What Is A Soul
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"I checked my responses below to see if my quoting of scripture was in any way prideful...I couldn't find any." Jerry, 11/10
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Peace!!! |
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---Leon on 11/10/09 |
Leon: "Jerry: It seems to me you're just trying to win an argument despite the overwhelming Bible evidence that support my statements & refute yours. (Proverbs 16:18)"
---Leon on 11/9/09
I could say the same thing about you, but that would be unkind. I've given you substantial Bible evidence, and you've given a convoluted, self-contradictory theory. I checked my responses below to see if my quoting of scripture was in any way prideful as you assert. I couldn't find any. Would you please point them out? |
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---jerry6593 on 11/10/09 |
The Bible says:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. ...
Always go by the word of God and not the teachings of man. |
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---djconklin on 11/9/09 |
Jerry: It seems to me you're just trying to win an argument despite the overwhelming Bible evidence that support my statements & refute yours. (Proverbs 16:18) |
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---Leon on 11/9/09 |
Since the Spirit returns to GOD.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
We know this is true. But the Bible never says the Soul returns to GOD. The soul and spirit are not the same thing. The doctrine of most churches is that the Soul is a seperate entity residing in a person.
Now some say here we are a triune person. In a triune compand if you remove one of the componets the whole is dissolved. So even this points to the sleep of the dead and no immortal soul. |
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---Samuel on 11/9/09 |
Leon: It seems to me that you have contradicted yourself.
Re Gen 2:7, you said:
"The man then became mentally conscious (a breathing creature, soul, nephesh, mind) -- alive." Thus, only when breath was added to dust did man become a soul = a conscious, living creature.
Then, re Ps.146:4, you said:
"At physical death, man's breath (soul/mind/consciousness)" Now you claim that the BREATH is the SOUL, rather than the life-giving component of the soul. And thus, the breath itself becomes the conscious, living creature.
You can't have it both ways. |
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---jerry6593 on 11/9/09 |
Genesis 2:7 speaks of that life giving force God created in the human body.
Psalms 146:4 merely speaks of the body being returned to the earth but says nothing about that life giving force within the person.
Also there is Stephen who asked Jesus to receive his spirit, obviously not his body but something within his very being.
Actt7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
So you have really offered nothing that would convince one that man is anything but a triune being possessing body, soul & spirit. And the Bible speaks of all three entities. |
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---Lee1538 on 11/7/09 |
"How would you 'interpret' these scriptures?" Jerry, 11/7
The referenced scripture adequately explains itself:
G2:7 - God caused the lifeless physical body of man to inhale His life giving breath. The man then became mentally conscious (a breathing creature, soul, nephesh, mind) -- alive.
Ps.146:4 - At physical death, man's breath (soul/mind/consciousness) "goes forth". That means it's spirited/exhaled out of (separates from) the physical body. So, what's left is a physically dead body. Absent of "thought" (consciousness: SOUL), the lifeless body is "returned to the earth" (buried).
I sincerely hope this helps your understanding Jerry.
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---Leon on 11/7/09 |
Jerry, I have said this before, you are a nice guy, and I am sure if we met we would get along. But what I see you are not doing is, really searching for the Truth. We have all kinds of Word Study Bibles with the correct words in Hebrew and Greek, so that we can check the words that are said in Scripture. This books are help adds. When someone is really devoted to Christ and loves Him with all his heart, they will do anything to learn about Him, with the resources they can affort. I even took a study in Hermeneutics, a small study, just to make sure I interpret things correctly. I could care less for denominations if they all taught the Truth. This way when we give this Truth it will have the power of God behind it otherwise it is useless. |
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---MarkV. on 11/7/09 |
Leon: "Jerry: You quote a lot of Scripture. But, you seem unable to discern the difference between what the Bible says about the physical/natural man & the spirit man (mind: soul). I believe this is why you're confused about what a soul really is."
Uhh, could you provide a scripture to substantiate those assertions?
I read:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
How would you "interpret" these scriptures? |
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---jerry6593 on 11/7/09 |
jerry//If you'll notice, the four quotes I gave Leon were ALL from the Bible. Methinks it is you who needs to improve his reading skills.
While you sometimes quote from the Bible, the interpretation you give has to be that of Ellen White, whom you believe was an infallible prophetess of God.
Sorry but the Bible makes a distinction between soul, body and spirit and nowhere does it state that either of these entities disappear upon death.
The Adventist god is not the god of the living but of the sleepy heads!~
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---Lee1538 on 11/6/09 |
Jerry: You quote a lot of Scripture. But, you seem unable to discern the difference between what the Bible says about the physical/natural man & the spirit man (mind: soul). I believe this is why you're confused about what a soul really is.
You conviently quote Scripture, but it's apparent you lack understanding of it because you're not looking to God for clarity & wisdom. Reading the Bible more, apart from the Holy Spirit, won't help beyond pre-K growth in the Lord. Seek God's lead...
MarkV: Let us always strive to study the whole Bible in right context to the edification of our soul. |
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---Leon on 11/6/09 |
I applaud the idea that people use search engine and look up the word Soul and sleep to find the truth. I would add the word death and one other point. Blueletter bible and other search engine allow that after looking up a verse you can read it in different translations. That would add more depth to the study.
But sad to say I do not believe most people will actually do this. Since it actually uses the Bible as the final source of authority. It also requires time and effort to get to the truth. But if you do be sure and above all Pray to GOD for guidance from the HOLY SPIRIT.
May the LORD Bless and keep you. |
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---Samuel on 11/6/09 |
Many times in scripture, the word "soul" is synonymous with the word "life". "Then yhwh God shaped man, even the soil of the ground, and breathed into his face the breath of life. So man was made a living soul." Genesis 2:7. |
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---Eloy on 11/6/09 |
lee: "Jerry needs to read the Bible more and Ellen White less."
If you'll notice, the four quotes I gave Leon were ALL from the Bible. Methinks it is you who needs to improve his reading skills. |
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---jerry6593 on 11/6/09 |
Steveng: Good counsel to do a word search on "soul." Comparing scripture with scripture is the proper form of Bible study. Another good one for a word search is the word "sleep." It refers to the state of the dead more than it does to nightly slumber. |
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---jerry6593 on 11/6/09 |
It's amazing. All of you are right in a fragmented sort of way.
Search the scriptures to find for yourself the meaning of "soul." Go to BibleGateway and do an online KJV bible search for the world "soul." Read all 498 verse concerning "soul." Reading all verse is not for the weak soul. |
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---Steveng on 11/5/09 |
Leon 2 continue: I posted a second part to my answer but did not come out.
The word soul "Nephesh" in another context means the vital principle which results in death when it leaves the body (Gen. 35:18 1 Kings 17:21) Nephesh can die or stop (Judges 16:30), it can be killed (Num. 31:19) and poured out with blood (Isa. 53:12, Lam. 2:12). So soul or "Nephesh" can is used in many phrases differently. Nobody can just say, this is what it is, since in Scripture it has many different meanings depending on the context of that passage the word is found in. That is why Lee is correct in his answer. If it can be killed, surely it was alive. |
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---MarkV. on 11/5/09 |
I find this statement,"Luther's right hand man continued to teach it after Luther gave up the idea." by ---Samuel on 11/5/09 the very misleading. To understand that Luther definitely believed in works you have but to read the small catechism and/or the large catechism. I fear that Luther's teachings have led many an unwary person to hell!!!! |
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---mima on 11/5/09 |
First Lee conditionalism was around and taught by churches before Ellen G. White was born. Luther's right hand man continued to teach it after Luther gave up the idea.
Now the Bible says we are a soul in Genesis 2:7. But on the reference about not being afraid of those who cannot kill the soul. Remeber all will be resurrected. Some will perish or cease to exist some will be given eternal life.
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Those who do not follow GOD perish. They will stay dead forever. This makes the two phrases match not contridict as your interpretation does. |
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---Samuel on 11/5/09 |
Your soul is your mind, will, and emotions. The soul in Eccle. was both the unsaved spirit and the mind together. Your spirit being dead because seperation from God was linked to the soul which was controlled by the flesh through the five physical senses.
Those who lived under the law when they died they went to Abrahams Bosom (a place next to hell) others who did not live according to the law went to Hell. Rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) |
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---Blaine on 11/5/09 |
//Thus, when the body dies, the soul does not continue living - it simply ceases to exist.
Then why did Jesus tell us to fear him who is able to destroy both body & soul in hell?
Mt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And we see there is a distinction between soul & spirit.
Hebr. 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Jerry needs to read the Bible more and Ellen White less. |
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---Lee1538 on 11/5/09 |
Leon:
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
Act 2:29,34 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. ..... For David is not ascended into the heavens:
Joh 11:11,14 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.....Lazarus is dead. |
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---jerry6593 on 11/5/09 |
"...when the body dies, the soul does not continue living -- it simply ceases to exist." Jerry, 11/4
Is that Bible fact or "simply" your opinion Jerry? True, the soul of man has it's origin in the breath of life from God. Yet, the soul (though housed in the human body/the brain) isn't dependent upon the body for existence (life). Rather, the body depends on the soul (breath of God) for life.
When our physical bodies die, our soul lives on (either in God's presence or in hell). That's what the Bible teaches.
Jesus' statement (see Bible references above) implies we don't have to lose our soul (mind: will, emotions, intellect) "IF" we're obedient to God's word.
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---Leon on 11/4/09 |
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
SOUL IS THE BODY WITH THE BREATH OF GOD IN IT
At death the process is reversed
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. |
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---francis on 11/4/09 |
Leon, in Scripture the soul is discripted in different ways depending in what context "soul" is mentioned in a given passage.
1. Nephesh-noun arises from the word naphash. it is the breath, respiration, life: Soul spirit, mind, a living being, a creature, person, self. Most of them are closely related concepts which break down to a few basic meanings.
2. The verb Naphash occurs three times in the Niphal (passive-reflexive) stern (Ex. 23:12, 31:17, 2 Samuel 16:14) and means to refresh one's self.
3. Nephesh, the deriv. noun, appears to be note "breath" in Genesis 1:30 (Gen. 2:7, 1 Kings 17:22, Job 41:21). It is the soul by which the body lives, continues to live by drawing breath. |
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---MarkV. on 11/4/09 |
SOUL in Strong's Concordance from an OT reference, the dominant definition of SOUL -- any living breathing creature or animal, there are about 5 or 6 exceptions in when it is a different Hebrew word.
SOUL, Greek NT usage you are going to get a significantly different definition that is closer to the term spirit. Biblical NT writers and modern theological y writers tend to use them interchangeably to some extent.
Generally you can apply an OT definition to a NT usage, it may be expanded but the original OT definition will be one of the usages but not necessarily the dominate usage. You general should not apply any NT definition to an OT passage as the probability is very high that it will not apply. |
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---The_Friendly_Blogger on 11/4/09 |
Again, according to the Bible, the soul is the combination of the body and the breath of life from God. Thus, when the body dies, the soul does not continue living - it simply ceases to exist. |
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---jerry6593 on 11/4/09 |
Soul-the part that is individual.The mind,the will the emotions. |
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---shirley on 11/3/09 |
"Conscious awareness of ones being." Joseph, 11/3
Can you please expand upon your statement? Thanks.
What is a soul MarkV? :) |
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---Leon on 11/3/09 |
Leon, the passage is saying, that at judgment when he faces the disatrous hell of remorse and suffering for his lost soul, with what will he buy it back from perdition? he cannot buy it back, it is too late.
Losing his soul is to be found guilty and heading for hell itself. Where he will feel pain, after he receives his body prepared for hell. |
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---MarkV. on 11/3/09 |
"What is a soul?" Conscious awareness of ones being. |
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---joseph on 11/3/09 |
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Perhaps my last post would be better stated in this way.
'A' soul is one consciously and/or subconsciously aware of ones being (self, life).
'The' soul is representative of the conscious mind, as the seat of ones recognized 'will, emotions, appetites or passions'. (As in "The soul that sins, it shall die.")
Referred to as the "heart" when the aforementioned aspects are applied to the unrecognized subconscious. (As in "The heart is deceitful above all things..") |
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---joseph on 11/3/09 |
Pierre: If you were only breathing, would you really be alive? :) |
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---Leon on 11/2/09 |
Answer: The presence or absences of" the breath of life." |
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---Pierre on 11/2/09 |
The soul is simply who you are. Your whole being, save for your flesh-and-body which your senses operate through while you have breath. It encompasses all that you feel emotionally. It includes all that you think. Your memory and your knowledge. It includes your five senses of sight, taste, touch, hearing and smelling. It is everything that you are. Your soul is dwelling inside of a temporary flesh-and-blood body until Death comes (or the Rapture for some). At Death, your soul will live on in another body that will be "designed", as it were, to fit the Place that you end up living in for Eternity. Be that Heaven, or Hell and the Lake of Fire. |
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---Gordon on 11/2/09 |
Good response Pierre. But, what determines whether or not a person is alive or dead? |
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---Leon on 11/2/09 |
Gen 2:7 KJVAnd the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
NKJV - Gen 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being.
This seems pretty clean that a living soul is a living being a dead soul then would be a dead person. |
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---Samuel on 11/2/09 |
A "soul" is a living human being. To loose ones soul as mentioned in the text is to loose ones life. Obviously it would not do anyone any good to gain the whole world if he or she would loose his/her life at the same time for he or she would be dead. |
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---Pierre on 11/1/09 |
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