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All Atheists Evolutionists

Are all atheists evolutionists?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 12/13/09
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Warwick,

Like I say. You pick the meaning you want.

The theory of evolution involves gradual genetic change over many generations time, speciation, common ancestry of different species, and the mechanism of natural selection, whereby different combinations of genes are reproduced more successfully than others as a result of the different abilities of individual organisms to survive.

Natural selection is only a part of the theory. Altruism, as EXCELLENT points out exists only in the subjective headspace of egotistical men.

Are you afraid too, to admit you are an animal?
---atheist on 12/20/09


More Excellent Way altruism is the opposite of pack-behaviour which is when some animals band together by instinct. Human pack behaviour is somewhat different as humans have greater mental powers than animals and can fully anticipate the personal benefits to be gained by cooperation.

Altruism, the self sacrificing behaviour as exhibited by Jesus and the apostles is altruism in its true form as they gave without personal gain in mind. Much the opposite.

Pack behaviour can be explained in evolutionary terms as it confers survival advantage.

Human altruism conversely cannot be explained by evolutionary principles as it decreases survival advantage.
---Warwick on 12/21/09


If you look at the SIMPLE.WIKIPEDIA article on "Kin Selection", you'll see that it's also called "kin altruism", is a FORM of natural selection, and is for CERTAIN animals. Many animals are solitary/"loners", but some are not.

Wolves grow up in a "PACK" (related "kin") and might stay in the same pack for life (it is very unusual to find a "lone wolf").

Pack wolves would have need of altruistic behavior, solitary animals would simply have no concept of "altruism".

"Altruism" is a valid concept, but only for those who have need of it's purpose.
---more_excellent_way on 12/20/09


Jerry "You are still confused as to my position, however. I do not say that atheists and animals cannot act altruistically"

No Jerry I think it is you who is confused, for this is what you said on the other blog:

A true evolutionist (and you claim an atheist is necessarily an evolutionist) adheres to the principle that man, as just another animal, must obey the law of natural selection... ... Such animalistic behavior is incompatible with such altruistic thoughts as "the good of society."

If that did not mean that atheists are incapable of altrusitic actions, you were not being very clear
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/20/09


Jerry ... Yes you are indeed confusing me about your position.

On that other blog you said ""Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society"

That means an atheist is incapable of acting altruistically.

You now appear to accept that is untrue. You also seem to agree with the final paragraph of mine of 12/18
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/20/09




Atheist the Oxford Dictionary gives a number of definitions for 'evolution.' To avoid missunderstanding I defined in what sense (in agreement with this dictionary) I was using 'evolution'-i.e.the naturalistic development of life, from the first life form, to all the life forms which exist. To further assist you I pointed out that 'evolution' means more than only neoDarwinism as there are other naturalistic theories.

It would be en excellent idea if you got hold of a good dictionary.

As you continue to argue I feel permitted to say you are just playing silly games or claiming some atheists believe in supernatural creation. Astounding!
---Warwick on 12/19/09


Atheist, you wrote "Altruistic behavior is observed in animals." I ask again, how is this observed?

In line with dictionary definitions of altruism I gave the example of Jesus and the apostles as altruism, at its best. Their example is one of self-sacrifice for no personal gain as opposed to group cooperation which is ultimately beneficial to the individual.

If you claim their acts were for personal gain,then it is incumbent upon you to show what personal gain they acheived.

By what process did this gain in grey matter occur? Remember this is not an instance of the duplication of genetic information, but the geneeration of completely new, unique, and specific genetic information.
---Warwick on 12/19/09


Warwick,

As you said 'evolution' means a lot of things. What it means is what you need it to mean so that you can prove that its wrong. That is what you do. It's your natural nature.

Altruism will mean what ever you need it to mean to prove your point.

The anthropomorphic and completely subjective observations we apply to animals is quite non-sensical anyway. As ExcellentWay pointed out "since OUR motivation is heroic/egotistical, "altruism" is simply a term we use to flatter ourselves."

What makes us special is that our evolutionary path has given us enough grey matter and the physical traits to make up words and discuss such things.
---atheist on 12/19/09


Alan: Thanks for admitting your error. You are still confused as to my position, however. I do not say that atheists and animals cannot act altruistically. Indeed, the fact that animals do behave in such a manner only serves to prove that "natural selection" is but a hoax, and that the foundational principle of the darwinian religion is a lie. Likewise, atheists do not perform altruistic acts because they developed altruism through the process of natural selection, but rather because the REAL God put "a measure" of the Holy Spirit within them. The God that they claim doesn't exist is the only source of any good impulses they may have.
---jerry6593 on 12/19/09


Atheist, you wrote "Altruistic behavior is observed in animals." How?

I did not say animals take part in 'false altruism' at all, but in instinctive cooperative behaviour, which favours the pack which favours them. Humans also cooperate. This is not altruism but self interest. Altruism is self sacrifice while cooperative behaviour is for self-gain.

Cooperative behaviour can be explained in evolutionary terms, as it gives survival advantage. However altruistic behaviour gives no survival advantage, just the opposite. How then can this be explained in evolutionary terms? It can't.

What Jesus did for us is the highest example of altruism. Likewise the apostles preaching the truth unto death.
---Warwick on 12/19/09




The undeniable and generic (non-partisan) difference between humans and animals is 'the human consciousness'...

...(consciousness/conscience=OUR spirit).

Society misunderstands what is meant by "spirituality". The creator/origin is the DIVINE "consciousness"/spirit.

Many people are simply 'creatures of habit', but if a person decides to establish a conscience/consciousness, their ambitions, goals, and thoughts might give them a fighting spirit, team spirit, peaceful spirit, etc.

God wants us to have a righteous, peaceful and just spirit, but no matter how honorable a spirit we have, our needs are not completely met by our environment (we cannot be truly selfless).
---more_excellent_way on 12/18/09


Jerry ... that was the comment that I mistakenly attributed to you ... it was in fact Atheist. 'Twas my mistake

The rest of my post clearly showed that Atheists can behave altruistically, but you still seem to find this difficult.

Warwick appears to accept that humans, including atheists, can behave altruistically.

As he asks ... how did this altruistic nature arise (develop) in humans?

It's possible, I suppose (and I expect that's what Atheist may say) that it arose as a development of the evolutionist cooperation within society.

But I think it is God-given ... even to those who don't believe God exists.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/09


Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:
Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
---MIchael on 12/18/09


because physical reality must have had a begining,the only thing that does make sense is a spiritual being who always has existed created it,it is by far the best explanation.chicken ?egg? which came first? chicken of course,God made her then she laid an egg.
---tom2 on 12/17/09
Chicken had to have a Rooster...or it is just an egg.
Maybe GOD made Adam/Rooster....he gave a rib/(eve)chicken....and the egg cycle began.

What is amazing about darwidiot evolution is....a mud cell decides along the way to be either a male and female.....without a brain. Oh, they need eyes,ears. Plus a few other essentials.
Seen all the time in the lakes and ponds around the world....pretty long haired tad-poles and bald headed poly wogs.
---Trav on 12/18/09


1Timothy 1:4, 4:7, 6:20, 2Timothy 2:16. No, but they are still fools. Psalms 14:1, 53:1, Proverbs 12:15, 13:16, 16:22, 24:7, Matthew 6:22-23, 7:13, 12:34-37, Mark 7:21-23, Romans 1:18-32, Ephesians 4:17-19.
---Glenn on 12/18/09


Evolution, the theory of, is an EVIL TEACHING.
---Catherine on 12/18/09


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Altruistic behavior is observed in animals. Humans engaged in it also, but sometimes cheat. The center of you agrument is that there is pure altruism exhibited by humans (being somehow special) and a false altruism exhibited by animals, and most importantly that humans are not animals.

You have two points to prove: one that humans engaged in pure altruism, with never and nary a selfish motive,purpose of self gain, etc., Two that they are not animals.

Jerry, the scientist can certain scientificially prove that human are not animals.

Hypothesis: Humans are not animals.
---atheist on 12/18/09


Realistically, altruism does not exist for the human (we are all selfishly in competition with each other).

By experience, animals realize that all of their needs will always be met by their environment (they don't need to be in competition with each other...they can afford to be altruistic FOR THEIR OWN GROUP (kin selection), but since OUR motivation is heroic/egotistical, "altruism" is simply a term we use to flatter ourselves.

Humanity's preference/bias for 'subjective truth' is very strong. We find OBJECTIVE truth to be very restrictive (non-negotiable).

God included Pilate's question ("What is truth?", John 18:38) in scripture so that we might notice the value of 'objectivity' in pursuing truth.
---more_excellent_way on 12/18/09


Alan: I took the following comment by you as a request for further explanaton:

"Jerry ...You now seem to say that even birds can behave for the benefit of their society. It's strange then to recall yuor initial statement implying that atheists cannot."

If in so doing I have somehow offended you, I humbly beg your forgiveness. Now can we get back on topic?
---jerry6593 on 12/18/09


Atheist, altruism is not animals or humans cooperating because in gaining group advantage, they also derive a personal advantage. This is a selfish survival instinct.

Altruism is an unselfish concern for the welfare of others. It is the opposite of animal survival instinct as the altruistic person will if necessary risk safety, or life to help others, for no personal gain. During WW11 people hid Jews from Nazi's who sought to exterminate them. Many altruistic people were tortured and killed for their trouble.

The Nazi desire to exterminate Jews and other 'sub-humans' (as these monsters described them) was based squarely upon Darwinian principles.

The question remains: How could altruism come about by naturalistic means?
---Warwick on 12/17/09


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Jerry ... However, you now tell me ... "Alan: On Atheist's "Punishment for Abortion" blog (now closed) you asked for an explanation of altruistic behavoir in animals (as well as self-proclaimed atheists)"

I may be losing my mind a little, and indeed the first paragraph my last post to that blog did mistakenly attribute a statement to you.

But I don't think my memory has gone entirely, so I am pretty certain I never asked for that explanation.

I am even more certain that my eyes still function, and I can't see such a request either.

As to you denial that an atheist can act altruistically, that is a gross insult to those mentioned in that last post.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/17/09


atheist: "NO" YES! All you have proved is that natural selection is not a valid modifier of a species. All you have is love, love, love. If the strongest don't kill the weakest, how do they gain supremacy? By out-nurturing the others? Why don't you quit pretending? Admit that yours is a false god. There is no evolution. God is the only reasonable answer to the origin of life. You have nothing else - NOTHING!
---jerry6593 on 12/17/09


Jerry:"animal altruism runs counter to the principle of natural selection".

NO!

Species whose parents care for their young are better equipped to deal with their environment. They are physically larger with more highly developed brains, and gain from the teachings of the parents on how to hunt.

Mammals have fewer offspring but those offspring have a greater likelyhood to survive because they have been cared for.

Species who work together, such as pack animals have a competitive advantage against animals that do not.

You need to get off the moebus strip you keep running around.
---atheist on 12/17/09


Alan: On Atheist's "Punishment for Abortion" blog (now closed) you asked for an explanation of altruistic behavoir in animals (as well as self-proclaimed atheists). Here it is:

Since the presence of animal altruism runs counter to the principle of natural selection as espoused by Darwin, then natural selection, and hence darwinian evolution must necessarily be false, given the behavior of such animals.

Now, since all atheists believe in this false theory, their motives for good must come from something other than the false paradigm they espouse. Perhaps they are but petulant children, angry with their Father over some perceived indignity.
---jerry6593 on 12/17/09


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Cory, it is not ignorant of you to believe you are on the "right path," nor of me to think differently. If I am ignorant then by the same measure so are you.

You wrote ".....find books upon books of research proving evolution." Please supply one "proof' of evolution. Remember evolution is not survival of the fittest or speciation, but the explanation about how the socalled first simple cell evolved into all the life forms ever.

"in my eyes your the one that needs saving from living a life of delusion." Please explain one negative about this "delusion" I need saving from!

Chapter and verse where the Bible contradicts itself and is full of false promises, please!
---Warwick on 12/16/09


No, an atheist is a foolish person whom wrongly professes the lie that there is no God, contrary to all the evidence prooving God in fact exists. And a evolutionist is a foolish person whom wrongly professes the lie that man evolved from lower life forms, contrary to the truth that God created man in his own shape, and he also created each creature after their own kind.
---Eloy on 12/17/09


Cory ... You say "no matter how much proof someone puts in front of a christian they still look the other way and pretend we are still living 2,000 years ago"

No quite sure what you mean by that 2000 years ago. I know nobody who thinks we are living in any time except today

Anyway ... what proof do you mean? Have you proof that a Creator does not exist?
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/17/09


because physical reality must have had a begining,the only thing that does make sense is a spiritual being who always has existed created it,it is by far the best explanation.chicken ?egg? which came first? chicken of course,God made her then she laid an egg.
---tom2 on 12/17/09


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atheist: "So now you are asking Alan to answer you [sic] stupid questions?"

You are so much fun! I just love it when someone makes a stupid grammar mistake in the middle of a sentence that calls someone else stupid.

For the record, As an atheist, do you believe the theory of Evolution? Do you have any explanation at all for the origin of life on planet earth?
---jerry6593 on 12/17/09


Alan,

I agree. I cannot grasp the idea of infinity---you can always add one more. So I cannot conceive of a time before time or the edge of an infinite universe. What was before time? I just don't know. I don't expect that I will ever know. Maybe one day there will be an explanation.

Because I can't wrap my head around those ideas doesn't mean that there must be a supernatural being who does understand. If the was a 'Creator' who made the creator, where is he now, and how did he do it. If there is an 'intelligent designer', who or what made him?

If science can patch theories together and show how, we may still be stuck with a big why?

A wise man knows he does not know. I read that somewhere.
---atheist on 12/16/09


Alan, i know its very hard to grasp the concept of the universe, believe me im always thinking about it. people just have to come to a realization that even as the smartest animal/mammal that we will never know everything and just because we don't doesn't mean we can just say "oh i dont get it so lets just say a magical being that nobody has ever found any prove of EVER made everything in six days".
Its very sad really because no matter how much proof someone puts in front of a christian they still look the other way and pretend we are still living 2,000 years ago.
---cory on 12/16/09


Cory,

I am not clear on how you get your numbers. If there are billions of believers in a one true 'god', surely there must be billions of true 'gods'---one for each believer. I am sure that upon interviewing each adherent carefully that the properties and qualities of each of their true 'gods' would be slightly different and that if their true 'god' indeed exists, he must be unique.

There may be Muslim 'gods', Christian 'gods', etc., but seldom is each going to be exactly the same for more than one adherent even if those adherents attend the same church or place of worship.
---atheist on 12/16/09


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warwick, i understand where you are coming from but it is very ignorant to think that everyone elses religion is wrong except yours and that christians are the only ones on the right path.
i do respect it though.
in my eyes your the one that needs saving from living a life of delusion. you can go to any source in the science field and find books upon books of research proving evolution. i mean have any of you found it odd that the bible constantly contradicts itself and is full of false promises that have been proven time and time again to be false?
prayer has already been proven multiple times to not work whatsoever.
---cory on 12/16/09


I seem to be posting a lot on to the blog I started.

Atheist ... You highlight a crucial bit of the whole question when you say "But if you must know, Santa Claus made it in his workshop. But I still can't figure out who made Santa Claus or his workshop"

This of course is the problem for everyone! If it all came from the Big Bang how were the elements involved in the Big Bang there in the first place?

Evolution, or whatever development of life occurred, requires it to start somewhere. Where & What?

Some suggest material came from another world. But where, why & how did that start?

Some say, its always been there. If that is possible, we still need to know HOW!
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/16/09


Cory, Scripture says we live in God's created universe. I believe the God of the Bible is that Creator.

I therefore believe those believing otherwise are wrong and it is the Christians job to tell them the Truth. It is not our job to convert them, that is God's work. We are not permitted to hate or harm them even though we believe they are wrong and hellbound. We are commanded to love, and pray for them.

I believe the God of the Bible is the only Creator God, firstly because He says so and because as Romans 1:20 explains, the creation itself is such convincing proof of His reality that people are without excuse.

Everyone has the same evidence of the past and the present and I am convinced it confirms what I believe.
---Warwick on 12/16/09


there are billions of people who claim that thier god is the only true god and are just as faithful as all of you. now what i would like to know is how thousands of all these supreme gods coexist together?
---cory on 12/16/09


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The irony of atheists is that they see themselves as scientific and wiser than ones who believe in a God. What they fail to see or accept is that they are not at all scientific in that atheism is just as much of a belief as those who believe in God. There is no scientific evidence supporting belief in no God. It is not a fact so is equally unscientific. Agnosticism is more scientific:) and a tad more wise/intelligent than disbelief. Scientifically, there is more evidence supporting the existence of God. The Big Bang theory of earths creation is far reaching at best and ludacris/insane at worst.
---jody on 12/16/09


Jerry6953, Probably Atheists who are not evolutionists just don't think about origins, they are here and "live for the moment" without a thought of why, how or where it all began. It takes laborious thinking to come up with an answer,too much work for the lazy Atheist! Besides they don't have to,long as there's food on the table and a place to sleep..there's more????
---1st_cliff on 12/16/09


Jerry ... No I was not protecting yuor anonymity ... it's just thatr some here object when they are quoted in such a way, and I did not want to upset you by giving your name

But why do you seek to misrepresent what I say? You know from my response elsewhere that I agreed with assessment that atheist are (or are most likely to be) evolutionists.

My objection, as you know, was to the final word about "incompatible with caring for the rest of society" And I gave you a full rwason for that.

Please don't go on twisting what I say. Thank you
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/16/09


Trav:Would you tie them to the chairs and prop their eyes open to force them to watch, too.

Are you talking about the whole movie or just the youtube clip?
---atheist on 12/16/09

Ha, good one darweiner. Sheep are different than wolves. Wolves, you shut the door on. Usually eat each other when little sheep are not available. Little Lamb Sheep would not object, when they seen the good food/tools they need to put Darwidiots to bed with.
You doo-doo more good here than you know A-theist. You are the one that pointed out this dawkins 2 me. Send me someone that is a challenge. This girlie boy went down by an Anti-christ Judean. My GOD has a sense of humor that I wish you could enjoy.
Both ways Darwin died.
---Trav on 12/16/09


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Jerry:"Here's another question for you: If any thinking atheist who did not believe in evolution could be found, what would his concept of origins be (Bill's human blob theory notwithstanding)?"

So now you are asking Alan to answer you stupid questions?

Your alternative, that 'god' spoke it all into existence, has no more proof than Bill's human blob theory.

Saying it is "natural" does not force one into a mythological supernatural explanation for anything not explained to Jerry's satisfaction.

But if you must know, Santa Claus made it in his workshop. But I still can't figure out who made Santa Claus or his workshop.
---atheist on 12/16/09


Trav:'Now if I were a modern day pastor, the doors would be locked until every young person old enough to be affected.....seen this film.

I'm not a pastor. But, I may lock the doors on a few churches anyway."

That sounds like brainwashing and forced indoctrination. Would you tie them to the chairs and prop their eyes open to force them to watch, too.

Are you talking about the whole movie or just the youtube clip?
---atheist on 12/16/09


Alan: "Cliff ... Thanks for that comment. It is I think the appropriate response to the person who said

"Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society""
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/14/09

I see that you're enjoying my thesis. Did you forget that it was me who wrote it, or were you trying to protect my anonymity?

Here's another question for you: If any thinking atheist who did not believe in evolution could be found, what would his concept of origins be (Bill's human blob theory notwithstanding)?
---jerry6593 on 12/16/09


It's not just the harsh, non-sensical portrayal of the creator that so many people object to, it's the behavior of the typical Christian and the PRIDEFUL elitist ATTITUDES.

The most sincere 'GOD LOVING' Christian is the 'BACKSLIDER' because they have found no solace/comfort for their heart in the institutions of man.

In Jesus's Sermon On the Mount, Jesus showed that the true 'brethren of humanity' are the ones who don't claim to be "Godworthy". Even Jesus...

..."did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped" (Philippians 2:6).

Ephesians 5:9
"the fruit of light is found in everything that is GOOD AND RIGHT AND TRUE" (have a righteousness of your own).
---more_excellent_way on 12/15/09


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More_Excellent_Way, I really like your reply. The Atheists (and agnostics and pagans and buddhists and hindus, etc.) that I have met have also been very peaceful, kind-hearted people with strong values and integrity. I would choose the company of some of these over some of the Christians I've known. My observation is that many of them are more turned off by organized, man-made religion than anything else. Also, when you listen to many of them carefully, their problem isn't necessarily with believing in God, but in believing in the way in which we've attempted to package and take ownership of Him. Of course, this is not true of all, but I believe it is true of many. I also echo your thoughts on evolution vs. creationism.
---AlwaysOn on 12/15/09


Trav I agree with you. I watched the Ben Stein interview and couldn't believe my eyes and ears. Dawkins came across as quite weird. Just as weird as a crystal gazer. He appeared quite embarassed at the nonsense Stein drew out of him.

Very revealing.
---Warwick on 12/14/09

Now if I were a modern day pastor, the doors would be locked until every young person old enough to be affected.....seen this film.

I'm not a pastor. But, I may lock the doors on a few churches anyway.
---Trav on 12/15/09


The question is moot. No amount of prideful logic and chest thumping changes God's authorship. They're lost and going to hell. First things first.
---larry on 12/14/09


Atheist, the question is: Are all atheists evolutionists?

Would you agree that atheists who do not believe in god cannot therefore believe in a supernatural creator?

Therefore, if they have thought it through, they must believe all there is came about by naturalistic (as opposed to supernatural) processes.

The word 'evolution' has many meanings. In one sense it is an 'umbrella' word used to describe various naturalistic theories regarding the development of life, from the proposed original life-form. Today Neo-Darwinism rules, however there have been other theories, and there will most likely be more.

I therefore believe all atheists (whether they have thought it through or not) are evolutionists.
---Warwick on 12/14/09


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I really don't understand why any person that is an atheist would be on this blog. I understand that you have different believes, but to go on a website just to spite other peoples' believes is not only immature, its rude and it proves how idle handed you are. I have no intentions to cut anyone down, i just wish i could search the word "god" and not get a lot of people telling me why i shouldn't have the faith that i have in my heart.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!
---Corey on 12/15/09


From experience, aetheists are good and right and true (peaceful and righteous).

Understandably, their prejudice against acknowledging a deity is actually simply that man has portrayed the creator in a non-sensical and partisan manner.

Realistically, evolution (biological adaptation over the centuries) cannot exclude a beginning, nor can it reasonably claim that living creations (animate objects) came from an INANIMATE "FORCE" (a lesser source).

It is a crime against humanity that the age of the earth and it's biological progression have been taught as being in conflict with the acknowledgement of the creator and the "purifier"/Jesus (Hebrews chap. 1 and chap. 9).
---more_excellent_way on 12/15/09


Earl ... No I am not enjoyinmg my humour.

Do you not realsie what "anti" means?

It means you are against something. You can't be against something that as far as yuo are concerned does not exist.

So you or I cannot be against or anti fairies. We can be against the belief in fairies because this leads people tp live in cloud-cuckoo land.

And an atheist cannot be anti_Christ. He can be against beleif in Christ ... because he knows the beleif exists, and thinks it is harmful
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/15/09


Atheist,
well if you are a confessed atheist,which I believe you are, then you fit the conclusion.You had this opportunity to deny or counter such but instead you toyed with words in your reply.So,from this, you do not deny it, you are in agreement with my conclusion.
---earl on 12/14/09


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Trav I agree with you. I watched the Ben Stein interview and couldn't believe my eyes and ears. Dawkins came across as quite weird. Just as weird as a crystal gazer. He appeared quite embarassed at the nonsense Stein drew out of him.

Very revealing.
---Warwick on 12/14/09


Cory,
this is not on topic but to give a short reply-Jesus revealed his father,our father whom we call God and God revealed his son -Jesus to all the world to come.Jesus or God is not at fault if those who take it upon themselves to distort the meanings,nature and values of God.It is not uncommon to find unchristianity in christianity .Jesus revealed a new way of salvation,man caused it to become complicated.Pronounce your judgements upon mankind.
---earl on 12/14/09


Cory, I suspect you'll be going to Stonehenge on the 21st to welcome in the Winter Solstice just like the Druids of old and all the other rebels against Christianity!
Just remember that it was God the creator that made the 4 seasons!Not some man-made creature of someone's imagination!
Maybe the same Aliens who made the "crop circles"???
---1st_cliff on 12/14/09


Earl:"Well a confessed atheist ,Ill say again,withstanding all your humorus criticisms and expressions, is basically an anti christ."

Gee I didn't know that. Do I get a membership card? Do I have to go to meetings?

Can you show that to me in the Bible?

Why are you all beating up on the only rational Christian here?
---atheist on 12/14/09


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Alan ,are you enjoying your humor?Well a confessed atheist ,Ill say again,withstanding all your humorus criticisms and expressions, is basically an anti christ.Why,because a confessesd atheist does not recognize a conscious intelligent source-namely Deity.The confessed atheist will verbally engage all who will listen to encourage rethinking the existance of the God he/she believes in.You may see humor but this is counter productive to increasing the kingdom when one encourages others to doubt with intellectual and verbal skills believers may not have.I have witnessed an intellectual beating by an atheist upon a lesser intelligent believer.Materialists-anti christians-anti christ- only lead people away from God if they can and some do.
---earl on 12/14/09


Alan,As for your question,an atheist does not recognize Spirit influence in the universe.An atheist is a materialist involving his/herself in the use of scientific method as a standard for discovering any and all knowledge of the universe.As I said earlier evolution (as it is defined -as all materials and life being spontaneously appearing) -is God less and that being -spontaneous-it just is-it just happened that way.Both discount the existance of God and his will at work.The atheists or evolutionists I have encountered are both.God does not compute in their materialistic universe.
---earl on 12/14/09


Do any of you even realize that christianity is a bunch of pagan religions rolled into one? "Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
---cory on 12/14/09


Warwick,

There you go again! You either try to prove a point by putting words in someone's mouth, or giving words the meanings you need them to have to prove your point with your logic.

I didn't say anything of the sort.

Can you say that without being aware of the theory of evolution that no one would be an atheist?
---atheist on 12/14/09


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Cliff ... Thanks for that comment. It is I think the appropriate response to the person who said

"Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society"
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/14/09


Atheist are you saying a person can believe there is no God but still believe in a Creator?
---Warwick on 12/14/09

See the interview with Dawkins and Ben Stein. Dawkins,Darwinist and evo's speculate that aliens with superior knowledge may have seeded life. Perhaps with mutated Crystals. Ha. I tell you they are farther out there than any wildfire Pentecostal,when you sift them out as to the "Origin of the Species".
Ben Stein, has done a wonderful documentary and makes these atheist/darwidiot money grubbers look a scripturally unread and silly. It would be uplifting/funny if it were not for the false confidence they sadly die for.
---Trav on 12/14/09


As an atheist its very humorous to see Christians argue over something that they cannot prove whatsoever. Its like me coming up to you and saying that a huge fluffy magic rabbit made the universe in 6 days but there is no prove and then i tell you that you are wrong about the all the scientific prove you have and will be tortured for eternity becuase you don't believe it. The bible was written by primitive man thousands of years ago and was used as a tool to explain a world that was very confusing to them. Christianity is man made and is nothing more than a bunch of pagan religions rolled into one.
---cory on 12/14/09


Cliff an atheist is a person who says there is no God/god. That is what 'a theist' means. No speculation needed.

Therefore atheists by definition can only believe the universe and all therein came about by naturalistic means. Some atheists may not have thought through the consequences of their belief but nonetheless the only 'creative' process left for them is naturalistic evolution. Whether that is Neo-Darwinism or some other form of evolution is the only unknown.

We do not need to know all atheists as by calling themselves 'atheist' they do all the work for us! Too easy.
---Warwick on 12/14/09


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Alan, Unless you know "all" Atheists, you cannot answer this question with any degree of correctness! Speculation and educated guessing is all you,re going to get>
---1st_cliff on 12/14/09


Atheist are you saying a person can believe there is no God but still believe in a Creator?
---Warwick on 12/14/09


Reading these posts makes me wonder if Warwick lost most of his arguments to evolutionists who held him down and beat the tar out of him.

I would say that most atheists could care less about being evolutionists as most would tell you that they really do not care one way or the other.

It is hard to prove anything that happened millions of years ago with our planet except to observe what we can see elsewhere in the universe.
---Lee1538 on 12/14/09


Earl ... You say "A confessed atheist is basically an anti christ"

That's not really an answer to the question I asked, but it is an interesting comment.
Do you beleive in fairies? I guess the wnswer is "no".

But are you an anti-fairy? Again the answer must be "no" since you cannot be against something that does not exist.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/14/09


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Mima .... You say "The word all in the question is very defining, in that it includes every atheist"

I deliberately used the word "all", because on another blog someone said:

"Besides, all atheists are necessarily evolutionists, and as such are constrained to obey thier dictum of natural selection (survival of the fittest - kill or be killed), a dictum incompatible with caring for the rest of society"

I wanted to have others' opinions
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/14/09


Warwick:"They therefore must believe in evolution whether that be Neo-Darwinian evolution or some other form of it."

Warwick, you are talking about over a billion people. (Surprise! I am not the only one.) Have you personally interviewed all of them?

While you 'definition' and logic may satisfy you, it just ain't necessarily so.

But it is easier to fight a single imaginary demon of your own definition...isn't it?
---atheist on 12/14/09


Interestingly several college professors have received witnessing and pray for their salvation within my hearing.
---mima on 12/14/09


The word all in the question is very defining, in that it includes every atheist. And while I do not feel that I have answerable knowledge about this question I tend to believe that the answer is yes. (Let's practice a little diplomacy here)
---mima on 12/14/09


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An atheist by definition must believe the universe and all it contains came about by naturalistic, not supernatural causes. The second they believe it was created by an intelligent being they cease being an atheist, don't they.

They therefore must believe in evolution whether that be Neo-Darwinian evolution or some other form of it.
---Warwick on 12/14/09


No, Alan . . . there is human blob atheism, the belief system that atoms and molecules each have intelligence and speed to bunch themselves into stars, etc., when they pleased, locking human blobs of spiritual being within these bodies of molecules that control the humans. They enjoy playing humans into thinking they have control, by at times going along with human efforts for pleasure and avoiding pain. But it keeps turning out their human prisoners can't even figure out what the atoms and molecules will do. Because these molecules in weather and human bodies are more highly intelligent than weather people and doctors, etc. But there are atheists who do not believe this, though they can not prove this is not true.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/13/09


The atheists I have debated do not recognize a cosmic source-spirit that is conscious and possesses intelligence,character, nature and control.
Their current position is that energy is from no single source-it just is-an automatic response in the cosmology of the universe.
Lucifer,basically,from another useful book source, also believed that the universe was an automatic function and is not cultivated to maturity by an all powerful consciouness.
Genisis states "according to their kind"-meaning no transition steps.With evolution there is transition steps and drags along the Godless idea that all things are transpiring spontaneously.
A confessed atheist is basically an anti christ.
---earl on 12/13/09


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