Pastors should lead by example. A pastor should lovingly encourage his flock to follow his lead as he follows the lead (Bible teaching, revelations) of God, the Holy Spirit. He is ever aware the flock (Church) isn't his, but belongs to Jesus. This kind of pastor is rare in 2010.
Pastors shouldn't ride roughshod over (unjustly dominate), herd (push) & ultimately bleed (make merchandise of) their flock. Such actions are, to say the least, unholy & unbiblical. This Jim Jones type of pastor is very dangerous to the flock because his agenda is to build "his" church, expand "his" ministry for "his" own good pleasure (pride). This kind of pastor (male & female) is everywhere in 2010.
---Leon on 2/8/10|
Rod . . . thank you for the encouragement > yes, I'd say the Bible does not teach a CEO-type pastor. It does say, "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, the elders feed the sheep their good example. But I consider > in a certain church there may be one leader who is the pastor, but not bossing without question, but he is working with other pastoring people who may not always be present in his church. Our pastor is constantly accounting with us and seeking feedback, plus older more mature members are helping him, and his wife I'd say is a true helpmate he needs so much (o: Also, we have Hebrews 13:17, but he does not push "submission", but we feed on mutual helping.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/8/09|
Rod4Him ... "In contrast, experientially, I would say the "pastor" acts as if he answers to one. He thinks he is the CEO and acts like it. People expect him to "call the shots." They act and believe YHWH speaks more directly to them than other believers. "God gives them the message," and people believe it"
Rod .. the key word in what you say is "experientially" It may be your ex[perience of pastors. Maybe in the States or certain denominations, the "pastor" takes on the "boss" role, but it is not MY expereince.
But "overseer" to me is like the man with the whip who oversees the slaves.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/8/09|
alan, another thought, overseers are still a biblical concept, not a single pastor.
If overseers don't qualify, that doesn't negate that overseers are what the bible teaches, not a single-CEO type pastor.
---Rod4Him on 12/7/09|
Well, the Bible characteristics that a pastor should display are given in the Bible.
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. Jer. 3:15 One of the problems I've encountered is pastor worship. The sheep come into the service and do not pay attention, close attention to what is being preached. We need to remember that pastors are human. They are not perfect, but that is exactly why it's important that we don't worship them instead of God. If something isn't right, we need to go to him and discuss it. There are many good pastors. I'm amazed by the messages full of good spiritual food that I hear. God Bless Everyone,
---Mae on 12/7/09|
alan, "To me the term "overseer" smacks of discipline and authority and control, very much like a CEO."//
We get into definitions again, which is usually benefical.
In contrast, experientially, I would say the "pastor" acts as if he answers to one. He thinks he is the CEO and acts like it. People expect him to "call the shots." They act and believe YHWH speaks more directly to them than other believers. "God gives them the message," and people believe it.
A difference is that in a community of believers "overseers," more than one, participate one to another, they don't lord it, they qualify. They understand that all believers are equal.
---Rod4Him on 12/7/09|
Rod4Him ... There's no Biblical position "pastor," the CEO, senior pastor, of a church-institution. However, there are "overseers, which should qualify according Scripture.
To me the term "overseer" smacks of discipline and authority and control, very much like a CEO
"Pastor" is a much softer term, meaning shepherd, someone who looks after, and nurtures those in his care.
I think it is the latter who feature in the Bible
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/7/09|
Bill, concerning the CEO-type pastor, the passage in Peter that you quoted does not describe a single-senior-CEO type pastor.
Elders (plural), among you is the describtion. Peter also says, voluntarily, not for sordid gain, but with eagerness, not "lording," (my quotes) but be examples. VS 5, be subject to your elders, and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility "toward one another" (my quotes).
I know what happens is that the CEO-type pastor is so traditionalized that when one reads scripture, the assumption is that the scripture is describing our modern-day "pastor."
We may dissagree on this point, however, you have many great contributions to these blogs.
---Rod4Him on 12/7/09|
A Pastor should be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion........... He should be hospitable , self controlled......Read Titus 1:6-9
Not addicted to wine, free from the love of money,.....Read 1Timothy 3:2-13
---Caroline on 12/7/09|
Eloy > "The life of Christ" > yes, "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (in Galatians 2:20).
Rod > "There's no Biblical position 'pastor'" > but Peter says to "elders", "Shepherd the flock of God which is among you," in 1 Peter 5:2.
Mark > "Not condemning, but edifying and teaching individuals what they should learn" > "Not condemning" > I definitely need to do better not to be criticizing people and talking down on them. And teaching "what they should learn" > I now see . . . me teaching them is not all there is to it > they need to be told what they need, and then go out and learn how to do it, discovering how God has us doing what He says.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/7/09|
The life of Christ, the Good Shepherd.
---Eloy on 12/7/09|
There's no Biblical position "pastor," the CEO, senior pastor, of a church-institution.
However, there are "overseers, which should qualify according Scripture.
As MarkV said, "They should be born of the Spirit, have a passion for the Lord."
In addition, they should be...
1) Husband of one wife.
6) able to teach
7) not addicted to wine
10) free from love of money
11) manages his own household well
12) not a new convert
13) has a good reputation outside the church
14) doesn't lord his leadership
15) an example to believers
16) submits to one another
---Rod4Him on 12/7/09|
They should be born of the Spirit, have a passion for the Lord. Should be able to teach from Scripture. Not condemning, but edifying and teaching individuals what they should learn, and how to conduct themselves among others. Preparing them to go out and witness to the lost.
---MarkV. on 12/6/09|
1 Peter 5:3 > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." Their example would include all that Paul directs in 1 Timothy 3:1-10. And the example needs to be in the sight of God. While they are not pleasing ro God, they will qualify for God's resistance > James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5 > and thus there will be frustration and struggling, etc., instead of the yoke being easy and the burden being light with "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) > if we are not pleasing to the LORD, we are reaping how we ourselves are not pleased and enjoying sharing with Him > we have this instant feedback.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/6/09|