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Drunkenness And Alcoholism

Does the Bible say that drunkenness and alcoholism are synonymous?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 1/10/10
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Exz ... It is obvious from your answers generally that you claim to have the same perfection, purity, perception, power, and holiness as Jesus.

So why is it that you don't have His honesty? Jesus answered honest questions, and did not lie about what the Bible says.

I can't see the same in you.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/16/10


---alan8566_of_uik on 1/16/10 equating ourselves with Jesus is part of our inheritance. And distinguishes the son's of God from the sons of fools.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these
ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Jesus said when you see me you see the Father
We should say the same of ourselves because we are the image of Christ.
---exzucuh on 1/16/10


Steveng ... don't please equate yourself with Jesus.

If Jesus was on this blog, he would give an answer.

But neither Exz nor you have not given an answer.

Is my friend a liar? Assuming she is not, how do explain her expereince?
---alan8566_of_uik on 1/16/10


Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God,
but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


Mark 4:30-32 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches, so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

You people would never plant it because that would be works, and all you have to do is believe.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10




---Darlene_1 on 1/15/10 You people that can't take correction always jump on that I'm judging bandwagon and the whole time you judge me for doing the ministry I am called to do.
You cannot understand the bible but yet you want to teach somebody something.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

You think I am hard but you have never seen a real man of God you have only had pastors that feared they would lose their salary if they corrected someone. And loved their payday more than you and did not care if you went to hell.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word, be instant in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


alan8566_of_uk: "If does give an answer, and it was not what I wanted, I would accept it, maybe comment why I felt it wrong. But he just will not answer at all... except to still say the bible says something, when he can't or will not provide the passage or the quote.

And your answers, too, do not answer the question, and ignore the facts. No, you don't ignore the facts, you just make my friend to be a liar."

If Jesus were on these blogs you wouldn't accept his answers either.
---Steveng on 1/15/10


Weak christians trust man's healing power more than of God's. Most christians know of God, but deny his power to heal. Man has a pill for everything - to go to sleep and to keep awake, to lose weight and to gain weight, to remember and to forget, to slow us down and to speed us up, etc, etc, etc - all of them having side effects worse than the sickness. God, through Jesus, healed everyone from every type of sickness - without the side effects.

Christians can perform greater miracles than Jesus if only they had as much faith as in a mustard seed.
---Steveng on 1/15/10


exzucuh:

You made lots of general comments, but you still didn't answer the question about aspirin. Aspirin has several properties: weak pain reliever, blood thinner, anti-coagulant, fever reducer. It's basically refinement of a medicine from willow bark, known for thousands of years.

Do you object to pain relief? If so, do you take issue with Proverbs 31:6-7:
"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more"
And how about anesthesia during surgery?

I personally consider most drugs to be a (sometimes necessary) evil, and try to use them only as necessary, but sometimes they ARE necessary.
---StrongAxe on 1/15/10




If you are going to get in people faces and throw your weight around with scriptures you better be ready to get you feelings hurt. It is life and death.
You do not know what the love of God is. You think love is some carnal feeling. But God's love is by the operation of faith. It is that you are willing to sacrifice your popularity. your friendship, and lay it all down to speak the truth

Matthew 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


exzucuh,you don't know but what the Holy Ghost has taught me and you don't know if I reason things out or not. That's all just asumptions in your mind. According to what I see you reject the Word of God and twist its truth into fiction to suit your purpose. It appears by your rejection of the Word of God when it is given ,you don't think anyone can tell you anything because from your statements about Jesus you seem to hold yourself on a level with Jesus,therefore,I am through with any discourse with you but I will be praying for you. By the way a Prophet operates in God's Law of Love,he/she doesn't come on like a War Wagon knocking down and crushing all of Gods people,judging,and calling them sinners. He/she also exalts God not him/herself.
---Darlene_1 on 1/15/10


---Darlene_1 on 1/15/10 That is why you need to be taught by the Holy Spirit rather than try to reason things. You see Jesus picked corn on the Sabbath and it was righteous because he was lord of the Sabbath but the Jews judged him by Moses law that condemned him.They had no right to judge him but they were ignorant because they did not know his authority. He healed on the sabbath and told people to take their bed and walk. Again he broke the Law of Moses. They judged him as guilty. He said he was the Son of God making himself equal with God.They Judged him as a Blasphemer and he was by Moses Law. You cannot judge people for what they do as righteousness Or people in the world but church people that sin Rebuke before all!
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


exzucuh,verses before Romans14:10,12,13 are about differences in beliefs,not their righteousness,if anything else,weaknesses or strengths. Romans 14:2,3,4, One believes he may eat all things,another who is weak eats herbs. Let not him that eats despise him that eats not,and let not him that eats not judge him that eats,for God has received him. Who are you who judges another mans servant? To his own master he stands or falls: Yes he shall be held up,for God is able to make him stand. Again,God makes no conditions where one can judge another. People who say I'm a Prophet,I prophesy,I heal,I do this or that,I,I,I sooner or later find themselves all alone with nothing Spiritual happening because they have stolen the GLory which belongs to God.
---Darlene_1 on 1/15/10


---StrongAxe on 1/15/10

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee,

You cannot see the light of Jesus because of Drugs, illegal and legal drugs

and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:

Addiction and Pharmaceutical companies take the place of Jesus and the church

for thy merchants(Drug dealers, Pharmacist) were the great men of the earth,
for by thy sorceries(drugs) were all nations deceived.

Pharmaceutical companies are taking over the world. They will eventually destroy America and the world.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


There is a difference in medicine and drugs
drugs do nothing but mask pain and sickness and allow people to die without knowing they are. Medicine helps the natural healing process of the body to work easier. Medicine does not heal. If the natural healing process does not work medicine is worthless. You will need divine healing.
---exzucuh on 1/15/10


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exzucuh:

Are you saying that ALL drugs (including things like aspirin, etc.) are works of the devil?
---StrongAxe on 1/15/10


Every sinful behaviour or good behaviour is not listed in the Bible, it is not a human constitution.If u are willing & obedient u will eat the goodness in the written word(Isa.1:19). Alcoholism is an abuse of your body, the body derives all alcohol that it needs naturally thro' fruits and other items. You do not need to booze because "do not drink alcohol" is not stated in the Bible.
---Adetunji on 1/15/10


Steveng ... I continue to ask Exz for his answers, because he has not yet given any ... at least not to the question asked.

If does give an answer, and it was not what I wanted, I would accept it, maybe comment why I felt it wrong. But he just will not answer at all... except to still say the bible says something, when he can't or will not provide the passage or the quote.

And your answers, too, do not answer the question, and ignore the facts. No, you don't ignore the facts, you just make my friend to be a liar.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/15/10


I an confident and know my authority because I know the word. The word I live by Judges I do not Judge any one. I speak the same word Jesus and the Apostles spoke, if you feel judged it is by their word it is not mine. And I have already told you alcoholic is not in the bible.
That word did not exist when they said a drunkard would not inherit the kingdom of God. The word drugs and drug dealer did not exist either it was called sorcery and a drug dealer was a Sorcerer. pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah
drugs medication ("pharmacy"),witchcraft
WE use the term for Pharmacy But old english terms considered them witches and burned them at the stake
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


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exzucuh:

You accuse people of just wanting an excuse to drink (despite the fact that nobody here said that they wanted to do so). You claim the right to judge the specks in others' eyes (because presumably you have already removed the beam from your own).

And still (as Alan has repeatedly asked) you cannot give a scripture to support the notion that the Bible says alcoholism and drunkenness are equivalent (i.e. the topic of this blog), even though you can quote many to justify your judgement and accusation of others.
---StrongAxe on 1/14/10


alan8566_of_uk, why do you continue to seek answers from exzucuh when you won't quit until your answers satisfy you? You keep baggering him? For what purpose? Self gratification? Do you have some sort of vendetta against exzucuh? How many times must you ask the same questions until you give up?

Besides, I've already answered your questions, but you don't seem to want the wisdom I share with you. I pity you.
---Steveng on 1/14/10


Exz ... As originator of this blog, can I bring you back to the question, which I asked because you said that the Bible says that drunkenness and alcoholism are synonymous?

Where does the Bible say that drunkenness and alcoholism are synonymous?

And how do you explain my saved friend, who neither having drunk for 7 years, nor desiring to drink, fell victim when she unknowing drank a spiked drink?

So far you have avoided answering, perhaps seven times. That says something.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/10


---StrongAxe on 1/14/10 Where do you see me giving you my wisdom I am giving you the mind of Christ. I have no wisdom that can do any person any good. Only the word of God that I have given you and others. Now I am finished with your thoughts that come from Satan and will go on to other things.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


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Revelation 3:3-5 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments, and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Unless Christians repent in America Judgment will begin in the House of the Lord. He will return for a spotless and Holy church not a church in sin.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


---Darlene_1 on 1/14/10 He was talking about judging them for doing Righteousness not sin
Like you are doing to me right now because you do not accept me as a man of God. Nor do you accept the word of God that comes from my mouth. So you twist the word of God so you can make me a sinner and stop the preaching of the Gospel. Your doing to me right now what the Jews did to Jesus to judge his righteousness as sin so they could crucify him. I have authority by the Holy Spirit to preach and convince people of sin and if you are convicted it is because of the Holy Spirit not me.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


exzucuh:

Note that, in the example you cited, it was others praising the preachers' wisdom. NOT they themselves. I don't recall Peter or Paul (nor even Jesus) ever proclaiming their own wisdom. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
---StrongAxe on 1/14/10


exzucuh,the Word of God says don't judge,period. Romans 14:10,12,13 You then why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgement seat. So then will each of us give an account of himself before God. Therefore let us stop passing judgement on oneanother. Instead make up your mind not to put a stumblingblock or obstacle in your brothers way. James 4:11,12 Brothers do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law you are not keeping it but sitting in judgement on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge,the one who is able to save and destroy. But you who are you to judge your neighbor?
---Darlene_1 on 1/14/10


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Acts 6:9-11 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

People never like preachers like me and Stephen
we always get stoned for blasphemy, we know to much because it is not us talking. We preach by Rhema and Rhema always causes trouble.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


\\No they were Holy and Bold and like Paul got in kings and priest faces and did not back up.\\

There's a difference between holy boldness and using the Name of Jesus as an excuse to be obnoxious.
---Cluny on 1/14/10


So many people are like this Blog they think they can change the word of God by changing the definition of words. Or how words are used

That is the tactic of Satan himself. That is how he Got Adam an Eve to commit the first Sin
By confusing what God had said about eating of the trees in the Garden.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


---StrongAxe on 1/14/10 Humility when it comes to preaching is compromise. We are to have boldness like John the baptist. Who confronted
sin and blasphemy in ways that make me look like a little girl compared to him. It got him his head cut off. Why do you think they killed
Christians back then because they were weak little sinners like Christians today. No they were Holy and Bold and like Paul got in kings and priest faces and did not back up. Paul who respected Peter when he got out of line withstood him to his face. And Peter seeing Jesus in Paul submitted to him.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


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exzucuh:

My point was that those who profess wisdom do not always actually have it. You yourself quoted scriptures that said so (Romans 1:22).

Note that when someone called Jesus "good", he said "why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18). Even being God himself, he didn't claim to be worthy of being called good.

Humility was one trait that Jesus had, that sadly all too many who profess to be Christians lack, especially on these blogs. But it is important:
Matthew 23:12, Luke 14:11, Luke 18:14:
"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted".
---StrongAxe on 1/14/10


---StrongAxe on 1/14/10 Professing to be wise in worldly knowledge is vain but to live according to God s word is a Commandment of God
And only Satan would twist that around to make it look like sin.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


exzucuh:

Declaring onself worth to judge others because one is living by God's word - isn't that the same as professing oneself to be wise?
---StrongAxe on 1/14/10


Exz ... Well again you have quoted some scriptures. But they don'y have any relevance to the issues here, nor do they prove what you have said.

And you still avoid answering the questions!

So clever of you!
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/10


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Having being delivered by the Lord from both Alcoholism & Drunkenness, and thereafter sustained by HIM without alcohol drinks for the last 18yrs, I can inform you that alcoholism is what romancing an unmarried person is like to adultery/fornication. God wants HIS own to be involved in what edifies self & others. Alcoholism cannot be part of HIS agenda of edification (John17:16-20).
---Adetunji on 1/14/10


Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye,

Jesus did not say I cannot Judge, he said I cannot Judge if I have a beam in my eye. Or I am a bigger sinner that the person I am Judging
that makes me a hypocrite. But when I am living according to Gods word I can correct my brother to get the mote out of his eye. The reason is if I look like the world to my brother, he will be offended but if he see Jesus in my life he will be convicted. That is why you people cannot Judge you do not have faith with works.

and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


The bible never mentions an educated cynics or skeptics But it does mention

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1 Corinthians 1:20-21 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


Exz ... You make me and my friend out to be liars. Yet you are the liar, who can't show the scripture you claimed.

And now you say to me "All you people want is an excuse to drink. If you really were born again you would not be addicted to alcohol"

You insult both Trish and me. She has told you she does not want to drink, and I am not and never have been addicted to alcohol.

I drink alcohol moderately. I have been drunk (and only mildly) once in my life, when my soft drink was spiked.

Will you withdraw your slur on us? I reckon you will not have the courage or morality to do that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/13/10


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exzucuh: "---Steveng on 1/12/10 You will do well to listen to this person's advice. He knows what he is talking about."

I myself is nothing. Only listen to what God has to say. He's the one that gives all the knowledge that is needed for a particular purpose to anyone who asks. However, many of todays christians don't listen because they fill up every minute of every day with ipods, video games, TVs, radios, computers, phones, twitter, facebook, blogs, friends, family, entertainment, work, school, church, bible study, reading, travel, exercising, shopping, etc. that they rarely find time to truly talk with God - let alone listen.
---Steveng on 1/13/10


Oh Exzucah, I need some pepto-bismol after seeing your haughty reply to Darlene--ugh! Does your church offer any classes on humility? :D
---Mary on 1/13/10


exzucuh:

Just as the Bible never mentions alcoholism, it also never mentions addiction. While uncontrolled addictions may LEAD to lust, gluttony, drunkenness, etc, they are NOT the same thing - much as "inflammable" and "burning" differ.

Also, you make the same mistake as others on these forums: Saying "the Bible does not explicitly condemn something" is NOT the same as saying "something is good". Often, people have asserted that "God wants something", and when I point out "the Bible never mentions that", I get accused of promoting the opposite, even though all have stated is a matter of fact (i.e. that the Bible is silent) rather than opinion (i.e. the opposite is good).
---StrongAxe on 1/13/10


---Darlene_1 on 1/13/10 If you are claiming to be a worldly sinner type not born again then you are right I cannot judge you because you are already judged any way. And I would not want to because I feel sorry for sinners and try to show as much compassion as I can. But like Jesus said you say you know so therefore you are held accountable. I can judge the church by the word of God the same word I have to live by.

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


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Exc: Now you cite scriptures and mind read. Your powers never cease to amaze me.

Addiction is a physical illness. I assume that when you were born again, you were healed of all of your physical illnesses, and have never been ill since your conversion.

I do not want to drink. I do not want you to feel sorry for me. You are delusional, and ready for the psych ward.
---Trish9863 on 1/13/10


exzucuh,Matthew7:1-5 Judge not,that you be not judged. For with what judgement you judge,you will be judged:and with what measure you mete,it shall be measured to you again. And why do you behold the mote in your brothers eye,but not consider the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother,Let me pull the mote out of your eye,and behold a beam is in your own eye? --,first cast out the beam from your own eye,and then you can see clearly to cast out the mote from your brothers eye. Is there love in what comes across as a judgemental-holier than thou attitude? 1 John4:7,8 Beloved let us love one another,for love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God,he that loveth not,knoweth not God,for God is love.
---Darlene_1 on 1/13/10


All you people want is an excuse to drink. If you really were born again you would not be addicted to alcohol. The Bible very plainly tells us that addiction is lust out of control. You alcoholics lusted for drinks and your parties you felt sorry for yourselves and drowned it all. Now you want me to feel sorry for you, but I do not because I know you can do the same thing I did confess your sin and and become a new creature and then you can even drink communion wine and have no desire to get drunk. You can have power over sin if you get hold of the real God the Father of Jesus Christ who delivers people and stop serving some dead God that has no more power than a Buda statue.
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


StevenG: I do not believe Alan, nor I, are debating this issue, so much as trying to get Exc to see that he is making some outlandish statements about scripture that are just not true.

Ignorance abounds among Christians on the issue of alcoholism, and I pretty much attempt to educate, and then move on. But, when a believer makes statements, such as the ones that Exc has been making, claiming scriptures say thus and so about alcoholics, then I want him to show the scriptures.
---Trish9863 on 1/12/10


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---Steveng on 1/12/10 You will do well to listen to this person's advice. He knows what he is talking about.
---exzucuh on 1/12/10


Strongaxe,I am not bound by words used when I am trying to make a point of what could better describe the condition. Whether its what I said or something else,Alcoholic has a stigma attached and seems detrimental to those who are recovering alcoholics. To me if you no longer have the behavior there should be a step up in some manner to remove the label,but I can't do that but I can express my view of the practice. I admit this is a subject close to home. My husbands cousin,my Dads father,Moms uncle were all alcoholics,I've seen and head about the trouble it brings them and their families. Alan,Joel 1:5 Awake you drunkards and weep,and howl,all you drinkers of wine,-.It uses that as two different conditions.
---Darlene_1 on 1/12/10


Are you people still debating the semantics of drunkard and alcoholic? You people do need to get a life, preferably a christian life.

The word "alcholic" is not found in the bible. The word "drunkard" is also not found in the original scripts of the bible. "Alcoholic" was coined in the late 1800s and "drunkard" was coined in the fifteenth century. But the effects of both words are the same. Even the colloquial use of both words is the same.

Like I wrote in another blog, "A rose by any other name is still a rose."

You people are just too educated for your own good, or for the good of God.
---Steveng on 1/12/10


Darlene_1:

We may think some terms are inaccurate and should be avoided, and we may be right. However, such terms ARE used, and have specific meanings, and we are stuck with them whether we like them or not. We need to use them with the meanings that everyone else uses and understands, we can't just use words and have them mean whatever we want them to mean (like the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland), because if we do, all we get is miscommunication and chaos.

If I say "All blorps are gleeps", this means nothing to you. Similarly, if I say "all alcoholics are sinners", we must both agree on what we mean by "alcoholics" and "sinners" (not to mention "all" and "are")
---StrongAxe on 1/12/10


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PS, Opps I spelled alcohol wrong. The name alcohol came from the Arabic alkuhul and was called spirits because when it evaporated 2000 years ago people believed there was literally a spirit in it and the "spirit" got up and moved somewhere else. The term "alcoholism" was first used in 1849 by the Swedish physician Magnus Huss to describe the systematic adverse effects of alcohol.
---Darlene_1 on 1/12/10


Exz You say "I get my information from the word of God"

In that case you should be able to say whereabouts the word of God tells us that alcoholic means the same as drunkard.

Why do you avoid doing so?

Darlene ... The modern label of alcoholic is not and has never, except in Exz's imagination, been synonymous with drunkard.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/12/10


An Alcholic who stopped drinking is no different than a sinner who has come to Christ and stopped sinning. They both fight a battle with the Devil who tries to seduce them,as he did Christ who had not sinned. Satan hits us all at our weakest point whether it be physical-gentic,or spiritual. The Bible does not use the name Alcholism but calls men drunken as drunkards Nahum 1:10. Joel 1:5 makes the distinction between drunkards and wine drinkers, Awake ye drunkards and howl,and all you drinkers of wine,-.. Drunkards are no longer that when they stop drinking and frankly modern label of Alcholic shouldn't apply when the person stops now. Genetically susceptable better explains it.
---Darlene_1 on 1/12/10


Exc: Alan and I have repeatedly asked you to show us in God's Word where it equates alcoholism and drunkenness. You claim to only follow the Word, yet refuse to educate us in it.

What I believe is that you lack wisdom and discernment, and are ignorant of many things, including God's Word, especially when it discusses LOVE.

You are a fraud, and a liar when it comes to the Truth.
---Trish9863 on 1/12/10


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--alan8566_of_uk on 1/12/10 If you think

that I will ever compromise with you are

wrong and wasting your time.

A double minded man cannot

receive anything from God. We are to have

faces like flint when it comes to following

the truth. The friend of the world is the

enemy of God. So I do not recognize any

thing the world says. You get your alcoholic

information from the world and the world is

a liar. I get my information from the word

of God.
---exzucuh on 1/12/10


Exz .... "An alcoholic who the Bible calls a drunkard ... "

Where does the Bible say this?

You were asked maybe half a dozen times on the other blog to give scripture for such a statement, but did not do so.

Will you this time?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/12/10


\\ A christian cannot become an Alcoholic a Christian will remain a Christian,\\

I know plenty of Christians who are alcoholics, just as I know Christians who are diabetics, or have other physical infirmities.

Apparently, you don't understand what alcoholism really is.
---Cluny on 1/12/10


Alcohol has been around since biblical times, and so I am sure that there were alcoholics back when the Bible was penned. The fermented "drink" was not called alcohol back then, instead it was called "wine", and from this we get "wino" which is a person who drinks too much. And when a person does this, eventually they become ill, ill in body and mind and spirit. When a person quits drinking they are called a "nondrinker", this is not a sickness to be called a "nondrinker", but instead this is a good thing, a very good thing. Even people that have never touched alcohol, if they were to have one drink there is some chance that they too will become an alcoholic.
---Eloy on 1/12/10


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There is a difference. Both drunkenness and alcoholism are diseases derived from alcohol. However, drunkenness "the condition of being drunk" implies actively drinking, whereas alcoholism "the condition of impaired health from alcohol" does not necessarily imply actively drinking.
---Eloy on 1/11/10


exzucuh:

You are confusing the terms "alcoholic" (someone with a weakness for alcohol) and "drunkard" (someone who indulges in such weakness). While these two terms are related, they do NOT mean the same thing. (For example, people who attend AA meetings are alcoholics who have chosen to no longer be drunkards. They are, however, still alcoholics).

While a Christian should not become a drunkard (unless he backslides), he may well have a weakness in his flesh (such as alcoholism, or the unnamed thorn that Paul complained about, or cancer, or anything else.)
---StrongAxe on 1/11/10


The Bible is written to every one, the Jew first. Some of it is only to Jews because it like when Jesus tells them to keep the Law. Some of it is to unsaved people. Like all have sinned and fallen short, And the scriptures of salvation and how to be saved, Then their are scriptures to those that have already been saved and born again these cannot return to those scriptures that saved them and be saved again. Because you cannot be unborn again.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
---exzucuh on 1/11/10


A christian cannot become an Alcoholic a Christian will remain a Christian,
a backslider is no longer a Christian. A backslider can become alcoholic. An alcoholic who the Bible calls a drunkard will not inherit the Kingdom of God. A backslider is worse than a person who has never been saved.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
---exzucuh on 1/11/10


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Alcohol turns into illness, and in long term use causes liver damage among other illness. Yes Christians can become alcoholics..just like they can become junkfood abusers. Christ saved us from damnation from our sins of the past but alcoholism in advanced stages is normally liked to sinfull living.
David committed adultry and murder but scripture says he was "A man after God's own heart" go figure what sin causes you to be lost. Alll sin is against God, but He is a forgiving God.
Some claim Christ as Lord but may have not reallyy found the right Key
Dr George
---Dr_George on 1/11/10


Exz ... We both know what a Christian is. You seem to be throwing accusations that someone who is ill can't be a Christian.

NONE of your scriptures address the question asked. Why won't you answer it?

NONE of yuor scriptures deal with my friend's situation. Why will yuo not address that? Is it a sin to have one's non-alcoholic drink spiked with alcohol?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/11/10


The Bible does not use the word Alcoholism. Drunkenness along with gluttony are to be avoided. It doesn't mention addiction to tobacco or drugs either. We need to avoid things which destroy the "temple" of God which is mans body. It is a matter of common sense. Focussing upon the law is not wise. The Bible says that it "is not what goes into the man which defiles him but what comes out of the man". Words express the "abundance of the heart". This is most important.
---jody on 1/11/10


What is a Christian?

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

A christian has to willfully sin under Grace
For Grace is super abounding power.
---exzucuh on 1/11/10


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What is a Christian?

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
---exzucuh on 1/11/10


Cluny, can I borrow you? LOL

I LOVE picking someone's brain who STUDIES the word intricately. Did I spell that correctly?

By the way Alan, a Christian can be anything...meaning they still have a free will and if they choose to be in agreement with temptations, and yield to them etc., they most likely will. I know you know that, but just wanted to remind you...I just read Galations about the Spirit waging war against the Flesh DAILY...even hourly. I don't know why satan just doesn't give up. Apparently he hasn't read the end of the bible.....we win!!!!!!
---Donna on 1/11/10


Alan: I love Cluny's answer. I guess this should be an interesting discussion, especially if our good buddy shows up and puts in his 2 cents.
---Trish9863 on 1/11/10


Thank you Cluny, Strong Axe and Friendly Blogger. That's what I say as well.

But there are those here who claim that a Christian cannot be an alcoholic. They even claim the Bible says the two terms drunkard and alcoholic are synonymous.

Since that blog is closed now, I thought it would be fair to give them the opportunity to clarify their point of view, and to quote scriptural evidence, which so far thet have failed, nor even attempted to do!

Of course their claims could be a dangerous hindrance to any Christian who may suffer from alcoholism, or say to an ex-gambler, who may still suffer from the addiction.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/11/10


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Use your concordance.

The word "alcoholism" is the verse right after the one that mentions computers, television sets, and refrigerators.

You can hardly expect the Bible to discuss a concept that was not even known to exist at the time it was written, now can you?
---Cluny on 1/11/10


Seeing how the Bible mentions drunkeness, but does does not even use the word "alcoholism" even once, I don't see how anyone could possibly answer "yes" to this question.
---StrongAxe on 1/11/10


No from a purely technical stand point, the bible refers to drunkenness but never to alcoholism because it is a modern concept of disease. Maladies that we would consider diseases today were attributed to different causes in the ancient world. Mental illness, substance abuse [adiction] are modern concepts that did not exist in biblical times even though the Maladies did exist then.
---Friendly_Blogger on 1/11/10


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