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Who Invented Evolution

God invented Creationism. Who invented Evolution?

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 ---jerry6593 on 11/25/09
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"That idea I believe devalues the Bible by forcing old beliefs to continue in the light of new discoveries and ideas."
---atheist on 12/4/09

What if the "new discoveries" are frauds? Can you say "Piltdown Man?"
---jerry6593 on 12/5/09


Trav, you were going well, then I was away for a few days, and you write 'There was no WORLD WIDE Flood. Scripture does not support this.' Wrong, the OT and NT support only a worldwide flood. You would have us believe it flowed over all the mountains but stopped somewhere! I can just picture it stopped in mid-air above the mountains, just like in the cartoons.

No matter what you write you cannot supply any Scriptural support for a local flood. And you a man who claims to respect Scripture!
---Warwick on 12/5/09


Atheist you propose ideas for which you cannot provide evidence, let alone proof. Can you tell us how the specific complexity of genetic information arose?

Specific complexity? Genetic information is not only complex, (way beyond mans creative abilities) but also specific. Each molecule has a specific pre-programmed job to do. Otherwise it is pointless complexity.

Enlighten us: how did this specific, complex information arise without a designer?
---Warwick on 12/5/09


Atheist: "Why bother?" I thought so. You can't produce even a tiny piece of the mountain of scientific evidence you claim exists. Why? Because although you "believe" it exists through blind faith, you are unwilling to investigate the possibility that your god of Random Chance and his prophet Darwin could be wrong. C'mon, now, you can at least postulate a simple datum in less than 125 words. Don't be such a coward. Put up or .....
---jerry6593 on 12/5/09


The devil created evolution. The devil has the people who do not believe in GOD right where he wants them, spewing his lies. They are so far removed that they don't stop to really think about evolution. WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS? Perhaps Darwin will interceed for them at Judgement. If you want to stake your salvation on a man, you will definitely get what you want in the END, a loooooooooooong time with your pal Darwin.............
---corey on 12/4/09




Athiest ... "Although, I do not believe in 'god' I do not denigrate people who do" That, Atheist, is one of the reasons that I respect you, even though we disagree about God.

Truly, the world is a wonderful place, and grows more wondrous all t6he time, as we discover more about it.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/4/09


That idea I believe devalues the Bible by forcing old beliefs to continue in the light of new discoveries and ideas.
---atheist on 12/4/09

True. Old beliefs vs truths. Now, we still are both outside the consortium here atheist. I believe it will be shown that a first creation did exist before Adam. We can (almost) accurately date 8,000 years. When/if positively proved it will remove some shadow.
There was no WORLD WIDE Flood. Scripture does not support this. Doctrine does. Logic alone shows problems in Ark capacity's etc. Oh, there was a flood....killing all Adams generations except Noah's.
Why mention these? No conflicts when deep research is done in scripture. Evolution...still a theory with huge conflicts.
---Trav on 12/4/09


Alan,

Although, I do not believe in 'god' I do not denigrate people who do. I understand that you take comfort in your belief.

I also notice that you are not locked into th idea that the Bibe is the literal word of god. That idea I believe devalues the Bible by forcing old beliefs to continue in the light of new discoveries and ideas.

There's a book, "The Greatest Show on Earth" that I recommend to you. After looking at it, I do not expect you to not believe, but I know that you will find the wonderment of life even more incredible. I hope you take a look.
---atheist on 12/4/09


Jerry,

Why bother? There is nothing I can put forth in 125 words to convince someone that believes his imaginary friend 'spoke' 'creation' into existence. Just as there is nothing in the billions of words written that describe the evidence for the evolutionary process.

You believe what you believe. Anything written or said or the result of prediction or any other form of scientific study and examination is trumped by you completely untestable 'theory' that 'god' spoke it all into existence.

When did you go to college? Had they invented ball point pens back then?
---atheist on 12/4/09


You believe that the Bible is the literal word of 'god'.
Your belief is so fragile that you have absolute fear of anything that might contradict that belief. Your god. Only your god. No one else's god. Your god.

150 years has provided evidence for the components of evolution as listed. You know it.
---atheist on 12/3/09

You didn't include me? You were partially correct not too. Is no other GOD than Israels (all of).
I fear no contradiction. Find one! None in scripture once GODs two witnesses are found.
None...when we expose man tainted interpretation of certain words and doctrines.
150 years has proved there are no evo-transition forms.
---Trav on 12/4/09




Thanks, Atheist. I knew that I had never used such language. But as for your statement:

"150 years has provided evidence for the components of evolution as listed. You know it."

No, I don't! I once believed it because I was taught it in the University I attended. But when, in later years, I began to dig into the science that I was told supported the theory, I discovered that it was founded on nothing but conjecture and fraud. If this great body of evidence for the past 150+ years exists, surely you should be able to produce and defend a small piece of it. Or are you just a faithful follower, loudly shouting "the king has on clothes."
---jerry6593 on 12/4/09


atheist: "As far as biology, men have "prostrate problems"---"

I haven't noticed crowds of men laying face down on the ground.
---jerry6593 on 12/4/09


Jeryy and Larry ... sorry to have got you mixed up!

Atheist ... I welcome the clarity and honesty of yuor arguments here ... even though they are wrong!
---alan8566 on 12/4/09


Alan,

Actually it was Larry who made that accusation.

But you are right, I am not calling god a liar,---I can't, I don't believe he exists.
---atheist on 12/3/09


Jerry ..As you know I beleive that God Created. That is part of my firm faith, although I think that Genesis is not a minute by minute literal account of Creation. (There's no point in us debating that, since we have done that for so long already!!)

But I have to say that your accusation .. "You have chosen to believe Satan over God, its really that simple. You are calling God a liar through unbelief" can't be valid, since Atheiest has done neither of those things

He believes both Satan and God are non-existent. And you can't believe a non-existent person, nor call one a liar.

The most we can with honesty say to Athiest is we beleive that Satan has persuaded him not to believe in either God or Satan
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/3/09


Jerry and Warwick,

You believe what you believe.

You believe that the Bible is the literal word of 'god'. Your belief is so fragile that you have absolute fear of anything that might contradict that belief.

The evidence is there. You both are like Holocaust deniers. No amount of evidence or reason will change your mind. The Holocaust didn't happen and neither did evolution. Your god created everything by speaking. Your god. Only your god. No one else's god. Your god.

Your belief is your belief, and it is no different that some American Indian belief that the earth was made by the hands of a god out of mud.

150 years has provided evidence for the components of evolution as listed. You know it.
---atheist on 12/3/09


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atheist: "It's a matter of these components of evolution...

gradual genetic change over many generations time, speciation, common ancestry of different species, and the mechanism of natural selection, ... yada, yada, yada.

No "intelligent designer" was necessary..."

What you have stated is nothing but conjecture. Do you have any scientific evidence to substantiate your claims. Why have 150+ years of massive scientific experimention failed to confirm any of this conjecture?

All intelligent people realize that an "intelligent designer" is necessary to produce a working design!
---jerry6593 on 12/3/09


Atheist,
Is it true then the newspaper ,as you refer to it, is your source of recognizing intelligent discoveries or lack thereof?
If a newspaper is viewed as factual then all peoples who believe in God are equally credible.Your reply is an assumption.
Prove that no intelligent source is necessary.
---earl on 12/2/09


Read the newspaper for current events. It certainly doesn't appear that anything that is happening is the result of "intelligent" planning.---atheist on 12/2/09

Ah, but you are looking on the surface. You have not seen below yet...or above. A much finer, grand beyond your comprehension design is being played out. Minutes/days/hours, before you die..you've nothing to lose....ask GOD to give you just a glimpse.

You are looking at men/governments who have intelligence but, it is overruled by passions of the body.
This wasn't always so. Adam man had a different deal. He also chose/done as his weaker (made of his body) tempted and lost a perfect situation. The aftermath of loss and to regain is what you're seeing.
---Trav on 12/2/09


Larry,

I am calling 'god' a liar through disbelief?

Really now. So I must believe exactly as you do?

Does this same thinking apply to everyone else in the world who does not believe as you do?

Are Jews, and Muslims, and Buddhists all liars?

You do live in a peculiar world...
---atheist on 12/2/09


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Atheist, the bone structure of the creature has no connection to the veracity or authenticity of the creator.
You have chosen to believe Satan over God, its really that simple. You are calling God a liar through unbelief.

Its not about proof its about pride.

I will give you this, being an atheist is easier because creation built on chance is creation without purpose. Christ is out of Christ-mas and you can enjoy your Thanksgiving without being thankful for anything.
---larry on 12/2/09


Earl,

Read the newspaper for current events. It certainly doesn't appear that anything that is happening is the result of "intelligent" planning.

As far as biology, men have "prostrate problems"---if that isn't an example of non-intelligent design, I don't know what is...
---atheist on 12/2/09


Atheist wrote,"no intelligent designer necessary."
Can you support that statement?Where is your proof an intelligent designer is not functioning in the affairs of this world?
---earl on 12/2/09


Warwick,

Birds descended from a common ancestor which have feathers. Mammals descended from a common ancestor which didn't have feathers, but shared a similar bone structure.

It's a matter of these components of evolution...

gradual genetic change over many generations time, speciation, common ancestry of different species, and the mechanism of natural selection, whereby different combinations of genes are reproduced more successfully than others as a result of the different abilities of individual organisms to survive.

No "intelligent designer" was necessary...
---atheist on 12/2/09


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Atheist you wrote "There is a greater similarity between the bone structure of bats and humans, horses and humans, and all mammals in humans---only the size of the bones changes." This is consistent with them having a common designer.

I wrote "If all creatures had feathers the claim could be made that this was because of common descent. But they don't, which is evidence not of common descent but of common design."

You have avoided commenting upon this. You usually avoid anything which contradicts your opinion.
---Warwick on 12/2/09


Warwick ... I'm sorry ... I must have misunderstoof yuo when you said

"The T/E'ist attempts to 'sanitize' evolution by proposing God did it! Evolution, at its very core is not at all Christian, but atheistic".

Are you also challenging the other example?

---alan8566_of_uk on 12/2/09


Warwick: "There is also similarity in the bone structure of bats and birds. "

There is a greater similarity between the bone structure of bats and humans, horses and humans, and all mammals in humans---only the size of the bones changes...
---atheist on 12/1/09


Alan I do not believe Theistic Evolution is atheistic. I cannot see how you got that idea.

The evolutionary hypothesis is, by its definition, an atheistic system which attempts to explain how all there is, came about by naturalistic, not supernatural causes. No need for God. The T/E's have taken this atheistic belief agreeing that it happened over the billions of years, as evolutionists believe, but that God was the originating 'spark', and that He guided it.

This idea does not fit either with the evolutionary hypothesis, or the Bible.

This is why I say it is an oxymoron as it is supernatural naturalism! A contradiction in terms.
---Warwick on 12/1/09


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Atheist, the 747 was designed using unique parts, and parts shared with other aeroplanes. Cart wheels! Ho Ho Ho-must be Christmas. Porsche and VW beetle (both designed by Dr Porsche) both had rear mounted 4 cylinder horizontally opposed air cooled alloy push-rod motors which we know came from common design. They also had some commonality because of the one creator.
If all creatures had feathers the claim could be made that this was because of common descent. But they don't, which is evidence not of common descent but of common design.

God has used commonality. For 1 example all vertebrates have very similar eyes. There is also similarity in the bone structure of bats and birds.
---Warwick on 12/1/09


The commonality of the parts of animals can be traced by their ancestory, not their purpose.
---atheist on 12/1/09

Kind of like the Platypus....I see where you're going.

Or perhaps the transitional monkeys.

I do understand what you mean on the borrowing of technology as it advances. But, their is intelligence behind even the simple wheel.

You avoided the "eye" for a moment....what about it. I'll think on yours.
---Trav on 12/1/09


Warwick ... An example is yuor determination to define what the "Theistic Evolutionist" beleives. And you assertion that T/E is atheistic. Tell that to the Theist!!

But you're not alone in this. There is one who tells when I say that God is Sovereign, that I am denying His Soverignty.

Sorry both of you, but those who believe things actually do know that they beleive them, and not something else.

Can you accept that your "racer" is just a souped up mini?

How can it be when a Thesit beleives it?
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/1/09


If you look at a 747 you'll find that it has wheels, borrowed from an oxcart? Pnuematic tires, borrow from my car? Something like a steering wheel,borrowed from my car, or part of a gate valve at a mill? A turbine, borrowed from a electrical power plant and made by General Electric? Rivets, insulated wires, pulleys, cables, switches, air ducts, pressure resistent windows, from submarines?

An intelligent designer would reuse parts and systems for simlilar purposes, and so we would expect to find flying mammals with feathers, or birds with no feathers but extended flaps of skin like bats.

But we don't. The commonality of the parts of animals can be traced by their ancestory, not their purpose.
---atheist on 12/1/09


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Here is my theory on evolution, I think you will like it...lol.

In the beginning GOD.

That's it...GOD was in the beginning, and in the beginning GOD, not monkey's, not animals, but GOD existed and HE created everthing.

He created man in His image and likeness.

The buck stops with GOD! Amen Lord Jesus!
---Donna on 12/1/09


Alan I still do not understand your point. Can you please give me an example of what it is you say I have done, and explain?
---Warwick on 12/1/09


Trav,
The theory of evolution does not say that complete organisms spontaneous came together from various parts randomly by accident.
---atheist on 11/30/09

Atheist you are one of GOD's enigmas. A useful tool as well. It performs a task for the wielder. Pharoah, was such. You provide many the chance to test/prove/search/research/stand or be blown away.
The "Theory"..(above)is the foundation yours is built on. GODs is doc'd.
Before bat wings, educate us on eyeballs. What is your evolutionary, bib bang theory on Eyes? Did they just pop out one day. Did ur microbe first intellectually concieve eyes,then develop? Include the part where it has to mate with a like kind to achieve lineal unity.
---Trav on 12/1/09


Warwick: "Atheist your information regarding vestigal organs is out of date."

Indeed! So is atheism.
---jerry6593 on 12/1/09


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Thanks Larry. I just love travelling long-distance on 747's, especially up in the roomy front part. I have travelled a lot and have yet to experience the comfort, visual space and stability of the old Jumbo, in any other aircraft. May she fly forever. What is a dreamliner?

I respect the atheists head-on attack on God, believing Genesis creation cannot be true, simply because they believe there is no God. What concerns me are those Christians who claim to accept God as Creator but nonetheless attack the veracity of His creation record. Give me the honesty of the atheists any day, as compared to the half-truths of some who claim to be Christian. 'Let God be true, and every man a liar' Romans 3:4
---Warwick on 12/1/09


Warwick ...

1 I was referring to your propensity of applying your definitions onto what others beleive. You share this with many others here.

2 I was going to say to Atheist the same as you have said about bats & birds. But I was going to refer to reptiles and mammals both having four legs.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/1/09


Atheist you wrote "If bats were designed to fly, why not use feathers, that component worked for birds?"

So you imagine it is some counter-creation argument that God chose to give featherless creatures flight ability? This makes no sense.

Around where I live countless insects fly perfectly well without feathers. Some have greater flight ability than birds, with not a single feather to be seen!
---Warwick on 11/30/09


Atheist your information regarding vestigal organs is out of date. About 100yrs ago it was believed there were 100+ vestigal organs in the human body. Evolutionists reasoned that as they had no purpose (in reality no known purpose) they were left-overs of human evolution. Over the following decades it was found all but one had a current purpose, therefore their arguement is false. If I remember rightly the only remaining vestigal organ is the muscle which allows humans to wiggle their ears. Ph.D scientists Drs Jerry Bergman and George Howe coauthored a book 'Vestigal Organs Are Fully Functional', in 1990. Read it and you will see your information is well out of date.
---Warwick on 11/30/09


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Trav, Warwick...good to read you always even if I would prefer a Dreamliner over the 747.

Anyway any attempt to prove that God is not who he really is (the creator) is from the enemy and accuser i.e. Belzebub.
---larry on 11/30/09


Alan you wrote "Warwick ... You say your car is a true racer. You are wrong, it is just a souped-up Mini."

What??????
---Warwick on 11/30/09


Atheist, on the contrary Trav has made an excellent point.

As mathematician Sir Fred Hoyle (who believes in evolution) wrote " A junkyard contains all the bits and pieces of a Boeing 747, dismembered and in disarray. A whirlwind happens to blow through the yard. What is the chance that after its passage a fully assembled 747, ready to fly, will be found standing there? So small as to be negligible, even if a tornado were to blow through enough junkyards to fill the whole Universe." (Hoyle, F., "The Intelligent Universe,"

Evolutionists do propose that the greater complexity of life came about when dead chemicals were accidentally arranged into living beings. Preposterous! Go Trav!
---Warwick on 11/30/09


Warwick ... You say your car is a true racer. You are wrong, it is just a souped-up Mini.

---alan8566_of_uk on 11/30/09


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Trav,

No matter how many variations of the blind watchmaker, or potter's argument you come up with, it still proves nothing.

The theory of evolution does not say that complete organisms spontaneous came together from various parts randomly by accident.

Besides, if intelligent design is at work, why do we have vestigial tails, appendixes, etc?

If bats were designed to fly, why not use feathers, that component worked for birds?
---atheist on 11/30/09


Trav,

Well, first I'd figured out whether my yard got really big, or why 747's are so small.

Then I would call for help, because I would know I had had a psychotic break.

Exactly, what is your point with this anyway?
---atheist on 11/28/09

Interesting.
Point is this for you:
1. You would limit your perimeter of blessings by thinking of size of yard first. For you it is a Toy's r us, Transformer. (Even this took intelligence to create).

2. Try this, stand or get a bigger yard so you can imagine the event, then call for help. You need it and don't realize it yet.
---Trav on 11/30/09


A) Satan? B) Rebellious men? C) All of the above?
1Samuel 15:23, Psalm 107:11-12, Isaiah 1:4-6, 65:2, Daniel 9:5, John 8:42-47.
---Glenn on 11/29/09


Alan, Dawkins et al say evolution needs no God input. They are correct and correct in saying it is difficult to believe in God if you understand evolution.

The evolutionary idea is ancient, and began with atheists, not Christians, didn't it?

The T/E'ist attempts to 'sanitize' evolution by proposing God did it! Evolution, at its very core is not at all Christian, but atheistic.

T/E's must accept the fossil record shows evolution over time. It shows death, disease, suffering, and mistakes occurring over the imagined billions of years. Where is there evidence of the Biblical God in this?

T/E also destroys the foundation of the gospel. And is contrary to what Jesus and His apostles taught about origins.
---Warwick on 11/29/09


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Alan Theistic Evolution (T/E) is an oxymoron. The evolutionary hypothesis was developed as an alternative view of origins. It needs no input from any God or god.

T/E came about when Christians accepted microbe-to-man-evolution (as opposed to speciation) as fact, which it isn't. To maintain academic respectability T/E's proposed the idea that God directed the evolutionary process over vast periods of time. This is plainly contrary to God's word and the evolutionary hypothesis.

We can of course hypothesize about guided development but Scripture gives no support for this, just the opposite.
---Warwick on 11/29/09


Warwick ... you say "The evolutionary hypothesis has no need of God and Almighty God has no need of evolution"

That's you talking about the athiestic definition of evolution that you have accepted, and insist we use ... which involves random development of life forms. (my non-scientific definition)

It insults the "Theistic-Evolutionist" to suggest he accepts that definition. He would talk about (again my terms) planned, or guided development of life forms and Intelligent Design.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/29/09


Those who cannot see Trav's point just don't want to. His point is so obvious it needs no further explanation.

He was replying to Laurabee "What if everything is a huge cooincidence?"

He used the analogy of a Boeing 747 which is obviously the result of intelligent design. No coincidence, or naturalistic evolution involved. Nonetheless the 747 is far less complicated than a simple bacteria which evolutionsists claim came into being without intelligent design.

He wrote "I mean what if....we got out of bed and there was a Boeing 747 sitting in your yard. Magnificent. .....A coincidence. Nothing created it except the atoms and molecules aligning just at the right moment."
---Warwick on 11/28/09


Warwick ... I am not a Dawkinist.

But you seem to accept what he says.

Strange
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/29/09


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Alan, many times I have asked Theistic-Evolutionists to show where Scripture supports their idea-they have had nothing to offer. Mostly they have uncritically accepted long-ages/evolution as fact, then reinterpreted Scripture through these 'glasses.'

The evolutionary hypothesis has no need of God and Almighty God has no need of evolution.

"Many atheists, in the fight to keep creationism out of schools, decide its best to say that believing in God and evolution isnt incompatible. But I'm a boat-rocker-I make the case that Its difficult to believe in God if you understand evolution." Richard Dawkins Beyond Belief Radio Times, 7-13 January, 2006, p. 27.
---Warwick on 11/28/09


Trav,

Well, first I'd figured out whether my yard got really big, or why 747's are so small.

Then I would call for help, because I would know I had had a psychotic break.

Exactly, what is your point with this anyway?
---atheist on 11/28/09


Trav, as usual,your analogies make no sense.
---NurseRobert on 11/27/09

Well, I guess I can get a coloring book and crayola you a little picture. The point was a 747 cannot be a coincidence. It took a creator, to concieve, design and many to build.
The world and all it's creations are not a coincidence, the human eye is not a coincidence. You not being able to see is not a coincidence. It is designed or choice.
Psalm 22:23
Ye that fear the LORD, praise him, all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him, and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psalm 70:2
Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.
---Trav on 11/28/09


Alan: I think you had it right when you said that Satan is the inventor of evolutionism. I think that he is also the mind behind the grand evolution hoax - whether in its theistic or atheistic form. Evolution is nothing more than Satan's counterfeit for the creation of the Bible.

You wrote:

"Personally, I go for the first [Theistic Evolution], but get into a lot of trouble here for that!

The Bible clearly states that creation of heaven and earth took six days (Exo 20:11), and was instantaneous (Ps 33:6-9). Thus, any evolutionary paradigm is disconsonant with the Bible.
---jerry6593 on 11/28/09


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Warwick ... Yes, creation is the thing that God made ... the world, and everything in it.

But "Creation" is also (and I was using it in this way) is God's Act of making the world

As to "creationism" yes it is the opposite of "evolutionism" ... both are beliefs.

"Creation" and "evolution" are not beliefs but happenings. Thyat's not quite right because the Creationist will say evolution is not a happening, and the evolutionist will say that Creation was not a happening.

That's not right either because some creationists will accept (although will not) that evolution may be part of God's creation!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/27/09


God "invented" everything. Evolution is just one of God's wondrous ways. (No opinions unless you actually read Darwin's Origins. His observations and scientific data are stunning and, in many cases, conclusive.

His opinions, leaps to conclusions - premature
---bubba on 11/27/09


I mean what if....we got out of bed and there was a Boeing 747 sitting in your yard.
---Trav on 11/26/09

Trav, as usual,your analogies make no sense.
---NurseRobert on 11/27/09


athiest,my two barn owls tell me there are bats in your belfry,which is unusual because usually when I ask them a question they always wanna know just one thing,WHO WHO.In one sense of the word evolve we all do,change,even the earth evolves,it also revolves,disolves,am I having a brain skip?I had no isea you had a sense of humor,how refreshing.
---tom2 on 11/27/09


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Alan I have always thought of 'creation' (Biblically speaking) as meaning that which God made. Or 'the creation' He made, that in which we live. And 'creationism' being the belief that God did this. As the opposite of evolutionism.
---Warwick on 11/26/09


Jerry ... Re-reading my last, I misread the original question as "Who invented Evolutionism?"
To answer the question, "Who invented Evolution?" ..It is not a thing that could be invented. It either happened or it did not.

But Evolutionism (the belief in the E theory) definitely does exist .. that's why I answered as I did.

Creation and Creationism are different things. Creation is the actual Creation of the world and us by God .. so was not invented.

There are two Creationisms ..

One is the God-given (not invented) belief that God did it, the other is the belief that He did it in a particular way.

Personally, I go for the first, but get into a lot of trouble here for that!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/27/09


Jerry ... Your comments really just show that Creation and Creationism are not the same thing.

And to you original statement, that God invented creationism, I would suggest that He did not.

I would suggest that "creationism" did not exist before evolutionists challenged the fact that God is the Creator.

But when evolutionism was propogated, "creationism" had to be "invented" in order to counter the new incorrect theory.

Who invented evloutionism? ... I suppose it was those who produced the evolution theory. You may say Satan was behind this.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/26/09


Laurabee, we Christians did 'search for a higher power' and found the living God. In Scripture God says that in His eyes we are sinners, bound for hell. But He is not willing any should perish so came that we might be forgiven. 'The wages of sin is death,' He suffered death for us. He rose again offering His free gift that any who accept they are sinners and accept He paid the price for their sin, are forgiven.

Astounding! The Almighty Creator God would do this for us, who do not deserve it.

He is eternal but creation is not eternal. He tells us He spoke it all into being and it will not last forever, but the forgiven will!

This is the only reality-available to all. Taste and see.
---Warwick on 11/26/09


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Warwick,

I've consulted my pet bat on this one...

His reply, with a tone of ridicule, had something to do with what he called 'my blindness'.

He said that in complete darkness I was completely blind. But in light or darkness he could 'see' perfectly well. He explained not only was his hearing far more 'evolved' than mine, with the range (both volume and pitch) of sounds he could hear greater than mine, but the sophisitication in the neural circuitry in his brain, made my own quite 'primitive.'

He pointed out that with my limited ability to 'see' things that I was ill equip to discuss or even fully understand this thing I naively discribed as 'matter'.

He fell silent. I whacked him. He didn't see it coming.
---atheist on 11/26/09


disobedience.
---Eloy on 11/26/09


Alan: I don't mind a bit of pedantry. Would you fell better if I had written "God is the Author of Creationism. Who is the author of Evolution?" God wrote "For in six days the Lord made [created] heaven and earth..." Thus, He is the author of Creation, and without this new invention, there would be no acceptance of or belief in His Creation, viz, Creationism. Our beliefs as Christians have their origin in the Word of God, do they not?

Now, would you kindly address the question:

Who invented Evolution?
---jerry6593 on 11/26/09


man ,namely darwin,put forth the idea of a species evolving from lower life forms into more complex ones through ions of time as a natural process that occurs.Gods word says each to its own kind,and God tells all life to be fruitful and multiply.Mans ego,pride,in this world today being that the flesh is always against God, have taken life with all the scientific discoveries,and what we are capable of knowing ,and doing to a point where many no momger believe we need any God,that one day we will overcome death by our own intelligence.Personally the thought of living forever in this flesh would drive me crazy.can you imagine?Iam going to retire in 30 trillion years.
---tom2 on 11/26/09


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What if everything is a huge cooincidence? we've already proved that time can be bent proving that time is no constant. What if these ongoing wars of who's God is real is going to eventually prove useless. Just an idea.
---laurabee on 11/25/09

I mean what if....we got out of bed and there was a Boeing 747 sitting in your yard. Magnificent. It's yours, it's in your yard! A coincidence. Nothing created it except the atoms and molecules aligning just at the right moment. All the seats,engines, windshield, insulations, rivets in right holes, cables hydraulic fluids. Radar, instrumentation etc. Rubber wheels in the right number & location and full of fuel ready to fly you off. Could you fly it? Gonna take your family?
---Trav on 11/26/09


"God invented Creationism. Who invented Evolution?"

Both creationism and evolution are terms "created", as evolved from one's own thought or imagination, in the mind of the first man, or men, that choose to search his/their thoughts and/or imagination in an attempt to define them both.
Recognizing that the mind of man is simply a shadowed reflection of the mind of God, the definition of the terms, has therefore, to have originated via the mind of God. Whether directly inspired of His Divine mind, or the perversion of that mind as inspired of His opposer. After all it was the Father who place both the tree of life and the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden.
---Josef on 11/26/09


Now I understand that most of you are christians and all, but try this theory on for size. What if the world was never "created". By that I mean, what if there was never a begining and there will never be an end? What if the search for a higher power is useless because time is no constant, time simply is, life simply is, it simply is the consequence of random events happening in the solar system and on earth over time. What if everything is a huge cooincidence? we've already proved that time can be bent proving that time is no constant. What if these ongoing wars of who's God is real is going to eventually prove useless. Just an idea.
---laurabee on 11/25/09


Atheist, our God is eternal therefore has always existed. Therefore never invented, or created.

As you reject the supernatural you must believe that matter (the natural) is all that exists.

The question for you is: Is this matter eternal or did it create itself?

You may answer that matter is eternal. Then you are in no position to ridicule a believer in an eternal God, as both are faith positions

You may say matter created itself whereas it is a scientific dictum that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Yours is still a faith position.

You may say you don't know, and I would respect this. This still shows you have a position of faith.

So what is your answer?
---Warwick on 11/25/09


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Atheist, I have not spent much time with what certain creationists consider to be empirical evidence, etc. I'm prejudiced that God's ways are "past finding out," as Paul shares in Romans 11:33. And if God's ways are "past finding out", then His ways working in things and organisms of His creation would be "past finding out", meaning they can't be figured out. May be one example could be showing in how now (I've read) that "global warming" is not going the way that ones supposed they figured out the weather would go??? I'd say neither secular scientists nor creationists have figured out enough to "prove" or "disprove" God. I prefer enjoying.
---Bill_bila5659 on 11/25/09


Being a bit pedantic, I think the basic statement "God invented Creationism" is incorrect.

God Created ... He did not invent the idea of believing that God Created.

An author writes a book. He does not invent the desire of people to read the book.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/09


Atheist,It all depends on who you are whether you have an "invented god" or the real McCoy!
You know how to find a needle in a haystack??
You burn it down and sift the ashes!
Same principal applies to finding the "real" God!
---1st_cliff on 11/25/09


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