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Did Mary Have More Kids

Does this verse prove Mary had other children after Jesus?
"Mark 6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"

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 ---mima on 11/12/09
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The use of til, etc. is used without a change of condition in 1Corinthians 15:25 *1, Philippians 1:10 *2, 1Timothy 6:14 *4, and with in Acts 20:11 *1, 23:12 *3, Revelations 7:3 *1. In its' 148 uses, *3 heos is used only a few times implying a continuance, Matthew 18:22, 28:20, John 5:17, 1John 2:9. Matthew 1:24-25 *3, could have been written as Joseph knew her not(.), but wasn't. What first or second century 'Fathers' disagreed with Jesus' brothers being the children of Jose and Maria?
*1 til G891 achri(s), *2 G1519 eis, *3 G2193 heos, *4 until G3360 mechri(s).
Ruben, 11/16/09: Luke 1:43, Elisabeth says "mother of my Lord" meter mou Kurios (see v. 47), his physical self, not meter tou Theos, his divine self.
---Glenn on 11/20/09


Ruben...
To this be said,
I do see your passion,
It's huge.

Good questions.
Shalom.
---char on 11/20/09


Context, context, context.
Psalm 69:4-9, "mother's children". While G80 adelphos can mean anything from blood brother to fellow man, the first, natural, and contextual use of brothers in the following verses would be the children of Joseph and Mary: Matthew 12:46-47, 13:55, Mark 6:2-3, John 2:12, 7:3-5, Acts 1:14, 1Corinthians 9:4-5, Galatians 1:19. Not used here are: G431 anepsios cousin, Colossians 4:10 & G4773 suggenes kin / sometimes fellow countrymen, Luke 21:16 - probably cousin in Luke 1:36, 58. The Lord Jesus, and his perfect atoning sacrifice at the cross, are in no way affected by Miriam's actions.
---Glenn on 11/20/09


Rhonda* catholics SERVE their catechism religious Pharisees calling themselves Father and god pope

Show me the Documents where we call Pope a god!

Rhonda* PER GODS HOLY WORD Biblical Mary had marital relations

No, PER Rhonda interpretation of scripture!
---Ruben on 11/20/09


No Ruben, what we are saying is that God says in the Bible is truth. The Bible says she had other children.
The argument you have should not with us it should be with those you follow who have mixed paganism with God's truth making it a lie in some aspects.
They tell the truth. I know because they trust in the Holy Spirit to guide them and it seems to me you trust in man to tell you which way to go.
---miche3754 on 11/20/09

Miche please explain to me then, when you disagree with those who you say are guided with the Holy Spirit and are telling the truth, How can they in a instance being not in God's truth. What make them in truth now but in False when you disagree with their interpretation of scripture?
---Ruben on 11/20/09




Did Mary have other children? Unequivocally no. From the cross, Jesus gave the care of his mother to John which would have been extremely disrespectful to his brothers if he had any---- which he didn't.
---Matt on 11/20/09


(God's Paradox)
Ruben,
your question:
Is Paul giving glory to himself? No:
Paul once named Saul, IDENTIFIES his office change.
Acts 9:1-2[summarized]
Saul request from HIGH PRIEST letters to bring disciples bound to Jerusalem
vs.2 shined round about him A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN:
vs.5 Jesus asked "why persecutest thou ME?"
vs.8...when he rose HIS EYES WERE OPENED.
Rom 11
Paul[IDENTIFIES] himself as Israelite seed of Abraham,tribe of Benjamin,NOW an [APOSTLE] of the Gentiles.
If by ANY MEANS I may PROVOKE to jealousy...
He was blinded with scales,but God removed them.
An Office(MINISTRY):He WAS working WITH Pharisee,BELIEVING he WAS doing The Lords work.
NOW:Scales removed,EYES WERE OPENED.
---char on 11/20/09


Trav,Amen.
Point understood.
Reuben,these were not Heavenly Father but act as if.
Matt23

There should be no problem calling a Priest Father:

Pauls statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:1415).
---Ruben on 11/20/09


Trav,
Love this!
The Aleph-bet Acrostic of Psalm 119 has been a continueous blessing.
The first Letter Tet for vs 66 teaches the paradox revealing good and evil.
Tet suggest hidden goodness,such as a woman who is pregnant with child.It also shows the potential for goodness can be perverted.
Paradox:God saw that the light was good,but separated the light from the darkness,making a distinction.
Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light,and create darkness,I make peace and create evil(calamity).
I the Lord do all these things."
Always look forward to your post.
Bless you brother.

---char on 11/20/09


No Ruben, what we are saying is that God says in the Bible is truth. The Bible says she had other children.
The argument you have should not with us it should be with those you follow who have mixed paganism with God's truth making it a lie in some aspects.
They tell the truth. I know because they trust in the Holy Spirit to guide them and it seems to me you trust in man to tell you which way to go. THat is a gross mistake. Always trust God. Let God be true and everyman a liar.
From the time I could read my Bible, I always saw that Mary did have more children.
I also was not corrupted by an institutions thinking either.
---miche3754 on 11/20/09




Rhonda/Trav are right. You need to look outside the RCC.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/19/09

What you are saying is that Rhonda,Trav interpretation is correct, but I have seen where you have disagree with them on other issues, so who am I suppose to believe when that happens,them, since you say there are correct?
---Ruben on 11/20/09


Do our earthly fathers do this?by all means call your Father,Dad.
Do our school teachers do this? By all means call you Teacher,instructor.
---char on 11/19/09

Amen on yours. This needed pointing too as well, and completes in a sense. They are honored as the earthly, over earthy things.

We should use our sense and ask be given such that is applicable.
David did...he also connected/prayed more than most (me especially).

Psalm 119:66
Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.
Proverbs 8:9
They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
(working towards)
---Trav on 11/20/09


"Pagans" also worship their god, so I guess we(Christians) should not worship Our God*****

catholics SERVE their catechism religious Pharisees calling themselves Father and god pope

bowing down serving a DEAD Mary as "alive" ANTICHRIST to scripture

PER GODS HOLY WORD Biblical Mary had marital relations

PER RCC Queen of Heaven Mary was punished by their god remaining a perpetual virgin same practice as PAGANS Biblically VOID

you simply cannot see - a mind and will GIVEN to religious system cannot SEE plain TRUTH in BIBLICAL Holy Word of God - VOID to their minds they believe truths within THEIR scripture the catechism a loose collection of philosophical thoughts FROM Gods Holy Word
---Rhonda on 11/19/09


Trav,Amen.
Point understood.
Reuben,these were not Heavenly Father but act as if.
Matt23

Saying"The Scribes and the Pharisees SIT IN MOSES SEAT,
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,observe and do,but DO NOT ye after their works,for they say,and do not.

What do they do?
bind heavy burdens on mens shoulders,
All their works they do for to be seen of men,make broad their phylacteries,enlarge the borders of their garments,love the uppermost rooms at feasts and the chief seats in the synagogues and to be called of ,
Rabbi,Rabbi(my master.


Do our earthly fathers do this?by all means call your Father,Dad.
Do our school teachers do this? By all means call you Teacher,instructor.
---char on 11/19/09


Rueban,again:
AND he[knew]her[NOT-till]she brought forth...[1st]born.
Matt1:25 Key words:

*Ginsoka(Knew)
*ou:not,neither
*Till:heos-time of another action,continueous action.

Luke2:36-37KEY:NOT(ou)
And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years,which departed[NOT]from the temple,BUT serve God...
You posted:
/Anna was a widow"up to the point that" she was eighty-four years old.Action of continuance,she was a widow after she was 84 years of old/

I see:She lived with her husband seven years,THEN(heos) widowed,has been a widow for 84 years.
An action CHANGED is indicated, as it is in Matt1:25.

"Departed [NOT] from the temple",indicates NO change.
Matt28:29...Huh?
---char on 11/19/09


you are giving glory to some other person other then YHVH. Wake up!!!!
---wayne on 11/19/09

So is Paul giving glory to himself:

Romans 11:13-14 (KJV) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: [14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some
---Ruben on 11/19/09


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Mary Magdalene had the Matthew Gospel in flesh.
He wrote:12:46-47

While he yet talked to (the people) behold,[HIS mother and HIS brethrens] STOOD WITHOUT,DESIRING to speak WITH HIM.
Then (one said) unto Him,Behold [they mother and thy brethren] STAND WITHOUT,desiring to speak with Thee.

This content expresses the biological and the NATURAL:[mother,brethen]
This content is not biological:(the people),(one said)

This content DEFINES the SPIRITUAL:
For WHOSOEVER shall do the WILL OF MY FATHER which is IN Heaven,the same is MY brother and sister and mother.

You're either WITHIN HIS WILL,or you are STANDING WITHOUT.

According to HIS WILL,who do we pray to?
OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN...
Matt6:9-15
---char on 11/19/09


TILL:heos
Continuance of an action.
And he knew(ginsoka)her NOT TILL(heos)(waited)she brought forth...
FIRST-Born
---char on 11/19/09

Matt. 28:29 - I am with you "until the end of the world." Continuance of Action: Jesus will longer be with us after the end of the world!

Luke 2:37 - Anna was a widow "up to the point that" she was eighty-four years old. Action of Continuance : she was a widow after she was 84 years old
---Ruben on 11/19/09


2. Calling a man/priest father praying to Mary, mother of GOD.
Protestants wise to Protest and leave.
---Trav on 11/18/09


Trav, it reads call no man and also call no one teacher.

So does of us you who have kids, we must teach them not to call us fathers, even if Jesus himself said else where to "Honor your Father and Mother" And at school do not dare say teachers to them because they are not!
---Ruben on 11/19/09


Reuben,

I have 3 brothers and when I say in my town that my brothers are waitng for me at the door They know instintively who they are and what their name is. I really don't need to recite my brother's names each time I refer to them. In fact it normal to just refer to them as your brother or sister.

Rhonda/Trav are right. You need to look outside the RCC. Too many ghost stories about Mary have deluded your thinking on this. Lady of Guadalupe was a Mayan who (after smoking Peyote) saw a vision of his Snake god, the Spanish then put a sword to his neck and force him to recant and say it was vision of Mary. Hmmm?
---Pastor_Jim on 11/19/09


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BTW..
It saddens me to say something in the negative about Mary (Ghost stories of Mary) as she is (in my opinion) one of the most significant sisters in all of scripture. I still wonder what she must think of people worhipping her as a goodees above Christ, the co-redeemer etc etc etc.

I just know how it would terrify me if people worhipped me at that level. Remember Paul and Barnabus in Lystria when that happened.
---Pastor_Jim on 11/19/09


Please explain to me Matthew 17:3 if the dead know nothing "And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him.
---Ruben on 11/19/09

Ever think that it was God that did that?
The dead don't know anything.
This is what God says happens to the dead.
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

God does what he wants with us. I suppose you think otherwise, right?
Do you think the dead can know anything without God?
I believe they were given permission from God to speak because if they weren't, then they wouldn't have spoken.
---miche3754 on 11/19/09


Yes Mary had other children, but then again catholics dont agree, because their popes are more accurate then scriptures are , well so they believe. They believe she is the queen of heaven even though the prophet Jerimiah says how this angers YHVH, but they dont care about this either. For they say its not worship but hyperveneration, guess what its worship no matter how you call it, you are giving glory to some other person other then YHVH. Wake up!!!!
---wayne on 11/19/09


Rhonda* If you read the Word of God without any religious system TELLING you what it says it would be impossible to be blinded to scripture that tells us Mary was BLESSED with marital relations with Joseph AFTER Christs birth and went on to have MANY children

So you want me to believe in "Your" interpretation of scripture, no thanks!

Rhonda *PAGANS honor virgins as goddesses

"Pagans" also worship their god, so I guess we(Christians) should not worship Our God!

---Ruben on 11/19/09


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The dead can't pray because they know nothing. Mary had other children. You can believe God or man's tradition its your choice. I choose to believe God on the matter. "Let God be true and every man a liar".
Leon, Pastor Jim, earl, and others Amen to you for believing God's truth.
---miche3754 on 11/18/09

Please explain to me Matthew 17:3 if the dead know nothing "And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him.
---Ruben on 11/19/09


Leon* YES IT IS Ruben, when read in right context & with an open-mind to receive the truth:

- Jn. 20:18 is explained by Matt. 12:46-50, Mk. 3:31-35.

Unless Mary Magdalene had the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus gave no hint on what He meant about "Brothers", again not crystal clear as you want!
---Ruben on 11/19/09


If you read the Word of God without any religious system TELLING you what it says it would be impossible to be blinded to scripture that tells us Mary was BLESSED with marital relations with Joseph AFTER Christs birth and went on to have MANY children
---Rhonda

AMEN!

Mary was blessed. I thank GOD for her. The Catholic errors that bother me.
1. Going to or through a priest.
2. Calling a man/priest father praying to Mary, mother of GOD.
Protestants wise to Protest and leave.
---Trav on 11/18/09

Another AMEN!
---miche3754 on 11/19/09


Matt 1:25(Principal defined)
And knew her not till she had brought forth her FIRST-BORN Son...Jesus.
KNEW is defined as intimately and clarified in Luke 1:34.
Then said Mary unto the angel,"How shall this be,seeing I know(ginoska)not a man?"

Knew:ginoska
Obtain knowledge of(by experience or effort),to come or get to know.

The greek word OIDA-to know,would've been used if Matt1:25 implied Mary just knew Joseph.
2Cor 5:1
For we know(oida)that if our earthly house etc...
Since Mary and Joesph knew of one another,
Matt 1:25,(know)defined,as [Adam knew Eve his wife]Gen4:1.

TILL:heos
Continuance of an action.
And he knew(ginsoka)her NOT TILL(heos)(waited)she brought forth...
FIRST-Born
---char on 11/19/09


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If you read the Word of God without any religious system TELLING you what it says it would be impossible to be blinded to scripture that tells us Mary was BLESSED with marital relations with Joseph AFTER Christs birth and went on to have MANY children

RCC mind control - their people are actually controlled by RCC's catechism because these people are TOLD to SUBMIT their minds and wills to their god - pope

they follow the lie that biblical Mary was punished in life and remained a virgin - easy to understand RCC is pagan

PAGANS honor virgins as goddesses

LESS THAN 30 scriptures that reference Mary but RCC through mind control spins these verses to FIT their pagan traditions NEEDING a virgin to honor
---Rhonda on 11/18/09


Sermon on Mary with 125 words or less, that would be Great!
---Ruben on 11/17/09
Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 23:9
call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mary was blessed. I thank GOD for her. The Catholic errors that bother me.
1. Going to or through a priest.
2. Calling a man/priest father praying to Mary, mother of GOD.
Protestants wise to Protest and leave.
---Trav on 11/18/09


Ruben,
I am not any denomination.
I believe what the Bible says taught by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says Jesus had other brothers and sisters.
When Judgement day comes and God ask you "Why did you uplift a fleshly woman above ME thinking she could pray for you and etc.?" How will you answer?
Jesus is THE advocate no one else and when the Apostles talk about the saints praying They aren't talking about dead ones. The dead can't pray because they know nothing. Mary had other children. You can believe God or man's tradition its your choice. I choose to believe God on the matter. "Let God be true and every man a liar".
Leon, Pastor Jim, earl, and others Amen to you for believing God's truth.
---miche3754 on 11/18/09


"No it['s] not!", Ruben, 11/16

YES IT IS Ruben, when read in right context & with an open-mind to receive the truth:

- Jn. 20:18 is explained by Matt. 12:46-50, Mk. 3:31-35.

- If you've read G11:26-31, 12:4-5, then G14:4 should be , "crystal clear" in meaning.

- G29 also is self-explanatory Ruben. Your argument is futile. :)

- "MAYBE"?!!! You don't have to guess as to whether or not Jesus had biological brothers & sisters because THE BIBLE makes it "CRYSTAL CLEAR" to anyone who has an ear to hear...
---Leon on 11/18/09


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PASTOR_JIM * Because the Catholics made her a Goddess, Mother of God, Co-redeemer and exalt her above Christ.

Until you show any documents that say Catholics Made her a Goddess or worship her, other wise it (the word I like to use) is your own opinion. About Mary being the Mother of God, I will let scripture answer that for you "And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"(LK 1:43)

Pastor Jim* The Protestants almost completely ignore her. I have never seen a single book or heard a single protestant sermon on Mariam except Christmas. VERY VERY SAD!

Perhaps you would like to give us a Sermon on Mary with 125 words or less, that would be Great!
---Ruben on 11/17/09


Jesus' brothers and sisters as stated in The Urantia Book
James,b.Apr.02,03 b.c.
Miram,b.Jul.11,02 b.c.
Joseph,b.Mar.16,a.d.1
Simon,b.Apr.14,a.d.02
Martha,b.Sept.13,a.d.03
Jude,b.Jun.24,a.d.05
Amos,b.Jan.09,a.d.07,-d.Dec.03,a.d.12
Ruth,b.Apr.17,a.d.09
---earl on 11/16/09


I FEEL VERY SAD FOR MARY!

Because the Catholics made her a Goddess, Mother of God, Co-redeemer and exalt her above Christ. I see this sister running to Christ/Father apologizing for every time someone prays to her and worships her.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF THEY DID THAT TO YOU!!!

How would you feel if you were worshipped like that?

The Protestants almost completely ignore her. Because, after all "Mary is Catholic". If not for her faith, who knows what would have happened. Her faith mimics that of Abrahams sacrifice of Isaac. She was there from the beginning to the cross and in Acts... full of faith. I have never seen a single book or heard a single protestant sermon on Mariam except Christmas. VERY VERY SAD!
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/16/09


Glenn *Over the centuries, Roman Catholics have come to believe that Miriam is the mother of God (Theotokos)

Actually Glen he Bible calls her Mother of God, " And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"(Luke 1:43)

Glen*The Bible and Christianity support none of this. Luke 1:28-30, we honor her for being Jesus' mommy, but like all sinners, she needed a Savior.

Tell me Glen How do you honor her?
---Ruben on 11/16/09


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Pastor J ... "Note that Rubens posts are always preface with "it means" (interpretation). This is always proof when one is preaching Heresy, false doctrine, or manmade tradition"

At least Ruben is honest, and says "It Means"

There are many here who say "It says" and then give, not a direct quote from the Bible, but their own interpretation.

That also is proof of heresy, false doctrine, or manmade tradition. In fact this is more definite proof, since they say "it says" when it does not.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/16/09


Leon * When it says brother[s]...sisters it means they were Jesus' brothers & sisters (sibblings).

Then why did Mary M when told "to go to my BROTHERS and say unto them"(JHN 20:18), she went to the disciples?

Leon* But, the Bible is crystal clear

No it not !Gen 14:14, Lot is called Abraham Brother, he is his Nephew!
Jacob is called the brother of his uncle Laban(Gen 29:10,15)


Leon* There's no indication his brothers & sisters were there. Maybe they were afraid and/or ashamed. As the eldest son, Jesus had taken care of Mary. He likely gave that responsibility to John (his cousin) since none of his other sibblings were present.

Or MAYBE he had no brothers or Sisters.
---Ruben on 11/16/09


Mima* Ruben is in a dilemma, he knows what he has been taught and he cannot conceive that he was taught wrong. And yes his position must always be one of a different interpretation than what the literal meaning to a verse is.

Unless you can tell me why your interpretation of scripture is correct from the Early Church and the Protestant Reformers , than all you are doing is blowing smoke!
---Ruben on 11/16/09


"IS MEANS IS":...Martin Luther
---Pastor_Jim on 11/16/09


And Martin Luther went by 'It is wrritten" and said Mary had no other children!
---Ruben on 11/16/09


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A word of caution and restraint here.
This question was posted in order to let some people think, to get them to look at their beliefs.
Ruben is in a dilemma, he knows what he has been taught and he cannot conceive that he was taught wrong. And yes his position must always be one of a different interpretation than what the literal meaning to a verse is.

Once I was witnessing to a Catholic man. I had just made a statement about St. Christopher medals went out of his pocket he comes with a Christopher medal. He said Sir what you're telling me is mighty hard for me. To which I said I'm very sorry for that but I am telling you the truth. Yes he said I know you are and I'm coming out of the church.
---mima on 11/16/09


Note that Rubens postS are always preface with "it means" (interpretation). This is always proof when one is preaching Heresy, false doctrine, or manmade tradition.

They do not accept "It Said" as written in scripture. Instead they spin by saying 'It means" or The Greek word means. Never realizing that the bible has been translated by over 200,000 experts Pastors, Priests, Rabbis, Theologians, Linguist, Historians, and Sociologists etc for nearly 4000 yrs. Nearly 2000 yrs for the NT.

Yet we are to believe their 'It means"

LOL!

"IS MEANS IS":...Martin Luther
---Pastor_Jim on 11/16/09


Ruben: Yes, it does mean relative (brothers & sisters). No, it doesn't mean "cousins". :) You're taking Mark 6:3 way out of context! When it says son of Mary, it means Jesus was her son. When it says brother[s]...sisters it means they were Jesus' brothers & sisters (sibblings).

Rationalize & believe as you like Ruben. But, the Bible is crystal clear & doesn't support your spin on the truth.

By the way, at Jesus' crucifixion, John was there with Mary. There's no indication his brothers & sisters were there. Maybe they were afraid and/or ashamed. As the eldest son, Jesus had taken care of Mary. He likely gave that responsibility to John (his cousin) since none of his other sibblings were present.
---Leon on 11/16/09


Ruben:) Would you please read Mark 6:3 & explain to us what it says & means? Thanks.
---Leon on 11/14/09

Leon, it means relatives, cousins, When you read other scripture verses that uses the word "brother" it has a wide range of meaning!

Reasons Jesus has no brothers:

In Luke 2:44 when they(Parents) realized he was missing "sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. " Why not his other brothers or sisters?

In Jhn 19:26-27, Jesus commited his care of his Mother to John and not the next sibling .

No where in scripture does it say Mary had other children.

Protestant Reformers who went by the Bible Alone agree that Jesus had no brothers or sisters!
---Ruben on 11/16/09


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Joseph I only gave what I have read on this subject, No person can prove what they want to know about it. It would be ridiculous to try to argue. It does not matter what people believe about all this because it is not part of our salvation. It means nothing to me.
I was just commenting.
---exzucuh on 11/14/09


Exzucuh, Ruben. Glenn has articulated, in an exposition, what I was thinking when I read your response to my post very well, therefore there is no need for me to share my thoughts concerning your rebuttals. I reiterate, I meant no offense, I was simply sharing an understanding from my own personal point of view.
---joseph on 11/13/09


Ruben:) Would you please read Mark 6:3 & explain to us what it says & means? Thanks.
---Leon on 11/14/09


"Straw man argument since it was the RCC that did the translating.....eternal virginity was not introduced until 800 years later." (Miche)

What? You need to study History. The Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos was not first introduced 800 years after, but was believed many the first generations of Christians.

Prominent Holy Fathers of the first centuries (who weren't Roman Catholics) profess it (Saint John Chyrsostom, Saint Basil, Saint Gregory Nazianzen etc), and the third-fifth and seventh Holy Ecumenical Council profess it. It is also found as early as the 2nd century (in the Protevanfelium of James).

Study History. Even your forefathers (The Protestant Reformers) believed it! Go figure!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/14/09


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" The "knew her not till" in Matthew 1:24-25 means that Joseph first had romantic relations with his wife sometime after Jesus' birth. " (Glenn)

Not so! The problem is that people always try to impute modern meaning in the words of the Holy Bible. Scriptures was not written in English, but rather Greek and Hebrew.

If we read Deuteronomy 34:6, 2 Samuel 6:23, Psalm 72:7 and 110:1 (as interpreted by Jesus in Matthew 22:4246), Matthew 11:23, Romans 8:22, and 1 Timothy 4:13, we see that in none of these passages does the word "until" ("Heos" Greek) indicate a necessary change.

In IC.XC.,
---ignatius on 11/14/09


1/2
The concept(s) of Miriam's perpetual virginity, Yoseph being an aged widower, and Yeshua(s) siblings being step brothers came from the partially fantastic pseudepigraph Gospel of 'James'. The first mention of which was by Origin in the third century, who disagreed with it. If she had no other children, it would have been noted earlier and elsewhere, even more so in Jewish society. The "knew her not till" in Matthew 1:24-25 means that Joseph first had romantic relations with his wife sometime after Jesus' birth. 1Corinthians 7:1-17 (:5 means one day), 1Timothy 2:15, 4:1-3, Hebrews 13:4.
---Glenn on 11/13/09


Ruben: Like it or not, Scripture plainly says what it says. In this instance (Mk. 6:3), no interpretation is necessary. Buy the truth, it'll set you free. :)
---Leon on 11/13/09


You mean to buy your interpretation of scripture, no thank you!
---Ruben on 11/13/09


Ah, the question has had its desired effect!
Satisfied Mima?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/13/09

You speak the truth here, Alan. Mima seems to enjoy the questions that stir up strife. He dumps a question then sits back and watches the fall out.
---NurseRobert on 11/13/09


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2/2
Over the centuries, Roman Catholics have come to believe that Miriam is the mother of God (Theotokos) and Gods creatures, coredemptrix, mediatrix of all grace, immaculately conceived, intercessor, to be especially venerated, and in her bodily assumption. And many now say that she is worthy of apotheosistic worship as 'Queen of Heaven', Jeremiah 44, etc. Because some thought that both matrimonial relations and having children was a nearly sinful act, they needed to have a perpetual virgin. They also produced a synergistic mixing of a real Mary and various pagan Roman virgin godesses. The Bible and Christianity support none of this. Luke 1:28-30, we honor her for being Jesus' mommy, but like all sinners, she needed a Savior.
---Glenn on 11/13/09


Ruben: Like it or not, Scripture plainly says what it says. In this instance (Mk. 6:3), no interpretation is necessary. Buy the truth, it'll set you free. :)
---Leon on 11/13/09


PASTOR_JIM * The Bible, Historians, Paul, Peter and Josephus (1st Century historian) all comfirm this. There has never been any arguements about his brothers and sisters.

Because they knew he had no brothers or sisters!

PASTOR_JIM * It is obvious you are a Catholic who for years have strained one's imagination to prove the "Eternal Virginity" of Mary.

There is really strain at all!

PASTOR_JIM * Not worth commenting on!
Total Nonsense!

If you change your mind, I am always here:)
---Ruben on 11/13/09


Like I said Rueben, Nothing in scripture supports Mary NOT having anymore children.
If you look at originals and study, you will find that Jesus certainly did have siblings. Which will you choose? Man made tradition or GOD'S TRUTH?
That is an easy one for me. Not so easy for you since you are believing in a corrupt system that has spread lies and deceit for almost 1700 years to back private agendas NOT God's.
---miche3754 on 11/13/09

Nothing in scripture tells me she had other children, about the man made tradition or God's truth, of course God's truth just Not your own interpretation of scripture!
---Ruben on 11/13/09


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(A Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman) 'till' (until) she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." It is obvious from those verses that Mary did not remain a virgin, and there is no mention of her being barren.

---joseph on 11/13/09

The old "till" or "until" ..Ok

Matt. 28:29 - I am with you "until the end of the world." So after the end of the world, he will no longer be with us!

2 Sam. 6:23 - Saul's daughter Micah was childless "up to the point" (until) her death. How was she with her child after her death?
---ruben on 11/13/09


In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/13/09

Straw man argument since it was the RCC that did the translating. And Emaculate conception and eternal virginity was not introduced until way later! about 800 years later.
---miche3754 on 11/13/09


Joseph was not a young man, He was elderly, he had already been married before and his wife had died. He already had children by her. Mary was given to Joseph because she was at an age that she could no longer live in the temple and God chose Joseph to be Marys Husband. This is why Joseph is not mentioned later in the scriptures because he died of old age. There is no way to know if Jesus had brothers and sisters by Mary of if the ones that the bible speaks of are actually Joseph's children by his first wife.
---exzucuh on 11/13/09


"Does this verse prove Mary had other children after Jesus?" Prove, no.
However, there is no reason to believe that Mary and Joseph, both being young and virile, would not have had children during the course of their marriage, and as it is written "Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: and 'knew her not' (A Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman) 'till' (until) she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." It is obvious from those verses that Mary did not remain a virgin, and there is no mention of her being barren.
Just my thoughts, no disrespect or offense intended anyone, nor any denominational belief.
---joseph on 11/13/09


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Ah, the question has had its desired effect!

Satisfied Mima?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/13/09


The LXX, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures used by the Apostles, includes specific words for "cousin," adelphinos/anepsios, but they are rarely used. The less specific word adelphos , which can mean "brother," "cousin," "fellow believer," or "fellow countryman," is used throughout the LXX, even when cousin or kinsman is clearly the relation described (Genesis 14:14, 16, 29:12, Leviticus 25:49, Jeremiah 32:8, 9, 12). Lot, for instance, who was the nephew of Abraham (cf. Genesis 11:27-31), is called his brother in Genesis 13:8 and 11:14-16. "Adelphos" can be translated "cousin" or "brother" if no specific family relation is indicated.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/13/09


In God's sight God does not acknowledge any family relationship on earth. James and Jude who wrote bible was Jesus brother, but they never say...Jesus my brother. Instead He said I James...the servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. Read at Luke 11: 27
---ROSALIE on 11/13/09


Like I said Rueben, Nothing in scripture supports Mary NOT having anymore children.
It was RCC that did the first translations of the Bible. And, the original language it was written in did not have comas or any punctuations. They could have put what and where ever they wanted. If you look at originals and study, you will find that Jesus certainly did have siblings. Which will you choose? Man made tradition or GOD'S TRUTH?
That is an easy one for me. Not so easy for you since you are believing in a corrupt system that has spread lies and deceit for almost 1700 years to back private agendas NOT God's.
---miche3754 on 11/13/09


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Mima...If Jesus did not have brothers and sisters, whose kids were they?
---KarenD on 11/12/09


Pastor Jim

Yes, there has never been any arguments in the Early Church (1st-10th centuries) about the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos. The first generation of Christians believed in the Ever-Virginity of Mary. Many Church Historians/Scholars(even Protestants ones) will tell you that. The Protestant Reformers believed in it too.

Holy Scriptures does not state Mary had any other children. "Brother and Sisters" mention in the Bible is not evidence. Many Greek Professors (even Protestants ones) will tell you that the Greek DOES NOT support such position.

I suggest you read Mary in the New Testament: Collaborative statement by Protestant/Catholic scholars.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/13/09


"It is obvious you are a Catholic" (Pastor Jim)

Shows how little you know.

Latin/Eastern Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox (and other minor Eastern Churches), and many Protestants Christians(i.e., Many Lutherans, Anglicans, etc) believe, as the Early Christians did, in the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos.

Helvidius, a early heretic, believed otherwise, but Christians has always believed in the Ever-Virginity of Mary.

Believe what you will on this subject. I will just follow how the ancient Greek Fathers interpreted the passages listed and the statements by many Biblical (Greek) Scholars that the Greek NT does not support that Mary had other Children after Christ.

In IC.XC.,
---ignatius on 11/13/09


Reuben,
I won't waste a second talking to a heretic. I have no idea where you get this from. You must be Catholic.

The Bible, Historians, Paul, Peter and Josephus (1st Century historian) all comfirm this. There has never been any arguements about his brothers and sisters.

It is obvious you are a Catholic who for years have strained one's imagination to prove the "Eternal Virginity" of Mary.

Not worth commenting on!
Total Nonsense!
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09


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mima* And next we are certain that the Lord had a brother named James. Galatians 1:19,
"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

In Matthew Gospel it list the rest of the Apostles:
James the son of Zebedee
James the son of Alphaeus

Which James is Paul talking about?


Mima* Let those of us who have been shown the truth, pray for those who have been blinded by denominational doctrine.

Yes Mima let pray for those who are blinded.
---Ruben on 11/12/09


Pastor JIm* miche3754 Sorry, Ruben but the Bible gives a definative answer on this. Jesus did have half siblings.
---miche3754 on 11/12/09

Sorry Miche it really does not!

For example it is safe to say that Mary Magdalene was close to Mary the Mother of Jesus, so she would know his brothers and sister. But In Jhn Gospel 20:17-18 Jesus say to her "Go to my Brothers and say unto them"...But notice scripture tell us "Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD"
---Ruben on 11/12/09


Matthew 13:55
"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"

Matthew 27:56
"Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children."
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09


Pastor Matthew 27:55 tell us that they were "looking from afar" and we know that Mary the Mother of Jesus was at the foot of the cross "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!"(JHN 19:26)
---Ruben on 11/12/09


There are so many things that unite RC Christians and non-RC Christians.

Why do we have all these blog questions which appear to be designed to drive us apart?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/12/09


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Mark 6:3 contains at least two defining implications.
First we are certain that Joseph was a carpenter and we believe Jesus was trained to be a carpenter.
And next we are certain that the Lord had a brother named James. Galatians 1:19,
"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

Let those of us who have been shown the truth, pray for those who have been blinded by denominational doctrine.
---mima on 11/12/09


YES! Here they are...

JAMES (Head of the Church and author of Epistle of James), JOSES, SALOME, AND JUDAS (author of Epistle of Jude(AKA: Judas)). He also had several sisters not named.

Matthew 13:55
"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"

Matthew 27:56
"Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children."
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/12/09


Ruben, notice that verse says "James the less"?
How many men carried those names during that time? PLENTY!!! Just like there were several Mary's and Joseph's back in Jesus time. People having the same names is nothing uncommon or new. There were 3 Mary's at the cross!
The verses that support Mary having other children are-
Matthew 12:46
Luke 18:19, 13:55-56
Mark 3:31
John 7:1-10, siblings went to festival while he stayed behind.
Acts 1:14, talks about his siblings and mother praying
Galatians 1:19, says James was Jesus' brother(sibling)
Sorry, Ruben but the Bible gives a definative answer on this. Jesus did have half siblings.
---miche3754 on 11/12/09


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