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Is Faith Before Belief

Is faith given by God before you believe in Christ?

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 ---miche3754 on 11/13/09
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For it is written #2:
The Word of God has spoken, no one lost seeks after God. Any statements made to the contrary are false. ---MarkV. on 2/13/10

MarkV, that is totally FALSE. You're taking OT scripture and mis-applying it. Everyone is lost, Correct. Yet, there were many seeking and waiting for the promised Messiah who would save people from their sins.

You say one must be born again first, and that OT saints were born again first??? NO!However we see even the disciples were not and did not have the Holy Spirit until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. Therefore, the disciples we not already regenerated before becoming disciples.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/10


Please post #2

Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
---Donna66 on 2/12/10

donna66, again you take scripture spoken to CHRISTAINS who NOW live by the faith of Christ, as our example as WE ENDURE the CROSS, suffer outside the gate. This is talking about the fellowship of His sufferings. OUR walk of faith,producing the works of Christ in us as we LOOK UNTO JESUS as our EXAMPLE called sanctification, not Justification.

Yet, this very scripture is what Calvinism totally ingnores along with what JAMES tells us when it comes to what God EXPECTS from US!
---kathr4453 on 2/13/10


Is MarkV right or is nana?.. let's check the Bible...
MarkV quotes from Rom 3:9-18, Psa 14:1-3, 53:1-3, 10:7, 36:1, Isa 59:7-8.
It seems as if nana is refuting scripture, but let's check context...
Rom 3:9 says 'they'...who are 'they'?
Rom 3:3+7 seems to answer that...the unbeliever, the sinner.
Psa 14, 53, 10,+36 are directed at the foolish, the wicked.
Isa 59 is talking to/about Israel...v2 sins have sepereated them, v4 switches from you to they, but still about Israel.
We were all in this boat before faith in Christ.
--nana has some good verses about the righteous on earth, OT looking for the Messiah, NT believing that Jesus is He...Both by faith
Let's not compare apples to oranges please.
---MIchael on 2/13/10


2
Romans switches here...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God, 26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
---MIchael on 2/13/10


"If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him.I John 2:29.
"And they (Zacharias and Elizabeth) were both righteous, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.Luke 1:6.
"The effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.Jas. 5:6.
"For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them.Matt. 13:17.
Thus, we find that instead of there being none righteous, no, not one, the Word shows the number to be "many.

Care to rethink?
---Nana on 2/13/10




For it is written #2:
The Word of God has spoken, no one lost seeks after God. Any statements made to the contrary are false. No one lost is seeking God with faith, since they don't seek God, much less have saving faith. He is doomed to hell and already condemned, and if not for the Grace and mercy of God they would continue in that path. So, praise be to God in the highest for without His mercy and grace and the Sacrifice of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we all would be heading to hell.
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


For it is written,
For we have previously charged both Jews and Gentiles that they are all under sin.

There is none righteous, no not one,
There is none who understands
There is no one who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside'
They have together become unprofitable.
There is none who does good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open tomb,
With their tongues they have practiced deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips. whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness etc...
And the way of peace they have not known.
"There is no fear of God before their eyes
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


-- Miche :

/// Do you think its all mystical or is by the literal WORD OF GOD? ///

Sister, You keep implying 'Mystical', but it's by the Spiritually Discerned Word of God. Now if you believe God's Spiritual Word to be mystical, then that's your belief !!! .... and as far as avoiding any of your other questions : well, they've all be answered in my first post to you on 2/11/10

Miche, I know nothing of Calvinism, other that the little bit other vent-out about on these threads. I'm not here to stir up more contention and point fingers looking for Calvinism or anythings else other than sharing the Truth of God's Word. So, If you wish to discuss Calvinism, you'll have to do so with someone else. Thank U and God Bless
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/13/10


miche and shawn,
It's taken me awhile to understand your differences,and I'm sure I sound silly but..

Miche, are you seeing in the scriptures that,mankind has free will to chose to believe In Jesus Christ, first, and then the Holy Spirit can teach them?

Shawn, are you seeing in the scriptures that, only those who have the ears to hear[God predestined-kinda]-do?


...just trying to understand these differences.
---char on 2/13/10


John 10:37_38: "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."
A simple appeal to common folk. No heightened understanding or comprehension faculties required to apprehend that seen and heard.
---Nana on 2/13/10




Markv,
God HAS made himself known to us. He came to us in the form of a man called Jesus and he bore unspeakable pain to reconcile all man back to himself.
When he died on that Cross the veil that separated us from him was ripped in two, and when he rose from the grave 3 days later, he released the Holy Spirit that was poured out upon all mankind giving them all access to God if they choose it.
To know this, they must be told this(HEAR). All they have to do is choose to believe it, then God takes care of the rest.
When God sacrificed himself on that cross it was for ALL MANKIND it was not just for you because all mankind are sinners.
---miche3754 on 2/13/10


Shawn,
I know the difference between the two.
In fact both the OT and the NT bear witness that the Holy Spirit was poured out on ALL flesh so that ALL might receive Christ.
You want to sound all mystical about the first steps of being saved (which happens to be what I am talking about) when all it takes is for a person to hear what about what Christ did for them and they believe it(change their mind). The rest after that is God's work.
So it is not me who doesn't understand you. It is you NOT understanding me.

Getting saved is a literal thing. God doesn't give you faith to believe in him. He shows you the facts and asks you to believe him. Once you say yes, Its all God all the time.
---miche3754 on 2/13/10


Michael,
I really enjoyed your post. It is very simple truth about God. Amen brother. Nothing mystical about that. I wish other people would just speak plain an not try to be all "mystical".

Shawn, Really? I am confusing Calvinism? You may want to point that finger at yourself.
Do you really believe God chooses the ones to be saved?
Why not just enlighten us with what you really believe and HOW you think God saves people?
Or are you going to avoid the question?
How do you think his spirit draws you?
Do you think its all mystical or is by the literal WORD OF GOD?
---miche3754 on 2/13/10


Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. "For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? "Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, "that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God"
No man knows God unless God makes Himself known to us.
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


-- Miche :

Sister, The things we speak, are not in the literal words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth : comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual nor is it mystical or complicated. Either you have ears to Hear or you don't. It's that simple !!

You're confusing yourself with all this Calvinism talk. The Truth of God's Word will only offend those who are still trying to embrace something other than His Will : which they call freewill.

Miche, No one said anything about God's Holy Spirit comes in you THEN you get Saved.

You have yet to Understand & Recognize the difference between the Spirit of God moving upon you and the Spirit of God dwelling in you.
---ShawnM.T. on 2/12/10


Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (the promise is given here to the believer by faith)
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
2Cr 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken, we also believe, and therefore speak,
--Faith and belief seem to be interchangeable.
--Both should prompt us into action, not for salvation, but because of it.
---MIchael on 2/12/10


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-- Miche :

Sister, Believing God is a Choice God provided(Life & Death). His Drawing Word TELLS us to Choose Life. Whosoever has ears to Hear this(Rom.10:17), Chooses Life b/c the Heart Hears God saying Choose Life.

The Choice of Life in Christ is foolishness unto the heart of the natural man b/c he's unable to Hear the Spiritual Discernment of God's Word saying to Choose Life. 1Cor.2:12-14

Miche, Glory be to God for Loving us first, so we may Love Him : Drawing us to Christ & giving us the Strength to stand. Meditate on Rom.8:35-39, as far as separating any of us from His Love now that we're Saved. God's Children see themselves as His Vessels. It's the world's freewill that views us as His puppets, He makes follow Him.
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/12/10


Faith comes from literally HEARING God's simple truth's. Receiving salvation is simple.UR making it sound all mystical/ complicated. No wonder people aren't believing God!
The HS doesnt come to live in any one until they received Christ. You have to open the door of your heart first to receive Christ/Holy Spirit. These don't live in you until AFTER you have changed your mind and believe God first.
You are starting to sound calvinistic. Saying that Holy Spirit comes in you THEN you get saved. Thats NOT biblical.
Believing God is a choice. Even after you get saved, God doesn't MAKE you follow him. You submit to his will because you love him and when you do this he helps you withstand all things but he never makes you do anything.
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


-- Miche :

Sister, No one resides Saved in Christ by any means other than Faith, and Faith only comes by Hearing & Hearing by the Word of God : not to be mistaken for physically hearing it. Which is why the natural man is unable to receive the things freely give by the Spirit of God b/c they're Spiritually Discerned, which call for them to be Spiritually Heard !!

It's by Grace we're Saved through Faith : not Saved in Christ, then Faith(Eph.2:8). Any Chose that is not of Faith is sin. Rom.14:23

Miche, Wisdom increases as we grow & are kept in Remembrance by the Teachings & Guidance of God's Spirit : leading us to Understand more of His Knowledgeable Word as our minds are no longer conform to this carnal world. Rom.12:2
---Shawn.M.T on 2/12/10


-- Miche :

Sister, The natural man literally hears God's Word(Christ), but is unable to receive it b/c it's foolishness unto him : nor can he know it, by way of Milk or Meat, b/c it's all Spiritually Discerned. While there are different methods of sharing the Word, there is only one type of Hearing which leads to Faith by which we're Saved !!

Miche, The Spiritual development of the renewing of ones mind, is what determines a Babe from a Mature Child of God. Understanding is derived as we depart from evil(Job 28:28). So, The further we're removed from being conformed to this world, and are transformed by the renewing of our minds, the more mature we are to prove what is that Good, Acceptable & Perfect Will of God. Rom.12:2
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/12/10


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Any thing that is not of Faith is sin. So, whatever you thought you believed-in before the coming of Faith, was of sin b/c you had yet to Spiritually Hear the Truth of God's Drawing Word.
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/12/10

I think you are confused on what kind of hearing I am talking about.
The Bible speaks of 2 types. There is 'milk' and there is 'meat'. Baby Christian and Mature Christian.
The hearing that gets you saved-the literal word of God.Baby, milk.
And once you are saved, the mysteries of God that are only revealed by the Holy Spirit which we receive after we are saved. Mature, Meat.
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


Shawn are you saying spiritual hearing happens before you are saved?

Because when The word says Faith comes by hearing it does literally mean hear God's truth- That Christ is his son, he died on the cross and rose after 3days for sin. Nothing spiritual is revealed until after you are already in Christ.
If this were not true then why does Paul address this very thing to the Corinthians in 1 Cor. chapter 3?
He is addressing Christians that are still carnal and telling them he can't explain some things that are spiritual because they have not grown enough in the Spirit of Christ to understand them.
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


Once again worth repeating in case some can hear now,

Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation. By Steven-rem

---MarkV. on 2/11/10
---MarkV. on 2/12/10


Kathr-- I didn't say anything about Romans 12:3 relative to salvation. And I don't wish to quibble over the meaning of "a measure of faith" or the "gift" of faith.
I do, however, maintain that we could not have faith were it not given by God. And that is not to say we have no part in how much it develops within us.

For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
---Donna66 on 2/12/10


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-- Miche :

Sister, You've asked "How do we receive ears to hear?". We know Faith comes by Hearing & Hearing by the Word of God. So the answer to your question is "By God" b/c the Word is God(John 1:1) : and is why Christ said in Matt.7:24 Whosoever Hearth & also shared John 6:44 !! Read also my response on 2/11/10 to your second question.


/// would you agree - Hear the Word, Believe the Word, have Faith? ///

Miche, No & I've shared that answer through Rom.14:23 & Eph.1:13 on 2/11/10. Any thing that is not of Faith is sin. So, whatever you thought you believed-in before the coming of Faith, was of sin b/c you had yet to Spiritually Hear the Truth of God's Drawing Word.
---Shawn.M.T. on 2/12/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, To claim "After I was saved, then faith", is not sharing the rightly divided Truth of God's Grace and is "Putting the cart before the horse", b/c it's by Grace that we're Saved through Faith : not Saved, then Faith !! Eph.2:8

-- Catherine :

Sister, Glory be to God for your testimony of being led to Christ, but you should Understand that no one had Faith until after Hearing the wooing Word of God : not to be mistaken for physically hearing it. Rom.10:17

Spiritually Hearing God's Drawing Word bring on the Faith which enabled us to Choose Life in Christ : and we have access only by Faith into His Grace wherein we stand Saved. John 6:44,Rom.5:2
---Shawn.M.T on 2/12/10


Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation. By Steven-rem

Romans 4 clearly tell us HOW salvation is given. Abraham, our example was first JUSTIFIED by faith. Nowhere is anything implied that only cetain people receive Justification. Justification is first given by God to those who believe Jesus died and rose again from the dead. Once Justified, (and justification is NOT your born again experience) Remember too God is the one who Justifies the ungodly, NOT THE ELECT.

Yes, ONLY GOD can save/JUSTIFY those who place their faith in Jesus death and resurrection life.

Those who do not understand the doctrine of JUSTIFICATION FIRST are not preaching the Gospel according to scripture.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/10


/the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance/

This part is Wrong!
It contradicts where Christ says WHO SO EVER WILL.

Holy Spirit does not search for already elected because the only way you are elected is if you become part of Christ.
It is being in Christ that makes you one of the elected. You are not elected until You become part of his Body/bride by repentance of sin and Believing Him.
Why you think God would send people to hell because HE makes them to is NOT biblical.
To repeat:
YOU DON"T BECOME ELECTED UNTIL YOU ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR!
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


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Steven rem, another post worthy of repeating for those who have ears to hear,

Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation. By Steven-rem

---MarkV. on 2/11/10
---MarkV. on 2/12/10


. Though faith may be a "gift" from God, He doesn't heap a full measure upon us all at once. Donna66 on 2/11/10
Donna66, teh only time in scripture Faith is being spoken as being given a measure to all is in Romans 12. NO WHERE else is faith spoken of this way. If you read teh verses in Romans 12 you will see it is about our service we do through what ever GIFT we are given in teh Body. This verse is not about intitial salvation.

Please provide a verse other than this where Faith is a gift given...and if you feel this verse is about salvation, please read very carefully. We are told not to think more highly of ourselves. With that, those who use this verse as to teh elect, are certainly thinking more highly of themselves.
---kathr4453 on 2/12/10


WOW! All very good answers.

Donna, I don't like the arguments with Calvinism either BUT Kath is right.

I am trying to figure out how Mark agrees with you on your statement but still believes in God choosing who will be saved?
(I am sure Markv will have an insult prepared):-)

Shawn, ? - How do we receive ears to hear BEFORE accepting the truth?

My thoughts on this are exactly what Christ says. Hear the truth he tells us and it will set us free. Faith comes by hearing the TRUTH- Word of God- First.
So, would you agree that it is in this order-
Hear the Word, Believe the Word, have Faith?
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


Shawn T, thank you again for your answers. Yes, hearing has to come in order to hear and understand God's calling. They come with a lot of wisdom from the Word of God. Peace brother
---MarkV. on 2/12/10


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Faith is Faith.
The measure of faith is given to man.
Faith can be in anything.
Whether it is in-self,false gods,astrology etc...This is worldly faith.
But Having Faith In-Christ we have righteousness In-Christ unto salvation.

When the Seed is planted-Faith In-Christ grows.When One continues to Hear the Word-
The ears are opened to Hear.

The mind becomes renewed from believing self righteousness in the World into-Faith unto righteousnes -In-Christ.
References in previous blog.
---char on 2/11/10


I had no faith when God came to me. All I knew was His wooing inside me which led me to Christ. After I was saved, then faith. Wow, there is a God. Wow, there is a hell.
---catherine on 2/11/10


kathr4453--

I'm not sure what verse in Romans 12 you refer to. I wasn't talking about "faith" as one of the "gifts of the spirit", but rather a work God does within each of us after we first believe in Jesus as Savior. On our own, I don't think it's possible to "work up" Godly faith (though we can prepare ourselves in prayer and meditating in the Word). In this respect, it is a "gift" from God.

I will not discuss Calvinism with you. I know you have strong feelings about it, but I don't want to stir up more contention. Questions about free-will vs. predestination
Have pesisted for centuries.
---Donna66 on 2/11/10


Faith is a gift God gives to all, but we must open and exercise the gift. THAT use of faith is what is in our power.

We all have to start somewhere. God takes us as we are and where we are (think "Just as I am"), but He does not leave us where or as we are if we let Him.
---Cluny on 2/11/10


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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

/// To the OQ of "Is faith given by God before you believe in Christ?" ///

Brethren, God's Word must be Spiritually Hear in order to come into the Believing Faith by which we're Saved : not to be mistaken for physically hearing it.

Any thing that is not of Faith is sin. So, whatever you thought you believed-in before the coming of Faith, was of sin b/c you did not Spiritually Hear the Drawing of God's Word nor did you come to Christ. John 6:44

Miche, We Chose Life in Christ by Faith b/c we have ears to Spiritually Hear God saying "Choose Life" .... no one is able to choose to Believe, let alone Understand, what they're unable to Hear & Discern !! 1Cor.2:14
---Shawn.M.T on 2/11/10


-- Miche :

Sister, 1)Yes ~ 2) Yes, Even though it will offend those who are still trying to embrace something other than or as well as God's Will : which is called freewill ~ & ~ 3)NO !!

1) Faith come by Hearing & Hearing by the Word of God. Rom.10:17

2) 1Peter1:2,5~Rom.8:29-30~Eph.1:4,5,11

3) After that we Heard the Word of Truth(Christ) by which Faith comes, in whom also after we Believed, we were Sealed with God's Holy Spirit of Promise which established us in Christ, and has anointed us by giving the earnest of the Spirit in our Hearts. Eph.1:13, 2Cor.1:21

Miche, I gave the individual verses, but read the whole chapters, to keep them in their proper context.
---ShawnM.T. on 2/11/10


Man has-The measure of faith-standing on belief:Righteousness-In Christ-or self righteousness[world].
Heb 11:1
[Now]faith is the substance of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.
IF-the Faith is In-Christ:Salvation.If not:destruction.
Believers In-Christ-instructions:Rom12:3-4
And be not conformed to this world:but be ye transformed by the Renewing of your Mind,that ye may prove what is that good,and acceptable,and perfect,will of God.
Go I say,through the grace given unto me,to every man that is among you,not think more highly than he ought to think,but to think soberly,according as God hath dealt to every man The Measure of faith.

The faith measure grows-by the Word:ears Open.
Rom10:17
---char on 2/11/10


Faith seems to requires some development. Though faith may be a "gift" from God, He doesn't heap a full measure upon us all at once. -------Donna66 on 2/11/10

Donna66, the faith you are talking about here is our continued walk of faith AFTER we come to the Lord. If you apply that verse in romans 12 to everyone, then EVERYONE has a measure of faith to believe. That totally scrubbs the Calvin doctrine of election. Faith is also one of the gifts of the spirit. Gal 5. We are not justified by the gifts of the Spirit are we?

We also know salvation is not a process of development, but a once and for all act instantly upon belief in the finished work of Christ.

Jesus is the gift,not faith.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/10


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Donna, that was wonderful. I read it over and over and you are so right and another thing you are right on is, we have shewed this one in many blogs. Eloy made a quote today that I really liked when he said,

"KarenD, You are supposed to tell sinners the truth, else how will they ever know that they are on the wrong road to destruction'

His right, all of them with their free wills are on the road to distruction. What do they need? The gospel of Jesus Christ. And even then, there is no quarantee they will believe and come to faith after hearing the gospel. Some will not receive faith through the gospel and continue on the same road to hell.
---MarkV. on 2/11/10


I thought we had throughly chewed up this question months ago.

My personal take on this is that belief comes before faith. On first meeting,
I may believe everything you tell me. If, after a while, I see that that I can always depend on what you say, then I will have faith in you.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Faith seems to requires some development. Though faith may be a "gift" from God, He doesn't heap a full measure upon us all at once. Though we may "believe" many things in a lifetime, chances are, as long as we live, we will always need more "faith" than we have.
---Donna66 on 2/11/10


Miche, one cannot have faith before they have something to have faith in. So then faith comes by hearing. Faith is not something that stands alone waiting for that something to believe in. Faith is believing in something we hear.

How can one have faith in Jesus before they have ever heard of Jesus? How can one have faith that God will forgive our sin, unless we first hear that God through His Son will forgive our sin?

God does not join Himself with a sinner before that sinner is first JUSTIFIED by faith in Jesus Death and resurrection. If one claims they are born again first/ baptized into Jesus death and resurrection life or quickened together with Christ before ever hearing the Gospel first is a lie.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/10



Romans says, If you believe with your heart God raised Jesus from the dead, thou shall be saved. ---

There are three kinds of belief's:
1. With the mind. There is 14 inches between heaven and hell...the distance between your heart and head.

2. With the mind and emotions = demons have this one, they believe and TREMBLE!
( Oh to many have an emotional experience but are not saved.

3. With the HEART (that is your whole being, your will to obey what you believe with your, mind, and soul). This is called FAITH in the biblical sense! OBEDIENCE of Faith is the only TRUE salvation. True faith obeys in spite of the consequences!
---kathr4453 on 2/11/10


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Maybe I should change the question to -
Does God give you faith to believe him and then he saves you?
Does God pick and choose who gets saved and who doesn't?
Does he put the Holy Spirit in you BEFORE you get saved?

Would appreciate scripture in context, to back up what you say.
Please don't just post one verse (cherry pick) because that is not within its context.

Thanks and God bless!
---miche3754 on 2/10/10


So then,faith cometh by hearing,and hearing by the Word of God.
Rom11:17
But without faith it is impossible to please Him,for he that cometh to
God must Believe that He is,and He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
Heb11:6
---char on 2/9/10


if you have faith in God, don't you believe God?

if you beleive God, don't you have faith in God
sounds like the same thing
---michael_e on 1/22/10


Faith is what allows us to believe. We are given faith as a child. When we grow into adults, we let the scepticism and distractions of the world suck that faith out of our lives. Jesus said it takes the faith of a child.
---Jed on 1/21/10


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Jesus said no man can come to Him unless the Father draws him to Me. He also said no one can come to Him, unless it has been granted him, from the Father. John 6:44,65 The Holy Spirit convicts the non believer and/or unsaved of their sins and prepares their hearts to receive by faith the Lord Jesus Christ. As children growing up all of kids knew about God and the Lord Jesus because our parents and Sunday school made us aware of Them. In my particular case, before I was saved I had a worldly faith. The Holy Spirit gave me a Spiritual faith and prepared my heart and my mind to believe and I was saved by God's amazing grace.
---Bob on 1/21/10


The most insidious effect of false teaching is that words have become simple JARGON ('lingo') and have lost their true meaning,....thereby preventing true understanding.

The word "faith" means to have the ability to believe something. I have faith in the laws of physics, but I don't love them.

We are to have a "faith FOR faith" and believe not only that God exists, but also believe that HE REWARDS those who love HIM (instead of love 'the churches').

Romans 1:17
"the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD is revealed through FAITH FOR FAITH".

Hebrews 11:6
"whoever would draw near to God must believe"....

1) that he exists

2) and that he rewards those who seek him".
---more_excellent_way on 1/21/10


Like many who refused to believe [properly], the towns that Jesus had visited already had the scriptures that foretold of the promised Messiah, but the people of those towns refused to "believe" because of the hardness of their heart, so Jesus said "Woe to you...".

Matthew 11:23
"And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day".

Mark 16:14
"for their unbelief and hardness of heart".

Just because a person claims Jesus as savior, it does not mean they properly "believe".

Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 1/21/10


Yes, faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22).

Trey, No there is no listing for faith being a fruit of the spirit in Galatians 5.

Love
Joy
Peace
Long suffering
Gentleness
kindness

Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The fruit is far superior to the Law, because anyone who bears fruit listed above will never beak the Law. This is the evidence of our faith in Christ. This evidence comes to those who are crucified with Christ, No longer I but Christ who lives in me...we bear HIS VERY LIFE in us. This is our sanctification life...not our justification life.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/09


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Trey #2 Please post.

sorry, Faith is listed in Galatians 5. My mistake. However the faith listed here is not in reference to our faith to believe in Jesus for our justification. A measure of faith Romans 12 is also given to those already saved to continue to not only live by faith as our continued life, but faith in operation of our gifts given to His Body.

When you read the verses before Galatians 5:22 you will see the contrast of works of the flesh, and life in the spirit. Romans 8.

Paul in GAlatians is talking to already SAVED people who were being troubled by the lawyers wanting to put them back under law after salvation.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/09


Yes, faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22).

Through faith we are able to believe.

When we are dead in sin it is impossible for us to please God. When we are born again by his Spirit, we then are able to believe his word.

Key Verse:
Heb11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
---trey on 11/18/09


Faith is the manifestation of belief, it is the action taken when there is no tangible evidence . (Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence/action of/for things not seen (ie.)heb 11:7-Noah built an ark (faith/substance)based on what God told him even though he had never experienced what god had told him would come upon the earth. God says in (john 14:15) if you love me then you will keep my commandments.(Gal 5:6) .... but faith which worketh by love. If one says they have FAITH then LOVE would be the action taken which would manifest their Belief. The faith of jesus christ if it is applied to us, by the which we know that we have salvation, is manifested if we have Love for others.
---metuschelah on 11/18/09


Where belief acknowledges truth faith acts upon it.
---earl on 11/18/09


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Faith is the synonym for belief in other words faith is the verb form of belief which is a noun. Faith is a work (2thes 1:11) "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:" So the faith we have is not our own faith, it is the faith of Jesus christ that is applied to us because we can't work for our salvation and faith is a work. It is christ who did the work to save us and gave it to us as a gift.
---metuschelah on 11/18/09


John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/09


kathr4453: "Every soul will stand before GOD and be judged by His word...EVERY"

Every soul, at the second resurrestion, will stand before God and be judged from the Book of Life according to their works.

Gosh, even Satan know God's Word forward and backward that he is able to twist it around and make you believe in a lie.
---Steveng on 11/16/09


exzucuh: "There are two kinds of faith, every man is given the measure of faith and that faith is a gift so that man can be saved."


On the contrary there is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Ephesians 4:5
---Steveng on 11/16/09


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Romans 10: 17 - "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Our salvation is by faith, lest any man should boast.

One man hears the Word of God and has faith, Another man hears The Word of God but has NO faith. Why is this? Is the one who has faith inherently better than the other? (That might give him reason to boast...).
---Donna66 on 11/16/09


Faith is believing in the promises of God. The Promises of God are in scripture. God's WORD. The Promises of God are in the Gospel..God's word. The word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL and sharper than a two edge sword, piercing between soul and spirit. It pierces our conscience. EVERY human has a God Given conscience. Adam and Eve KNEW Good and EVIL ...an awakened conscience between right and wrong, good and evil...Not just evil!!(AFTER they fell).

Is God's word only given to a select few? Not according to scripture. God's WORD is His Word to ALL Mankind!

Every soul will stand before GOD and be judged by His word...EVERY WORD!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/09


There are two kinds of faith, every man is given the measure of faith and that faith is a gift so that man can be saved.

The other kind of Faith is given by Jesus to those who are faithful and they grow in this faith as they use it. It is faith to do mighty
works and miracles. Many are called to this faith but few are chosen.
---exzucuh on 11/16/09


Sandra: "Faith comes by hearing. But it is a gift of God."

Faith is not a gift. God's grace, his mercy upon man, is a gift.


Sandra: "If we believe in and accept Jesus, we have all the faith we need."

God gives us what we need according to our faith. If our faith is weak, He gives us little. If our faith is strong, we can move mountains.
---Steveng on 11/15/09


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miche3754: "Then after we hear the Truth, those that don't believe at first sometimes have to endure serious hardship to be shown the Truth. That was me. I heard it and even believed BUT I had to go through some stuff to really get what God was saying to me."

For christians, the worse is yet to come. I pray that your hardship was enough to get you through the coming tribulation. It is through this fire that a christian comes out as precious as gold. If a christians can endure what is about to occur then they are the ones that will be favorable to God and rise at the first resurrection.

Pray hard that God will protect you and yours.
---Steveng on 11/15/09


lit.Gk: "Therefore faith from hearing, and the hearing through a word of God." Romans 10:17.
---Eloy on 11/15/09


Romans 10: 17 - "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Our salvation is by faith, lest any man should boast.
How can a man hear without a teacher? Faith comes by hearing. But it is a gift of God. I don't like to hear people say, "I hope I can have enough faith to...." If we believe in and accept Jesus, we have all the faith we need. But faith is like a muscle, it needs to be exercised to grow strong. So, exercise your faith and watch it produce fruit.
---Sandra on 11/15/09


We MUST proclaim the message of reconciliation to all mankind so all can hear...This message of good news is...
All men are reconciled to God through Christ. Their sins not counted against them.(work of the Cross). Now all that mankind must do is to turn towards God(repent) believing and trusting(faith) in HIM and what HE did on the Cross. He will then change us(a new mind) and give us a new life.
ITS BY GRACE, THROUGH FAITH IN HIM.

All men have the ability to believe and trust(faith)in something, but we must believe in HIM to be set free.
---duane on 11/15/09


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In an abstract sense, this question can be answered with polar opposite views and both would be true. The children belonging to Jesus were assigned before time began. From an earthly standpoint however, one must believe in God before faith in Jesus can begin. One cannot have faith in something unawares. The dichotomy is that faith for Jesus is also a gift predetermined by our God of creation. This gift does not actualize in our lives until we here and accept the gospel. I will not attempt to explain how free will exists or works in the grand scheme of things because I do not understand it. I know that God chose me and I in turn chose Him. I feel my choice was actually a gift and don't understand it. I just thank God for His free gift.
---jody on 11/15/09


Steven G, I could not agree more!
We have to hear the truth before we believe it.
How can we even know what the truth is without being told?
I believe that is WHY God had the Apostles, and Prophets write everything down. That is why we have preachers, and teachers.
Why else would God give these gifts to people? So that God can communicate HIS truth to us.
Then after we hear the Truth, those that don't believe at first sometimes have to endure serious hardship to be shown the Truth. That was me. I heard it and even believed BUT I had to go through some stuff to really get what God was saying to me.
---miche3754 on 11/15/09


How can a person believe in something or have faith is something without hearing it first? Have you not read the parable about The Sower? Have you not read Romans 10:14-17? I realize that this may be a bit of a chore for most of you, but do an online KJV bible search for the word "faith" and read ALL of the verses in context. You'll be amazed at what you'll learn from both the Old Testament and the New Testament about faith.

And while you're at it, do an online KJB bible search for "one another," "each other," and "encourag" because living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle - not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominaional "churches."
---Steveng on 11/14/09


I think faith is a gift we get from God for asking Jesus to be our Lord and Savior.

The devil can believe Jesus is Gods son, but he'll never have faith in Him.

Thats why noone can boast about their own salvation or judge another as 'not saved'.

Who are we to judge another man's servant as the Bible states
---JackB on 11/14/09


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"Is faith given by God before you believe in Christ?" Yes.

Without faith one would believe nothing, least of all believe in Christ. Faith is a conviction of the truth of anything. There is a faith that has been given to every man, a sensually based faith, determined by sensual perceptions of what was, is, or has been tangibly and successfully experienced.
Concerning salvation, that same faith is empowered to transcend the sensual to embrace the unseen. A conviction or unwavering confidence in respect to man's recognized relationship to Father, based upon His Word, principles and promises. Bestowed upon man to receive and acknowledge the redemptive atoning sacrifice of Jesus, and the indwelling endowment of His Spirit.
---joseph on 11/14/09


About all I know, once I was blind, but now I see.

All the details of how that happened are interesting, but I am thankful it happened.

One explanation I heard concerning this issue is as follows.

Visualize a straight railroad track. Free will is one track, and God's sovereignty is the other track. Look down the track and they run parallel and appear to meet. They are both true.
---Rod4Him on 11/13/09


FAITH IS BELIEF!!! Read Romans 4
---kathr4453 on 11/13/09


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