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Is Christmas Birth Of Jesus

Why do people believe christ-mas(s) celebrates a birth?

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 ---Rhonda on 11/3/09
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Jim, Christmas Trees, Mistletoe, Poinsettias and Lights/bulbs are Christian symbols: Green life in the dead of winter, Christ's blood appearing on weeds set before the Christmas nativity in a mexican church passion play, and Christ is the Light to the world.
---Eloy on 11/10/09


I did say ALL who do, so yes that includes you. Do these churches not have a Christmas Trees, Mistletoe, Poinsettias, Lights/bulbs, and other pagan icons within their sanctuary. Yet you claim you are celebrating the birth of Christ. Did not the Israelites do the same by worshiping Baal and God with the same ritual? You shall have no other gods before me. By celebrating this Pagan Holy day you add Jesus to the list, so now you worship your god of light Jesus right???, but you forget that you just put him on par with the other gods of light. That is blasphemy. Your midnight Mass are design to worship the god of light so Jesus is on par as well. Yes, you in fact DO worship a Pagan Holy Day decreed to be Holy by a Pagan Roman Emperor.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/9/09


Pastor Jim .... "Want me to post the over 100+ times God destroyed those who substituted a pagan offering/holiday to God?"

Those were all where they worshipped a pagan god instead of God.

Hey, Pastor J ... I used to go to a Bible Study/Home Church on Thursday evenings. Lucky for me I stopped, eh? Otherwise I would have been worshipping the Norse god, Thor. And if I worship on Wednesday, that would be Woden, not God.

I wonder which day I can safely worship God?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/9/09


The answer is ALL celebrate a Pagan Holiday on Christmas day, both figuratively and literally! The Evergreen Tree is a Roman god brought in the house to keep Spring alive. The Bulb/Lights are Babylonian. The Yule Log is Roman effigy to the Light gods. Santa Clause is a Nordic god. The gifts given to appease the gods. Midnight service was a pagan offering to the gods to remember them. (125 words ltd) Do you want me to post more? Want me to post the over 100+ times God destroyed those who substituted a pagan offering/holiday to God. I will!!!
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/8/09

Since they also worship their own god, are you saying then we should not worship Our Lord and Saviour?
---Ruben on 11/9/09


There is no problem in glorifying the death of Jesus It delivered me from sin.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.Colossians 1:21-22 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
---exzucuh on 11/9/09




\\ Cluny

Mass is not biblical - PER RCC a DEATH SACRIFICE \\

Wrong again, as in so many other things you say.

According to Roman Catholic teaching, the Mass is the presentation on earth IN TIME under veils of bread and wine the One Sacrifice eternally (OUTSIDE OF TIME) pleaded without veils in heaven.

Or as Orthodoxy puts it, the Sacrifice is the change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of the Lamb sacrificed from the foundation of the world.

Your calling it a "death sacrifice" will not make it so.
---Cluny on 11/9/09


Pastor Jim ... Do you know me? Have you met me? Do you know anyone who knows me?

How then do you say that I celebrate a Pagan Holiday?
*****

this is what happens when mankind HONORS its traditions MORE THAN Gods commands Mark 7:6-9

they become indignant hostile and defensive of their CHERISHED tradtions that God clearly states in scripture HE HATES

Pastor Jim does not "tell" you that you celebrate a pagan day ...Gods Word DOES

on authority of RCC one can christianize a pagan evil abomination

to do so they MUST dismiss The Father in Heaven he PLAINLY STATES do not take pagan days and APPLY THEM TO ME

one cannot serve God and mammon
---Rhonda on 11/9/09


And Rhonda, it has already been shown to you that the suffix "mas" does not mean "celebration of death"
*****

no someone LIED calling the "mas" a feast very easy to expose this LIE through word history

usage of FEAST began in 1589AD LONG AFTER usage of missa it is from word festival fest - Middle English festivus
WORD christ-mas(s) is simply Death of Christ a MERGING of Christ's mass centuries ago Christemasse now shortened with ONE "s" ...LIES to defend the xmas day by DENYING history since christ-mass is NOT biblical one can ONLY find its TRUE meaning through history

further name of Christ is HOLY merging words or other letters INTO his name is blasphemy
---Rhonda on 11/9/09


Pastor Jim ... Do you know me? Have you met me? Do you know anyone who knows me?

How then do you say that I celebrate a Pagan Holiday? May I put it more strongly? HOW DARE YOU SAY I CELEBRATE A PAGAN HOLIDAY?

I do not do that, I CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOUR

As do all Christians who celebrate Christmas. You will not find one Christian who at Christmas celebrates a death.

And Rhonda, it has already been shown to you that the suffix "mas" does not mean "celebration of death"
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/9/09


Casey, your relativley surism is wrong. Greek gods have zero to do with the actual date of Christ's birth. And also no Greek would desire their old drunken and pagan holidays anymore after they have become born-again Christians and have gained the real holiday of all holidays, and the greatest birthday party in the whole world, Jesus Christ the Savior.
---Eloy on 11/9/09




strongax, "same day" means, same= "similar", "like", "equal" + day= "a twent-four hour period of time". Therefore "same day" means, originally the day of the first year of creation is the "same", "similar", "like" "equal" to the day of the next year.
---Eloy on 11/9/09


Jesus commanded we take communion in remembrance of him. No other was his commandment. The disciples met each Sunday to celebrate resurrection day, not one day a year.
---exzucuh on 11/9/09


Cluny

Mass is not biblical - PER RCC a DEATH SACRIFICE ...and their WORTHY VICTIM is Christ ...hence their eucharist (from ceremony of "mass") are ACTIONS from the ancient pagan Mirtha religion where those who observed their religious ceremony BECAME "one" with their victim ...NOTHING from scripture describes eucharist

In true RCC fashion TRUE meaningsconcealed under MASSIVE layers of religious babbling - deliberately chaotic to MASK lies ...even those who OBEY are controlled to what they believe

easy to control when per their own catechism all people who SERVE and OBEY the MOTHER RCC Rev 17 WILLINGLY submit their minds to their god Pope

history confirms God Word is VOID of the pagan mass ritual
---Rhonda on 11/8/09


IS THIS YOUR QUESTION ALAN...Lee, Rhonda, Pastor Jim, Rosalie, StrongAxe all the others will find no Christian who on Christmas Day celebrates a pagan festival, Why will you not answer the question?

The answer is ALL celebrate a Pagan Holiday on Christmas day, both figuratively and literally! The Evergreen Tree is a Roman god brought in the house to keep Spring alive. The Bulb/Lights are Babylonian. The Yule Log is Roman effigy to the Light gods. Santa Clause is a Nordic god. The gifts given to appease the gods. Midnight service was a pagan offering to the gods to remember them. (125 words ltd) Do you want me to post more? Want me to post the over 100+ times God destroyed those who substituted a pagan offering/holiday to God. I will!!!
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/8/09


In fact, being such a big holiday for even un-believers, Christmas provides a unique opportunity for Christians to tell the meaning of the Christ-child
****

by authority of RCC many are duped into believing they christianize pagan days that is AGAINST Holy Word of God

Per scripture God HATES pagan traditions Deut 12:29-31 tells us to NOT FOLLOW THEM (heathens pagans customs) an abomination to practice pagan traditions APPLYING them to God

True Christians abhor what is evil darkness turning away from evil, NOT imitating evil Rom 12:9, Eph 5:8-11, 1Pter 3:11, 3John 11

the LIES of xmas are many there is nothing within these LIES that honor Biblical Christ on a pagan day God HATES and WARNS us to not apply to HIM
---Rhonda on 11/8/09


Ok, i'm relatively sure about this. In December, there was a big Greek holiday that celebrated a greek god and involved lots of games and parties and most likely drinking too. SO when the Christians were converting Greeks, many Greeks were disappointed to see this holiday go, so the new Christians decided to celebrate the birth of Christ in December just because. Why not?
---Casey on 11/8/09


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\\ hypocriciy of xmas celebrating Christs birth points to dozens of lies that are programmed into people from MOTHER RCC Rev 17 who GAVE mankind Christ-mass - Death of Christ\\

This is the first of three posts by Rhonda since she started this blog.

Not ONE Of them offers any evidence for her claim that Christmas celebrates the death of Christ, despite numerous requests.

Why?
---Cluny on 11/8/09


Pastor Jim hit the nail on the head. Figuring the approximate date of Christ's birth is easy. Christ was crucified at the Easter season, late March, or early April. He was 33 1/2 years old at His crucifixion. That puts His approximate birth time at 6 months before, or after the time of His crucifixion, late August, or early September. Pretty simple huh? Not December, the time of all of the pagan god's birthdays.
---Dave on 11/8/09


The fact that Christmas has become a commercial holiday, IN NO WAY prevents Christians from celebrating the earthly "birthday" of the Savior (who existed before pagans, Christians, or holidays)

In fact, being such a big holiday for even un-believers, Christmas provides a unique opportunity for Christians to tell the meaning of the Christ-child coming to earth and His great GIFT of eternal life.
---Donna66 on 11/8/09


Rhonda ... my post of 11/5 said:

It matters not whether: Christmas was imposed on a previous celebatory day, or that it may be at the wrong time of the year.

The fact is that Christians on 25th December actually do celebrate Christ's birth. To say that they celebrate something else is total rubbish. Ask any of them.

Lee, Rhonda, Pastor Jim, Rosalie, StrongAxe and all the others will find no Christian who on Christmas Day celebrates a pagan festival, or the death of Christ.

Why will you not answer the question?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/8/09


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lies from Satan seduce millions into Christ-mass money and merry making machine

the suns-day holds real POWER over those who allow themselves to be at its mercy ...of course the day once known as the suns-day appears as a beautiful thing superimposed over another Christ 2Corin 11:4

Satan and his ministers have the POWER to appear as ministers of LIGHT - if xmas appeared as the BEAST nobody would bow down to the day

commercial messages like "spirit of xmas" given as a department store slogan for customers during the depression - its message tugs at heart strings ...the message HONORS retail kings who make more than 70% of their profits around the globe during the month of honoring the sun god
---Rhonda on 11/8/09


strongax, you err, for Bibilically the day is always the same day every year
*****

Gregorian Calendar created in mid 1500 NOT "biblical" simple calendar based only sun calculations creating allusion of "fixed" days occurring annually

per scripture Gen 1:14 using sun moon for signs seasons days years just like Hebrew Calendar - Gods Sacred Calendar perfect harmony with astronomically proven 19 year time cycle ...this is why days are not same each year because month of V'Adar added at end of Sacred Year correcting time differences of leap years mathematically proving back to Gods 19 year time cycle

unlike Gregorian using ONLY sun OFF more than 2 hours every 400 years equaling full day every 3,323 years
---Rhonda on 11/8/09


Eloy:

What does "same day" mean? On the Jewish lunar calendar, the position of the moon on Yom Kippur will be the same every single year - but as moon and sun aren't synchronized, the sun's position will be DIFFERENT each Yom Kippur. On our solar calendar, the sun's position on December 25 is the same every year, but the moon's position differs each year.

If you count days by the Jewish calendar, the corresponding solar calendar date will be different every year. If you count days by the solar calendar, the corresponding Jewish date will be different every year. Even if you could fix a precise date for Jesus's birth in the Jewish calendar, that day would be on a different date on OUR calendar each year.
---StrongAxe on 11/8/09


There is no agreement as to the actual date Jesus was born. As someone has rightly observed, "birthdays" were not neccessarily observed in that culture.

I believe that Jesus always desires the adoration and worship of His children and He uses whatever cultural customs He can to reach the hearts of the lost.

But I can't imagine Him becoming all concerned over what "day" people celebrate His "birthday"... or even if they do!
---Donna66 on 11/8/09


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strongax, you err, for Bibilically the day is always the same day every year. The original months and days of the month were were always the same, and it was only later that man instituted leap years where an extra day was added to February every forth year, but the first establishment of months and days and years set by God were perpetually consistant. And evnthough man has played with the number of days and hours (daylight savings time) in the years. The months of the years still continue to coordinate with the seasons within the years. For the populace is not prepared to accept any foolishness like having spring time in December, nor yet winter time in June.
---Eloy on 11/8/09


Cluny, Holy Scripture literally reads verse-by-verse that Christ was born in December and quilt-strapped in the winter. But the nonChristians puff themselves up against the holy word as though they could be more knowledgeable then the clear word of God. Like weeds springing up in a garden are the unregenerate whom dis those of us whom profess the simple truth of the gospel. God says December, but they say some other month, God says his name is Jesus, but they say santy claus, God says Jesus is God, but they say he's just a man, et cetera. Thus, if these blind lead the blind, then both will fall in the ditch.
---Eloy on 11/8/09


Good Point Rhonda!
Cluny dead wrong on the Temple services. The Temple was serviced 24/7 with Prayer services 3 times a Day as is the Jewish law. The rest of the day was taken up in various rituals (Baths/Sacrifical preparations). The fire is keep burning all night and day etc. Low Priest duties are weekly. (i.e. for the whole week)

Now! How would You and Eloy appreciate it, if some Self-Righteous Servants of yours decided to celebrate your birthdays on the day THEY decided was best for them. Not on your real birthday. Instead they said your wishes are worthless to them and have decreed that this day is better than your actual birthday. Maybe on a Satanic holiday. Hmmmm????
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/7/09


hypocriciy of xmas celebrating Christs birth points to dozens of lies that are programmed into people from MOTHER RCC Rev 17 who GAVE mankind Christ-mass - Death of Christ

xmas celebrates giving and peace LIES programmed and wooed into ignorant people who turn a blind eye refuse to acknowledge truth of "xmas season" ...police REPORTS confirm December has highest crime rates ....thefts shoplifting violent crimes ...drunk driving deaths ...divorces suicides fires ...binges office and home parties resulting in irresponsible alcohol related behaviors promiscuity lying etc

those who embrace suns-day calling it holy and honoring biblical christ blinded to evil masquerading in their own self deceptive indulgent LIES
---Rhonda on 11/7/09


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\\Zacharias was a low level priest doing a routine weekly service NO special day. \\

If by "weekly service", you mean "week's worth," ok.

But services were held in the Temple TWICE DAILY, not just on the Sabbath.
---Cluny on 11/7/09


Eloy:

If you want to keep anniversaries according to the lunar Jewish calendar, as was always done for old testament holidays, that is perfectly fine. However, the month that we now call "December" moves around to different places on that calendar every year. So a Jewish date that is December 25 in one would be December 14 on the next year, since the lunar year has 354 days.

Going the other way, for example, December 25 this year is 8 Tevat, while last year it was 28 Kislev, and next year it will be 18 Tevat.
---StrongAxe on 11/7/09


Was Zechariah a High Priest or deputizing at Atonement Day, as Cluny and Eloy assert?

According to Luke 1:8,9 Zechariah was "acting as priest in the assignment of his division before God... IT BECAME HIS TURN to offer incense when he entered into the sanctuary..."

So now according to Cluny and Eloy, the priests "took turns" to officiate at Atonement Day! Any faithful bible student will immediately see the farcical nature of Cluny and Eloy's erroneous reasoning.

Zechariah went into the 'Holy', stood by the 'altar of incense', saw & spoke to the angel at the 'right side of the incense altar', and came out. He didn't enter the 'Most Holy'.

This happened in early July, 15mths before Jesus' birth.
---David8318 on 11/7/09


jim, your anti-Christian false witnessing is old hat. My inspirited words are from Christ, and all those whom are of God hear my words: but if you misperceive my words as garbage, then that is your own misperception. Many unsaved people dis God's word until they themselves get saved, after which they are no longer deceived but accept the truth and become blessed.
---Eloy on 11/7/09


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Pastor Jim ... "There is nobody ever EVER who made the claim the Jesus was actually born on Dec 25th not even the Holy Roman Empire and its current church"

Not true ... I'm sure Eloy is not the first who has mnade that claim.

But so what? On that day, Christians DO celebrate the Birth of Christ. You can't deny it.

We don't celebrate the birth of anyone else (unless it be an actual current human birth among our family or firends) nor the death of anyone, let alone Jesus.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/7/09


Thank you Pastor Jim for reminding us that it was Annas who was serving as High Priest at the time Zechariah was visited by the angel at Luke 1:8-17.

If it was Atonement Day, Annas would have officiated as has been rightly pointed out.

Nowhere in Luke's account of Zechariah's encounter with the angel in the sanctuary (15mths before Jesus' birth) does it mention Atonement Day or if he was somehow deputizing for Annas.
---David8318 on 11/7/09


\\There is nobody ever EVER who made the claim the Jesus was actually born on Dec 25th not even the Holy Roman Empire and its current church. \\

I realize that history, especially about the Roman Catholic Church, means nothing to some people, but the Holy Roman Empire was established by Otto I in 962--he was the first to be crowned such, and went defunct in 1806 when Francis II abdicated.

Oddly enough, except for a brief time, it did NOT have Rome in its boundaries, or even much of the territory of the old Roman Empire.

And as more than one historian has remarked, in the last analysis, it was not holy, not an empire, and not even Roman.
---Cluny on 11/7/09


WOW!!!
Been a while since I read this thread.
Eloy what a bunch of total garbage!!! It doesnt deserve a reply. Perhaps you can give us all different 666s combinations in the bible too. Zacharias was a low level priest doing a routine weekly service NO special day. In no way was it the Day of Atonement. If it was then Annas (Caiaphas Father in-law) would have done the service. Zachaias would not dare go near the Holy of Holies which is required of the High Priest only on Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). There is nobody ever EVER who made the claim the Jesus was actually born on Dec 25th not even the Holy Roman Empire and its current church. All scholars have put the birth in Sept or late Aug. The High Holy days. Not hard to figure it out.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/7/09


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\\Eloy believes Zechariah was High Priest? He must do if he believes Zechariah was officiating Atonement Day services. ...Lu.1:8

Zechariah didn't enter the 'Most Holy'. He entered 'the sanctuary' (the 'Holy') "to offer incense". ...\\

From my cursory researches into this, it seems that being the priest to offer incense was the most prestigious function and longed-for among the Cohenim.

There is no reason why Zechariah could not have been a stand-in deputy High Priest. A couple of deputies were always kept in reserve, should the real Kohen ha-Gadol suffer ritual defilement. These were always given the honors and deference of the regnant High Priest, whether they acted as such or not.
---Cluny on 11/6/09


strongax, The lunar calendar has nothing to do with the birth of Christ recorded to have been born on December 25. And the length of a year was the same, spring is the beginning of the original "Biblical" year established by God, in Abib (April) is the Passover, every year. Then follows summer and fall and winter, always the same, no matter how you want to count the days and call them Jewish or whatever you choose, for scripture cannot be broken. Man can celebrate any day they choose, but we Christians celebrate Christ's birth recorded to have been born December 25th. "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?" John 11:9. Notice Jesus counted 12 hours of daylight, he did not count 12 hours of the moon.
---Eloy on 11/6/09


David, you bear false witness. And I think it is humorous that you think that you are able to know what I believe, when in fact you do not know.
---Eloy on 11/6/09


Eloy believes Zechariah was High Priest? He must do if he believes Zechariah was officiating Atonement Day services. But this isn't true. Zechariah was never a Hi.Priest, and he wasn't engaged in Atonement Day.Lu.1:8

Zechariah didn't enter the 'Most Holy'. He entered 'the sanctuary' (the 'Holy') "to offer incense". The 'Holy' is where the altar of incense is located.Lu.1:9

Eloy's calculations are thus hopelessly erroneous and inaccurate.

Zechariah was serving in the priestly 'Division of Abijah', one of the 24 priestly divisions formed in David's time. The 'Div.of Abijah' was the 8th.(1Chron.24:10)

Zechariah was in the 2nd round of the 8th course, about early July- 6 months before Mary's conception of Jesus.
---David8318 on 11/6/09


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\\And yes, I agree with you that many of the pagan dieties merely got a name change and a facelift. \\

But I never said this. I was merely quoting YOUR OWN POST on another day:

**And the various pagan god & goddess were given the names of Christian saints. **

Posted by Lee 1538 on 4 November.

Now, I'm waiting for YOU to provide examples of YOUR OWN STATEMENT, as YOU are the one who made the claim originally.

Either you can or you cannot. If you can, do so. Otherwise, retract your statement.
---Cluny on 11/6/09


Cluny -**Can you provide any concrete examples to substantiate your claim? If so, will you?

I already have but apparently you are too afraid of the truth to view the reference I gave you.

And yes, I agree with you that many of the pagan dieties merely got a name change and a facelift.

But that is religion for you, isn't it? So go genuflect on that one, I really could care less.
---lee on 11/6/09


Eloy:

The Jewish calendar is lunar - months are tied to the moon. Both Julian calendar (used by Rome at the time of Jesus), and our Gregorian calendar (our own improved version of the Julian calendar, used for the past 500 years) are tied to the sun. Since the moon is not synchronized with the sun, new moons occur on different times each year. For this reason, if (say) 1 Nisan happens to be 1 April on one year, it will certainly be a different day the following year. If you look at any calendar today, you will see that Rosh Hashanah happens on a different day each year.

As such, it is impossible to place an exact correspondence between any Biblical months and our own months because they are always shifting around from year to year.
---StrongAxe on 11/6/09


\\All you really need is to view the reference I gave you and you will have all the concrete (cement type) examples you will ever need.

Are you afraid you will come up short? Or is it you simply want to be argumentative?
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09\\

Lee, YOU were the one who said that many Christian saints are simply pagan deities in disguise.

Can you provide any concrete examples to substantiate your claim? If so, will you?
---Cluny on 11/6/09


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Jim, It is recorded in both testaments of the holy scriptures that Christ Jesus was proven to be born in the 2nd hour of night, between 7 and 8 oclock Mediterraean time, on December 25th, 5 B.C., prophesied in Heggai 2:15,18,19 and also fulfilled in Luke 1:8-11,26,27,36.

Jim, I do not follow any roman emperor, as you lie, and you need to repent and get saved.

And Holy Scripture is Bibllical.
---Eloy on 11/6/09


Cluny, it could be that Rhonda thinks Christmas is a funeral mass which the catholic religion has. I think that religion has all kinds of masses or ceremonies, and Rhonda may wrongly think that Christ-mas (-mas, 1 es) is somehow related to a mass (2 es's).
---Eloy on 11/6/09


David, Zacharias was performing the priests Day of Atonement to make atonement for himnself and the people in the 7th month (Heb: Ethanim= Eng: October- Lev.16:29-34+ 23:26-32). Now the angel Gabriel spoke to him at this time, Lk.1:8-11. Elizabeth in her 6th month of pregnancy, when Mary conceives seed from the Holy Ghost (from October, November is 1, December is 2, January is 3, and so on up to April is the 6th month- Lk.1:26,27,36). Now count 9 months for Mary's pregnancy, 1,Abib or Nisan, April + 2,Zif, May + 3,Siuan, June + 4,Tammuz, July + 5,Ab, August + 6,Elul, September + 7,Ethanim, October + 8,Bul, November + 9,Chisleu, December. Thus fulfilling the prophecy of Heggai 2:15-19, Jesus the Cornerstone was indeed born on December 25.
---Eloy on 11/6/09


Cluny -In other words, Lee1538, you can provide NO concrete examples to back up your original assertion that Christian saints are pagan deities in disguise.

All you really need is to view the reference I gave you and you will have all the concrete (cement type) examples you will ever need.

Are you afraid you will come up short? Or is it you simply want to be argumentative?
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09


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\\ Why do people believe christ-mas(s) celebrates a birth?
---Rhonda on 11/3/09 \\

Here's one of the prayers from the Mass of Christmas:

"Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God, that the birth of Thine Only-begotten Son in the flesh may set us free, whom the old bondage doth hold under the yoke of sin."

What do YOU think this is celebrating?

So, why does Rhonda believe it celebrates a death?
---Cluny on 11/5/09


Cluny ... They are all dodging the issue!!

It matters not whether: Christmas was imposed on a previous celebatory day, or that it may be at the wrong time of the year.

The fact is that Christians on 25th December actually do celebrate Christ's birth. To say that they celebrate something else is total rubbish. Ask any of them.

Lee, Rhonda, Pastor Jim, Rosalie, StrongAxe and all the others will find no Christian who on Christmas Day celebrates a pagan festival, or the death of Christ.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/5/09


\\Cluny - simply google {Christmas pagan origins} and read for yourself if you need some evidence that many of the Christian holidays we celebrate have their origin in paganism.
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09\\

In other words, Lee1538, you can provide NO concrete examples to back up your original assertion that Christian saints are pagan deities in disguise.

StrongAxe--your comment about St. Brigid of Ireland has been refuted as a canard by others.

In the meantime, there is NO evidence from Rhonda to substantiate her assertion that Christmas celebrates the death of Christ.
---Cluny on 11/5/09


The friendly blogger, you wrongly discount the gospel witnessed by Luke, but we Christians rightly hold every book in the Bible as Holy. Therefore you easily dis the truth because you do not accept the fact that Luke was inspired by the Holy Spirit, as every writer of Holy Writ is inspired by God himself to write the his words of Truth. That said, you compare Luke's holy scripture with the rest of the holy scripture and you will not find any thing amiss, for all of God's Word is a harmonious composite of one recorded truth, dictated by the Lord firsthand himself and recorded by the scribes word-by-word, from Genesis completely through to Revelation, and also including Luke which contrary to your words he has recorded many details.
---Eloy on 11/5/09


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Eloy please show us Chistmas Dec25th in scipture.

Is the Roman Emperor Contantine (who you follow) Biblical or Non-Bibical?

Are the Holy Days God decreed in scripture Biblical or Non-Biblcal?

Please answer this.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/5/09


Lee, I have zero reliance upon all and any lost nonChristian scholars whose beliefs are proven to be false and anti-Biblical. Yet every real born-again Christian will believe this same truth which I believe concerning the holidays historically recorded in the holy scriptures. You see, when NONBiblical scholars adopt nonscriptural ideas and try to "mix" or "misasert" other outside myths or beliefs or religions before the established histroical truth, then no matter how much time they invest in their mixture of falsehood, the end result will always be false and not according to truth nor according to the Bible.
---Eloy on 11/5/09


eloy -**It is a falsehood that pagans started the holy days, and christians just adopted them by adding christian embellishments.

I am doubtful that you will be able to find any reputable Biblical scholars that will agree with that position.
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09


Cluny - simply google {Christmas pagan origins} and read for yourself if you need some evidence that many of the Christian holidays we celebrate have their origin in paganism.
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09


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For Christ to be a Jewish Messiah and the second Adam he has to be born on the anniversary of the creation of the first Adam Rosh Hashanah and he met the requirement.

Luke is very good for theology but very week for technical details. Luke was a Greek not a Jew, he was not a Christian until Paul converted him. He is weak in Jewish religious and social customs. His accounts about Christ come for multi-handed sources and are enough after the fact to suffer from significant embellishment. He does not become an eye witness to events until the later part of Acts. Luke is not a gospel, rather a long two part private letters to a Roman identified as Theophilus , The order of events and who was there does not conform to other gosples.
---The_Friendly_Blogger on 11/5/09


Lee1538, It is a falsehood that pagans started the holy days, and christians just adopted them by adding christian embellishments. On the contrary, the truth is that Christmas was started on December 25, 5 B.C. when Christ's birth on earth was celebrated by the magi, and Christ-mas has zero to do with mythra nor pagans nor santy clause nor reindeers nor elves. And like wise Passover was instituted 2,669 years after Adam was created, when Moses was 80 years old in 1525 B.C.and the Astarte idol has nothing to do with Pasover, and the Easter bunny has zero to do with Easter and Jesus' resurrection day.
---Eloy on 11/4/09


Cluny:

For example, there is the pre-Christian pagan Irish goddess Brigid, who became transformed into the Catholic St. Brigid - who coincidentally shares many of the same attributes. Similar things happened in many other cases when Christianity encountered other pagan cultures - strong local deities were replaced by Christian saints who subsumed those deities' attributes, so their followers could gracefully transition to the new religion.
---StrongAxe on 11/4/09


Lee1538, It is a falsehood that pagans started the holy days, and christians just adopted them by adding christian embellishments. On the contrary, the truth is that Christmas was started on December 25, 5 B.C. when Christ's birth on earth was celebrated by the magi, and Christ-mas has zero to do with mythra nor pagans nor santy clause nor reindeers nor elves. And like wise Passover was instituted 2,669 years after Adam was created, when Moses was 80 years old in 1525 B.C.and the Astarte idol has nothing to do with Pasover, and the Easter bunny has zero to do with Easter and Jesus' resurrection day.
---Eloy on 11/4/09


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Jim, you err in making your own private interpretations from scripture. Jesus was not 2 years old when the magi came and offered gifts to baby Jesus, for he was an infant. And when the magi did not return to Herod, he was angry and went and killed all the children 2 years old and younger, not just to make sure he killed baby Jesus as some wrongly suppose, because in his anger he killed also all the girls 2 years old and younger, sparing none.
---Eloy on 11/5/09


\\And the various pagan god & goddess were given the names of Christian saints. \\

And can you give an example of this, please?
---Cluny on 11/4/09


The early church simply 'Christianized' the pagan holidays in their conquest of pagan religions. In doing so, they took December 25 which was a pagan holiday and made it the birthday of Jesus. And the various pagan god & goddess were given the names of Christian saints.

Christ was really born sometime in August according to Biblical scholars. But with the celebration of the birth of Jesus on the 25th December we are merely observing that tradition established by the church.
---Lee1538 on 11/4/09


\\ Read scripture Elroy, not traditions of men. You said ALL Christian celebrate Christmas. Not true. About 1/2 do not!\\

And what is your source for this statistic, Pastor Jim? (I don't expect you to give it from the Scriptures.)

The only church that, to my knowledge does not celebrate the Nativity of Christ on 25 December is the Armenian Orthodox, who celebrate the Incarnation on 6 January.

(JWs and such don't count. They are neither Christians nor churches.)
---Cluny on 11/4/09


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Read scripture Elroy, not traditions of men. You said ALL Christian celebrate Christmas. Not true. About 1/2 do not!

Now to Scripture... The Majis who followed an angel (Star). Jesus was nearly 2 years old when they arrive. Not at the Manger, but a Marys house (actually at her relatives house). They were lead to view a fulfillment of a prophesy for the Eternal King. The reason why, is not told to us in scripture.

NOW I NEVER EVER SAID NOT TO CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST! I said he was born in Sept, and if your are incline to celebrate his birth(I DO) then celebrate his real birthday, not a Roman Pagan holiday decreed by a Roman Empire, but a holiday decreed by GOD. The decision is yours...
---Pastor_Jim on 11/4/09


Jesus was 6 months younger than John the Baptist. We know this from Luke 1:36 when Mary, just after being 'overshadowed' by HS, visited Elizabeth in her 6 month pregnancy with John. Jesus' conception in Mary's womb was therefore 6 months after Zechariah (John's father) was told that Elizabeth will give birth to John. Lu.1:11-13

Zechariah was serving as Priest at the time of the angel's visit, as Lu.1:5 reports-'of the division of ABIJAH'.

The point being is that, according to scripture, Jesus was born 15mths after 'the division of Abijah'(6mths+9mths).

The scriptures thus put Jesus' birth at the end of Sept, beginning of October.

25 December has never been 'christian'. It is the celebration of the Roman Saturnalia.
---David8318 on 11/4/09


.cluny, Hanukkah (Hb: dedicating). Feast of Dedicating, Festival of Lights. Started by the Maccabees in 165 B.C., 4 generations before Christ was born, after their victory over the Syrians. It is a 8 day Jewish holiday starting on the 25th of Chisleu (December 25), commemorating the rededication of the Temple by Judas Maccabeus. Happy Hanukkah displays lighting the menorah (Hb: candlebranch, from meorah, "lights"), an 8 branched candlestand with the added candle used to kindle the other candle or candles in the menorah, on each successive night of the festival. Remarkably, 8 score after Hanukkah began God laid the Cornerstone of The Temple, Jesus Christ the Light of the world, born on December 25.
---Eloy on 11/4/09


Jim, you speak falsehood, each year every real Christian across the land celebrates their Lord's birth, even if it is in memory only. But many whom call themselves Christian, but in truth they are not, and these may celebrate santy clauses, reindeers, and whatever other things they desire.
---Eloy on 11/4/09


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Christmas was not started by any roman empire hundreds of years after the first birthday, but according to the scriptures Christmas was started by the magi. lit.Gk: "And they went into the lodging, and found the infant with Mariam the mother of him, and kneeled down and worshipped him. And opening their treasures, they offered to him gifts: amber, libani, and sweet myrrh." Matthew 2:11.
---Eloy on 11/4/09


\\Jesus never command in the bible that we celebrate his birthday.\\

And because He didn't command it, we can't do it?

He didn't command revivals, invitation hymns, or altar calls, either.

//Like Christmas tree, Santa Clause, Reindeer, what is the relationships of this things to Jesus Birth? //

Santa Claus (note the proper spelling) is the American transformation, through Dutch, of St. Nicholas, whose feast day is 6 December.
---Cluny on 11/4/09


As I said elsewhere, I realize that objective truth, especially about the Roman Catholic Church, means little to some people who have their minds made up.

However, the English word MASS is from the Latin word MISSA (cognates are found in most European languages), which is related to the word MISSIO (probably translating the idea of the Greek word LEITOURGIA).

Its use as a liturgical name for the Eucharistic service of the Latin church comes from some of its final words in Latin: "Ite missa est," which can be loosely translated as "Go. Mission accomplished."

Therefore, the real question is not why people believe Christmas celebrates a birth, but why Rhonda believes it celebrates a death.
---Cluny on 11/4/09


\\Christmas is the holiest Pagan Holiday. It celebrates the gods of light. They added Jesus to the list, because they heard he was also a god of light. It is a day to appease the gods of light in hope they will return after winter. So they burn a Yule log all night and bring in an Evergreen tree in the home. Jesus was born in Sept during the High Holy days. Now dubbed Jewish Holidays". Easter is pagan holiday for the goddess Ister. Goddess of the rising sun, worhsipped by sunrise service on a mountain top.
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/3/09\\

Since Pastor Jim is repeating the same stuff--and by his own words elsewhere, all pastors know is rubbish--is it necesssary to refute the same things all over again?
---Cluny on 11/3/09


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Jesus never command in the bible that we celebrate his birthday. His command is to Love one another. Today the essence of Jesus birth were so far beyond how Christ+mass originated. Like Christmas tree, Santa Clause, Reindeer, what is the relationships of this things to Jesus Birth? There were nonsense. Jesus Birth is not Dec. 25...Its October 2, 7 BC.
---ROSALIE on 11/3/09


Not quite Eloy!

Christmas is definitely NOT celebrated by all Christians. Christmas was a decree of King Constantine, and the name Christmas was adopted later c~A.D. 500. by the Catholic Church. Now since Jesus was born in Sept.(Nissan) during the harvest (which is why the inns were full) He was born either Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) or Sukkot (First fruit and gathering of the Harvest). These are in the The Days of Awe (High Holy Days) the days when God opens the Book of Life in the OT. Now fulfilled by Christ. So do you follow Roman Emperor Constantine or God?
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/3/09


Another anti-Christmas posting. This is boring, but nevertheless in reply: Because the name Christ-mas ( s ?), literally means festival of Christ. All Christians around the world anually celebrate the birth of Christ on Christmas.
---Eloy on 11/3/09


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