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Does God Change

Many christians eat swine, and do not rest on the sabbath. Those two things have been spoken of by God. Did God change? What does it mean that God is an unchanging God?

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Command 5, enforced by God, before Moses Mount Sinai :
"Adam, the son of God" (Luke 3:38),
"Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and eaten from the tree of which I(Father) commanded you, SAYING, 'You shall not eat it of it": Cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17).
Honor Father, dont obey anybody else contradicting what your Father said! Illustrating, Honor your parents.
With faith in Christ keep Ten, your starting point or else Hear Matthew 7:21-23
Cursed Ground, He turns into a blessing of land, for those who obey this commandment with Faith In Christ (Ex 20:12, Deut 5:16). What faith before Christ? Yes!
PHYSICAL PROMISE TO LAND, foreshadows HEAVEN, if you have Faith!
---Paul9594 on 11/20/09


Commandment 4: Sabbath before mount Sinai!

Some, learning/teaching from commentaries, institutions not of Father, justify not observing Ten Commandments, because were not enjoined in Bible prior to Mount Sinai (EXODUS 20:2-17).
Scripture prove ALL Ten, before codified on Mount Sinai.

Commandment 4: on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested ." (Gen 2:2-3).

"Tomorrow is a SABBATH rest, a holy SABBATH to the LORD...So the people rested on the seventh day" (Ex 16:23,30). (TRANSLATION FAITHFUL TO HEBREW NUMERIC VALUE)

Your starting point The Ten, or else Hear Matthew 7:21-23!
---Paul9594 on 11/20/09


I know Markv, I apologized to you on another blog.
I realized after I had posted that we were essentially saying the same thing.
I offer my apologies to you for that mistake.
By the way, I was not arguing with you.
I never argue with you. You just don't understand salvation is for all mankind.
Not my fault, but I pray that God opens your eyes to his truth and not Calvin's.
By the way, how do you reconcile the two?
How is it you believe God loves all mankind but hates sin, then say God only died for the elect?
You and I both know that Christ died for the sins of the world because he says so. So, why do you put the two together when one is the and the other is a lie?
---miche3754 on 11/20/09


Miche, Please read my answer again and again so that you can learn something today instead of arguing about God as you do over an over. It is written in English, maybe not perfect but well enough to be understood.
---MarkV. on 11/20/09


Markv,
If God didn't change his mind, then why aren't those who keep torah BUT not Christ going to heaven?
Why are they condemned in their sins?
In the OT, all man had to do was repent, and that was working.
BUT NOW We have Christ. And to be saved and have eternal life we must be in Christ.
That looks like God changed his mind to me.
Didn't God change his mind about you?
Didn't he forgive your sins and throw them into the sea of forgetfullness and not bring them back up in your face ever again?
You must remember that it is God's love towards man that has never changed. God changes his actions to what ever he wants and when he wants.
How can you say God can do what ever and then limit him with your words?
---miche3754 on 11/20/09




Worth repeating, God never changes, period. His nature, character and attributes remains the same yesterday, today and forever.
In the case of God changing his mind, it is because of His attitude towards sin, His attitude toward sin and righteousness is unchanging. When dealing with men He must change His attitude as men turns from sin to repentance. His character remains the same, but His dealings with men change as they change from the position that is hateful to His unchanging hatred of sin, to one that is pleasing to His unchanging love of righteousness.
In most passages where that happens, the word "if" is included. God already knows what decision is going to be made.
---MarkV. on 11/20/09


What does it mean that God is an unchanging God?

I believe what this means is God's love for man. It is his love for us that has not changed and will never change.
Now can he change his mind? Yes he can and he did.
Think about it. Before God decided to set aside his wrath, we were all dead in our sins because we could not please God. We were stuck in these old fleshly sinning bodies with no way to be reconciled back to God.
After Christ came, the veil was rent in twain and we could get back to God through Christ be reconciled with our Holy Father.
Think about what would be if God had not changed his mind.
---miche3754 on 11/20/09


Paul, read Hebrews chapter 8.
God cut off the old covenant and made us a new and better one through Jesus Christ.
If God had not made the first one old and changed it, how could he have sent Christ and why?
Doesn't the word say that we cannot put old wine in new wine skins? Matt.9:17, Mark 2:22, Luk 5:37
Doesn't it say that we can't sew a new cloth on and old robe? Mark 2:21
God meant by these that a simple patch to fix what man had torn asunder would not work.
He had to cut the old covenant off for there to be a new one. God had to change his mind about man to give man a new and better covenant. Before Christ we could not have eternal life. NOW in Christ, we can. God had to destroy the old vessel and and make us a new one.
---miche3754 on 11/20/09


Physical purification in Torah teaches Spiritual process with FAITH IN Christ, Numbers 19:

1. unclean person must decide to avail themselves for
water of purification.
2. Sprinkling (by person who was clean and authorized)
3. Wash their clothes and bathe THEMSELVES.

Spiritual work with FAITH Christ:

1. With faith decide avail ourselves for the purifying work of Christ. (We dont choose method of purifying, already decided.)
2. Faith in blood of Christ to remove our sins.
3. With faith apply (bathe) ourselves by CONTINUING to work
out salvation as INSTRUCTED by Word. (e.g. washing
of the water with the Word, KEEPING COMMANDMENTS)

Match Torah instructions with Christ or hear Matthew 7:21!
---Paul9594 on 11/19/09


Commandment 1, No Gods but me, before Sinai!

"I am Almighty God, walk BEFORE ME and be blameless" (Gen 17:1), "Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves" (Gen 35:2). "and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute JUDGMENT: I am the LORD" (Ex 12:12).

" I know that the LORD is GREATER than all the gods, for in the very thing in which they behaved proudly, He was ABOVE them" (Ex 18:11).

"This also would be an iniquity deserving of JUDGMENT, for I would have denied God who is above" (Job 31:28). "Then Job answered the LORD and said, 'I know that you can do everything, And that no purpose of yours can be withheld from you'" (Job 42:1-2).
---Paul9594 on 11/19/09




Commandment 2, No graven images and spiritual intent no Idols in your heart, love god:

"'Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves'...So they gave(graven images) Jacob all the foreign gods which were in their hands, and the earrings which were in their ears and Jacob hid them" (Gen 35:2,4).

"If I have observed the sun when it shines, or the moon moving in its brightness, my heart has been secretly enticed, and my mouth has kissed my hand, This also ..an iniquity deserving of JUDGMENT, For I would have denied God who is above" (Job 31:27-28) (this is idolatry in your heart, money etc).

With faith in Christ keep commandments, wash with Word obedience to it! Or Hear Matthew 7:21!
---Paul9594 on 11/19/09


Commandment 3, dont use His name in vain, nor spiritually misrepresent His name with men precepts not in Word!:

"It may be that my sons have sinned and kneel/bless (other) God IN their HEARTS" (Job 1:5). Most Faithful Hebrew numeric

"Curse God and die!" (Job 2:9).

Interesting, righteous are not to be cursed, "And I will curse him who curses you" (Gen 12:3).

"nor shall you PROFANE, PROFANE, PROFANE, the name of your God...for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled" (Lev 18:21,27).

Keep His commandments faith in Christ or Hear Matthew 7:21

Or is your faith powerless, when connected to true Christ?
---Paul9594 on 11/19/09


Trav, it is hermeneutics 101 that a word's meaning is determined by its specific context, not by its meaning in all contexts.

1.Why spend decades building an Ark for a local Flood?---Warwick on 11/18/09

Well witnesses and plain old common sense tell us a couple of other things. Men substitute words to further their understanding or audience. Witnesses overide specific appearing contexts when doubtful.
1. You ask questions when you should reasearch. But, for those who might see.
The area would have been over 400,000sq miles. Hardly walk out herding the animals of area. More importantly GOD told them to do it. Noah was perfect in his Generations. By implication.....
---Trav on 11/19/09


Genesis 7:19 says '...all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered." As the flood waters had risen above the tops of the 'high mountains' ..
---Warwick on 11/18/09

This means the water level would have been five miles above present sea level. Water pressure would about 800 tons per square inch. Ten months of this pressure, a lack of light and mixture of salt water, would have destroyed all plant life/seeds on the planet. Entire life cycle, which depends on plants, would have ended, yet the animals released obviously found vegetation to eat.

We have even gotten to the food required. Extinct animals. Civilizations that marched through the flood period.
---Trav on 11/19/09


Mal3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

1Ch16:34 O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever.

The sons of Jacob are the Lord's people. Be glad he doesn't change.

Thank you Lord that your mercy endures forever. Thanks be to Christ for his perfect work of salvation!
---trey on 11/18/09


Paul - Scripture prove all Ten Commandments in Bible before codified on Mount Sinai.

Please give references for ALL TEN. I agree I should not have included the Sabbath in my previous comment.

And please show me how we get from the Levitical priesthood to the priesthood of Jesus Christ, or do you think you are still under the Levitical priesthood? Numbers 18 is the law establishing the Levitcal priesthood and that LAW was never changed.
---Gary on 11/18/09


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God does not change, but you had better be glad He has changed his dealings with mankind or most of our church peopl would be dead. read Acts 5:1-10
---michael on 11/18/09


You say YHVH doesnt change, but then say right after that He has changed???? Which one is it??? YHVH hasnt changed, its the so called churches who have changed Him. They have gotten rid of His Laws, and claimed the law is only for the Jews. Even though YHVH says its for all. So the churches are still in trouble period.
---wayne on 11/18/09


Gary 1/2:
Funny, you say Im avoiding you. You didnt answer any of my questions refuting your reasoning of Scripture!

The Christ is expressed decisively in the TORAH, Writings, expanded in the Prophets in accord with the principle of progressive revelation.

The term Messiah is for the divine positions particularly those of prophet, High Priest, and king, the greater embodiment of these offices by a distinctly predicted Anointed. The Greatest Prophet spoken of by Moses (Deut. 18:15), the unending Priesthood of Melchizedek (Gen. 14:18-20), and the eternally enthroned seed of David (2 Sam. 7:12-16, 23:1-3, 5) merge within the growing development of the Christ Priesthood. Ultimately LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD/SAFCRICES SPEAK OF CHRIST.
---Paul9594 on 11/18/09


Gary, SAID, no Sabbath law before Mount Sinai! Is this true?

Some, learning/teaching from commentaries, institutions not of Father, justify not observing Ten Commandments, because Ten were not enjoined in Bible prior to Mount Sinai (EXODUS 20:2-17). Scripture prove all Ten Commandments in Bible before codified on Mount Sinai.

Commandment 4: on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested ." (Gen 2:2-3).

Sabbath before Sinai!

"Tomorrow is a SABBATH rest, a holy SABBATH to the LORD...So the people rested on the seventh day" (Ex 16:23,30). (TRANSLATION FAITHFUL TO HEBREW NUMERIC VALUE)
---Paul9594 on 11/18/09


God does not change, but you had better be glad He has changed his dealings with mankind or most of our church peopl would be dead. read Acts 5:1-10
---michael on 11/18/09


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Paul9594 - You remind me of some SDA friends of mine. You avoid answering direct questions but continue spitting a false gospel.
---Gary on 11/17/09


I'm in the Spirit of the Law, love, mercy, faith:

Obedience to our Father, this is how we show love for Him.

I walk after His Torah meaning teachings, instructions.

Loving my neighbor:

I tell them not to eat pork/unclean animals they suppress their immune system and are toxic for their body, but especially pig meat!

Adam being disobedient to Him, see how our Father feels about it:

Hosea 6:7 But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.


Use ASV 99% percent of the time Is faithful to Hebrew/Greek numeric, ASV translated once.

KJV translated at least16 times. How many times does it take for God to get it right?
---Paul9594 on 11/17/09


Paul, you are as was said still under the Law. In fact, the way you explain things the Law still brings condemnation to you. Food, Sabbath and probably many other laws that were in effect under the law are still applicable to you, that is why I am saying you are under the condemnation of the law.
All who are lost are under the law. That is why they are heading to hell unless Christ pays their debt against God for their breaking of the law. Only the works of Christ can clear their debt. If Christ does not clear it, they remain under the Law. Their rest is on the Sabbath and not in Christ. Have you thought about making a commitment to Christ? It does not mean you don't follow the law, but that the law cannot condemn you anymore.
---MarkV. on 11/17/09


Paul, I know there is only one kind of christian, but I see you using the word Torah, can you explain from what denomination you are from? you don't have to answer of course if you don't want to.
---Bobby1 on 11/16/09


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Indeed it is Love that teaches a child, 'Do not eat those berries, only eat from these..., etc'
Of course God changes, just like a Father changes his original plans to accomodate the wellbeing and comfort of his children:
Jeremiah 18:8: "If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them."
---Nana on 11/16/09


The Torah is the foundational revelation about the nature of the Holy One and His redemptive dealings with mankind. Therefore, we should expect the Torah to address every essential doctrine (II Tim 3:16). There is not one subject pertaining to our faith that doesn't have its foundation in the Torah. There is one catch, though. Since the Holy One chose to reveal His plan progressively, the Torah does not present each doctrine in clear, concise, and complete detail. The Torah uses types, shadows and pictures to teach many of its most important lessons.

Furthermore, the details of these doctrines are presented piecemeal, in a seemingly random orderhere a little, there a little (Isaiah 28:9-10)
---Paul9594 on 11/16/09


Paul9594--

Jhn 10:7-9 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

JESUS IS the DOOR. Most Jews didn't recognize Him as such (and still don't)
Those who entered by HIM, whether or not they were familiar with the Law, whether the lived in Kenya or Kyrgyzstan or Kentucky..were and are SAVED.
---Donna66 on 11/16/09


God has no beginning and no ending, He can know no change. He is everlastingly "the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning" James 1:17.
He is Immutable in His essence. His nature and being are infinite, and so, subject to no mutation. There never was a time when He was not, and there will never come a time when He shall cease to be. For He say's "I am the Lord, I change not" Mal. 3:6. He only can say, "I am that I am" He is altogether uninfluence by time. There is more then this small part of God that it would take many books to put down who He is and even then you would never finish. That is what it means that God is an unchanging God.
---MarkV. on 11/16/09


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Paul9594 - How do you get to the priesthood of Jesus Christ?

The Levitical priesthood was established by the Mosaic law. Aaron was high priest per the law. The sons of Aaron were the serving priests, by law. The priesthood was supported by tithes by law. God gave the tithe to the Levities, for ever. The law stated the duties of the Levites and the priests. The law NEVER changed to allow a high priest from the tribe of Judah.

The priesthood of Jesus was established without law, without any laws governing it or financing it.

The ONLY WAY we can recognize the priesthood of Jesus is to CANCEL THE LAW. Otherwise, we are still under the Levitical priesthood.
---Gary on 11/15/09


Donna66,Gary:

John 10:1 verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the DOOR into the FOLD OF THE SHEEP, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 10:16 And OTHER sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they SHALL BECOME ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD.

Christ said there is only one flock! Not jUDAISM/Christian FLOCKS

Is not one flock has one teaching and the flock another! One flock one shepherd!

Better check through which (Christ)door youre entering, through a false Christ, a lawless one?

We become into ONE shepherd, showing we should be teaching same as Christ and not TEACHINGS OF apostates!
---Paul9594 on 11/15/09


Paul9594--- I'm not arguing AGAINST rest, or even a day of rest every week. I'm just saying I don't believe it is a requirement for Christians to observe any particular day for that.

//Love teaches you eating pork or unclean animals are toxic for body, suppresses immune system, making you more susceptible to ailments,//

I don't believe "love" teaches this , nor that SCIENCE supports it.
In fact, there is ABUNDANT evidence to the contrary.
Pork can cause trichinosis (a parasitic disease) if not cooked thoroughly. I believe that's why God forbade the early Hebrews from eating it (There was no USDA then either).

Again, avoid pork if you please, but I don't believe it is a command of God to do so.
---Donna66 on 11/15/09


Donna66: TheTWO greatest commandments about love, what does either of these have to do with eating pork or keeping the Sabbath?

Love teaches you eating pork or unclean animals are toxic for body, suppresses immune system, making you more susceptible to ailments, especially with food being manipulated in ways not beneficial for the human body!

Dont we give good instructions to our children about good and bad food, out of love?

Besides THESE there is MORE about the Sabbath:

REST, isnt work without rest bad for you? This is why your Fathers says rest.
Breaking the Torah= teachings/instructions is sin 1John 3:4

IN PART, these IS WHY Christ LINKS TWO Greatest commandments of love, with Law and the Prophets!
---Paul9594 on 11/15/09


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Donna66 - Paul9594 doesn't understand that God's covenant with Abraham was for Abraham, and that God's covenant with Israel was for Israel, and that God's covenant with us is for us. He thinks everything God ever commanded to anyone applies to him.

Paul9594 is being cursed by the law, per the scriptures, but he doesn't know it. He will never experience the real blessings God has for him until he sees the truth and rejects all the false teachings.

The sad thing is, Paul9594 doesn't realize what Jesus did for us at the cross. Paul, in reality, has rejected Jesus. We need to pray for him.

I recently asked an SDA friend what happened when Jesus died on the cross. The answer I got was, gee, I guess something happened.
---Gary on 11/14/09


Jesus taught many things. His two great COMMANDMENTS (on which He said hang all the law and the prophets) have been quoted here before.

He never cautioned anyone not to eat so-called "unclean" meats. He taught that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. He never criticized anyone for not keeping the Sabbath and He, Himself, broke the established Sabbath "laws" several times.
// And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his :COMMANDMENTS.
4 WHO SAITH THAT I know him, and KEEPETH NOT His :commandments, IS A LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT in this man//
Rejecting Pork and Sabbath-keeping were not among His COMMANDMENTS.
---Donna66 on 11/14/09


Bob,Lee1538,Gary,Donna66,KarenD:

John the apostle ACTIVELY teaching in this Gospel, KNOWING the whole world is ALSO involved, teaches:

2 and HE(CHRIST) is the propitiation for our :sins, and not for :ours only, but also
FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.

3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his :COMMANDMENTS.
4 WHO SAITH THAT I know him, and KEEPETH NOT His :commandments, IS A LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT in this man,

5 but whoso KEEPETH HIS:WORD, in him hath truly the love of :God been perfected. HEREBY we know that we are IN HIM: 6 who saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as HE(CHRIST) walked.

Should we desire to walk like Christ or like the apostates teachings?
---Paul9594 on 11/13/09


If you study the Bible, you would see God (in character) does not change. But the way he deals with mankind has changed. Example Gen. chapter 2 Eat only plant life. Gen. Chapter 9 verse 3 eat anything that moves. Leviticus chapters 6 & 7 eat only certain things. three different examples of the unchanging God dealing with changing mankind. Malachi 3:6 "I am the Lord I change not"
---michael on 11/13/09


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God does not change but the covenant between God and man did change with the resurrection of Christ. We have been delivered from the bondage of the Law. Jesus did not destroy the law, but He did fulfill it. Our focus needs to be on our relationship with Jesus and FAITH in Him rather than on the Law. Jesus HATED legalism.
---jody on 11/13/09


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Hebrews 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO THY WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
---Bob on 11/11/09


"It's so simple. We are NO LONGER under the law IF we are led by The Spirit."
---Gary on 11/9/09
When that happens it is said that "we establish the law." (Rom 3:31)
What is the Law? Asside from ceremonial, it is a pattern of right conduct. Men see a Christian's footsteps before they see what guide him.
Matthew 5:16: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Why christians despise the Law is beyond me!
---Nana on 11/11/09


Paul9564 //After His resurrection a different Gospel/Law for the Gentiles?//
Does your use of "Gospel/Law" mean that you equate the two? They are certainly not interchangeable. For the Jews were given no Gospel in the OT.

Rabbinic Judaism asserts that the Laws of the Jewish Bible were presented to the Jewish people and converts to Judaism and not to gentiles, including Christians,
The Gospel describes what God does to forgive us and make us his own, independent of anything we have done. Our status as God's children does not depend upon our carrying out the requirements of the Law. The Law serves as a guide to moral behavior. The Gospel, or "good news", is possible ONLY
following the resurrection Of Jesus.
---Donna66 on 11/10/09


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This is why Rom 8:3-4 reads That the RIGHTOUSNESS of the law MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
---Pal9594 on 11/9/09

What about Rom 8:2:
Romans 8:2 (KJV)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 (ICB)
I am not judged guilty because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made me free. It made me free from the law that brings sin and death.

It's so simple. We are NO LONGER under the law IF we are led by The Spirit.
---Gary on 11/9/09


After His resurrection a different Gospel/Law for the Gentiles?

Acts1
1 first treatise (LUKE) I made, Theophilus, CONCERNING ALL that Jesus began both to DO and TEACH, 2 UNTIL THE DAY in which He was received up, after COMMANDING through the Holy Spirit

Matthew19 Go therefore, and disciple all the nations.20 teaching them to keep ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I COMMANDED YOU:

His commands are only in the Gospels.

Christ teachings uphold the Law/Prophets Matthew 5:17-20

Where in the Gospels did Christ teach/command the apostles a different doctrine/gospel to be received by Gentiles who would be grafted into the root?

Do apostates consent to Christ and His Disciples TEACHING or His Children?
---Paul9594 on 11/9/09


Donna66:
The main point is the Law was undermined BECAUSE of THE FLESH OF MEN.
But the law remains HOLY, JUST. It does bring you what is HOLY, GOOD on earth ONLY when you walk after the commandments BELIEVING, HAVING FAITH in the power of Christ TO FULFILL IT!

This is why Rom 8:3-4 reads That the RIGHTOUSNESS of the law MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God does what the Law could not do, with His son condemning the sin of many on the cross NOT the Torah/Law the consequent gift OF SALVATION. Walking after the Law, walking in the Spirit with YOUR faith In Christ! I agree, WE ALONE cannot fulfill the law ever!
---Pal9594 on 11/9/09


Did Christ follow the Law to show you, the ultimate example of the manners and MINDSET of the Spiritual son walking in the Spirit?

Or Did Christ follow the Law so we can see the pitiful example of those that walk in Spirit?

Have apostates taught the Fathers children to have a powerless faith to NOT grow in His likeness? Then Hear Matthew 7:21

Or should you have faith to ultimately fulfill the law with the power of His Spirit?

2peter 1:4
Whereby He hath granted us the precious and exceeding GREAT PROMISES, that through these ye may become partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped from the corruption
that is in the world by lust.

Does this verse begin to answer the above Questions?
---Paul9594 on 11/9/09


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Paul 9594--
I don't know if you actually look up the scripture provided for you.
In case you don't. Here are a couple:

Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

No one was ABLE to keep the law, so Jesus fulfilled the law on OUR behalf
---Donna66 on 11/9/09


Donna66, Gary:

Later, we may deal with passages where bad translation/interpretation PURPOSELY contradict what Paul said about the Law and what WE CAN DO with our FAITH in THE POWER of Christ!

Bad translations/interpretations contradict:
The Law is HOLY, Just, GOOD. Romans 7:12

Paul instructs non-Jews...Romans:
DO WE make the law of NO EFFECT BECAUSE of our faith? No, WE ESTABLISH the Law! Romans 3:31

Answer questions:
Christ is our example to follow, right?

Did Christ follow the Law so we see the ultimate example of the manners and MINDSET of what the ultimate
Spiritual son walking in the Spirit?

Or Did Christ follow the Law so we can see the pitiful example of those that walk in Spirit?
---paul9594 on 11/9/09


Paul9594 - Sorry, but the limitations of a blog doesn't give enough space since apparently you need to go back to square one. I'd have to start at the beginning and a blog just isn't the place to do that.

You ignore every single verse that tells us the law ended, was nailed to the cross, was a shadow of things to come, was a schoolteacher UNTIL Jesus came, etc. You just don't seem to understand any of it.
---Gary on 11/8/09


Donna66, Gary:

Gary said:

What is better? Being led by The Spirit, or following laws? Those who are truly led by The Spirit no longer need the law.

If following the Law WITH ITS FULL SPIRITUAL original intent, IS NOT walking in the Spirit.

Then why did Jesus fulfill the Law? So He can be seen as pitiful?

Christ was not truly led by the Spirit because He followed Law?

Even Christ cannot walk in the Spirit? SO He DOES the lesser, fulfill the Law?

Or did Jesus fulfill THE LAW because the Law is HOLY, JUST, and good?

How do we LEARN what is holy just and good?

By the precepts TAUGHT within the Law and Prophets or by precepts of the apostates?
---Paul9594 on 11/8/09


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the TWO greatest commandments about love, what does either of these have to do with eating pork or keeping the Sabbath?

Love teaches you that eating pork or unclean animals are toxic for the body, and suppress immune system, making you more susceptible to ailments, especially with our food being manipulated in ways not beneficial for the human body!

Dont we give good instructions to our children about good and bad food, out of love?

Besides THESE there is MORE about the Sabbath:

REST, isnt work without rest bad for you? This is why your Fathers says rest.
Breaking the Torah teachings/instructions is sin 1John 3:4

These IS WHY Christ LINKS THE TWO Greatest commandments of love, with Law and the Prophets
---Paul9594 on 11/8/09


NO...God is God, He is infinite or unchanging. Hebrews13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, just why we will not burn offerings. Jesus was already the Lamb Sacrificed. Sabbath, Feast....were symbolized in the person of Jesus to come. When Jesus came it was the fulfillment.

Matthew5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

---rosalie on 11/7/09


A unchanging God refers to his character as in perfection and faithfulness.

Eating swine and resting on the Sabbath is a different matter of interpretation and obediance. Besides, the Sabbath was made for man though most people act as if man was made for the Sabbath.
I am not surprised that worshipping on Saturday or veganism is a stumbling block for those who have made Saturday and vegan diets a religion unto itself while proselitizing diet over salvation.
---larry on 11/7/09


Mat 22:37-40 JESUS SAID unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the FIRST and GREAT commandment.
And the SECOND is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

Do either of these have to do with eating pork or keeping the Sabbath? No.
Do not murder, steal, lie, fornicate, YES, those are all covered by these two commandments from the lips of Jesus.
The pharisees kept the law more perfectly than anyone, but Jesus repeatedly excoriated them.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through HIM...(not law) might be saved.
---Donna66 on 11/6/09


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(Isa.3:12) As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

1 Cor.14:33) As in all the churches of the saints, {34} let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Paul teaching 45 to 65 yrs. INTO the CHUCH age, so called.

This is to keep the battle of the sexes from within the leadership of the church, for sake of peace, respect and order of things. This does not mean women are inferior, or less valuable than men as human beings.
---Paul9594 on 11/6/09


Donna66, Gary:
Luke 8:21 .and said unto them, my mother and my brethren are these which HEAR THE WORD OF GOD, AND DO IT.

John 12:48 He that REJECTS me, and RECEIVES not my words, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, the SAME SHALL judge him in the last day.

DO YOU REALIZE your saviors lips spoke these sayings, WHEN there was no New Testament? So He means DO the Law and the Prophets.
No New Testament for 150 to 200 yrsAFTER HIS RESURECTION!

How long until His children read His lips?

FIRST Christians did His Word per HIS sayings! Can you do the same? The Apostles never directly quoted each other OR a New Testament, but preached the Word?
---Paul9594 on 11/6/09


Acts 15:25- 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things,

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
---Donna66 on 11/6/09


They did not set rules, you shall not murder, steal, and others does this mean Christians could break these? ---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

You are missing the whole point. If a person is really born again, and has received The Spirit, then that person will not murder, steal, etc. because they will be led by The Spirit.

What is better? Being led by The Spirit, or following laws? Those who are truly led by The Spirit no longer need the law.

Those who don't have The Spirit are under the law, and if you read the news, they break the law. That is why the law DID NOT WORK. That is why a New Testament was needed. That is why the law is done away with for born again believers led by The Spirit.
---Gary on 11/6/09


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Does physical circumcision prove one is saved? No!
certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED (Acts 15:1).
Donna66, giving starting rules prevented the doctrine of keeping circumcision as the way to saved. Instead because we are saved, by faith, we fulfill the Law of circumcision to its original intension, spiritual circumcision of our heart to be spiritual, holy! You shall be holy for Im holy, per your Father!
They did not set rules, you shall not murder, steal, and others does this mean Christians could break these? Do we make the law of no effect because of our faith? No! We establish the law! Romans 3:31
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09


Paul-
Before Jesus DIED, no one was a Christian.
He spoke mainly to Jews, as their Messiah. It was His death and Resurrection that made Christianity possible!
Jesus only alluded to this, because his disciples did not, and could not, understand. His death and resurrection hadn't happened yet!

Therefore,the rest of the New Testament is necessary, not the Gospels alone.
The Jews continued to follow the Sabbath and dietary laws with which they had been raised.
The Gentiles were used to very different customs. When they accepted Jesus as Savior, they did not become Jews., but Christians.

That the early church gave them a different set of rules is not guesswork! Acts 15 describes this quite clearly. Have you READ it?
---Donna66 on 11/5/09


The law does not allow the priesthood of Jesus. The law says ONLY sons of Levi can be priests, and only Aaron could be the high priest.

In order to validate Jesus as the new High Priest, and all believers as priests, it was necessary to cancel the law, at least all of Numbers 18. Hebrew 7:18 tells us that the law was disannulled (canceled). All laws dealing with the Levitical Priesthood had to be canceled. All of Numbers 18. That means that tithing was canceled.

There is NO law to establish the priesthood of Jesus Christ. There is NO law to establish believers as priests. It is now ALL done by grace.
---Gary on 11/5/09


Do we ignore the Psalms of David a man after God's heart?

Do you see, hear,how good he speaks about the Law/teachings,instructions of your Father?

How about the book proverbs, do you see, hear how good it talks about the Law?

How did the Law meaning Torah meaning teachings/instructions go from being something good and respected to being bondage that has passed?

Because of the the bad teaching of men!
The Law in the mind of many is bad, but not in reality...
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09


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Dear friend, who is your Teacher, according to your savior lip's?

Matthew 23:7 and the salutations in the markets, and to be called of :men, Rabbei. 8 But
be not ye called Rabbei: for one is your :teacher, and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no one your father on the earth: for one is your :Father, the
heavenly one. 10 Neither be called masters: for one is your master, the
Christ.

Will His children follow His Teachings First and Only His teaching?

Do you deny your own savior's teaching meaning well because of bad teaching?

This is why we have so many denominations and doctrines, stop stop! Can a house divided stand?

You mean well but learn, memorize the teachings from you savior's lips FIRST!
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09


Some instructions are for our well-being ( & that of others near us) here on earth if we follow them. If we do not follow them, we disturb our well-being. In my opinion, these 2 examples you gave above fall into this category. God has not changed but the understanding of men/women changes James 1:17, Gal.6:7. You know the Lord Jesus has taught us that we can do work of mercy/saving life/helping the needy on the sabbath therefore some professionals work fall into these category. Even those whose profession is not in those category can also help, Matt.12:10-12.
---Adetunji on 11/5/09


God will always be the same as recorded in his word. People's traditions have changed. We are a busy society so we often, out of habit, do not take time to rest. Our minds are filled with images on television and pushed by leaders to be constantly on the go. We are pushed to excel in everything we do or be looked at as failures in society. We need to look at Jesus, he spread God's word and filled the hunger of many and he healed people on the sabbath, but he took time to go to God in prayer for guidance. If you are doing God's word, there is no day off, we are to show God's love always, but we do need to go to a quiet place to listen for instruction from the Lord, so that we don't get caught up in our own thinking. God Bless You My Friend.
---carrie on 11/4/09


God does not change in His nature. But He changes in the way He deals with mankind. In the Old testament, sin was "covered" by the sacrifice and blood of bulls and lambs. After Jesus died, a sacrificial death as the "lamb of God", sin was no longer dealt with that way, but FORGIVEN by faith in Jesus Christ to remove sins.

It was the death of Jesus that changed many things.

When Gentiles, who knew nothing of the rules that guided Jewish life, became "Christians", the apostles, were led led by the Holy Spirit to set minimal requirements for them. You can read about these in Acts 15:22-29.

The complicated dietary and Sabbath rules, of which they had no understanding, were not required of them.
---Donna66 on 11/4/09


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\\Can you show were the SAVIOR'S LIPS instructs His Disciples a different doctringe for the Gentile, FIRST?
---paul9594 on 11/3/09\\

Read Acts 15.

Are you claiming that the apostles and elders in Jerusalem were WRONG in saying that the Gentiles were not obliged to keep either kosher OR the Sabbath?
---Cluny on 11/4/09


Dear Mima:

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the
truth: :THY:WORD IS TRUTH 18 Even as thou didst send me into the world, I also sent them into the world.
19 And for them I sanctify myself, that THEY also may be sanctified in the
truth.

From your savior's lips we know that His....Word is truth. Do you realize when Christ said His Word is truth there was no New Testament? Not for 200 to 300 Years!

Are you being sanctified in the truth? The Word of God, which many call incorrectly the Old Testament? Grace always was and will be until the Day of Judgment. By power of the Holy Spirit, you can have His mindset and manners of the Torah!
---Paul9594 on 11/4/09


If you will ponder this statement, if you will meditate upon it. You will find your answer. John 1:17,
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
We are at this moment in the dispensation(age) of grace. And the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ completely erases the harsh unforgiving law of Moses.
Many times I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for bringing grace and for letting me be born in it.
---mima on 11/4/09


Jesus came unto His own first, the Jew,right?

Then take away all four Gospels from the Gentile!!! AFTER all He preached it to the Jew.
Who would follow after the Jew? The Gentiles.

How do you pick what was meant fot the Jew and for the Gentiles? Do you use the precepts of men to pick and choose?


Are you not grafted into the same ROOT... OF THE TREE OF LIFE? Christ?

Can you show were the SAVIOR'S LIPS instructs His Disciples a different doctringe for the Gentile, FIRST?
---paul9594 on 11/3/09


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Types of foods and whether or not a person rests or works has little to do with God. When Scripture speaks of God being unchanging, this means he is always righteous and worthy in his ways: He will not condemn already bruised reeds, nor will he acquit the guilty. And when God exacts judgment upon individuals it is always perfect judgemnt. For God's unchanging judgment, Please Read- Ezekiel 18:25-32+ 33:17-20.
---Eloy on 11/1/09


Are of the very elect? Is your leader adding/ subtracting from the Word, in ways that contradict and do not consent to the sound words of your Savior?

What does the New Testament say about those that do not consent with the wholesome words of Christ?

1 Timothy 6:3-4
If any teacheth different, and consenteth not to sound words, those of our :Lord Jesus Christ, and to the teaching according to godliness, 4 he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but sick about disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife

How are many denying their savior today? By denying the teachings from His lips? .Because of bad teachers, some well meaning learned from bad, still, teach the precepts of men and not those of your Father!
---paul9594 on 11/1/09


Your savior hanged the Law and the Prophets with the two Greatest commandments! He linked them together,

Why do you unhanged them, unlinked them and throw them in the trash?

The void this which is the law and Prophets:
Do unto other as you would have them do unto you
---Paul9594 on 11/1/09


Matthew 5: 19 Whoso therefore shall break one of these the least :commandments, and shall teach :men so, shall be calledleast in the kingdom of the heavens, but whoso shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

You say, well that was told to the Jews, not the Gentiles!
Then that being the case all the four Gospels were told to the Jew, after all He came for to His own first!

Why dont you also throw out all the Gospels of Christs ministry, salvation, preached to the Jews? Have you been grafted into the root by faith to bear the same fruit righteousness? Are you of some of other fruit from a lawless Christ?
---paul9594 on 11/1/09


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Gentiles were NEVER bound to the Sabbath or Kashuroth. Read Acts 15.

These were for JEWS.
---Cluny on 11/1/09


God, Himself, does not change. That doesn't mean that God hasn't or doesn't change His mind. There are examples all through the Old Testament where God changed His mind.

Just watch your local news on TV or read the news. People are killing people every day yet the local, state, and national laws all say it is against the law to kill another person. Laws don't work now, and laws didn't work in the Old Testament. Laws have NEVER prevented murders. That is why the Word says the law was a schoolmaster UNTIL Jesus came. Once we are born again and receive the Spirit, we are to live by the Spirit which is SUPERIOR to the law. Now if we just THINK of killing someone, the Spirit will convict us.
---Gary on 11/1/09


Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.The -law- from this verse represents the 10 commandments and is now condensed to one commandment and all mosiac ,levitical laws and prophet prophecies represent the -promise -spirit of truth-.These law(s) Jesus spoke of represent what man could not do-live by faith- until man was (potentially) capable of a greater understanding of God.With understanding comes the gospel's illumination and enlightenment and the time was ripe for a new revelation where man can be accounted for righteousness without having to work for it without surrendering his body parts, livestock or harvest.
---earl on 11/1/09


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