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Obedience Gets You To Heaven

Are you depending on your obedience to see you to heaven or are you depending on the obedience of ONE MAN to get you to heaven?

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 ---mima on 11/24/09
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The problem with this blog is many leave out the Cross or dont understand it. If you misrepresent a Christian as a sinner, you have tainted the holy image of Christianity itself.
We Christians are now saints.


The sin issue is over. We are set free.
---duane on 12/7/09


MarkV: "The big sin of pride has condemned you. I don't say all the SDA's because only a few are on line who claim sinlessness, because they follow the Sabbath. Sorry to hear you are heading to hell."

Again you assume the blasphemous power of assuming God's role in knowing the hearts of others, and judging them as worthy of the fires of hell.

I would remind you that the bearing of false witness is also a sin for which God (not me) will judge you.

(1) I never said that I was sinless in the sense that you mean - never having sinned. I believe that all Christians (me included) are FORMER sinners, and may by the power of the indwelling Christ cease sinning. But if you never try to quit sinning, you never will!
---jerry6593 on 12/7/09


JackB -**The one thing that would unite the world in peace under the grace and love of God and people still use it to condemn one another.

Like during the days of the Apostle Paul there are those who are "false brothers secretly brought in -who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery "- Gal.2:4.

There will be no end of that until the wheat is separated from the tares.
---Lee1538 on 12/6/09


The one thing that would unite the world in peace under the grace and love of God and people still use it to condemn one another. Its not like the Lord isnt trying to unite as all together in CHrist, but some people simply cant be equal to the rest. They have to be better than the next person. Im sorry but I believe that is what hell will be full of. Those without humility.

Could you imagine what the world would be like if everyone accepted Christ and stopped hating one another thinking they are better than the next person?

Its mind boggling
---JackB on 12/6/09


Jerry, sometimes you amaze me. Here, by your own intepretations of Scripture condemn yourself. The big sin of pride has condemned you. I don't say all the SDA's because only a few are on line who claim sinlessness, because they follow the Sabbath. Sorry to hear you are heading to hell, while all others who put their faith in Christ for their lives are heading to heaven.
By your definition of Scripture you have failed. My definition is that Christ was the only sinless person, and because of His sinless works, we are imputed His righteousness because we could not fulfilled a sinless life. Take the road of Christ and you will have eternal life. Leave the old traditions, or join the RCC in order to have a second chance in purgatory.
---MarkV. on 12/6/09




Jack, I love you man!! Who of us has earned anything beyond our own damnation? All fall short of the glory of God. Nonetheless we are granted a magnificient boon, our salvation, only by God's Grace. We are commended only to love God Our Creator and our fellow man. Oh Yes, and believe in the Love and light that Christ brought into our world. You've hit the nail on the head to my way of thinking and I say God Bless you!
---James on 12/6/09


Does God hate sin? Does He hate it less because Jesus gave His life as substitute for the penalty we deserve? Did Jesus encourage us to stop sinning or to continue sinning under grace?

Rom 6:1,2 What shall we say then Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Joh 8:11 .... go, and sin no more.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless

Why would Jesus ask us to do something that is impossible?
---jerry6593 on 12/6/09


Christ lived the sinless life, that we never could. All that believe in Him will never perish, but have eternal life.
---Tony on 12/5/09


//...are you depending on the obedience of ONE MAN to get you to heaven?

The ONE MAN is Jesus who is the one "whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption". 1 Cor. 1:30

The belief that one does no longer sins after becoming a Christian is truly contrary to Scripture as St. Paul tells us in Romans -

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.

7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

And 1 John tells Christians to confess their sins. Those that believe themselves to be sin free really do not have any relationship with the Lord as their sin acts as a barrier.
---Lee1538 on 12/5/09


Sorry guys but 1 John 1:8 says you do.

I dont know a single person on this earth who does not sin... well except for PastorJim, Paul and Jerry apparently.

If we were sinless, then why does 1:9 tell us that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us? A man who does not know Jesus Christ cant simply ask for forgiveness. God is not just to forgive an unbeliever. Christs blood has not paid for their sin. They havent sought him by faith yet.
---JackB on 12/5/09




Men who 'do not sin' only breed hatred. You ever notice that? Yet Gods laws are based on love.

That should be the very thing that opens a mans eyes to the deception he is under.
Yet it doesnt. Personal pride closes a mans heart to grace.

Its about love, mercy and grace. How can you guys miss that? I simply dont understand. Do you not realize that with what manner you judge men, so shall your Heavenly Father judge you? If you judge people with the law and spend you lives pointing our their sin and condemning them for it, you will be judged in the same manner. DO NOT doubt this. Its Biblical

You three gentlemen will fall before a Holy God. Whoever lives without mercy shall die without mercy.
---JackB on 12/5/09


And btw gentlement... are you seriously gonna tell me that you cant find 1 single example of Christians in the new testament that did wrong? Did the apostle Paul never sin after receiving Christ? Did Peter?
---JackB on 12/5/09


Seriously why cant we all just accept a free gift that God is trying to give us by faith and love one another realizing we are all just as equally filthy in Gods eyes before we come to His Son and equally righteous in His eyes when we accept Jesus Christ?

This self-exaltation and bickering is enough to make me ill.

None of us deserve it! God didnt hand pick any of us for any special reason! That would not be grace. God doesnt respect any of us. He does however love us.

We're all evil and we've all received grace for believing in Gods promises, just as Abraham did. Cant we just spend time praising God and encouraging one another in Christ rather than arguing about petty things?
---JackB on 12/5/09


Im A and B Explained:

1John 3:4-9
4 Every one that doeth :sin doeth also :lawlessness, and :sin
is :lawlessness... 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: Every one that
doeth sin hath not seen him, neither hath known him.
7 Little children, let no one lead you astray: who doeth :righteousness is righteous, even as HE is righteous: 8 who doeth :sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. TO THIS END was the Son of :God MANIFESTED, that he might
destroy the works of the devil. 9 Every one BORN of :God doeth no sin

Should we BECOME WITH THE UNDERSTANDING of the Apostles or the apostates?

Are you after His ways, or precepts of men?
---paul9594 on 12/5/09


Jerry6593:


Some people say they beleive in an all powerful God. But really their God is rather small, not so powerful God in their heart, until they grow in their understanding of His powers.

I think JackB needs growth in the areas of Phil 4:13 Jude, 1:24 and 1 John 3:4-9
---paul9594 on 12/5/09


God doesnt keep one from sinning. If HE could, there would be no need for Christ. God sent HIS SON to the Cross to set men free from sin. The Cross takes away sin. Mankind has no chance without the Cross.
---duane on 12/5/09


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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, The Obedience you need to be depending on to get you into Heaven is the Obedience of One Man/Christ, and that Obedience is in the renewed & changed Heart in Christ we receive when we're Reborn !!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/5/09


Worth repeating:
Stevenq.. Of course there is only 1 gospel.

Problem is Christianity has let in another gospel and it is widely accepted by those who are unable to humble themselves before a Holy God and admit they are filthy dirty sinners who can NEVER gain His favor. Their pride simply wont allow them to accept a free gift and theyll instead spend their entire Christian lives trying to earn it. This is NOT grace. (Romans 11:6)

They constantly try to assure themselves of their salvation by pointing out the faults of other brothers in Christ while lifting themselves up for their "obedience to Gods law".

I call them Pharistians (part Pharisee ,part Christian).
---MarkV. on 12/5/09


Jerry, how about your god, has he stopped you from sinning? are you finally going to tell us you are not a sinner because you keep every law?
---MarkV. on 12/5/09


---Paul9594: I have read with interest the foregoing discussion between you and JackB. Apparently, your God is able to keep you from sinning (Phil 4:13, Jud 1:24), and his is not.
---jerry6593 on 12/5/09


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Paul, Im usually not this slow but..

Are you saying that you,

(a) follow the 10 commandments perfectly daily because Christ DID and HIs righteousness is imputed to you?

or

(b) follow the 10 commandments perfectly daily because Christ gives you the power through the Holy Spirit to do so.

Are you (a) or (b)?

Lot of people change the meanings of the words justified, sanctified and glorified to meet the needs of their particular belief. As well as when you receive each of those things. Im still a little confused about you. My apologies.

I bold text the word perfectly because the LAW requires perfection, not just a good try.
---JackB on 12/5/09


Scripture shows the free gift of righteousness comes our way by virtue of our union with Christ. And is not really imputed, though Ive used the word in past, it is only to draw the thinking of those who used this word.

For the record:

Justification for entering salvation by faith "only" is NOT in contention, only how this justification becomes manifested because of your faith to be saved is CONNECTED, UNITED to the TRUE power of the works of His death on the cross

There is confusion between JUSTIFICATION and sanctification because of commentaries and bad teachers, they do not understand the Law and ONE of its purposes to vividly show Salvation, justification, and sanctification works of Christ!
---Paul9594 on 12/2/09


Obediance supports the idea of the character of a servant.However when one becomes a son of God then it changes from obedience to sonship and servant attitude is obsolete.
---earl on 12/2/09


JackB:

I've answered your question.

A more definite answer:

Yes, I keep the 10 commandments daily without breaking them, even least commandments, is this impossible for some?

Did Christ die in vain for you?

By grace through my faith in Christ in the powers of the works of His death on the cross.

Because I'm not able to fulfill the Law on my own. His righteousness is imputed to me for that which I'm not able to complete perfectly. This way I do fulfill the Law by His righteousness imputed to me, with my faith in the power of His shed blood and the works of His death on the cross.

By the way I don't have long beard/locks this is not of Torah.
---Paul9594 on 12/2/09


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Paul, do you have an answer to my question, sir?
---JackB on 12/1/09


Yes, by grace through faith, I do keep the 10 commandments with faith in Christ and the powers of the works of His death on the cross.

I also walk after the least of His commandments, with faith in Him.

His righteousness is imputed to me for that which I'm not able to complete perfectly.

This way even though I'm not able to fulfill the Law on my own. I do fufill the Law because His righteousness imputed to me, by my faith in the power of His shed blood and the works of His death on the cross.

Or should I have a powerless faith as taugth to many?

By the way I don't have a long beard/locks this is not of Torah.
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


Abraham OUR example, just a faith man?

Genesis 18:19 - I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment, that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Isaac blessed:

Genesis 26:5 - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Commandments, statutes and laws even in those days.. long before there was ever a Israelite, or a Jew! Who TEACHES His Law/Torah is Jewish?

Abraham who received the promise by faith was also after keeping commandments, laws, statutes!

Have the Grace age, been told the full story of Abrahams faith AND obedience?
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


Ok Paul.

DO you follow the 10 commandments daily without breaking them?
---JackB on 12/1/09


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Thats funny Paul . I havent read one time where it says that Jesus fills in the gaps of our imperfections. My Bible says I have already blown it and God made me perfect when He died on the cross for me.

Heb 10:10-14
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God,
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
---JackB on 12/1/09


Abraham OUR example, just a faith man?

Genesis 18:19 - I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment, that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Isaac blessed:

Genesis 26:5 - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Commandments, statutes and laws even in those days.. long before there was ever a Israelite, or a Jew! Who TEACHES His Law/Torah is Jewish?

Abraham who received the promise by faith was also after keeping commandments, laws, statutes!

Have the Grace age, been told the full story of Abrahams faith AND obedience?
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


Paul the Apostle 30 yrs INTO THE CHURCH AGE! Asks Christians Roman CONVERTS.

Romans 3:31

Do we then make law VOID through the
FAITH?

Be it not so: nay, we ESTABLISH law.

Have we been taught a powerless faith that cannot establish the spiritual intent of the Law by faith?

With the powerful Holy Spirit and the power of the Works of His Cross?
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


Christ CONDEMNED Pharisees doctrines, traditions.

Is the GRACE AGE, doing the same as the Pharisees?

Christ lip's regarding Pharisees:

Matthew 23:3
...all things therefore whatever they tell you, do and keep: but do not after their :works, for they say, AND DO NOT.


Grace age, agrees Ten Commandments should not broken.

Umm adultery in the church is as in the world.

Let's break Sabbath commandment we are spiritual.

Commandment means optional. Break more.

Let's be the likeness of a lawless Christ, and not the One with the mindset and manners of The Torah.

Do not eat pig, well, this is optional.

Is It any wonder that judgment begins in the House of God? 1 Peter 2:17
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


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Obedience is the fruit of the Spirit, it is not?

Obey the laws of love, walking after them believing in the power of the Holy Spirit to help you do them.

Or else hear Matthew 7:21-23

MANY,MANY will say to me in that :day, Lord,
Lord, did we not prophesy in thy :name, and in thy :name cast out demons, and in thy :name do many MIGHTY works?

(WOMAN PASTORING, DISTRIBUTING BIBLES, GOSPEL TRACKS, CHOIR MEMBERSHIP ETC)

23 And then will I profess to them

I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work :LAWLESSNESS.


With faith in works of the Cross, His rightousness obedience of this ONE MAN is imputed for your shortcomings, WHILE YOU ARE walking after keeping the commandments beginning with 10!
---Paul9594 on 12/1/09


Likewise, AlwaysOn :)
---JackB on 12/1/09


Stevenq.. Of course there is only 1 gospel.

Problem is Christianity has let in another gospel and it is widely accepted by those who are unable to humble themselves before a Holy God and admit they are filthy dirty sinners who can NEVER gain His favor. Their pride simply wont allow them to accept a free gift and theyll instead spend their entire Christian lives trying to earn it. This is NOT grace. (Romans 11:6)

They constantly try to assure themselves of their salvation by pointing out the faults of other brothers in Christ while lifting themselves up for their "obedience to Gods law".

I call them Pharistians (part Pharisee ,part Christian).
---JackB on 12/1/09


Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


The law wasnt given to help us earn Gods approval. It was given to show us our guilt before a Holy God.
---JackB on 12/1/09


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JackB, you have such a kind heart and your concern is worthwhile. I also pray that people will realize the power of His grace and submit to living for Him. In so doing, this means not committing adultery, not killing, lying or stealing, not worshipping any god, but God, not using His name in vain, honoring our parents, etc. This lifestyle He has given us is good, and it is filled with love for Him and each other. I believe that we agree more than we disagree and I've enjoyed our discussion. :)
---AlwaysOn on 12/1/09


JackB: "We are not under the law but under grace."

Grace is not only a christian/New Testment thing. It is also known throughout the Old Testament. God has shown grace to all his people thoughout all of the bible.

There is only one Lord, one faith, one gospel (not two as you claim). What gospel did Jesus teach? It was the gospel of the Kingdom of God and, of course, he also showed us how to get there.

We are still under God's law: the two commandments Jesus spoke of which is short for the ten commandments which is short for the 613 ordanances. The main theme throughout all of scripture, all of the laws, all of the ordanances is LOVE.
---Steveng on 11/30/09


Dear friend, just as it happened during Pharisees, and the Catholic reign, with Gods people mind being ruled by bad doctrine, so it has happened today.

Leaders either meaning well or knowingly rule Gods people mind with in part bad doctrine, even in our day!

Is anything new under the sun?
Eccl 3:15
That which IS hath been long ago,
and that which IS TO BE hath long ago BEEN: and GOD SEEKETH again that which is PASSED away.

Good news, its ULTIMATELY impossible for theVERY elect to be deceived.

Are you of the very elect?

To be plucked out of false teachings ruling Gods people minds in our generation?

Then be obedient to the words of Christ do not contradict to His teachings.
---Paul9594 on 11/30/09


Obeying God's commandments and loving everyone and showing your love towards everyone will get you to heaven. Doing always God's will and not our own. Trusting in Him and not worrying about anything.
---Mrs_Michael on 11/30/09


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My concern is people are still weary of the curse of the law and the Bible makes it very clear that Jesus Christ removed that curse from us.

We are not under the law but under grace.

There is no "sin" where there is no law. So how can Jesus label a man as a worker of lawlessness? Because the man never had his curse removed by faith in CHrist. He is still trying to find favor with God by lawfullness and works.

We are ALL workers of iniquity. Every single day we all break 1 of Gods laws guaranteed. It is not imputed to us however. We are bought with the blood of Christ. Purchased. Its done. Thats why we are encouraged to now live for Jesus, because He has set us free.
---JackB on 11/30/09


All of our righteousness are but filthy rags.
The only man that was ever acceptable to God was Jesus Christ. He NEVER sinned and was not cursed by the law.

There are 2 gospels in Christianity now.

1. We are forgiven for all sin past,present, future and are assured a place with God based on what Christ has done. These people serve God out of love

2. We are only forgiven of past sin, and Jesus helps us to save ourselves by giving us power to follow Gods laws. These people serve God out of fear of condemnation.

Which has more scripture to back it up? Which does the Bible say comes from God? Fear or love?
---JackB on 11/30/09


JackB, that interpretation could be correct, which is why I stated "both". Faith without works is as dead as works without faith. Let's remember, though, Master will reject them as workers of iniquity (lawbreakers).

The law isn't a way of salvation and never was. Instead, it is a lifestyle prescribed by the Most High and the same lifestyle Messiah lived daily. When not adhered to, we sin. When adhered to, we do His will. Messiah's grace saves from the death penalty of breaking the law. Without Him we're doomed, because we can't keep the law perfectly. This is why His salvation is crucial...we can't do it ourselves! Though we are saved from its penalty, doesn't mean living His lifestyle (His law) is no longer required.
---AlwaysOn on 11/30/09


Alwayson, theres another interpretation of those verses.

Those men claiming their good works and ability to cast out demons in Jesus name could have been counting on the good things they did to earn eternal life instead of counting on the death burial and resurrection of Jesus CHrist which makes them perfect forever according to Hebrews 10.

Wouldnt it be a travesty for most of the Christian world to miss eternal life because they put too much emphasis on how they lived as Christians rather than how Christ made them perfect in Gods eyes with his own blood?

One way is living by faith, the other is living by the law and works. The Bible makes it clear that neither the law nor works are of FAITH
---JackB on 11/30/09


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"If our sins kept us out of heaven no one could go because all are guilty of sin!!
---mima on 11/29/09

Jas 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
---jerry6593 on 11/30/09


"Your works will not get you into heaven, but your sins will keep you out.
---jerry6593 on 11/29/09


This statement appeares to be wrong. The only thing that can prevent you from entering heaven if your failure to accept the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!

If our sins kept us out of heaven no one could go because all are guilty of sin!!
---mima on 11/29/09


Heaven is indeed an unmerited gift to those who love God. But those who love Him will do their best to obey Him.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Your works will not get you into heaven, but your sins will keep you out.
---jerry6593 on 11/29/09


Obedience of one man Jesus Christ.

Here's something AWESOME!!2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

What it means to live BY THE FAITH OF THE Son of God.

Just as Christ was totally surrendered to the will of the Father, becoming OBEDIENT unto death of a cross,we too live by that same OBEDIENCE Jesus lived, keeping that mind in us also. This is the FAITH Jesus AUTHORED and Finished in US..His Body the Church! OT Saints put their faith in the Comming Messiah, but did not live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD!!
---kathr4453 on 11/28/09


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Law defines sin. Romans 7:7 "I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

Romans 4:15 "where no law is, there is no transgression"

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Messiah said He'll tell some calling Him Lord and doing works in His name to scram because they're law breakers (Matthew 7:21-23). Vs 23 "depart from me, ye that work iniquity." In Strong's, iniquity means being without law due to ignorance or (willful) violation, or having contempt for the law.

Messiah plans to reject lawbreakers even those proclaiming Him master of their lives.
---AlwaysOn on 11/28/09


some say we cannot be saved by the law..which law is this...we cannot be saved by the ceremonial laws cos its done away at the cross..the moral laws the ten c's still stands and yes, we are to be obedient to it..yet, some say its done away..then can I shoot anyone I want? why is sin still around if laws are obsolete???
---rox on 11/28/09


JackB, yes, He saved me and, no, He is not just helping me save myself.

Again, I believe that I am to do as He says in Matthew 7 (i.e. hear AND do). He also states, in John 14:21-24, that those that have His commandments and keep them...those that keep His words...are the ones that truly love Him and that He and the Father also love. I love Him and trust Him and I have no reason to not believe and DO His teachings.

His sacrifice for my salvation does not give me carte blanche to sin while expecting to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I was freely given the gift of forgiveness, yet He taught me to never stop striving to live righteously.
---AlwaysOn on 11/28/09


It is God's love that gets you into Heaven
L-Learn
O-Obey
V-Value
E-ENCOURAGE
If you Love me Obey my Comandments.
---TIMOTHY_MCA on 11/28/09


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Rhonda ... I'm with you, and James, who said faith without works is dead.

I am bemused by those who say that once you are saved you don't need to act in the way Christ taught.

Do they forget that He told us there will be those who have fed the hungry, clothed the naked, who will be welcomed in heaven, and those who expecting entry will be rejected because they have not done so.

How can you be saved, and yet not do as Christ taught, how can you be saved and yet wilfully continue in sin. That's not being saved, it is only the pretence and illusion of being "saved"
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/28/09


---JackB on 11/27/09 has many good thing to say in his answers to this question.
---mima on 11/28/09


it almost appears that many believe if they are converted and then disobey Gods Law say by lying Christ will forgive and continue to forgive ...so their obedience is in their eyes unnecessary ...if they keep lying disobeying Christ they are forgiven through him and "love"

indirectly these christian sects belief of license to continue to live in sin because Christ covers it all even if when they willfully continue to disobey making difference between "christian" and sinner simply saying the name of Christ without any responsibility ...TRULY REJECTING all the dozens of verses in NT as fluff where Christ and Apostles speak of obeying

those who HATE and are AGAINST God are not subject to his Laws Romans 8:7
---Rhonda on 11/27/09


So Jesus didnt save you, AlwaysOn?

Or is He just helping you to save yourself?
---JackB on 11/27/09


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Both. Messiah said there will be many proclaiming Him master of their lives who will do wonderful works in His name, including casting out devils and prophesying. Yet, he will shun them because of their violation of the law (either due to their contempt for it or because they are ignorant of it. I'm paraphrasing Matthew 7:21-27 and using Strong's G458 definition for an understanding of what Messiah meant when He spoke of "iniquity" in vs 23). He specifically states that it is not merely those who proclaim him as Lord and do good works in His name who will make it into heaven, rather it is those who DO the will of His Father. I believe, therefore, I must hear Messiah's teachings AND that I must DO them. It is a straight and narrow gate.
---AlwaysOn on 11/27/09


The Bible makes it clear without any doubt that we are NOT under the law and the very righteousness of CHrist is "imputed" to us.

So how then can a man claim that he is going to Heaven based on his obedience to Gods law and good works.

I mean besides a chapter of James that you works/law people stick to, doesnt the other 90% of the New Testament make you worry a little bit that it teaches the exact opposite?

Why is there still confusion on this subject after you read Romans chapter 4 and how it in great detail describes HOW Abraham was and how we STILL are justified and have peace with God?
---JackB on 11/27/09


Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Doesnt it say numerous times throughout the Bible thats its Gods GRACE that saves us?

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
---JackB on 11/27/09


Please for the sake of your own souls, STOP tryin to take the glory of your salvation away from Jesus Christ. It is HIS salvation. He deserves ALL the praise. Nothing we do as Christians justifies our sin except the blood of Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:10-12
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
---JackB on 11/27/09


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I like this statement made by---Josef

"My dependency rest solely upon love, grace, and mercy of the Father. Demonstrated in its fulness by obedience of The Christ,
---mima on 11/26/09


My dependency rest solely upon love, grace, and mercy of the Father. Demonstrated in its fulness by obedience of The Christ, which has for man enabled the Love of Christ through the indwelling presence of Christ, as the burden removing, yoke destroying power of God. All praises and glory are due the Father who has blessed, ransomed, and empowered the believer through the bodily presence, sacrifice and authority of Jesus. "And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:" Eph. 2:6
---Josef on 11/26/09


The two greatest commandments is to love God and love your neighbor.

It is love alone that will get you into heaven. Love comes by faith, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. And what is not of love is of sin.

Having faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing. Our faith in God through Jesus is rooted and grounded in love.
---Steveng on 11/25/09


I am relying on the obedience of Christ!

Ro5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Once we've been born again, it is then time for us to do good works. Our good works don't get us to heaven. We should do good works as our reasonable service unto God for all he has done for us.

Tit3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
Tit3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour,
---trey on 11/25/09


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Well, mima . . . I certainly can not depend on my own self and how I can get myself to obey God. I need how God makes me submissive to Him. I must obey, in order to spend eternity with Jesus, though, I understand . . . but this means how God has me obeying > so that I obey how He wants me to be holy > without holiness "no one will see the Lord," we have in Hebrews 12:14 > this including, "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) So, I can see I have Biblical reason to have "boldness in the day of judgment". . .*if* His love is making me "as He is"
"in this world".
---Bill_bila5659 on 11/25/09


obey the word of god has very broad topic. pastors would tell you to obey like
self denial
run another mile for your brethren
give your tithe
do not be worldly
but HOW are these issues going to apply to the real world. we still have to function in this planet called earth.
sometimes you need reason in christianity to function correctly & not be 'religious' in the name of faith.
---jim on 11/25/09


Mima, Regardless of who it may sound like ,it is "scriptural"
That all good people go to heaven is a Catholic idea,are you Catholic?
Mormons believe you go to heaven when you die are you a LDS??
Muslims believe if you blow yourself up and kill a lot of "Infidels" you will go to heaven and get 72 virgins as a reward! (or is that one 72 year old virgin??? I don't know for sure)
Every pagan religion that ever was has some sort of "Shangri La" in the sky where dead people are still alive!
---1st_cliff on 11/25/09


---1st_cliff you sound very much like the Jehovah witness. Many times on the street I get a similar type answer.

---Cluny the acidity of your comments expose your position.

Would Jesus driving the money changers of the temple be considered an orderly occurrence?

Would the fellow temple goers trying to kill Jesus be considered a peaceful ceremonial service?

The question was offered to get other people's opinion.
---mima on 11/25/09


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Are you asking for information, mima, or are you asking rhetorical and leading questions with answers you already want?
---Cluny on 11/25/09


Actually Mima: Christ chooses who will go to heaven (to rule with Him as Kings and Priests) The balance of faithful Christians and Saints will live here on a "paradise" (Eden restored) earth!
This is our "home" not heaven!God created it for this purpose.
There's no other place I'd rather be!
"For God so loved (past tense, Eden and mandate) the WORLD" that He gave His only begotten Son... what else do you think He meant???
---1st_cliff on 11/24/09


The One Man already completed his mission and overcame, now we must take up our own cross and follow after the One Man and overcome also, else we are disobedient to the One Man and we be condemned and come short of the glory of God.
---Eloy on 11/24/09


Mima, yes. Obedience is better than sacrafice. Jesus is THEE man!
---larry on 11/24/09


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There is only one way and it is the one Man, the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Linda on 11/24/09


For myself, my answer to this question is written in Galatians 2:15-21.
---Rob on 11/24/09


Ultimately, I am depending upon Jesus Christ and my faith in Him to get me to heaven. However, because I love Him, I want to please Him so I stay open to the prompting of His Spirit. Yes, I try to obey God even though I am not always successful. The only thing that anyone can do to get to heaven is to believe in Jesus.
---jody on 11/24/09


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