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Faith Without Works Biblical

What does the Bible say will happen to those who have faith without works, will they be saved, or cast into the fire?

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 ---miche3754 on 1/15/10
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Lee, in all the years I've followed Jesus, not once has He led me into a Totoo parlor.

Faith without works IS DEAD! Absolutely. Faith is OBEDIENCE to those things God has given us and revealed to us.

I am not my own, I was bought with a price. Therefore I was purchased for a PURPOSE, to Glorify God in ALL my being, Body soul and spirit.

Now Christ in me is outworking these truths, and the result is, HIS works in me don't result in tatoos.

Just because in Leviticus fathers were forbidden to prostitute their daughters doesn't mean it does not apply to today! OH that's OT Law. Phooy!

Lee, now I understand WHY so many Arminians are questioning GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/10

---Lee1538 on 1/21/102 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God, as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
---exzucuh on 1/21/10

The Bible says that "faith without works is dead, and works without faith is dead also". Jesus said "He who abides in me and I in him bears much fruit." If you are living a fruitless life, according to Jesus, you do not abide in him, nor him in you. It is a scary thought but the Bible makes it clear that "a tree is known by its fruits".
---Jed on 1/21/10

//Today the majority of professing Christians are worldly to begin with.

That truly is a judgment on the Lord's church.

It is best that we view the beam in our own eyes before we criticize what may or may not be in the eyes of others.

As to tatooes, John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.

Do you Calvinists have that sort of problem?
---Lee1538 on 1/21/10

Im really not shocked to see all these comments. 2 Tim 3 said as much, in the last days people will be lovers of self more than lovers of God.

Today the majority of professing Christians are worldly to begin with. Scripture in the NT tells us our BODIES are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and our body, soul and spirit are to be sanctified.

Sanctification means to be set apart. Just like in the OT, not having tattoos set Israel Apart from the heathen world. SET apart is being set apart FROM the world, and your OBEDIENCE leads to overcoming the world!

Let no MAN(false teachers) take your crown!!

May God Bless and KEEP those who SERIOUSLY with all sincerely LOVE the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Cursed be the man trusting in man, exalting him above the Lord.

--- Kathr :

Sister, God has given the members of Christ Gifts, some prophets, some teachers ... etc, and to acknowledge these Gifts is to exalt the one who gave these Gifts.

MakrV's not a respecter of person just b/c he recognizes God's Gifts & points-out a Creditable Teacher in the Truth.

Your last two post has done nothing but reveal your thrones of bearing false witness against one Brother in Christ, just to try & shame another(MarkV) for acknowledging God's Gifts & Truth.

Kathr, Being 'Dead to sin' : God's Grace is Sufficient to keep you, despite these 'Thorns' in your side !!
---Shawn.M.T. on 1/21/10

kathr//I don't believe a Born Again Christian should get worldly tatoos after they are saved.

Of course, that is only a personal opinion.

While I would never get a tatoo, I would not find it unbiblical for someone else to get one. While the Bible forbids the cutting of oneself, there is nothing in the Bible that forbids tatooes.

I, for one, do not like lemon-chocolate ice cream but would not even consider making it part of my religious beliefs..

Do Calvinists believe that?

---Lee1538 on 1/21/10

Kathr, you are a sick lady. Who really needs help. I just prayed for you a while ago. I really meant it.
---MarkV. on 1/21/10

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily,

verily, I say unto you,

Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:

but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Are you free of sin? The servant of sin does not abide in the house forever.
---exzucuh on 1/21/10

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1 Peter 2:15-16 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
---exzucuh on 1/21/10

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Acts 14:26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
---exzucuh on 1/21/10

MarkV, many things ShawnMT says i like, and some I DON'T. However YOU should know this too, because there are things YOU don't agree with ShawnMT about either.

I don't believe a Born Again Christian should get worldly tatoos after they are saved. ShawnMT says it's OK. BECAUSE we're under GRACE now.....wrong answer! Since when does GRACE give us liberty to go back into the world...NEVER!!! That 's a perversion of GRACE.

NO ONE should be EXALTING anyone here. We're here to EXALT Jesus Christ and HE ALONE...not MAN!! Yet MarkV, all you do is run from one blog to another EXALTING one over another and trying to cause trouble if we don't agree with the one YOU EXALTED!

Again MarkV, your carnality is really showing through!
---kathr4453 on 1/21/10

Kathr, I believe Shawn T, to be one of the most creditable teachers on this website. What he speaks is truth. He is not perfect and he knows it and never claims to be. He explains things very clearly and has always been very curtious to everyone, even those who try to trash what he says.
What you need to do is listen for a change, and stop attacking those who speak the Truth with love. What you are doing is restricting the Word of God to go out because of some hidden agenda you have. You promised to be different this year. I was hoping you would but you cannot seem to move forward because you have some unforgiven part in you that you have not taken care of. We need for you to help us with the Word, not be against us.
---MarkV. on 1/21/10

Jas 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Jas 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, dont you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

We do not gain salvation through works. Works are the expression of God's love through those who are already saved. Works without faith is useless and faith without works is not faith.
---biblemike on 1/20/10

-- Kathr :

Sister, The Brethren greet one another with a holy kiss. The salutation "Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?" is my greeting !!

We're sharing God's Word, endeavoring to speak it in Spirit & Truth. When we see the errors of our ways, we thank God for giving us a Heart to repent and let things lay in Forgiveness. So don't hold onto & carry around with you the repented mistakes of others, just to throw in their face & revell-on about it : b/c it only hinders your Spiritual Walk.

BTW Kathr, Christ didn't speak "those" words. That being the Truth : Your issue is not so much with what follows the greeting but with the fact its a signature greeting from me. Making your post more than just rudeness.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/20/10

Shawn T, "whosoever has an ear to hear" is the problem with so many. They just don't hear and understand the Word of God.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10

I don't want to be rude here, but when Shawn MT says "whosoever has an ear to hear" and then uses his/her own words I consider a problem. Those words were spoken by Christ, and HIS WORDS ALONE are spirit and truth.

Sorry ShawnMT, but you used those words on another blog and said Adam could disallow Eve's sin.....I didn't hear that because God never said it.

We must be careful MarkV not to put people down because we fail to understand/believe ALL of ShawnMT's words!

Now if ShawnMT followed that with GOD"S WORD that would be a different issue!
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10

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Shawn T, "whosoever has an ear to hear" is the problem with so many. They just don't hear and understand the Word of God. Some feel they are sinless and perfected already. Others, who follow a perticular law want everyone to follow the same law or you are not worthy of salvation. Yet, again others feel if you sin after been born again you lose what God has already given you. And you show them that God chasten's His children and they still don't believe. They don't even believe in the power of God Sovereignty. But they believe in man's sovereignty.
I always asked myself why these people cannot understand" and it is as you say, they have no ears to hear. They only hear themselves.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10

--kathr4453 on 1/19/10 I know now you do not read what I write. And that you have a serious problem.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10
ex, i know exactly what you wrote. You said Jesus was not born of Mary's flesh. Now because of that belief you admit you do not believe Jesus came in teh flesh...John means Mary's/human flesh. For only THAT flesh could take away your sin to begin with. GOD FLESH is what Jesus has now..Glorified flesh...and that flesh can never die!
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10

--kathr4453 on 1/19/10 I know now you do not read what I write. And that you have a serious problem.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Don't misconstrue parables, like in Luke 12, b/c not everyone who serves the Lord' Name is Saved. Matt.7:21-23

God's Grace through Faith in the Finished Works of Christ is the Work by which we have been Saved, and it's also the Work which keeps us Saved, b/c we're now Dead to sin & no longer Live therein.

Whosoever is Saved, gains a repenting Heart in Christ, striving to be perfect as He is Perfect. But it does not mean we will never again commit a sin nor that that sin will pluck us out of the Lord's Hands. Our flesh will always fall short of God's Glory, but we're kept unto Salvation by God's Grace which is sufficient, despite any thrones left in our sides. 2Cor.12:7-9
---Shawn.M.T on 1/19/10

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Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians 1:23-24 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.

Paul preached to be conformed to the image of Christ and by his works they saw his faith and Golrified God that they saw in him.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

1 John 4:3-5 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

EX, you don't believe Jesus came in the flesh do you?

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/10

I am not going to say that God does not save people on their death bed, Because he does. But I would not want to take a chance like that
myself knowing that the 5 foolish virgins had the door slammed in their face for waiting around to the last minute to try to get things
right with God. To whom much is given much is required.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

Jesus only calls servants of those that are saved. He calls backsliders evil servants.

Matthew 24:46-51 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

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---kathr4453 on 1/19/10 Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not
>--> blot out <---<, his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

If your name is written in the book of life
that means you are saved.

But if your name is blotted out that means you are not saved any more.

If you overcome your flesh by taking up your cross, and following Jesus. You will not be blotted out. But calling Jesus a liar over and over is not following him.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

Mark_Eaton, James is telling us from the very beginning that TRIALS/SUFFERING will come to ALL who are saved to CONFORM us to His Image. TRUE faith ENDURES regardless. How PAINFUL it must have been for Abraham to be asked to sacrifice his only son.
James is for the spiritually MATURE who have the mind of Christ, who understand Romans 6-8!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/18/10

WOW, sis, Awesome!

Brother, The Leap of Faith of a man on his death-bed, who accepts Christ, is a Work of Faith which changes his Heart : and given time, more Works of Faith will manifest from his Heart.
---ShawnM.T. on 1/18/10

AMEN, Shawn!!
---miche3754 on 1/19/10

The works that gets people saved is not the same as keeps them saved.

Luke 12:46-48 ---exzucuh on 1/19/10

ex, there is nothing here that states KEEPING you saved. It may keep you from the whip, or loss of rewards, but nothing about HELL here!
---kathr4453 on 1/19/10

The works that gets people saved is not the same as keeps them saved.

Luke 12:46-48 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
---exzucuh on 1/19/10

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This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is the work of God, not yours! You cannot work for what God has given you.
If you say, I have worked for it. You make the gift void of the promise.

This is his gift to you, the word promised to the fathers. This word promised, is the lord.
This is the word of God made flesh, look at this! Not a separate word, but the same word.

He gave you his word! Nay, sacrifice his word! You can say, even kill his word, for what? So you can now hold this word against each other? No, so you can see the forgiveness of God!

But,will you see?
---TheSeg on 1/19/10

We should be wise and help others with 'good deeds' ONLY if we aren't neglecting family or other RESPONSIBILITIES that are urgent (willing and even cheerful because we are not being irresponsible).

An example of cheerful "giving" is....

"in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon verse 14, RSV).

Have a peaceful, just, and kind spirit that God's spirit can train.

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

OR KEEP YOUR PRIDE and refuse to learn TRUTH...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
"because they refused to love the truth AND SO BE SAVED" (your choice, your soul).
---more_excellent_way on 1/19/10

Only the people who are willing to FORSAKE PRIDE will believe the "depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10). That is why so few will "enter by the strait gate".

A "work"/deed can be done for either of two reasons...

1) under COMPULSION because of feeling OBLIGATED (forced obedience).

2) of your own free will (having a spirit of Godly love). Instead of being a hypocritical "giver" of help/assistance, we should be a WILLING/cheerful "giver".

Any "work"/deed that we do to benefit others should be a PRIVELEDGE, not 'forced' "work".
---more_excellent_way on 1/19/10

More Exc. way... if the works are done, why are you on these boards? Apparently there is no teaching that needs to be done because that is a work. So why are you here?

---Ken_Rank on 1/19/10

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OUR "works" are supposed to be simply that we TRUST that Jesus did everything that is spiritually significant for our salvation.

We are to REST in The Lord and be completely relaxed/comfortable that the "works of God" were completed and finished by Jesus....

John 6:28
"Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?".

John 9:3
"made manifest in".

It takes great humility to admit that you cannot do anything to be deserving of anything Jesus has done.

Most people will not want to believe that we are not obligated (let alone ABLE) to repay anything (because PRIDE must be surrendered).
---more_excellent_way on 1/18/10

Any "good" that we do should be from our own demeanor/spirit (willing/cheerful, not having to force "obedience").

2 Corinthians 9:7
"not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver".

Have a "faith for faith" (Romans 1:17).

Even when John the Baptist was baptizing, worshippers used compliance/obedience to books and protocol to "force" the kingdom to 'come to them'...

Matthew 11:12
"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force".

All verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 1/18/10

-- Miche :

//// devils have faith in Christ. ////

Sister, Holding onto that false assumption will hinder your Spiritual Walk. James 2:19 : devils believe in the existence of one God, only b/c they're fallen angles & have been in His presence, but they don't have "Faith in Christ" !!

Anything which is not of Faith is sin : devils are incapable of becoming once again Faith Spirits b/c they are fallen angles & not of the world as mankind is, created in the Image of God, for which Christ died. Rom.8:29

--- MarkE :

Brother, The Leap of Faith of a man on his death-bed, who accepts Christ, is a Work of Faith which changes his Heart : and given time, more Works of Faith will manifest from his Heart.
---ShawnM.T. on 1/18/10

The kind of faith that James describes is an "intellectual" faith that cannot save you. The mind knows the truth but it never makes it to the heart and causes a new birth. People with this faith talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Remember, James is a practical book and Romans is a doctrinal book.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/18/10

Mark_Eaton, James is telling us from the very beginning that TRIALS/SUFFERING will come to ALL who are saved to CONFORM us to His Image. TRUE faith ENDURES regardless. How PAINFUL it must have been for Abraham to be asked to sacrifice his only son.
James is for the spiritually MATURE who have the mind of Christ, who understand Romans 6-8!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/18/10

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You want to run right to the end and skip the start.

When we accept Christ's gift and receive the new birth, we have no "works" that we offer to God. He gives us the new birth as a free gift. This is the beginning of your relationship with Christ and it is WITHOUT works. You come just as you are and God accepts you. This is the doctrinal truth.

However, as you mature in your walk with Christ, you should begin to show fruit or "works". Without them, there is a problem. Perhaps there was no new birth, perhaps you are in rebellion to the HS teaching, etc, etc. This is the practical truth.

This is what my post meant.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/18/10

Faith will produce works. Those works will be judged as regards the rewards(crowns) that a Christian can win! Those works, or lack thereof, will not be used(or judged) as regards a individual's salvation. Salvation is a free gift to the recipient had no works, or lack thereof, plays a role in the availability or the imputation of that salvation !!!
---mima on 1/18/10

Mark E,
True faith in Christ brings about the works. If it isn't producing the works of Christ in your life, then you don't have the saving faith that Christ says you should have.
SO, I believe they work hand in hand. True faith in Christ WILL produce the works of Christ because your flesh has died and it is Christ in you that is living.

Are you saying that James is a lesser book than Romans?
I don't think so. And how is James intellectual and Romans a doctrinal book when ALL scripture is for doctrinal use?
Jesus says if you aren't producing fruit you will be cut down and cast into the fire. James says that faith without works is dead. One echoes the other.
---miche3754 on 1/18/10

Jesus gave example of a sower that sowed good seed those that came up by that seed were those that were rooted in good ground. Meaning
on a foundation that you can grow and become Christ like. He said also in the parable of the wheat and the tares that the enemy sowed
Tares false doctrine while they were asleep.
Jesus said to let them grow together because when the fruit of the tares and the wheat is visible you can clearly tell the difference.
He said uproot the tares first and burn them.

Jesus can clearly tell by your doctrine you all following if you are a wheat are a tare.
His doctrine produces white Garments.
---exzucuh on 1/18/10

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From your viewpoint you must see a contradition with this verse:

Rom 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"

How can this verse and this one co-exist:

James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"

Is Romans incomplete? No, both are correct.

The kind of faith that James describes is an "intellectual" faith that cannot save you. The mind knows the truth but it never makes it to the heart and causes a new birth. People with this faith talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Remember, James is a practical book and Romans is a doctrinal book.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/18/10

I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.
As works go, you have not labored, other men labored. Not you!

For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:-

Why should I marvel at someone telling me what Christ has already done?
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

-and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Go ahead, work! Make me marvel, what works are these?
Go ahead, its your neck. Behold, the fig tree is withered away!
---TheSeg on 1/18/10

Matthew 22:10-14 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
---exzucuh on 1/18/10

I am not insisting that it takes works to be saved.
I am saying what Jesus says.
If a person has faith without works to show their faith (produce fruit), they will be cut own and cast into the fire.
Faith with no works is dead- Death!
Faith in Christ that produces works is salvation- LIFE!
Shawn said it best- A real Christian will produce good fruits, it is that simple.
Mark, Even the devils have faith in Christ and tremble. What distinguishes us from them if we have faith that doesn't produce works?
Absolutely nothing.
---miche3754 on 1/18/10

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You should be teaching that believing is the first step in salvation. Submitting to God is very important to salvation. a Christian should examine their walk with God everyday.
---miche3754 on 1/17/10

I teach just that.

My point to you is that it takes NOTHING from us to be saved.

You keep insisting that it takes works to be saved but it does not. Many have asked the question if someone accepts Christ on their deathbed are they really saved.

Based upon your posts, I would expect you to say no.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/18/10

Can you please show me scripture where Jesus said that some would have no works produced by their faith in Christ?(Mima, you can chime in too, if you want)
Jesus said that if the tree(you as a Christian) does not bear fruit(works of your faith in Christ), they will be cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matt 7:17-19, Luke 3:8-9)
What does this mean to you?
I believe if you have faith in Christ you will produce the works of the faith that you have in Christ. I believe it comes from Christians acknowledging God as the sovereign and submitting to his will.

Shawn, Steven and Lee have it on this one.
---miche3754 on 1/18/10

When a person accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior, at that moment, his spirit is adopted into God's family,His Kingdom but the soul? the mind, will, emotions? We have to discipline the soul to get in line with that born again spirit. Then our bodies will get in line, too! The battlefield is the mind! So, work to keep your soul in line with your spirit which is in line with His Spirit!!!..........Ann9843
---Ann9843 on 1/18/10

Jody's answer to this question is very good.
---mima on 1/18/10

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God is not going to Judge you and take your name out of the book of life because he did not do the works of faith in your life. If he did that would make it his fault you went to hell.

Jesus is not going to come upon you like a thief and judge you with unbelievers because God did not keep you from doing evil works.
If you submit to God he will give you the grace to overcome sin but if tou rebel and follow your lust of the flesh he will judge you for that.
---exzucuh on 1/17/10

The Bible clearly states that some will have works and some will have faith only with no works. Our works allow us to earn "crowns" and "rewards" so that those with no works would not possess any "crowns" or "rewards" but souls will be saved if they know, accept and love the Lord Jesus Christ and are of the faith. God loves them too and is no respecter of persons. It is also interesting that "the first will be last and the last will be first". We are called for good works and it is the Spirit which empowers but I realize that some will have No Works and are my equals in the eyes of God.
---Jody on 1/17/10

Oh Shawn, You know I agree with you 100%
Some people really believe this false teaching.

I believe Lee said it very well too.
And we need to tell people they should be experiencing God changing them from the inside out.
If they aren't, then they should be examining their faith and see if hey really have faith in God or if they are still relying on themselves instead of God.
We should be examining ourselves everyday to see if our walk with God is where it should be. And if we find it lacking, we need to ask God what he wants, ask him to come in and remove what ever it is that is hindering a closer walk with God.
---miche3754 on 1/17/10

Mark E,
It is unacceptable the way you wrote it because the tree that is not producing fruit will be cast into the fire and be burned up. Jesus said this and we all should be telling this too.
All Christians if they are rooted in Christ will produce good fruit and we as Christians will see no it matter how small. Its an exciting thing to see a new Christian bear their first fruit of the Spirit.
But A person that says they are a Christian but bears no fruit, I don't judge them but I stay away from because they may be a tare.
You should be teaching that believing is the first step in salvation. Submitting to God is very important to salvation. a Christian should examine their walk with God everyday.
---miche3754 on 1/17/10

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Revelation 2:9-11 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
---exzucuh on 1/17/10

Eph. 2:8-10 tells us that For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God,...

So essentially, if one is saved, it is a gift one receives thru a faith that either one has or is given to one.

As for works it is the action of God in the believers life.
---Lee1538 on 1/17/10

Revelation 3:2-5 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments, and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
---exzucuh on 1/17/10

-- Miche :

/// Christians who believe but have not died to their flesh. // a person can be a Christian without producing the fruits of the Spirit. ///

Sister, It's good to bring awareness to these false assumptions, which are Oxymoron's !!!

Paul's leading them to transform & renew their minds from being conformed to the world. It doesn't mean they have not died to their flesh nor even that they're all True Believers b/c not everyone who says "Lord Lord I'm a Christian", is a Child of God.

The old man of God's Children has been crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be destroyed and no longer serve sin. So, There's no such things as a Good Tree that doesn't produce Good Fruit.

-- Amen Bob
---Shawn.M.T. on 1/17/10

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I expected your response.

It is difficult to accept they way I wrote it but I do believe it to be fundamentally accurate.

While most us realize we can do nothing to save ourself it is a gift from God.

Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast"

We also know that without works, our faith in incomplete, it is as James says

James 2:22 "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected".

So we can be saved by the grace of God, not through works. But our faith is made perfect through our works.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/10

Every child of God born again of the Holy Spirit by grace through faith in Jesus receives their salvation, redemption, sanctification, righteousness, holiness, and are made complete in Him and through Him. God sees all of us in the same light and has no favorites. We are all given the fruits of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,and self-control. If you show love, share joy and peace, have patience and self-control, are kind, good, and gentle with others you are continuing the works of the Lord Jesus. Each one receives their individual rewards. God keeps the records because He knows and sees everything. All His children are different and only He understands and knows their faults and weaknesses.
---Bob on 1/17/10

1 Corinthians 3
Foundations for Living
1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to (A)spiritual men, but as to (B)men of flesh, as to (C)infants in Christ.
2I gave you (D)milk to drink, not solid food, for you (E)were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3for you are still fleshly. For since there is (F)jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking (G)like mere men?

Shawn, see what Paul says here? He is talking to Christians who believe but have not died to their flesh. Paul is telling them how they should be living. The corrupted Gospel is being taught. I wouldn't have asked the ? if I didn't see it.
---miche3754 on 1/17/10

Also Shawn,
You have people on here who say that a person can be a Christian without producing the fruits of the Spirit.
Don't call it an oxymoron when it is happening right in front of us.
A tree that is not producing the fruits will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
We need to be telling these so called Christians that just because they believe and go to church does not mean they will be saved.
I am not arguing with you Shawn, you know I respect you and you and I know what the Bible says, but we are talking about what people are believing. They believe its okay. You and I both know that its not.
---miche3754 on 1/17/10

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I agree with Shawn,not everyone can be a Bill Graham,or a PETER or Paul,its a changed submitted life,which is a giant work of the spirit,and choice each believer makes.I agree that we must serve,another work,love everybody,yet another work,but some people just aren,t cut out to witness.Yes I know we are to be ready to tell why we believe,and what our hope is,but there is a vast variety of works.
---tom2 on 1/16/10

-- Miche :

//// There are people that believe in Christ but have no works ////

Sister, No !!! This is another Oxymoron. There's people who lie & say they believe in Christ, but there's no person who Truly has Believing Faith in Christ without Works of Faith.

Jesus shared that many people who He never knew will say to Him 'Lord Lord'. These people were only saying Lord Lord with their lips, but within their Hearts they truly don't possess the Believing Faith in Christ by which we're Saved.

Miche, You may not always see other peoples Works of Faith but God does, through seeing into the Hearts of men.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/17/10

1 Corinthians 3 has nothing to do with this question.
It isn't about judgement day. It is how God tests the works that we do to see if they are for him or if they are driven by ourselves.
I know because there have been may times in my life where I thought I was doing the will of God but I wasn't. The work I did was burned up and I was saved. It taught me how to tell if what I was doing was God's will or not.

Steven and Eloy, I really enjoyed your posts great answers.

Shawn, There are people that believe in Christ but have no works and think they are still saved. Still I enjoyed your post.

Mark E, I agree with half of yours.
---miche3754 on 1/16/10

"Every tree which brings not forward good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire." Matthew 3:10. Jesus says: "Depart from me, all you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you all did nothing for one of the least of these, you all did nothing for me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. If a person abide not in me, that one is thrown as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them and forward into the fire, and they are burned." Matthew 25:41,45,46+ John 15:6.
---Eloy on 1/16/10

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I Agree completely with the previous post on 1/15/09

The work of faith is faith implemented through thoughts, words, and actions that correspond to the professed confidence we hold in the Father.
It is He that works through us to will and to do that which is pleasing to Him.
To quote Shawn.M.T. "There's no such thing as Faith without Works."
Father works through the believer through the faith given us to embrace and exercise, a faith that of Him, and empowered of Him.
Therefore, the question of "faith without works" is indeed Oxymoronic.:oD
Those who would attempt to rely on works deemed initiated and accomplished through their own force of will, I would refer them to Mat. 7:21,23>Rom 9:16
---josef on 1/16/10

The works of faith are two .

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

works support the true gospel and procliam to every nation. That is the design God has to bring home the redeemed. That is loving your neighbor.

If one does not have this kind of faith they have no works, YES God will judge them accordingly

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation,
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
---steven-rem7000 on 1/15/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

//// What will happen to those who have faith without works? ////

Brethren, There's no such thing as Faith without Works. This question is an 'Oxymoron'. It's like asking "What will happen to those who live without the Breath of God".

... the answer being of course, nothing b/c no one lives without the Breath of God !!

As the body is dead without the spirit, also is Faith without Works. You'll never find anyone who has Faith without Works, just as you'll never find life without the Breath of God : and unlike the body which the spirit can leave, Works never leave Faith b/c Saving Faith will always have its Works in some form or another by which we're Justified. James 2:24
---Shawn.M.T on 1/15/10

pauls letters to us the body of christ are full of faith passages try rom. 4, Eph 2:8 etc.
---michael_e on 1/15/10

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1 Corinthians 3:14,15 If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire. Jesus laid the foundation for our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith through Him and the works He done on our behalf. Every child of God is equipped and created to do good works. Our good works has nothing to do with our salvation. One might say our good works come as a result of our new nature and out of gratitude and thanks for God's amazing grace and loving kindness. All works inspired by the fruits of the Holy Spirit remain forever and those who perform them reap the rewards when they enter God's kingdom.
---Bob on 1/15/10

Nothing. All it says is that faith without works or inactive faith is dead faith.
It is just showing that everyone has faith, but if we don't put it to work it is like a computer that has been turned off. It's simply not functioning.

Yes, they will be saved. If they have Jesus their Lord then they will be saved.(Romans 10:9-10)
---Rickey on 1/15/10

The longer I study, the more I believe:

Faith + nothing = Salvation

Faith + works = Christian
---Mark_Eaton on 1/15/10

While we are not to judge ones eternal destiny or relationship to the Lord, I would suspect that faith without works will merit little or nothing in the life to come.

1 Cor. 3:12f Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-each ones work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.

If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyones work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
---Lee1538 on 1/15/10

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James 2 v's 18 & 20 & 26. Faith & works work together to serve God. Without it, your doomed, in other words, you got to use both to keep your self from being doomed.
---Lawrence on 1/15/10

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
2:14-18 tries to explain. Its not that you have to work. Because in truth, you know you cant work your way in to heaven. The lord made this clear to you.

Knowing, but even better, feeling the love of God in your heart. I know your first inclination will be to run out and tell the world. Just as, if you see someone in need and you know you can do something.
You know you will. If its God spirit in you!

Now if you know you can do something to help someone and you dont.
Then, is the love of God in you? Faith without works.
---TheSeg on 1/15/10

answering a reply Christian are commanded to know the heart, the mind will and affections . Trying the spirits is the only way one can know false doctrine from true.

2Jn 1:9 Everyone transgressing and not abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. The one abiding in the doctrine of Christ, this one has the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bear this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and do not speak a greeting to him.

Mat 15:18 But the things which come out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and these defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come forth reasonings, evil things, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, blasphemies.
---steven-rem7000 on 1/15/10

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