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Can Salvation Be Lost?

Can salvation be lost?

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Morgan, Mark E. said that we can't ever stop sinning. Thats what I called a lie. Because God's word says if we walk in Spirit we wont sin. Its Christ Spirit in Christians that keep us from sinning. If we sow to the flesh, we will sin.
Since we still have to reside in this fleshly body, we do slip up sometimes, and sin but if we are mature in Christ and not babes, then we shouldnt be out there sinning all the time. We should be seen as a light and people should know from looking at us that we are God's.
Thats why I say get saved, stay saved NOT once saved always saved.
When you get saved, stay on board with Christ, he will never steer you wrong. But we have some who just fall of the wagon sometimes and its our job to restore them gently.
---miche3754 on 10/20/09

Miche, when I responded to your post, your new post had not come out yet. So I apologize for asking what I did. You answered my question with your last post. What you wrote is very true and I believe you truely believe it. And I have no doubt of your salvation, the question was to show what faith in the Sacrifice of Christ means to all of us. One thing I believe you made an err on was on Mark E. You mentioned,
"Mark E said that we can't NOT sin.
That is a lie."

You might have misunderstood him. Again, I apologize and should have waited longer before answering.
---MarkV. on 10/20/09

Markv: No, my name is Ralph.

I would like to conclude with the one and only same thought form Titus 2:

WHY are we saved:

11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world,

13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
---Ralph on 10/20/09

Mark E said that we can't NOT sin.
That is a lie.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

I expected more from you than to say I said something that I never said.

I pointed out to Anne that she quoted 1 John 2:4 INCORRECTLY. The verse says:

1 John 2:4 "He who says I know Him and does not KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS is a liar and the truth is not in him".

We are to be obedient, period. Walk in the SPIRIT, not walk in RIGHTEOUSNESS. Big difference in this.

You and Anne are the ones saying we cannot sin. Because if we sin, we lose our salvation.

Answer me this. When is my name written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Phil 4:3 says it is written while I am still alive. How can that be if I can lose my salvation?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/09

***As we have heard, the Parable of the Sower indicates that some seed will grow but will be choked out and not produce fruit. These ones who are choked out are not BORN AGAIN. As we have also heard, only those who continue on till the end will be SAVED.***

You can't continue on and bear FRUIT unless you are BORN of the Spirit FIRST. Anything else is self/works. Salvation is not a process, but an event!

The reason the others did not bear fruit is because the Holy Spirit who is the fruit bearer was not IN THEM. According to Galatians 5, we are told, the fuit of the Spirit is: Love, Joy, Peace etc, AND those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh...

The FLESH cannot bear fruit!
---kathr4453 on 10/20/09

2Corinthians 6:1
"We then, as workers together with Him, beseech you also
that ye receive not the grace of God in vain."

The only way it could be in vain is if they lose it.

1Th 5:19"Quench not the Spirit."
If The Holy Spirit can not be quenched...why would the Bible say do not quench it? Since it is an implied "you" should not quench it...obviously it is "the person they are speaking to" doing the quenching. US

Take responsibility and stop sticking your head in the sand.
Acts15:29...if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
---SuzieH on 10/19/09

Romans 2:7: "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"
Luke 8:15: "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."
John 3:21: "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
Matthew 24:12: "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
---Nana on 10/19/09

Donna~ The Bible teaches us not to be deceived...if a person finds he is living in sin as the prodigal son later started living in sin by living amongst prostitutes and in love of this world then there is simply no more father-son relationship.

When you say that there is still a father-son relationship, then you are making people who may be truly saved believe that if they wander back into sinful living that they have nothing to worry about. This is not what the Bible says...the Bible tells us to *work out* our salvation with fear and trembling before the Judgment Day!

We need to teach instead that if someone wanders back into sinful living to Repent and Return sincerely. If we don't, we are still on the road to hell.
---Anne on 10/19/09

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

No ~ We can't lose what God has Foreknowledge of us redeeming !

God's Foreknowledge is of everything in Creation even before Speaking it into Existence and BTFOTW He Chose to Predestinate whom He Foreknows to be CONFORMED to the Image of His Son after His Finished Works on the Cross, b/c of 1Cor.15:36-38.

God's Plan to Sacrifice the Precious Blood of Christ on the Cross was Foreordained, but only manifested in these last time so we may be Reborn & Quickened through being washed clean of our sins by it in Christ where we're Free from the Law & sin is no longer imputed & we may receive the 'Indwelling Seal' of God's Living Promise, The Holy Ghost, and redeem Salvation to enter Heaven.
---Shawn.M.T on 10/19/09

For the 1000th time, Miche does not believe in her own works, she believes in the works of CHRIST living and working in her life. Without the works of Christ in our life, then we simply are not His child, no matter how much a person says he 'trusts in the finished works of Christ.'

If all a person had to do was to believe in the finished works of Christ, then all would be saved. Even the devil believes in the finished works of Christ and knows that Jesus paid for the sins of mankind. The difference is that Satan is not submitting to God, but doing his own rebellious will. Someone like Miche submits to GOD, and does HIS will and HIS works.
---Anne on 10/19/09

Miche, I come out with my response to you by reading what you say. If you believe in the finish works of Christ on the Cross for your salvation, then there is no way you can believe otherwise. Period. You either have faith in His works or not. But you believe in your own works, though you don't know how much works, or how little your works should be, or how many sins does it take for you to lose salvation? We are to judge what someone says with the word of God.
Are you saved? if you answer yes, then I believe you are. I have always believed you were but you continue defending works to be saved over and over. If you say you have to do a lot of works to be save, then you are not. Period.
---MarkV. on 10/19/09

Sister Miche, your answer hit my heart with the exception of one small part. MarkE did not mention once, and I went back and checked, that we cannot sin anymore, you said it was a lie, though he never mentioned what you said he did. The rest was great, I loved it. Speak the truth sister and God will continue to bless you.
---Morgan on 10/19/09

If I must maintain my salvation I will go to hell because I'm incapable of maintaining my salvation- mima
No one said you must maintain your salvation.
God said for us to grow in Grace that he has given us. This means develope a relationship with him! This means let God increase our knowledge of him.
Mark E said that we can't NOT sin.
That is a lie.
If we walk in the Spirit then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. CHrist says so. Now we know that we don't always walk in the Spirit because we still have to deal with the flesh. This is WHY Christ is the advocate just in case we stumble and sin.
And no Im not saying that I am without sin, Im saying its possible not to sin IF we walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

-- Ralph :

God didn't have Foreknowledge of Adam disallowing anything while he was sinless, which makes my comment speculation and I REPENT of it, as well as REBUKE all speculation.Shawn.M.T on 10/8/09

Shawn, did God then have foreknowledge of Adam disallowing anything AFTER he was sinful. Do we speak with forked tongue?Ralph on 10/19/09

Brother, Why do you put before me this Stumbling Block of speculation when it's clear from my above post that I REBUKE ALL SPECULATION & Repent from ever entertaining it again ??

It appears that you Ralph speak with a forked tongue, trying to tingle the ears of other & entice them back into entertaining your lies of speculation, to mislead others from the Truth. REPENT Ralph !!
---ShawnM.T. on 10/19/09

Kathr/Ralph, I know you are the same person. That is very obvious to me, because as always when you speak, you bring three or four subjects across at one time, just as you did here, and try to connect them together. You do that all the time. In one you gave three different subjects or topics and in the end you said, this is the meaning of eating Christ and drinking His blood. Which in fact had no connection whatsoever with the subject or topic spoken of at the time.
Why not just say, I don't agree and here is why? Give your passage this way I can see if what you are saying is correct or not. And you don't have to hide either under other names. You cannot hide from God, just like me.
---MarkV. on 10/19/09

Anne- If you are going to accuse me of "blasphemy", I could accuse you of bearing false witness. (Though, why we have to resort to personal insults is beyond me)

The prodigal son wasn't "saved", then "unsaved", then "re-saved". The parable said little about his sin, but MUCH about the father-son relationship. AT NO time did the father threaten to DISINHERIT his son. Do you believe those who are saved are "sons" and "daughters" of the Lord? Paul said: Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

A GOOD father disciplines, he doesn't disown, his children.
---Donna66 on 10/19/09

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Jesus Christ obtained salvation for Christians 2000 years ago on the cross we had nothing to do with it than or now as a matter of fact he was rejected than until he cried "It is finished !!" we can't get it keep it or do enough good works to buy it. we can only turn to him realize our need and ask for it.
---jerry on 10/19/09

----The Bible says those who were saved were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. So whoever He chose, was redeemed because of His sovereign choice. ---MarkV. on 10/19/09

Now I understand why you went a ranting on another blog site. God's Eternal Covenant of the Lamb slain, was His promise of FORGIVNESS.

Titus 1:1-3 nowhere state Limited Atonement for only certain people.

Paul concludes in Titus 2:11 11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 1:1 the Faith of the Elect are the faithful of God's Elect who preach the Good News to ALL for ALL! Verse 3.
---Ralph on 10/19/09

Those who believe they can lose their salvation are into maintaining their own salvation by their works.
As an assembly of God person told me yesterday, yes I believe I must maintain my own salvation.
By insisting we must maintain our own salvation we deny the power and efficiency of God and his sacrifice on our behalf!!!!
Many refuse to treat the word of God as a certainty.
If I must maintain my salvation I will go to hell because I'm incapable of maintaining my salvation. And I submit the rest of the world is in that same condition of being unable to maintain their own salvation.
---mima on 10/19/09

Many will have a moment of saving faith, but will later return to loving this world more than God, or will return to their sin.
---Anne on 10/19/09

This is the place where the two camps divide.

This moment of saving faith is not SALVATION or NEW BIRTH. As we have heard, the Parable of the Sower indicates that some seed will grow but will be choked out and not produce fruit. These ones who are choked out are not BORN AGAIN. As we have also heard, only those who continue on till the end will be SAVED.

Anne has listed the evidence of the new birth, we must remember it is a birth of the Spirit within us. Once born again, can the Spirit be "unborn" in us? May it never be.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/19/09

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Yet the Bible teaches in 1 John that if we 'say' we are saved, yet not walking in righteousness, we are liars and the truth is not in us.
---Anne on 10/19/09

But herein lies the truth, we CANNOT walk in righteousness or keep His commandments, just as we could not keep the Law.

God says to us "be holy as I am holy" but He knows it is impossible to us to do. We are NOT as faithful as God or faithful as Jesus. We cannot be holy or righteous on our own. That is why he MADE us righteous. Not of our own doing, not for anything we can or did do, no, just because He wanted to.

What He wants from us is obedience. Keep His commandments, and if you stumble, confess, and HE is faithful to forgive and cleanse.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/19/09

Salvation is complicated by doctrines and denominations, but in the Bible it's simple. Mark 16:15-16 And he (Jesus) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
---rickey on 10/19/09

duane and Jeremy~ I liked your said things well.

God is forever faithful. Jesus has paid the penalty for the sins of mankind. Now it is up to the individuals on their end of the loving relationship.

We all must thankfully remember that if any of us have:
1. Taken our hand off the plow.
2. Been like the prodigal, and fallen back into filthy living.
3. Gone back to the idols of loving this world more than God etc.
That there is still HOPE! God DOES allow the sincerely repentant/humbled to return to His loving arms and know complete rest in Him once again. What a wonderful God He is!

If you have strayed from God, repent and return, for we never know, today we might die. He will welcome you home.
---Anne on 10/19/09

Salvation is all about love. God loved us and sacrificed. If we accept his gift of salvation, fall in love with him, we are "saved". His love, his gift can't be lost - only refused. We can accept his love and gift, then later fall out of love with him ... that is us refusing his gift of salvation, us turning our lives away and ending our side of our relationship with him.
---Jeremy on 10/19/09

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Thank you anne and yes, it is good that you and I speak for each other.
And like I have said before, if you are asking this question, then there is something in you that doubts your salvation.
We are suposed to be sure and work out our salvation. We are to make our calling and election sure! not ask what if.
I know what Christ has done for me. My entire life is a testimony that Christ can fix anyone.
It is alright that Markv bears false witness against me. Because it won't be me who judges him in the end, it will be God.
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

If we do not see the works of JESUS/HIS SPIRIT in our lives then we had better question is we are truly born-again/regenerated/saved.

The works of JESUS working in our lives are evidenced by such things as:

1. Walking in the Spirit and not the flesh.
2. Abiding in Jesus by following Him obediently/faithfully and doing His will..
3. Having a clear clean conscience.
4. Faithfully living by the Holy Word of God.
5. Forsaking all sin/darkness and walking in the Light.
6. Growing in God's purity, righteousness, and holiness.
7. Witnessing the good news to all mankind.
8. Withstanding persecution.
9. Seeing the fruits of the Spirit in our lives.
10. Love for others.
---Anne on 10/19/09

Markv, What are you talking about?
Why are you falsely accusing me?
Get out of your ego and into Christ.

And how do you come up with the false witness that I don't believe in the finished work of the Cross?!
Man, you have really big issues and you owe me an apology for your false accussations of me.
Never have I ever said the things you are accusing me of!
By the way,
the Bible does say we can lose our salvation if we do not follow Christ.
I am convinced that my salvation is secure. AND I speak to those who think they can claim Christ and still do what ever they want NOT to the ones that are in obedience to Christ!
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

Miche believes that the EVIDENCE of saving faith is the works of the Spirit/works of Jesus Christ living in her life moment by moment. (I hope you don't mind me speaking for you.)

Many, many, many, many people say they are 'Christians'.... they say they are born-again, regenerated, saved, etc. (in fact 1/3 of the world's population claims to be 'Christian' yet we are living in the most dark time in history.) Yet the Bible teaches in 1 John that if we 'say' we are saved, yet not walking in righteousness, we are liars and the truth is not in us.

Saving faith is not merely a trust, it is LIVING...LIVING in the true Christian's life. The Bible teaches: Not the hearers, but the DOERS are the ones who are right with God.
---Anne on 10/19/09

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Francis~ You are one who is wise and looking at the fullness of scripture. Yes, salvation is not merely a 'moment', but is a future event too. Salvation is graciously given to those who continue in the Spirit. Many will have a moment of saving faith, but will later return to loving this world more than God, or will return to their sin.

This is why the Bible teaches that we must test ourselves to make sure we are in the faith. And this is why it teaches we must *work out* our salvation with fear/ trembling.

We are living in the day where the Bible teaches "they'll heap up teachers to please their itching ears instead of heeding sound doctrine." That day is now. We must read the entire Bible, not just parts.
---Anne on 10/19/09

Can salvation be lost?? Only if you reject it. We are saved by grace through faith.
Who do YOU wish to serve? Its YOUR faith in HIM that saves. Its YOUR choice now. Your sin has already been dealt with at the Cross.(Grace)
---duane on 10/19/09

It doesn't mean man was chosen individually BTFOTW.
It means God's plan was established. Stop claiming you were chosen before CHrist was sacrificed!
John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world
Jesus is talking about the ones who beheld his glory here, not us. We have not seen His glory yet we still believe. He was praying that the Apostles stay strong and spread the GOOD WORD!
Markv accuses me but who is the one speaking it?
See these scripture and find the truth!
Matthew 13:35, 25:34
Luke 11:506.
Ephesians 1:4
Hebrews 4:3, 9:26
1 Peter 1:20
---miche3754 on 10/19/09

Blasphemy! The prodigal son, was NOT saved, when he was living amongst prostitutes and living in the filthy ways of rampant sin. Do not teach such wicked lies, and lead precious souls astray.

The prodigal son DIED spiritually when he returned to a life of wickedness. HOWEVER, he was MADE ALIVE AGAIN, when he RETURNED to the Father in true REPENTANCE and humbled himself. God is ever merciful, and will bring back the sincerely repentant with open arms...what good good news!

This story is clear evidence we can lose salvation, as well as countless other scripture. But do NOT be discouraged, but be AWARE and arm yourself with God's armor each day! God guides His faithful children, who continue in faithfulness to their Lord.
---Anne on 10/19/09

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"losing salvation by bad works"-MarkV. on 10/18/09 the When did sin enter the world blog.

Does this mean you think it is okay for a saved person to do bad works since you believe they can't lose their salvation?

And I have seen you falsely accuse many people Markv and assume wrong things about them but you never apologize.
And you have not always answered with respect to people. Just because they don't follow calvinist views or disagree with you about salvation you falsely accuse people of NOT believing in the finished work of the Cross. Brother, do you realize this is not Christ like?
---g on 10/19/09

Miche, if you don't believe that Christ saved you, then you don't believe by saving faith in Christ. You see, His works on the cross is sufficient to save you, but you don't believe that. You don't believe God will get you in to His Kingdom, you believe you yourself have to do a certain amount of works to get you in. So you don't have faith in the work of the Holy Spirit in your life, if you did, you would have faith that what God started in you, He will finish. The reason some of you don't have faith is because you don't believe faith comes from God. So the faith you have, you have created yourself. That faith will get you no-where. You say I lie, but it is you who does not understand true Faith.
---MarkV. on 10/19/09

There is no passage in the Bible that states that someone can loose his salvation. What many of you do is speculate a passage is saying. The Bible says those who were saved were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. So whoever He chose, was redeemed because of His sovereign choice. In John 6 Jesus said this, "all that the Father gives Me, shall come to Me and I have lost none of them, but I will raise him up at the last day. " The security of the believer then is bound up in the Character of eternal life, which is eternal salvation, and it is bound up in the decree of God. The reason many come up with the doctrine that you can loose salvation is because they never had a strong enough salvation to begin with.
---MarkV. on 10/19/09

You all make out salvation to be a thing, some thing that can be lost or found or kept.

Salvation is not a thing, it is a person. The person is Jesus. He is our salvation, the fulfillment of all Scripture.

Exod 15:2 "The LORD is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation, This is my God, and I will praise Him, My father's God, and I will extol Him."

He is our High Priest who stands as our defense attorney before the Father. He has done away with all sin by His offering of blood, and has for all time, justified those who accept His free gift. This is the ministry of reconciliation.

Heb 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/19/09

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I hesitate to get in the middle of this discussion lest I become misjudged by one side or the other. I feel like I am stepping in a cow puck.

However, as I have mentioned before, both sides of this issue have valid points.

I believe Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all my sin, past, present, and future. Consequently, I am in the camp that one cannot lose their salvation. However, saying that, there will be evidence (works), love for Christ and love for one another, if one is saved. No works, no salvation.

BTW, I read here much about works what works are we talking about?

If one does not have love for Christ or developing love for one another, I would question their salvation, knowing Christ knows all hearts.
---Rod4Him on 10/18/09

Salvation is a one time event. And when you have been "born again" there is no going back. When you have been adopted into a family, including God's family, you are a son or daughter in that family for the rest of your life. The prodigal son didn't cease to be a "son" after he squandered his inheritance. He wasn't a "good" son, but he was a son....and his father never saw him as anything else.
The "lost" sheep didn't fail to belong to the Shepherd, just because it wandered off.

We don't get by with sin.
The sinners who are CONDEMNED to Hell are those those who never knew the Lord.
---Donna66 on 10/19/09

Amen Miche! You hit it right exact perfect when you said we must walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh if we hope to REAP eternal life. We must all remember that eternal life is not automatic, but reaped if our lives shine faithful to the Father to the end!

Gal. 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for what a man sows, that he will also reap. He who sows to the flesh will reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will reap everlasting life! Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season we'll reap IF we do NOT lose heart."

God is a perfect righteous judge!
---Anne on 10/18/09

Saved from what?

Here are two texts of scripture which makes salvation a future event:

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

We today have FAITH ( evidence of things not seen) that we will be saved. BUT should we choose to turn away from christ, it is as a dg returning to it's vomit. If we turn back, we will not be saved.
---Francis on 10/18/09

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Thank you Anne!

And Markv, how many times have you seperated the benefits of the Kingdom from the Benefactor- Christ?
I believe Ralph said it best on the "Adam" blog. Kath too.
We are nothing without Christ. If we didn't have Christ, we would not be adopted by God through Christ to receive everlasting life- The plan God foreknew before the foundations of the World.
No matter how hard you try, we are told by Christ to believe and follow. We must do both.
We would have nothing but death and the Grave if Christ had not come. And we are to follow in his footsteps. We must let the Spirit rule and not walk in the flesh.
Then we would not have to even worry about asking this strife causing question.
---miche3754 on 10/18/09

Markv, When have I NOT shown faith in Christ? Please stop your false accusations AGAIN!
I completely understand the works of Christ on the Cross. You on the other hand don't believe at all of the finished works because you believe you were chosen specifically before CHrist even came to be sacrificed to be saved. How many times have you blatanly gone around Christ and you can bet people on here have certanliy seen it.
You think that its just faith with no action on your part that saves you when Christ plainly says that THOSE WHO ENDURE TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. not those who sit on their but and do nothing will be saved.
Are you enduring in Christ or are you in constant sin because you think Christ has got you covered?
---miche3754 on 10/18/09

When did Miche say she doubted the sufficiency of Christ's work? She clings and trusts in Him with all her might, and knows very well Jesus' blood covers the sins of the truly repentant.

But I think Miche is one of the few here who reads her ENTIRE Bible and isn't making up fairy tales to please people's 'itching ears' with false comforts.

She knows verses that say:

1. Will YOU keep your hand to the plow?
2. Will YOU stay on the straight and narrow?
3. Will YOU overcome and not get blotted out of the Book of Life?
4. Will YOU grow on good soil, or get neglectful and die in throny or rocky soil.

So MANY other scripture too.

God IS forever faithful, the question at Judgment Day is, 'Were YOU?'
---Anne on 10/18/09

The Bible tells us Satan is like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Does Satan need to devour the unsaved?? No! He has already devoured them. He is seeking to devour the saved. He is seeking to deceive them in the same way that he deceived Eve.

In this day when temptation is rampant, and when there are almost no Holy Spirit filled pastors out there, the devil has a very easy task.

People wake up, we are living in the world's most spiritually dark hour. Help the fallen to return to the Lord. We fight a war every day for the safety of our souls. Walk/abide in the Lord, and you will know complete rest.
---Anne on 10/18/09

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Gary, this argument about what James said is one that has been used by the RCC for centuries in order to appeal to the works salvation they teach. Every time you ask they send you to James. What is amazing is, that none Catholics, as well as Mormons, Jehovah Witnessess, Islam all believe the same thing. Works to enter heaven.
We, or anyone cannot make anyone believe completely in the works of Christ on the Cross. No one can. Only God can give them that faith towards the Cross. The Cross is not sufficient to save them. And no one can make them have faith competely in Christ. They give a little and want to keep a little. And they have all kinds of reason why not to believe in the Cross, they mention no sin, as if they were sinless themselves.
---MarkV. on 10/18/09

Miche, you say it seems the OSAS bunch bring the question up when you know nothing about what the Moderator believes in.
It is your own lack of faith in the sufficiency of Christ works on the Cross. It is your lack of completely surrendering to Christ and believing and trusting in His works not yours. But you lack that faith and then judge wrongly those who do, and suggest they want to sin when it is you who lacks faith. How can you trust in your own works over the Works of Christ, if you say you are a Christian?
Scripture is everywhere clear, the one thing a person must do to be saved is exercise true saving faith in Christ. Faith is the instrument that God uses to bring individuals into a saving relationship with Himself.
---MarkV. on 10/18/09

possibly,iam not sure.I believe if it is ,it probably wasn,t there to begin with.
---tom2 on 10/18/09

Don't you think your last post was a little broad and closed minded?
Not all who believe you can lose salvation are like this.
They base what they believe upon scripture.
They believe as long as they are in Christ AND doing God's will they'll stay saved- THOSE WHO ENDURE TO THE END WILL BE SAVED.
They believe if one continues to sow to the flesh(sin) instead of the spirit(submit to God's will), they'll fall from Grace(stated by Paul, by the way)-lose their salvation.
Losing one's salvation is a biblical principal.
We have "false Christians" today because they are told half of the Word of God, not all. They are told they can't lose their salvation but they aren't told they must do God's will not their own.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

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"Can salvation be lost?" No.

As Jesus said " All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me 'I should lose nothing'. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all, and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand." Salvation is of God, not man.
---Josef on 10/17/09

Mima-- Yes, thank you for your clarity. We did NOTHING to "earn" Salvation. We can do NOTHING to lose it. Jesus shed His blood for us on the cross for our sins and said "It is finished"...if we sin after our salvation, He doesn't have to go back and spill more blood. The Holy Spirit stays within us after we have become a new creature in Christ. HE is ALWAYS there to convict us of sin and direct us toward what is pleasing to God. "Working out our Salvation" is evidence of His presence.

In my opinion, being born again should cause us to reach out toward others and toward God, not within, in anxious self-examination or elsewhere to look for the sins of others.
---Donna66 on 10/17/09

mima - You are absolutely correct.

We didn't get saved by doing good works. We are saved BY GRACE, through FAITH. Period.

IF it were possible to lose salvation, then the only way to get it back would be BY GRACE, through FAITH. But once we have salvation, we can't lose it.

I will say again - those who think they can lose their salvation probably haven't yet been saved. The same thing applies to those who feel they must follow OT laws - once you receive the Holy Spirit, laws become meaningless.

It's too bad that so many miss the whole point of Calvary. Many of you are living a life meant for 2,000 years ago. What a shame. You are missing what Jesus did for us.
---Gary on 10/17/09

Thank you anne! I have missed you too!
I am just so concerned as to why people are asking this question.
ANd it always seems to be the OSAS bunch that does.
Why are they worrying about it if Jesus keeps us?
I prefer to think of how I can serve God the best way he wants me to.
Didn't Jesus say for us to take no thought for tomorrow because tomorrow will take care of itself?
And he also said that those who put their hand to the plow should not look back. If they do, they are not fit for the kingdom.
Those who ask this question are worrying when they shouldn't. Especially if they are in obedience to God.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

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Miche~ Nicely said my wise friend. I know I have not spoken to almost anyone on the computer in weeks and weeks, but I will soon write to you again. Hope your move went well. Love ya sis.
---Anne on 10/17/09

Mima~ Let us look at the book on 1 John. There we read in 1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. (vs 8) He who sins in of the devil."

Mima, just as the parable of the sower teaches, we can BEGIN to grow in the Lord, but later we can begin to grow lukewarm and start to neglect our great salvation (Hebrews 2:3). As James teaches, we can give way to tempation which leads to dire sin and eventually spiritual death, do not be deceived. We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and God is faithful to lead the overcomers safely home.
But those who return to wickedness will be judged with the hypocrites on Judgment Day.
---Anne on 10/17/09

Mima, bad works is being disobedient to God.
You can't do bad works and be a Christian.
One should not call themselves Christian if they are always disobedient to God.
Show faith without good works and God will show you that it is dead faith.
Show faith with good works and God will say well done my faithful servant.
You can't have one without the other.
Christians who do good works are showing their faith in God!
To do bad works is to have your name blotted out of the book of life.
So, please stop asking questions that instigate strife in Christ's body. The ord says that those who stir up strife are not of God, so be careful brother.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

Concerning losing one's salvation I would like to ask,"If you cannot do good works to be saved, then how can you do bad works to lose it?" (be unsaved)
---mima on 10/17/09

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If we walk in the Spirit, we will not sin and fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Obey God and we don't have to worry about asking this question.
The reason why people ask is because they aren't sure of their salvation probably because they have been disobedient to God continuously.
If you are, repent and stop making a continuos sacrifice of Christ. Give the issue(s) to God and let him cleanse it from you making you white as snow.
Paul says "Should we sin that grace abound? NO!" Don't make a mockery of Christ's sacrifice.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09

We must rememeber that a price has been paid for us and that we have been purchased by God, just as a slave is purchased.

1 Pet 1:18 "knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ"

A slave has no rights, no choice but to be a slave. We are under the same obligation once we are saved. We have been bought by the precious blood of Christ and how can we be "unbought" by something of less value?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/09

We quote a verse but do not really comprehend its meaning.

John 8:36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed"

If we have accepted Jesus as Savior, then we have been set free. But what have we been set free from?

Rom 6:6-7 "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin, for he who has died is freed from sin."

So we have been free from sin and the penalty of sin, which is death.

Therefore, if Jesus has set us free indeed, how can we be enslaved again by sin?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/09

Mima~ The Bible teaches (not me), to work out our salvations with fear and trembling.
Why must we work out our salvation with fear and trembling?...Because of what James lovingly said to the beloved brethren...the beloved brethren are those who are saved/regenerated/born-again.

James tells them in James 1:14-16 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full grown brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren."

You see, sin is a deadly destructive force and can bring forth spiritual death after salvation. God will be forever faithful, but will WE continue to keep OUR hand to the plow?
---Anne on 10/17/09

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Mark E, I believe you hit it just right. You went to the Character of God. It is He who Justifies. When God saves someone, He never makes mistakes. Not once. If it was possible for one of His children to be lost, then He is not God.
While Gary has the reason why some seem to be lost, it is because they were never really committed to Christ. Having the knowledge of God does not make anyone save. So many have it and it does nothing to their hearts.
Anne is also correct because all who are born of the Spirit obey. Obedience is not an uption. No one is perfect so no one can obey perfectly, while in the flesh we will sin, but our mind and heart is for God. God makes us Stand, Jesus declares He will sustain us.
---MarkV. on 10/17/09

If the "WORKING OUT OF YOUR SALVATION" is continuous or daily then it becomes WORKS of the kind that is opposite and offensive to the grace of God.

When you work out a math problem you not continue to work out that that math problem day after day(daily).
---mima on 10/17/09

Being a Christian does not mean we never again yield to temptation, never sin. We weren't saved because we were righteous. We don't become "un-saved" again by unrighteousness.
Only one sin, really, can condemn a person: rejection of Jesus Christ.

Jhn 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
If you came to Christ but now question your salvation, ask "Do I love darkness more than light"? When I have sinned, do I seek more darkness or turn back toward the light? Do I reject Jesus?
---Donna66 on 10/16/09

(Romans 8 have been taken out of content. Check Henrys comentary,) If salvation can not be lost Jesus have not say on His parable "depart from me,i know you not". and luke.So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:2-4
And Paul wrote.Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
Galatians 6:1-3
We all sin and come short to the Glory... but Jesus redem us we repent, if you have sin repent. restore and guard your self with passion.
---Nona on 10/16/09

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We must compare all scripture with all other scriptures in the Bible.

When we look at Romans 8:38-39, this verse does not say that 'sin' cannot separate us from the love of God. We read in Isaiah where sin does separate us from God so that He will not be able to hear us.

We CAN have assurance of salvation....but we must WORK OUT our salvation with fear and trembling. We must examine ourselves daily to make sure we are in the faith. Then you can have complete wonderful assurance and perfect rest in the Lord.
---Anne on 10/16/09

James 1:12: "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
Enduring temptation is not yielding to it, and the blessing is for whom endures, it is not for whom yields. Can man endure temptation and not sin? Of course he can, why else Christ would say "Go and sin no more"? Why else would James and Paul say speak to one accord as, v 27- "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
Pick the wrong thing, reap the wrong result, even lose what you tought you had!
---Nana on 10/16/09

One Scripture that emphatically says NO is:

Rom 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalites nor powers, nor things present or things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".

Verse 33 of the same chapter says "Who shall bring a charge against Gods elect? It is God who justifies."

If He justifies us, how then can anything separate us, especially our own actions?
---Mark_Eaton on 10/16/09

If we have the freedom to fill our soul with the spirit of God then we equally have the freedom to empty it.
The human races are all children of God.We make the decision to enter the kingdom,never enter the kingdom or enter then exit as we exercise our free will.
Jesus spoke of those who have entered the kingdom and later turned back.Judas turned back.Satan turned back.Lucifer turned back.Belzebub turned back.
No one can say we cannot exercise free will and turn back when the decision is ultimately ours.We have the free will to "finish the race "or to drop out early.
---earl on 10/16/09

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mima has it right. Once saved, always saved.

The real problem is, there are many who THINK they have been saved when in reality they have not. They have accepted Christ in words only, but not in their heart. Once you are REALLY saved, you are saved.
---Gary on 10/16/09

Yes, if you sin and die in your sins.
---Betty on 10/16/09

If you believe you can lose your salvation you deny this scripture.
James 1:24," Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," again the question becomes, do you believe God?
Almighty God is not juggling souls. And those that are his are safely in his hands.
---mima on 10/16/09

Hebrews 10:26-31 says: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the Knowledge of the Truth, there remaineth no more Sacrifice for sins, But, a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and Fiery Indignation, which shall devour (also) the adversaries. Of how much sorer Punishment suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath TRODDEN UNDER FOOT the Son of GOD, and hath counted the Blood of the Covenant, wherewith HE WAS SANCTIFIED, an "unholy thing", and hath done despite unto the SPIRIT of Grace? For we know Him that hath said, "Vengeance belongeth unto Me, I will recompense, saith the LORD!" And again, the LORD shall JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. It is a FEARFUL THING to fall into the Hands of the Living GOD!"
---Gordon on 10/16/09

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God's Salvation Plan which Is according to Mark 16 v 16 - Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt 28 v's 19-20. Yes, Salvation can be lost. If your trying to serve The Lord with 1 foot in God's heaven & the other foot in the god of this world (satan) with his worldly pleasures, he will sway you more to his side & you'l be lost. This so called teaching once saved always saved is False & it Is man-made teachings which came from here 2nd Cor. 11 v's 14-15.
Choose you today whom you will serve, Almighty God of creation, or the god of this world (satan). You canNot serve 2 masters. God is strict.
---Lawrence on 10/16/09

If it were possible for a Christian live above sin why does the Christian have a advocate(lawer) before the father. I refer to first John 2-1," My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" if Christians live above sin God has given us an advocate we do not need.
Failure to believe what God has recorded in his word is what causes many to believe that their salvation can be lost!!!
---mima on 10/16/09

To answer this question let us look at the Bible. Romans 8:1 says,"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Question, do you believe the Bible? Romans 8:1 says, no condemnation can come on those who are in Christ Jesus(have salvation). Certainly if we lose our salvation we have come under condemnation. Think about it!!!
---mima on 10/16/09

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