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Christmas Celebrates A Death

Someone here claims that Christmas celebrates of the Death Of Christ. Is there any evidence of that?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 10/19/09
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Rhonda: Do you think that the three wise men were wrong to travel all that way to celebrate Jesus' birth?
---jerry6593 on 11/3/09


Cliff ... Congratulations ... just as I would have expected of you! There is no commandment to celebrate the resurrection, although there's no prohibition either.

But of course the commandment in Luke 22.19 is not to celebrate His death.

Nor do the words of the Eucharist celebrate His death, but they do refer to His resurrection and the Salvation berought by His death & resurrection (the former without the latter would be useless) and that is what is celebrated in the Mass and protestant communion, not just His death as Rhonda appears to maintain.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/2/09


I realize that objective truth, especially about the Roman Catholic Church, means little to some people who have their minds made up.

However, the English word MASS is from the Latin word MISSA (cognates are found in most European languages), which is related to the word MISSIO (probably translating the idea of the Greek word LEITOURGIA).

Its use as a liturgical name for the Eucharistic service of the Latin church comes from some of its final words in Latin: "Ite missa est," which can be loosely translated as "Go. Mission accomplished."

(For that matter, any translation of this dense untranslatable bit of Latin will be loose.)
---Cluny on 11/2/09


Sorry Alan, I misread you post.

I'm still waiting for Cluny paste of my post.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/2/09


Pastor Jim .... As you say, "Learn how to read before being made fools"

So, "Now show me where did I say"...that you used the words "Celebrate his death"

(I was asking if you could provide the evidence that Rhonda is so reluctant to submit)

Even in her latest psots of 11/1 and 11/2 she still does not answer, and persists with the falsehood that the suffix "mas" means death ... that I have disproved already in my reference to Michaelmas Candlemas and Lammas

---alan8566_of_uk on 11/2/09




Alan, You mentioned to Pastor Jim that we are commanded to "remember" Christ's death and to celebrate His resurrection"
Can you point out that scripture? please!
---1st_cliff on 11/2/09


\\She insists also that the RC mass celebrates death,\\

I've been looking for an excuse to quote this prayer:

"The mystery of Your dispensation, O Christ our God, has been accomplished and perfected as far as it was in our power. For we have had the memorial of Your death, we have seen the type of Your Resurrection..."

This is from the Liturgy of St. Basil.

I wonder if Rhonda can quote an actual prayer from the Roman Catholic mass (either form) that says it "celebrates" (whatever this might mean to her) Christ's death.
---Cluny on 11/2/09


Rita .... YES YES YES!!

I asked the question just because Rhonda will not accept that, and insists that Christmas is the Celebration of Christ's death. And I have been trying to find out what evidence she has that that was ever the case. And so far she has not answered.

She insists also that the RC mass celebrates death, but it, and Protestant Eucharists & Communion, & Lord's Supper, remembers His death, and celebrates His glorious Resurrection.
---alan7566_of_UK on 11/2/09


\\
True Christians are forbidden to declare evil holy\\

The whole point of Christianity is to take something, or someone, who was evil and estranged from God, and make this thing or person holy.

Didn't you know that?

Or are you saying you were born holy and never evil, Rhonda?
---Cluny on 11/2/09


All of this debate over Christmas is confusing to me. The real question should be where is your heart in what you do? God knows our heart so, regardless whether or not Christmas originated from pagan beliefs, it all comes down to why do you do it? For the Bible says, 5One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God, and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. (Rom 14:5-7)
---Rita on 11/2/09




Rhonda ... Why don't you answer the simple question that I posed?

You promised to do so, but have not.

Maybe it is because you cannot
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/2/09


And to revert to my original question, where is the evidence that at Christmas we celebrate His death, as Rhonda insists?
****

AND WHERE is the "evidence" xmas celebrates a "birth" ...is it because over centuries the spin of pagan days is blurred into mainstream world ...a world that calls a lie truth?

you can DENY what the "mas(s)" stands for in word christ-mas but HISTORY tells us where it originates - MASS is a DEATH SACRIFICE per RCC

suns-day of 12/25 is ALSO a DEATH sacrifice - pagans sacrificed their children

...xmas is NOT for or about Biblical Christ

celebrate the day if you choose and HONOR RCC who invented the word and the day christ-mas(s)
---Rhonda on 11/1/09


Alan, Cluny, Rhonda..., Learn how to read before being made fools.

Now show me where did I say...

1) "It was Forbidden" (Cluny/ Rhonda)
2) "Celebrate his death" (Alan)

Please copy this exact quote you see And post it.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/1/09


\\Your are commanded to observe Jesus Death/Resurrection. Not his Birth. (not in the NT)

Where are we FORBIDDEN to observe His birth?
*****

True Christians are forbidden to declare evil holy

Where are we TOLD to observe the Biblical Christs birth?

where are we TOLD to observe ALL myths superstitions and evil associated with xmas day of abomination that counterfeit christians DENY are heathen days The Father in Heaven HATES Jer 44:1-4, 28, 29 ...whose words shall stand mine (God) or theirs (men)

2Tim 4:3-4 ...men will not put up with sound doctrine ...turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to MYTHS ...following & teaching traditions of MEN foolishly REJECTING God Mark 7:6-9
---Rhonda on 11/1/09


\\Do your own reserarch not accept your preacher as gospel. It is why I am using the Pastor title here.\\

And that's why I don't accept what you say.

\\Your are commanded to observe Jesus Death/Resurrection. Not his Birth. (not in the NT) .\\

Where are we FORBIDDEN to observe His birth?
---Cluny on 11/1/09


It's a TRUTH, not a DAY, that's being celebrated.

Got it?
******

WHICH TRUTH?

Where is this "truth" from Holy Word of God?

2Corin 11:4 speaks of ANOTHER JESUS - this is the Jesus who the world bows down to on xmas day ...THAT IS TRUTH given by RCC

Biblical Christ is NOT honored on xmas day ...a day where the NAME christ-mas(s) MEANS death of Christ

ACTIONS on xmas point to birth of sun-god yet mouth points to DEATH of Christ ...and YES THAT IS TRUTH

celebrate the day and HONOR RCC who created it ...the LIES one must tell to insist it is FROM God PROVE the abomination of the day
---Rhonda on 11/1/09


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Pastor Jim ... We are commanded to remember (not celebrate) Jesus's death, and to celebrate His resurrection ... that after all was the purpose of it all.

But where is the commandment that we should not celebrate anything in His life (say the giving of the Beatitudes, which is something to celebrate) or His birth?

And I too have done some research, and found that the Bible does not give authority to use computers to blog. Does that mean we must not?

And to revert to my original question, where is the evidence that at Christmas we celebrate His death, as Rhonda insists?
---alan_8566_of_uk on 11/1/09


Wrong! Im not telling anyone to do anything. I post against that. I am saying is, do not be a "Me Too" fool. The Berean Jews double checked all of Paul's preaching against scripture. I am telling everyone to do the same. Do your own reserarch not accept your preacher as gospel. It is why I am using the Pastor title here.

Your are commanded to observe Jesus Death/Resurrection. Not his Birth. (not in the NT) . So I gave some facts and YOU should do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Do not accpet ANY mans/church traditions but scripture only. YES, that includes me, you, or King Constantine and the Holy Roman Empire whoat decreed these holidays as holy. NOT GOD!
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/1/09


Alan, don't let any dead anti-Christmas people dampen your celebrating of Christ's live birth.
---Eloy on 11/1/09


\\Christmas is the holiest Pagan Holiday.\\

YOU might have been celebrating a pagan holiday, Pator Jim.

YOU might think OTHERS are celebrating a pagan holidy.

**I** am not.

**I**, along with millions of other Christians, are celebrating the FACT of the Holy Nativity according to the Flesh of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

It's a TRUTH, not a DAY, that's being celebrated.

Got it?
---Cluny on 10/31/09


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Looking at this whole traditional Christmas thing cynically seem like,
People spend money (they don't have)
For presents (they don't need)
For people (they don't like!)
Bah humbugs.....but the lights are pretty!
If you can get thru the family meal and fellowshipping afterwards without old resurrected arguments...then it ain't so bad!
---1st_cliff on 10/31/09


Alan: It is indeed frustrating when folks don't stick to the topic. I know the feeling well. I've never heard of Christmas celebrating Jesus' death - only His birth. And, although the Christmas Season has many pagan symbols attached to it, it nonetheless is a time when people's hearts are softened, and are more receptive to Christian witnessing.
---jerry6593 on 10/31/09


Alan,

Christmas is the holiest Pagan Holiday. It celebrates the gods of light. They added Jesus to the list, because they heard he was also a god of light. It is a day to appease the gods of light in hope they will return after winter. So they burn a Yule log all night and bring in an Evergreen tree in the home. It can relate to death because of winter. Jesus was born in Sept during the High Holy days. Now dubbed Jewish Holidays".
Hope this helps
---Pastor_Jim on 10/31/09


Cluny ... I expect so!!

On the other blog, I did not think Benedict had taught that ... but on your earlier post, the "n" was left off the beginning of "never", so it read as if you said he had.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/30/09


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\\
But in that xcase, the statement was made specifically that Christmas celbrates the death of Christ.

The person hwo made thta statement has promised to provide the veidence, but has not done so.

Presumably either unable or unwilling to provide it!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/29/09\\

Could it be because there is NO such evidence?
---Cluny on 10/29/09


Scott ... Sorry for the typos! I was very tired.
---alan8566 on 10/29/09


Thanks Scott ... Of course there are in some chuirches celebrations incorporated, which refer to the reason that Christ came, and to celebrate the actual outcome of His life

But in that xcase, the statement was made specifically that Christmas celbrates the death of Christ.

The person hwo made thta statement has promised to provide the veidence, but has not done so.

Presumably either unable or unwilling to provide it!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/29/09


"Can you help?" alan8566_of_uk on 10/28/09

I suppose that would have to be answered by the "Someone" who made the claim. I'm not familiar with any evidence that the customs or practices associated with the Christmas celebration today actually commemorate Christ's death.

Perhaps the statement is in reference to the commemoration of Christ's sacrificial death, the "Last supper" or "Lord's evening meal" that Christ himself established with the words "Do this in remembrance of me." The only "celebration" or commemoration that Christians were ever told to observe. Matthew 26.26-28, Mark 14.22-25, Luke 22.14, 1 Corinthians 11.20-34
---scott on 10/29/09


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Scott ... why is everyone so reluctant to answer the original question?

It was: Someone here claims that Christmas celebrates of the Death Of Christ. Is there any evidence of that?

Can you help?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/28/09


B I R T H D A Y S - 2

"Of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast...on his birthday. It is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born..."
The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911, Vol. X, pg 709

"The celebration of the anniversary of an individual's birth, though customary among the ancients, was originally frowned upon by the Christians. Origen...assures his hearers that 'none of the saints can be found who ever held a feast or a banquet upon his birthday, or rejoiced on the day when his son or his daughter was born. But sinners rejoice and make merry on such days." William S. Walsh, Curiosities of Popular Customs
---scott on 10/28/09


B I R T H D A Y S - 3

"The ancient world of Egypt, Greece, Rome and Persia celebrated the birthdays of gods, kings, and nobles...Although the ancient Israelis kept records of the ages of their male citizens, there is no evidence that they had any festivities on the anniversary of the birth date" Encyclopedia Americana 1991

"Christians of the first century did not celebrate the festival honoring the birth of Jesus-for the same reason they honored no other birthday anniversary. It was the feeling at that time by all Christians that the celebration of all birthdays (even the Lord's) was a custom of the pagans." Dr. John C. McCollister's The Christian Book of Why
---scott on 10/28/09


B I R T H D A Y S - 1

"The keeping of birthday records was important in ancient times principally because a birth date was essential for the casting of a horoscope."
The Lore of Birthdays, Ralph and Adelin Linton

"The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of NT origin. The day of Christ's birth cannot be ascertained from the NT, or, indeed, from any other source. The fathers of the first three centuries do not speak of any special observance of the nativity."
Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1981 reprint), by John McClintock and James Strong, Volume II, page 276.
---scott on 10/28/09


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Donna ... "The best thing is just that our countries remain friends"

Yes indeed ... even through times whern we disagree and our interests conflict.

Would that it could be the same with many more countries
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/28/09


LOL, Good one, Alan of UK. July 4th probably IS some pagan holiday! You can find most anything, if you look hard enough. Few Americans would care... just like they don't care WHAT pagans once celebrated on Dec. 25th.

It is a good thing the US is not part of the England.
It was a good idea in 1776 and it still is. :)
The best thing is just that our countries remain friends.
---Donna66 on 10/27/09


Rhonda ... Will you ever attempt to answer the question?

Please produce your evidence that Christmas celebrates the death of Christ.
---alan8566_iof_uk on 10/27/09


\\xmas does not honor biblical Jesus who is the SON spelled with an "o"\\

Yes, it does, and your denying it doesn't change that fact.

Btw--if you're trying to be insulting by using the spelling "xmas," know that the X is the first letter of the Greek spelling of Christ: XPICTOC.
---Cluny on 10/27/09


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John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And do you REALLY think the Father is jealous of the Son?
*****

xmas does not honor biblical Jesus who is the SON spelled with an "o"

xmas honors the suns-day with Jesus superimposed over the SUN spelled with a "u"

the SON of God is NOT THE SAME as sun-worship

The Word of God tells us what is an HONOR and what is HOLY ...foolish men determine for themselves blindly entering the wide gate to follow MENS traditions Mark 7:6-9
---Rhonda on 10/27/09


Steveng ... You have taken my comment out of its context, but have been useful in that you have pointed out "different culture" A pity Rhonda does not realise that when Christians celebrate the birth of Christ, that is what they are doing, not celbrating something from another culture, the death of something.

She still has provided no evidence that Christmas celebrates the death of Christ. I doubt if she evwer will even try.

BTW, I've never carried a chip about the US not bing part of England ... never really thought about it before. Now that I do, it seems a good thing!
---alann8566_of_uk on 10/27/09


alan8566_of_uk: "They are celebrating the death on July 4th, 943AD of Taejo of Goryeo, Ruler of Korea."

I thought you were a lot smarter than that. Why do you mix one culture with another? Every country has their own fesitivals and days of celebration of one thing or another. Americans are not living in Korea, they are living in america and, therefore, celebrate that country's days of celebration. Korea may celebrate the death, but americans celebrate independence. Or are still carrying the chip on your shoulders that americia is not part of England?

As for me, every day is the same except, of course, the Sabbath.
---Steveng on 10/26/09


\\The true God commands that we must worship Him in spirit and in truth." It is the Father we must worship, not Jesus. Could christmas be part of the great deception?
---Steveng on 10/25/09\\

No, it's not. Jesus says so.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And do you REALLY think the Father is jealous of the Son?

John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
---Cluny on 10/26/09


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Steveng (and Rhonda) ... I do not know if you are an American citizen, nor if you celebrate July 4th.

But I have news for the millions of Americans who think they are celebrating Independence Day. THEY ARE NOT.

They are celebrating the death on July 4th, 943AD of Taejo of Goryeo, Ruler of Korea

Woe to all those Americans who falsely celebrate Independence Day!

They are committing treason, not only of their country, & of their christian heritage, but of their political system, because they celebrate the death of a foreign pagan King

Sound familiar?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/26/09


Rhonda, There are those who believe that because Pharaoh's cup bearer was killed on Pharaoh's birthday and John the Baptist was beheaded on Herod's birthday that no one should celebrate a birth day.
They have no problem celebrating "anniversaries" as if no one was ever killed on this day. Because it's not mentioned in scripture it's OK!
Actually it's an attempt to completely "control" their members!
Has nothing to do with birthdays*,only obedience!
* or Easter,Thanksgiving, Mother's Day,Father's Day, New Years,Valentines..etc.
---1st_cliff on 10/25/09


Christmas celebrates of the Death Of Christ. Can you provide any evidence of that?"

But, aside from what I posted earlier, christmas is surely a pagan feast. What do Nimrod, Saturn, Molech, and Baal have in common? Like Satan, these are the fire god(s) who destroys and devours little children. And all are related to the pagan feast, christmas. The fruits of christmas are terrible, indeed. Did God command us to celibrate christmas? What does God command his people to do?

The true God commands that we must worship Him in spirit and in truth." It is the Father we must worship, not Jesus. Could christmas be part of the great deception?
---Steveng on 10/25/09


Rhonda ... I have already given you a few examples of festivals where the "-mas" part of the word cannot possibly mean death.

When will you answer my original question?

Is there any evidence that Christmas celebrates the death of Christ?

Can you point to any time in history where Christians have celebrated Christ's death at Christmas, rather than His birth?

Can you give any evidence that the RCC instituted Christmas to celebrate His death, rather that His birth?

You seem determined to avoid this question, even though you did promise to answer it when you had time..
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/25/09


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And don't fall back on you discredited defination of "mas"
---alan
*****

well than Alan please do share ...keep asking over numerous posts yet all I get in return is that I am "wrong" ...curious thing nobody has offered the "correct" definition of mas(s) from christ-mas(s) yet many have a world of babble to declare christ-mas(s) in HONOR of God when it was RCC who established the day

NOT MY definition anyone who cares to seek truth can find the same definitions throughout creditable historic resources

however when you EVADE and DODGE it is far more ignorant than simply subscribing to FABLE itself

so Alan what is the "credited definition" of the mas(s) from christ-mas?
---Rhonda on 10/25/09


\\Im wrong??? Really then why did you not correct me with WHERE WORD christ-mas(s) originated?\\

I've corrected you on SEVERAL places where you were wrong in this matter, there were so many ways in which you were wrong.

The word "Christmas" originated in England, not the Roman Catholic Church.

The Latin name is Nativitas (Nativity), whence Spanish Navidad and Italian Natale. Greek is XPICTOYGENNA--Christ birth. Same in Russian.

Are you claiming to call upon the Biblical Christ, Rhonda?
---Cluny on 10/25/09


Rhonda ... The original question was quite simple, as were my subsequent ones:

"You, Rhonda, claim that Christmas celebrates of the Death Of Christ. Can you provide any evidence of that?"

Which Christian do you know who celebrates the death of Christ at Christmas? Which Christian ever celebrated the death of Christ at Christmas?"

Have you yet had time to consider your response?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/25/09


Rhonda ... "ancient Israel NEVER celebrated births"

Can you be you sure? The Bible does not record the birth of Elijah, Paul, Esther, Timothy, or Peter. Does that mean they were not born?
******getting much FURTHER from YOUR original question

celebrating a birth year after year is VERY DIFFERENT from being born

Do you NOT SEE this? or are you just argumentative for a demented purpose?

There are TWO birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible NOT ONE is HAPPY

amazing how a yearly celebration is now ignorantly associated with one having an ACTUAL birth

I guess society is so BACKWARD today if they don't celebrate their birth every year it will mean they were "never born"
---Rhonda on 10/25/09


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\\christ-mas(s) is death of Christ PER RCC who invented the term
---Rhonda on 10/21/09\\

Wrong again, Rhonda, as you are in so many other things you say here.

The name Christmas was NOT invented by the Roman Catholic Church, does NOT exist in Latin, and has never been used in any of her official liturgical books.
*******

Im wrong??? Really then why did you not correct me with WHERE WORD christ-mas(s) originated?

Satan the spin doctor father of lies creats so much SPIN about suns-day ....drowning in IDEAs about xmas yet REFUSE to acknowledge Truth about the day preferring to keep there heads in the sand promoting a day for Satan

ACTIONS are for Satan lying lips call on Biblical Christ
---Rhonda on 10/24/09


Do you now see why the author of the post did not cite texts authorizing the celebration of the birth of Jesus
*******

more word play nonsensical drivel of cutesy riddles wrapped up in enigmas to EVADE to defend traditions of men

CLEARY far too busy making your riddle more comical to DODGE truth

so Donna tell us then ...where did WORD Christ-mas(s) originate ...regurgitating information fed to you smooth lies of the day rather than seeking out truth?

it isnt super hard to FIND the answers ...seeing Gods Holy Word NOT relevant to you or Cluny because computers are not mentioned in scripture JUST like xmas

one would think you would have a PROPER definition to share?
---Rhonda on 10/24/09


Rhonda ... "ancient Israel NEVER celebrated births"

Can you be you sure? The Bible does not record the birth of Elijah, Paul, Esther, Timothy, or Peter. Does that mean they were not born?

We know from contemporary records that Churchill, Roosevelt, Kennedy, etc celebrated birthdays. But the history books of the future will not mention those birthdays, any more than they mention the celebrations of Henry V111 or Thomas a Becket. Just as the Bible does not mention birth anniversaries.

You've indicated elsewhere that birthdays are just a pagan celebration. Do you have biblical evidence of that? Can you show that the pagans of Biblical times, Egyptians, Philistines, Baalites, and others celebrated birthdays?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/24/09


No, not a shread.
---Eloy on 10/24/09


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Rhonda ''' I'll accept what yopu say about Barmitzvar, but of course it was to do with the anniversary of the birthday, and I am sure that some celebration took place.

But that is not the issue ... pewrhaps when you do have the time, you can provide evidence to support your statement that Christmas celebrates Christ's death.

And don't fall back on you discredited defination of "mas"
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/24/09


\\term "Bar Mitzvah" means "son of a commendment" in Hebrew ...for young man who has reached age (by Jewish law) where he is now obligated to observe all statutes and rules of Jewish law Mosaic 613 laws\\

Rhonda, can you tell us right now--without looking it up--the age one becomes bar mitzvah?

(BTW--I can.)
---Cluny on 10/23/09


Alan why would you bring in irrelevant idea's to argue for a day NOT FROM God

although YOU could look this up

term "Bar Mitzvah" means "son of a commendment" in Hebrew ...for young man who has reached age (by Jewish law) where he is now obligated to observe all statutes and rules of Jewish law Mosaic 613 laws

it happens at AN AGE ...not a "birthday"

and further it ONLY HAPPENS ONCE ...ironically Bar Mitzvah CREATED by Talmuds shortly after death of Christ - seeing Christ did not celebrate

but anyway ...

ancient Israel NEVER celebrated births ...maybe those who call themselves "jew" today do

when I have time I'll respond to your other questions
---Rhonda on 10/23/09


Do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days these are only the shadow of the things to come, but the reality is Christ!

Anything that brings glory to God is good. Isn't that what Christmas is all about? Unfortuneately, true love is as rare as an ounce of gold found in the desert and the abuse of the feast is great.
---Steveng on 10/21/09


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personally I celebrate his coming always.yes there was a celebration after jesus,s birth,behold I bring you tidings of great joy,that shall be for all men,unto this day is born a savior,christ the lord,sounds like a celebration to me.
---tom2 on 10/21/09


\\christ-mas(s) is death of Christ PER RCC who invented the term
---Rhonda on 10/21/09\\

Wrong again, Rhonda, as you are in so many other things you say here.

The name Christmas was NOT invented by the Roman Catholic Church, does NOT exist in Latin, and has never been used in any of her official liturgical books.

Please see my posting about how the English names of things do not reflect general European useage.

And if there is no scriptural warrant for Christmas, then you have none for using a computer blog, either.

Please be consistent.
---Cluny on 10/21/09


Rhonda -- Perhaps the best way to read a sentence is to READ THE WHOLE SENTENCE.

Here is the quote:
//There are as many Biblical texts authorizing the celebration of the birth of Jesus AS......
there are Biblical texts authorizing you to use computer blogs to express your opinion//

Do you now see why the author of the post did not cite texts authorizing the celebration of the birth of Jesus? Do you see what he was saying? Do you need scriptural texts to express yourself on a computer blog? Do you need scripture texts to celebrate Christmas?
---Donna66 on 10/21/09


Pagan fight like hell to be with relatives on Thanksgiving and have no idea why. To be thankful to whom for what? The holiday was originally called Thanksgiving to God but again hijacked by Pagans.
*****

uh what?

anyone can be thankful ...slamming atheists and pagans because they do not believe in a Divine Creator is foolish

and WHICH DAY was Thanksgiving Day before it became such a day sometime in mid 1800's? ..it was JUST another day

unlike nativity noel xmas christ-mas(s) yule and a dozen or so OTHER NAMES used today for the suns-day

how clever Satan is when he duped mankind using his instrument RCC by repackaging suns-day superimposing Christ over this day a pagan day of sacrifice
---Rhonda on 10/21/09


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Rhonda ... I notice that you have not answered my posts of 20th October.

Is that because you will not or cannot?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/21/09


There are as many Biblical texts authorizing the celebration of the birth of Jesus
******

REALLY - "many" texts authorizing a celebration of birth? ...well now ...why didn't you include them?

Are these verses supporting the celebrating of Christs birth written backwards in scripture in some sort of code that only YOU know?

Apostles did not celebrate Christs birth

Christ did not celebrate his birth

Ancient Israel did not celebrate births

where are all the happy birthday "celebrations" in Gods Word?

there is no "evidence" of christ-mas(s) FROM Holy Word of God

christ-mas(s) is death of Christ PER RCC who invented the term
---Rhonda on 10/21/09


Some people seem to think that English names are the standard for everything, getting upset at the name Easter, for example, even though most other European languages call this feast Pascha (or phonetic equivalent), a metathesis of the Hebrew Pesach (Passover).

Likewise, most European langauges use the term Nativity (Nativitas, Navidad, Xristouyenna, Natale, etc) for the Feast of Christmas.

As the translators of the KJV asked, "Has the Kingdom of God now become words and syllables?"
---Cluny on 10/21/09


A holiday is not written in stone. A holiday is a CULTURAL thing. It celebrates whatever the celebrants SAY it does!
---Donna66 on 10/20/09

Thank you Donna.

ANY day designed to celebrate God's goodness, the birth or resurrection of his son is a good day.
So what if pagan hijack Christmas. Pagans will always hijack that meant to be good.

Pagan fight like hell to be with relatives on Thanksgiving and have no idea why. To be thankful to whom for what? The holiday was originally called Thanksgiving to God but again hijacked by Pagans.

Thanks again Donna and btw, Happy Thanksgiving.
---larry on 10/20/09


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Rhonda ... "Maybe the correct way to ask the question is where is the evidence christ-mas(s) celebrates a "birth"?"

Well, Rhonda, let's answer that ... Every Christian who celebrates Christmas ( & I know you don't) celebrates the birth of Christ. That to my simple mind is ample evidence that at Christmas we celebrate the birth of Christ. Even if it is the wrong date.

Now, perhaps you can answer my question ... "You, Rhonda, claim that Christmas celebrates of the Death Of Christ. Can you provide any evidence of that?"

Which Christian do you know who celebrates the death of Christ at Christmas? Which Christian ever celebrated the death of Christ at Christmas?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/20/09


\\And there are no biblical text that show any celebration of Jesus birthday after his death.\\

There are as many Biblical texts authorizing the celebration of the birth of Jesus as there are Biblical texts authorizing you to use computer blogs to express your opinions, Frances.

If you condemn one, you must, by logic, cease the latter.
---Cluny on 10/20/09


There are no biblical or scriptural links between Jesus and christmas. And there are no biblical text that show any celebration of Jesus birthday after his death.
Only in the story of the wise men, and the shepherders do we see anyone " celebrating" his birth. But historically and biblically the December 25th birthday is not linked to Jesus but rather to Tamsus ( son of Nimrod)
Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north, and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

We have too many heathen feast in our religion
---Francis on 10/20/09


//Maybe the correct way to ask the question is where is the evidence Christ-mas(s) celebrates a "birth"?
---Rhonda on 10/19/09 //

The evidence is everywhere. In December do you see signs saying "Happy Saturnalia"? Or "Happy Birthday, Nimrod" What are all the nativity (nativity, meaning "birth") scenes about, with a baby people call Jesus? What is the theme of traditional Christmas Carols? (minus Frosty the Snowman type.) The signs say "Merry Christmas" which is a strong indicator that most people don't associate Christmas with death.

A holiday is not written in stone. A holiday is a CULTURAL thing. It celebrates whatever the celebrants SAY it does!
---Donna66 on 10/20/09


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Rhonda ... "Mass is a death sacrifice" YOUR Definition. You say that Christmas celebrates Christs death, because that is what mass means. Nonsense

Look in Wikipaedia for the definitions of
Michaelmas ... death of Michael? No, the feast of St Michael the great archangel
Lammas .. (Lamm means loaf) the death of the loaf? No, celebration of the harvest
Candlemas ... the death of candles? No the feast of the purification of Mary

You may not approve of these festive days, but they show that Christmas does NOT mean Death of Christ.

As for your claim that Jews did not celebrate birthdays ... what about Barmizvah?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/20/09


Cliff ... We all know that the date is that of the old pagan festivities.

We know too that it is probably not the actual time of the year when Jesus was born anyway.

We know that it was "taken over" by Christians as a convenient (if inaccurate and unnecessary) way of introducing a celebration of His birth.

But that is not the question I asked ... which related to what Christians celebrate at Christmas time? His birth, or his death, as Rhonda maintains?

(and it is no longer the same day of the years as it was anyway ... remember what happened in 1752?)
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/20/09


Someone once said that most people have very little actual knowledge of history, but definite ideas about it.

This especially applies to Church history.
---Cluny on 10/20/09


No! Christmas in its truth is to be happy of the birth of our Messiah
---catherine on 10/20/09


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Alan, Actually it celebrates the death and resurrection of Nimrod.
The death is symbolised by the Yule log (a tree stripped and burned)
The resurrection is symbolised by the beautifully decorated Christmas tree ,next morning! the holly,carolling, gift giving all part of Saturnalia, combined with the feast of the winter Solstice!
The 25th of December was Nimrod's birthday!
---1st_cliff on 10/19/09


iam not sure what you are asking.dec 24th as far as I know was chosen to really appease pagans who were titering with christianity and church leaders wanted them to eventually join the church.It was a time of year that they celebrated.The exact time of year of christ death is well documented in the gospels,and it aint dec 24th.
---tom2 on 10/19/09


Maybe the correct way to ask the question is where is the evidence christ-mas(s) celebrates a "birth"?
---Rhonda on 10/19/09


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