ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

What Is Vicar Of Christ

One of the self-serving titles of the pope of Rome is "Vicar of Christ" what exactly does the title "vicar of Christ " referred too? Or in other words what does it mean?

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The Who Is Jesus Bible Quiz
 ---mima on 12/14/09
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



Ruben ... Tradition versus the Bible? Which is more likely to be a valid tradition?

---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/10

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thess 2:15)

"which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."( 1 Tim 3:16)

Both
---Ruben on 1/14/10


The bible teaches that it is the Bible that is the final authority.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


2Pe 1:20 Nasb for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

The Jewish people rejected JESUS for not following their tradtions.
---Samuel on 1/14/10


The tradition based on the words of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels ... for example "No one comes to the Father except through me"

or

The tradition started some time later ... eg. that you should pray through (or to?) Mary.

???

Surely, the actual words of Jesus are more likely to be the Truth than what some men have thought up later, and called tradition?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/10

And as you know Jesus words were not always written "and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive"(Acts 20:35) You can search all the Gospels and not find where Jesus said this!
---Ruben on 1/14/10


As previously stated Mima its nonsense at best and a lie from he pit of hell at worst.
---larry on 1/14/10


Ruben ... Tradition versus the Bible? Which is more likely to be a valid tradition?

The tradition based on the words of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels ... for example "No one comes to the Father except through me"

or

The tradition started some time later ... eg. that you should pray through (or to?) Mary.

???

Surely, the actual words of Jesus are more likely to be the Truth than what some men have thought up later, and called tradition?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/10




Vicarius is Latin, meaning substitute or deputy. A little review of the Apostolic Constitutions reveals this--

Bafianae (January 11, 1968), Decree of Paul VI elevating the Prefecture Apostolic of Bafia, Cameroon, to a Diocese:

Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LX (1968), n. 6, pp. 317-319. Libreria Editrice Vaticana. ISBN 8820960680, 9788820960681.

Adorandi Dei Filii Vicarius et Procurator, quibus numen aeternum summam Ecclesiae sanctae dedit, ...

[translation] As the worshipful Son of God's Vicar [or substitute] and Caretaker, to whom the eternal divine will has given the highest rank of the holy Church, ...

Straightforward-yes?
---BruceB on 1/13/10


PASTOR_JIM* The problem is that the RCC have 3 authorities: SCRIPTURE, TRADITION AND THE POPE. br>


If you mean Pope as Magisterium than yes!

PASTOR_JIM* SO THE POPE IS A HIGHER AUTHORITY THAN GOD, SINCE HE CAN OVERRIDE GOD AND HIS SCRIPTURES!

False.

PASTOR_JIM* So you can never use scripture with them since it is not the final authority to them.

Because scripture never makes that claim!

PASTOR_JIM *The word of God is LESS THAN 1/3 VALUE.

FRIGHTENING ISN'T IT!!!
(At least for them!)

What frightening is that scripture tells us to stand firm to Traditions by word or written and that not everything Jesus did or say a book would be able to hold, but yet you disagree.
---Ruben on 1/12/10


The problem is that the RCC have 3 authorities: SCRIPTURE, TRADITION AND THE POPE. It is in their decree of faith.

Any ONE of these can trumpt the other ... ESPECIALLY THE POPE!

SO THE POPE IS A HIGHER AUTHORITY THAN GOD, SINCE HE CAN OVERRIDE GOD AND HIS SCRIPTURES!

So when you argue with a RC and present point blank scripture (i.e Jesus Brothers and Sisters) it has no meaning to them. They can just say... Well in 1436 Pope SO & So decreed he didn't and Mary is an eternal Virgin and Co- redeemer etc etc.

So you can never use scripture with them since it is not the final authority to them.

The word of God is LESS THAN 1/3 VALUE.


FRIGHTENING ISN'T IT!!!
(At least for them!)
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/11/10


I am not sure what a vicar is referring to. I belief it means an ambassador or representative for Christ. The catholic religion refers to their so-called pope as vicar and person of authority, as for me I only have one person I call Father and ask for forgiveness for sins as the Holy Bible teaches. The catholics have a form of godliness but do not uphold the gospel of Jesus Christ. The just shall live by faith, as the Holy Bible says, not their mass, mary, sacraments, relics, or whatever else the catholics believe in to be saved. We need to contend for the faith of Jesus Christ.
---dee9833 on 1/9/10


Rhonda * when one has the Spirit of Truth and worship The Father in Heaven IN TRUTH within them they understand Scripture is the inspired word of God

And the one's who has the spirit of TRUTH and worship the Father in heaven in TRUTH and Gods Holy Spirit DWELLING within them understand that scripture is not the sole authorithy in Faith and Morals.

Rhonda * God TELLS True Christians the Bible is complete through scripture

And God thru scripture tell us "which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."(1 Tim 3:15)


Rhonda * Scripture was given to Apostles through God and is perfect and complete

Give book, chapter and verse where he did just that?
---Ruben on 1/9/10




I must say that I do admire the RCC in one respect. They are upfront and unabashed about what they believe. Whereas the Protestants are hyprocritical in what the REALLY believe vs. what they SAY they believe (which they ALL say we follow "scripture only" ...RIGHT!!!)

ONE EXAMPLE (They're all Hyprocrites)...

The Lutherans by their written decree say the Pope is the Antichrist and comdems the RCs for making the Pope Infallible. However: they have their ONE POPE who THEY believe is infallible. Martin Luther is never ever to be questioned. He is the final word. I believe having several Popes is better than one Pope who died over 500yrs ago. At least the RCC had Vatican II.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/8/10


How do you think you have the Bible? God never told us which books belong in the Bible!
****

when one has the Spirit of Truth and worship The Father in Heaven IN TRUTH and Spirit by Gods Holy Spirit DWELLING within them they understand Scripture is the inspired word of God

God TELLS True Christians the Bible is complete through scripture

Scripture was given to Apostles through God and is perfect and complete

ONLY mortal reasoning men who USE religion as a weapon distort dismiss and DISCREDIT Gods Holy Word by creating their own version ...for example the catechism
---Rhonda on 1/8/10


Ruben, you are back to square one. No matter how wrong the RCC is, they made the Bible, and since they made the Bible, they can interpret the Bible the way they want. And since now you say that when Jesus said to the Apostles about binding, it was not for the Apostles but for the RCC, because they speak truthful and everyone else is false. While in this state of mind Ruben you will never find the real Truth. Pope Gregory must not have gotten the binding so must have lied to so many people and neither any of those others who also lied about Mary, but not Pius. How convenient to have the answers for everything.
---MarkV. on 1/8/10


There are many who think that the Roman Catholic Popes were inspired by GOD in certain of their declarations. They are very careful to put in only some of their declarations when they spoke ExCathedra. For many made declarations about vampires, werewolves and executing wars against Protestants, Muslims and those who did not pay their taxes to the church.

Since I as a protestant hold a higher view of scripture not making it equal to tradition that is no proof at all.

The ecumenical church was not just the Roman Catholic church in spite of what some want people to believe.
---Samuel on 1/8/10


Ruben, she was a sinner. You say he saved her from original sin, depending on who said that. God never did.
Here is where that came from and it was not God for it was not written by God,
---MarkV. on 1/7/10

I believe it was , as the Angel was sent by God. Besides didn't Jesus say to the Apostles " Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.(Mt 18:17-18)


How do you think you have the Bible? God never told us which books belong in the Bible!
---Ruben on 1/7/10


Ruben, she was a sinner. You say he saved her from original sin, depending on who said that. God never did.
Here is where that came from and it was not God for it was not written by God, Dec. 1854 by direct orders of Pope Pius IX,
"We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which hold's that the most blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful" it was revealed by the Pope. Not God.
---MarkV. on 1/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


Markv* Mary like all descendants of Adam are born in sin. If she was without sin, then her parents had to be without sin, and their parents and so on.

She like John the Baptist could be taken care at their Mother womb " he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother womb" (Lk 1:15).

Mark V* She herself admitted she was a sinner by calling Jesus, her Savior.

Yes, because Jesus save her from original sin and not beacuse she was a sinner!
---Ruben on 1/7/10


Thats really reaching Reuben. Being blessed and full of grace by giving birth to the Son of God is quite an honor but it doesnt make her sinless.

The Spirit of Christ lives in each believer and we still sin.
---JackB on 1/7/10


Scripture tell us "For he that is mighty hath done to me great things,"(LK 1:48)

"For with God nothing shall be impossible." (LK 1:37)

But yet you say not possible!
---Ruben on 1/7/10


Ruben, Mary is not a sinner anymore but was a sinner before she believed in the Lord. When the Angel Gabriel came to her and called her "Rejoice" which does mean "full of Grace," is a term used of all believers in Eph. 1:6, where it is translated "accepted" these portray's Mary as a recipient, not a dispenser, of divine grace. Mary like all descendants of Adam are born in sin. If she was without sin, then her parents had to be without sin, and their parents and so on. She herself admitted she was a sinner by calling Jesus, her Savior. And only sinners need a Savior.
---MarkV. on 1/7/10


Thats really reaching Reuben. Being blessed and full of grace by giving birth to the Son of God is quite an honor but it doesnt make her sinless.

The Spirit of Christ lives in each believer and we still sin.
---JackB on 1/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


Pastor Jim* MARY WAS A SINNER!!!

Not according to Scripture and Reason:

Christ who is the Light can have no relations with darkness, Scripture says "Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial?" (2Cor 6:14-15).
The Angel Gabriel confirms Mary W/O sin at the greeting "Full of Grace"(LK 1:28), in Jer 1:5 God says "before you were born I consecrated you" in John the Baptist it reads "he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother womb" (Lk 1:15). If God chose to sanctify these men in the womb of thier Mothers, how much more would He free Mary from all sin from the moment of her conception to be the Mother of God?
---Ruben on 1/6/10


What's wrong in Honoring Mary? ---Ruben on 1/5/10

Nothing wrong with honoring Mary.

I HONOR MARY !!!

In fact I think she is one of the most important figures in all of scripture.

BUT... I DO NOT WORSHIP MARY!!!

I also do not worship other great figures in scripture I highly admire (i.e. Paul Abraham, Peter, Moses, Issiah, DanieL, etc etc etc)

MARY WAS A SINNER!!!

AS WAS ALL OF US. NONE OF THE PEOPLE I LIKE IN SCRIPTURE DID ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN GREATNESS.

THEY HAD NO GREATNESS!!!

IT SIMPLY WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD USING THEM.

Not one of the characters in scripture were rightouse because of themselves. Just look at Saul. They were usually losers by earthly standards.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/5/10


I'm not Anti-Catholic, I just dont believe in praying to a dead woman who was a sinner.

I do believe there are children of God in the Catholic church that honor Christ instead of Mary.
---JackB on 1/5/10


She is in heaven therefore is not a sinner!

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."(James 5:16)

What's wrong in Honoring Mary?

"Behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed"( Luke 1:48)
---Ruben on 1/5/10


I'm not Anti-Catholic, I just dont believe in praying to a dead woman who was a sinner.

I do believe there are children of God in the Catholic church that honor Christ instead of Mary.
---JackB on 1/5/10


Send a Free Birthday Ecard


Dittos Rhonda!

I always get amused how cults go to such absurd theories to defend their traditions.

I get the most amusement from the RCC.

---pastor_jim on 1/4/10

I also get amused when Anti-Catholic's want everyone to believe in thier own interpretation of scripture!
---Ruben on 1/5/10


Ruben, first, happy new year to you and your family in Texas. Second, faith is "not" the greatest, it is one of the gifts, that's why Love is. The nature of God is Love. The whole context of 1 Cor. 13 is talking about that kind of Love.
Paul was reminding the Corinthians that Love was more precious then all the gifts. The Corintians were miss using the gift of tongues which is mentioned in 1 Cor. 12 and 1 Cor. 14. That is why the chapter of Love was put as 13. Another reason Paul said that those gifts would vanish away, but Love never fails. Hope that helps.
---MarkV. on 1/5/10


Dittos Rhonda!

I always get amused how cults go to such absurd theories to defend their traditions.

I get the most amusement from the RCC.


---pastor_jim on 1/4/10


Because then she would be consider a Adultress, thus then stone to death, praise God for Joesph!
*****

except to be a "perpetual virgin" then one CANNOT MARRY otherwise they have lied to to each other and God

further ...God would not have Joseph and Mary break a commandment to serve his purpose KNOWING purpose of marriage is due benevolence ...in other words sexual relations ...this is the SACRED BOND between a man and wife ...to withhold this sacred act in marriage is likened to robbing from your spouse

Joseph married Mary who was to remain a virgin until Christs birth at such time they came to KNOW one another and the blessings of a VERY fruitful marriage as Christ has many brothers and sisters - AMEN
---Rhonda on 1/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Verses


Scripture Galatians 2:16

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
---mima on 12/28/09


First of all, you need to know what Paul is referring to as the LAW?

In the same book of Galatians he writes:

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love

1 Cor 13:13 "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity."

Shouldn't Faith be the greatest?
---Ruben on 1/4/10


If Mary was a perpetual Virgin. Then why did Joseph marry her?

Can any RC anwser that one as well???
---pastor_jim on 1/1/10


Because then she would be consider a Adultress, thus then stone to death, praise God for Joesph!
---Ruben on 1/4/10


If Mary was a perpetual Virgin. Then why did Joseph marry her?

Can any RC anwser that one as well???
---pastor_jim on 1/1/10


Alan, I have to correct my statement somewhat. It is very important that I do. What I meant in my answer to you was,
"That we are saved by Grace through faith. Not as I stated before, when I said we are saved by faith" That is very important to not get it mixed up. God saves us by His grace, and He uses faith (one of the many components of salvation) as the channel by which He grants salvation. The Saving power of faith resides thus not in itself, but in the Almighty Savior on whom it rest. It is not, strictly speaking, even faith in Christ that saves, but that Christ saves through faith.
---MarkV. on 1/1/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Arthritis


The so-called "Catholic bashing questions" are often ask in order to get those who are blinded to begin to think about what the RCC teaches them to believe. Just last week in prison ministry I heard a man make the following statement. When I came to prison I was a Catholic. And I begin to read the Bible out of boredom and very shortly I realized that the RCC does not adhere to or teach what the Bible says. After some time of prayer and meditation I asked the Lord to show me the truth, he did, and today I'm not Catholic. So I asked all Catholics to carefully consider what they've been taught.
---mima on 12/31/09


"PASTOR" JIM ... "Why do all these Mary Ghost stories, she appears as a white European. Just like the Michelangelo paintings.
When she was in fact a Semite Jew.
Can any RC explain this?


A totally irrelevant question.

What true pastor tries to stir up hatred?
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/31/09


Alan, you are correct in your statement of which you said,
"Mima ... Justification by faith alone, with no resultant works, is a non-scriptural cop-out"
That is a genuine statement, "with no resultant works"

Just as professed compassion without action is phony, the kind of faith that is without works is merey empty profession, not saving faith.
But works does not save, faith does. Works is the results of true genuine saving faith. The evidence.
---MarkV. on 12/30/09


Why do all these Mary Ghost stories, she appears as a white European. Just like the Michelangelo paintings.

When she was in fact a Semite Jew.

Can any RC explain this?
---PASTOR_JIM on 12/28/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Asthma


Mima ... Justification by faith alone, with no resultant works, is a non-scriptural cop-out

Read Jesus' words!!

He says we must love our neighbour as ourselves, and shows the Samaritan doing domething

Jesus will reject those who don't do what He says we should do. (Matthew 25)

And read James 2 verse 17 & 18.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/28/09


It is Faith and Works!
---Ruben on 12/24/09

The statement as evidenced by Scripture is completely wrong!!!!

Scripture Galatians 2:16

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
---mima on 12/28/09


Ruben, Scriptures you gave are concerning those who claim they are save but show no fruits concerning that faith. Works are the fruits of a true believer. If they don't give anything to the poor or help others in someone way, their evidence judges them.
You defending the RCC, That is very commandable of the RCC, but when you take the Churches stance against Scripture you too show your evidence. There is no question as to why Christ is second or third in the RCC. Mostly all saint's and Mary have taken His throne. Until you admit the truth, you will always be wrong. It's not hard to admit the Truth, I did and so did many others. But it takes faith to admit the Truth. And Faith comes from the Word of God, not the RCC's.
---MarkV. on 12/25/09


Merry Christmas Rhonda, and yes there are many different answers from Catholics but only one from the Catholic church. Go to the RCC's own web site and the definition is clear. Sorry if I did not make my point more clearly.
I agree with you, Eloy, MarkV and reject this as little more than idolatry, but the answer my friend is elementary.

We just don't like the answer.
---larry on 12/24/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Cholesterol


The RCC teaches that good works get you out of time in purgatory where people have to suffer for their sins and have them burned out of them. Of course if you are rich enough you can pay your way or a relatives way out. The Papacy still has indulgencies.
---Samuel on 12/24/09


Where is the documents that the RCC teaches that good works get you out of purgatory?
---Ruben on 12/24/09


MarkV *And they might say they don't worship idols and that the RCC is against that, but you can see all over the world the Idol worship by individuals.

Unless you know what in their hearts and only God knows and the RCC is against worshipping idols

MarkV* Hey, I was one who had my own saint to worship. I should know, my favorite was St. Martin de Porras.

Unless you told this saint to have mercy on me and to forgive me of my sins, then you were worshipping otherwise you weren't.

MarkV* I saw Jesus in San Juan Texas in a glass coffin all by Himself, and thousands on their knees lighting candles and praying to San Juan.

Perhaps if you have gotten there a half hour earlier they were all at the glass coffin!
---Ruben on 12/24/09


Justification by faith alone was the most important since works never saved anyone .Mark V

Really :

Romans 2:6-8, 13 For he will render to every man according to his works:

Works are directly tied with eternal life


Matthew 25:34-36 (RSV)`Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, FOR I was hungry and you gave me food,

You are saved "because" of the good works you did.


Revelation 2:5 " repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent."

If we do not do the works, we lose our Salvation.

It is Faith and Works!
---Ruben on 12/24/09


The RCC teaches that Baptism makes a person born again. Which is one of the reasons they baptize infants so they can get them into heaven. Since being born with the sin of Adam makes them lost. Some used to teach they went to Limbo.

The RCC teaches that good works get you out of time in purgatory where people have to suffer for their sins and have them burned out of them. Of course if you are rich enough you can pay your way or a relatives way out. The Papacy still has indulgencies.
---Samuel on 12/24/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


Alan, you just said what another thing that is very important. "It might not be a papal teaching,"
That is another good point. Which takes us to Idol worship. Which to me is the greatest fault in the RCC. I say the greatest because when that began to happen, Jesus took a back seat to many. And they might say they don't worship idols and that the RCC is against that, but you can see all over the world the Idol worship by individuals. Hey, I was one who had my own saint to worship. I should know, my favorite was St. Martin de Porras. You don't see the Church removing the saints or Mary, in fact I saw Jesus in San Juan Texas in a glass coffin all by Himself, and thousands on their knees lighting candles and praying to San Juan.
---MarkV. on 12/24/09


Ruben ... You query "Gregory the Great said that unbaptized babies go straight to hell"

I don't know about sources, but it is still the belief among a lot of Roman Catholics that this happens.

Thus, if a child is born very ill, there is a great panic to get the priest thers as soon as possible. And sometimes they pretend that a stillborn child is alive, so that itr can be baptised

It may not be papal teaching, but it is believed by most laity, used by clergy, and not discouraged by the authorities of the RCC
---alancurrie8566_of_uk on 12/24/09


Mark V*Ruben, I didn't say he was perfect did I? What he is known for exposing the conduct of all Popes. Justification by faith alone was the most important since works never saved anyone and it's what the church was teaching and still is.

No, you did not nor did I! My question to you is, how do you determine that he is correct on faith alone but wrong on Jesus having no brothers, infant baptism and the Real Presense, and both of you go on Scripture Alone?....Cont
---Ruben on 12/23/09


Ruben, I didn't say he was perfect did I? What he is known for exposing the conduct of all Popes. Justification by faith alone was the most important since works never saved anyone and it's what the church was teaching and still is. Making money on indulgances to save relatives who were supposely in purgatory. All acts of works for salvation. Exposing the crimes the popes committed and even called them the spirit of the antichrist. And every time someone said anything or complained about something the popes had them killed or excommunicated to shut them up. You refuse to believe how great the acts of those men were since they opened the Bible to everyones so that they could see for themselves. Something you haven't seen yet.
---Mark_V. on 12/22/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


>2Ti 2:15 Study to show "thyself" approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Vicar of Christ- n
pope: in Roman Catholicism, the pope
reverend, priest, cleric, minister, parson

Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant forever: holy and reverend is his name. ANYONE titled reverend would be suspect to innspection, sheep in wolves clothing among MANY scriptureal warrents...

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth forever.
---steven-rem7000 on 12/21/09


MarkV* Great man like Luther and so many others who exposed the church and the Pope for who they really were.

Great man, then why do you ignore his teaching on the Real presense, Infant baptism and Jesus had no brothers.

MarkV *Even today many are coming out because they too are learning the Truth of Scripture.

Check again, there is more the other way around!

MarkV* The Popes orders always change depending on who was in charge. No clear interpretation of Scripture just the opinions of whatever pope was in charge.

Examples please!

MarkV* Gregory the Great said that unbaptized babies go straight to hell


Sources please!
---Ruben on 12/21/09


Part 2:

||Lucius III anathematized the Waldensians in 1184, allowing their deaths.||"Contrary to what is often said, he did not institute the Inquisition, which was not created until the reign of Pope Gregory IX in 1234."


\\Innocent III (1198-1216) ordered the burning of some Franciscans.\\Cannot be verified.

||Sixtus IV was involved in a vendetta with the Medici's. Also, the Spanish Inquisition.|| Are you saying that Sixtus IV started the Spanish Inquisition? This was actually something totally independent of both popes and Spanish crown.

||Alexander VI! Cardinal Orsini, Cardinal Michiel April 1503, and J. da Santa Croce.|| I'm not too sure what you're saying here.
---Cluny on 12/21/09


Ruben, I do not forget that there was great men that came out of the RCC. Great man like Luther and so many others who exposed the church and the Pope for who they really were. Even today many are coming out because they too are learning the Truth of Scripture. The Popes orders always change depending on who was in charge. No clear interpretation of Scripture just the opinions of whatever pope was in charge.
Gregory the Great said that unbaptized babies go straight to hell and suffer there for all eternity. Innocent 1 (401-17) wrote to the Council of Milevis and Gelasius 1 (492-6) wrote to the Bishops of Picenum that babies were obliged to receive communion. If they died baptized but uncommunicated, they would go straight to hell.
---MarkV. on 12/20/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


Part 1.I've done some research on what you have posted here.

\\Sergius III ordered the deaths of Leo V and Antipope Christopher, 904.\\This is the only thing you said I could verify.

||Boniface VII ordered the death of Benedict VI, June 974.|| Since he was an Antipope, this cannot be blamed on the Popes.

||Benedict VIII ordered the death of Sergius IV, May 1012. He used his troops to attack the rival Crescenti family. He ordered the execution of those Jews who were believed to be responsible for the Good Friday 1021, earthquake.|| None of this I could verify verified.

Part 2 to follow.
---Cluny on 12/19/09


\\Cluny:
Sergius III ordered the deaths of Leo V and Antipope Christopher, 904. \\

This is hardly hundreds of thousands.
---Cluny on 12/19/09


Glenn, your right. It has always been, either the Pope is in control or the Pope is a puppet and the Church is in control. Most through killing and murder. I had read after the death of Liberious in 366, two factions elected a successor. Ursinus was one pope, Damascus was the other. After a lot of street fighting, Ursinus followers locked themselves in St. Mary's basilica, known as "Our Lady of the Snow" Damascus attack the basilica and all inside were killed. Ursinus was sent into exile and Damascus took over. He stressed his spiritual authority as "successor to St. Peter" a claim never known by any of the Fathers of the Church, and in 382 the "Thou are Peter" began to become important.
---MarkV. on 12/19/09


Glenn #2, we also have to remember that many great men came from that church. Within all the murdering and killings and so forth, there was many good men inside doing God's work, and many times they could not say a thing or else they too would be found guilty and Killed. I believe the things done inside and outside the church by the church were terrible things. The archives are fill with so much mystery, books and material, and money that no one can touch or have access to. They hide things from everyone else that could be so helpful to everyone, but if they did not hide those things, the truth would come out, and they would be exposed, yet with only the history we know they are expose.
---MarkV. on 12/19/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


A vicar is a substitute in office.
Cluny:
Sergius III ordered the deaths of Leo V and Antipope Christopher, 904.
Boniface VII ordered the death of Benedict VI, June 974.
Benedict VIII ordered the death of Sergius IV, May 1012. He used his troops to attack the rival Crescenti family. He ordered the execution of those Jews who were believed to be responsible for the Good Friday 1021, earthquake.
Lucius III anathematized the Waldensians in 1184, allowing their deaths.
Innocent III (1198-1216) ordered the burning of some Franciscans.
Sixtus IV was involved in a vendetta with the Medici's. Also, the Spanish Inquisition.
Alexander VI! Cardinal Orsini, Cardinal Michiel April 1503, and J. da Santa Croce.
---Glenn on 12/18/09


But this is not true for many Popes in the past. Many were murderers, had mulitple women not as wives since they could not offically marry.
---Samuel on 12/18/09

Yes that is a true fact, but what does that prove, except that they like so many in the bible were not faithful to God graces. Men Like Adam, Moses, Noah and David who by the way was a murder and a adulterous like some of these Popes. In the NT men like Judas and even Peter the first Pope who Jesus said get behind me Satan. But what gets left out is that there were many great Men who were good examples of christians virtue and perseverance as the Pope, a fact very easily forgotten by critics of the papacy.
---Ruben on 12/18/09


\\Those put to death under the rule of some popes is in the hundreds of thousands. This can be proved from history.
---Samuel on 12/18/09\\

Can you give the names of a couple of these people and the names of the popes who ordered their executions?

Years would be nice, too--but the main thing is specific names.
---Cluny on 12/18/09


John Paul 2 and Benedict do not seem to be wicked men. I can lay no charge of wickedness to their door.

But this is not true for many Popes in the past. Many were murderers, war mongers who killed off entire towns, had mulitple women not as wives since they could not offically marry. Some were less wicked just stealing all they could. Many of the popes were appointed by Emperiors and Kings to use politically.

Those put to death under the rule of some popes is in the hundreds of thousands. This can be proved from history.
---Samuel on 12/18/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


\\After all how can a wicked person be the stand in for JESUS.

We are all called to be ambassodors for JESUS.
---Samuel on 12/17/09
\\

Are you saying that John Paul II or Benedict XVI are wicked?

If so, then are you claiming that God has given you to see into their hearts?
---Cluny on 12/17/09


Yes this question is easily answered.

But the claim is denied or used to be by Protestants. After all how can a wicked person be the stand in for JESUS.

We are all called to be ambassodors for JESUS.
---Samuel on 12/17/09


Mima doesn't believe this nonsense and was just asking the question to start a fight.

The answer could have been found with 5 minutes of research on the RCC's own web site. Good grief.
*****

really?

is this why many professing catholics give so many different answers?

some say he was given the HEAD of the church

Vicars meaning is - IN PLACE OF

this contradicts PLAIN scripture that states CHRIST is head of the church and no mortal man is head of the Spiritual Church

vicar is meant to be "in place of" and the pope truly believes he is a "god" on earth

RCC is a counterfiet christiandom

Eternal Life is ONLY through Christ Jesus not a pompous MORTAL pope
---Rhonda on 12/16/09


There is one Christ, and there is the Christ-follower: but there is no vicar of Christ, which is idolatry.
---Eloy on 12/17/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


What a privilege it is to serve the living God: a Vicar, who is an "assistance" or one who substitutes for the rector]. Archbishops, bishops,and rectors are all priests. The argument for the episcopalian system is not that it is found in the N.T., but that it is a natural outgrowth of the development of the church which began in the N.T.,and it is not forbidden by the N.T., E. A. Litton writes, "No order of Diocesan Bishops appears in the N.T.", But immediately adds, the evidence is in favour of the supposition that Episcopacy sprang from the church itself, and by a natural process, and that it was sanctioned by Saint John, the last survivor of the Apostles.
---Catherine on 12/16/09


to tom2

fair enough. this topic has many other subtopics that are questionable. nothing personal
---jim on 12/16/09


jim,I never said I agreed with the concept of having a pope,what I did was answer a question.
---tom2 on 12/15/09


Why does the RCC have so many ghost stories of Mary?
---Pastor_Jim on 12/15/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


The Vicar of Christ is another name for the Pope denoting his supremacy over the church of Christ and thus bears the power and priviledge bestowed over the great commission. It comes from the errant interpretation that Peter is the rock on which the church was built and that Peter was the first Pope of Rome (Matt 16:18-19).

Mima doesn't believe this nonsense and was just asking the question to start a fight.

The answer could have been found with 5 minutes of research on the RCC's own web site. Good grief.
---larry on 12/14/09


tom2
the pope has the authority to make decisions on behalf for god? there is a danger for abuse of power. during the middle ages, when people disagreed with the pope, they were called heretic, ex-communicated & suffered the consequences. and what about other decisions of the pope like mary, purgatory, idols? no can question those 'decisions'?
---jim on 12/14/09


I believe it means he is the leader of the church on earth,in the physical abscence of christ,and has authority to make decisions for Gods chosen as christ would.
---tom2 on 12/14/09


if vicar means 'a substitute' then does that lead him away from the true savior? does that mean 'another christ'?

this is just a brain storming not intend to be personal.
---jim on 12/14/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


Vicar Of Christ was first used in 14th or 15th Century. A Vicar is one serving as a substitute or agent. An ecclesiastical agent as,a member of the clergy who excercises a broad pastoral responsibility as the representative of a prelate.
---Darlene_1 on 12/14/09

Which by the way is Biblicial:

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18 . . . Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven, if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
---Ruben on 12/14/09


1st Tim 2 v 5. There is NO substitute.
2nd Cor 11 v's 14-14. The devil is doing to root out God & to replace Jesus Christ with the anti-christ. For r-catholocism the mother apostate church is part of it. Rev 17 v's 4-6 & with other scriptures.
---Lawrence on 12/14/09


Actually, "Vicar of Christ" was first applied to the Roman Emperor in Byzantium.

If you're talking about the pope, mima, the preferred title among Eastern Catholics is "Vicar of St. Peter," as "Vicar of Christ" implies that Christ is absent, which He is not.

BTW, mima, why do you love to play BTC so much?
---Cluny on 12/14/09


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.