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Are The Remant Chosen

Many are called but few are Chosen, Are the chosen ones considered to be a remnant?

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 ---exzucuh on 11/21/09
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Rev 14:7 "..worship him that made heaven and earth and the sea, and the fountains of waters"

God's worship put in contrast to:

Rev 14:9 "..if any man worship the beast and his image and receive his mark.."

Notice how verse 7 is repeating the words of 4th Sabbath commandment.. "For in 6 days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea.." Exod 20:11

This means the worship referred to in Rev 14:7 is referring to 7th day Sabbath worship (the seal), put in contrast to beast's worship (the mark). What is the opposite of Sabbath worship? False sabbath Sunday worship. The mark is not 666, as that is the number of a man (see Rev 13:18) Mark and Number are 2 different things
---Gina7 on 12/11/09


"For this is the covenent that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

If only you would open your eyes a little further and read from the previous verse "NOT LIKE the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."

Sorry to confuse you with the truth.

---Lee1538 on 12/11/09
The Old Cov was written in stone. The New Cov was written on our hearts. In THIS WAY, it is NOT LIKE the old. The agreement/covenant still revolves around the 10 CC
---Gina7 on 12/11/09


trav -**1. No. I love em. Humbly, wish you were such.

we know them by their fruits and apart from abiding in Christ can bear no fruit.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

As an active member of a Bible distributing society for some 30 years helping distributing thousands of Bibles & Testaments, I have seen many lives changed by His Word.

If you knew the Scripture and its Author, you would know where God sends His word, it will not return to Him empty but will accomplished the purpose for which He sent it. Isa. 55:11.

So much to your dislike,I will continue to boast in the Lord.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09


The New Cov is one of the Spirit, not the law. 2 Cor.3:7-8
Sorry to confuse you with the truth.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09

Ur scripture misunderstood is not confusing. If you had this spirit u boast, you would have truth.
You c-not a key that blinds/hobbles you. The "Who" it was too. Even though...you posted it. "their fathers" waves a flag.
But, then these do not fit your doctrine. They cannot. The "I" n u, maybe jealous.

...when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

You are Judah? You are the House of Israel?
---Trav on 12/11/09


trav - One day they hired this lady whom I knew had a drug problem. I was too late telling the boss not to hire her. They put her in my office space. I did not care much what she thought about me so witnessed of the Christ in my life. A few days later she walked into the office and thanked me for leading her to Christ.

She and another lady pooled their resources and opened a very successful Christian bookstore in that town.

She went on to join a Bible church and even give her testimony of being led to Christ along with her entire family on the 700 Club. She boasted how the Lord had changed her entire life.

It is unfortunate the target of the legalists is Christians, seldom those who do not know Jesus.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09




Trav
Don't you just hate educated people that know both the Scripture and the Truth?
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09

1. No. I love em. Humbly, wish you were such. Their scripture links front to back.

2. You weren't boasting of the lord..."I" was your leading boast/statement.
Lee, was your boast and your lord.
---Trav on 12/11/09


Trav //Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Don't you just hate educated people that know both the Scripture and the Truth?

But I can see where you are coming from. For years I believed I was a Christian but one night Jesus came into my life and the direction of my life was drastically and dramatically changed.

There are those with just head knowledge - I knew the Bible fairly well went to church every sunday and was very moral in my behavior but was not born of His Spirit.

2Co 10:17 Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09


//New Covenent definition per the Bible:

"For this is the covenent that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

If only you would open your eyes a little further and read from the previous verse "NOT LIKE the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."

Your assumption is that the New Cov is simply a re-hash of the Old Cov, it is not. The New Cov is one of the Spirit, not the law. 2 Cor.3:7-8

Sorry to confuse you with the truth.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09


gina //The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 CC, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath. .

That view is without dispute, extrabiblical.

Your viewpoint is that of woman who was kicked out of a church that preached the gospel. It is likely that her visions were either self induced or the influence of demons.

In any case, Christians are under the New Covenant in which the OT Sabbath was not commanded or even recommended to the Gentile converts.

It is very clear from Scripture that the seal of the Christian is the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13, 4:30), not obedience to some law from a covenant declared obsolete (Heb 8:13).
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09


//You should talk, the Papacy reign wasn'texactly representative of the True Christ.And you come more from that bad vine.

It is obvious that your views are from the same rotten and poisonous root as most legalists, the children of Hagar from Mt. Sinai who bear children into slavery (Gal.4:24) as all they can do is pitch laws from the Old Covenant - a covenant declared OBSOLETE in Hebrews 8:13.

//Christ will deal with us individually and not according to any bad ancestors. Hebr. 4:12.

Scripture is abundantly clear that our salvation is in Christ who is "our righteousness,and sanctification and redemption" (1Cor. 1:30), not in obedience to OT laws. Ever read the NT, esp.Romans?


---Lee1538 on 12/11/09




tray //Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some have only religion and believe that they are pleasing our Lord by their works. They think they know the truth, but in reality they do not know the Truth (spelled with the capital "T").

Such is the plight with the legalists, who from one side of their mouth will tell us that our salvation is a gift we received by grace thru our faith in Christ, and from the other side demand that we must observe laws, especially selected OT laws.

As to the knowledge of the truth, you really need to read the Bible and find mentors that truly know the Lord.It is obvious that you have neither.
---Lee1538 on 12/11/09


Covenant definition per Websters Dictionary:
1: a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement : compact
2 a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action

New Covenent definition per the Bible:

"For this is the covenent that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord: I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 CC, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath.
---Gina7 on 12/11/09


Paul: Lee is consumed with his personal vendetta against us SDAs. He has been shown repeatedly the falsity of his statements, but he continues to spue the same tired old lies, as if they will someday become true. Religious bigotry will do that to you.
---jerry6593 on 12/11/09


Paul, you might say you are not SDA but it sure sounds like you are one. Maybe you were on line already but had a different name and now you want to speak on their behalf as if you are not one. Most of what you argue is the same. Works for salvation, under the law, and judging others for their conduct, and excluding yourself because you are alert to all things and others are not. The same old argument the SDA's on line put on. Many times some say they are sinless. I know a few SDA's in person and they never talk or say what the one's on line say about the law.
---MarkV. on 12/11/09


You should stop reading commentaries where they do not have their reasoning consenting with the words of Christ.

I was a research analyst so have been trained to look at all the arguments -
I have read it from cover to cover in 15 different versions
I believe I can stand above the spurious views of those...
---Lee1538 on 12/10/09

Like your reasoning consenting words do. Ha. You should follow lee, note his "I" credentials above.
You are a legend in your own mind,lee. Yet you don't even understand a/any simple covenant,noted previously.
You add words or meaning not even in 100 versions of scripture.
2 Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
---Trav on 12/11/09


Lee1538:


Sorry, but I don't read writings of Ellen White.

I'm not a SDA. The SDA FOLLOWERS are more centered on the Truth, they are more focus on keeping the commandments even the Sabbath which is important.

I look at everyone individually where their heart is.

SDA MEMBERS, They don't abide with a lawless Christ.

Some of their leaders could be bad news.

But is there anything new under the sun?

You should talk, the Papacy reign wasn't
exactly representative of the True Christ.
And you come more from that bad vine.

Christ will deal with us individually and not according to any bad ancestors.
---Paul9594 on 12/10/09


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Paul9594 - From the postings I've read, MarkV, Rod4Him, JackB (possibly some others) are well centered in the Truth, read theirs with an open mind, give the writings of Ellen White a break.

Are you well trained? If you are then you have not shown it.

Having been an active Christian for over 4 decades and having taken formal courses in His word, as well as having seen many come to Christ thru the ministries I was called into, I believe that Christ in my life is totally sufficient for bearing fruit and the eternal life to come.

2Co 10:17 Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/09


//You should stop reading commentaries where they do not have their reasoning consenting with the words of Christ.

By trade I was a research analyst so have been trained to look at all the arguments - both pro and con. The commentaries, all too often to your disadvantage, point out the deficiences with your position often contrary, in my humble opinion, to what the scripture really teaches.

While the Bible is my main focus, I have read it from cover to cover in 15 different versions plus taking formal courses in theology, I believe I can stand above the spurious views of those that challenge that 'faith which was once delivered unto the saints'.Jude 3.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/09


Many are called (effectual call of the Spirit, pedestinated and redeemed for heaven).
but few are chosen (given ears to hear and understand the gospel).

Since a remnant is a piece of the whole, the remnant is made up of a few of the whole.

The entire elect family was made holy by the finished work of Christ upon the cross. Within the family of God, the true worshippers make up the remnant.
---trey on 12/9/09


Lee1538:

You should stop reading commentaries where they do not have their reasoning consenting with the words of Christ.

1 Timothy 6:3-4

In commentaries, many comments are made without backing them with Scripture verses. They have a circular reasoning outside of the Law and The Prophets which Christ honored as His Word. Luke 24:44.

From the postings Ive read, Gina7, Rhonda, StevenG, Jerry6593, PastorJim, Stevenrem7000 are well centered in the Truth, read theirs with an open mind, give the commentaries a break.
---Paul9594 on 12/9/09


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//The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 commandments, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath.

That's the theology of Ellen White who got booted out of a church because she believed in her visions that Christ would return in October 1844 instead of the clear words of scripture that no one knows the hour or day of His return.

As to the seal, we can agree with the scripture the Sabbath was the SIGN, not the seal of the Old Cov (obsolete Heb 8:13) God made only with Israel (Ex 31:17).

Howbeit, the observance of the Jewish Sabbath is nowhere commanded in the New Cov nor was it taught by the Apostles or their immediate successors. So our choice is between the truth & what White believed.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/09


gina -//there is no command in the New Covenant of the church to observe any day as holy. Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

The main problem with your interpretation that God will write the Old Covenant laws onto believers hearts,is the phrase in Hebrews 8:9 ( & in Jer. 31:32) "NOT according to the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them out of Egypt".

Thus that law written on the hearts of believers is not a re-hash of the Old Covenant laws and will not contain ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath nor Levitical dietary laws.

Romans 14:5 makes it abundantly clear that one need not observe any day as holy.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/09


Lee: You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to show that scripture means the opposite of what it says. Do you think God is convinced?
---jerry6593 on 12/9/09


gina //I certainly hope I will be purified by fire, for it means I only reflect the pure image of Christ!
Is one purified by obedience to the law or by what Christ did for us on the Cross?
---Lee1538 12/8/09
"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire (faith and love)...and white raimnent, that thou mayest be clothed (Christ's righteousness)... and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve (spiritual discernment), that thou mayest see" Rev 3: 18

We need spiritual discernment, our characters must possess faith and love, and we must have the robe of Christ's righteousness. I am referring to our characters being purified by fire of trouble tribulation to come. This is separate from the robe covering us of Christ's.
---Gina7 on 12/8/09


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there is no command in the New Covenant of the church to observe any day as holy.
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09
Heb 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33

The New Cov is an agreement between God and us over the 10 commandments, and the seal is the 4th, the Sabbath.
A Seal always has the name, title, and territory of the King. What does the Sabbath commandment have? All 3 of these.

Name "The Lord thy God"

Title "Creator"

Territory "The heavens and the earth"

Since the definition of a "covenant" always includes a seal, it stands to reason that God's covenenant, or binding agreement with us over the 10 commandments, also includes a seal.
---Gina7 on 12/8/09


gina //I certainly hope I will be purified by fire, for it means I only reflect the pure image of Christ!

Purgatory?

Is one purified by obedience to the law or by what Christ did for us on the Cross?

Ro 5:19 For as by the one mans disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one mans obedience the many will be made righteous.

This is the concept of imputed righteousness as our righteousness in obedience to the law can never suffice.

Ga 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.'
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


gina //We will not worship a false Sabbath, as they would not worship a false god.

there is no command in the New Covenant of the church to observe any day as holy. There is, however, that option one has to esteem one day over others or none at all. Romans 14:5f

Christians have communal worship on Sundays in accordance to that tradition established by the Apostles 2 Thes. 2:15.

Don't you find it interesting that the early Gentile church did not teach Sabbath observance?

Observing the OT Sababth would have been very impractical in light of the fact that most early Christians came from lower economic and social classes. Can you see a slave asking his master if he could take the OT sabbath off?
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


Paul9594 - WHAT SCRIPTURE AUTHORITY do you have SHOWING GENESIS 26:5 IS NOT THE LAW OF MT. SINAI?

There can be none except that of rightfully handling the Word of Truth (2 Tim. 2:15).

Since it is your contention that God gave Abraham the Mosaic law, the burden of proof must certainly lie with you.

Again, since the law was NOT given until the time of Mosaic, there is virtually no reason to believe the law in Genesis 26:5 was the Mosaic law given centuries later. There is NO evidence that Abrahams descendents before Moses observed anything in the Mosaic law.

Yours is simply an futile argument from silence.
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


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Jerry -

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Note that this verse does states we are heirs according to the promise, which is based on faith not obedience to law.

Rom 2:28,29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Note that the one who is a Jew spiritually, is of the heart, in the spirit, NOT in the letter (of the law). "For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Cor. 3:6
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


Paul9594 - You may believe what you wish, but there is a danger of departing from the teachings that comprised that 'faith once and for all delivered to the saints". Jude 3.

And none of the early church writers held that the Christian needs observe laws that are strictly Jewish in nature such as circumcision, Sabbath & dietary laws, etc. Nor did they maintain one become righteous by any other means except by faith in Christ alone. Romans 1:17

If you are contrary then you are standing in judgment of the saints of His church who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And who do you think you are in comparison to them?
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


If devout Adventists even manage somehow to make it into heaven's gates, they will probably all smell of fire.
---Lee1538 12/6/09
No, we will be like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego when they came out of fiery furnace unharmed for obeying God and did not even smell of fire.(Dan 3:27)

Fire purifies, and takes away self and wordliness. I certainly hope I will be purified by fire, for it means I only reflect the pure image of Christ! We obey God in the present time by keeping God's Sabbath, and when it is made a test in near future, God's obedient people will come through the test purified as by fire, and Jesus will walk with us as He did in the furnace. We will not worship a false Sabbath, as they would not worship a false god.
---Gina7 on 12/8/09


//I do not have this book (Healthful Living, Ellen White) in my library. Please let me know if this is a personal opinion of EGW or did she say the Lord had shown her this?

So, you are saying much the same thing as the Roman Catholics say about the views of their popes, i.e. personal opinion versus what comes from the Chair of Peter.

There is another book written by another (I need to look it up), that traced each and every one of White's views on health to her contemporaries.

There is no published evidence that meat acts like an aphrodisiac on children. The idea is totally ridiculous and without any merit whatsoever.
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


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gina -Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The verse merely tells us that we are hiers of the promise God gave to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations. Romans 4:14,17.

The verse does not mean that we as Gentiles became converts to Judaism and under the Old Covenant laws upon becoming Christians. I believe Galatians made that abundantly clear.

In any case, Christians are under the New Covenant dispensation, not the Old Covenant declared obsolete (Hebr. 8:13).

While no one here believes God's word is stupid, some of Adventisms beliefs are.
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


//IN GENESIS.Father send a flood because of wickedness. He measured wickedness, to what standard?

Romans 2:14-15 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

The law in these verses is not the Mosaic law given on Mt. Sinai but that law 'written on the hearts'. Whose image has man been created in?

Apparently the ancients before the flood knew right from wrong but ignored it and did what they passions led them to do.
---Lee1538 on 12/8/09


Need to inquire if Gina also believes that eggs, butter & meat actually work as aphrodisiacs on children? (E. White, Healthful Living, p. 217).
---Lee1538 on 12/6/09
I do not have this book in my library. Please let me know if this is a personal opinion of EGW or did she say the Lord had shown her this? I do know it is a known fact that animal products act as aphrodisiacs on adults bringing out the lower passions, especially beef. (just google it) I imagine this would only work on children who have passed puberty, however early that is, sometimes as early as 8 or 9. So EGW's statement is true if the child has gone thru puberty.
---Gina7 on 12/8/09


Lee:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 2:28,29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So you find God's word "stupid" do you? You'd best lay off all those diseases, hormones, antibiotics, BHG and IGF-1 you're getting in your animal-based diet. It seems that they are affecting your brain.
---jerry6593 on 12/8/09


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Lee1538:
Sin "the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, ) or "lawlessness" according to faithful translation of Greek numeric value.

"Where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15).

IN GENESIS.Father send a flood because of wickedness. He measured wickedness, to what standard? To His standards!

His holy character not changing, what is evil/sin does not change for Him.

Clear example. IN GENESIS...20:3-9 and 39:7-9 describe adultery a "sin against our Father." Adultery breaks the Seventh Commandment .. of Law of mount Sinai! I could go on

WHAT SCRIPTURE AUTHORITY do you have SHOWING GENESIS 26:5 IS NOT THE LAW OF MT. SINAI?
---paul9594 on 12/7/09


Jerry -//Yes we are! All REAL Christians are!

Then I guess there is no such thing as a Gentile and the Jerusalem council and their decisions regarding Gentile converts does not apply to any of us that are not born into Judaism.

Do you have any more stupid remarks?

Maybe you should eat more butter, eggs, & meat as it really seems to make you people hot.
---Lee1538 on 12/7/09


Lee: Thanks for continually validating my assessment of you.

"(And Adventists are not Jewish!)"

Yes we are! All REAL Christians are!

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
---jerry6593 on 12/7/09


Need to inquire if Gina also believes that eggs, butter & meat actually work as aphrodisiacs on children? (E. White, Healthful Living, p. 217).

How about wearing a wig? Does such make one morally reckless? - another pop saying from the infallible E. white.
---Lee1538 on 12/6/09


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//Lee is going nuts trying to show that SDAs do not fit the Rev 12:17, 19:10 definition of God's remnant church. He has boxed himself into a logical corner, and has nothing left but the same old tired "hate SDA" blather. LOL!

The plain facts are there in scripture for all to read and we read that the remnant is Jewish. There can be no other logical conclusion. (And Adventists are not Jewish!)

If the devout Adventists even manage somehow to make it into heaven's gates, they will probably all smell of the fire.

1 Cor. 13:13 Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is.
---Lee1538 on 12/6/09


Gina 7, you said,
"No other denomination but SDA fits the Biblical description given above. All 10 CC are kept (in power of Christ lest any man should boast), and there is Spirit of Prophecy, which only follows where true Sabbath is kept"
So you are saying that through the power of the Holy Spirit your denomination is the only one that is the remnant because He helps you keep the 10 CC even when you are a sinner at other laws, but doesn't help the others? So long as you keep the Sabbath all other sins don't count?
Second where does the Bible tells us that there is a different Spirit of prophecy also that follows where Sabbath keeping is kept under the Covenant of Grace or in the Covenant of works?
---MarkV. on 12/6/09


Hi Gina7. Good to see you back again! Lee is going nuts trying to show that SDAs do not fit the Rev 12:17, 19:10 definition of God's remnant church. He has boxed himself into a logical corner, and has nothing left but the same old tired "hate SDA" blather. LOL!
---jerry6593 on 12/6/09


Rhonda //True church is NOT separate from the tribe of Judah (aka Jews) True Church is GRAFTED INTO the tribe of Judah

The issue at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) was to determine if Gentile believers needed to become Jewish and observe the laws of Moses (15:5).

The decision was that they needed not to. (Acts 15:19f)

It is abundantly clear that there is virtually nothing in Scripture or in the teachings of the church, that Christians become members of one of the 12 tribes of Israel - a belief held by British Israelism, an old Armstrong cult.
---Lee1538 on 12/5/09


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Jerry **to be losing it, ol' buddy.

Your foot must be very sore from kicking against the pricks of the truth.

If you cannot stand the heat in the kitchen, then get out. Maybe you been eating too many eggs, butter, & meat to focus on the truth.
---Lee1538 on 12/5/09


If you read the previous verse (7:8) you will see that the remnant is of the Jews, not of the church.
****

True Christians (spiritual Israel) are GRAFTED into Gods chosenpeople who are physical Israel ...very reason why spiritual Israel receives the same promises (GAL 3)

through Abraham

through his son Judah - hence Jewish tribe

11 other tribes are GENTILES - in other words non-believers of God - they were NOT CHOSEN

through Christ GENTILES have opportunity to become CHOSEN

True church is NOT separate from the tribe of Judah (aka Jews) True Church is GRAFTED INTO the tribe of Judah

Christ RULES Gods Kingdom on earth in Jerusalem at his return
---Rhonda on 12/5/09


//You seem to be losing it, ol' buddy. Maybe you'd better lay off the animal excrement.


You may also stop wearing that wig as olde Ellen will tell you it makes you morally reckless.

And you better get off those eggs, butter, & meat as they make children like yourself really excited.(EG White,Healthful Living, p217)

You cannot point to a single thing that supports the view the SDA is some kind of remnant of the end times. It is all in the rantings of sicko Ellen White.
---Lee1538 on 12/5/09


Rev 12:17 And the dragon [Satan] was wroth with the woman [the true church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which [1] keep the commandments of God, and [2] have the "testimony of Jesus Christ."

Rev 19:10 .... for the "testimony of Jesus" is [definition] the spirit of prophecy.---jerry6593 11/30/09

No other denomination but SDA fits the Biblical description given above. All 10 CC are kept (in power of Christ lest any man should boast), and there is Spirit of Prophecy, which only follows where true Sabbath is kept. (Israel lost prophets when they veered away from Sabbath and is also the reason Sunday keeping churches have no prophets). Also, the devil is at war with SDA's, that is clear!
---Gina7 on 12/5/09


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Lee: "Apparently you are unable to read my posts as I nowhere stated Presbyterians believe themselves to be the remnant people."

"Jerry -**I realize that you don't like to see these things because of your hatred of SDAs, but can you name any other denomination that fits these wholly biblical definitions?

Presbyterian because everything they believe doctrinally is based upon the Scripture alone."
---Lee1538 on 11/30/09

You seem to be losing it, ol' buddy. Maybe you'd better lay off the animal excrement.
---jerry6593 on 12/5/09


Jerry -// You are becoming terribly confused. You claim that "Presbyterians find the Bible to be totally sufficient for Christian doctrine," and that they are indeed the "remnant" described in Rev 12:17, 19:10

Apparently you are unable to read my posts as I nowhere stated Presbyterians believe themselves to be the remnant people. In fact, I have stated the scripture only identifies the remnant as Jewish.

While as time goes on, we can expect a great falling away from the gospel message to the point that most churches will be apostate, the very endtimes will make genuine Christians a true minority. 2 Th. 2:3.

However, no Christian denomination can claim to be the remnant based on what we read in Scripture.
---Lee1538 on 12/4/09


Lee: You are becoming terribly confused. You claim that "Presbyterians find the Bible to be totally sufficient for Christian doctrine," and that they are indeed the "remnant" described in Rev 12:17, 19:10. Yet, you then admit that they do not meet either of the two charactistics of the "remnant" found in scripture. Neither do they find the Sabbath of the Bible sufficient, preferring instead a man-made counterfeit. Show me where the scriptures describe the transferrence of the holiness of the Sabbath to Sunday. Now, to be clear, I don't denegrate the Presbyterian faith (as you do the SDA faith), or the people of any Christian denomination, but I disagree with some of their doctrines.
---jerry6593 on 12/4/09


Can you name the Presb. prophet?

No, but we can name a few that are not in biblical grounded denominations but have been found to be false prophets - Joseph Smith (extrabiblical Book of Mormons, Doctrines & Covenants), Charles Taze Russell (Awake, and Watchtower magazines), Mary Baker Eddy (Science & Health w/key to the Scriptures), and Ellen White (Desire of the Ages, Patriarchs & Prophets).

It is easy to see that they all have their extrabiblical sources to support their false teachings.

Presbyterians find the Bible to be totally sufficient for Christian doctrine.
---Lee1538 on 12/2/09


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Jerry //You just admitted that the Presb. keep man-made - not God's -Commandments.

Yes indeed Presbyterians keep the tradition of communal gathering on Sundays - some call it the Christian Sabbath.

Those traditions we keep were established by the Lord's Apostles -

2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

All you need to do (but cannot) is to point to at least one scripture that commands Christians to observe any day of the week.

Howbeit it is obvious you cannot get around Romans 14:5-6.
---Lee1538 on 12/2/09


Lee: Blah, blah, blah. You just admitted that the Presb. keep man-made - not God's -Commandments. Can you name the Presb. prophet? Guess they can't be the remnant then. Keep eating your animal cadavers and animal excretia, it seems to be destroying your brain.
---jerry6593 on 12/2/09


Jerry -//Presbyterians do not keep the biblical Sabbath,..

They keep instead the Christian Sabbath and that by tradition as there was no command to keep the Jewish Sabbath mandated to the Gentiles by the Jerusalem Council, Acts 15:20f.

As such they differentiate between the Old obsolete Mt. Sinaitic covenant (Hebr. 8:13, Gal. 4:24f) and that of the church - something that Adventists do not.

As to eggs, butter & meat acting as an aphrodisiac on children (E. White, Healthful Living, p.217), you are forced to accept those fallacious beliefs from the writings of Ellen White, as Adventism has them on the same level as Holy Writ.

You are therefore stuck under the embrace of a false prophetess.Mt. 24:11
---Lee1538 on 12/1/09


//Thus they fail both biblical tests of the remnant people.

Presbyterians also fail the biblical tests of the remnant people as they are Gentile Christians and not Jewish.

Scripture ONLY mentions the remnant as being Jewish but Adventism distorts the Scripture to imply that they are the remnant people but fail to understand they are not Jewish.

As to keeping the commandments, we all may agree that no one keeps the commandments of God as we all are sinners, but sinners saved not by works but by the blood of Jesus.

Re 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
---Lee1538 on 12/1/09


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Jerry, Wow, you do think your denomination is the only one that keeps the law. That is why you wanted to connect Revelation to your answers. Should have known better then to answer you. There was a reason why you interpreted the passages as speaking about denomination, this way you could say yours is it. Sorry Jerry, but I believe every single person in your denomination is a sinner. No a one can keep the whole law.
---MarkV. on 12/1/09


Lee: "Presbyterian because everything they believe doctrinally is based upon the Scripture alone."

Wrong! Care to try again? Presbyterians do not keep the the biblical Sabbath, and hence do not keep the commandments of God (they prefer the man-made sabbath counterfeit). I don't believe they claim to have an end-time prophet. Thus they fail both biblical tests of the remnant people.

If you would stop poisoning your mind with eggs, butter and meat, you might be able to discern these simple facts.
---jerry6593 on 12/1/09


Jerry -**I realize that you don't like to see these things because of your hatred of SDAs, but can you name any other denomination that fits these wholly biblical definitions?

Presbyterian because everything they believe doctrinally is based upon the Scripture alone. Howbeit, the SDA according to their Fundamental Articles have anointed the writings of Ellen White as a companion to the Scriptures.

Now Jerry, do not get mad, but do you truly believe butter, eggs & meat actually act aphrodisiacs on children? (E. White, Healthful Living, p.217)
---Lee1538 on 11/30/09


Jerry, I don't hate the SDA's and not even you, in fact I love you and not ashame to say it, so I can tell you that you are intepreting the passages very wrong in Rev. 13:17. It is not talking about a denomination or denominations. If you read the passage with an unbias heart you would know that obedience to God's Word always marks a genuine believer (John 8:31-32), which reads "...If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free"
Rev. 19:10 also speaks of the same. "The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The central theme of both Old and New T. preaching is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---MarkV. on 11/30/09


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Lee: You continue to illustrate the "corrupting influence of man-made traditions" by your inability to read and understand the simplest scriptures. Here they are for you to see (if you will).

Rev 12:17 And the dragon [Satan] was wroth with the woman [the true church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which [1] keep the commandments of God, and [2] have the "testimony of Jesus Christ."

Rev 19:10 .... for the "testimony of Jesus" is [definition] the spirit of prophecy.

I realize that you don't like to see these things because of your hatred of SDAs, but can you name any other denomination that fits these wholly biblical definitions?
---jerry6593 on 11/30/09


Jerry **The Bible defines the "remnant" in Rev 12:17 and Rev 19:10.

You really do not know what constitutes a definition do you? It does say 'a remnant is....'.

Rev.12:17 does not define a remnant, but is simply addressed to those Jews who keep the commands of God (and there are more than 10).

Rev.19:10 speaks of the spirit of prophecy but that simply means that the design of prophecy is to bear testimony to Jesus.

And those that are His bear that testimony.
---Lee1538 on 11/29/09


The Bible defines the "remnant" in Rev 12:17 and Rev 19:10. They are a group that "keep the Commandments of God" and have "the spirit of prophecy." Thus, any group that teaches that God's Commandments are not binding on Christians, or that the spirit of prophecy is not valid in this age is definitely NOT part of God's remnant.

Note that any remnant is identical in character to the original. So these folks will hold the same beliefs as did Jesus and the disciples - with no corrupting influence of man-made traditions.
---jerry6593 on 11/29/09


Rhonda - //Deut 7:9 ...LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himselfmercy with them that love him(God) and keep his (Gods) commandments to a thousand generations

If you read the previous verse (7:8) you will see that the remnant is of the Jews, not of the church.

but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Sabbaterians always think of themselves as Jewish and under OT laws howbeit we Christians believe ourselves to be in Christ subject only to the law of Christ. (Gal. 6:2, 1 Cor.9:12)
---Lee1538 on 11/28/09


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...some people like to view themselves as a minority, an elitist little group whom only God favors and the only ones who truly obey the commandments of the Lord
******

and society claims elite groups as discriminating against others ...carnal minds HATE God and Truth in His Word always seeking to discredit and reject his commandments and Truth loving the WORLD and everything in it truly NOT subject to Gods Laws because AGAINST God Rom 8:7

Deut 7:6-9 ...LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himselfmercy with them that love him(God) and keep his (Gods) commandments to a thousand generations

few who are chosen do not love the world and all its god 2Corin 4:4
---Rhonda on 11/27/09


Yes, Christ was and is responsible for them (all of them) from the cradle to the grave and beyond. Christ redeemed them all of them, not coz they believe, but coz God set his love upon them and gave them to Christ. They will all come to faith, as they shall all be taught of God and those whom God teaches will come to Christ and not a counterf.
---steven-rem7000 on 11/27/09


I do not see anything wrong in anyone believing they are a part of the remnant. It would mean that we are in fact in Christ. Why should we be ashame of our position? Why should any other Christian object to that position if he is also a part of the body of Christ? Just because they don't feel a part of the body, does not mean everyone should feel as they do. It is a special elite group. God chose that group when He saved us. In fact we as the remnant had nothing to do in the matter since we all heading to hell anyway. That God chose this remnant, is the miracle, for He could have chosen to save none.
---MarkV. on 11/27/09


Cluny-**What's all this fascination with being part of a remnant?

I guess that some people like to view themselves as a minority, an elitist little group whom only God favors and the only ones who truly obey the commandments of the Lord.

And if you know anything about Adventism, they believe themselves to be the remnant of the endtimes as they will be the ones persecuted not for Christ but for observing the Jewish sabbath. Again, it is meaningful for some to be in a minority.
---Lee1538 on 11/25/09


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The Lord just put this on my heart. How many times have you "ran into" fellow Christians while out shopping, eating, traveling, etc. The Holy Spirit has a way of drawing us together. We have met some of our long-term friends in this manner. These are not coincidences. Isn't it amazing?
---KarenD on 11/24/09


\\Cluny - honestly, your comments in the threads make it sound like you think that you are better than the people who (in your perception) think they are better than others, which is ironic.\\

If that's what you think I'm saying then you've clearly missed the point.

\\People who've put Christ first naturally want to meet others whose faith is important to them, and it's hard to find others like that. You seem judgmental of people who are not complacent in their faith. \\

There's a big difference between not being complacent in your faith and thinking you're a member of a special elite class.

Apparently, you think your church is full of people who do NOT put Christ first--at least in a way that meets your standards.
---Cluny on 11/24/09


People who've put Christ first naturally want to meet others whose faith is important to them, and it's hard to find others like that. You seem judgmental of people who are not complacent in their faith. ---Dru on 11/23/09

Actually, Dru, people who've put Christ first want to reach a lost and dying world. They witness and are extremely active in a local church. They go into prisons, jails, homeless shelters, nursing homes, etc. I expect if you visit a few churches in Houston, you'll find people like that. No need to have some kind of meet-up. Unless, of course, you are really just trying to start your own church.
---KarenD on 11/24/09


Dru, I thought that your statement, "even if God places us in different churches, it's nice to meet for encouragement and fellowship," was interesting. I think I understand what you are saying, and that is, that there must not be any "encouragement and fellowship" at the institutional church. Otherwise, why would people need to get together outside of "church?"

Maybe I am reading more into this topic, but it sounds like the institution church is not providing for "encouragement and fellowship."

The institutional church provides a show with spectators in attendence, looking at the back of each other heads.
---Rod4Him on 11/23/09


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I wish we could meet more people like this in our area...even if God places us in different churches, it's nice to meet for encouragement and fellowship.

Cluny - honestly, your comments in the threads make it sound like you think that you are better than the people who (in your perception) think they are better than others, which is ironic.

People who've put Christ first naturally want to meet others whose faith is important to them, and it's hard to find others like that. You seem judgmental of people who are not complacent in their faith.

We'd be happy to meet with you, too! We did not intend to criticize or act superior. But it sounds like meeting you would be unpleasant, because you've been quick to attack others.
---Dru on 11/23/09


Blessed be the name of the Lord. Joseph, you have explained it perfectly. To God the glory.
---MarkV. on 11/23/09


Romans 9:27 ...number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved..

Romans 11:5 ...there is a remnant according to the election of grace

Revelation 12:17 ...make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

The remnant is the little flock of Christ Luke 12:32 ...chosen by God to come out of the world and ITS God 2Corin 4:4 ...to be separate from the world 2Corin 6:17 from ITS ways ITS traditions

spiritual Israel obeys Christ ...many are called but are chosen to receive truth and OBEY

today is NOT the only day of salvation for the world ...it is the only day for those who were called by God to come out of the world
---Rhonda on 11/22/09


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