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Another Great Depression Coming

Do you think our government is leading our country into another great depression? Do you have any confidence in the statisics coming out of Washington concerning the state of our economy?

Moderator - By printing so much money, the US government is sowing the seads for the next asset bubble. When that asset bubble pops, then we could be looking at a worldwide depression. But for now, invest your money in the commodities and stocks that the government has decided to inflate.

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 ---Bob on 11/19/09
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Agreed Bruce, when in doubt visit the Fed's own web site and CNBC as I did. Facts are stubborn. I loved your last blog on China and the debt. BTW, what does your scenario mean for Gold, $3000 an ounce?
We're in a huge mess.


Ralph, I'm not sure why any Christian would spend any time defending conservatives or liberals since neither is an answer for what ails us, and I'm not defending Obama. Like any man he has his strengths and shortcomings. However a look over your recent dollops of wisdom shows a type of vitriol consistent with hate.
Forgive me if you are in fact praying for Obama and all of our leaders as commanded to do by scripture. I do enjoy reading your blogs.
---larry on 2/18/10


James,

China holds US$755.4 Billion, Japan holds US$768.8 Billion. I don't see how this minuscule difference... makes any difference. Besides--if China (and others) stop buying our debt, the FED will monetize it. Howdaya think China'll take to that? A little dollar devaluation oughta set 'em straight: eh?

When these latest increases in "monetized debt" (we have never borrowed ALL dollars from foreigners) start filtering back up the bank-chain (think TARP+), devaluing another few Trillion won't much matter.

Who among us won't like their house worth 10X more? Of course, it'll take $20 to buy a pound of coffee... or a gallon of gas.

But wouldn't an $80/hr min-wage take care of that problem? LOL
---BruceB on 2/18/10


CHINA HAS JUST BAILED-OUT AND SOLD OUR BONDS!!!

Now Japan and the UK are our biggest creditors.
But since both of them are hurting, they may not be able to help us anymore.
---James on 2/17/10


As you wish, Larry. I'm really not one to argue facts, anyway. They seem to have a way of standing all on their own.
---BruceB on 2/17/10


Larry, evidently you are projecting some inner hate that you are harboring. That's the only way to explain how you can describe me as having hate for the president despite the fact that I've been discussing economics exclusively and never even mentioned the president. It seems to be quite a popular defense mechanism nowadays by people who feel somehow threatened by the truth.
---ralph7477 on 2/16/10




While we're on the subject-Financial Times: The US must fix its growing debt problems or risk a new financial crisis, Thomas Hoenig, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, warned on Tuesday, adding a mounting deficit could spur inflation.

He said that the worst option for the US was a scenario where the government knocks on the central banks door and asks it to print more money. Instead, the administration must find ways to cut spending and generate revenue. Barack Obama, US president, recently lifted the governments borrowing authority to $14,300bn.

If the Fed succumbed to pressure to increase the money supply, Mr Hoenig said, inflation would lead to a loss of confidence in the dollar and in the economy.
---ralph7477 on 2/16/10


Thanks Bruce but no I am not confused. The 12 Reserve Banks are the arms meaning members of the Fed. I never discussed the for-profit banks that buy the stock because they do not vote on Fed policy which is the sole duty of the Governing Board. I was responding to Ralph's question as to who OWNS the Fed. Its not B of A.

.
---larry on 2/16/10


Ralph, the GDP uptick is not fabricated and the market, which is not always right, does pay attention, acts and invests on those numbers because it is considered one measurement on the health of the economy.
Since its derived by either adding up how much we all make or how much we all spend its significant.
The 5.7% 4th quarter was the best in 6 years as factories got clicking.
The best news is that rising GDP suggest the economy can be weaned off the government milk you so strongly oppose. Bless your heart, your hate for the president is so intense you'd rather have the economy in tatters than improve on his watch.
Its not politics its math. You're free to hate as much as the Holy Spirit leads.
---larry on 2/16/10


I thought this might be of interest:

Partial list (as of July 27,2009) of primary-dealer banks--the ones chartered to resell Treasury debt:

Banc of America Securities LLC
Barclays Capital Inc.
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co.
Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Daiwa Securities America Inc.
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc.
Jefferies & Company, Inc.
J. P. Morgan Securities Inc.
Mizuho Securities USA Inc.
Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated
RBC Capital Markets Corporation
RBS Securities Inc.

More than one-third of U.S. commercial banks are stockholders of the Federal Reserve System.
---BruceB on 2/16/10


Larry,

I think you have FED Branch Banks confused with member banks, who make up the stockholders. Member banks are "for-profit", such as BofA, Chase, Citi, Wells, et al.

The FED system banks are "non-profit", if you want to consider as non-profit that the Government receives the balance left from FED operations... after all costs of the FED system (salaries, overhead and other expenses, dividends to members at 6% of capital stock, etc: and now, interest on member deposits) are subtracted.
---BruceB on 2/16/10




Larry, the recent uptick in GDP is artificial. It's government driven, not market driven. The "drop" in the unemployment rate is a result of government manipulating numbers, not because more people found jobs.

State and local governments are starting to predict drastic cuts because they've spent all of their stimulus money. Those jobs that Obama claims he "saved" may have been saved for a few months at best. Europe's economy is slowing again as their stimulus programs wind down. Japan just announced growth of 5+% but it's stimulus has run its course.

Meanwhile, big government liberals keep pushing ahead thinking they can solve the problem by passing a "jobs" bill, whatever that's supposed to be.
---ralph7477 on 2/15/10


Collapse is a more likely scenario. We have spent recklessly and have set up permanent entitlements which grow exponentially far beyond the revenue to pay for them
-Ralph

Yes Ralph we share common ground in your opinion true unemployment figures and suspicion of the Fed.
The recent uptick in the GDP however suggests the economy will recover but with blood on the dance floor. Misery will be the new normal for many more as we replace $35 dollar an hour jobs with $14 dollar an hour jobs. In the long run its not full employment but jobs that make a living wage that are paramount. Slavery is full employment, so though any job is better than no job its the standard of living that makes America the good ole USA.
---larry on 2/15/10


Maybe it's just the area where I live but it sure seems the young people are having a hard time here.For that reason I say we're in a depression now.
---shirley on 2/15/10


Ralph, as I have explained before the Fed is a private non-profit organization run from within but not accountable to the government. In actuality its quasi-private. It is owned by no one but has members who are the Federal Reserve Banks which are also non-profit. The Reserve Banks are members and given stock though the stocks cannot be sold or traded. The Governing Board needs no authority from the president to change interest rates or increase the money supply. Its a bit confusing but I hope that helps you understand.
---larry on 2/15/10


The powers that be cannot bring the rest of the world up to the United States' standards and is their intention to take the United States down the world's standards.
******

somewhat true ...most are blind to understand powers we SEE are not true powers

however these powers didn't give America it's supreme power as GIVEN by The Father in Heaven

When final holy roman empire comes into power it will destroy America as foretold in prophecy ...US prospered as a nation under God STANDARDS and God rewarded ...now America removed God becoming a vast wasteland of moral decay ...God will punish this nation severely our standards will be reduced to worlds because American people going to captivity just like nation of Israel
---Rhonda on 2/15/10


Ralph,

Re 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Mugwort is called chornobylnik in Ukrainian, and has given its name to the abandoned city of Chornobyl (Chernobyl in Russian.) The mugwort is more commonly called wormwood.

The cause of death from the Ukraine nuke meltdown was radiation contamination of water. That happened in 1986.

Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Mao spoke about his 200,000,000-man army. Maybe John heard him?
---BruceB on 2/14/10


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Good job of explaining BruceB. I think I get it.

It sure seems like the time is very short, but people have been saying that forever. However, it is clear that we now have the technology and enough leaders with a "global world view" where the end time events could conceivably be at hand.

With the dire need for government to collect large amounts of tax revenue, and under the justification of "security" and fighting terrorism, I envision a "point of service" type of tax collection system. You won't be able to buy or sell without your identification "card" or "mark".
---ralph7477 on 2/14/10


Ralph,

Very briefly...

"Ownership" is by law (which is more accurately membership) and required of any Reserve-chartered bank. There are also primary-dealer banks/brokers who are members, which are the purchasers of Treasury debt--reselling it to the public. (Nice little scam.)

Ownership is evidenced by non-negotiable stock. This provides non-governmental "capitalization" of the FED.

The Board of Governors is by Pres. appointment. The Boards of Directors of members are a combo of persons of the member banks and public with some being elected and some being appointed by the Governors. This gives that pseudo-public appearance to the FED.

more to come...
---BruceB on 2/14/10


There will be a world "currency". But, it will not be a cash system. (The current World Bank uses SDRs [special drawing rights] against gold. Interesting, yes? Maybe that's why all central banks have ALL the gold?)

I don't think there will be any agreement to wiping out debt. There will be a war which resolves that issue. It happens at the 6th Trumpet (closer than anyone can imagine.) This will also provide impetus for the "beast" to confirm the covenant.

I'm only guessing here: but I believe that China will be whacked to pieces in that war. The US, to some lesser degree. I also believe what's left of the US will be a resister of the "anti-Christ", and an ally of sorts to Israel during the Tribulation.
---BruceB on 2/14/10


Very interesting topic BruceB. You wrote: "The original "owners" were such entities as Mellon Bank, Morgan Guaranty, and others. Over the decades, ownership has transfered and been modified substantially: directly and by mergers."

My question was when and how does a new bank become and "owner" and who makes that decision?

On a related note, given the fact that we are on an unsustainable path, given that individual States are on the verge of bankruptcy, given that foreign countries are in debt trouble and the survival of the Euro, for example, is in doubt, can you foresee a scenario where nations simply all agree to wipe the books clean, and start over with a single world currency?
---ralph7477 on 2/14/10


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Some economist believe that we are being led into a depression knowingly and willingly by the business elite men of the nation. They arrived at this belief because of the way globalization is being pushed. Any time better is diluted with pooer, better will necessarily and inevitably be lower. -----My mother took a tour of Europe many years ago and upon her returning she said, " The powers that be cannot bring the rest of the world up to the United States' standards and is their intention to take the United States down the world's standards. This from a 60-year-old housewife who had no training in economics.
---mima on 2/14/10


Ralph,

I should add: the FED started issuing Reserve BANK Notes drawn against the people's gold on deposit. On 3/9/1933, gold was confiscated from the people. The FED and Treasury took possession of ALL gold money, and currency became Reserve Notes. These Notes are backed solely by public and private debt instruments.

To create demand for Reserve BANK Notes, the Income Tax was established in 1913. Income Tax law required it be paid in Reserve BANK Notes. After '33, Reserve BANK Notes became simple Reserve Notes--by fiat.

By creating mandated demand for GOLD-BACKED Reserve BANK Notes, and later converting them to fiat DEBT-BACKED Reserve Notes... Voila! So much for the people's gold. No laundering involved--just theft.
---BruceB on 2/14/10


Ralph,

Don't mistake a "GSE" for a government-run entity. The government merely "guarantees" a GSE against failure, as insurer of last resort, if you will: taxpayer obligation.

The original "owners" were such entities as Mellon Bank, Morgan Guaranty, and others. Over the decades, ownership has transfered and been modified substantially: directly and by mergers.

As to Goldman, the fact they have an ownership stake (largest) in the FED is prima facia proof the FED is "privately held".

"Money" laundering is a stretch, since there is no actual money. There is only debt, which is the asset-base for what we call money.

Not easy to explain in 125-word segments. LOL
---BruceB on 2/12/10


Thanks BruceB for explaining. I wasn't trying to establish an argument. It's just that calling the Fed a "private" entity seems a stretch. I understand the concept of a GSE but let's be honest, it's all essentially government run and to say that these entities are not part of the government is semantics.

The modern banks that you say "own" the Fed weren't even in existence when the Fed was created. Goldman Sachs wasn't considered a "bank"-or more precisely a bank holding company-until recently. So what banks owned the Fed originally? How and when did transfer of ownership take place. I'm eager to learn.

What you described sounds like a money laundering operation more than anything else.
---ralph7477 on 2/12/10


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Moderator is correct there will be a worldwide depression (perhaps already starting) or we may not plunge into this depression but slowly slip down into it. At some point during this slide we can expect certain nations of the world(democracies) to attempt to unite and by doing so present a united front to the non-democratic nations. This would be very close to a conflict between Islam and Christianity not entirely because you have Japan and other nations that are not Christian that would join with the democracies. This could start happening very soon.
---mima on 2/12/10


ralph7477,

The FED is owned by a group of the primary money-center banks (Goldman, BofA, Chase, Wells, et al.) The term "privately owned" is used to differentiate between "government ownership" and all other ownership--whether privately or publicly held. The FED is NOT owned by the "government", as is the US Treasury.

I assume you are trying to establish an argument for refuting the conspiracy theory that 'the FED is not part of the US Government'? Well... it is not. It is a "GSE", or Government Sponsored (Supported) Enterprise... the same as are Fannie and Freddie, subject to limited government regulation with virtually no oversight.

I'll continue in a second comment...
---BruceB on 2/12/10


cont...

Fannie and Freddie were taken over by the Government because they were insolvent. What is not commonly known is the FED was also insolvent. To avoid government takever of the FED, there had to be a bailout... without the public knowing.

TARP was part of the "bailout": another $1T increase in the debt ceiling also indirectly (secretly) funded the FED, relieving the negative $7B reserve balance of the FED in July 2008.

Money center banks used TARP to purchase that increase in debt ceiling at Treasury auction and then presented the T-Bills to the FED discount window. Once the FED had possession of the T-Bills, they could "print" money against that T-Bill debt, thereby beefing their reserve balances.
---BruceB on 2/12/10


Larry, I've asked you this question on several occasions and I never get an answer: Who owns the Federal Reserve if it is "private"?
---ralph7477 on 2/12/10


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Possibly, but its private citizens that decide whether we have another great depression. Banks, Oil and demand and not nationalized. If the government could have stopped risky investments by banks or private investors it would have done so.
The government arrives after the mess to finance mistakes.
Meanwhile there is a general misunderstanding that our government (we) prints money. The Federal Reserve is PRIVATE and controls the money supply and inflation rates. Assets that create bubbles are created largely by PRIVATE investors.
The true commodity governments cannot and do not inflate is the unreported assets of precious metals.
Excellent question.
---larry on 2/12/10


Amen brother Bruce, right on Sister Rhonda.

We are not sheep led to the slaughter by some far out entity called the government.
That is a "talk-radio" cop out of our responsibility for a Godly institution. There is not one negative verse about government from God, not one.
Blame "individuals" who don't vote, can't identify their representatives or city councilmembers, don't know how their representatives or even school board members vote, and are entrenched in materialism and get rich schemes by irresponsibly investing entire portfolios in people like Bernie Madoff.
If taxes are too high than vote all 535 members out of congress to send the ultimate message.
---larry on 2/12/10


Rhonda,

It's a bit more complicated: but, yes, for all intents and purposes, that's about the jist of it.

The FED was a cover to usurp constitutional money power from Congress. The FED using a fractional-reserve system opened the door for the roaring twenties through extreme expansion of money, resulting in the Depresion.

In 1933, the FED managed to get Congress to remove gold as money and the US Treasury and FED split the confiscated gold. It was at that time fiat currency backed by debt came into being.

If you want to understand how unconstitutional fiat debt-money actually works, you can D/L this excellent entry-level PDF book off the net--free...

"All Work and No Pay" by Paul A. Hein, M.D.
---BruceB on 2/12/10


The Federal Reserve Act (1913) had nothing to do with gold vs currency. It merely instituted a fractional-reserve central bank--which remains unconstitutional.
*****

Bruce

Yes it is unconstitutional, and if I'm not mistaken the Federal Reserve is only a front for the elite few richest families in the world who control the "Fed Reserve"
---Rhonda on 2/11/10


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Rhonda,

You are incorrect:

US currency was backed by gold and silver and both were minted into coin until 1933, when gold was removed from backing currency and no longer minted into coin (though the currency remained "valued" to gold.) In fact, gold was confiscated from the public.

In 1964, silver stopped being coined and backing currency.

Currency continued to be valued by the "gold standard" until 1971, when Nixon removed that standard so the "dollar" would float (be "valued") against other currencies.

The Federal Reserve Act (1913) had nothing to do with gold vs currency. It merely instituted a fractional-reserve central bank--which remains unconstitutional.
---BruceB on 2/9/10


Our printing of more money than we have gold to cover raises the price of gold. The value of our dollar is tied to gold
*****

Jimmy

where have you been???

money has not been "tied" or in any way associated with gold since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was established

economies rise and fall on expansion ...there are times of expansion and times of recession ...only a FOOL believes the economy would never experience anything but expansion
---Rhonda on 1/24/10


The figures also don't count individuals who are self employed and can't find work, nor do the figures count those people who have taken "early retirement" rather than be laid off from their jobs. Those people would still be working if given the choice.
*****


not at all ...that is what the masses believe and it is false

it would be impossible to determine who could not "find work" whether self employed or not ...further I know many who took early retirement AND NOW have a very nice high paying full-time job

unemployment is done by sampling ...and the system has been in place for decades it's error ratio is minimal
---Rhonda on 1/24/10


Our printing of more money than we have gold to cover raises the price of gold. The value of our dollar is tied to gold. Unfortunatly, the value of the world's currency is tied to our dollar. WHEN our dollar collapses, what happen to the price of gold?
---jimmy on 1/22/10


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Moderator - By printing so much money, the US government is sowing the seads for the next asset bubble. When that asset bubble pops, then we could be looking at a worldwide depression. But for now, invest your money in the commodities and stocks that the government has decided to inflate.
-------Blog reply by moderator.

Be specific for us as you can.

Corn? Soybeans? G.M. ?
---Trav on 1/22/10


DOCUMENTS SEALED FROM THE PUBLIC BY OBAMA. DO YOU THINK MAYBE HE IS A FRAUD. JUST MAYBE???
.....kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/19/10

Wow Jim. There is a pattern somewhere we are missing. mlk was almost the same cut. They've locked this hero's records too. Why would we lock a hero's record? Because they aren't in reality.
---Trav on 1/20/10


The government unemployment figures only account for those who file for unemployment benefits or who are currently receiving benefits. Once the benefits run out for individuals, they are no longer counted even though they still aren't working.

The figures also don't count individuals who are self employed and can't find work, nor do the figures count those people who have taken "early retirement" rather than be laid off from their jobs. Those people would still be working if given the choice.

Obama hasn't created or saved anything in the way of jobs. What he has created is huge debt with nothing to show for it.
---ralph7477 on 1/19/10


Rhonda the 22% unemployment includes those who gave up looking for jobs ...Giving us a fales impression that we are at 10.5%. The true figure is 22%.
*****

and who/what ...or better yet HOW do they DETERMINE these mysterious people who "gave up looking for a job"?

Do they belong to a nationwide support group or something?

department of labor reports civilian unemployment rate for 16years and older at 10% ...MANY resources confirm

AGAIN - where is your SOURCE for this inflated statistic and a cooked up non-trackable group of "those who gave up looking" (which would in effect double the rate counting some unemployed TWICE) ...otherwise 22% is bogus stat more fluffed up HYPE feeding media machine
---Rhonda on 1/19/10


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Rhonda the 22% unemployment includes those who gave up looking for jobs. The Obama Admin decided to exclude these from the statistics. Giving us a fales impression that we are at 10.5%. The true figure is 22%.

Also they want to include a new figure called "Saved Jobs". Meaning somehow they can include people working who have not been laid off yet.

Every statistical organization has called that one laughable. Since there is no way to know who was going to get fired when it never happend.

Go figure!
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/19/10


Our U.S. and world condition will be of a far worse magnitude than the great depression. Shortages in natural resources, food shortages, declining condition of earth and many species, declining air quality and water shortages along with disease and natural disasters of abominable proportions never seen before threaten our world along with financial failure. Anything catastrophic could happen at any time. The good news is that Jesus is coming soon:)
---jody on 1/18/10


I still have the book that David Wilkerson wrote in 1998 called "God's plan to protect His people in the Coming Depression'.

Many people scoffed and laughed at his predictions and continued to call him a false prophet and ask when will this depression be?

I don't see anyone scoffing now.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/10


Unemployment has jump to a new record. The report has it now at 22.5% unemployment. The highest in history
******

WHAT? does it include retired who choose not to work

statistics from many sources including the civilian unemployment rate from department of labor all fall at about 10% unemployment for December 2009 and previous 3 monthsreverse would be 90% are employed

in year 2000 unemployment was at an all time low of 3.9% ...averaged out over decades it is about 5%

how long the US has is unknown ...US government is NOT leading Americans into a depression they are leading us into slavery

media will continue to pound the masses with gross distorted "news" helping governments plan
---Rhonda on 1/17/10


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Bob, The government has and is taking the necessary steps to help the people in the country, it is not leading anyone into depression. "Blessed the nation whose God Yhwh. If my people, which are called by my name, will humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." Psalm 33:12+ II Chronicles 7:14.
---Eloy on 1/16/10


ELOY...I don't know what planet you live on.

Report after Report shows the economy headed staight to a Depression.

Today (1/14/10) The news reported that we have broken all records on Foreclosure this year, and next year will being MUCH worse than this years record.

2)Unemployment has jump to a new record. The report has it now at 22.5% unemployment. The highest in history(other than the depression)

3) Retails sales in December (Christmas) was even lower than November, October or September. THE LOWEST IN HISTORY!


It looks like "Your Messiah" in Washington is a fraud!!!

I "HOPE" I still have "CHANGE" after he's done destroying our country.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/14/10


No, the government is doing what they can, and the economy is indeed recovering, but it is up to each individual to manage their own monies wisely.
---Eloy on 1/13/10


Jesus said, Do not store up your treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, but
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

People doing the Ponzi schemes have stollen money.

The point is: investing your money in stocks is the world's system, and abides in satan's kingdom, the kingdom of darkness.

If you give into God's ministries, God promises a hundredfold return. Not that we give for that reason, but we do it because the bible tells us to store up our treasures in heaven. Meaning give to God, not stocks. Stocks don't guarantee a good return these days, God guarantees a hundredfold return, amen?
---Donna on 1/13/10


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Now is the time that many different factors are reaching a crescendo.
1. Food supply and world population.
2. Resources in virtually every field such as oil, farmable land, etc.

There may have been a time when the bottle was half empty, however today it is almost full to overflowing.

Even the most unsophisticated know that the air today is pregnant with the scent of change!!!

Yes I believe are heading into depression led, society upheaval!!!!
---mima on 1/13/10


Pretrib rapture: Let's reason this out #1.

Many christians believe that they will be raptured to excape the tribulation, the wrath that is to come. If this is true, why would the dead be raptured? It is written that the dead shall rise first. The dead cannot feel pain. They don't have any consciousness of what's happening on earth.
---Steveng on 11/23/09


\\
NO true saved believer will go through the great tribulation.\\

Yes they will.

Those who think they're going up in a pre-trib rapture will be among the first to give their allegiance to the Beast.
---Cluny on 11/22/09


JUNE SAID: "IF you are saved, God will not allow HIS own to suffer wrath as in the great tribulation"

A REAL HERETIC!!!

PRE TRIB RAPTURE IS A HERESY started by an Occultist/Witch named Margaret Mac Donald (google it). John Darby went to her Seances and started a cult in the UK. Scofield (Cult member) added it to his study bible here in America (only 130yrs ago)
Trbulation is for believers, Wrath is for the wicked. It comes for the word Tribul (Google it). Did Jesus or any of the Apostle or Belivers NOT suffer tribulation EVER???
Before we here the usual "this means" "In greek means" interpretations.

HERE'S WHAT CHRIST ACTUALLY SAID:
MATT 24:29-31, JOHN 6:39-54,11:24,12:48, 17:15
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/22/09


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All you need to do is pass a law to say that the national debt will be halved in four years.

That's what our lot propose to do. (in spite of the fact that in the last month alone, it has considerably risen, and increases on public expenditure are promised to please the unthinking masses)

And in four years time?

Presumably you just pass a law to say that it has been halved, and that anyone who says it has not will face a charge of treason.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/22/09


NO true saved believer will go through the great tribulation.
IF you are saved, God will not allow HIS own to suffer wrath as in the great tribulation

You are ONLY saved by the precious blood of Jesus and it is a gift
---june on 11/22/09


Augie,

Sooner or later we're going to have to enter the Great Tribulation. The good news is those Saints that perservere to the End will see the Glory of Christ.

So I look forward to that and hope to be found worthy. I imagine my flesh won't like it, but my spirit will rejoice in knowing the time of His coming has arrived!

God Bless!
---Pastor_JIm on 11/22/09


Pastor Jim:

The comedy show sounds terrible. Just like Oral Robert's claim that God would "call him home". God will give these comedians their "just reward" for insulting him.

Thanks for reminding me that God used other nations to fulfill his purposes. Maybe God is allowing the USA to be taken down. I hope not, but the new "Messiah" seems to be leading us that way. Really! His increased spending doesn't seem to have helped much. However, the USA does have a BIGGER debt level because of INCREASED borrowing. Ouch! Again, I believe that God won't allow the USA to collapse, but I could be wrong.

What will it take to get the USA to "wake up" before it is too late?
---Augie on 11/21/09


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//when I ask them how the USA will pay all that debt back. I wonder why they are speechless//
---Sag on 11/20/09

They don't answer because NOBODY knows. And the present administration would rather not think about it.
I doubt we will ever pay it back.

We are like the family who has all the luxeries of life bought on credit. Everyone thinks they are "wealthy". But in fact, all that keeps them from bankruptcy, is the good will of their creditors...which cannot last forever.
---Donna66 on 11/21/09


Augie that is not true AT ALL!

Throughout the entire Bible, God has had evil empires crush and devour his promise land and people. Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Rome and many others. God has, and WILL use evil Empires or Ruler (i.e. Nebuchadnezzar) to any nation or person that has forsaken him and America has done just that. America isnt even the promise land, so expect much worse. Especially since it now has a new "Messiah".

HBO had a comedy show (Larry Davis) that had a man urinate on the face of Jesus. Not a single word from the 200 million so called "Christians" in the USA, no boycott, no cancellations NADA! Imagine if it was Mohamed, How many millions laugh at this scene???
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/20/09


I have been meaning up to look up depression. Some people online or elsewhere get me so angry, because they say things like, "Well that's terrible that in YOUR part of the country there's a recession going on." I wish people could be smarter and realize that it's everywhere, no matter what things they own.
---amand6348 on 11/20/09


Hey Sag,

When your critics say that you are being pessimistic, you had better listen closely. Who has the attitude problem here? You? Them? Both sides?

God does care about the United States of America and I don't believe that he would ever let it collapse. And let the un-Godly nations, like China, rule the world? Unthinkable!

I don't believe much of the stuff coming out of Washington D.C. The USA seems to be on a collision course with economic disaster.

Still, we must remain positive, and optimistic. I firmly believe that God will intervene to save the USA before it is too late. Why? The world cannot afford to lose the leader in many things: economics, foreign aid, missions, etc.
---Augie on 11/20/09


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Many people have accussed me of being a "pessimist" when I've expressed concern about all the reckless USA Government spending that is going on.

Another Great Depression will eventually occur simply because the USA Government is spending beyond it's means.

In other words, the question isn't "IF" there will be another Depression, only "WHEN" that will occur.

I'm surprised that the USA has managed to survive as long as it has. With $12+ TRILLION in debt. Unbelievable!

My critics don't know what to say when I ask them how the USA will pay all that debt back. I wonder why they are speechless.
---Sag on 11/20/09


Collapse is a more likely scenario. We have spent recklessly and have set up permanent entitlements which grow exponentially far beyond the revenue to pay for them.

This is the sub-prime mortgage scenario, only now it's the U.S. Government, not an individual homeowner or a car company. Unless drastic cost cutting measures are enacted, we will soon be insolvent. At least half of all Americans receive some sort of regular government check, so politicians do not have the guts to cut spending. America will be seen as "too big to fail" by our creditors and will need to be bailed out, foreclosed, reorganized, pick your term. The worthless dollar would be scrapped for a single world currency with a world governing body.
---ralph7477 on 11/20/09


My father lived through the Great Depression of the thirties. He always told me, if we have another like it, NOT to sell my stocks. He didn't and came out smelling like a rose. I'm glad I didn't, but it will take a long time to regain it ALL. I took some of what I had left after the crash and bought some real estate when prices were low. That's making up for the income I lost (I'm retired without any other income).

I bought some gold years ago when the price was very low, too. Gold is not a good investment if you need income, but the way money is being printed and the value dropping, it would be good security.
NO I do not trust ANY of the numbers that are coming from the gov't, esp about jobs!
---Donna66 on 11/19/09


Many people invest to earn money just as most people work to earn money - to pay for a roof over their heads and food on the table.

My dad was very wise about many things. As for investing he would say, "what would bring a better return on your money, $1,000 in someone else's stock or a $1,000 commercial coffee maker?" A person cannot control the asset of another company, but can control the his own asset.

The best investment advise he gave was to purchase an apartment building when you are young. That way, if all your future ventures fail, you always have a roof over your head and food on the table. (treat your tenants like kings and queens and they will pay your mortgage plus a small profit at the end of each month)
---Steveng on 11/19/09


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Mima ... I've writtn to you privately to correct some of your misconceptions about Britain and the way it has treated other countries.

I had not considered China when talking about those countries that could help America in the future. I think you are quite right ... they do have great wealth ... which I think they will be disinclined to release to help the bankrupt powers.

China of course is the future threat ... their economic power may well mean they don't have to use military power to achieve domination
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/19/09


Larry, if the Fed is private, who owns it?
---ralph7477 on 11/19/09


Agreed Cluny, always good to hear from you.

For the record my response of..
"If you really believe we're headed for a depression Precious Metals makes even more sense."

was a response to the errant suggestion the "wisest" investment would be stocks and commodities, and the general misunderstanding about the role and personality of the Federal Reserve.

I have previously warned against the kind of knee-jerk sky-is-falling-in bunker mentality of Jim Bakker and other charlatans.
We can be wise about investments but know ultimately our lives are in the hands of a holy and most powerful God. Agreed.
---larry on 11/19/09


Amen Cluny!

I would add that we as believers should not be in debt to someone else but if we are in debt, we need to get out of debt before the depression comes.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/19/09


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\\ If you really believe we're headed for a depression Precious Metals makes even more sense. \\

To drag strangers into the conversation, Someone greater than anybody who posts to these blogs said, "Lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust corrupt, and thieves break in and steal. Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, so that where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

He also told a little story about a man who thought he had all the stuff he needed stored up for many years. Anyone remember the punch line?
---Cluny on 11/19/09


---alan8566_of_uk alan I have been in your country and I was sorely disappointed by what I found. As a shopkeeper nation she chose to take advantage of all those nations which she could control. On the contrary the United States has generally helped the general population of each nation that we have controled. I think of Japan, Korea, Philippines and Mexico because of the proximity of the U.S.A..
China, I spent six months there, could easily help by simply rearranging their exchange rate but they will not do this and I encountered much hatred, jealousy, and much envy of the United States among the educated people.
---mima on 11/19/09


If you really believe we're headed for a depression Precious Metals makes even more sense.
Money maven Jim Rickards has been right on and has a very good web page you can Google for what is likely to happen to the dollar.

Crazy government spending has been okay for decades, and voters and consumers are ultimately responsible for the unbridled greed. Congressmembers work for for us and have spent like crazy because we'd rather watch Ultimate Fighting instead of checking the voting record of our congressmembers.
Its pathetic.
To blame our condition on an institution is a cop out.
Accountability with God and therefore with us should always be the individual.
Good question.
---larry on 11/19/09


Mima ... "Having traveled around over some of the world and seen their attitudes rest assured no one will come to the aid of America"

Mima ... You could not have had your eyes open on your travels.

What country is there that would be able to come to the aid of America? She is still the wealthiest & most influential nation in the world .. and still will be during the depression she will lead us into.

How can anyone else help her? The danger is that with her military power, she will try to steal from the poorest and weakest in oder to maintain and extend her economic superiority.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/19/09


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Consumers will lead the country into another depression by purchases or the lack thereof.
The government does NOT print money, the Fed prints money and the Fed is PRIVATE.
Third, avoid commodities unless you already have quality stock (Google) or a commodity (Oil), and instead go to precious metals. Gold and Silver are soaring and paper is well, paper.
Why fool around with commodities and a 15-28% Capital gains when Gold/Silver is a non-reported asset (not on your 1040) and has no capital gains.
If you consider Gold was under $800 in January and about $1100 now who wants to fool around with CD's or anything else that offers 2-3%. Puleeze.
---larry on 11/19/09


The moderator is correct however I would go farther. I see on the horizon(1-2 years) a depression that goes beyond the depression of the 1930s. It's inconceivable that we can escape the coming storm. I truly believe that not only a great depression is coming with that we will see actual hunger(greater than ever before) in this country. Having traveled around over some of the world and seen their attitudes rest assured no one will come to the aid of America. The hounds of greed have caught the rabbit of plenty and they will eat up all their own substance.
---mima on 11/19/09


I have no doubt that the United States of America is going down the tubes. Another big recession will hit and the stock market will not recover like some think it will.

God is not interested in healing America's economy. He is interested in healing our hearts.

America got themselves bankrupt, why should God bail us out? If you live under Psalm 91 and believe it and have a very intimate relationship with God, HE will provide for you in every way! Believe and trust and pray and obey and Worship Father God.
---Donna on 11/19/09


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