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How To Study Scriptures

How do you study the scriptures? What do you do if you have trouble understanding a verse?

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 ---trey on 11/23/09
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Shawn T. thank you for your answer, and I appreciate your answers.
Here is what I am reading from you. That God does not display His Grace to anyone until Jesus came and died on the Cross. Is that correct? "The Covenant of Grace is the agreement between God and a sinner which God promises salvation through faith, and the sinner promises a life of faith and obedience" All Old Testament believers as well as contemporary believers are part of the covenant of Grace. If Old Testament believers were not saved by Grace through faith, how were they saved? Are you saying as Kathr that no one was a genuine believer in the Old T. Why were they called saint? Or believers? Don't understand you theology.
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


-- Paul9594 :

Brother, I believe Kathr is referring to St. Paul not you (-: when she stated, "MarkV, Paul is talking about CHRISTIANS"
---ShawnM.T. on 12/3/09


-- MarkV :

Brother, We've been Sealed & obtained a Mediator of a better covenant established in Grace, while OT Saints where waiting on a promise of Grace, but none have redeemed Salvation yet!!

MarkV, It seem like you're confusing Grace with Mercy, in your question of 'how could they have Faith if God wasn't Gracious to them?'. It's only b/c of God's Mercy that we've been given the time to come into Faith, Heard by the Word of God's Drawing Spirit, so we don't die in our sin as we deserve.


-- Miche :

Sister, There's only one Grace! Those who expired before the Finished Works of the Cross, who had Faith in receiving God's coming Promise of Grace in Christ, shall receive His Living Sealed in Rev.7:1-9.
---ShawnM.T. on 12/3/09


kathr4453:

Not, I'm not talking about true Christians, I'm talking about apostates, those in rebellion to Christ words!
---Paul9594 on 12/3/09

Paul, too funny. I was referring to Paul in scripture. Many like to take a single verse with no back up and form a whole doctrine upon it. How dangerous.

All truths have 2-3 witnesses and for this we need to read ALL to make sure we understand the context.

Those Johnny one notes just don't establish truth.

I also agree we need to throw away everything but our Bibles and believe the Lord will lead us into all truth just as He said.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


kathr4453:

You said:

///MarkV, Paul is talking about CHRISTIANS here Let's keep in perspective.///


Better said:

No I'm not talking about true Christians. But apostates that KNOWINGLY do not consent to THE TEACHINGS of Christ!

1 Timoothy 6:3-4


If ANY MAN teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the doctrine which is according to godliness,

4 He is proud, knowing nothing....
---Paul9594 on 12/3/09




kathr4453:

Not, I'm not talking about true Christians, I'm talking about apostates, those in rebellion to Christ words!
---Paul9594 on 12/3/09


lee1538:

By the way I do think you have a heart for Christ.

But some of your doctrine is off, thanks to apostasy.


We are not saved by perfect doctrine.

But the foundation of it is crucial.

Some can be lead astray for a long time of suffering not receiving the benefits of faith with power in Him, because their faith is not TRULY connected to Him.

And many can be surprised by Matthew 7:21-23!
---Paul9594 on 12/3/09


MarkV, Paul is talking about CHRISTIANS here Let's keep in perspective.

Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and the WORD of His Grace, ---Acts 18:27, is saying--

Who greatly helped through grace. It is through grace only that our GIFTS work.
To already Saved:
Ephesians 4
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


11And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers, 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


Dear Children of the Father:

Its best to study scriptures by throwing away ALL added words by the apostates, which some of you, His children have picked up!

Proverbs 30:6, Deut 4:2 Add/subtract not unto His words,

Ritual law, ritually clean, law is bondage, grace age, Jewish Law, and many others not in His Word!

Law in Hebrew is Torah, meaning instructions/teachings, some are in the form of commandments.

Why would you want to throw away your Father's instructions/teachings?

Instead, THROW AWAY Old Testament, New Testament TERMINOLOGY AND THE DOCTRINES ATTATCHED TO IT not found in Scripture.

It's always Covenant not Testament!

Make it easy 4 you, delete the added words to His Scripture!
---Paul9594 on 12/3/09


Kathr, says,
"MarkV PLEASE find scripture where faith comes through grace. That is a LIE."

Acts 18:27, "And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him, and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through Grace," In order for a person to believe in the Word of God he has to have faith.
Eph. does not say you receive Grace when you have faith. That is turning the whole passage to your benefit.
"For by Grace you have been saved Through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast. get that?
It does not say we are saved by faith through Grace.
---MarkV. on 12/3/09




kathr why can you not discuss things in a godly manner?
---mary on 12/3/09


Kathr, I would like to hear from Shawn T, not from you. I respect Shawn's impute for he is a godly person that works for the Lord not for himself. I don't respect yours for they are always condemning in nature. Evil comes out of you everyday that is why I rebuked you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


MarkV, those words you used are from R.C. Sproul.

Do you have any of your own, living waters out of your own belly you can share.

Lisa use to do this too.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


Shawn T. we know that the ultimate atonement is Jesus Christ. That I know we both agree. Second, the Old Testament saints, looked forward to that atonement, just as we look backwards at the atonement, but neither the Old Testament saints or us are saved yet from the calamity to come, the wrath of God. The same salvation promised to them is the same salvation promised to us. If there is only one way to be saved or to receive that promise, the same has to hold true to the old testament saints. It is the same gospel. Just as Grace and mercy were given to us, so the same Grace and mercy were given to them. What is different between them and us? That Christ came? none are saved from the calamity yet. We are both hanging on to the promise.
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


Please print: Warning

R.C. Sproul publicly endorsed Hugh Ross's book, Creation and Time, which is a polemic for progressive creationism/theistic evolution, and thereby, is a denial of orthodox Christianity's literal/factual/historical interpretation of the first eleven chapters of the Book of Genesis. This NavPress published book also openly attacks the creation movement and the major people involved (2/26/96, Christian News).

From this endorsement, R.C. Sproul agrees with Ross's evolutionary philosophy. Ross teaches that the Earth is billions of years old and that physical death fully existed long before Adam. If death preceded sin, then death is not the penalty for sin, and Christ's death on the cross accomplished nothing!)
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


Shawn, so are you saying that because Abraham had faith that what God said about the messiah was true, he was saved?
Isn't that why Jesus was in hell for 3 days after his death?
To free those who died believing God was sending him to save them from eternal death?
Does that mean there are 2 types of grace?
One NOT fulfilled in the OT but fulfilled in the NT?
Would you say the OT is Grace, given with the promise and the NT is Grace, the promise fulfilled?
What about the instances in OT like Elijah, who did not even see death but was taken straight to heaven?
---miche3754 on 12/3/09


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The Bible uses the word salvation which means to be rescued from some calamity. Also refers to our ultimated redemption from sin and reconciliation to God. In this sense, salvation is from the ultimate calamity-the judgment of God. The ultimate salvation is accomplished by Christ who "delivers us from the wrath to come" 1 Thess. 1:10. The Bible also uses the term Salvation in many senses. There is a sense in which we were saved (from the foundation of the world), we are been saved (by the work of God in history), we are saved (by been in a justified state), we are being saved (by being sanctified or made holy), and we will be saved (experience the consummation of our redemption in heaven) Past, present and future.
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


MarkV PLEASE find scripture where faith comes through grace. That is a LIE.

FAITH comes by Hearing God's Word.

Ephesians says GRACE comes through FAITH.

We are saved By Grace THROUGH faith.

It does NOT SAY we are saved by Faith coming through Grace.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09

Amen again!!!!!
There is no shame in saying what thus says the Lord!
God's word is POWER, TRUTH and LIGHT.
---miche3754 on 12/3/09


and faith comes through Grace. If God was not Gracious to them, they could not have faith. Am I reading you correctly?
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


MarkV PLEASE find scripture where faith comes through grace. That is a LIE.

FAITH comes by Hearing God's Word.

Ephesians says GRACE comes through FAITH.

We are saved By Grace THROUGH faith.

It does NOT SAY we are saved by Faith coming through Grace.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


Thank you Shawn M.T.


Romans 5:15--- For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Yes, and this GIFT BY GRACE is BY one MAN Jesus Christ.

Romans 4 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Therefore without FAITH there can be no GIFT BY Grace of Eternal Life In Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09

BIG AMEN, KATH!!!
---miche3754 on 12/3/09


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Shawn T. Hello brother, nice to hear from you.
I am not sure I read what you are saying correctly so I will ask for you to post your answer to me again. Are you saying that Abraham had faith without Grace been given to Him? I didn't think you said that because you mention, "Grace much more abounds" meaning they got Grace in order to believe otherwise how could they have faith? Believing comes through Grace.
I said that the O.T. saints looked forward to the coming of Christ, and we look backwards to the works of Christ. But they could not look forward to the coming of Christ if they did not have faith, and faith comes through Grace. If God was not Gracious to them, they could not have faith. Am I reading you correctly?
---MarkV. on 12/3/09


Brother, It's correct that anyone of Faith(OT included) shall be Saved by the Salvation of Eternal Life through receiving God's Grace in Christ, but this Saving Grace was not available until after the Cross.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/2/09


Thank you Shawn M.T.


Romans 5:15--- For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Yes, and this GIFT BY GRACE is BY one MAN Jesus Christ.

Romans 4 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Therefore without FAITH there can be no GIFT BY Grace of Eternal Life In Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/09


Kath, Please show me where I accused you?
And when?
You went off on a tangent, Kath.
Simple as that. It is time you reign it in.
Stop feeding your flesh right now and see through the spirit of God that I have not accused you of anything only corrected.
That is it and there is a difference
If you would slow down and get a hold of yourself, I would not have thought you said one thing when in reality you may not have.
When you are operating clearly in the Spirit of God you don't have to worry about getting upset only obeying him and giving his word.
Stop getting upset at people and let God deal with them.
---miche3754 on 12/3/09


Trey, as I said before, it does not matter what Bible you use, when you want to find out something a person has to search every means he has at his disposal. I have four Bibles. I have different one's because the commentaries differ and in order to get a correct meaning, a wordstudy Bible is better. It does give you the word meaning in its original language.
What I use is, "The Complete Wordstudy Of the New Testament and of the Old Testament. KJV edited by Spiros Zodhiates.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


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Kathr, again, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ. You can continue stalking me all you want. You cannot hide from God. He has a place for people like you.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


I would agree to reading and following all the words of the Gospels. I would not throw away the KJV. It was translated from Greek and Hebrew to english. It has been updated not retranslated. They are not the same thing.

If you wish to study on the RSV then that is fine. All the Bible must be studied with prayer and a heart to follow the will of GOD.

YOu can study different books of the Bible. YOu need to read the whole Bible at least once to get a good overview. Topics are studied by using a concordance that allows you to look up all the words dealing with one subject. Using all scripture together to find truth.
---Samuel on 12/2/09


Dear children of the Father:

A few my tokens of advice to get rid of apostates doctrines:

Stop reading/learning from any man or commentaries that dont consent to Christ words. Follow Him all the way, not up to a point as some teach.
1 timothy 6:3-4

Best translation is ASV, its 97%-98% faithful translated ONCE.

Throw away KJV has been translated 16 times at least!

Learn Hebrew/Greek numeric, to catch apostates translation of what is not said in original text!

FIRST, learn, memorize Christ words ASV.

Any interpretation or translation should not contradict what Christ HONORED as His Word, Law and The Prophets, His Torah.

Will you follow His set examples or apostates?
---Paul9594 on 12/2/09


Dear Children of the Father:

Its is key to understand that the Apostolic EPISTLES where taught into the church age to be followed, because there was not New Testament until 200 to 250 yrs.

Even apostates agreed with this.

It is key to understand that Christ came for the Jew first, but then He goes after His other sheep the Gentiles to bring them INTO his ONE FOLD. (John 10:16)

Since Christ came for the Jew first, Should we throw away all the Gospels teachings?

No, why not? Because Christ did not teach different for the Gentiles doctrine to His disciples/Apostles who would go after the lost sheep of Gentiles!

Would He forget to teach the foundational doctrine being so important for the gentile? No!
---Paul9594 on 12/2/09


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James, concerning Kathr writings, they are too many to go back and check the day and hour she spoke since she speaks against anything I say every single day. If you want to go back and check back for yourself, you are welcome to.
Concerning Grace, I am sorry but you don't exercise faith in order to get grace. If you read what Paul wrote you will see that very clear. We are saved by Grace "Trough faith" I believe you have it backwards. You will find what I said in Eph. 4-10. There is no implicit statements to get you confuse, only explicit ones.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


--James :

G-od's
R-iches
A-t
C-hrist's
E-xpense

Nice acronym for remembering Grace!!

Sin reigns unto death by the entering of the law, that the offense of one man might abound upon all men. But now b/c of Christ, where sin abounded, Grace does much more abound & reign through Righteousness unto Eternal Life.

Individuals MIGHT be confusing & mixing up the beginning of Faith receive by the Drawing Word of God's Spirit, with the receiving of God's Grace once in Christ.

-- MarkV :

Brother, It's correct that anyone of Faith(OT included) shall be Saved by the Salvation of Eternal Life through receiving God's Grace in Christ, but this Saving Grace was not available until after the Cross.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/2/09


Miche I said : Adam and Eve did not have a CHOICE to live after the FLESH or live by the Spirit of the Life of Christ in them. This would be a life of FAITH. They did not live by faith in the Risen Christ. They did not have 2 Natures

They had free will to choose to obey or disobey.

Just wanted to clear that up.


MarkV, I'm so bored with your rantings and ravings. I can't hear you through your nastiness. The Holy Spirit doesn't scream and ranting and call names and curse through us, so it MUST but your flesh. Your FLESH is enmity with God and has ZIP to say!

Go find someone else to bully and beat up on. Just as Leon said...DANGEROUS people out there are the ranters and ravers.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


Markv, Can you show me where Kathr4453 said no one was saved when in many threads I have read her understanding on Hebrews 11 that they were saved by faith.

I also do not agree with your statement of faith here that grace was given before faith.

Grace is a gift given because of our faith. Grace is the reward of our faith. God does not reward a sinner first with grace before our faith and trust in Him.

I don't understand your definition of grace either. By your definition I am not saved. Yet, I am saved by God's definition of GRACE:

G-od's
R-iches
A-t
C-hrist's
E-xpense
---James on 12/2/09


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Kathr, you say to us, "Just say we don't understand grace"
when it is you that does not understand Grace. What it means. Everyone from the beginning who had faith, had faith because God was Gracious to them. If God was not gracious they would not have had faith. We are saved by Grace through faith. "For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" Even the beginning of faith, the disposition to seek salvation, is itself a work of Grace and the gift of God. From the beginning, God has saved many people. Those with great faith, as Miche has mentioned. You on the other hand think no one was saved. What do you think God was doing? Condemning everyone to hell?
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


Miche, show me EXACTLY where I said Adam/Eve didn't have a Choice.

I won't continue a discussion with words I never stated.


Miche You did accuse me, AND MarkV jumped on it like a buzzard on a dead caucus.

Secondly, you are not HEARING anything I'm saying. I was answering the Blog question. How do you study Scripture! Answer? Very very carefully studying to show myself approved RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth.

I just don't casually and carelessly throw around the word GRACE as you and MarkV do.



Adam/Eve again DID NOT fall from GRACE! Period!

The GRACE of God that brings SALVATION to lost, dying, separated from God SINNERS has appeared to all men.

Discussion OVER!
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


Kath, I didn't accuse you.(please go back and read).
All I did was correct you. You said Adam/Eve didn't have a choice but they did. They could have stayed innocent but they chose to believe a lie.

I didn't stir up strife and Im not the one constantly calling others names, saying they aren't Christian or anything else.
Thats not Christian behavior and should not be tolerated from anyone no matter if they disagree or not.

I didn't make it about me because it isn't. It's about God and lifting him up.

why are you so angry? Is it because I corrected you? Aren't we supposed to sharpen each other with God's word? I accept your correction, why can't you accept mine? Is it because Markv agreed with something I said?
---miche3754 on 12/2/09


miche, What strife? You started strife here when you falsely accused me. It's not about YOU or anyone agreeing with YOU. because YOU made it about YOU and not GOD, YOU accused me out of personal selfish self.

Yes OT saints certainly found Grace with God. Those who's FAITH looked forward to Christ.

But THIS is the GRACE I am talking about. The GRACE we NOW have IN CHRIST.

MarkV does not believe THIS GRACE is to ALL who receive Jesus Christ. He believes in irresistible Grace only to a select few. However if one can frustrate God's Grace then it is not IRRESISTIBLE in the first place.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


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I apologize if there was any confusion.
---miche3754 on 12/2/09

Miche the vendetta is all MarkV's not mine. As you see, his vindictive attitude again is displayed in causing contention and division where none was ever needed. Even you posted on another blog his nasty attitude towards women.

My comment to both of you was in LOVE and just a reminder that GRACE as you stated Adam/Eve fell from was and is not scriptural.

For Adam/Eve to FALL from Grace, would mean they were first saved by Grace. If they were created sinless there was no salvation necessary to be saved by Grace and then fall from Grace when they sinned. They lived in a state of INNOCENCE not GRACE. If they lived in Grace, they would not have died.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


Kath, Grace was given even in the OT.
Not to Adam and Eve, but to others.
Noah, Moses, Abraham, David, and the list goes on.
God gave them grace because they had faith in HIM.
Look at Job who lost it all yet still had faith in God. He even said "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away, bless the name of the Lord".
Abraham who was told to sacrifice his one and only son! What faith he had in God and God loved him and gave him grace because of that faith.

In fact, a few months ago we had the same discussion and you actually agreed that God did show his grace and mercy through out the entire Bible. It was a conversation you and I had with Shawn M.T.
please lets discuss with love and undertanding not strife.
---miche3754 on 12/2/09


Miche, MarkV LOVES to jump in the middle of anyone who accuses me of hostility and add flames to a fire only in your imagination.

That is not of Christ....does not bear any Fruit of the Spirit in any way, but causes contention which is of SATAN.

And MarkV comments about being saved by Grace in the OT still doesn't apply to Adam & Eve as you and Miche suggest being saved by Grace before they sinned. What you are saying is WE can lose our salvation as they did.

If MarkV agrees with this..no hostility here at all. Just to say neither of you understand GRACE! Grace is a GIFT and was NEVER given to Adam & Eve before they sinned. So they could NOT have fallen from GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


Kath, I was talking about a personal vendetta with Markv. I am not trying to get involved in it.
I understand that Adam and Eve did not have Christ.
Before they sinned, they had Christ(God) right there in their midst.
They seperated themselves from him by disobeying His command. That is all. I wasn't disagreeing with you about them not having Christ, because they didn't.
I was talking about how they did have a choice in the Garden before the fall.
I apologize if there was any confusion.
---miche3754 on 12/2/09


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Miche, I agreed with you because you are correct. You are correct in many things. And when you are I always say you are and also to Anne and others. Maybe in the election we are not but that is ok. In the case with Kathr, it doesn't matter if you disagree with somethings, she becomes hostile right away. Everyday, I hear what she has to say to me.
There is only one way of salvation, Grace through faith. In the Old Testament it was grace through faith in God, under the New Covenant it is Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. In the Old they looked forward to the coming of Christ, we look backward to the works of Christ. Christ is God in the Old and the New because He has always been God.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


MICHE, personal vendetta? What are you talking about? What has gotten into you? I told you about GRACE IN CHRIST JESUS, Adam /Eve NEVER HAD that kind of GRACE in Christ!!!

If Adam and Eve never sinned, created man made out of clay would still be running naked in a very small piece of real-estate.

God must have had something MORE WONDERFUL planned...more than Adam/Eve were given....Adoption, an inheritance, the Riches of Christ, Co-heirship, Heaven where NO EVIL or a serpant could ever again enter in to deceive...and that WE CAN NEVER lose our Salvation by the GRACE we now have through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST..shall I go on?

I wonder why our END is far more than our beginning?
---kathr4453 on 12/2/09


Pastor Jim, I don't know where you get the idea I have a problem with the writers of Scripture. None of the writers are adversaries to anyone. All they did was write the Word of God. You also said that I would be condemned if I celebrated Dec. 25th because it was a pagan holiday. You mentioned idol worship as you reason. I answered that no genuine Christian is condemned by anything they do or not do, (Works) but that they are saved by grace. So there would be no condemnation to someone who would want to celebrate Christ's birthday.
As far as Kathr is concern, I have more been more then enough courtieous to her, she calls me the antichrist, not saved, and more names then I can think of. Which only gives evidence of who she is.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09


Kath, from the Grace for all Blog,
I am not sure why you were addressing me but I am going to answer.
Adam and Eve had God's grace BEFORE they chose to eat of the fruit of Know. of Good and Evil.
If they had remained in God's grace, and ate of the Tree of Life, there would have been no reason to send Jesus for us to have eternal life with God.
BUT Adam and Eve chose to sin instead by disobeying God and falling from his grace, imputing sin on all mankind.
I am wondering why on another blog you understood this but now you are at my throat.
Is it because Markv agreed with what I said and you now have a personal vendetta? I don't get involved in them. This is supposed to be about God's word and nothing else.
---miche3754 on 12/2/09


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Abraham OUR example, just a faith man?

Genesis 18:19 - I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep THE WAY of YAHWEH, to do JUSTICE and JUDGMENT, that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Isaac blessed:

Genesis 26:5 - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, commandments, statutes, and my laws.

Commandments, statutes and laws even in those days, before there was ever a Israelite, or a Jew! Who TEACHES His Law/Torah is Jewish?

Abraham who received the promise by faith was also after keeping commandments, laws, statutes!

HAS the Grace age been told the full story of Abrahams faith AND obedience to His laws?
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


MARKV. I don't agree with everything Kathr says and I'm sure she doesn't agree with me either. I just mention common courtesy (my opinion).
AGAIN. I do NOT comdenm you NOR do I Judge you. I quoted scripture only and said it was between you and He who judges. Here's where you are in denial, I am NOT your enemy since I did NOT write scripture. So the One who DID write scripture is your adversary. You deny this and flip to me as your scapegoat. I simply quoted. NOTHING ELSE. I gave you this example. IF I BELIEVE YOU ARE SAVE BY WORKS, WOULD YOU SHOW ME SCRIPTURE(ABSOLUTE TRUTH) THAT I WILL BE JUDGED BY MY DECISION. IT IS MY DECISION, AND HIS JUDGEMENT. You would(or should) say that to me Salvation is by Grace only, or be Judged!
---PASTOR_JIM on 12/1/09


PLEASE READ CAREFULLY MARKV. No one in the OT ever called God ABBA FATHER!! ONLY Jesus Christ in the NT ever Called God Abba Father
JESUS SPEAKING.
Mark 14:36
And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee, take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Don't you understand WHO WE ARE???
---kathr4453 on 12/1/09


MarkV... Nothing like attacking someone (Kathr) personally. Not very Christian!
#3) Is wrong. He was not addresed as Father until Christ appeared and we became his children by the Holy Spirit. It was then that we were able to call him ABBA. (Literally Daddy)
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/30/09


Pastor Jim is correct.

AND No one in the OT were begotten sons through Jesus Christ. We can call God Daddy because of the Life of the RISEN Christ,who is the firstborn from the dead, the Son of God IN US...Our standing as sons and daughters are because we are IN CHRIST and He IN US, bone of His bone flesh of His flesh.

That's why I don't believe MarkV is really saved/Born Again....He would KNOW these things, and he doesn't.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/09


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Pastor Jim, you also speak of no Father in the Old Testament and say,

"#3) Is wrong. He was not addressed as Father until Christ appeared and we became his children by the Holy Spirit. It was then that we were able to call him ABBA. (Literally Daddy)"

Have you not read, "Do you thus deal with the Lord, O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father who bought you?"
Deu. 32:6,
And how about what He told David, "He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son." 2 Sam. 7:13,14.
"He shall cry to Me, you are my Father, my God and the rock of my salvation" Psa. 89:26. many more.
---MarkV. on 12/1/09


Pastor Jim, you answered me only because of my response to you. It was a good response until you condemn me. Which really means nothing to me since what you said then was also wrong. You can join her quest, she has been on me for a long time, and I don't mind because it only exposes the false she teaches. No Trinity, no salvation by grace in the Old Testament, no Father in the Old Testament. Just plain false teachings. You want to follow me on every blog as she does, go ahead. I have the Word of God right here next to me. She told me about you and I didn't listen. I thought you were someone that others could discuss godly matters with but I was wrong, if it is not your way, then there is no way to heaven. There is enough of those on the blogs.
---MarkV. on 12/1/09


MarkV... Nothing like attacking someone (Kathr) personally. Not very Christian!

Mark you are right in #1)
The OT has named a Triune God. The Jewish Shema (Deut 6:4-9)"Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One". The Hebrew name here is Elohim which is plural for 3 in one. The Jews did not understand this mystery.

#2) NT Is Correct as well.

#3) Is wrong. He was not addresed as Father until Christ appeared and we became his children by the Holy Spirit. It was then that we were able to call him ABBA. (Literally Daddy)
---PASTOR_JIM on 11/30/09


MarkV: "Steven G, the only reason I answered you is because what you suggested is really rediculous."

Is that the only reason? Search your heart for it is not the only reason you have answered me. If what I say is rediculous, then keep me as a fool for a fool does not understand spritual matters. And no matter how much you try to convince me about spiritual matters, I will not understand because I am a fool. I would rather be a fool than a person who thinks he knows God.
---Steveng on 11/30/09


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Dear friend, just as it happened during Pharisees, and the Catholic reign, with Gods people mind being ruled by bad doctrine, so it has happened today.

Leaders either meaning well or knowingly rule Gods people mind with in part bad doctrine, even in our day!

Is anything new under the sun?
Eccl 3:15
That which IS hath been long ago,
and that which IS TO BE hath long ago BEEN: and GOD SEEKETH again that which is PASSED away.

Good news, its ULTIMATELY impossible for theVERY elect to be deceived.

Are you of the very elect?

To be plucked out of false teachings ruling Gods people minds in our generation?

Then be obedient to the words of Christ do not contradict to His teachings.
---Paul9594 on 11/30/09


Kathr, You speak alot with no knowledge of what you are talking about. You suggest no Holy Trinity. Did you not read Psalms 2:7? Was He the (Son) not pronounce and also the Father? Psalms were written from Moses time to the late six century.
Here is what you have said,
1. "Here's the problem, in the OT God was not Father, Son and Holy Spirit" If He was not who was He?
2. "So when we look at it through N.T. eyes, the Father is the Father in relation to the Son, His begotten Son" What was He in relation to the Son in the O.T.? Was He not the Father?
3. "In the OT no one referred to God or prayed to God by saying Father"
Again, if He was not the Father, who was He?
---MarkV. on 11/29/09


The purpse of studying the Word of God is to realize that the OT is Jesus prophesied and the NT is Jesus fulfilled. That kinda puts everything into a certain perspective.

With that perspective in place, it's easy to see that studying the Word is really a matter of accepting the Word, which allows God to build on that foundation of acceptance.

Now, you can spend a lifetime reading the Word and never come to realize the purpose of scripture...

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
---BruceB on 11/29/09


Actually Steveng, that is quite true. We have here MarkV as an example of doing just that. They don't know how to cross reference, accusing those who do as confusing the subject by adding more subjects, never realizing it's ALL the same subject, with back up. So many just cherry pick a verse here and there called verse snatchers, never reading the WHOLE LETTER or the whole of anything...and will NEVER get the WHOLE picture of truth. We even have those who add to scripture what is not there..

1)RE: slain in the spirit etc.

2)or change definitions...RE, whosoever means the Elect.

So by their standards, Whosoever takes the Mark of the Beast MUST BE THE ELECT CALVINISTS by their own definition!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/28/09


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Steven G, the only reason I answered you is because what you suggested is really rediculous. The use of numbers in passages was put by people who wanted to put all the books in order. If they were in disorder you would not know what came next. And you say it was wrong to put them. Just imagine the Bible with no verses are numbers. It's like throwing all the books and stories, commands, like a puzzle and then try to figure out which came first second, and so on. And it would not be a book that has a begining and an ending. The ending could be the beginning.
Reading Scripture like any novel or book is correct because that is called Literal interpretation.
---MarkV. on 11/25/09


MarkV: "...you say Christians read a verse trying to analyze it believing there is a reason for it, does that mean there is no reason for the verses and passages? You need to help us."

I did help you - to read the bible through the eyes of a child... You read a novel or a school textbook at face value, why not the bible?

Chapters and verses of the bible were added five or six hundred years ago. As you well know, people using verses take the meaning out of context. This is the main reason so many interpretations and so many denominational "churches."
---Steveng on 11/25/09


I would like to say "thank you" to all of you for your comments. There are several good points made.

I believe prayer helps. I have had times when I just couldn't understand a scripture and then I prayed about it and read it again and could understand what God was saying.

Sometime however, I will wrestle with a verse for hours, or days, and sometimes it seems a little frustrating.

Do any of you ever study with a friend? Do any of you ever ask someone for help with a verse?

Lord bless each of you.
---trey on 11/25/09


Steven G, you said,

"People today are just too educated to study the bible. The absolute worse thing done to God's word is the adding of verse numbers. Today's christians read a verse and then try to analyze it believing that there must be a reason for it."

First, do you have a Bible with no numbers?
Second, how do you make the numbers disappear? with your mind?
Third, if no numbers do you look for one verse that say's in the beginning and work from there looking for the what? since you don't know what comes next.
Forth, you say Christians read a verse trying to analyze it believing there is a reason for it, does that mean there is no reason for the verses and passages? You need to help us.
---MarkV. on 11/25/09


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People today are just too educated to study the bible. The absolute worse thing done to God's word is the adding of verse numbers. Today's christians read a verse and then try to analyze it believing that there must be a reason for it.

Do you read a friend's letter having verse numbers? Then why read the epistles any other way?

Read the bible from the beginning to the end through the eyes of a child - without concordances, author's opinions, novels, and other reference materials. Just you, the bible and the Holy Spirit. The OT sets the foundation to the NT. Without the OT, christianity, as we know it today, wouldn't exist.
---Steveng on 11/24/09


I think there are some good ideas on these blogs. The most important is to pray for understanding and wisdom from the Holy Spirit. Study helps are good too as well as being sure to read everything in context. Read the scriptures before and after the point that you are having trouble with. Bible teaches that we need to "rightly divide the word of God" so it needs to be line upon line and precept upon precept.
---jody on 11/24/09


If you have trouble rely on the h.s. try to under stand who is speaking, who are they speaking to and what are they speaking about, i find it takes away confusion and contradiction
---michael_e on 11/24/09


What do I do when I have trouble understanding a verse?

First, invite the Holy Spirit to help you understand.

Secondly, break the passage apart. First, understand its context. Can I define where the passage begin and ends? What is the overall meaning of the passage that the verse is contained in? What do the verses before and after it mean?, Secondly, break the verse down into phrases. Can you understand parts of the verse? Is there a portion that you do not understand? Is there a word that you do not understand? Use dictionaries, lexicons, concordances.

Third, put it down for a while and come back to it later. I suggest at least a week, preferably a month. You will find it easier to understand if you get away from it.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/24/09


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Trey, when I have trouble with a passage, I compare that passage to who God is. His nature, character and attributes. If what I come out with is oppose to the nature, character and attributes of God, then I know I have got it wrong. Because many passages imply something, and those passages are the one's most have trouble with. What seems to imply to one person might not seem to imply to the next. But if we have our theology God centered, we will know when we are wrong in an answer. People refuse to do that because they already believe something in another way, and if they change, it will be against what they always believed to be true so they refuse the Truth in front of them for that reason.
---MarkV. on 11/24/09


All I can say is, God is amazing...
Christ and the Cross must be our only foundation when we read scripture. There is so much more that we canNOT see when we read the scripture. HE does reveal HIS word and will change your mind.
---duane on 11/24/09


The only way to understand scripture is to see the Bible through the Genesis I window of numbers. This view opens with the introductory face of our God of Time as EVEning, morning, day. In this way we can see the path to salvation--Evening (mother of all living) to morning (Bright morning star), to Day (Light and Eternal Father of Time). The creation of man comes on the 6th day from God's image of 3-ways and likeness of 666. Then we can understand why the 7th day 777 is not counted. All scripture is structured from this beginning Bible math.
---Frank on 11/24/09


How? From Gen. - Rev., by the leading of God the Holy Spirit, at His good pleasure, in His due time.

What? I meditate (think) on it & trust God for an explanation, sooner or later. Often, Bible verses are explained in prior & /or accompaning verses. So, I reflect (make note) & continue reading, paying careful attention to "seemingly" mundane details, reinterations, elaborations, & other such potential pearls of wisdom God has imbedded in His book. It's a treasure hunt!!!

I've learned, I must first walk in (live) what God has given me to understand before He further adds to my understanding. Isn't that the way school is? :)
---Leon on 11/24/09


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I found a really neat commentary. It's only two volumes and it's affordable. It's called The Bible Knowledge Commentary.

Start with Genesis or the New Testament and read One chapter and then read the commentary on it. Read the second chapter and read the commentary on that also, and proceed like that.
OR you can do a word study. I studied JOY and after making notes in my notebook and studying what Jesus said about it, how to get it, how to keep it, etc., I now have Joy Unspeakable which Peter talks about in 1st Peter.
---Donna on 11/24/09


First I agree pray to GOD for understanding. Then read just read to gain context.

After which take whole books and break them down into what the book is about what is GOD pointing and wanting.

Then topically. Look up passages on a topic check the time period and surrounding passages for context of time and circumstance. Then gather all the other scriptures on the same topic. Compare each of them and bring them together so they all harmonize.
---Samuel on 11/24/09


The best way to understand scripture is to be concerned about The Lord's WILL/desires, wants, likes/dislikes (as opposed to "commands")...

Ephesians 5:17
"understand what the WILL of the Lord is".

He desires that we know "PRINCIPLES"...

Hebrews 5:12
"principles of God's word".

Salvation has been made available to everyone one on earth, but only if we move on to a mature devotion can we have the "guarantee" of ETERNAL LIFE...

Luke 3:6
"all flesh shall see the salvation of God".

Ephesians 1:14
"which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it".

UNDERSTAND His WILL.

Verses are from RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 11/24/09


Pray 90% and study 10%..its the only way to go. Very few understand what scripture means, they only know what scripture says.
---duane on 11/24/09


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"How do you study the scriptures?" Prayerfully.

"What do you do if you have trouble understanding a verse?" Pray.

As it is written "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, and upbraides not, and it shall be given him." James 1:5

"For the LORD gives wisdom: out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding." Prov. 2:6
---josef on 11/24/09


Prayerfully in the Holy Spirit. I usually suggest to people to read at least 5 verses before the verse you are pondering and also read at lease 5 verses after the verse you are pondering, and this will help you to understand the verse. Sometimes you will need to read a little more than 5 verses prior and after in order to come to the proper definition of the verse. Ask yourself, whom is the verse addressing? believers or nonbelievers, christians or nonchristians: and what is the subject or theme of the passage? Context is very important when reading scripture, else you could easily be led astray and wrongly attach or wrongly misapply meanings to verses which were never intended to have.
---Eloy on 11/24/09


The best way to study the scriptures is book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse.

It would also be good to use a good exhaustive concordance which translates english words to the original languages of Hebrew, Armaic, and Greek.
---Rob on 11/23/09


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