) I may be wrong, but it seems you might have greater issues than data scrolling across the screen. I pray for your deliverance. Peace!!!
---Leon on 10/26/09

I'm convinced the issue of WOMEN PASTORS will never be settled on these blogs with all the opposing, misguided opinions of men & "women" here.

All Christians really have to do is believe the Bible (Gen.-Rev.) without trying to put a spin on it to satisfy one's own personal agenda. But, I guess that's just too much like right...
---Leon on 10/26/09

No John,
Glenn is using scripure to put women back in bondageto keep them as objects.
If what he says is what God really means then WHY did God use MANY women in the Bible to lead if they were in God's contempt?
Theres only one verse that says a woman CHOULD NOT USURP AUTHORITY.
Thats serious business. what if a woman is not taking authorty from a man?
WHat if permission is given?
Then how are we to handle what this verse means?
The Bible doesn't say don't give these postions to women at all. It says that woman are to serve as helpmates- ALONG SIDE MAN FOR THE GOOD OF GOD'S KINGDOM AND GLORY.
Not put women down and say that they can't do anything for God at all.That is why I disagree with Glenn strongly.
---miche3754 on 10/26/09

Leon, your Ephesians 4:11 was scrolling horizonally across the screen and was not holding still, that was annoying.

I guess you didn't read very carefully, so I will say it again.

Eph. 4:11, describes a function of a person. To read Eph 4:11 and read into it 21th century tradition of a "pastor" is going backwards.

You're using a term for pastor, visualing what the institutional church does today and then applying it to a verse written 2000 years ago.

Eph. 4:11 is the only time the term is used in the NT and it is not describing a person who is a "senior pastor" of a local assembly. It isn't there.

Eph. 4:11 is describing one of the functions of the body as the body ministers to one another.
---Rod4Him on 10/25/09

R4H: Do you read what you write? :) I'm really not sure of what you were trying to say & suspect you aren't either. But, in what you did say, you didn't answer my questions.

What about Eph. 4:11 annoys you -- the fact that it's in the Bible & applies to todays Church of Jesus Christ the same as it did 2,000 years ago?

You're obviously trying to skirt the real issue with that "senior pastor" stuff, aren't you? :)
---Leon on 10/25/09

1/1 Study of the teachings from Christs lips. For Christian union

Can our house divided stand?

Dear friend, is the Holy Spirit bringing to your remembrance all of the things that Christ said? In, JOHN 14:26?

Begin with the teachings of Christs lips! If a woman or man does not consent to the words of Christ, then they are proud, they know nothing! And their interpretation of Scripture is not from the Holy spirit. How can you deny your Saviors teaching?
Glenn is right with his application of Scriptures regarding the position of women in the church and with their husband. Please show respect for your husband as the leader, giving respect is about showing love. Are not women about love?
---John on 10/25/09

Leon, I saw your annoying but creative art clip. :) How do you do that?

Eph. 4:11, describes a function of a person. To read Eph 4:11 and read into it 21th century tradition of a "pastor" is going backwards.

You're using a term for pastor, visualing what the institutional church does today and then applying it to a verse written 2000 years ago.

Eph. 4:11 is the only time the term is used in the NT and it is not describing a person who is a "senior pastor" of a local assembly. It isn't there.

Eph. 4:11 is describing one of the functions of the body as the body ministers to one another.
---Rod4Him on 10/24/09

1 of 2.
Galatians 3:1 ..."who hath bewitched you"...
God is neither glorified by doing a favor for Satan, and calling it holy, nor by being a wolf in sheep's clothing. The Lord is not pleased with people who are stiff necked in their ignorance, and have a rebellious heart *1. No one with a heart for God serves the Lord by disobeying him, and disobedient, rebellious, and ignorant people should not publicly preach or teach *2. God does not support people in their rebellion, and does not accept their impure gifts, Proverbs 15:8. A person should not expect to hear from the Lord in that rebellious state, except the word 'repent' *3.
---Glenn on 10/24/09

I agree! Some women & some men... God has built His Church so that everyone (male & female) play significant roles in it. There's the "balance" Miche.
---Leon on 10/23/

Brother, I agree!
But we have some men, like Glenn that just think women are still just objects and can't do anything within the body of Christ.
If you don't believe me, see his posts.
It is really sad so we should all pray for him.
---miche3754 on 10/24/09

2 of 2.
*1 2Chronicles 30:8, Psalm 78:7-8, Proverbs 28:14, Isaiah 48:3-8, Hosea 4:6-7, Malachi 1:14, 3:15, Acts 7:51, Hebrews 3:7-19.
*2 Leviticus 10:1, Malachi 1:6-14, James 3.
*3 Psalm 73:11, Proverbs 3:13, Isaiah 47:10-11. 1Samuel 15:23, Isaiah 5:20-21, 63:10, 1Corinthians 10:9-10 (Numbers 21:5-6), Hebrews 3:12.
---Glenn on 10/23/09

I also agree that women very good at handling money. They spend it so fast sometimes its just a green blur. It's quite a skill.
---ralph7477 on 10/23/09

Niche ... I did not mean that women are always better at handling finances, although in al large proportion of hiuseholds it is a tak they undertake. And as finance officer for an organisation, I suppose that in most cases a man would be better.

But women are better than men at most things ... I was married for 33 years and we had a real partnership. I don't beleive in this "Man must be the head and make all the decisions" nonsense.

I agree "None of us are meant to do it alone" Like you, I would love to have a partner to share the joys and respponsibilities
---alan8566_ofuki on 10/23/09

The Bible says not to call someone...pastor..." R4H, 10/22

Where in the Bible does it say that?

"The 'pastor' as we know it today is not a Biblical position." R4H, 10/22

Oh really?!!!

Ephesians 4:11

"...women make very good advisors and should be consulted." Donna66, 10/22

I agree! Some women & some men... God has built His Church so that everyone (male & female) play significant roles in it. There's the "balance" Miche.
---Leon on 10/23/09

Amen Darlene.
God chooses the best for the job.
Women have a better capacity to love and God sees that. Even though Glenn is spouting the LAW, this is not about the law it is about obedience to God.
He doesn't understand that God will give a woman discernment so she is not decieved through the Holy Spirit. He doesn't understand The Holy Ghost teaches us all things and women have the Holy Ghost to keep them from being decieved by the enemies wiles.
Glenn is one of those men who is afraid of a woman who has a relationship with God, knows his word and has it written on her inward parts. He denies Deborah and many other women who had leadership positions.
---miche3754 on 10/23/09

Alot of the problems that a person has are created by themselves.

Many women have a constant resentment (obsession) that "some men" feel threatened by women. True, but the reason for the OBSESSION about that is that you have given spiritual authority to a human...

Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me".

God is a jealous God.

You have given spiritual authority to a pastor (this is against Jesus's wishes).

Because you have disregarded the fact that the one who hung on the cross and felt the pain of the crown of thorns, nails and spear is the ONLY spiritual authority, you will always feel this constant obsession.
---more_excellent_way on 10/23/09

The only man who has authority over a woman,besides Pastor being Church authority over all,is her husband. Genesis 3:16 gives husbands that,your desire will be for your husband and he shall rule over you. No other man was given the rule or authority over women therefore a woman being a Pastor isn't usurping man's authority,they never were given that authority by God. In 1 Timothy 3:1 where it says "if a man" means whoever or whatever not man. Whoever could be a woman just as simply as it could be a man. The following verses after verse one, would be changed to agree with the first verse . I never will understand why some men are so threatened by a woman in leadeship. The Bible teaches all are equal in God's sight.
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/09

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Genesis 1:27, "male and female created he them", shows that there is an important distinction between the sexes. Genesis 2:18, 20 refer to a wife as helper to her husband, not all women to all men *1. Women are only subordinate to men in the sense that they are to be modest and to the limits described in scripture *2. Genesis 3:16 demonstrates Gods disapproval of Eve's insubordination to her husband, as she attempted to supplant both God and he in 3:1-6 (in 4:7, sin desires to rule over Cain). The serpent says "Yea, hath God said". Satan appealed to her desire to know more, and tempted her to take on authority that she did not rightfully have. This is the same strategy that Satan uses to tempt women today.
---Glenn on 10/23/09

Just because a woman is better doesn't mean that it is better for her.
Women have enough on their plate with work, home and kids to have to do the finances too.
The key here is balance.
And being single parent myself, I can't stand doing it all. I pray everyday for a partner to take some of the responsibility. None of us are meant to do it alone.
Donna I agree. Not consulting the women of the church is wrong and not Godly. Like I said, balance is the key.
God created us women as help mates and we should be allowed to help in what ever gift God has blessed them with. A gift unused is a gift that is lost.
So, Glenn needs to quit misusing scripture to insult women.
---miche3754 on 10/23/09

I agree with Alan, too. Many women are better at handling money than men. Male "Pastors" often spend more money than the church can afford because they see the church as an extension of their personal success.
I don't believe in female pastors or overseers. But, in many areas, not just "decorating" and "hospitality", women make very good advisors and should be consulted.
---Donna66 on 10/22/09

Dont speak to the serpent, and dont offer the fruit to your husband. A woman can't be "obedient" to her husband, yet be immodest to other men. Will you submit to God, or to Satan? If a woman is making a statement that she wants to violate the created order, then she is wrong. It is God who limits leadership by women. Perhaps, due to being raised in an unloving, unstable, or abusive environment, or being taught to be selfish, many women want to control things. They're being tempted by Jezebel, and are rebellious.
And yes, God loves both women & men, so much so that he wants them to do his will, not their own.
---Glenn on 10/22/09

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The old apostle Paul said women should stay pregnant and be quiet, and when they get old and destitute they should join the widows club. Good old Paul! on 10/22/09

I agree with alan.
---Rod4Him on 10/22/09

1Corinthians 14:34-35. Women keep silence in the churches not permitted shame The commands were given to all congregations including those today by the Holy Spirit. And was received by all the Apostles including Paul & Peter *3, all the first century churches including Corinth, nearly all of the commentators for 1900 years, and most of the people who have called themselves believers in Christ. This also is the historic position. God directed these men to write the cited passages. If you believe that there are verses in conflict with this, you are in error *4. Disagreeing are *5.
---Glenn on 10/22/09

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
Friend, are there women, men among you, not bringing to your remembrance the things that Christ said, to the point of not consenting to the sound words from the lips of your savior, Christ?
Then these men, women, not bringing to your remembrance .all of the things that Christ said, are not guided by the Holy Spirit! Do you want doctrines of the precepts men or those of your Father? Can our house divided stand? No, now the enemy stands at the door causing damage, destruction because of our double mindness!
---John on 10/22/09

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Miche ... "Men are in charge of the Church finances. We women are not cut out for that kind of stuff!"

Miche ... that's not true!

Women can be just as good financiers as men.

And in many homes, it is the woman who takes charge of the money matters.

Don't undersell yourself or other women ... they are better at most things than us men!!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/22/09

I don't believe in a woman being an overseer.
Men are in charge of the Church finances. We women are not cut out for that kind of stuff!
Now if a woman helps like as a treasurer or something, she is still under the Overseer.
I agree with Rod on the spirituality of men and women. That type of maturity depends on their relationship with God.
---miche3754 on 10/22/09

Personally, I believe that whether a man or woman who call themselves Pastors are in contempt. I know I stirring the pot.

The Bible says to not call someone "Rabbi, teacher," and pastor would be included. All the more, someone should not call themselves pastor. I also know this is a bit off the track of women having "authority."

The "pastor" as we know it today is not a Biblical position.

However, there are overseers, so I would ask, "Is it Biblical to have women overseers?"

Not Biblically. However, we all should submit to one another. To suggest that men are somehow more spiritually adept than women is ridiculous.
---Rod4Him on 10/22/09

In 1Timothy 2:13-14, when Paul refers to the fall (Genesis 3), he is applying 2:8-12 to all the descendants of Adam and Eve. God chooses to have a relationship with us, but on his own terms. He does not ask us to sin in order to accomplish his will *6. Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure, to dispute it is to call him a liar. Thus, to reject his word, is to reject Him. God chooses whom he will use and where he will use them. A pastor guards, and feeds, the sheep *7. The great Pastor selects men to the pastorate *8. Satan sends wolves, Matthew 7:15.
---Glenn on 10/22/09

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Are your responses carnal, or are they from the spirit *9? And the Lord says no *10! A woman was designed to be predominately concerned with her household *11, and can't be "obedient" to her husband, yet immodest to other men *12. It is a noble and honorable job for a woman to raise Godly children, 1Timothy 2:15. Though, for a few illustrious older women, Titus 2:3-5. To do otherwise, is to bring a curse on your household, congregation, city, or on the land *13. If a woman is making a statement that she wants to violate the created order, then it's wrong. 1Corinthians 11:3-16.
---Glenn on 10/21/09

*2 Deuteronomy 22:5, 1Corinthians 11:3-10, 13, 15-16, 14:(33) 34-35 (36-38), and 1Timothy 2:11-12 (8-15).
*3 Galatians 1:11-12, 16-17, 2:6-9, 2Peter 3:15-16.
*4 Numbers 23:19, Job 40:8, Romans 3:3-4, 1Corinthians 2:14-16, 2Timothy 3:16.
*5 Satan, Genesis 3:1-6, rebels, 1Samuel 8:7, 1Corinthians 10:9-10, the unlearned, 2Timothy 2:15, 3:6-7, 4:3-4, Hebrews 5:11, 13-14, wolves, Matthew 7:15, Act 20:29.
*6 Romans 6:1-2, 1Corinthians 1:25, 2Corinthians 11:3, Galatians 6:3, 7.
*7 Romans 12:6-8, 1Corinthians 12:28-30, 14:1 (to teach), Ephesians 4:11-15.
*8 Romans 9:21, 1Corinthians 12:4-6, 14-30.
*9 Romans 6:19, 8:4-8, 1Corinthians 1:26, 3:1-3, Galatians 5:17-18, Colossians 2:18-19, 1Peter 4:1-2, 1John 2:16.
---Glenn on 10/21/09

A woman shorn represents rebellion against both God and man. If a woman by dressing violates Gods rules she deserves to be rebuked *14. If a man were to wear an effeminate outfit to Church most people would be offended. Why aren't they startled at the women who dress, and act, in a manly manner. Finally, it is the Lord who limits leadership by women. And yes, God loves both women & men, and in fact, so much so that he wants them to do his will, not their own.
---Glenn on 10/20/09

*10 Numbers 23:19, Psalm 89:34 Isaiah 14:24 Malachi 3:6.
*11 Psalm 128:3, Proverbs 31, 1Timothy 2:9-10, 15, 5:10, Titus 2:4-5, 1Peter 3:4-6.
*12 Husband: Genesis 3:16 (4:7), Ephesians 5:22-24, 33, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5, 1Peter 3:1-2, 5-6. In general: 1Corinthians 11:3-10, 13, 15-16, 14:34-35, 1Timothy 2:11-14. Parent: Exodus 20:12.
*13 Genesis 2:18, 20, 3:16 (Eve desires to rule over Adam / 4:7, Sin desires to rule over Cain), Genesis 3:17-19 (Isaiah 32:13), Numbers 12 (Miriam, not Aaron, gets leprosy), Deuteronomy 22:5 & 1Corinthians 11:1-15 (16), Isaiah 3:12-4:1, 32:9-14, Amos 4:1-4.
*14 Deuteronomy 22:5, 1Timothy 2:9-10, 1Peter 3:3-4, or does Proverbs 6:25, 7:10, Isaiah 3:16, Matthew 14:6, Mark 6:22.
---Glenn on 10/20/09

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p.s. The ministry titles in Mathew 23:10-11, Acts 20:28, Philippians 1:1, 1Timothy 3:1-10, 12-13, Titus 1:7, etc. are masculine nouns, and the use here forces you to refer only to men in these positions of leadership.
2p.s. A blending of Christianity with the woman's liberation movement displeases God, and will destroy society: first, raise the women, second, raise the sodomites, third, cause uncertainty, fourth, destroy the economy. Zephaniah 3:2, 1Corinthians 1:10, 11:18-19, Hebrews 6:1-3, 1Peter 2:1-2.
*1 1Corinthians 11:3-10, 13, 15-16, 14:34-35, Ephesians 5:22-24, 33, Colossians 3:18, 1Timothy 2:11-14, Titus 2:5, 1Peter 3:1-2, 5-6.
---Glenn on 10/20/09

Paul was evangelizing idol worshipping cultures that had many prudish traditions that they wouldn't shed (Paul also grew up with those attitudes).
---more_excellent_way on 10/19/09

---larry on 10/19/09
Amen to this too.
Larry I am sorry I couldn't cut and paste all of your post but I really enjoyed it too. My Pastor says the same thing all the time!
Glenn should really listen to you guys!
Maybe then you would find a wife.

And Leon, I am not confused about God's word. I just know in my heart that with any written word, the enemy can creep in. Man's opinion is right there in God's word along with what THe Holy Spirit says too.
---miche3754 on 10/20/09

The answer is yes, but God still uses men who are in contempt of his word. Scripture does not say women cannot teach or preach it says they are not to have authority over men.
This is impossible for women tho achieve without God for many are in quiet rebellion on this matter and erroneously confuse God's order with pagan arguments about second-class citzens.
On the other hand men tend to confuse power with humility and servant leadership and also miss the mark if they are not led by the holy spirit.
No gender can fulfill his or her roles without submission to the Holy Spirit.
---larry on 10/19/09

So you think that scrolls that are 2000 years old have been worn away?! Okay I guess none of you have ever looked at really old books.
Me being a lover of books, I know that unless really old paper is kept from being exposed to oxygen, WILL fall apart.
And yes I am saying that parts were eaten away by Time Rob.
Men added parts that were missing. It is truth whether you Want to realize it or not, men are not perfect and they can be affected by ego or what ever you want to call it.
I am saying really go and look seek search and you will find the truth.
By the way Glenn, God bless you ! even though you curse me I bless you. Thank you for the false accusations. It is nice to be persecuted for talking about God's REAL TRUE WORD!
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

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The bible is not irrelevant, it is the doctrine of Christ that babes in Christ should be TRAINED with...

2 Timothy 3:16
"and for TRAINING in righteousness".

Hebrews 6:1
"doctrine of Christ and [then] go on to maturity".

The Israelites only had the heavenly Father to worship, but now we have God in ENTIRETY/completeness if we recognize the bible as the introductory doctrine for devotion...

2 John 1:9
"does not abide in the doctrine of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD, he who abides in the doctrine has BOTH the Father and the Son".

Paul was evangelizing idol worshipping cultures that had many prudish traditions that they wouldn't shed (Paul also grew up with those attitudes).
---more_excellent_way on 10/19/09

Glenn do you realize you just called Deborah an annointed woman of God a jezebel?
What is wrong with you?
A woman not speak at all?! talk about twisting scripture.
I said that man fit in words that were erroded away by time but you have twisted God's word entirely calling that which is good, bad!
And we know for a fact that the RCC established the first Bibles. We also know that they have changed the word many times. These are true facts, not speculation.
By the way, The reason some women don't like you Glenn is because of the way you speak to them.
Leon at least deserves my respect because he has earned it. He does not speak foolishly.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

1Timothy 2:11-12 (8-15).
:8 Men = males / aner G435 This is another way of saying "authoritatively" ministering. :11-12 are clear (silence with all subjection / silence), but there are some people who would like to maliciously remove the "nor" oude G3761 and change the verses to 'teach with authority'. But, teaching is always authoritative. Others say 'teach while usurping authority', or to preach without permission. Tell them Acts 4:19 & 5:29 instruct Christians to disobey orders contrary to the Lords will. :12 "But I" shows that he is in agreement with the Lord. :13-14 means these rules precede the fall and applies to you today, Genesis 3:16 (4:7). :15 Women do this and Titus 2:3-5.
---Glenn on 10/19/09

While I am not obligated to respond to you *1, and it is proper to recognize that you are insensitive to the Lords direction (Acts 20:30), perhaps you may still repent. Verses to consider, *2.
p.s. wife, son / daughter in law, three grand daughters, son in law / daughter, one grand son, chihuahuas, cats, a double yellow headed parrot, and various small birds.
*1 1Corinthians 11:16 and 14:36-38, 40 / Matthew 18:17, Romans 16:17-18, 1Corinthians 5:5-13, 2Corinthians 2:6-9, 7:8-12, 1Timothy 6:3-4.
*2 Job 2:10, Proverbs 14:1, 18:22, Zephaniah 3:2, Matthew 23:13, 15, 24, Luke 11:52, 1Corinthians 3:10, 2Corinthians 2:17, 4:2, 11:3 (Galatians 6:7), 2Timothy 3:7, 4:3-4, Hebrew 5:13-14, James 3:1-2, 2Peter 2:17-22.
---Glenn on 10/19/09

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1Corinthians 14:(33) 34-35 (36-38).
Is yours a church of the saints. Women speaking in the Churches, "silence", "not permitted", "under obedience" (Genesis 2:18, 3:16). ..."shame" G149 aischron: dishonorable, filthy, indecorous, shameful, venal. :37 Do you "acknowledge that the things that I (Paul) write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." :38 Or, discipline a man who disagrees with this teaching. Women were not to take on those things that pertained to men include doctrine, preaching, prophesy, psalms, revelation, teaching, tongues and interpretation, which is to "usurp authority over the man".
---Glenn on 10/19/09

1Corinthians 11:3-10, 13, 15-16.
:3 God, Christ, Man, Woman. Head covering: Male (aner G435) who submits to a man, rather than God. A rebellious women is said to be uncovered, especially she who publically makes prayer or prophesies, which dishonors God and men. Then, in Greek society, the only women that went without a veil were prostitutes, a few wealthy rebellious Jezebels, temple priestesses, and in some cities a rare group of women who would strip to the waist, roam the streets, and hit people with clubs. 11:15 short hair equals wanting to be, or acting like, a man. :16 .."we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." Is yours' Gods' church, or the synagogue of Satan.
---Glenn on 10/19/09

Miche: Thanks for explaining. It seems you're not sure where God begins & man ends in the Bible. So, though it is written, "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God", you think Paul writings were altered by "man", in conflict with God's will & purposes, & God let it go???

Please help my understanding, but it sounds like you've gotten a subtle, G3-type word, from the enemy of your soul (mind) causing you to doubt the God-given authorship of the current Bible in its "entirety".

The bottomline: "ALL SCRIPTURE" is...or it isn't! You must choose which side of the fence you really need to be on. There's no middle ground in this issue dear lady. :)
---Leon on 10/19/09

Miche, on 10/17/09 you wrote that people should read the original letters of Paul as if you have read them.

Now you say portions of the original letters have been eaten away. Don't you thing this is being misleading and deceptive?
---Rob on 10/19/09

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By the way Leon, I didn't imply that our translations are inaccurate.
I am saying that man filled in the gaps where parts of Pauls letters were eaten away. I am saying that that old paper has holes in it! And man back in the day took advantage of that and added what THEY THOUGHT would go their. The same way they put in the Bible what books they thought should go and left out the ones they thought shouldn't.
That is fact, not fiction.
Just like in some parts, Paul gives his advice and says "I not the Lord". Paul definately interjects his opinion on certain matters and he says tha sometimes it is his opinion NOT God's.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

Leon, The pages of Paul's letters are very old and have passages eaten away because of time. We have parts that we have to speculate whats said.
The passage men keep using to deny women any authority is a false passage that was fit in.
Think about it,look at other passages in the Bible that completely contradict this particular one(tim.), there are only 2 offices that a woman can't serve in according to the Bible. Thats Deacon and Elder.
As far as deacon goes, Paul called Phoebe a Deaconess. So there again we have issue with how people see Pheobe and other women important to Paul's ministry.
I think that the titles are the same but the duties are different based on gender.
If you ask me, the only true Pastor/Sheppard is Christ.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

"...Check the original letters Paul wrote and you will find things missing [?} that man has added in [?]..." Miche, 10/18

Where can I find & read Paul's "original" letters? Have you read the originals? If so, just what is missing & what men added what to the original letters -- I suppose you mean things absent from & added to the Bibles we read?

After reading the many gobbledygook posts here, if you believe what some say, I can see how & why you're confused, & straddling the fence regarding women pastors. What's interesting, you imply the many Bible translations of our day are inaccurate, but you support the spurious (way out of biblical context) opinions of an erroneous blogger.
---Leon on 10/18/09

...I don't totally agree with a woman being a pastor..." Miche, 10/17

That sounds like you agree at least in part Miche. Please explain.
---Leon on 10/18/09

Check the original letters Paul wrote and you will find things missing that man has added in. Thats what Im saying.
Also, look at more excellent way's post and you will see why Im on the fence about women pastors.
As for the authority thing many already know my stand point on it. So, I feel no need to repeat what I have stated in the past.
I see losts of angry people on here that should be happy Christ has saved them and that they should be looking in the mirror not quoting law that may not even exist in the original letter that Paul wrote to Timothy.
---miche3754 on 10/18/09

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More Excellent Way, in your statement "they are in contempt of what Paul told ancient cultures" is not found anywhere in scripture.

This leads me to believe you concider the Bible to be irrevelant because you consider it to be ancient.
---Rob on 10/18/09

Paul did not pretend to be giving God's instructions.

This was not teaching ... he was just stating the fact of his own rules for his time, place & circumstances.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/18/09

...PAUL doesnt suffer a woman to teach. He didn't say God didn't. And don't say Paul never gave his opinion because he does that a lot in all his letters.

Apostles were GIVEN task of BINDING Word of God (in other words - what Paul WROTE is BOUND BY GOD) Isaiah 8:13-17 1Thes 2:13 Matt. 24:35

today "christians" quote scripture when they FEEL it FITS their agenda IGNORE and DISCREDIT scriptures they FEEL don't FIT-IN to traditions apart from God Mark 7:6-9 ...simply choosing not to believe ALL of scripture is TRUTH Luke 11:28

women who pastor disobey God they are FALSE MINISTERS Ezek 13:17

per scripture TRUTH IS women are forbidden to be in positions of leadership 1Cor 14:33-35 1Tim 2:11-13
---Rhonda on 10/18/09

...I don't totally agree with a woman being a pastor..." Miche, 10/17

That sounds like you agree at least in part Miche. Please explain.
---Leon on 10/18/09

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As long as they choose to be spiritually alive inside Jesus's body as a spirit creation (new creation) hidden and protected from the ancient sin laws, they are not "in contempt" of (or contrary to) God's will (Godly spirits have no gender)....

"neither male nor female".

They ARE in contempt of what Paul told ancient cultures (so what!!) that insisted on not believing otherwise (female pastors would simply not be tolerated by ancient cultures).

If we are spiritually INside Jesus's body, the sin laws and rules (worship rules, etc.) have been abolished...

"abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15).
---more_excellent_way on 10/18/09

The only spiritual 'authority' (exousia) any man/women/child has over another man/woman/child is the authority that man/women/child concedes.
For all 'power' (exousia) has been given unto Jesus, both in heaven and earth.
---joseph on 10/17/09

No rob, I don't take what my pastr says over what God says.
That verse clearly says that PAUL doesnt suffer a woman to teach. He didn't say God didn't. And don't say Paul never gave his opinion because he does that a lot in all his letters.
That verse says for a woman not to usurp authority. It doesn't say a woman can't be given authority to teach, etc.
Do you truly believe women are to always be silent?
God certainly allows women in certain roles. I don't totally agree with a woman being a pastor.
Have you ever looked at the original of the letters to Timothy? You might be surprised at what you find or should I say, don't find. Try going to the original and not copies. Seek the true word of God and you will find God's wisdom.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

Miche, it sounds like you give presedence of what your Pastor has to say over what is written in GOD'S WORD.

This sounds like the characteristics of those who are mentioned in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.
---Rob on 10/17/09

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I completely understand that Leon.
But Glenn keeps calling me a "false prophet"
when I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a prophet at all.
No, I am not to keen on a woman being a pastor. I am not keen on a woman leading a family. The Word says a man is the head of the family as Christ is the head of the Church. Each of us have a "bodily function" in the Body of Christ.
Men that have the view of women like Glenn does are not following scripture. His belittling of women all over this blog is very un-Christ like. Christ never treated women or said to women the things that he has said in this particular respect and Glenn owes me an apology for bearing false witness against me.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

Miche: This blog isn't about the validity of women being evangelist, deaconess, missionaries... It's specifically about being the spiritual leader (PASTOR/SHEPHERD) over church congregations (men, women & children -- families).

It's okay if your pastor gives you permission to "speak" in church service, e.g., to give a testimony, etc., according to what the Lord has put on your heart to say. But, it is the pastor who is charged with the overall responsibility for rightly dividing & delivering the word of God, & keeping spiritual order in his congregation during & after worship services (week to week).
---Leon on 10/17/09

By the way Glenn, how many times do I have to tell you that I am not a prophet.
You do realize that to bare false witness is a sin right? Why do you insist on calling me something I am not?
There is no sin in me understanding and talking about God's word. There is no sin in me teaching it since I was given permission by my pastor. What is really sad is that you call me names because of your opinion and not based upon God's word.
I can certainly see why you aren't married. Your thinking women should be seen and not heard is not biblical at all.
You should also really repent for baring false witness against me.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

Guys, my pastor is quite fine with them. . When I teach it is by HIS(my pastor's) permission.
Why does it bother you that women know just as much about God's word as you do.
If you met me in person, you would not "feel" the way you do about me on these blogs.
The scripture says for a woman not to usurp authority. Usurp means to take without permission or in rebellion. It doesn't say anything about a woman being given it?
I know for certain that I just ask for God to bless me with HIS understanding. I didn't know that GOD would give me the ability to teach. Thank God my Pastor recognized it.
By the way, I don't believe in women being pastors either.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

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"...I see what is written in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 happening..." Rob, 10/14

2 Tim. 3:6 speaks of "creeps" who push their personal agendas (egalitarian feminism, etc.) in place of the Bible. I was in a church where the wife was pastor & the husband senior pastor (sp). I searched & couldn't find Bible authorization for women pastors, & was unable to reason with the "pastors". So, I had no choice but to turn away from (let them alone: Matt. 15:14) their ministry.

Like King Ahab, the sp wouldn't stand up to his wife's error & she ruled church activities by manipulation, intimidation & domination. Sadly, people (bloggers, etc.) sitting under this type ministry are, i.e., 2 Tim. 3:7.
---Leon on 10/17/09

To whom it may concern:
At least as it regards the subjects of men, women, and women in ministry, Miche3754 is teaching error, and should be thought of as a false prophet, Matthew 7:15-20. She has been corrected several times, and by different people. Often, she does not read, or does not understand, the blogs addressed to her. She keeps making statements, and asking questions, that have been answered already. She is insensitive to the Lords direction. See, Can A Woman Be A Bishop, Can Woman Be A Pastor 07/18/06, 07/10/07, Can Women Be Leaders, Many Women Pastors Today, Must Women Cover Themselves, Offended By Women Pastors, Should A Woman Be President.
Miche3754: Is your Pastor pleased with your blog entries?
---Glenn on 10/17/09

Miche, I am a person who accepts scripture in the context which is written. What does the Passages of scripture say in 1 Timothy Chapters 2 and 3?

Please what the passages of scripture which you say are different.
---Rob on 10/16/09

Rob, That is what you believe it says.
I have looked at many other scriptures along with that one and have a different understanding of it.
What you understand is what you understand.
Maybe God just hasn't revealed it to you. I don't know but I see different than you on this issues.
It would be a great suggestion for you to check the original texts as they were found. You will find something very exraordinary or should I say, not find.
I have had this discussion before and my guess is the reason why men always bring it back up is to cause strife. Otherwise why ask men when you can ask God?
---miche3754 on 10/16/09

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Miche, you are twisting scripture. The context is a woman is not to teach or or to have authority over a man. Read it again, as it is written.

That is exactly what women who call themselves Pastors are doing.
---Rob on 10/15/09

I am not twisting anything just applying ALL scripture that says a woman can't speak.

Are you aware that Paul teaches different in other books of the Bible but here he says different? Ever wondered why?

By the way, A woman can teach a man. How else do you think an unsaved husband is sanctified by a saved wife? certainly by her teaching him what God's word says and living it right in front of him.
Besides that, you can speak what you believe all you want. But you don't have to push it on those who don't believe that verse in the same context that you do.
---miche3754 on 10/15/09

Miche, why do you insist in twisting what is written in scripture.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 teaches a woman is to LEARN in quetness and full submission, and is not permitted to teach or have authority over a man.

It does not mean a woman cannot speak about concerns she may have.
---Rob on 10/15/09

Leslie, I have some questions to ask you.

Is what is written in 1 Timothy Chapters 2 and 3 the truth or a lie?

Do you accept what is written as it is or do you reject it?

If you reject it, is it because you do what is written in Romans 1:25, and fall in the catagory of those who are described in 2 Timothy 4:3-4?
---Rob on 10/15/09

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The more that times passes, the more I see what is written in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 happening in places that call themselves Churches and People of God.
---Rob on 10/14/09

To be truly obedient to what 1 Timothy Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 says, women must not say anything at all. Nothing, nada. Do you truly believe that women are to be seen and not heard? Whom should we obey? man's customs or God's word?

I guess ladies we should just sit down and be quiet and not post anything and not learn what God's word says for ourselves. Stop singing God's praises, snd giving testimony and telling the truth of God's word since the men's flesh is so bothered by us knowing God on a personal level.
---miche3754 on 10/15/09

Jesus told us to spread the good news, if their message in your heart is of God, why is there a question?
---marca on 10/14/09

We live in the free world where man or woman has the liberty to pass on the gospel.
Only in socialized christianity does one recieve doctrine of men requiring women to be present in body but absent in speech.
We are free to give the gospel to anyone who has an ear to hear.
---earl on 10/14/09

God chooses whom he chooses to represent him and it can be of either sex, depending on time and circumstances. If you can't accept that, tough cookies, it's YHWH's choice not ours.

I have seen and worked with pastors of both sexes that were excellent and pastors of both sexes that should get out of the ministry because the were non-effective and never truly called to be pastors.

There was an old black minister in Mississippi had it right, he would ask the young civil rights workers coming down from from up North "Did you went or was you sent?"
---The_Friendly_Blogger on 10/14/09

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The more that times passes, the more I see what is written in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 happening in places that call themselves Churches and People of God.
---Rob on 10/14/09

Women who are pastors, according to the Bible, NOT man's opinion, are in line with the Bible. NO Where in the Bible does it say that women can not be pastors or in leadership in ministry. Those who say such things are NOT in line with the Bible, and are working for the devil trying to bring confusion and keep women from their destinies. If you look at the scriptures from how they are to be viewed, these ones speak of the culture in the times they lived in. Jesus, and Paul both had women serving in ministry ALONG side of them in these positions - Explain that, if women are not suppost to.
---Leslie on 10/14/09

Idk. Ask God.
---amand6348 on 10/14/09

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