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Can You Lose Salvation

What do these Scriptures mean? John 10:28"And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29-My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand"

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 ---mima on 1/10/10
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Mima, We have to read the entire context from which came John 10:28-29. The preceeding Verse 27 must be added to get the whole stipulation. Verse 27 "My sheep HEAR My Voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW Me:"Gordon**

Gordon, WHERE in these verses do you see the words ONLY IF you do this or that. It's not there. So why are you ADDING to Jesus words something He never said?

Only those who are crucified with Christ and raised a New Creation IN CHRIST can hear His voice. He is our head, and we are His body.

AND what Jesus says to us is, Christ is our LIFE....not some elementary principle of keeping the law. No one CAN keep the LAW.

What do you hear Jesus saying to you?
---kathr4453 on 1/18/10


Gordon, A-men.
---Eloy on 1/18/10


Mima, We have to read the entire context from which came John 10:28-29. The preceeding Verse 27 must be added to get the whole stipulation. Verse 27 "My sheep HEAR My Voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW Me:" Verses 28-29 "And I give unto them Eternal Life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My Hand. My Father Which gave them Me, is Greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's Hand." In order to be on the Road to Eternal Life, we Saints have to be HEARING His Voice, and we have to be actively FOLLOWING Him. If we aren't doing these things, we are not really Heaven-bound.
---Gordon on 1/18/10


Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

This sure sounds like someone losing their salvation to me.
---Gary on 1/17/10

Gary, please read these verses in context. These Jews, still under the LAW, were told that CHRIST and HIS sacrifice was the END of the Law. That's the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH! This KNOWLEDGE is Christ CRUCIFIED and RISEN. Our identification with Christ and His death have REPLACED keeping the 10 commandments..which only kept the FLESH in check.....NOW our FLESH is CRUCIFIED with Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/10


Salvation cannot be lost. Once a person or ELECT is saved, no matter what degree of sin he commited, He will return for repentance.
Like David, his heart turned to the Lord. "No one can pluck" is for the ELECT.

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect? It is God that justifieth. verse 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

It is clear, that Romans 8:33-39 nothing can separate Christ Love for them, nothing can pluck them....HIS ELECT
---ROSALIE on 1/17/10




Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

This sure sounds like someone losing their salvation to me.
---Gary on 1/17/10


Romans 8:3-4 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Yes, we have to agree with Paul9594, that the old Torah law simply could not compete with the grace God has given to those who believe.

Again, those who rely on the law for their justification are under a curse since they cannot abide by all the law prescribes.

Ga 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, ,,,

But the apostasy will not reveal that.
---Lee1538 on 1/17/10


Mima, there are many cases of individuals whom have started out on the right road with Jesus, and then afterward they have chosen to leave Jesus and "backslide" back into their own selfish lives. Recall how Lot's wife was told not to look back? for noone can set their hand to the plow with the Lord, and then look back in desire for their old life again without God and remain with him. Yes indeed. You can use your gift of freewill or freedom of choice to either obey and continue on with Jesus Christ the whole way up to glory, or else you can use your gift of freewill or freedom of choice to disobey and leave Jesus to fall from his grace and backslide into sin and be separated to condemnation.
---Eloy on 1/17/10


This means that noone can take away your relationship that you have with Jesus Christ from you, for only you and you yourself alone can destroy your personal relationship that you have with Jesus Christ by you choosing sin over him. God is not mocked: just as Judas Iscariot has lost his salvation through betraying his relationship with Jesus, and many choose to forfeit their salvation from God through betrayal to God: for God plays no games when it comes to obedience to his command, if you wnat salvation you will obey him, and if you want sin then you will disobey him onto your own perdition and separation.
---Eloy on 1/17/10


kathr4453:

U said:
1. Did the blood of bulls and goats make anyone PERFECT?///

No, they were only a type, illustration of Christ,the Isralites faith on these illustrations of Christ, saved them!

This what the apostasy didn't teach u.

U Said:
3. Christ's Blood has Redeemed us, washed us, PURCHASED us, purged our conscience...again even the Old didn't do that!

My answer:
Your incorrect!! If the Old didn't save then Abel, Seth, Abraham, Isaac,Jacob, Moses, David weren't saved!

Read Torah so that u may qualify to surround men!


---Paul9594 on 1/17/10




Paul, you continue to teach Torah and the blood sacrifice, and mercy within the law. However, there are some very IMPORTANT issues you overlook.

Hebrews 10 is an excellent place to start.

1. Did the blood of bulls and goats make anyone PERFECT? Ans..NO!

2. With Jesus, it only took ONCE, and with that PERFECTION came. You see, in Christ, we are sanctified through the body of Christ once and for all. We are PERFECT in Him. He is now the SURETY of the New Covenant. Do you know what SURETY means?

3. Christs Blood has Redeemed us, washed us, PURCHASED us, purged our conscience...again even the Old didn't do that!
---kathr4453 on 1/16/10


Samuel - while all the covenants God made can be for our benefit in understanding the will of God, not all the covenant were made to us but to nations & individuals.

Individuals such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, etc. and only to the nation of Israel.

Each covenant has its own tenets and not all of them are requried of us. For instance the Abrahamic covenant mandated circumcision, the Mosaic covenant laws involving sacrifices, feasts & the Sabbath, but you will not find all of those tenets in the New Covenant.

Furthermore, it should be clear to any reader that the Mosaic law was not imposed on Gentile believers. Read Acts 15.
---Lee1538 on 1/15/10


The New Covenant is not a rehash of the Mosaic Covenant but all the Covenants GOD made with man were each incorporated into the Next covenant. Which is why the Covenant made with Adam and Eve was fulfilled to us in JESUS CHRIST. Each one builds on the other. The Sacrifice of the Moaic Covenant pointed to JESUS and spoke of him in symbols. JESUS is there concealed.

But in the New Covenant JESUS is revealed. Which is why all scripture is for doctrine and teaching.
---Samuel on 1/15/10


//My reasoning based on solid illustrations >> OF << Scriptures, NOT commentaries.

Solid as a spider web...

Commentaries you hate because they are written by the teachers the Lord gave His church, but you are not teachable preferring to create your own customized religion by which you can pass judgment on those who know much more than you could possibly ever achieve.
---Lee1538 on 1/15/10


Lee1538:

///You mean like Genesis 26:5 where you maintain without any questions whatsoever that Abraham observed the Mosaic law given centuries later?///

My reasoning based on solid illustrations >> OF << Scriptures, NOT commentaries.
Abel in Gen. 4 sin offering, according to Lev. 4:32-35 of Mt. Sinai!!
Noah in Genesis 8:20, knowing the differences, sacrifices to the Father, ONLY THE CLEAN ANIMALS AS IN >>> THE TORAH <<
There is Jacob altars worship.
There is Onan who knew Torah. In Gen 38:6-8, having duty to produce offspring for dead son by living brother according to Torah!
The RIGHTEOUS considered Torah honorable:Joseph, Joshua, David, Moses,
How does Torah being good IN Word, turn BAD?
---Paul9594 on 1/14/10


Paul9594 - At salvation one is not grafted into 'renewed' covenant with the House of Israel but into a New Covenant unlike the Old Covenant God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

Hebrews 8:8 ...I will establish a NEW (not renewed) covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, NOT NOT like the covenant I made with their fathers...out of the land of Egypt.

It is an apostate doctrine that speaks of a "renewed" covenant - merely a re-hash of the Old Covenant made at Mt. Sinai. It is certainly not part of that "faith once and for all delivered unto the saints". Jude 3
---Lee1538 on 1/14/10


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Paul9594

Re: Acts 15:21

This verse follows the decision made at the Jerusalem council that Gentiles need not keep the Mosaic law. They were required only to abstain from things contaminated by idols, from fornication, from blood & things strangled (15:20).

It is clear the Sabbath meetings where Moses was read were synagogues which had been established 'from ancient times' during the dispersions, certainly do not fit the early Christian assemblies which often met in houses. Again, the antagonism among Jews & Gentiles would not have permitted mutual participation.

The church has its own instruction and did not need Jewish synagogues which were often hostile toward Chrisians.
---Lee1538 on 1/14/10


//Should we begin setting foundational doctrine based on "ONE" Scripture?

You mean like Genesis 26:5 where you maintain without any questions whatsoever that Abraham observed the Mosaic law given centuries later?

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ro 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.

Ga 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

When are you going to consent to the words of the Spirit of Christ?
---Lee1538 on 1/14/10


Kahtr4453:
U asked:
///If SIN didn't need to be PUNISHED, then there was no need for Christ to take our punishment.///

I NEVER said that sin doesn't need to be punished.

This the whole reason for the Priests and sacrifices in the law, to show our need for atonement with Christ only!

I SAID the punishment for sin need not always be applied, mercy/grace can be applied,this is part of the Law!

Women teaching the apostasy of our day, do not qualify to surround men.

Please study the Torah, so that you may surround men in positions now allowed in the past! Jeremiah 31:22. The headship still remains with men, the 144,000. Well this is another long subject!
---Paul9594 on 1/14/10


Kathr4453:
U posted:
///Romans 4...David said, BLESSED are those who's sin are forgiven.....nothing here about Keeping the Law...///

Should we begin setting foundational doctrine based on "ONE" Scripture?

Romans 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:///

Nothing here about Faith, Grace... lets void them?

Should I void faith, grace, in the same way you just justified voiding Law?

Please read the Torah, that you may surround men, with the approval of The Father. Judgment begins in the House of The Father. 1 Peter 4:17.

How many different doctrines, denominations within Christianity? Can a house divided stand?
---Paul9594 on 1/14/10


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Kathr4453:

///Guess what Paul, Jesus did forgive before he went to the Cross.
You seem to be upset that God can forgive sin.///

No, I teach about the MERCY within the Law, THE sacrifices showing the power of HIS shed blood to even forgive sins, as taught by the Law. Others teach the Law is bondage, done away with, of the flesh etc.

Assuming, Christ did not keep Torah because He did not have the woman be stoned for adultery, earlier U asked:

///Why too, didn't Jesus allow the Pharisees to stone the woman taken in adultery? Did Jesus then in fact not keep the TORAH?///

Should we void Matthew 5:19 for the teaching of men? How do you advise?
---Paul9594 on 1/14/10


Kathr4453:

///Paul, it was because Mary was carrying the Messiah that she was not put to death. Joseph was told by an angel. Mary was a virgin and NOT GUILTY of adultery to begin with!!///

Kahtr, >>> BEFORE <<< the angel told Joseph, that she was carrying the Messiah, a righteous man DECIDED TO release her secretly, applying mercy of the Law and not punishment!

bEFORE KNOWING THE TRUTH, a righteous man Joseph UNDERSTOOD He could apply mercy, grace because of Christs blood, and not have to always apply the punishment of the Law!

School master, The Law, teaches APPLYING mercy, why many dont understand this?
But void Christs Word regarding this, within the renewed covenant, BUT APPLY precepts of apostates!
---Paul9594 on 1/14/10


---JIM on 1/14/10 James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Jim is James lying here. Are we to throw the book of James away and all the scriptures I have given you that contradicts what you say.

Jesus himself said he will not accept lip service. he said with his own mouth that atree with bad fruit, unacceptable works is worthless except for burning

Tell me, is Jesus and James who you are saying is wrong.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


exzucuh..."He saw their faith by their works and forgave their sins!
No...their works had nothing to do with being forgiven. IT WAS THEIR FAITH.
---JIM on 1/14/10


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Luke 5:18-20 And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him. And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.

And when he saw their faith,

he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

He saw their faith by their works and forgave their sins!
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

1 John 5:11 And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Those who are saved, redeemed, sanctified, made holy and righteous, forgiven of sins, etc.. know they were saved by grace through faith. The blood of Jesus cleansed them of all their sins. Those who truly understand the depths and riches of God's grace have a joyful and peaceful relationship with their Father and Lord Jesus and through the Holy Spirit continues to draw closer to them. They know they have eternal life and security.
---Bob on 1/14/10

Amen !!! I also agree with your post too Seq.
---miche3754 on 1/14/10


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

This is a wonderful scripture, Sin is no longer my master? I do not have to sin. AS long as I am under Grace. So that means if I still sin then I am not under grace.

Romans 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace is super abounding power that reigns through righteousness. If righteousness is not evident then sin is still abounding and you are not under Grace but the law. If you want eternal life righteousness must abound.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

1 John 5:11 And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Those who are saved, redeemed, sanctified, made holy and righteous, forgiven of sins, etc.. know they were saved by grace through faith. The blood of Jesus cleansed them of all their sins. Those who truly understand the depths and riches of God's grace have a joyful and peaceful relationship with their Father and Lord Jesus and through the Holy Spirit continues to draw closer to them. They know they have eternal life and security.
---Bob on 1/14/10


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MarkV...thank you brother. I see what you mean. They just don't get it.
---JIM on 1/14/10


Jim, you are correct, keep the good work brother. There is too many right now fighting for the works of man. They speak and then pick a fight with you. Be ready, it never fails.
---MarkV. on 1/14/10


So many here still argueing about sin and saying they are still sinners.. I guess many dont believe its finished yet.
I was set free from sin over 30 yrs. ago and I have no doubts.
Its really sad to defend what Christ did for us to Christians.
I think many here should take a second look at the work of the Cross. HE came to put away sin, now believe it.
---duane on 1/14/10


I really wish you would stop trying to pick fights with people as apparently you move from one person to another to find an argument.
---Lee1538 on 1/13/10

Lee, I am not picking fights.
I meant to say I wasn't arguing with him for that reason.(my key board sometimes has a mind of its own and doesn't want to print what I actually type) I am telling him that the bible does say we are not supposed to go around sinning. If we have Christ in us, we are supposed to live righteous. Take the argument to God not me because he said it not me. You stop judging me and and siding with someone who thinks its okay to still keep sinning. If he thought we weren't supposed to sin Jim would not be arguing about it. God said it its done.
---miche3754 on 1/14/10


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Is it ok to sin? I know everybody will agree its no!
Then why do we still sin? We all say you must stop sinning!
Then why do we still sin? No one is without sin!

Then we say if we believe. We will be forgiven!
So then, its just ok to sin for those who believe.
But, we are all the same sinners.

See its, either make the tree good and its fruit good.
Could this be any clear?
For the tree is known by his fruit.

I will have a cold glass of milk, thank you.
---TheSeg on 1/13/10


To Whosoever Has Ear To Hear?

Brethren, God's Children as Saints are "Dead to sin" by gaining a repenting Heart in Christ and strive to be perfect as He is Perfect, but b/c of the flesh we all fall short of God's Glory : and we're only kept unto Salvation by His Grace which is sufficient.

Saints don't continue in sin so Grace may abound b/c we're dead to sin, living no longer therein. But it does not mean we will never again commit a sin nor that that sin will pluck us out of the Lord's Hands and cause us to perish. Read 2Cor.12:7-9 for understanding.

The carnal mind cannot spiritually discern 'Be ye in the world but not of the world', nor the difference between having commit a sin and no longer Living therein !!
---Shawn.M.T. on 1/13/10


miche3754 //Jim, I am saying you are arguing with me because you don't agree with me.

I really wish you would stop trying to pick fights with people as apparently you move from one person to another to find an argument.

1Co 11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
---Lee1538 on 1/13/10


Please read these scriptures, I've highlighted a few:
Romans 6:9-23 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jude 1:20-24,

1Pe 1:14-16 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance

Rom 12:1-2 1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Acts: 2:40, Luke 13:24, Hebrews 12:1-4
Hebrews 10:22-29 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
1Peter 4:1-2, 1Corinthians 9:27
MOST OF ALL - 2Tim 2:15
---Ashleigh on 1/13/10


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Jim, I am saying you are arguing with me because you don't agree with me. I am saying you are arguing with what God's word says about sin.
All I can say is look at what Kath said in her last blog. She said it all and it is backed up by scripture.
You go Kath!
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Miche... This is what you said: "They think it is okay to sin".
Please show me anywhere in this blog where myself or someone said it is ok to sin.
Or is it just your interpretation?
---JIM on 1/13/10

Aren't you arguing with me because I stated that the Bible says we aren't supposed to sin?
You most certainly are, brother.

Now, if you had said That you agree with what I said BUT sometimes we saved folks fall down(sin) and have to get back up and repent of it, well we would not be in disagreement now would we? most certainly not.

So, I believe you are implying its okay to sin by your unbalanced answers, Jim.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Miche..---True Biblical repentence means to change ones mind. Thus resulting in a change of actions and behavior.
---JIM on 1/12/10

Jim, I can change my mind but that doesn't give me the POWER to change my behavior. I don't believe in the power of positive thinking!

REPENTANCE DOES NOT Fix the following issue!

Romans 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Does Paul Conclude quoting 1st John!!!! NO!!
---kathr4453 on 1/13/10


Miche..."argue"..is that what you call it when someone does not agree with you.
If discussing on these blogs is "arguing", than you do alot of disagreeing with others.
As far as my walk with the Lord, I do just well.
---JIM on 1/13/10


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Miche... This is what you said: "They think it is okay to sin".
Please show me anywhere in this blog where myself or someone said it is ok to sin.
Or is it just your interpretation?
---JIM on 1/13/10


Sister miche...once again your understanding of what i said is not correct.
Please show me where i said it is alright to sin after coming to Christ.
---JIM on 1/13/10

It is implied when you argue that with me about sin. You say all you have to have is faith. That is only the beginning of your relationship with God. You to have teach the whole gospel and stop feeding people milk of the word and move on to the meat. The Word that gives them strength to stand up to the adversary.
You must grow, Jim. And as Kath stated, to grow in Christ, you must present yourself a living sacrifice daily. And the Bible says what ever you yield your members to that is who you serve.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


miche, I don't get the idea you believe in sinless perfection here. Certainly we all sin. Our New Man in Christ cannot sin. It's our old sin man, our old adam that sins. We struggle between these two natures. Paul found this out and testifies in Romans 7.

Just having that struggle and being CONCERNED is every indication YOU ARE SAVED. People who don't have this struggle, I don't believe were ever saved.

If MarkV and these others would only testify to the Power of Christ in them rather take the defensive and make EXCUSES by asking you if you ever sin. What a COP-OUT. They cop-out because they've never experienced a DEATH BLOW when they received Christ.

This struggle indicates Christ IS AT WORK IN YOU!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/13/10


Thank you Kath,
It seems you are one of the few on here who understands.
And you are right. They think it is okay to sin.
When Jesus says if we fall he will be an intercessor for us, he isn't talking to sinners, he is talking to the Body of Christ.
And many like to take my words and twist them to make others think I am saying I haven't sinned.
I know as long as I keep my faith in Christ and he keeps growing me and I hearken to his voice, I don't have to worry about my salvation because it is assured as long as I stay in Christ and he in me.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


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Miche, haven't you learned by now, Calvinists have their own gospel. they don't have to do anything..not even obey Romans 12:1-2.

Jesus came to break the power of SIN in our life, and put SIN in remission. Romans 6.

Yet, how often they take 1st John and use it over and over as an excuse TO SIN and continue in it!!!

Miche, just listen to the Lord....stop listening to MarkV or anyone who does not believe in being ACCOUNTABLE!!!

Satan would love nothing more that to steal away your rewards! he can't steal your salvation...so what's left?
---kathr4453 on 1/13/10


Sister miche...once again your understanding of what i said is not correct.
Please show me where i said it is alright to sin after coming to Christ.
---JIM on 1/13/10


Markv,
I am not telling others of their sin.
I am telling what the Bible says. And I have given scripture on it. if you read my posts, they say "the Bible says" or "Jesus says". If you have a problem with it, take it up with God because he said it not me.

We had long discussions on this. And I can tell you right now, today, I haven't sinned.Not in my mind or my heart. But the day is still early where I am. I can say too that I have a choice to sin or not and I choose not to sin because Christ is in me and I love God so I don't want to disobey him.
This is a daily walk and I have been given only this day so far and I am not promised tomorrow, so I can't speak for tomorrow only for today.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Miche, you made this statement,

No, brother, Christ comes and gives you a new heart and stops you from sinning against God."

Have you stopped sinning? a yes or no will do.
If you haven't stopped sinning why do you tell others of their sin? What about yours? You are no different.
If you don't sin, the truth is not in you. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us"
So which is it?
---MarkV. on 1/13/10


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Sister Miche....you really should do some research as to what the word "repent" means biblically.
---JIM on 1/13/10

Obviously you need to read the Story of Jonah.
You are telling people they don't have to do anything that it is alright to sin AFTER coming to Christ.
If it was alright, then why would Jesus say it wasn't?
The Bible says that sin is missing God's mark. To repent means to turn away from, Jim.
God sent Jesus to be in us and get us to turn from sin and to be conformed to Jesus. We are not to be conformed to the world, Jim. Sin is confirming to the world, repenting is turning away from sin and Turning to God.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Okay Jim,
I looked it up to make sure and both of us are right depending on what is being expressed.

When John the baptist tells us to repent for the kingdom is at hand, that means to change your action and your mind. Stop sinning and put on the mind of Christ.
When God says he repented of the thought of destroying something, that is changing your mind.
When God told Nineveh to repent, he was telling them to change their actions. in other words, turn from sin and back to God.
Either way you slice it, Jim, the end result means turn from sin.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Sister Miche....you really should do some research as to what the word "repent" means biblically.
---JIM on 1/13/10


Paul9594 //Christ when there was no New Testatment said:"You search the Scriptures because you believe they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! John 5:39

If you were to give that verse more than just a casual reading you would see that Jesus was saying that salvation is in HIM, not in observance of the old Torah law. And that is why we often hear that all of Scripture points to Jesus.

//Yet some today want to abolish the Law and the Prophets,Scriptures? Why?

As to law, most on this forum are very committed to living moral lives as much as they can. However, the OT sabbath is not a moral law, and like the Levitical dietary laws, was not required of believers under the New Covenant.
---Lee1538 on 1/13/10


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Paul9594 //It is to our benefit to keep the least of the commandments. Because we also want to please the Father, as Christ did! But you must begin with the staple of our convenant the 10 commandments as you grow in your understanding.

Incorrect! Romans 13:9 The commandments, you shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet,and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Do that much and the Father will be totally pleased.

//Or you may Hear Matthew 7:20-23.

No one born of His Spirit will hear that, as Jesus is our Savior, not our obedience to the old Torah law.
---Lee1538 on 1/13/10


Jim,
I guess you think God was just telling Israel to change their mind?
Nope.
Look at Jonah and Ninevah.
God told Jonah to go, tell them to repent - TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS or he was going to destroy them. God didn't tell them to change their mind. He told them to stop sinning.

It is that false mess that has corrupted the Gospel made many false teachers, preachers.
Sin IS disobedience to God.
You think all you have to do is change our mind?
No, brother, Christ comes and gives you a new heart and stops you from sinning against God.
It doesn't happen over night, But if he has given you a new heart, you will do God's will instead of the will of your flesh. God will purge every bad thing out of you.
---miche3754 on 1/13/10


Paul9594:

1 John 2:8-9 "On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now".

John give us a new commandment. Do you follow his commandment? This new commandment lines up with this commandment:

Mark 12:31 "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these"
---Mark_Eaton on 1/12/10


Miche...Repentance does not mean turn from sin.True Biblical repentence means to change ones mind. Thus resulting in a change of actions and behavior.
---JIM on 1/12/10


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Repent means to turn from sin, Jim.

To repent means to have a contrite heart AND turn away from your sin. that means stop doing it! That is what the Bible describes repent as.
If you are fornicating, STOP. If you are lying, STOP. If you are stealing, STOP, Etc.

If you don't stop, then how do you expect the Holy Spirit to teach you or renew your mind and put good things in you if you are continuing to do sinful things?

The flesh can and should be subdued by the SPIRIT of God. If you are still doing these things, you may be lacking in faith that God gave you power over your sins.
God says he gives you power over it, do you think he is lying about it?

Jim, What does repent mean to you?
---miche3754 on 1/12/10


Miche....I ment to say,
What does repent mean to you?
---JIM on 1/12/10


Miche...was does repent mean to you?
---JIM on 1/12/10


Paul9594 - //1John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

And what are those commandments that John speaks of? Are they the 10 commandments?

John here is speaking of just 2 - to believe on the name of His son Jesus Christ, and the other is to love one another.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Sabbaterians often interpret commandments to always mean the 10 commandments, but in doing that they attempt to get the naive back under the old Torah law and into observing the old Jewish Sabbath - a law that only foreshadowed our rest in Christ. Hebrews 4.
---Lee1538 on 1/12/10


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that is how we are loved by God. no one can pluck us out - we real Christians - in God's hand if we want to stay. but we can be separated to God if we decided to be separated. remember that we always have a choice. to follow Him and to disobey him. we are not prisoners in God's hand but we are staying there because we want it and want to be with God forever. :)
---priscilla on 1/12/10


Mark Eaton, MarkV, Lee1538, JackB, kathr4453:

2John 1:6 And THIS IS LOVE, that we should WALK AFTER his commandments. This is the commandment, even as ye heard from the beginning, that ye should walk in it.

1John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Who is liar about knowing him?

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

1Jo 3:22 and whatsoever we ask we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight.

Whatsoever we ask of Him we receive, why? Because we keep his commandments!!!

Do apostates teachings, teach you different?
---Paul9594 on 1/11/10


It means we are eternally secure if we are in Christ and will never be lost. True Christians, eternal security, rest on what Christ did for us on the cross. He is the one who gives us eternal life, adopts us into the family of God "to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can never fade away, kept by the POWER of God through faith unto salvation" 1 Peter 1:4-5 "Be confident that He who began a good work in us will perform it until the Day of Jesus Christ" Phil. 1:6
---Tony on 1/11/10


Jim brother, you want so bad to NOT do ALL that Jesus told us to do, but you can't go around it from any angle.
While Jesus was here, and alive, sins had not been sacrificed for. That didn't happen until Jesus died on the cross. So, she was saved by her faith alone, and her action after wards proved she was.
Now, we are required to repent, believe, pick up our cross and FOLLOW after Christ.
You can't avoid these things that Jesus told us to do. Why you ignore them I just can't understand. But brother, either you show your faith or it is dead faith. And you show faith by doing what Jesus commanded.
---miche3754 on 1/11/10


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Miche....let me ask you this. The Samaritan woman at the well,when she went back to her town to tell what Jesus told her many believed her. they came to Jesus and He stayed with them a couple days. Because of Jesus' words many more believed(or put their Faith in).
Were these people saved based on Believing(having Faith)?
---JIM on 1/11/10


I will be with you always!

One says not by work, another says faith with word is dead.
Then I read every man is given a measure of faith by God.

If a man has no faith, can he believe?
If he doesnt believe, will he repent?
If he has not repented, what work can he do?

Maybe, one day he will see you, on your knees crying.
He'll come over and ask whats wrong.
What will you say?

O ye of little faith and tell him the story.
Maybe then he will try to understand?
And God will give him his measure.
Well then just who is working here?
God Bless
---TheSeg on 1/11/10


Jim
That was under the law. Grace did Not come into place aft Jesus died-was buried & then rose the 3rd day. There's a treee of life on both sides of the river, the law & grace. We are under grace, Jesus & His Salvation Plan.
---Lawrence on 1/11/10


Jim just a little observation, wasn't Christ still here with us at that time?
What about what Jesus himself told us about picking up our cross and following him? Are we not supposed to do that now?
Again, faith without works is dead faith.
By the way, this verse, Jesus is referring to the ones gave to him at that time. The disciples specifically because they needed to have God's protection when Christ went them out 2 by to to do his work. They didn't even receive the Holy Spirit until Christ breathed on them. Come on people, CONTEXT CONTEXT!
Not everything Jesus says was referring to us but directly to his disciples that were walking with him at the time.
---miche3754 on 1/11/10


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Lawrence....Did the thief on the cross do any good deeds to inherit salvation other than putting his Faith in Jesus?
---JIM on 1/11/10


Hebrews 7:24-25 But this man (Jesus), because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

No, no, no, no this is not true says those who believe our Lord is incapable of saving us unto eternal life. They beleive that our salvation is in our hands, not in the hands of our Savior.
---Lee1538 on 1/11/10


Cluny...Scripture says Salvation is a Gift from God.
What do you think you can do to merit your salvation?
Let me tell you what i can do.....NOTHING.
I do not deserve it. It is through FAITH in His Son Jesus that Gods awesome Grace saves me.
---JIM on 1/11/10


You Can lose the Salvation that God gave you, in doing as like what it says in the previous reply.
Man-made trin-ministers teaching once saved always saved, no works salvation & the sinner prayer is ALL lies. There is No scriptural basis for such teachings, that's why they Are False.
---Lawrence on 1/11/10


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no you cannot lose your salvation because:

1. it is jesus who saves us not us.
2. Salvation is not a choice we make, it is God's will to save and has nothing to do with the person's works or lack thereof.
3.Jesus knew everything the "saved"person would ever do and still died on the cross and said it is finished.
4.salvation is by faith in jesus and him crucified. and its God who gives each a measure of faith so, if salvation is lost you probably never really had it to begin with.but you can still be saved trustin him and not yourself or things and situations.
---salina on 1/11/10


Yes you can lose God's Salvation that He has given unto you & it's Your Choice to do so, Not God's. Many things pertain for such to happen disobeying God, hate - malice - strife etc, even here, 1st. John 2 v's 15-16
social alco drinks, dancing, movies, missing Church to pay to watch sports, smoking & the such like etc, these things the devil uses to keep peoples minds off away from God to be lost.
You canNot serve 2 masters.
---Lawrence on 1/11/10


It means there's a difference between what mima means by salvation and what the Bible means by salvation.
---Cluny on 1/11/10


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