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Punishment For Abortions

What Punishment for Abortion----what is the proper punishment on earth, amoung the living, for abortion?

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 ---atheist on 11/30/09
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Jerry ...You now seem to say that even birds can behave for the benefit of their society. It's strange then to recall yuor initial statement implying that atheists cannot.

There is in London a wall filled with small plaques commemorating the bravery of many ordinary (train stokers, children, passers-by, tramps, ladies of the night) individuals, who sacrificed themeslves for the sake of others, not in wartime but in everyday danger situations. One was a boy who rescued an adult from drowning, but died himself.

Not all those believed in God.

And you dare suggest that an athiest cannot think of the good of society (which is what other people are)
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/13/09


Darlene,

Thank you. Finally, an honest answer to the question.

No one on this earth could fairly put together a list of "fair" punishments for all abortions in the myriad of circumstances where they occur.

It is a difficult and morally impossible decision to make, and it is not up to society to make up laws to define the appropriate punishments.

And that is essentially where Roe v Wade left the issue: it is a private and personal question to be determined in most cases by the woman involved.
---atheist on 12/13/09


...I am against abortion but I can not ....say Society should punish women for only doing what the Country's Laws allow.
******

laws allowing murder of a baby through term called abortion have not always existed

when one form of killing is acceptable to society it eventually becomes numb to all types of killing ...unsure how one can be "against" killing yet ignore through "faith" somewhat double-minded

it seems because nobody "knew" the baby and its personality it is easy to dismiss it as nothing

when laws are relaxed for other types of killings maybe the elderly or children who are not smart enough etc how tolerant would "faith" be then?
---Rhonda on 12/13/09


Jerry,

You are completely wrong on points 1 through 4.

You consistently misrepresent the basics of evolutionary theory, insist that a "true" whatever must adhere must adhere to a principle you imagine and create and make statements that are patently false.

As an atheist, I deny the existence of 'god'. That does not require me to believe whatever you insist I must believe.

You trashed your crediblility as a logician when you suggested that Hitler should have been aborted.

How about making an attempt at answering the question of this blog, rather than arguing with Alan about what you think I believe?

I doubt you have the courage to try.
---atheist on 12/13/09


I don't think there needs to be any punishment on Earth for abortion. Don't get me wrong I am against abortion but I can not with any common sense,or fairness of mind,say Society should punish women for only doing what the Country's Laws allow. Besides many,many women who have abortions are punished within themselves,their emotions,the rest of their lives for what they did. Then when they die,I shall let the only one in existance who can be fair,God,judge those women. In the mean time I shall live my life,as Jesus did his,with compassion,love,and prayer.
---Darlene_1 on 12/13/09




Alan,

I appreciate you ability to think and your rejection of the practice of assigning absolute, oversimplified, and altered meanings to ideas to 'prove' a point.

Notice however birds, working with only the intelligence of a 'bird brain' is able to engage in complex and clearly not self-serving animalist behaviors to rear their young. Review the travails of penguins, and you see not only life threatening behavior by the parents for the protection of their one egg, but societal behavior as well with the outcome of helping the species survive.

I wish we could have some serious discussion without immature interruptions.
---atheist on 12/13/09


Jerry ... I tgought that you would be mature enough to realise that it is wrong to think the worst of everyone .. even those with whom you disagree.

You appear to be childish enough to suggest that for example thieving, murder, exploitation and so on are acceptable to atheists.

If you think this you have been brainwashed.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/13/09


Alan: You are too mature for this. Let us agree then that:

(1) Atheists are necessarily evolutionists.

(2) A true evolutionist adheres to the principle that man, as just another animal, must obey the law of natural selection.

(3) Natural selection embodies such concepts as self-preservation, survival of the fittest, kill-or-be-killed, etc.

(4) Such animalistic behavior is incompatible with such altruistic thoughts as "the good of society."

In this, I make no attempt or claim to know the thoughts of the atheist. I merely take him at his word that he is indeed a "true" atheist, and the rest follows from logic.
---jerry6593 on 12/13/09


Jerry ... Are you deliberately misreading my post? Or maybe you are deliberately distorting & misreporting what I said

Where did I say I know what an atheist thinks? I did not and would not say that because I don't know. I said you had no right to claim that you did.

Where did I say an athiest is not necessarily an evolutionist? I did not and would not say that, because I can't see he can be anything else.

We had been talking, and I continued to talk, about the moral aspects of an atheists character ... and it is on this point that you are quite out of order, and without any evidence, in saying that an atheist inevitably behaves in a way "incompatible with caring for the rest of society"
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/12/09


Alan: "You, not being an atheist, have no idea of how an atheist thinks" It would seem that you are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing - knowing what an atheist thinks.

My statement was that all atheists are evolutionists. You say "no, they are not." OK then, what other system of origins do they espouse? I can't wait to hear your answer!
---jerry6593 on 12/12/09




There are other options besides capital punishment. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I would say they should take away the medical liscence from abortion providers. Then if they try to practice they should get prison. Of course, if they perform an illegal abortion they should also get prison.

But, what about those rare cases where it is done to save the life of the mother?
---obewan on 12/12/09


Gordon,

so you believe take the life of those who took a life?

murder for murder?

and who would be the one to "pull the trigger" to willfully murder the abortionist, mother, and whoever else was involved in killing the baby?

not all states support murdering the murderer

and states that do support don't always sentence someone to die

although abortion is horrifying killing the killer has not stopped killing
---Rhonda on 12/11/09


Gordon,

So are there any circumstances where execution would not be the proper punishment for abortions?
---atheist on 12/11/09


Jerry ... "Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society"

There you go again ... imposing your imagination of how they think on other people.

You, not being an atheist, have no idea of how an atheist thinks, nor whether they all have the same morality, and you have no right to claim that you do.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/11/09


Jerry, Since you stated that some people, including a sitting President, should have been aborted, you have lost any credibility regarding morality. By that action, even if in jest, you indirectly encouraged and incited the less stable in this country to murder the President. If your personal 'morality' cannot constrain you, then you have no right to hold forth on what is moral and what is not.

'Internal concoction' is a good phrase to describe what is shown here by various responses to this blog question. Despite the claim that the Bible provides a clear and solid foundation, no one has attempted to actually answer the question. The half hearted attempts evade the impossiblity of applying 'Biblical' morality to a real world problem.
---atheist on 12/11/09


I personally believe capital punishment should be the consequence for practitioners of Abortion. It is MURDER. But, because America has allowed Abortion to be legal....an abortionist cannot be legally punished. But, GOD has other plans for the unrepentant abortionist.
---Gordon on 12/11/09


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Alan: "Not really ... an atheist morality would be based on what is best for "society". Some sensible rules would be:"

I respectfully disagree. An atheist's morality might be based on his HIS CONCEPT of what's best for society, but it is still his internal concoction, and may or may not resemble God's list of absolutes. Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society.
---jerry6593 on 12/11/09


Jerry: "...concrete moral principals".

And on what moral principal is committing abortions based on your fear of what an an adult of that fetus might do?

Don't back way from it now...Just because Jerry finally read what Jerry wrote and Jerry explained it to Jerry doesn't mean that Jerry can now say it was a joke because Jerry now understands how stupid what Jerry wrote was.
---atheist on 12/10/09


Jerry "an atheistic view of morality. A view which can only be based on individual emotions, rather than concrete moral principles"

Not really ... an atheist morality would be based on what is best for "society". Some sensible rules would be:

Don't steal ('cos if you do others may steal from you)
Don't kill
Don't pinch your neighbours wife
Don't lie
Look after your parent's & listen to what they teach you.

It's not strange that these are like God's rules, because He gave these for our benefit, not just for His fun & as a reason for punishing us.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/10/09


Do NOT take "Judge not..." out of context, Robyn, as it does NOT mean for us to be spectators to evil, which is exactly what tolerance is. Do you understand? Love and tolerance are opposites!!!!!!!!!

This comment goes for many of the rest of you, too (I scanned the blog), and don't tell me that abortion isn't murder in every case. Of course it is! It's inexcusable homicide, and don't sit back and tell me/us what you think. God's Word is not up for debate/personal interpretation, contrary to what liars like Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Billy Graham, Joyce Meyer, etc. say.
---Ronald on 12/10/09


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Jerry ... That is an absurd suggestion, as you must know, since neither I nor any man could have known how Hitler would turn out.

As you fully know, my comment was to enquire how you managed to equate Hitler with Obama.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/10/09


a theist: Don't you know when you're being had? It would be insane of me to take seriously an atheistic view of morality. A view which can only be based on individual emotions, rather than concrete moral principles. But thanks for the entertainment anyway.
---jerry6593 on 12/10/09


The living are not to judge or take matters into their own hands. Abortions is another crime and sin like the millions of other sins and crimes people commit. Why pick one you personally don't like. God hates all sin. Not just one. You need to be more tolerant and loving toward others. Look within yourself and I am sure, no certain, you have many sins and crimes you have committed in your lifetime. Get the beam out of your own eye,first before putting others down.
---Robyn on 12/9/09


Matt 15: things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'...

Matt 5: "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Raca = senseless, empty-headed

Fool = foolish, impious, godless
---AlwaysOn on 12/9/09


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Jerry,

Out of the closet you show yourself for the truly insane and sick individual your are and there are no limits for you and your friend Jerry.

You are suggesting that Jerry would have known that Hitler would, in the future would do such bad things as to justify what you call his murder in his mother's womb.

Since you hold this great wisdom, can you explain how Jerry would know this but 'god' wouldn't, and further why 'god' would not do anything about it. Jerry, ask Jerry about this, if Jerry isn't too busy talking to Jerry and his other friend Jerry.

Ask scientist Jerry on what genetic basis and/or parental beliefs that babies should be aborted on the likelyhood they become megamanical murdering monsters.
---atheist on 12/9/09


Alan: So...you're glad Hilter wasn't aborted so that he could give us Auschwitz and Buchenweild?
---jerry6593 on 12/9/09


Jerry my friend you are sick. And your suggestion favoring the abortion of our president at least lets us know you favor and have committed abortion in your heart and therefore as far as Jesus is concerned you're an abortionist. How does it feel?

So what punishment do you favor for yourself?
---larry on 12/8/09


The direct earthly punishment (penalty) can be seen in the physical damage it frequently causes to female reproductive organs & the psychological disorders women ( & men, e.g., spouses) often go thru after they've willingly participated in the killing of a child & /or children. Don't fool yourself into thinking punishment can only come by way of a human court of law. There are always dire consequences to pay for personal sin!
---Leon on 12/8/09


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Jerry,

Add morally destitute and ethically blind to that list.
---atheist on 12/8/09


Oh Atheist, you're just too easy!
---jerry6593 on 12/8/09


"...a few times that abortion would have been a good idea. Hitler would have been one. Obama would have been another - and he supports it."---jerry6593 on 12/7/09

In a few words, you equate abortion to murder, Hitler to Obama, suggest that Obama should have be aborted because of your perceived differences in what you believe, and encourage the assasination of an elected President on what---moral grounds?

You have successfully reinforced the worst characture of an ignorant bigoted irrational holy-than-thou Christian fanatic.

You give me reason and pride to call myself atheist.
---atheist on 12/7/09


Jerry ... "There may have been a few times that abortion would have been a good idea. Hitler would have been one. Obama would have been another - and he supports it"

Have you been to Auschwitz, or Buchenweild?

Incidently I don't support abortion.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/7/09


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abortions are not illegal and not punishable under the law. If a criminal rapist impregnates a woman, the law allows the woman to abort the unlawful pregnancy.
---Eloy on 12/7/09


Rhonda:
many dr's and staff working at these facilities claim they are "christians"
*******
They claim, but are they? In my church (catholic) you are excommunicated for abortion. Of course you can repent - the road back is not closed. But until you do it, you cannot claim to be a part of the church any more. And these are not empty words - it really happens.
I don't know however how it is in protestant churches (there are few protestants in my country). Can you still call yourself a member of your church after you participate in an abortion?
---Robert on 12/7/09


There may have been a few times that abortion would have been a good idea. Hitler would have been one. Obama would have been another - and he supports it.
---jerry6593 on 12/7/09


There is only one thing which is really special about abortion: it is the social support for it among unbelievers.
*****

actually that is NOT true

many "christians" support

many dr's and staff working at these facilities claim they are "christians"

I know lots of "believers" from school college work had abortions validate their actions of killing their child THEN go on to give birth to children ...and a few actually went on to get rid of a few more ...guess it all depends on the weather that day as to whether they keep the child or put it out with the trash

proper punishments are already established in court systems for murder and those ASSISTING in murder
---Rhonda on 12/6/09


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To be clear, Alan, I'm not suggesting that killing is ever okay, especially when it involves children. Rather, I'm observing that it appears to be morally acceptable to certain Believers if it benefits society (or religious purposes, as you've pointed out) as opposed to just the individual.

I don't think I needed to clarify that for you, since you are familiar with my personality on these blogs, but am doing so just in case. :)
---AlwaysOn on 12/6/09


There is only one thing which is really special about abortion: it is the social support for it among unbelievers. (Apart from that, I find no difference between abortion and murder.) In effect the question "what punishment for abortion?" is like the question "what punishment for killing a Jew in Nazi Germany". The question is futile and let's be sober about it: there will be no earthly punishment, too much social support for that. It's very, very sad, but this is our world. The change of hearts would have to come first, before any sensible discussions about punishments.
---Robert on 12/6/09


"Yet, killing children in war is morally okay, since it is done on behalf of society."

OK so killing all those Jewish children in the gas chambers during WW2 was OK?

Throwing the children Kosovo down the wells was OK. Well, perhaps so, it "Christian" Serbs throwing Muslim children doiwn.

Wholesale slaughter of man woman and child at Srebrenica also OK I suppose because it was Christians doing it to Muslims
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/6/09


..."Thou shalt not kill" is wrong when it is done to satisfy self, but right when it is done to satisfy society. For instance, killing children through abortion is selfish and, therefore, morally wrong.
*****

Per planned parenthood 75% of all abortions are done for SELFISH reasons - timing wasn't "right" or a "burden"

"abortion" term used by society MASKING truth of killing an innocent human being growing in womb of its mother - with soothing LABEL to make it "morally right" and legal per societies standards ....numbing minds to HORROR of holocaust

1.3 million murdered YEARLY in USA in name of abortion ...less than 1% of abortions are performed due to rape or incest
---Rhonda on 12/5/09


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Two observations.

#1: Many argue that the Law no longer has a function in the life of the Believer. Further, the punishment for breaking the Law no longer applies to those who are saved by Messiah's sacrifice. Yet, some of the same people will turn around and argue that those who have abortions are Law violators and should, therefore, suffer the punishment prescribed for such (i.e. death).

#2: Breaking the Law of "Thou shalt not kill" is wrong when it is done to satisfy self, but right when it is done to satisfy society. For instance, killing children through abortion is selfish and, therefore, morally wrong. Yet, killing children in war is morally okay, since it is done on behalf of society.

Interesting.
---AlwaysOn on 12/5/09


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, God's Law says, 'Thou shall not kill'.... deeming it a sin. All sins are punishable by death. Sometime it's inflicted through more sin by the anger hands of men that have given way to the devil : but this should not be mistaken for the Vengeance of the Lord !!


-- Atheist :

Brother, If you what a punishment to inflict, then "Loving thy neighbor" is your answer. Don't seek to command fire to come down from heaven and consume others sins, as James & John did in Luke 9:54-56. If you do then "you know not what manner of Spirit you are in Christ", b/c He didn't come to destroy men's lives, but to Save them & keep them Saved by Love !!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/5/09


Very well stated on 12/3 and 12/4, Josef. :)
---AlwaysOn on 12/5/09


"Should women who have abortions be stoned to death?" (o:
Yes, that is the law, and let he that has never sinned cast the first stone. Since no human can make that claim, no human has the authority to carry out the sentence. Therefore the punishment for the crime is moot. As humans let us make the law of liberty the law that we live by, whether we are believes or not. That law implies that we are to do unto others as we would have them do unto us, and to love our fellowman as we love ourselves. I do not think any of us, if given a choice, and having the mental capacity to make that choice, would have chosen to be aborted in our mothers womb. Let us make the choice for our unborn children, that we would choose for ourselves.
---josef on 12/4/09


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Atheist, I apologize for the delayed response to your inquiries on 12/1.
You asked a question that pertains to law, I answered according to the law, as concerning the punishment for murder. Biblically defined, murder is "to lie in wait to maliciously take the life of another human being." I consider voluntary, premeditated abortion as fitting that definition. It is crime that can not be justified by any form of 'human' rationalization. The bottom line for me is the fact that only the Father can give life, therefore, He only has the right to take it, or to determine whose life should be taken. I simply shared His determination.
---josef on 12/3/09


God bless you Theresa, you are a breath of fresh air here!! :)
---Mary on 12/3/09


Glenn,

It seems clear at this point that no one has the courage to put forth the description of punishments corresponding to the crime of abortion.

Some point out that there are special circstances, but none seem willing to will to step up and describe what the punishments should be when there are not special circustances.

Playing with emotionally charged words does nothing to resolve the problem.

If you don't like abortions, the practical solution is birth control education. Screaming abortion is murder doesn't work.
---atheist on 12/3/09


alwayson,thank you,yes he is doing very well,though being premature he is behind,at eighteen months just begining to attempt walking,and he is still on a trake with oxygen because his lungs are a bit weak,but the feared brain damage is not an issue as he responds well and just the other day said daddy to his father.
---tom2 on 12/3/09


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Most societies discriminate between different types of murder - manslaughter, second degree, and first degree, etc. The penalties differ between states, and on a case to case basis.
Theresa, 12/2/09: "All though it is not right to abort a child."... Please insert steal, kill, or destroy, commit genocide, rape, sadistically torture, enslave, etc. Does your doctrine still work?
---Glenn on 12/2/09


Is this a christian blog? All though it is not right to abort a child. We can not bring that baby back. We need to educate, pray and offer forgiveness and mercy to those who have had one or about to. We as christians need to heal those who have had one, not shame them. Read the book of Hosea and learn about Gods forgiveness, mercy and grace even with our worst sins. All we need to do is bring words to Him for fogiveness, and it is done. Most people do not understand the grace that covers us. I do not want to be held accountable for anyone I would cause to never know Gods grace, because of my behavior and condemnation. Who are we to judge ones sins. It will never go away not in our lifetime. Lets find a way as christians to change it.
---Theresa on 12/2/09


rhonda,get the topic straight before you reply,rgere was no discussion about aborting my great grandson,he was born premature,
****

THEN Tom

Get my RESPONSE right before you reply

my point you missed is birth is a choice ...bringing a growing living being inside the womb is a choice in this backward society

your grandson was wanted ...many grandparents wanted their grandchildren yet were unable to ever experience them not because the were premature BIRTHS instead they were NEVER allowed to realize birth premature or not
---Rhonda on 12/2/09


You can pump your own air or save some of it that you are wasting now.
****

Elder

most unfortunate you are filled with so much hatred for a few words I posted ...especially when 125 words cannot express most of anything anyone could ever say on any topic ...best part is your mean-spirited comment comes without ever truly knowing me

...tis the "merry" "love-filled" "christian" season goes ...you sort of proved my point on another topic lol ...and proves my point on this topic too ...seems aborted humans keep more air for the precious few who deem their own lives worthy cuz they got life to lord over and be a "god" to determine who lives
---Rhonda on 12/2/09


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Tom2, thank you for sharing your story. I am sure that an abortion was a very difficult decision for you and your daughter and one that she probably still thinks about to this day. Also, congratulations on the good reports about your great grandson's health. What an incredible blessing that is!
---AlwaysOn on 12/2/09


Yesterday I watched part of a show about children in China. The law there only allows a woman to have one child. One woman spoke about aborting her second child because, although she lived in a rural area and tried keep her pregnancy a secret, the government found out and gave her the choice of abortion or paying a steep fine. Unfortunately, her family was very poor and though they considered selling their home and all of their personal belongings, the amount still wouldn't be enough to pay the fine. I didn't catch what the punishment would be if she were unable to pay, but she opted for an abortion instead. A very, very sad choice for any mother to have to make.
---AlwaysOn on 12/2/09


athiest,your missing my point,if it was murder to have an abortion,and my daughter chose to have an abortion of a perfectly normal pregnancy,and the punishment was execution,because it was murdering,by law,then though I might be upset,she would have to pay the price.Murder is murder no matter what age the victim is,or who the perpretrator is.I had a leagal option to save my daughters life,and I tool it.I do believe that even when abortions were illegal,if the pregnecy would result in death for the mother you could abort,or the fetus was shown to be deformed. not sure though its been a LONG time since legal abortions started.anyway,yes if she were convicted,she have to pay.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


athiest,remember only powerful people,or people with lots of money live outside the law,congressman also,and alot of politicians too,us normal average working people get convicted,and many poor get,whats the word when someone creates evidence to get someone convicted who innocent.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


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rhonda,get the topic straight before you reply,rgere was no discussion about aborting my great grandson,he was born premature,25 weeks,and millions have been spent on him to sustain his life,was it worth it,to me yes,but I will admitt iam prejudice.and actually I wouldn,t blame anyone to spend government money to save premature babies,we spend money killing them dont we.I live by the laws we have,even when I dont agree with them.You can disagree with me and nothing will come from it,but disagree with God ,either knowingly ,or unknowingly, and there are consequences
---tom2 on 12/2/09


Tom,

Real experiences do make what ifs less abstract.

Because of your experience you are closer to reality on this subject than many others.

But if your daughter got pregnant and had an abortion when the fetus was only six weeks, would you still be okay with her being executed for murder? Would you lie to protect her?

BTW, congratulations on your many grandchildren.
---atheist on 12/2/09


by law my grandson was a human being because he was born,though at 25 weeks he could not sustain life on his own.it took nearly 1 year and millions of dollars.GOVERNMENT DOLLARS.they spend billions on bamks,real estate,general motors.My grandson is fine nowwas it worth it,absolutely,was it leagal,absolutely,if it weren,t and they let him die,then we would bury him,like we did his brother 2 years ago,born at 22 weeks he didn,t make it.this site makes people cold,especially you.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


athiest,first let me say that I have 8 grandchildren,all were wanted by my daughters.Now in a situations as you describe meaning that the law would be if you aborted a unborn child it was murder,and one of my daughters were guilty,though I would be upset,they would have too pay the price the law stipulated,thats why we have courts ,and jurys,and laws.But thank God my daughter asked me what she should do,why? cause she was willing to die rather than abort at the time,I told her for me there was no choice, I wanted her to live.senarios are good discussion topics,but real often changes peoples opinions.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


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...was it worth it?for me yes,apparently for you no,possibly cause he aint your great grandson.
*****

so you are saying your grandson was worth it because he was WANTED

where one million plus children aborted by medical procedures unable to SEE BIRTH are worthless? ...and what about the millions of parents who CANNOT SEE their grandchildren because their selfish children deemed their own children not worth "giving birth to"?

again it is a double minded society

ALL children are a GIFT from God yet society chooses who is lucky enough to be born and CHOSEN to live

murdered before birth are simply trash - a decision by LIVING to terminate life "prior to birth"
---Rhonda on 12/2/09


Would your daughter then be a murderer? What about the others who helped her?
****

Are you sad you never saw your grandchild? Or happy your daughter got RID of that "unwanted thing"?

easier to pretend grandchild is just a fetus rather than acknowledging the human life growing

If daughter enlists help of wife to murder your parents due to their large financial estate do you support punishment for murder or turn a blind eye forgetting it all ever happened

laws determining what degree of murder for breathing human who is killed ...society could do same potential life GROWING ...and it DOES some who murder pregnant women serve time for murder of fetus ...why the double standard
---Rhonda on 12/2/09


Tom,

I understand the decision. But now based on your experience tell me what your position would have been in a slightly different situation:

Your unmarried sixteen daughter gets pregnant, but can deliver a healthy child. She insists upon an abortion, and manages to get one with the help of a friend, older sister, or perhaps your wife.

Would your daughter then be a murderer? What about the others who helped her? Would you support laws to punish such people with imprisonment or execution?

(BTW) are you sure you didn't interfer with 'god's' will with that abortion. Maybe his punishment for her immorality was death and you stopped it.
---atheist on 12/2/09


athiest,one of my daughters got pregnant at 16,the fetus was somehow wrapped around her spine and would have been severely deformed,and probably have killed my daughter if left to full term.so guess what?I chose to abort for her,I really didn,t want to see her die.today she has three healthy children and is a pastors wife.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


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rhonda,its not a double standard,birth by law in this country is the begining of life,and if a premature baby ,or when a premature baby is born is born legally they are a human being.personally I believe they are when conceived.But also legally,government cant make the decision for an adult who is unable to self sustain life,thats a family decision,or a prior order not to sustain life by the person in question.but premature babies are unable to make decisions.I have a 18 month old grandson,born at 25 weeks,millions have been spent o him,he fine now,was it worth it?for me yes,apparently for you no,possibly cause he aint your great grandson.
---tom2 on 12/2/09


Rhonda on 12/1/09, You have just about convinced me, in your case, of abortion retroactive.
You cannot sustain your own life. God allows you to live. One day that will change. Maybe you will be put on a bicycle pump instead of a breathing machine. You can pump your own air or save some of it that you are wasting now.
---Rhonda_on_12/1/Elder on 12/1/09


Once upon a time, a woman was caught in adultery and brought before Messiah for punishment. He listened to her accusers remind Him that the law's punishment was stoning, but He purposely avoided offering His own recommendation and silently wrote on the ground instead. They continued to pester Him until finally He stopped, turned His attention to them and suggested that the one without sin throw the first stone at her. He then went back to writing on the ground and tuning them out. The scriptures report that each man became convicted by his own conscience and walked away leaving the woman unharmed. Once her accusers fled in shame, the Messiah told the woman that He did not condemn her and that she should go, but not repeat her sin. (John 8:3-11)
---AlwaysOn on 12/1/09


The proper punishment for the adulteress was stoning her to death. But Jesus said let the one without sin cast the first stone.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/1/09


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what is the proper punishment for murder in society?

society has determined a fetus is not a human being

YET

double standards practiced where society spends billions of dollars to keep prematurely born infants alive - without medical support these babies would die

if society can abort than we can SAVE BILLIONS of dollars annually in USA be discontinuing medical support for premature babies

at the very least we will be in agreement that all babies who cannot sustain life on their own are simply trash to be discarded

sadly abortion is just another medical procedure no different than plastic surgery
---Rhonda on 12/1/09


Josef,

I see you referring to Leviticus.

Should women who have abortions be stoned to death?
---atheist on 12/1/09


atheist, I can't speak for God because I do not know what is inside a person's heart.

God judges by the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I do know the word says, "God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he reap." "If you sow to your flesh, you shall reap death." "If you sow to the things of the Spirit, you shall reap spiritual things."

The wages of sin is death and abortion is murder. Thou shall not kill is a command, not a choice, but I cannot answer for God what punishment for abortion while a person is still alive - I would have to say misery, and they are opening themselves up to demons because they disobeyed God's word that says Thou Shall NOT kill.
---Donna on 12/1/09


Josef,

So I take it that you would have women having abortions, their doctors, and anyone aiding in the abortion executed? No exceptions or special circumstances?
---atheist on 12/1/09


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Tom: "first lets understand that not all abortion is murder."

So in what circumstances is abortion not murder?

If the morning after pill is used is that murder?

If an abortion is performed after three months, but the mother was fourteen, a victim of incestual rape, and is likely to die if she attempts to give birth, is that murder?

Who decides?
---atheist on 12/1/09


What Punishment for Abortion?
"If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man. He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death at the evidence of witnesses, but no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall not take ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death. Cursed is he who strikes his neighbor in secret. And all the people shall say, 'Amen.'" Leviticus 24:17>Genesis 9:6>Exodus 21:12>Numbers 35:30,31>Deuteronomy 27:24
---josef on 12/1/09


first lets understand that not all abortion is murder.some must be aborted because they will kill the mother,or the baby will never survive.But those which seem to be or will be normal, and are aborted for financial,emotional,or just plain I dont want any kids attitudes,are wrong,though legal.The abortion issue,or the right to choose is a hot issue,and has been,50 percent will tell you there is no punishment,and the other 50 will tell you it will be divine judgement.but to answer your question legally today in the us of a there is none.
---tom2 on 12/1/09


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