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Can You Afford Obamacare

How do you feel about Obamacare being shoved down our throats? Do you think we can afford this?

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 ---Jim on 11/8/09
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While there is both good and bad in our health system, I do know there are no H1N1 vaccine lines in the U.K.
The groups who are mostly at risk are called first with appointments in an orderly system. There are no shortages or horror stories about Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street firms having a special stash.


Some would have you believe their are lines in the England and most of Europe for almost all needed health care. Don't believe it for a minute.
---larry on 11/19/09


I'll be very disappointed if any insurance, government or otherwise, mandates this. (I speak as a 5 yr, survivor of breast cancer).
None of the members of the "committee" was a physician. They decided this on the basis of "science", meaning STATISTICS. If you are a 40yr. old it's cold comfort to know that fewer women forty have breast cancer than those fifty or over.

This is the way medical decisions are made in the UK and Canada. One of the best things about the practice of medicine in the USA, is that tests and treatment are individually decided...by the patient and her physician.
---Donna66 on 11/19/09


The new gov health task force now says that women should not get mammograms until they are in their 50's. How do you like the change now?
---wayne on 11/19/09


Donna ... yes

In the year of 9/11, there was probably not a single insurance company in the whole world which made anything but a huge loss, because there were all sorts of other major physical catastrophes, and also further escalation in compnesation awards.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/13/09


AlanofUK. I believe it is about the same here.
Actually, the oil companies make HUGE profits, but a small profit MARGIN!--Big difference. Google and other similar sites are much more profitable, but "big oil" is politically more advantageous to blame for whatever.

I believe the same may be true for insurance companies. When it's convenient to blame them...they make "obscene" profits.

Nobody wants people to go without medical care. But I'm not sure it requires a complete system overhaul to fix things. The trillion dollars they will be spending could
sunsidize quite an ongoing fund to buy insurance for those who can't afford it.
And existing insurance companies could bid on it.
---Donna66 on 11/12/09




Rod4Him -- Ah, at last, the voice of reason!
I agree. Congressmen hire readers to read bills that they themselves haven't time to read. Maybe they could hire a few "editors" to condense what is written and put it in reasonable, intelligible language.
---Donna66 on 11/12/09


alan, I believe the profit margins are similar in the US. If the profit margins were large like the oil companies, we would hear more about it.

One of the governments' job is to regulate.

We need reform, and we a broad public debate on the solutions, not 1,200 pages that no one person seems to understand.

Caution needs to be the topic when reforming health care. Whenever a law/legistration passes, there are untold ramifications that result.

How about passing one issue at a time so everyone can undertand it and deal with it?
---Rod4Him on 11/12/09


Obewan, I was just praying for your health.

No reasonable person believes we can recover with Texas and other large states boasting 25% uninsured rates. Those who have insurance pay for the uninsured anyway, what are they drinking to think doing nothing will hold down their own costs? The sky is not even the limit.
When emergency rooms are as crowded as Giant stadium some one will pay attention.
Who on this blog who could afford a 12-20 thousand dollar premium each year if their employer didn't offer insurance? And believe me prices will get high enough where insurance will be your own responsibility. The conservative Heritage Foundation believes premiums will exceed $20k for a family policy in just a few years, what then?
---larry on 11/12/09


obewan, Buy that mail carrier a Superman suit. 300 condos, 15 minutes = 20 per minute that's 1 every 3 seconds. How do you know they are delivered correctly? Do you check all 300?
Then you have knowledge of 300,000,000 other places? You win the Superman suit. It's in the mail.
Try to mail a set of kitchen knives or fishing hooks through the mail for a Christmas or birthday present.
Neither the PO or UPS will not leave items that need to be signed for if no ones home.
If federal law would allow UPS/FedEx could deliver 1st class mail better job also.
You are getting this per e-mail. I wouldn't want you getting it when you weren't home. You know, the lights are on but no ones home........
---Elder on 11/12/09


When I was a little boy(about 65 years ago) I first heard of a penny postcard. I asked my mother how can it be because it cost more than a penny to send us mail? And my mother said of course it cost more but it is a service for the people by the government. Sadly I must report that our government no longer is the servant of the people!!!!
---mima on 11/12/09




Larry ... I did not know anyone else but me
was facetious around here.

Obewan ..."They (insurance companies) are motivated by greed and will manipulate statistics to ensure huge profits"

I worked for one, and that's just not true. Profit margins were around 2% in a good year, and that leaves very little spare to build up reserves for a bad year.

Mind you that's in the UK ... I don't know about US companies.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/12/09


Larry, right on. You are so correct if the post office ran like it should we wouldn't need UPS or FedEx. ---Elder on 11/11/09

You can't be serious. The post office gets over 300,000,000 pieces of mail properly delivered each and every day.

Where else can you send a letter all the way across the country in only 4 days for only $0.44? I am amazed they do as good a job as they do. One guy comes to around 300 condos where I live and in only 15 mins gets all the mail in the right slots.

Even UPS is teamed with the post office now. They have a service called "Mail Innovations". I use it and it works better than UPS because the mailman will leave it when I am not home. (Unlike UPS)
---obewan on 11/12/09


Larry, right on. You are so correct if the post office ran like it should we wouldn't need UPS or FedEx. We got along just fine for years without them. The government made big business for them in 1964 trying to correct a problem that didn't exist. Of course it was because of one idiot action that happened. Today the government still can't tell anyone what really happened.
And you know if the government bureacraps had their way with free enterprise we wouldn't have these companies anyway.
---Elder on 11/11/09


Alan, I was being facetious with the anti-government wing nuts who hypocritically both demand government crack down on abortion and IGNORE Romans 13:1-2.

Actually Obewan's last entry says it all and that brother is going on my prayer list right now. But for the grace of God......

I will admit the current health care bill stinks and itself needs to be reformed, but just opposing all health care reform just because the government involved is short sighted.

Its like saying we don't need FedEx and UPS because we have the Post Office.
---larry on 11/11/09


Elder -- I, too, have heard more than one doctor talk about quitting the practice of medicine, if we end up with government health care. Of course they were old enough to retire anyway but hadn't planned to so soon. The AMA doesn't represent a majority of doctors (mostly the younger, least experienced ones). Look for a severe Doctor shortage if the healthcare bill passes.

The H1N1 vaccine is a foretaste of government medicine. They scare everybody about a pandemic, but supply enough vaccine for only a few of those who need it.

Pastor Herb--I don't count on any Gov't promises I've heard this year coming to pass...Unless I've missed something...I don't think any of them have. 1012 is coming!
---Donna66 on 11/11/09


Leon, in limited word posting I can't tell every detail. Many doctors I spoke to will quit all together. I don't expect you to believe that because it is truth and not fantasy. We can have all kinds of specialist. When we need a family practice doc many will be gone.
VA medical care cost me more than a private doctor. I get prescriptions cheaper at Wal-Mart.
What I was stating had nothing to do with VA. It was about government promises made that were not kept.
Nothing that the government has touched concerning the public has run smoothly. You can be foolish enough to think that health care will but funerals will be cheaper and more frequent. Do you think anyone who would kill a baby born alive will care for an old man like you?
---Elder on 11/11/09


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"Every general practice Doctor I have spoke to [?]...said they will quit if a bill passes like proposed." Elder, 11/9

Have you been polling general practioners? Pray tell, did the alleged disillusioned docs also tell you what they would be doing after they "quit" their lucrative practice -- flipping burgers, sacking grocery, radio squawk show hosts? :)

Regarding "retired military", like me, can you say VA (Veterans Administration Hospital/Outpatient Clinics?

Herb: You wouldn't know a great deal if...

Yada, yada, yada! You guys are such fearmongering whiners. That's not healthy on many levels. Take care! :)
---Leon on 11/11/09


Where in the constitution does it say that everyone deserves health care? Our Federal Government has gotten too big. They think they have unlimited powers when the constitution only gives them limited power.
---Pastor_Herb on 11/11/09
Your point is not relevant. You could use the same arguement on many issues.

Where in the constitution does it say we are entitled to police or military protection, or to public roads, or to public busing, or to a public school system...yada yada yada...

We enjoy many public services that are not in the constitution and that are efficiently provided by our government.
---obewan on 11/11/09


Health insurance cost money. It's a statistic issue. So many people spend money each year for health care, and a group of people pool their money for the unfortunate few. Great so far. Good idea.

However, the millions without insurance need insurance and don't buy insurance for whatever reason. Who's going to pay for that?

Yes, government needs to regulate, but to take over????

One major problem, notice on a medical bill that the insurance company pays less than I would if I didn't have insurance. So the ones less able to pay pay more. ????
---Rod4Him on 11/11/09


Pastor Herb,

Yes, if people don't have money for healthcare let them get sick and maybe die. Or if someone has a condition that treated can keep them productive and happy, but they can't afford healthcare, let them become disabled, unproductive, and unhappy. If a soldier comes back damaged, let him sleep under a bridge. This socialism stuff is not good.

'God' provides for those who he has chosen,...who are we as a 'Christian nation' to get in his way?

If you got yours and I got mine, why care about other people? They are 'other' people aren't they? Thanks you have made me see the 'light'...
---atheist on 11/11/09


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Where in the constitution does it say that everyone deserves health care? Our Federal Government has gotten too big. They think they have unlimited powers when the constitution only gives them limited power.

All of congress is up for re-election in 2010 and one third of the senate. Lets replace them all and require term limits for them. I cant spend my way out of debt, nether can the government. Lets send them a message come election day.
---Pastor_Herb on 11/11/09


Nurserobert, while you stand around with your hand out waiting for the government to tell you what to do and how to live realize that the nasty Nancy's and those like her don't think you are smart enough to figure it out on your own.
Maybe they are right but know this, I receive nothing that the government "gives" me. I have worked for everything that I have and get from anywhere. I was forced to pay into social security, taxed on my wages then taxed on payments received. Taxed on federal, state, sales, luxury, roads, schools, tolls, licensees, private property, tags, dogs, building, and recreation then you say the government is going to "give" someone something.
Hey, ya wanna buy the Golden Gate bridge?
---Elder on 11/11/09


Let's see, Elder. Government is bad as long as they leave you alone.

---NurseRobert on 11/10/09

Shouldnt post at midnight after working... too tired.

should read.. Let see, Elder, Goverment is ok as long as they leave you alone..
---nurserobert on 11/11/09


NurseRobert - What I said is that once you are 25, if you have insurance, then no company can deny you. So if you change jobs, or your company cancels your insurance, you would need to show that you have been covered up to that point and therefore would qualify to purchase insurance from another company. Obviously you would have to have a period of time to do that, such as 30 or 60 days.

duane - Socialized medicine is NOT the way to go. NOTHING the government does is cost effective. Government programs invite fraud, misuse of funds, a bunch of idiots making decisions about YOUR life, etc.
---Gary on 11/11/09


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Pres. Obama is the one equating health and auto insurance. Either he's dumb or he thinks we are all dumb. Car insurance is not mandated by Congress. Your state requires it only if you plan to drive a car. The required minimum covers other people from costs incurred by your actions. It doesn't cover you.

People like Larry who talk about "government" evidently don't grasp the distinction between the Federal, State and local governments. The Federal government is given very limited powers over lives of citizens. Nothing in the Constitution empowers the Feds to order citizens to purchase a product or service. What's next, a mandate that all must buy 2 gallons of milk weekly and 12 oranges monthly? And your car must be GM.
---ralph7477 on 11/11/09


Ill say it again, We need socialized medicine. Get rid of insurance companies.
We have a tax just for medical care.
Its a no brainer.
---duane on 11/11/09


Let's see, Elder. Government is bad as long as they leave you alone.

While they are at it, they can send you money and pay for your healthcare. BUT, they shouldn't send any one else any money, nor pay for THEIR health care..

Yep.. sounds fair to me.
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


The ONLY way I can see requiring insurance companies to accept those with a pre-existing condition
---Gary on 11/10/09

So then, Gary, what do you do with the 50 year old diabetic who lost his job and no insurance company will cover him?

Or the 45 year old with MS, who's company stopped offering insurance?

and my personal favorite:

Health insurers WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group and Assurant Inc. canceled the coverage of more than 20,000 people, allowing the companies to avoid paying more than $300 million in medical claims over a five-year period.

You can get cancelled because they can.. then what?
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


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"Did you also drop medicare and send your SS check back?" -- NurseRobert
Why should anyone send anything back anywhere since they were forced into paying years for the entitlement? It was promised by FDR that only a small part of wages would be taxed for SS and you did not have to participate if you didn't want to. Well, you see don't you? Sounds a lot like the Obama death... err, I mean health care.
Boy talk about a stripped wingnut... yea.
---Elder on 11/10/09


I can't believe that my wife, who is a nurse, came home and told me that her hospital needs quite a few forms from our records for our insurance. We need copies of our birth cirtificates for our kids, a letter from my son's college proving that he is in school as well as a copy of our marriage license... how about the illegals? What do they have to produce in order to get insurance? All they have to do is cross the boarder, or walk into an emergency room. They know that we will take care of them for free. We have to prove who we are, they don't. We pay for our insurance, they don't. What's wrong with this picture?
Jim
---Jim on 11/10/09


The government needs to be involved to prevent discrimination.
---obewan on 11/10/09

I agree there needs to be some controls on health insurance.

The ONLY way I can see requiring insurance companies to accept those with a pre-existing condition is to have a one-time open enrollment. Then, maybe something like all those under 25 can get insurance regardless, but if you don't have health insurance when you turn 25, THEN it is up to the insurance companies whether or not they will accept you. That's the only fair and sensible way I can imagine.
---Gary on 11/10/09


Why have elective medical procedures such as lasik eye surgery actually come down in cost? The answer is because when insurance doesn't cover something, the patient (i.e. the consumer) actually cares about the price. He shops around, hence competition, hence lower prices.

When insurance, private or government, is going to cover the cost, the patient couldn't care less what the pricetag is. If the boss is paying the dinner bill, most people will order the lobster instead of the burger. People also misuse insurance by using it for basic office visits. That's like using your auto insurance to pay for an oil change or new tires. Costs are ridiculous because most people don't pay their own medical bills, nor do they think they should.
---ralph7477 on 11/10/09


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Are you coming around?
---larry on 11/10/09

Not to your way of thinking. Do away with government? So,
who fixes the roads
polices your street?
puts out your fire?
protects your country?
makes sure you are reasonably safe at work?
makes sure your airplane lands safely?
makes sure you are not held as a slave?
makes sure you have the right to vote and worship who you want?
makes sure no one steals your ideas?
makes sure your bank account is reasonably safe?

Businesses?

Remember -
Triangle Shirtwaist Company?
5 year olds working in coal mines?
Collapse of banking after the depression?

You think we are in a mess now, do away with all government intervention.
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


Karen, someday you will be. You don't want government intervention in your healthcare - then lets do away with medicare.

There is no guarantee, even with healthcare reform, the health insurance you have now will still be around. A lot of companies are "changing the rule" (ask the people who worked for Xerox and Kodak) and dropping health insurance for retirees or bumping up the price so much you make a choice between eating and paying your premiums.
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


Gary, its called community rating. It balances out the cost (some use more, some less) and spreads it over a larger group of people. More people paying into the insurance will lower the cost. Common sense tells us the exact opposite of what you are saying.

Car insurance vs health insurance? Apples and oranges.

Your analogy of insurance after an accident makes no sense either. You think individual, I think of a community as a whole.

No, the government plan is not free, I never said it was.

By requiring people to have insurance, the overall cost to society will decrease.
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


This is a great health care bill. I also have a great house to rent. You pay me rent for three years before you move in and then you can move in. Make sense?? Well, that is how the health care bill works. Plus, If you don't buy health care, you could go to jail. Sounds like a great deal to me.
---Pastor_Herb on 11/10/09


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Thanks for the question Jim.
The problem is math. In Texas 25% don't have health care. By 2016 that figure should be somewhere between 35-40% as costs force full-time employers to drop health care.
The 75% now pays for the 25% and the number of those without health care keeps increasing?
I will go with you Jim that the Dems plan is full of pork, wackiness and waste, but the poor and uninsured aren't going away.

You are correct that Pelosi and Reid don't have much credibility, but the republicans who did nothing over the last 8 years to lower costs have even less.
Railing against government is not a solution for a $14,000 family deductible, so what are we to do?
---larry on 11/10/09


Larry ... I agree with you thtere is too much government interference, but I think you go too far.

For example ... "Its not the governments business to make sure I get to the top of Sears Tower safely"

Whose business is it then to make sure that the Sears Tower in not built unsafely and to ensure that the owners of the Tower do not allow it to get in a dangerous condition?

If you owned the Towere would you regularly maintain the elevators?

Would you trust everyone who owned similar buildings to maintain them properly?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/10/09


The majority of those who cannot afford health insurance now still won't.
---Gary

I have a genetic benign tumor disease. The general population cancer risk is 20%, my risk only rises to 25%.

The insane insurance companies will not insure me or deny coverarage for cancer or charge more than $1000 a month.

They are motivated by greed and will manipulate statistics to ensure huge profits.

In a case like mine, in all liklihood, they would not be hurt if forced to insure me at an affordable rate since I am rarely sick.

I have had two job offers withdrawn in the past when they discovered benign tumors at the pre-employment physical.

The government needs to be involved to prevent discrimination.
---obewan on 11/10/09


NurseRobert...I am not old enough for social security. My husband's insurance provides quite well for us as it goes with us in retirement due to many years in a union. When we get old enough for medicare it will become secondary to medicare. I do support some form of healthcare reform, but none that forces people to take it. The Part D of Medicare has a penalty if you don't take it when you are eligible. But, the cost of the premiums for those years you opt out is considerably lower than the minor penalty they charge.
---KarenD on 11/10/09


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Gary-- I hope people read your post thoughtfully. You are one of few who actually think things through to a logical conclusion! Hope we have more like you in the Senate.
---Donna66 on 11/10/09


NurseRobert, you seem not to understand the obvious. Health care is cheap and government (ignore Romans 13:1-2) is all bad. I agree with Donna, Karen and Rhonda there is too much government in our lives.
The first thing we'll do is get government out of our lives on abortion, gay marriage and polygamy. I don't want the government to take away my guns and if I want to marry another guy or three women its none of the government's business. Solomon had 2000 wives why can't I have four?
All of the stupid government regulations on food, drugs and even elevators just create more beauracracies and business expense. Its not the governments business to make sure I get to the top of Sears Tower safely. Are you coming around?
---larry on 11/10/09


Insurance rates are based on averages whether it be home insurance, life insurance, accident insurance, auto insurance, or health insurance.

Common sense tells us that if health insurance providers all of a sudden are required to accept everyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions, rates have to go up - WAY UP.

Imagine if you could buy auto insurance AFTER the accident. Or home insurance, AFTER the flood.

Why would healthy individuals pay for health insurance when they could wait UNTIL THEY NEED IT? Look at all the money we could all save.

A government plan is still NOT free. The majority of those who cannot afford health insurance now still won't be able to afford it under the government plan.
---Gary on 11/10/09


"If you are an adult in a free society, you will make your own choices and then take personal responsibility for the results."

Good things never happen to good people. Bad things only happen to bad people. If things in your life are bad it is because you are bad.

If you get sick it is because you are bad. If you have insurance its because you were good enough to earn the money to buy the insurance at one time. If you have insurance and go hospital and die its because you were bad since the time you were good enough to get the money to buy the insurance.

But if you take responsiblity and are good nothing bad will happen to you and you will live forever.

Glad we got that figured out!
---atheist on 11/10/09


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We dropped our membership a few years ago.
---KarenD on 11/10/09

Did you also drop medicare and send your SS check back?
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


If you are an adult in a free society, you will make your own choices and then take personal responsibility for the results.
*****

Exactly which is why a government based healthcare is foolish
---Rhonda on 11/10/09


The fact that AARP and the AMA have endorsed this healthcare legislation says a lot. AARP sold out for financial reasons years ago. The very company that actually provides the health insurance programs for AARP is one that will benefit greatly with this legislation. The AMA is looking out only for the doctors. Neither of these organizations is looking out for the citizens of this country. AARP started out as an organization to help senior citizens. Now they have gotten into all kinds of money-making areas which are not helping seniors. We dropped our membership a few years ago.
---KarenD on 11/10/09


Donna, I am glad you are ok and it sounds like you had wonderful care. I don't believe the cost was unreasonable, but you are missing the point I'm making.

You had insurance and your insurance covered this catastrophic medical emergency. A lot of people don't, and there is no way they could come up with the $140k (more if they had NO insurance).

What do we do in that case?
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


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That amounts to $448 an hour assuming you had 24 hour care or $896 an hour assuming you had 12 hours with no care.
---obewan on 11/10/09

Obewan, your assumptions are flawed.

The cost is for:

the hospital (utilities, etc.)
the ICU
the nurses
the equipment
the medications
the ancillary staff (pharmacists, housekeeping, office staff, respiratory therapy, maintenace, laundry)

the cost is actually reasonable for the amount of time spend in ICU.
---NurseRobert on 11/10/09


That amounts to $448 an hour assuming you had 24 hour care or $896 an hour assuming you had 12 hours with no care.

At $896 an hour that means the doctor is worth $1.8M a year.

You call that reasonable? They are raking in $1.8M a year just off of ONE patient. What about all the others?

I would say your insurance company was raped. When I was in the hospital it was only $2000 a day. I thought even that was bad.

A friends brother worked/lived on call in a hospital. His first year out of med school at age 30 he earned $2,000,000. I heard it straight from the horses mouth!
---obewan on 11/10/09


First of all NO ONE bothered to ask me, so I'm going to tell you all that I was in Intensive Care for 5 of the 9 days I was in the hospital. They saved my life, literally.

I was bleeding to death in my liver. They were going to med-o-vac me to another hospital in Philadelphia, PA that did this surgery because they didn't. I had a miracle and the liver stopped bleeding on it's own.
MY POINT IS: Five of the Nine days I was in the hospital, I was in Intensive care, so the cost was reasonable considering the high level of care I got and because they saved my life - I was unconscious by the time the ambulence got me to the emergency room. Put things in perspective before you take my words out of context.
---Donna on 11/10/09


"$28,000 for the 4 days and $112,000 for nine days. I thought that was reasonable.
I am covered by my employer's health plan, not a small business one either..I work for a large company."
Donna on 11/9/09

You would not be saying, "I thought that was reasonable", if you had to coff-up the 28 & 112K. Of that, you only paid the full deductibles. Not even the insurance company paid that. They only pay an "adjusted" amount. A different story if one finds themselves outside the umbrella of a "large company" group insurance umbrella, singled-out!. Atheist described those scenarios well.
---Nana on 11/9/09


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Jim, in quest of accuracy...
A. read the bill. Obama is not the author of a single word. There is no such thing as Obama care which showed his political naivety. You can't give such an important task to Congress which couldn't even close bases 30 years ago. He should have written about a 2 page bill himself. The 2000 page behemoth is a mess

B. In 2004 the Republican Congress passed Medicare advantage at a cost of $4 trillion. Could we afford it then and can we afford one-quarter of that tag now?

C. We've pledge over time nearly $12 trillion to Wall Street and other private financials.
Can we afford 1/12th of that for mostly taxpayers that lost jobs and can't afford insurance now?
You tell me?
---larry on 11/9/09


It would be great if we all go on the same health plan. But why is it that the politicians do not want the same thing they are going to sell/shove on the general citizen/public?
Every general practice Doctor I have spoke to (there are many) has said they will quit if a bill passes like proposed.
Those who have nothing and hope to get something for nothing will still end up with nothing.
If the government thought health care was so important why do the retired military members have to seek outside health care. They used to be able to go to a military facility/hospital for medical and dental. No more. And we used to think that Billy beer and slick Willie was bad.
---Elder on 11/9/09


Nurse Ratchett...er-rrr, I mean Nurseroberts, Who exactly will pay for this health care? Will this health care go to illegal immigrants? What will happen to small business that really can't afford insurance because they are being taxed to death? The government can't even run the post office let alone the new car company they just acquired, and now they want to get their hands on/in healthcare. If the Dr.'s and Nurses can't take care of all of the sick as it is, what makes the gov. think that they can take care of the entire country? What about the illegals in this country. How can we afford this. I am in favor of helping our citizens, helping families with pre existing conditions and families between jobs. Jim
---Jim on 11/9/09


Donna ... I had a reasonable job, and saved, and not wasted money on drink, smokes, big holidays, and gambling or expensive food.

I'm now retired.

I would not have been able to afford 100,000 pounds sterling for that time in hospital.

But I suppose I have been a bit financially stupid in my life, by bringing up four daughters.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/9/09


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Well, the public debt is 12 trillion dollars, but the private debt is more than 50 trillion dollars. That is the debt that ordinary Americans and corporate America owe.
---Janze on 11/9/09


whenever government is in control of anything it is a disaster of red tape ,wasted money, slow and uncaring bureaucrats, and draining to the citizens it's supposed to serve. just look at the legislature that invented it. do you really think that they are listening to the common man?
---jerry on 11/9/09


What is this notion that the U.S is a wealthy nation? We are 12 trillion dollars in debt with well over a trillion in yearly deficits, thanks to big government programs.

Where is the "wealth" that people are citing?
---ralph7477 on 11/9/09


Rhonda -- If you don't want to be "diapered and burped" by government, you will not let them dictate your daily health habits. You will not let them mandate what you can or cannot eat, what you drink, the amount of exercise you must perform in order to avoid "life-style" diseases. If you are an adult in a free society, you will make your own choices and then take personal responsibility for the results.
---Donna66 on 11/9/09


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I got top notch care in the hospital and thought the charges were reasonable.
---Donna on 11/9/09

So then, your insurance company was charged $140,000 for your care. If you had no insurance it would have been much more than than that. Did you have money set aside to pay this bill?

Praise God you had insurance, many do not.
---NurseRobert on 11/9/09


Donna,

So if you were in the hospital for 30 days it would only cost $210,000 which happens to be a lot more than most people pay to buy a house. And most people are making payments on their house and don't really own their homes.

So if you had a family, your house was paid for, you had no other assets, and you had a hospital stay that cost $210,000, would you be comfortable taking out a loan on that home for the next thirty years to pay for that hospital stay? Or if you had no job and couldn't get a loan, would you sell that home and move your family into your car?

If you didn't have the money and didn't want your family to go bankrupt, would you chose not to go to the hospital?

Yes, its all perfectly reasonable...
---atheist on 11/9/09


I tell you no matter how much jesus spoke about not worrying about anything,seems like all people do is consider the flesh first.
---tom2 on 11/9/09


if the money was going to come from taxing all of the poor lifestyle products like fast food alcohol cigarettes candy soda etc which has been considered how will it sustain itself when people stop consuming these products because of the cost?

overweight unhealthy people insured at the same rates as healthy people when the entire medical profession has so much information on poor lifestyle contributing to poor health ...it is PROVEN FACT much of the lifestyle diseases can be corrected through proper health but when the patient wants a pretty colored pill it is given

PEOPLE have as MUCH to do with their own health unfortunately the USA has sunk to an all time low where adults want to be diapered and burped by government
---Rhonda on 11/9/09


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I was just in the hospital for 4 days, released for a week, then back in for 9 days.

I thought my hospital bill was reasonable.

$28,000 for the 4 days and $112,000 for nine days. I thought that was reasonable.

I am covered by my employer's health plan, not a small business one either..I work for a large company.

I got top notch care in the hospital and thought the charges were reasonable.
---Donna on 11/9/09


Jim,

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, except:

If they are sick and without health insurance, let them get sicker and die.

If they are homeless and living in their cars, do nothing.

If they are hungry, do nothing.

Always do nothing if its going to cost something or 'too much', ---that is what a 'Christian' nation is all about, right?
---atheist on 11/9/09


Around the world many nations less wealthy than we offer healthcare to all.
****

in many nations ALL are taxed

many of these nations also have a minimum tax rate between 10% - 25% with sliding scale all the way up to 60% of their income taxed

unlike good old USA who levy little or no tax on low income with middle class facing the brunt of taxes

the reality is no social package for the citizens has ever come in anywhere NEAR the projected cost most more than double the actual cost...reality is US government is INEPT at managing income taxes and every dime sent their way - it is suicidal to lend them MORE money to mismanage under guise of healthcare for all
---Rhonda on 11/9/09


Around the world many nations less wealthy than we offer healthcare to all. Yet we here in the United States cannot do as much for our citizens. Oh yes we can take care of and lend money to the ungodly Islamic nations but we cannot take care of our own people. My my
---mima on 11/9/09


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thank God jesus healed without looking at the profit margin.Iam not saying anything except that its a shame how money spurs developement,and thank God that one day the worlds way wont even be remembered,let alone practiced.
---tom2 on 11/9/09


So, tell us Jim, How do you feel about not being able to get healthcare, because you have a preexisting condition?

How do you feel about insurance companies canceling your coverage because its too expensive to cover you?

How do you feel about not being able to afford prescriptions, because the drug companies jack up costs to make more and more profit?

How do you feel about republicans fighting against ANY kind of change in health care for decades?

As for your hyperbole, just how is this being "shoved" down our throats?
---NurseRobert on 11/9/09


The real question is can anyone who has EVER been sick afford to go without it?

I have neurofibromotisis and have a few benign tumors. Because of that, I am refused health insurance. I am not being treated for any disorders. When I was laid off in 1991, my COBRA policy with Blue Cross (non-profit) was $850 a month. It would be over $1000 now. Because tumors, I was twice refused job offers because they did not want to add me to the insurance policy. Public cancer risk is 20%, mine 25%. I can not be insured against cancer.

I also have untreated asthma but have been refused insurance or had the policy rates jacked to the point of bankbuptcy.

Obamacare isn't about "free" care but stopping some of the insanity.
---obewan on 11/9/09


Tom2--In 1969 candy bars were a quarter That's inflation. In 1969, we did not have MRI's, PET scans, heart/lung machines, artificial hips and knees, organ transplants(except kidney and cornea) .The cardiac defibrillator was brand new....Intensive Care was a new concept. (I was working in a hospital in 1969. I remember well.) Yes, somebody made money from these (that's why they put their money and effort into developing them)... but they have saved lives and relieved pain for millions.

Now, if you think the cost of all this is going to go down because the government (the taxpayers) is paying for it...guess again. And all those new bureaucrats have to be paid too. "Reduce our national debt"?
Dream on.
---Donna66 on 11/8/09


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iam not sure what to do about healthcare,but Iam sure there are segments of healthcare in the us that are raking in money hand over fist,is it right that such profits are made from ill people?hospital beds were 30 dollars a day in 1969,now rhey are up to 5000,and usually start at 1600.
---tom2 on 11/8/09


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