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Origins Of The Bible

Where does the Bible came from?

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 ---dumba on 10/19/09
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Trav:"Again, if scripture witnesses it's own statements with other scriptures,prophets. It stands on its own.


It think that shows only that those who assembled the final version tried their best to remove contradictions by any means necessary...
---atheist on 10/25/09
My thoughts and theory exactly.
Me/you placed too much credit on intelligence of man/translators.
I found that in changing scripture on purpose translators fulfilled a purpose of GODs. That got my attention. I had/have to have certain proofs. Got them in most reversed places.
Larger denom Churches today most mixed up,politically correct...to be incorrect in history.
In scripture.
Sometimes it is what is not said that makes witness.
---Trav on 10/26/09


Warwiok, you have done great. just look at names of those who have opposed you here on this topic. A few claim they love God, but behind His back they speak against His Word. Those kind are back stabbers. Imposters pretending to be children of God when in reality they are children of wrath. The Bible calls them wolves in sheeps clothing, which indicates the others are really wolves already.
They are part of the lost, but the others who are lost, don't challenge God or the Bible, they just don't know God.
No one can reason with the wolves, they are out to tear you to pieces if they could. Be strong in the Lord, and don't allow them to make you sin by getting to you. Blessings brother.
---MarkV. on 10/26/09


//Genesis30:37-39 clearly defines a reproducable experiment regarding the science of animal husbandry and a literal 'truth' about breeding sheep based on the word of 'god'.

Negative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the record simply records what Jacob in believing would increase the reproduction of the sheep. There was NO command of God given to him in doing what he did.
---lee on 10/25/09


Atheist if I am stuck then you have been stuck many times. You assume I am stuck because I haven't given an answer. I haven't given an answer because you do not answer my questions. You duck an weave. Therefore if you say I fail to answer because I have no answer, you are more 'stucker' that I, as you have failed to answer many of my questions.

As Cliff says- you can't have it both ways.

Let us do an experiment? Is the Bible only historical truth if I can answer every question? And by the same measure is evolutionism only historical fact if you can answer every question? If so you are in trouble!

---Warwick on 10/26/09


What we describe as 'communion' is also covered in Matthew and Mark-both report Jesus said to do this. It was obviously commanded by Jesus. Paul had nothing to do with it. Who said the gospels have to report the exact same aspects of the same event? Also who said the gospels had to report each one of the different events?

Do not reliable witnesses (even those without the Holy Spirit's guidance) report things others do not mention, and vice versa?

There you are Cliff plugging away with your Sceptic nonsense.
---Warwick on 10/26/09




To the bible "purists"
"Communion" is practiced in all branches of Christendom, Who instituted this "ritual?" Right away everyone will say Jesus > answ.NO Paul!
Only Paul and Luke mention "do this in remembrance ..."
Neither one were at the "last supper"!
The other bible writers,John,Matthew, Peter, James, Jude never mentioned this "important command" They were there, they heard Christ. Again Who started it??
Does scripture verify scripture??
---1st_cliff on 10/25/09


Jerry .... "Uhhh, I dont think that Paul was talking about his own letters when he made that statement, but rather the Old Testament"

Well, I would tend to agree with you, but most here would not, for they rely on Paul's writings for many of their beliefs ... for example, male supremacy.

Cliff certainly would agree with you, because he does not place absolute reliance on Paul's teaching, and I beleive he thinks that Paul distorted the message Jesus.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/25/09


Warwick,

You sing a one note song: "The bible is the literal word of god." And as long as you are arguing about whether six days is longer than six days or 24 hours is longer than 24 hours you haven't got much to argue about, especially since those you argue with believe in 'god' anyway. So its just about how literal or metaphorical or interpretable the bible is anyway.

Genesis30:37-39 clearly defines a reproducable experiment regarding the science of animal husbandry and a literal 'truth' about breeding sheep based on the word of 'god'. One that doesn't work. You are stuck. You got no answer.

Maybe you can make a phone call to a scientist friend, or Jerry, the scientist can help you out...
---atheist on 10/25/09


Trav:"Again, if scripture witnesses it's own statements with other scriptures,prophets. It stands on its own. I try and only point...too these witnesses....like it was pointed out to me."

It think that shows only that those who assembled the final version tried their best to remove contradictions by any means necessary...
---atheist on 10/25/09


Atheist the record shows you have avoided most questions I have posed to you. Most of those you have deigned to answer were evasive half-answers. In fact you have expressed annoyance that I dare question you!

Answer my questions and I will happily answer your Genesis 30 question. Until then...
---Warwick on 10/25/09




God used men to write the Bible, and so the answer to 'from whom' is God.
Genesis 1, Psalm 33:6, Isaiah 40:8, John 1:1-5, 17:8, 14, Hebrews 1:1-2, 4:12-13, 1Peter 1:25, Revelations 19:11-16 (13).
---Glenn on 10/25/09


Trav -- I'm pretty sure I disagree with you on a lot of things (though I can't remember) But don't let "curious one" get under your skin. Obviously, he's only here to stir up people for his own amusement.
---Donna66 on 10/23/09

C one does not bother me. Truth bothers them...they have the issue to deal with.

Again, if scripture witnesses it's own statements with other scriptures,prophets. It stands on its own. I try and only point...too these witnesses....like it was pointed out to me.
---Trav on 10/25/09


Trav, I have read both passage in context and no where do I find a wall of any kind mentioned.
Not in Hebrews 8:8 or Jer. 31:31-37.
>That's the reason why they were separated and now will be married to Him. But we are talking about the elect only.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09

The wall is the separation between them...you noted separation also. Noted in Romans. They would not be mentioned in Heb 8:8 or Jer 31:31 as separate entity's if there had not been division.
Do you not think that if all the prophets prophesied only about these two groups and the two verses above are only about these two..that the context in the N.Covenant is....these two? Your out of context to think otherwise. This is the point.
---Trav on 10/25/09


Kathr .... Did you really claim as MarkV says you did, "that you had mercy on Christ so He should be glad you chose Him. That out of the goodness of your heart you gave Him a chance with your free will"?

He says the same thing about me.

I've asked him to tell me where I said it, but three times now he has refused to do so.

It's so sad that he has this compulsion to lie, isn't it?

Presumably his version of OSAS allows it though.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/25/09


I think that the question and the questioner say a lot:

Where does the Bible came [sic] from? - "dumba."

Alan: "And it was Paul who said that ALL SCRIPTURE (including his own contribution) is inspired by God. Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Uhhh, I dont think that Paul was talking about his own letters when he made that statement, but rather the Old Testament.
---jerry6593 on 10/25/09


things are always changing,but not God.people are always changing,not always for the good especially when they leave God out of their lives,but God isn,t,nor does his word change.It does change peoples minds,and more important their hearts,and more impoerant their attitudes.though at times here it seems people are rebelling,but thats natural,people just love to rebel.
---tom2 on 10/25/09


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Alan, Thank you for your kind words and understanding,
My belief is simple.
Jesus as a perfect counterpart of Adam, gave His life in exchange (ransom) that we might have a chance at what Adam forfeited ,To live forever!Obedience and acceptance is required

Creeping in to this scenario ,pagan beliefs.IE

#1People don't really die.(to await resurrection)
#2 God burns humans just to watch them scream
#3 And. God has 3 personalities!(or 3 heads)
#4 The bible has no errors.
---1st_cliff on 10/25/09


well personally I believe God knows how to make spotted lambs.
---tom2 on 10/24/09


Warwick,

Genesis30:37 But Jacob took fresh-cut branches from poplar, almond, and plane trees. He made white streaks by peeling them, making the white inner wood in the branches visible. 30:38 Then he set up the peeled branches in all the watering troughs where the flocks came to drink. He set up the branches in front of the flocks when they were in heat and came to drink. 30:39 When the sheep mated in front of the branches, they gave birth to young that were streaked or speckled or spotted.

Is this the literal word of god on how to breed spotted lambs?
---atheist on 10/24/09


Whilst I don't agree with them I can understand Atheist's point of 10/20, and Cliff's.

The canon was not set by Jesus but by men, who claimed to be inspired or led by the Spirit. Well they would claim that, wouldn't they?

And it was Paul who said that ALL SCRIPTURE (including his own contribution) is inspired by God. Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?

Thus the sceptics and non-believers might say


Now if Richard Dawkins said "I am right when I say there is no god, and the proof that I am right is that I say I am right", what would we say? .... "Well he would say that wouldn't he?"
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/24/09


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Warwick - the most you can conclude about cliff and others is that they may not have reached maturity as far as understanding of the Bible or spiritual things.

Looking back some 50 years when I first became a Christian, I can recall that I had little understanding at the time I first came to know Christ.

Essentially we all start off as babes in Christ needing to be nourished by His Spirit in His Word.

We should not rush to judgment and declare those who disagree with us that they are not Christians.

Please take your time and think about these things.
---lee on 10/24/09


no,satan has never messed with scripture,he has messed with peoples minds when they read scripture,and he has through the minds and tongues of many twisted scripture.But alas the truth is still the truth,even when the beast and his helpers attempt to pervert it.
---tom2 on 10/24/09


Warwick, Why am I not surprised at your stand?
You're not the 1st one to hurl insults and bail out when the questions get too difficult and touch nerve endings!
You're obviously comfortable in your Christian walk and like old folks say "We like things gist the way they are !"
---1st_cliff on 10/24/09


Warwick ... I think Cliff regards traditional Christianity as "Paulism" I asked him once to tell us what he does believe, but don't recall a reply.

But I think he is a Christian, in that he beleives in Jesus, and His saving sacrifice.

He obviously thinks Paul's teaching was not all correct, and adds in Paul's pre-existing prejudices.

Of course in logic, to say the Bible is all written by God, because it says so, is no more convincing than "I am right because I say I am right"

Cliff, these are my impressions of you ... you may correct me. But it would be good if you did affirm what you beleive. It would then be easier for others to discuss with you without acrimony
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/24/09


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Kathr, I do listen to Godly advice. One thing I have right is that God saved me, I never claim as you, that you had mercy on Christ so He should be glad you chose Him. That out of the goodness of your heart you gave Him a chance with your free will. I believe all that is garbage, and not Scriptural. I believe He had mercy on me a sinner.
Linda has done very good in many of her answers. If she ever said she was sinless I would have maybe answered her. If Warwick thought my actions were wrong he would have told me. I did it for a God's deity. I am sure Warwick understands. I know I would. I don't have to correct you because I don't want to even answer you. You can act kind, but inside you are the same person. Nothing changed.
---MarkV. on 10/24/09


Trav -- I'm pretty sure I disagree with you on a lot of things (though I can't remember) But don't let "curious one" get under your skin. Obviously, he's only here to stir up people for his own amusement.
---Donna66 on 10/23/09


Cliff, Adam chose to sin, Satan corrupted no one! And everyone since has chosen to sin. We are the problem, not Satan.

I have no idols. I do have a God who loved me so much He died in my place, paying the 'wages' of my sin. He forgave me and has gone ahead to prepare a place for everyone who comes to Him, honestly asking for forgiveness. You too can be forgiven and be there with those who have accepted His free gift. Your choice. Focus upon our Creator and Redeemer Jesus, not upon Satan the defeated one.

How do you know there is truth in the Bible?
---Warwick on 10/24/09


Jesus created Adam the first man in 4194 B.C. And in the 7th generation of man, Adam told his great great great great grandson Henoch about the creation. And I believe that in the 36th century B.C. Henoch wrote down what Adam told him firsthand in a book. Henoch was godly and walked with Jesus, and Jesus raptured him. And God instructed certain godly men to write down his words in a book in order to pass his words on to the future generations and to the children that would come after.

---Eloy on 10/24/09


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dumba, The Scripture was written in the Middle East in ancient Hebrew from the 36th century B.C. by Henoch in 3507 B.C. (ref: Gen.5:1+ Ex.17:14+ 31:18+ 32:15,16,19+ 34:1,4,27-29+ Deut.6:4-9). The N.T. began to be recorded by Matthew in 5 B.C., and finished by John around the 3rd decade A.D. The 1st English Bible based on the latin vulgate was transcribed by John Wycliff in 1380 A.D. And William Whittingham with his colleagues translated the 1st Bible from the Hebrew and Greek in 1560 A.D in Geneva, Switzerland.
---Eloy on 10/24/09


Cliff I don't think there is much, if any, point in us corresponding. I am a Christian and therefore trust what His word, and the Holy Spirit say. You on the other hand must spend your life trawling for this antiChristian nonsense you spew.

I have caught you in deceit, and shown your 'facts' to be wrong. You constantly pose 'problems' with Scripture which I have carefully answered, from Scripture and you continue to come up with more and more. You are not a believer with a few doubts but a 'wolf in the fold.'

I will hand you over to God for Him to deal with you.
---Warwick on 10/23/09


Warwick: "GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS"???
But God "allowed" satan to corrupt all mankind,bringing death and destruction and disease to man and animal...cause a flood wiping out the whole earth's population (except 8) Cause the sacrifice of His "only begotten Son"
Cause a place to burn humans forever (your belief)
But "hands off the bible???"
I see now the bible is not your instruction book, but your "idol"
The Quran commands the same reverence to Islam! The Book of Mormon to LDS. Idols!
For sure there's truth in the bible,but EVERY word???
---1st_cliff on 10/23/09


Cliff, throwing stones? As the man said throw a rock into a dog pack and the one who is hit yelps!

I do not work upon denominational lines and the one I attend does not believe it alone has the truth. We, like other Christians, believe the word of God has the truth. And we have the Holy Spirit to enlighten us. And as I mentioned Scripture interprets Scripture so Satan would have to change themes which run from Genesis to Revelation. Further God would not allow this. No way!

Who of the 'elect' have been fooled?

Your attitude to Scripture is quite hypocritical as you quote or refer to it e.g. 'Narrow is the gate' if it suits you, but reject the rest! How do you know Jesus said this? Maybe it was Satan?
---Warwick on 10/23/09


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Trav, oy VEH!
---Curious.one on 10/23/09


Trav's comments as the true Christian around here certainly don't make Christianity very attractive.
---Curious.one on 10/23/09

I don't profess to be. I will claim title as weakest christian alive. I will compare witness scriptures with you though for truth.....overlook me, if my personality leaves you chaffed.

Also thank GOD I don't meet measure of many denom..indoc'd. Their scripture/leaders mostly do not mesh in truth. But, political correctness/fear of the world today. Don't care how many times leader has preached, position they claim.....if they distort scripture/prophets they should be ashamed.

A white/grey lie...is still a lie. Maybe the color doesn't offend as much but it is still a lie.
---Trav on 10/23/09


Trav's comments as the true Christian around here certainly don't make Christianity very attractive.
---Curious.one on 10/23/09

Why would you be attracted to begin with?
What are you looking for?
You obviously are not Christian by the comment, but are considering?
You are now another belief/no belief?
---Trav on 10/23/09


Jesus is sinless perfection. When He shows up in my life, He is exactly who He is. That takes the pressure off me to be anything but a vessel He can shine through...even in His sinless perfection. It is not I who live but Christ that liveth within me. It isn't a sinless perfection theory. It is the truth that He is sinless perfection and can unveil Himself through earthen pots. I never said I was sinless perfection. He is...and as He is, so are we in this world. As He is in us and through us, so are we because we appear with Him in that same glory simply because we are what He has chosen to dwell in and manifest Himself through.
---Linda on 10/23/09


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The unveiling (revelation, apocalypse) of Jesus Christ takes place in the church first. The manifestation of the sons of God is the Son of God, Christ in you the hope of glory. Arise, shine, for thy light is come and the glory of the Lord is risen UPON you. Something's getting on you and there are some places He just can't stay hidden. The mystery is not a mystery anymore and "Lord, tell us where you dwell" has been answered. Heaven is His throne and earth is His footstool, and where is the place of His rest? If His feet are resting on the earth, don't you think that means something should be showing up in the earth?
---Linda on 10/23/09


Do you suppose what is showing up on His footstool should be looking like the old man Adam (along with all the curses released when he fell and his disorderly, disobedient walk), who was done away with in Christ and is truth to those who believe? Where is the place He rests? In the boat, it was on a pillow. A pillow is something that can be conformed to the head. Yes, He rests in a place that conforms to His head (mind). We must remember that the Jordan didn't go back at the words of the priests carrying the ark but at the feet of the priests.
---Linda on 10/23/09


There is a walk, not just a talk, that causes everything that is flowing out of Adam to back up so the people can pass through. Done in Christ, it is to be experienced in the life of the believer, not just some glad morning but each day we live in Him. His life in me is never over and the morning for me came the day God shone in my heart the same way He commanded light to shine in the darkness. It is time to shout with the voice of triumph.
---Linda on 10/23/09


Wawick, You can throw stones but the fact remains. satan has indeed deceived the "elect".
We have fought world wars to keep "freedom of religion" If it works for you ,so be it!
Just remember the stubbornness of the Israelites did not get them any favor!
I was once a member of a denomination that had the same mind set as you, "I'm right and the world is wrong"and"Any one who believes differently than me is "corrupted"!
A billion Catholics
A billion Muslims
A billion fundamentalists (in hundreds of sects)
No wonder Christ said "Narrow is the gate"
---1st_cliff on 10/23/09


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Warwick, "Jesus confronts Paul on his way to Damascus"
None who were with him heard the conversation (they heard a conversation but not WHAT was said) or saw Jesus ,right?
Did he suddenly become aware of "opportunity"?
Did he change his "pharisee" beliefs?
Christ sent out the evangelists saying "make disciples"
Paul created "churches" deacons,elders pastors, rules and regulations a whole
new" religion! If you can't see this...pity!
---1st_cliff on 10/23/09


Kathr, first of all the correction was for the glory of God. Second it was for him not you.

Third, the reason I said what I did to Warwick, was because when we speak many times we err when explaining something. And the err is on the deity of God, His nature, character and attributes.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09

MarkV, Warwick did not need YOUR CORRECTION, secondly Warwick was not in ERR that he needed YOUR correction.

He was perfectly understood---except by YOU! You create something that was never said so YOU can push your false doctrine!

Often MarkV you don't LISTEN to what others are saying, and end up agreeing with false doctrine RE, Linda's sinless perfection ETC, losing your own credibility!
---kathr4453 on 10/23/09


Trav's comments as the true Christian around here certainly don't make Christianity very attractive.
---Curious.one on 10/23/09


4)- The word Christ is from Krishna (Christna) from karast or krist, Egyptian for the annointed mummy, the great black avatar (savior) in India 3000 years before Jesus.
5)- The story of the resurrected God-King can be found among the Khoi and San peoples of southern Africa as early as 5,000BC.
---Kimberly on 10/21/09

You are one mixed up puppy. Obamanites have been feeding you confusion pudding. Southern or any Africans 5,000years built/contributed nothing notable or educational,lauguage wise or otherwise. There were actually very few in Southern Africa. No matter how you shade your history.
---Trav on 10/23/09


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Kathr, first of all the correction was for the glory of God. Second it was for him not you. I try not to answer your comments since you bring three or four topics at a time of different matters, and try to connect them to make your point. Which really no one can answer since they would have to answer one topic at a time. Plus you don't really want an answer.

Third, the reason I said what I did to Warwick, was because when we speak many times we err when explaining something. And the err is on the deity of God, His nature, character and attributes. I just wanted him to read his material before he sent them. That was all. He is a good debater and does his homework even though I don't agree with the Sabbath.
---MarkV. on 10/23/09


MarkV, The Gospel is not taught in French Schools ,or American Schools etc.

Therefore, the way I read this is, many students/children having never heard the Gospel will of coarse have their brains washed in humanism.

If however there are Christian children in these government schools who have been taught HOME/CHURCH and KNOW the Gospel and are saved already will not have their minds closed.

AND if any of those who have never heard the Gospel who's minds were already brainwashed HEAR the Gospel, then YES, the WORD of God is living and powerful and sharper than a two edge sword.

Warwick knows faith comes by hearing....so why did you QUESTION him???
---kathr4453 on 10/23/09


Around 1400 BC God began to quietly call some forty men and women into His presence. [Not all at once.] God used three wonderful methods as He carefully carved out that most blessed of all books, the Bible. These three "Tools of the Trinity" are referred to as Revelation, Inspiration, and Illumination....Revelation>>From God to man. Inspiration>>From man to paper. Illumination>>From paper to heart. He spoke the burden of His great heart in simple but sublime language to those chosen forty, with a holy hush they heard Him tell of creation and corruption, of condemnation, justification, sanctification, and glorification....Some of the ways He spoked through men were: angels, ass, loud voice, dreams, visions, and also, christophanies
---catherine on 10/23/09


Cliff falible I am but gulible I am not. I quickly saw through you and your cultic beliefs!

Satan has tried to mess with Scripture, as you have tried. A friend of yours?

Scripture interprets Scripture, no verse stands alone. Therefore Satan would have to corrupt whole themes from Genesis to Revelation to achieve his ends. Not a chance. Plus Christians have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which you don't have.

God's word says it is God breathed, but you suggest I should believe you over Scripture. Fat chance.

BTW it has taken me years of intense study and prayer to come to my understanding of Scripture. Naievly embracing every word? You jest!

Jesus did indeed warn us about deceivers such as you!
---Warwick on 10/23/09


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well,well,well, as a believer I know theres only one origin,look up,he is there,but his spirit is in the world,and jesus is his word.And the word became flesh,and dwelt among us.AMEN.
---tom2 on 10/22/09


Warwick, You should have said Cliff ably demonstrates the difference between "gullible" and skeptic.
Do you actually believe that satan has never messed with scripture??
Would you know??
Naively embracing every word as
"God breathed" without question??
Satan is relying heavily on that mind-set.
Why did Jesus bother to warn???
He deceived Angels,he deceived a perfect man and woman, Ahh but he couldn't trick me I'm too smart for that!! (yah right)
---1st_cliff on 10/22/09


Where the Bible comes from is immaterial, its whom does the Bible come from that is paramount. The answer-God.

The answer to the original question is Africa, Asia, Europe (Greece)
---larry on 10/22/09


Cliff that ably demonstrates the difference between the Bible-believer and the skeptic.

Believers know the Bible is the word of God, as it says so.

The skeptic who follows the words of man claims it is a purely human work.

I am glad that I can teach you something. you have taught me much!
---Warwick on 10/22/09


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Kathr, you said no to the same thing I said no to. Your answer was to proof me wrong when I said the same thing you did. I was suggesting to Warwick just that. And you said I was wrong. That nothing can defeat the power of God.
Then you talked about a believer and when he believes, which really has nothing to do with my answer to him. And what was amazing to me was that Miche gave you an amen. Amen on what? she added, "that is how God saves souls everyday"
Where did that come from?
---MarkV. on 10/22/09


It is true, one must know who and what to believe in so we can put our faith in it.
We must have a choice whom to serve, if not, why give man a brain/intellect or ears to hear the word?
---calhoon on 10/22/09


Warwick, * "I particularly like Rom.1.20. where God tells us*..."
I never knew that God wrote the book of Romans...you learn something new every day on these blogs!
---1st_cliff on 10/22/09


Mark, the pastors comments were regarding nonChristians they were trying to reach with the gospel.

Compare Acts 2:14-41, with 17: 16-34. Read this carefully, notice the different reactions of Paul's listeners. Please tell me why the difference?

As one example of my point the leader of an active university-basesd Christian group wrote to me saying: "This (creation) is a vital subject at uni.since the institution's philosophy of education is secular humanism. Thus students are bombarded with it in every lecture .....this constant 'brainwashing' destroys the faith of many Christians each year. Our surveys indicate 80% of 1st year students believe in a 'God who is there.' 'By their second year only 15% believed in God."
---Warwick on 10/22/09


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One is not a TRUE believer before they hear the Truth to believe becoming a TRUE Believer.

---kathr4453 on 10/22/09

Amen, Kath!!! that is how God's saves souls everyday!

Samuel, I enjoyed your last post too.
To touch on that, I was watching the History Chanel and they were talking about the 7 seals in Revelations. And some of the stuff they were trying to say the horsemen represent was just preposterous!
That is man's thinking for ya right there. If they were to get saved and let the Holy Spirit teach them, they would realize what the truth is and that they were horribly wrong, LOL.
---miche3754 on 10/22/09


Excelent points Tom2

Kimberly the idea that Hebrew thinking and teachings on GOD is rejected by most scholars who do not accept the Bible as being from GOD. They look more to the Persians and middle east.

One thing I enjoy is that scholars who are opposed to the Bible being from GOD keep trying to find other sources for what it teaches. Yet many have to admit that it is unique in it's teachings and perspective and detail.

In my view and in most of those who believe the Bible to be true. The other relgions are latter corruptions of what the Bible and GOD taught all along.
---Samuel on 10/22/09


" The pastor said the teaching of evolution as fact in French schools closes minds to the gospel." You say you had the same experience.
Now I do not know who's minds it closes but it cannot be the minds of the genuine believers since the Holy Spirit opens their minds. And if the Holy Spirit opens their minds and the teaching of evolution closes them, it would suggest that the teaching of evolution is more powerful then the Holy Spirit. Defeating the purpose of God.
---MarkV. on 10/22/09


No MarkV, it shows the POWER of the Gospel is STRONGER then the teachings of man.

One is not a TRUE believer before they hear the Truth to believe becoming a TRUE Believer.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/09


Warwick, I follow your answers very often and you have done your homework very well, but I noticed something that you mentioned to Miche, and I hope you don't mind me saying this because it comes from the heart. When you said,
" The pastor said the teaching of evolution as fact in French schools closes minds to the gospel." You say you had the same experience.
Now I do not know who's minds it closes but it cannot be the minds of the genuine believers since the Holy Spirit opens their minds. And if the Holy Spirit opens their minds and the teaching of evolution closes them, it would suggest that the teaching of evolution is more powerful then the Holy Spirit. Defeating the purpose of God.
---MarkV. on 10/22/09


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Miche, it is great that you saw through the evolutonary story. Sadly large nunbers don't. I spoke at a Christian seminar in Paris, alongside a German scientist. The pastor said the teaching of evolution as fact in French schools closes minds to the gospel. I have had the same experience here in Australia and other countries. I spoke in New Caledonia on the case for Biblical creation, and against evolution. Many university students had been invited along. Afterwards the pastor gave people an invitation to repent and accept Jesus as their Saviour. I speak some French but used an interpreter, who did not understand the issue. God overruled and people were saved. I was able to answer their questions, therefore causing them to think again.
---Warwick on 10/21/09


the bible has its origins where eveything else does GOD,and i mean EVERYTHING,except evil.
---tom2 on 10/21/09


Samuel you wrote 'Also many books of the New Testament were being quoted by Christians very early in the second century. So how could they quote something that had not been written?' Good point.

Also Peter (2 Pe. 3:16) refers to Pauls writings, equating them to Scripture. Bit hard to do if they hadn't been written!
---Warwick on 10/21/09


You know Warwick, when I was young, that was how knew that God existed. Just looking around.
I always wondered in science class how people could actually think we came from monkeys and such.
I believe in my heart that was God's Spirit showing and calling me then.
The Bible is definately God's word and I take nothing away from that. It really doesn't matter to me when it was written or put together. It is a testimony of God and what he should mean to everyone. Sadly, not everyone sees or wants to listen to the blessings he has for us. They would rather go on and claim the glory for themselves instead of Praising God. Thankfully, we have our brothers and sisters here on CN to help us do that!
---miche3754 on 10/21/09


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1)- The word Bible comes from Byblos,Pyplus/PyprusPapyrus. Holy comes from Helios. Helios is the greek corruption of Ra. Holy bible = Helios Papyrus. Or, Papers/Papyrus/Book of Ra.
2)- The Torah is a corruption of tua Ra. This is the title of many compositions of ancient Kemet/Egypt. For example, tua means worship, adoration. Tua Ra means the Worship/Adoration of Ra. Hence, Torah.
3)- The entire story of jesus (and all other religions) is a deliberate perversion of the cosmology story of Ausar, Auset and Heru (Osiris, Isis, and Horus) Osiris is the Greek translation of the Kemetian name Asar (or Usar) or Ausar, Auset (Isis) son/sun child king named Heru (Horus)
---Kimberly on 10/21/09


4)- The word Christ is from Krishna (Christna) from karast or krist, Egyptian for the annointed mummy, the great black avatar (savior) in India 3000 years before Jesus.
5)- The story of the resurrected God-King can be found among the Khoi and San peoples of southern Africa as early as 5,000BC. It is only in Africa that the story is this old. Often called, the mouthpiece of Africa, Egypts location gave it contact with the Near East. Not surprisingly, years later the story of the God-King and his divine son appear in many other cultures.
---Kimberly on 10/21/09


g sorry but iam a bible scholar ,with a doctriate,and all the books present in todays bible were written before johns death in the mid to late ninities in the first century,that is an accepted academic fact.the books you speak of are the nostic books written after the first century,and for that primary reason and others were never canonized.some were headed with apostles nam,es ,but it can not be documented that the apostle wrote them,such as the gospel of peter,and thomas,theere is a gospel of phillip also ,and others,these are the ones that you are speaking ofwritten begining in the middle of the second century.
---tom2 on 10/21/09


The council according to my sources stated they would not accept documents to be included in the Bible that were written after the first Century AD. Some speculate that the Scholars of that time were wrong but they cannot prove it.

Also many books of the New Testament were being quoted by Christians very early in the second century. So how could they quote something that had not been written?
---Samuel on 10/21/09


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Certain people spend time trying to undermine the truth of Scripture. Countless others before them have also tried, and also failed, dismally.

I was once one of those, but praise God He lead me to see Truth. Since then I have read the Bible through and through and never cease to be amazed at its integrity. It interlocks from Genesis to revelation, not a human work.

Feeding on God's Truth has transformed my life and brought me many blessings. If I listed them you would be forgiven for calling me a boaster.

I particularly like Romans 1:20 where God tells us that which He created is proof of His existence. So much proof that those who will not believe, 'are without excuse.'
---Warwick on 10/21/09


Tom2,
Most of the books in the NT were written in the last half of the 1st and first half of the 2nd.
It is not true that they all were written before 90 ad.
most scholars can't pin down an exact date for any of them. Most have a +/- of 50 years.
Anyway, why do you think that the council refused so many books?
AND did you know they almost removed the books of Esther and Ruth from the OT?
They simply thought they didn't belong because they were about women.
---g on 10/21/09


if you read the bool of acts ,written by luke ther is no mentiom of the destruction of the temple,and pauls ministry and arrest are mentioned,there are many ither verifiable dating methods which place all the books of the new testament written between 50,and late 90s ad,so yes all were written in the first century,which is an accepted fact by nearly all major historical theologians,with revelation being written last near johns death before the end of the first century.none were written after,all between 50 aand late 90s ad.
---tom2 on 10/20/09


Samuel, not all the NT books were written in the first century.
1 and 2 timothy, 2 peter, titus were written in the 2nd century and over half of the NT was written between latter 1st and early to mid 2nd century.
There were a lot of books that were utilized before the canonized Bible. Many were cut out because they weren't understood, confirm other books or way too spiritual.
---miche3754 on 10/20/09


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"...the bible we have today are those writing canonized by the church leaders in the 3rd,or 4th century."

So the 'church leaders' about 1800 years ago decided which writings to include or exclude as the 'word of god'?

How do you know they got it right?

Would they not tend to include, translate, or interpret only those parts that would establish their 'church' and their 'leadership' as the one correctly established by the 'word'?

Is not the canon of a 'church' then the expediantly chosen 'word' to establish the validity of that 'church'?
---atheist on 10/20/09


The Torah was written over a period of about 4,000 years before JESUS came. Moses wrote the first five books of which Genesis is the time period before he was born.

The Torah was finished and complete a couple of hundred years before JESUS came.

All the books of the New Testament were written in the first century. The early church required that the books of the New Testament had to be written in the first century to be included. They strove to confirm that each was written by an Apostle or Leader in the church.
---Samuel on 10/20/09


the bible we have today are those writing canonized by the church leaders in the 3rd,or 4th century.atleast as far as the new testament is concerned,the old testament is the tora,or bible of the jews,but both are the word.
---tom2 on 10/20/09


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