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Forced Into Good Works

Are we to force ourselves to do good works or are good works the result increased faith and it is not we who are doing them but Him through us?

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 ---Chris on 10/25/09
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Exzucuh, you are right, sin does not enter heaven. Thank Christ for that. So when you die, if you are saved, you will not be able to sin anymore. Isn't that great that you died? No more sin. And the sins you made while alive were taken care of at the Cross, for you received eternal redemption. Now isn't that all great. If they hadn't you would be going to hell. Now that would be terrible. So, praise God He choose you, give thank to Jesus Christ our Lord for dying on the cross for your sins and who "will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 1:79
---MarkV. on 2/1/10


---MarkV. on 2/1/10 You have to be sinless, white as snow to enter Heaven. Sin cannot enter there. All sinners will be cast into hell. You have to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus, that blood has to be applied. But the blood cannot be applied to those that rebel against the teaching of the gospel. That blood is applied by faith. Faith that get's the blood applied is believing Jesus is the Son of God and repenting of all unrighteousness by being sorry truly from your heart and even making restitution for evil you have done.faith that gets the blood applied is obeying Jesus to be baptized in his name for the remission of sin's and God will give you the Holy Spirit that will help you endure to the end.
---exzucuh on 2/1/10


Donna66, you clairified it very good. Exzucuh, Ruben have the same doctrine. The doctrine of works together with the works of Christ. A little help to Christ as if He needed our help. For the RCC it worked perfect, they got to invent Purgatory, and the sell of indulgences for the remission of sins. The worship of saints for the good works they did in life.
If one has to be sinless to enter heaven, no one will enter. Thoughts of sin comes to one's mind. Pride is one that seems to never leave us. Jealousy, greed, lust, anger at our brothers/sisters. Sins we don't even realize we are doing. That is not even counting the sins of Omission, times when we could help someone and didn't. We need Christ to be save. Our works cannot save us.
---MarkV. on 2/1/10


---Donna66 on 1/31/10 I believe that Jesus work on the cross is sufficient and it does not matter what I believe it is fact. But what is also fact is that you have to have faith for that blood to be applied.

Acts 15:8-9 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

True faith is always action taken by the believer to obey the word that is delivered to them. If we hear the word to confess we confess or the word be baptized we get baptized. But faith is only faith that is acted upon.
---exzucuh on 1/31/10


exzucuh---I don't disagree with anything you say, except that I believe Christ's one-time sacrifice on the cross is sufficient for any sin a Christian may commit..even unknowingly.

I suspected my post would need clarification. Obedience is an obligation for the Christion. But sometimes what we think are "good works" may not be so "good" in God's eyes. Men look at the outside (of a man). God looks at the heart. Consider:
I Cor 13:3b... and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
---Donna66 on 1/31/10




exzucuh -- oops! I hit the "submit" button before I was quite through.

I'm not talking about avioding sin. That we must do even if it is difficult.
"Forcing" ourselves, as Christians, to do "good works" may please ouselves and others. But unless these acts are motivated spontaneosly by the Holy Spirit within, I doubt they are very pleasing to God.
---Donna66 on 1/31/10


---Donna66 on 1/30/10 And maybe you do not understand thou shalt not. Like the rest of the ungodly world. You have freewill but you have no choice. If you break the Law of God the wages of sin is death.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted ----worthy to obtain---- that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments, and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Christians are accountable for sin they commit and will be Judged now or later.

---exzucuh on 1/31/10


I think this is a good question, not an ignorant one. Sometimes we force the "good" (as we interpret it) to take the place of the "better", which is being led by God's Holy Spirit.

Phl 2:13 for it is GOD who works in you to WILL and to ACT according to his good purpose. (caps mine, for emphasis)

I Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Following God is not reasy, but
"forced" good works may not be as "good" as we imagine.
---Donna66 on 1/30/10


This is truly an ignorant question. first of all I do not know what you are referring to as good works. If you do not do the works of faith
commanded by God you will not be saved. So it will not matter what your works are.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do, because I go unto my Father.

WE are to do the same works Jesus did. and obey the Father.
---exzucuh on 1/30/10


Lee1538 * (Eph. 2:8-10) but to restore their fellowship with the Lord .

Ok, but if we do not confess our sins as 1JHN1: 9 tells us we have no fellowship with our Lord and our Salvation is in danger!

Lee1538 * a member of the family, if you do something that displeases them, you merely foul up any relationship you have with them.

But like the Podigal Son if we do not repent and return back to the Father we are than "dead"(LK 15:24) to him!

Lee1538 * Salvation is something that is partially in your own hands.

Jesus did his part we must cooperate with his grace with repenting of our sins daily, as Peter ask Jesus how many times do I need to forgive my Brothers, Jesus said 70 times 70!
---Ruben on 1/27/10




Ruben //So, believers do not have to confess their sins at all because Christ did that for us at the cross!

Believers confess their sins not for the salvation they already have received as a gift (Eph. 2:8-10) but to restore their fellowship with the Lord and to receive whatever blessings He may have for them.

It is much like your relationship with your parents, while you are a member of the family, if you do something that displeases them, you merely foul up any relationship you have with them.

Of course, this view conflicts with the Roman church view that salvation is something that is partially in your own hands.
---Lee1538 on 1/26/10


Mima, Great point you brought up. The reason I said what I did was to point out we are not there for Judgment. The one's standing before the Lord are those who rebelled against God, the unbelievers are the one's standing in judgment. The one's who knew God but did not honor Him as God. Of course we are with the Lord even now, that matter is a no brainer. In fact since the Lord is Omnipresent He is everywhere.
---MarkV. on 1/26/10


The believers are not present at that Judgment because their sins have already been taken care of at the Cross. "For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ" They to will be judge at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" but they will be judge for rewards, not for punishment.
Hope that helps you.
---MarkV. on 1/26/10

So, believers do not have to confess their sins at all because Christ did that for us at the cross!

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us"(1 JHN 1:9-10)
---Ruben on 1/26/10


MarkV I believe that first Thessalonians 4:17
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Proves that believers will be at the great white throne judgment, notice the phrase "And so shall we be with the Lord forever" now we know that the lard is the judge at the great white throne judgment so if believers are to be with him forever they would seemingly be at the great white throne judgment also. In what capacity, certainly not be judged, perhaps as witnesses against the unbelievers.
---mima on 1/26/10


"For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ" " but they will be judge for rewards, not for punishment.
Hope that helps you.
---MarkV. on 1/26/10

Works play a part even to believers:


"Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile, But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"(Romans 2:5-10)
---Ruben on 1/26/10


Ruben, of course, the unbelievers at the Great White Throne of Judgment will be judge by their works. What they did in their rebellion against God. And they will be judge righteously.
The believers are not present at that Judgment because their sins have already been taken care of at the Cross. "For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ" They to will be judge at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" but they will be judge for rewards, not for punishment.
Hope that helps you.
---MarkV. on 1/26/10


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We know there were at least two books, the book of life and the book of works. "And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things written in the books." they will have no excuse as to their rebellion against God.
"And anyone not found written in the book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

---MarkV. on 1/25/10


They will be judge according to their works by the thing written in the books . Again works play a part on each books!
---Ruben on 1/25/10


Ruben, the book of life was there along with the book of works. Rev. 20:11-15. Did you not read the whole passage? "And books (plural) were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things that were written in the books"
We know there were at least two books, the book of life and the book of works. "And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things written in the books." they will have no excuse as to their rebellion against God.
"And anyone not found written in the book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."
---MarkV. on 1/25/10


May I do something on here, Jesus, while I am here, because later I have to clean the rugs, again?
---catherine on 1/25/10


Please excuse me! It is God working through us. Sounds easy, doesn't it? Well, it's not. I don't know how people are making it, With their attitudes. I am surprise that everyone isn't shooting each other. People are angry when you are happy. and people are angry when you are cruel, doing bad stuff. I said to Jesus one day, "I love you"! "He said, For now". So anyways, God has me living with a person who is posessed by the devil, himself. I am serious. The hardest job I have had yet. Don't know what I'm gonna do. Nothing I guess. Wait until God delivers me.
---catherine on 1/24/10


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Maybe a little of both. I realize that we don't always feel like doing the sacrificial thing in some situations but since we are created for good works, then in those cases I would rather force myself to obey and to do the right thing. It is also true that the closer we get to God, the more we want to serve and to please Him. We can love because He first loved us.
---jody on 1/22/10


MarkV.* Ruben, Revelation 20:12 is speaking about "The Great White Throne of Judgment" Where all of those who rejected Christ or those who rebelled against God will go to stand before the Lord and God will read their sins and they will be judge accordingly to their sinful works. This judgment seat is not for believers.

Mark Rev 20:12 reads "which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works" How can "Book of Life" be for unbelievers? And where does it say for thier sinful works only?
---Ruben on 1/22/10


Ruben, Revelation 20:12 is speaking about "The Great White Throne of Judgment" Where all of those who rejected Christ or those who rebelled against God will go to stand before the Lord and God will read their sins and they will be judge accordingly to their sinful works. This judgment seat is not for believers.
All genuine believers go before "The Judgment Seat of Christ" which is spoken of in 2 Cor. 5:9-11. Better known as "Bema" seat. These passages describe metaphorically to the place where the Lord will sit to evaluate believers lives for the purpose of given them eternal rewards. Sin is not dealt there because it was dealt with on the Cross so we are not talking about sin but of rewards.
---MarkV. on 1/22/10


""I think you use the practices of the RCC."

---MarkV. on 11/24/09


And we(RCC) use the practices of Jesus Christ:

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then HE SHALL REWARD EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS."(Matthew 7:27)

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."

How do you come to the conclusion that works play no part?
---Ruben on 1/22/10


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In this world, there is both LIGHT and DARKNESS. We notice what is "light" by comparing it to it's contrast/opposite ("darkness"), but in God, there is no darkness to compare light to, there is only light.

1 John 1:5
"God is LIGHT, and in Him there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL".

It's the same thing with righteousness ("good works"). If you believe that peace and harmony are logical (for peaceful coexistence) and that EVIL is illogical (it prevents peaceful coexistence), then doing the right thing is not 'labor-intensive' (work), but if you are rebellious by nature, then you must FORCE yourself to "OBEY".

In God, there is no 'other way' than RIGHT/LIGHT.
---more_excellent_way on 1/21/10


Jack B, your example was made even more clear with the answer Nana gave. He believes in the practices of the RCC which is works, and by hearing what we were saying, he say's to me,
""I think you use the practices of the RCC."

I think you use the practices of a low life."


Here is axactly what you were talking about. One who is proud about his works, yet his works are but filth towards another. And wants to be able to use both of them, works that are filth, and works that are good to gain enternance to the Kingdom of God.
---MarkV. on 11/24/09


"I think you use the practices of the RCC."


I think you use the practices of a low life.
---Nana on 11/24/09


Jack B, that was a very good example of the conduct or attitude of two individual Christians. The humble and the proud. Thank you brother for the example. That is why God gets all the glory.
---MarkV. on 11/23/09


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There are 2 'truths' to that answer, Chris, and it varies on which type of Christian you ask.

1. The proud Christian man: one who believes at judgement day he will impress Jesus Christ with his adherance to Gods law and his good works and therefore be allowed to enter therein

2. The humble Christian man: one that knows he will never be worthy of salvation and relies upon Gods grace in Jesus Christ to get him through

One truth has 100s of scriptures to back it up, the other a few dozen.

One of these men will exalt himself all the days of his life, and be judgemental to other brothers in Christ. The other man will lift up Jesus Christ.

Which do you think is right in the eyes of God?
---JackB on 11/21/09


Nana, what 2 Tim.2:21 is talking about does not mean that if you do good works you will become a vessel of honor. You are taking that verse out of context because the context speaks of something totally different. I think you use the practices of the RCC.
V. 19 says "The Lord knows who are His, and let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity"
Everything God has ordained will come to pass. If you had read verse 1:9 in 2 Tim. You would have known that already.
"Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began"
---MarkV. on 11/21/09


"God commands us to grap ahold of all He has to offer, and shows you that without Him you are nothing but a vessel of clay for dishonor."
---MarkV. on 11/20/09
Quite the contrary,
2 Timothy 2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
"If a man therefore purge himself from these..."
"If a man therefore purge himself from these..."
"If a man therefore purge himself from these..."
---Nana on 11/21/09


There is no one good of himself for everything good comes from above, Righteousness come from Christ, holiness comes from God. What does God command us? to be Holy, to be righeous, to be good, and where do we get all of them, from God. No one is holy of himself, no one righteous of himself, no one is good of himself. It all comes from God. If anything is not of faith, it is sin. God commands us to grap ahold of all He has to offer, and shows you that without Him you are nothing but a vessel of clay for dishonor.
---MarkV. on 11/20/09


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With natural behavior there is no forcing: either a person is naturally good, or else a person is naturally not good. He Commands us, Be Good, Be Holy, Be Righteous, and he would not command you if it were not possible for you to do. Like a parent telling little Johnny or little Janie, "Be Good!" So the child heeds their parent becasue they know that it would be foolish to say, "Papa and Momma, I cannot be good because I am not able to be good, I can only be bad because you made me this way." No, the child will not say this, because then they know they will be judged harshly or punished with some pain for, 1- disobeying, and 2- blaming the parent for their own disobedience.
---Eloy on 11/19/09


Mt12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

God makes the bad tree good (also see Isa 55:13)

Lu22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

As we grow in grace and are converted to the truth we tend to become better Christians.
---trey on 11/18/09


As a general rule I pray before doing much of anything. Because, I need God's help, His strength and His power. It is God working through us. Lets give Him all the praise and the glory, and the credit.
---catherine on 10/29/09


we should task ourselves to doing what is right

however we should know that even the desire to do good works comes from the Father and the ability to do it also comes from Him.

It doesn't mean we should not make the effort
---patie3447 on 10/29/09


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Miche, that was a great answer. Only through Christ can we do works that glorify Him, for all good things come from above. Peace
---MarkV. on 10/29/09


Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
---Bob on 10/26/09


Today, are God's people with faith in the power of the Holy Spirit, Christ, walking to be like the living example of Christ? He has the manners and mindset of the Torah/law!!

Or are God's people a living example of a Torah less, lawless false Christ?

Do Christians ask themselves in situations of their life, what would Christ do?

Since your savior was the Living Torah, would He not respond to the situations of life according to the mindset and manners of Torah?

Dear friend do you try to deal with life situations, even as He did? Or has the law being done away with, because of bad teachers?

What is the impact to your life for being lawless? Please repent or else Matthew 7:21
---Paul9594 on 10/26/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, There's no 'Forcing' of anything Matt.12:35, b/c from the abundance of the Heart our mouth speaks and where the Heart is Drawn the body shall soon follow!

The Path of the Just is as a Shining Light, Shining more & more unto that Perfect Day. While the way of the wicked is as darkness, not knowing what they stumble at that's defiling them : which is all that proceeds from their evil heart.

It's our Heart that's immediately changed upon accepting Jesus as our Lord & Savior. The Just having Ears which Hear, attend to God's Drawing Spirit & His Word is Life unto them & Health to their flesh b/c it's always in the midst of their Hearts & doesn't depart from before their Eyes.
---Shawn.M.T. on 10/26/09


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We are to do the "works of God" (John 6:28 and 9:3) by letting them be "manifest in" us so that we simply rest/relax inside Jesus's body as a spirit creation (new creation). Now, JESUS is our sabbath rest (our sanctuary, no more sabbath DAY, Luke 6:5). In their lifetime, the Israelites never had Jesus as their sabbath rest...

Hebrews 4:3
"'They shall never enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world".

The goodness that we do should be from OUR spirit/countenance and then our spirit will be compatible with God's spirit...

Philemon 1:14
"of your own free will"....(the kingdom must first be INNER).


Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 10/26/09


Sometimes, we have to make a deliberate choice and act of will to do what is right, even if our flesh is repulsed by the idea--such as performing an act of charity for someone who has wronged us.

Is this "forcing ourselves?" Then, yes, sometimes we have to out of obedience to Jesus.

Matthew 25 does NOT say anywhere, "I was hungry, naked, homeless, thirsty, sick, or imprisoned, and I relieved My own wants through you," or "...And I make you take care of Me."

Rather, it says, "I was hungry, and YOU fed Me." (Apply the rest, changing verbs as needed.)
---Cluny on 10/26/09


well for one thing, the catholic church associate works with faith.

remember the verse

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
---mike on 10/26/09


Good works are the result of increased Faith and it is not we who are doing them but Christ working through us who does them.
We can do nothing without Christ.
And all things are possible with Christ.
---miche3754 on 10/26/09


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No, we shouldn't force ourselves to be peaceful and just to other people (Godly), nor should we force ourselves to love God.

Many people have always preferred to have a "book devotion" instead of a 'love devotion' even though GOD IS LOVE(the "GREATEST of these", 1 Corinthians 13:13).

Before Jesus was glorified (John 7:39), people still used books in their attempt to be Godly, but now our spirit is to be a loving one (non violent....PEACE)...

Matthew 11:12
"until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force" (inner kingdom).

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with OUR SPIRIT that we are children of God".
---more_excellent_way on 10/25/09


"...are good works the result increased faith and it is not we who are doing them but Him through us?" Exactly.
We can not "do" good works, for there is none good but God, we simply show forth the good works of the Father. For without Him we could do nothing. In the words of Jesus "Many good works have I shewed you from my Father. Therefore Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." "Arise, shine, for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee." And "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
---Josef on 10/25/09


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