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Obedience To Your Religion

Is it true that obedience is the test of a valid religion?

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 ---Pierr5358 on 10/17/09
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The tithing meant for back then and for today, was not of money but first fruits, like grain, and agricultural and other things.

If our Father meant for us to tithe money, the scripture would say to tithe with silver and gold which was money back then used for buying!

You do not have to give your church money, you could give them things they need instead and is preferable. Money has been corrupting our leaders. Will we ever follow the Torah which means teaching instructions from our Father? Leviticus 27:30-33, Deuteronomy 12:5-18 2, Deuteronomy 14:22-27, Deuteronomy 26:12-14
---Paul9594 on 11/4/09


Rob* Ruben, I think you need to take the time to read Acts 17:11 again. It says they, the Bereans, EXAMINDED THE SCRIPTURES EVERYDAY TO SEE IF WHAT PAUL HAD SAID WAS TRUE.

They took Paul interpretation of scripture to be true, remember the Thessalonians did not believe in Paul interpretation. It says they examinded scripture daily NOT ONLY!

Rob* The problem in the world today is people will lsten to and believe what they hear, but they seldom if ever will examine scripture to see if what they heard is true.

The problem with that is who determines whose interpretation is correct?
---Ruben on 11/4/09


Ruben, I think you need to take the time to read Acts 17:11 again. It says they, the Bereans, EXAMINDED THE SCRIPTURES EVERYDAY TO SEE IF WHAT PAUL HAD SAID WAS TRUE.

The problem in the world today is people will lsten to and believe what they hear, but they seldom if ever will examine scripture to see if what they heard is true.
---Rob on 11/3/09


Jerry, it is so very good to know there is someone who knows about the example the Bereans have set.
---Rob on 11/2/09

And the example of the Bereans is that they needed authoritative figure to explain to them what scripture means. Paul was telling them that the "Messiah" spoken of in the OT was Jesus Christ, so the Bereans did not believe in "Bible Alone" but instead in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Maybe your Church should change the name of the Bereans Church to the Thessalonica because they reject Paul teaching of the Messiah in oral testimony and scripture, they srictly went by "Bible Alone"!
---Ruben on 11/3/09


Darlene_1 - I agree with you. The same goes for paying tithes. When you take the tithe to the church, you are NOT paying it to God. You are giving it to man. Giving to the church is NOT giving to God.

Jesus made it perfectly clear that when you give to the poor, you are giving to him. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Word of God that tells us when we give to the church we are giving to God.

However, for SOME people, serving in the church might be serving God - if that is what God has called them to do.
---Gary on 11/3/09




Great Point Darlene!

I've been preaching this for years. Sadly nearly all chruches today teach their traditions over Christ and scripture. From the Lutherans to the latest Rock and roll church. All have traditions that supersede the word of God. I always say... do your own research with the Bible, The Holy Spirit and Prayer. Like the Berean Jews did with Paul. Your Pastor is NOT the final authority!

Too many people follow him (Pastor/Traditions) over HIM.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/3/09


Obedience to what or whom ? Christians must obey God,not man,nor religion. Religion is not God. Often parts of religion is not even of the Bible. Church Denomination is not God. Some think if they are serving the Church they are serving God,therefore they put everything to do with Church before even their families,that isn't right. As a much younger Christian I was guilty of exactly that. One day I woke up,I'd even say God woke me up and I relized I wasn't doing enough of the most important job for God that I have,that of wife,mother,daughter,niece, in other words my family. That is the first ministry God gave me and I was doing a rotten job of it thinking all the time I was serving God. Priorities changed to God,Family,job,church.
---Darlene_1 on 11/3/09


I also searched for the church most close to the Bible that is why I belong to a non denominational pentecostal church.I believe the scripture that says.Yea,I am God and I change not.
---shirley on 11/3/09


The place where I Worship is named The Berean Bible Church. We do take our name from Acts 17:11. We do go through the Bible book by book, chapter by chapter, and verse by verse.
---Rob on 11/3/09


Thanks guys.

I learned years ago to go to the Bible to find true doctrine, and then look for a denomination that teaches that very doctrine. It is not a very popular path to take, but I would rather have man mad at me than God.
---jerry6593 on 11/3/09




Jerry, it is so very good to know there is someone who knows about the example the Bereans have set.
---Rob on 11/2/09


Well put Jerry.

For many 'Christian' bloggers almost anything but Scripture is their authority.
Some are more respectful of what some addled critic says than what God says. Others reinterpret Scripture via changing beliefs of so-called scientists. I have more respect for Atheist than I do for them, as he is more honest about his motives.

People struggle to comprehend God isn't man, doesn't think like man (thankfully), doesn't have man's flaws. They fail to comprehend God's power, that Jesus possesses all authority in heaven and earth

"..let God be true, but every man a liar..." (Rom. 3: 4). When conflict arises between God's word and man's beliefs God is true and man a liar.
---Warwick on 11/2/09


>The only test of a religion's validity is its adherence to scripture.

Amen!
---djconklin on 11/2/09


The only test of a religion's validity is its adherence to scripture.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Act 17:11 These [Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
---jerry6593 on 11/2/09


"anyone can be obedient and devoted to whatever his/her religion is."
---patie3447 on 10/27/09

Good point!

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
---jerry6593 on 10/30/09


no it is not the test of a valid religion.

anyone can be obedient and devoted to whatever his/her religion is.

so being true to one's religion does not validate that religion if that is what you mean.

Thank you
---patie3447 on 10/27/09


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Jan, I am glad you agreed and you are right in that because He first loved us, we love Him, and because of that love we have for Him and understand what He went through for our salvation, we want so much to please Him. Not because we have to, to keep salvation but because that is who we are now in Christ. We are a new creation, where we were slaves to sin and didn't know it, we are now slaves to Christ without the chains we once had, we were made free. Our hearts are slaves to Him, even though we miss the mark many times, we know when we are wrong, and ask Him to forgive us, again, not because we have to but because we want to. A person who is truely saved understands this things.
---MarkV. on 10/27/09


Focus first on the sound words, of your Savior, even memorize, then APPLY scripture, the Law and the Prophets, New Testament with HIS MINDSET revealed through His teachings and actions!
Matthew 3:34
For he whom :God hath sent speaketh the words of God.. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his :hand. 36 Who believeth unto the Son hath eternal life, but who DISOBEYS the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of :God abideth on him.

Fulfill the Law with faith inChrist...with the Holy Spirit giving His manners and mindset, and not like the Pharisees, for one, they added subtracted because of their traditions!

Do Christian, Messianic, Catholic faith traditions make void the commandments of your Savior?
---Paul9594 on 10/27/09


MarkV: I like your interpretation of Colossian 2:14 a lot. However it still remains true that because Jesus has paid the punshment for my sin, I will love and honor Him by doing His will not my will to show Him my apreciaton for His gift wich is eternal life.
---Jan on 10/27/09


Jan, I believe you and others are wrong also. Maybe not in the same sense as Gary but still wrong. Colosians 2:14 "Wiped out the handwriting" The Gr. Word translated "hand writing" referred to the handwritten certificate of debt by which a debtor acknowledged his indebtedness. All people (Rom. 3:23) owe God an unpayable debt for violating His law (Gal. 3:10, James 2:10, Matt. 18:23-27), and are thus under sentence of death (Rom. 6:23). Paul graphically compares God's forgiveness of believers sins to wiping ink off a parchment. Through Christ sacrifical death on the Cross, God has totally erased our certificate of indebtedness and made our forgiveness complete. (Nailed it to the Cross).
---MarkV. on 10/27/09


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If there is any real religion then it would be holiness.. that is what YAH is and that is what he want us to be. everything else is man made and is full of error and twisting of scripture. if everyone would just be holy as the word teaches then there would be no confusion in the so-called church today...
---Antonerio on 10/27/09


Gary, You write that man incorrectly seperates the law into a moral and ceremonial part. False! I gave you the references from the WORD which is inspired.
But you are welcome to your opinion!
---Jan on 10/26/09


Jan - You continue your denomination falsehood.

Man has incorrectly separated the law between moral and ceremonial. The Word treats the law and a whole.

What you wrote looks like the SDA material I have read. There is NOTHING in God's Word to indicate that Colossians 2:14 is referring to only a part of all the law.

Paul - Hebrews 7:12, 18 cancelled the ENTIRE law of the Levitical priesthood, which essentially is Numbers 18.
---Gary on 10/26/09


Today, are God's people with faith in the power of the Holy Spirit, Christ, walking to be like the living example of Christ? He has the manners and mindset of the Torah/law!!

Or are God's people a living example of a Torah less, lawless false Christ?

Do Christians ask themselves in situations of their life, what would Christ do?

Since your savior was the Living Torah, would He not respond to the situations of life according to the mindset and manners of Torah?

Dear friend do you try to deal with life situations, even as He did? Or has the law being done away with, because of bad teachers?

What is the impact to your life for being lawless? Please repent or else Matthew 7:21
---Paul9594 on 10/26/09


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Word of God: constrast between moral law and ceremonial ordinances
ML
called the 'royal law' James 2,8
CL
called "the law...contained in the ordinances" Eph 2,15
ML
spoken by God Deut 13
CL
spoken by Moses Lev 1:1-3
ML
written by God on stone tablets EX. 24:31:18
CL
written by Moses in a book 2 Chron.35:12
ML
placed in the ark Ex.40:20/1 King 8:9
CL
placed in the side of the ark Deut. 31:24-26
ML stands for ever PS 111:7 & 8
CL nailed to the cross Col 2:14
ML not destroyd by Christ Mat 517
CL abolished by Christ Eph 215
ML Gives knowlege of sin Rom. 3:20/7:7
CL instituted in conseequnce of sin Lev 3:7
---Jan on 10/26/09


Hebrews 7:12

The Priest hood with their blood sacrifices and what they illustrated was changed to be fulfilled by God's High Priest and Blood of the Lamb, Christ. This is the new covenant, but only in this sense of meaning.

This is why God being all powerful, has not reinstated the blood sacrifices and the temple and a man priesthood for two millenniums!!! Christ now fulfills this. No more of man's temporary imperfect priesthood!

Animals, man could never fulfill the role of a priesthood sinless blood atonement.
But the rest outside of the blood of atonement remains in effect for us to walk after to keep, with faith in Christ! Christ lips say we are to keep even the least of the commandments, Matthew 5:19!!
---Paul on 10/26/09


It is the CEREMONIAL LAW that was nailed to the cross ...Jan

That's denominational teaching only. The Word of God does not separate ceremonial law from moral law. Man has done that without any biblical support.

Just like man changes tithing from crops and animals, which are assets that come from God, to income earned by man.

Let man get his hands into it and it will always get messed up.
---Gary on 10/26/09


Mima: I would like to suggest that Col 2:14
shows how Christ's death affected the CEREMONIAL LAW. It is the CEREMONIAL LAW that was nailed to the cross, not SIN itself. Why was the CEREMONIAL law done away with? Because it had certain weaknesses and a certain unprofitability.It made nothing perfect.Man needed a bettter hope to to draw nigh to God. Heb. 7:18 & 19
But the MORAL LAW is perfect (Ps: 19,7) and stands fast for ever and ever (Ps:111:7 & 8)
---Jan on 10/26/09


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Gary I wish to second John's opinion of the way you handle God's word.
I have in my possession a little booklet entitled," Jesus released us from the Tithe" written by a missionary friend from England named Frank Perry. Needless to say this booklet has failed to catch on with the denominational(let's take a collection) churches.
---mima on 10/26/09


Regarding Colossians 2:14

The KJV uses the word sin over 1,000 times, but NOT in Colossians 2:14. The NIV uses the word sin over 1,400 times, but NOT in Colossians 2:14.

KJV uses written code.
NIV uses ordinances.
NLT uses record.
YLT uses ordinances.
ICB uses laws.

I have yet to find a version of the Holy Bible that uses the word sin in Colossians 2:14. When the KJV was written, the scholars chose written code. Written code is NOT sin. I go by the Word, not what some pastor or preacher says.
---Gary on 10/26/09


Gary, I want to commend you on your handling of the Word of God. I was reading some of the give-and-take you had with Leslie and others on tithing, and I'm impressed with your understanding and knowledge of the Bible. (Please don't let this go to your head, brother. :o) )
I'm truly amazed at how many Christians either cannot rightly divide the Word of truth or they just go by their Pastor's opinion without doing their own research and study (2 Tim 2:15). It's amazing.
---John on 10/26/09


---miche3754 in the following verses you address a problem of your own making. The separation you speak of is under The grace of Jesus Christ.
"You seperate yourself from God by your actions. God keeps his end BUT since man is fallable, we don't always keep ours.
It is important that when we fall we run to the mercy seat and get forgiveness otherwise you remain in the state of seperation."

Mima, I didn't create a problem. The problem already exists. Sin does seperate us from God. Even sin that is done AFTER you are saved.
---miche3754 on 10/26/09


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---Samuel I. want to thank you for your input. The church uses the new international version. And of course I'm very much tied to the King James version so this might allow for the differences in interpretation. Samuel again let me say thank you.
---mima on 10/26/09


Yesterday in church I was introduced to a new interpretation of Colossians 2:14 (Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross), the speaker interpreted the above too mean that it was our SINS that were nailed to the cross. I am consulting others about this interpretation and I would love to hear your views concerning this. mima

Yes I have heard of it spoken this way also. Some modern translation lend themselves to this interpretation.
---Samuel on 10/26/09


Yes the word ordinaces and commandments are sometimes used interchangably. John Wesley in a series of sermons and writings settled that those laws that deal with moral points are all still in effect. He also said as did many churches and Church leaders for ages that the Ten Commandments are in a group of their own since they were the basis of all the other laws.

One Rabbi even said that Love GOD love your neighbor then the Ten Commandments are the main points of the Torah you need. The rest is commentary.
---Samuel on 10/26/09


Amen Jan!

Isn't it strange how many Christians think that Jesus came to save them from the LAW rather than from their SINS (their transgressions of the law).
---jerry6593 on 10/26/09


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May I repectfully suggest you find out the difference between ORDINANCES and COMMANDMENTS. They are not the same! ---Jan on 10/25/09

Here's one example to show that commandments, ordinances, and laws are interchangeable in the Bible.

These all refer to the Levitical tithe:
Leviticus 27:34 These are the commandments...
Malachi 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances...
Hebrews 7:5 ...have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law...

So the Levitical tithe is referred to as a commandment, ordinance, and law.
---Gary on 10/25/09


Yesterday in church I was introduced to a new interpretation of Colossians 2:14 (Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross), the speaker interpreted the above too mean that it was our SINS that were nailed to the cross. I am consulting others about this interpretation and I would love to hear your views concerning this.
---mima on 10/26/09


Gary: May I repectfully suggest you find out the difference between ORDINANCES and COMMANDMENTS. They are not the same!
One more thought:
As Christans we may be free from the bondage of the law, but that freedom does not mean liberty to do what the law forbids. See Rom. 6:1,15 & 3:31
Freedom from law does not man that we have a licence to sin. Just the opposite! For the first time in our lives we who have become Christians are truly able to keep he law since we have been reborn by the Holy Spirit. Now we no longr face the law as dour legalists but as persons being in love and with David we can say "O how I love thy law" Ps 119:97
---Jan on 10/25/09


Amen Jan

there is obedience to God his Word and his Truth

then there is mans idea's about God via religion when blindly disobeying God to serve honor and obey religious idea's from religious systems

one cannot serve BOTH masters
---Rhonda on 10/25/09


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Amen Jan

there is obedience to God his Word and his Truth

then there is mans idea's about God via religion when blindly disobeying God to serve honor and obey religious idea's from religious systems

one cannot serve BOTH masters
---Rhonda on 10/25/09


Jan - And do YOU keep ALL His commandments - all 600 plus commandments, or do you pick and choose which ones you will obey?

I keep ALL the commandments that Jesus, Himself, gave to us - the commandment to LOVE.

Ephesians 2:15 (KJV)
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace,

And don't forget Colossians 2:14 (Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross), and Galatians 4:5 and Galatians 3:10.
---Gary on 10/24/09


Vain worship: When a person learns a point of truth in the Bible and refuses to obey it, he/she is guilty of fightng the Holy Spirit whose job it is to guide us into all truth.
This refusal hardens the conscience and eventually leads to the unpardonable sin. Acts:5:32 only those who obey are eligible to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
We are told many will be lost, even many who have worked miracles in Christ's name because:
they did not LOVE HIM enough to keep all His commadments
they considered it legalisme to believe that not obeying His commandments could keep them out of heaven.
The final conflict between TRUTH an ERROR will revolve around the basic issue of LOYALTY or DISLOYALTY, OBEDIENCE or DISOBEDIENCE.
Coose well!
---Jan on 10/24/09


In addition to all the Bible passages you should read some Hymns of the Church.

Trust and Obey
Rock of Ages

Can you add some more?
---Samuel on 10/21/09


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Properly interpreted from whose viewpoint?
---Steveng on 10/20/09

I've given you three good references already, in addition to my own interpretation.

How about another one:
Cambridge Annotated Study Bible
Since love is the fulfilling of the Law (see Rom 13:10, Gal 5:6, 14), and
those in Christ are no longer under it (Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24-25), the Law is meant only for those who do not know the love of Christ.
---Gary on 10/20/09


"If you love me keep my commandments."
The grand author of all truth, Jesus , makes it exceedingly clear, that the original requirement of God is unchanged. The condition of OBEDIENCE which would have kept man in Eden has become the condiion for his restauration to Eden.

Christ has established the standard of measurement: nothing less than a FAITH which worketh by LOVE will be accepted.
---Jan on 10/20/09


Gary: "Steveng - I've given you many biblical references but you ignore them. The ones you gave actually support MY position if properly interpreted."

Properly interpreted from whose viewpoint?
---Steveng on 10/20/09


"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27) Also in Christ's religion, we have "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)> so, we are all-loving in valid religion > "And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls, though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15) Following this example of our Apostle Paul is included in obeying > obeying the example God has given through Paul. And doing commandments the way *God* means them, how He fulfills them in the ruling of His peace in our hearts > Colossians 3:15.
---Bill_bila5659 on 10/20/09


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Yes Obdience is proof that you take your faith seriously.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---Samuel on 10/20/09


NO! True obedience comes from knowing the true God. And this comes from the new-birth. "You must be born-again". God says in the holy Bible, "if you love Me you will obey Me"....Abraham obeyed God and was to sacrifice his only son. But God said, "do not lay a hand upon the lad"> My goodness, I can almost hear God saying that.
---catherine on 10/20/09


Steveng - I've given you many biblical references but you ignore them. The ones you gave actually support MY position if properly interpreted.
---Gary on 10/19/09


Gary: "Let's look at 1 Timothy 1:8-11:

From The New Commentary:...

From Matthew Henry:...

From the Bible Knowledge Commentary:..."

Do you have any reference straight from the bible itself? Today's christians rely too much on men's opinions instead of using the bible as it's own reference. They use concordances, author's books, novels, and other christians reference books for their biblical knowledge. Just by reading many of these post on these blog tells you that there are just as many opinions and interpretations of the bible as there are stars in the sky. If Jesus himself were posting on these blogs everyone would think it was just another opinion that calls himself "Jesus."
---Steveng on 10/19/09


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I think for many Christians, the term "religion" doesn't mean much.
Christians have a relationship with Christ. They don't rely on trappings, customs and rituals of any "religion". Obeying a religion may be quite a different thing from obeying Christ.
---Donna66 on 10/19/09


True obedience Is the test to God's Valid Salvation Plan.
Religion pertains to many facets, such as Man-made relig-org's etc.
---Lawrence on 10/19/09


Steveng - Let's look at 1 Timothy 1:8-11:

From The New Commentary: the law is not made for a righteous man--not made for those whose sins are forgiven on the basis of Christs righteousness, and whose lives are filled with the Holy Spirit.

From Matthew Henry: But unless we are made righteous by faith in Christ, really repenting and forsaking sin, we are yet under the curse of the law

From the Bible Knowledge Commentary: The Law is designed to show people their sinfulness. Thus the Law is not for one who had already recognized his sin and turned to Christ. That person is no longer under the Law but should now walk in the Spirit (Gal. 5:13-26). The Law is intended for those who remain unconvinced of their sin.
---Gary on 10/18/09


Pure undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to yield oneself to the restrains of the Father's love, that one may avoid the stains of a system of things based, led and dictated to by sensual perceptions of the external.
As you are led and empowered, do good. Seek justice. Reprove the ruthless. Give guidence and structure to the orphan. Plead for the widow. Visit the sick and shut in. Clothed the naked. Feed the hungry. Shelter the homeless.
Religion, as a method of worship, must be in Spirit and in Truth. Worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus, putting no confidence in anything you deem to have been done in your own efforts, strength or force of will.
---Josef on 10/19/09


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Amen Jan

laws of God are Holy Just and Good and NOBODY would be capable of sinning if Gods laws were abolished ...foolish to believe laws were abolished when scripture details differences between those who obey and sin Rom 4:15, 5:13, 6:15, 7:1 ...no laws no savior

laws of man were blotted out by Christ ...Christ magnified Gods laws (10 Commandments)...laws of man were Hebrews 613 civil laws ceremonial civil ordinances (Col 2:14, Eph 2:15) impossible and harsh

God only has 10 Laws these are DIVINE and HOLY Rom 7:12

ordinances (613 Mosiac laws) BY MEN created to OBEY Gods 10 Laws

you will be judged by the laws (Gods 10 Commandments) you claim don't exist Romans 2:12
---Rhonda on 10/18/09


Gary: "The law's purpose was to draw us to Jesus. Once that happens, and we become born-again, the law has no further purpose."

The purpose of the law is to show we are sinners. The law reveals our sins.
Read the entire Chapter 7 of Romans:
Romans 7:7
Romans 7:12
Romans 7:25
Romans 13:8
Galatians 5:14
Galatians 5:18(but who today is led by the Spirit when they don't know the Spirit?)
Galatians 6:2
1 Timothy 1:8-11
James 2:8
James 2:10
1 John 3:4

But remember:
Titus 3:9
---Steveng on 10/18/09


Sorry Jan, you are wrong.

Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

Galatians 4:5 (KJV)
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 4:5 tells us that Jesus redeemed those who were under the law. Colossians 2:14 tells us how Jesus redeemed those under the law by nailing the laws to the cross.

Galatians 3:10 tells us those who reject what Jesus did on the cross and continue to put themselves under the law are cursed by the law.
---Gary on 10/18/09


Gary: What Paul is saying is that because Jeus has paid the price of "ugly"sin for us and he gives us eternal life intead of death,we who are filled with the Holy Spirit, no longer want to sin, because we love him. THE LAW IS STILL ALIVE, for there can be no sin withou a law to breaak, BUT WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER ITS CONDEMNATION because we choose to obey it and love him for his gift of salvation!
(That was a lot harder to say than to think)
---Jan on 10/18/09


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Jan - When Romans 7:4 says you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, the Law has no more jurisdiction over the believer.

The law's purpose was to draw us to Jesus. Once that happens, and we become born-again, the law has no further purpose.

Under the law if you steal or kill, you are breaking the law. Being born-again, and having the Holy Spirit within, you won't want to steal or kill. Which is better? Not wanting to, or being under a law that you can break. That's why the law didn't work. People break laws. It's much better to be convicted within than be convicted under a law.
---Gary on 10/17/09


obidience to the God of Abraham,thru his son jesus is the only true religion for a gentile.The word religion is used to describe many types of worship,but there is only one truth.
---tom2 on 10/17/09


on christianity,fruits are the true sign of obidience to God.people have worshipped just about anything you can think of down thru time,and many have been obidient,that doesn,t make their worship valid.only christianity has a leader once dead raised ,and is alive today,thats a fairly valid reason,but not the only one,the best one is that being God he chose to die for me,a sinner born nearly 1900 years later.WOW my God ia an awesome God.
---tom2 on 10/18/09


Donna & others

Yes Donna, those systems could be regarded as religions. But valid?

Looking at the original question, it seems to me that there are many religions or systems which require total obedience.

But they are not valid religions.

TRhe fact that Christianity requires obedience, and is valid does not mean that other "religions" reuiring obedience are also valid
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/18/09


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The question is comparable to the one The Lord included in scripture..."What is truth?", John 18:38.

"Religion" is the biased/chosen 'version' of the truth that has always been used by the 'moneychangers' to keep us subordinate TO THEM instead of God. The moneychangers have always convinced us that we all have no choice but to be rebellious (hopelessly rebellious and NEED to be "commanded"), but The Lord brought us freedom that we may live by the "law of LIBERTY" (James 1:25 and 2:12) so that our...

"goodness might not be by compulsion..." (Philemon verse 14).

Don't have a "biblical" devotion or a "religion" devotion, have a LOVE devotion.
---more_excellent_way on 10/17/09


Gary: "The New Testament commandments are NOT the ten commandments. ."

It's very obvious that either you have not read the NT or that you overlooked the teaching of the Ten Commandments throughout the NT. I suggest reading the NT very slowly and through the eyes of a child (not using your analytical adult mind). Even the Sabbath is taught in the NT.

Gary: "The Old Testament Laws are treated as a unit... You can't separate them biblically"

There are two commandments Jesus spoke of "To love God" which covers the first four commandments of the Ten Commandments and "to love your neighbor" which covers the last seven. Then you can neatly pack any one of the 613 Mosaic laws under that.
---Steveng on 10/17/09


Alan of UK--- Interesting insight.The regimes you mention actually COULD be considered "religions"....secular religions...but their gods are not supernatural, like "theistic" religions. Their form is religious, though. They generate fervor, loyalty, worship of a central figure or figures AND obedience. True adherents would be known by obedience. Many world religions function similarly.

Christianity (as many here know it) is less a religion than a relationship. Outwardly, it can be expressed many ways.
But Christ is our Master... not "Christianity". If we fail to obey Him, we are accountable to Him...If we injure others we are accountable to them too. The standards are higher. God alone, the judge.
---Donna66 on 10/17/09


To Gary: Yes, I believe that the law that we are to obey, out of love for our salvation, is the 10 commandment law.
Follow me:
1. definition of sin = John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin, transgresses also THE LAW...of THE LAW" Now we need to quantify /identify the word "law" in the text. What LAW is beng referred to? Paul answers in Rom 7:7 quoting directly from the 10 commandments and HE DECLARES UNEQUIVOCALLY that sin is the transrgession of THE LAW.
---Jan on 10/17/09


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Biblically it is impossinle to be a true child of God while refusing to obey his commndements.
---Jan on 10/17/09

So, Jan, I guess you obey all 600 plus commandments? OR do you pick and choose which ones you will obey. And IF you think it means the Ten Commandments, show me in the Word where it states that.

The New Testament commandments are NOT the ten commandments. The Old Testament Laws are treated as a unit in the Bible. You can't separate them biblically.
---Gary on 10/17/09


The question is profound.

Some people are righteous by nature and need no repebtance. They don't need to be commanded and forced to be peaceful and just (Godly).

Luke 15:7
"there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance".

There are others who will be like the prodigal son and learn the error of their way, trust and return to the loving father while being repentant.

Then there are also those whose nature is to be rebellious. They must be forced to be peaceful and just by following a set of rules called "religion" (they MUST "obey").

So, yes, "obedience" is what makes a "religion".
---more_excellent_way on 10/17/09


We must now emphasize the LOVE ELEMENT which must be part of all acceptable obedience, for forcing the forms of obedience without a personal love experience with Christ is just as fatal as omtting all obdeience.Now it seems that because Jesus thoroughly condemned the program of salvation by works, many have assumed wrongly that he considered obedience unimportant.
Actually, what Christ is looking for is a bautiful balance in Christ's doctrine of FAITH and WORKS: He taught us that TO OBEY IN ORDER TO BE SAVED is LEGALISM, but that TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE, BECAUSE HE HAS SAVED US, is the test of a true religious experienc.
---Jan on 10/17/09


To know him, means to obey him!
Biblically it is impossinle to be a true child of God while refusing to obey his commndements. Willfull disobedience cuts off the relationship, drives away the Holy Spirit and effectvely removes us from his GRACE!
---Jan on 10/17/09


Amen!!
I wish so many people would see this.ot go on doing what we ple
Once we et saved we cannot continue to do what we please. We are to do what pleases God no matter how much our flesh protests it.
---miche3754 on 10/17/09


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Salvation and having an intimate, personal relationship with GOD IS THROUGH CHRIST ALONE.

Religion is of SATAN, along with scriptures warning us about being or becoming religous.
---Rob on 10/17/09


I don't undewrstand the question.

Communism demands obedience, and people obey it.

Jim Jones required obedience, and nearly 1000 died either by poisoning themselves, or being poisoned by their fellow followers of Jones.

Khmer Rouge demanded obedience and Pol Pot slaughtered millions.

I don't think those were valid religions
---Alan8566_of_uk on 10/17/09


If we are not doing the will of God, all religious activity is quite useless.
The Scriptures exalt OBEDIENCE. Whatever time, talent or money we spend cannot meet with God's approval, if we do not keep his commandments. It does not matte if we have prophesized or cast out devils in Jesus' name. He will not know us! The way to really come to know him is by keeping his commandments. (1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:4)
To know him, means to obey him!
Biblically it is impossinle to be a true child of God while refusing to obey his commndements. Willfull disobedience cuts off the relationship, drives away the Holy Spirit and effectvely removes us from his GRACE!
---Jan on 10/17/09


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