Pastor's Job To Counsel
If a person who attends church every Sunday is refusing to forgive someone and expresses he wants revenge on that person, and is plotting to get it, isn't it the Pastor's job to ask him to leave?
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---Donna on 1/14/10
Helpful Blog Vote (4)
Moderator I don't know why but once again a reply I sent has been sent to my private box,that happened on another Blog too,and not to the Blog itself. You went back to the other Blog and entered my answer in it. There seems to be some kind of problem would you please check into it. God Bless Thank youi.
---Darlene_1 on 12/10/13|
It is not the Pastors job to do anything. This case is past that,when a person threatens another it is a job for the local police department. Report the threat right away and ask for police protection. Meanwhile you need to use a little common sense God gives even to the animals. It is your place to protect yourself and to get away from evils presence,you quit that church,don't wait for someone to put the threatening spouse out. Many a person has been killed because they dragged their feet in doing something to protect themselves.
---Darlene_1 on 12/9/13|
Shira4368: I am not saying that divorce must be instituted by the offended spouse. Yes, God forgives adultery but HE has permitted the spouse of the adulterer to divorce IF he or she wills because of adultery. But if the offended spouse have reasons to forgive the errant spouse and the 2 can renew their commitment to each other, it is good not to divorce.
---Adetunji on 11/29/13|
Adetujuna, that is spelled wrong. God forgives for adultery. God forgives murderers, thieves, home wreckers and all sin.that does not mean we don't account for what we do in the flesh.
---shira4368 on 11/26/13|
Donna : (1) If there is any feeling in you that you have hurt or offended your ex,please send him an apology note & ask for his forgiveness (2) If your conscience is clear & you have nothing to apologize for, then report him to the police for threatening you that much (3) Continue to pray that God's will be done for him.
---Adetunji on 11/24/13|
I believe as Cluny, this looks like something very serious that cannot be taken care of by anyone even the pastor. I do not believe it is the pastors right to intervene in this kind of matters when they are that serious. What will happen is that the person is also going to be angry with the Pastor. It is the Pastors job to teach the Word of God. Yes, he can counsel some problems believers are having, where God can be involve in their problem. But not this kind of problem where someone was revenge.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/13|
I was rather confused about the title No offense, actually, I guess they meant perhaps,counseling would do it.
I have seen a situation just like this! It got so,bitter then the pastor got involved, it got worse. Maybe the best thing to do,get the church to pray everytime .. people tend to have respect for prayer. Least shut- their mouth, maybe get too,a shamed and go home cool off!
I think that would be good .. oh,and not mention names while praying... the situation I witnessed really slowly but,surely did have a bad impact and eventually, the Pastor himself dismissed! The church had to send for a new Pastor.. the feud went on for about at least 4 yrs.
It was all too sad..
---Lidia4796 on 11/18/13|
\\Are there some things that you are holding in your heart against this one you are asking about? FEAR. He is stalking me. I am afraid of him. He has a gun, bought it and showed it to me.\\
Sounds like a restraining order is called for at this point.
---Cluny on 1/18/10|
Donna, thanks. Now, don't you ever give any space to this guy. Call the police and report his "showing" the gun to you. He may have violated the "Brandishing" a firearm laws. By the way he doesn't have to have a firearm to break this law. If he has made you think in your mind that he has one and scares you with it he is guilty. Also he doesn't have to scare you but just make you think he has one.
PS. There is nothing wrong with you taking a course in firearm training and letting him know you are prepared to defend or take care of your self.
Women must stop being so passive about abusive men. Please Donna learn this today.
---Elder on 1/16/10|
Donna, after reading your blog of 1/15/10 I feel led to share a similar experience with you. My ex-husband stalked me as well. I knew one of us was going to end of dead at the others' hand if I didnt leave. We had been separated since 1988. In 1998 he seemed determined to make me take him back. I left town, changed my name and didn't return until 13 months later. He was too sick to be a threat. Regrettably he passed away in 2002. I took it hard. He was the father of my children. He died on Saturday. By Gods grace the Wednesday before he passed I was able to tell him I had forgiven him. God can fix it for you.
---ashle7439 on 1/15/10|
According to scripture you must use these guidelines....
1) Speak to him one on one in private
If that fails then..
2) Bring others to speak to him as witnesses
If that fails then...
3) Remove him from the church and flock.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/15/10|
But, Donna, it is valid to get with God, in prayer, and simply do what He has you do. Paul had that "thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan" > see 2 Corinthians 12:7-15 > he says, "I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me." So, if Jesus has not taken care of this, He says, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." After He said this to Paul, Paul became able to say, "Therefore I take
in infirmites, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses,
for Christ's sake".
When we really are going through things for God > then is when we have the "pleasure" of this grace of God's own love.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/15/10|
All of your points would make sense IF this was just happening now, but we've been divorced for EIGHT years and the police removed him from our house TEN years ago. In PA, you have to wait 2 years for the divorce to go through if one spouse (HIM) wasn't signing the papers.
So would you believe this has been on-going EIGHT years? I have NOT dated any men since. I am being counselled by other Pastors and I have not done anything to antoganize my ex-husband. He stalks me by coming by where I live and I've had to move three times, change my phone number, sell my car, change my license plate, etc., so I'm doing everything I can to stay away from him.
THEN your points would be valid - but this is on-going for EIGHT years.
---Donna on 1/15/10|
How about getting with someone who is a real Jesus person and who you know you can trust? And, with Jesus, you will have peace as you deal with this, however He has you dealing with this. But I may be too fast to pick you apart and look for ways to be critical of you. Because you married a guy you don't trust, and have a pastor who you seem to not trust > you have been choosing men you don't trust. So . . . there may be what *you* need to do, instead of pointing at anyone else. I think of a couple who could lose everything > what were they talking about? Being romantic with each other. Like this, in our problems, we can first have our fill of love with the LORD, and simply do what He has us do in His *peace* > Colossians 3:15, 1 Peter 5:7.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/15/10|
Elder:answers to your questions:
Are there some things that you are holding in your heart against this one you are asking about? FEAR. He is stalking me. I am afraid of him. He has a gun, bought it and showed it to me.
If this is so then you must let the Lord deal with you first...etc., I have, and I am NOT holding unforgiveness towards him, but I am afraid of him. Someone came by my condo that looked like him on Dec 29th. I am fearful right now, that's all.
By the way, what is or has been your relationship with this person? My ex-husband. Someone told me he's out for revenge, and right after that, I saw a similar truck he has and a young man driving it RIGHT BY MY CONDO. It has frightened me ALOT.
---Donna on 1/15/10|
"Isn't it the Pastor's job to ask him to leave? No.
The Pharisees asked the disciples "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" Jesus' response "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what [this] means: I desire 'mercy' (kindness or good will towards the miserable and the afflicted, joined with a desire to help them) not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Chances are that this man is simply still bound by the carnality of his thinking, lost in what he is yet to understand. Show him the Father's love and allow that love to convict him.
---josef on 1/15/10|
\\Can you please give me scripture reference that says a Pastor should do that...please?
---Donna on 1/14/10\\
Try Matthew 18:12-13 and Luke 15:4-9 or so.
Remember that Pastor is just the Latin word for shepherd.
And do you really expect me this person has been threatening to get revenge for 10 years--and all he's done is threaten?
---Cluny on 1/15/10|
Church discipline is not only up to the Pastor but also the body of Christ.
Matthew 18:16-17 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
1 Cor. 5 (especially verse 11), 6:1-5
1 Thess. 5:14
2 Thess. 3:6-16
---ashle7439 on 1/14/10|
Donna let me ask you a question in kindness and love.
Are there some things that you are holding in your heart against this one you are asking about? Be honest about it to yourself.
If this is so then you must let the Lord deal with you first before you worry about Him dealing with someone else.
By the way, what is or has been your relationship with this person?
---Elder on 1/14/10|
I don't think so..if he did that it might make things worse..but if he has the chance to talk to that person, he can remind him that if he/she does not forgive, then God will not forgive him/her.
---a_friend on 1/14/10|
Cluny, what do you mean by go after? Counsel? He's had TONS for ten years.
Can you please give me scripture reference that says a Pastor should do that...please?
---Donna on 1/14/10|
As a matter of fact, the shepherd is supposed to go after the errant sheep, not drive it further away.
---Cluny on 1/14/10|