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False Replacement Theology

Has the church taken the place of Israel? Some are preaching replacement theology.

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 ---ron on 1/17/10
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Israel rep. by woman who married christ but because her unfaithfulness...Christ left her. This means God stop using Israel spreading Gospel through out.

The responsibility transferred to chuches. They are responsible to spread gospel over the world. the church represents woman in submission to husband. They are called earthly church which were perish. But the eternal church were ELECT, the bride of christ.

Local congregations too become Babylon at this time. She is called Mother of Harlots.
---rosalie on 2/16/10


The nation Israel was an earthly representation of God's kingdom on earth in old testament. They are the one whom God gave his laws, his word. They received so much blessing, but they become unfaithful to his word.

In the old testament God finished using the nation Israel. He transferred to the churches. They are responsible for sharing gospel over the world. Israel is no longer God's representatin kingdom. But the churches was unfaithful too...God say. 1 Pet 4:17 Judgment begins at the house of God like what happened to Nation Israel.
---rosalie on 2/15/10


Isn't the bible very clear that we have been ADDED to the SPIRITUAL ISRAEL?
not all that are Israel are Abraham's sons....
the wild branch has been engrafted upon the Olive...
we should not reject them, for theirs is the law, the scripture the prophets and the Christ in the flesh...
YES ALL THE PROMMISES to Israel are ours as well, toghether with, not instead of. the children of Abraham NO we should not boast that they are pass,
Will God, who is against divorce, divorce and remarrie? Is God yes and no at the same time?
---Andy3996 on 2/16/10


Christ DIVORCED Israel Jer 3:8,14, ...his marriage however was binding until his death

Spiritual Israel will marry Christ at his return ...most religious christianity scoff at the marriage supper as a fairy-tale-like symbol ....
---Rhonda on 2/13/10

You may find that it is physical Israel, with the proper Spirit.

The term "Spiritual Israel" is a denom thing. Remember, Christ came back, ate and drank.....they touched him. Lazarus was raised from the Dead.
---Trav on 2/15/10


The CHURCH is the people

church is NOT a building/organization or one of the many flavorful brands proclaiming christianity

many religious christianity brands do not comprehend that Spiritual Israel is the church ...AKA the people who follow Christ and his examples ...all of his examples ...not a few or the one's they like or are convenient

Christ DIVORCED Israel Jer 3:8,14, ...his marriage however was binding until his death

Spiritual Israel will marry Christ at his return ...most religious christianity scoff at the marriage supper as a fairy-tale-like symbol which is why many BRANDS of christianity call it replacement theology ...to dismiss and denigrate Gods Holy Word and its true meaning
---Rhonda on 2/13/10




Samuel on 2/12/10 The point made about the tribulation is important. I believe the Bible teaches the church will go through the Tribulation
Where do you believe the bible teaches this?
Which one of these diciples are you gonig to be under?
Matt19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
---michael_e on 2/13/10


The point made about the tribulation is important. I believe the Bible teaches the church will go through the Tribulation.

Those who believe in the Pretrib and dispensatinalism have as a part of their basis that Israel the nation is still chosen and in a future age they will be forced to undergo tribulation because they are not good enough to be taken in the rapture. It make Jews second class people. All who truly follow GOD will undergo persecution. JESUS said that.
---Samuel on 2/12/10


Romans 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off,
the grafting in is not a future event, it takes place already, so israel is the church
---francis on 2/11/10

"Broken off" a key.
Francis, Think you would like a study on word Gentile. It means Nations, or ethnos. It almost always in the New Covenant (Heb 8:8) means the divorced Nothern "nations", "ethnos" of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
A latin word. Catholics brought this confusion into scripture....but, it does/has served GOD's plan despite and to spite them.
---Trav on 2/12/10


I agree we are already grafted in,recieving the blessings of Abraham etc..but the church hasnt been "perfected" yet (Hebrews11)and the Davidic/Messiahnic Kingdom (millenium) has not been restored to Israel..we are still in the church age,the whole point of the Tribulation is that it is the "time of Jacobs sorrow" in the run up,to the restoration..its wise to keep church and Israel as distinct,as prophesied in Matthew of Jesus .. "the Glory of Israel and a light to the Gentiles"
---richard on 2/12/10


richard on 2/11/10

"Restoration is prophesied to Israel,the Messiahnic kingdom age to come,which is what the church will be "grafted" into and share in inheritance..God promised Jews that He would bring Gentiles into their covenant(in Isiah for example)."

If i understand you post correctly, it seem to indicate that the grafting in is afuture event. I do not see it that way. the grafting in has always been.

Romans 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,

the grafting in is not a future event, it takes place already, so israel is the church
---francis on 2/11/10




not "good" olive tree "bad" olive tree..only natural olive tree(israel)and wild olive tree grafted in(church)..Jesus speaking to the Jewish followers said He had "other sheep not of this fold" meaning His church...Restoration is prophesied to Israel,the Messiahnic kingdom age to come,which is what the church will be "grafted" into and share in inheritance..God promised Jews that He would bring Gentiles into their covenant(in Isiah for example)..
---richard on 2/11/10


Trav, no matter how you dress it or give it a name, in the end it will be the elect who are saved from Israel no matter the tribe, and them only. They will have to receive Christ by faith in order to be saved. Now if you are saying that there is a special way for those who reject Christ to make it in, without Christ and only because God said so, I would have to read that there is another way then through Christ, then we would have a bigger problem.
---MarkV. on 2/11/10


kathr4453 on 2/10/10
When Jesus was born He left Glory ( John 17) and became a servant unto death. This is what Israel (well most) didn't understand. They were waiting for the KING right then to take over and overthrow gentile power.
Romans 9= Israel's past
Romans 10= Israel's present
Romans 11= Israel's future

Thank you and God Bless
---michael_e on 2/11/10


Go back to the TWO OLIVE TREE teaching.
There were only two trees, one good olive and one bad olive tree.
---francis on 2/10/10

Well, one could say...Israel is the Church..Eklesia and be one step more accurate.
Israel, divorced and Judah were known as Olive trees plus 137 more names, like bessed, rod of inheritance etc.

But, they were the only ones ever called that.
---Trav on 2/10/10


replacement theory is dead wrong

The church did not replace israel, the church IS israel.

Nothing has been replaced, israel has always and only been those of faith in christ.

be it faith in the comming christ, or faith in the christ who came and died.

israel has always been those of faith.

Go back to the TWO OLIVE TREE teaching.
There were only two trees, one good olive and one bad olive tree.

Those who did not have faith were cut off, and those of the bad olive tree who had faith were grafted in.

Thus the believing gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree/ israel / the church.

No replacement, just a logical and spiritual conclusion of FAITH
---francis on 2/10/10


Samuel,
Romans 9= Israel's past
Romans 10= Israel's present
Romans 11= Israel's future.

Nowhere in Romans 11 (not 12) does it ever say Gentiles replaced Israel. That is what Paul means by being high minded and ignorant about God's plan.

Jesus had to suffer and die before He could fulfill the promise AS THE GLORIFIED King..." The King in all His Glory ( means resurrected Christ/Messiah)to Earthly Israel the Nation.

When Jesus was born He left Glory ( John 17) and became a servant unto death. This is what Israel (well most) didn't understand. They were waiting for the KING right then to take over and overthrow gentile power.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/10


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Samuel on 2/10/10

Those of you who say Replacement Theology is wrong please Explain Romans 9 which states that It is by faith a person is of Israel not by works or Birth.

Also explain Romans 12 which says Gentiles replaced Israelites by birth when they were cut off.
what verses were you referring to
---michael_e on 2/10/10


First Replacment Theology is order then the New dispensationalist view which is a 20 th century creation.

Those of you who say Replacement Theology is wrong please Explain Romans 9 which states that It is by faith a person is of Israel not by works or Birth.

Also explain Romans 12 which says Gentiles replaced Israelites by birth when they were cut off.

I see here many saying replcement is wrong but none explaining what these verse mean.
---Samuel on 2/10/10


There is Jewish people in the flesh and Jewish people in the Spirit.
---MarkV. on 2/9/10

You're getting tangled in the forest of the context. I've been there on this subject.

First lay Jewish/jews/judah aside. GOD has for a time.
Refocus on the other Nations/house of Israel. These are the "Lost Sheep". Christ was sent for. This was his mission statement. You should be looking here too. If I am or you are doesn't make any difference if you are trying to find truth right? You are going to honor GOD...right?
Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
John 10:14<
---Trav on 2/10/10


Trav, where is this stated,
"He said he would remarry...but he couldn't. He would break his own law of marriage. "
I find no such words.
---MarkV. on 2/9/10

I condensed story leading too...Heb 8:8.
Here is the promise to ISRAEL.

Isaiah 62:4
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: ....
Here is another appeal...
They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers, yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 3:1-3
---Trav on 2/9/10


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Trav, where is this stated,
YAHSHUA..dies. The bridgegroom is coming for the Ten Virgins, and two who were also widowed. "
I find no such words.
---MarkV. on 2/9/10

Again, I condensed knowing your knowledge of scripture. You know Christ died....you know the bridegroom cometh....you read of the Ten Virgins....these represent the Ten Nations of Israel,previously divorced. Redeemed.

Redeem: to purchase BACK something
previously in possession.

Consider another son of Abraham, Esau:....yet he loved Jacob.
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Malachi 1:1-3
---Trav on 2/9/10


Trav, where is this stated,
"He said he would remarry...but he couldn't. He would break his own law of marriage. The law states the husband must be dead to free the wife.
YAHSHUA..dies. The bridgegroom is coming for the Ten Virgins, and two who were also widowed. "

I find no such words.
What I do know is that some Jews said, "We have one father-God" Jesus said to them, if God were you father, you would love Me. You are of your father the devil. There is Jewish people in the flesh and Jewish people in the Spirit. Someone who is a called a Jew because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a law breaker is not a Jew at all.
---MarkV. on 2/9/10


In short, the Body of Christ and the Nation of Israel are not the same. When the Body is complete, God will once again deal with Israel.
---michael_e on 2/8/10

Well, we've been taught that way because the teacher/preachers see dimly, if at all. Jews do not equal all Israel.
If you condense the story, you will find that GOD was married to(Body Of) Israel...both houses were one, 13 nations.
Because of her fornications he divorced the Northern side 10 nations of. (Not Judah/Benj)
He said he would remarry...but he couldn't. He would break his own law of marriage. The law states the husband must be dead to free the wife.
YAHSHUA..dies. The bridgegroom is coming for the Ten Virgins, and two who were also widowed.
---Trav on 2/9/10


I think you are saying the "eklesia" was not. Is this what you are saying?
---Trav on 2/8/10
My point, the ascended Christ used Paul to call out the "ekklesia" the Body of Christ, without he help of the Nation of Israel, which was not prophesied. On the other hand the called out assembly, Israel from Gen 12, thru Christs earthly ministry on into the first part of Acts was part of the prophecy program. In short, the Body of Christ and the Nation of Israel are not the same. When the Body is complete, God will once again deal with Israel.
---michael_e on 2/8/10


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What was revealed to Paul was never prophesied.

---michael_e on 2/7/10

Tell me again, a little more detailed what you are saying. I would like to note/tie it perhaps.
I think you are saying the "eklesia" was not. Is this what you are saying?
---Trav on 2/8/10


Trav on 2/6/10
Christ satisfied the mystery, for Divorced Israel, and for Judah/Benj.
my point is the program from Gen 12 to the first part of Acts was addressed to the nation of Israel with few exceptions was prophesied
What was revealed to Paul was never prophesied.
---michael_e on 2/7/10


Trav
26 But NOW is made MANIFEST, and by the SCRIPTURES of the PROPHETS, (comes right after this next verse
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel,---michael_e on 2/5/10

Well, not sure exactly what your point is. But, can say this. There is still some mystery going on for the doctrines of today, that is so simple it is incredible.
Christ satisfied the mystery, for Divorced Israel, and for Judah/Benj.
See, they understood the Marriage of GOD to their nation. Paul, grasped the significance by the death of Christ to Divorced Israel. Judah, not recognizing Christ did not even realize she had been WIDOWED as well. A sin sacrifice as well.
It is perfect. Heb 8:8
---Trav on 2/6/10


Trav
26 But NOW is made MANIFEST, and by the SCRIPTURES of the PROPHETS, (comes right after this next verse
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN,(not revealed until Paul) The Body of Christ was not prophesied, unlike Acts 3:21
---michael_e on 2/5/10


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Find 2-3 scriptural witnesses. GOD provides them by Prophet....witnessing Apostle. ---Trav on 2/3/10

But prophets, jesus in his earthly ministry, or 12 make no mention of the body of christ as read in Rom. 16:25 or the gospel of grace that paul brings ..
---michael_e on 2/4/10

Michael, the following verse in Rom 16:26 points....in verse 24 the word "gospel" good news, truth. To whom? Israel if the prophets are to be believed.
25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, ....
26But NOW is made MANIFEST, and by the SCRIPTURES of the PROPHETS,
Jesus plainly told the mission Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 2/5/10


Find 2-3 scriptural witnesses. GOD provides them by Prophet....witnessing Apostle. If it says ANY one thing definitive in the N.T. It is covered/witnessed in the old. Search it, and leave the cemetarians/seminarians behind.
---Trav on 2/3/10
right as concerning the nation of israel as read in Acts 3:21. But the prophets, jesus in his earthly ministry, or the 12 make no mention of the body of christ as read in Rom. 16:25 or the gospel of grace that paul brings on the scene
---michael_e on 2/4/10


Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: ---Samuel on 2/3/10

Well you won't be guilty of calling Abe your father. Because you can't see it. The Judeans, even Esau's bunch could say it.

Typically the church world has taught erroneously that Jews/Judeans equal all Israel. Throwing the remaining unfound nations of Divorced Israel away. Trying to supplant them. Christ came for them...they are the grafting. Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31 tells us clearly. ALL Prophets...say no different. They were the voice of GOD. Not our preachers.
---Trav on 2/3/10


It shall greatly help you to understand Scripture if you mark (or take note) not only what is spoken or written, but ask of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows after.
Miles Coverdale ---michael_e on 2/3/10

If Miles, had added one more element and taught it....he would have freed millions perhaps. Who ever he was/is.

Find 2-3 scriptural witnesses. GOD provides them by Prophet....witnessing Apostle. If it says ANY one thing definitive in the N.T. It is covered/witnessed in the old. Search it, and leave the cemetarians/seminarians behind.
---Trav on 2/3/10


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It shall greatly help you to understand Scripture if you mark (or take note) not only what is spoken or written, but ask of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows after.
Miles Coverdale

maybe we don't understand what scripture is really talking about like Rom. 9 10 and 11
---michael_e on 2/3/10


Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

The Ecclesia is grafted into Israel and so is Israel. Those who were born are broken off due to unbelief.

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
---Samuel on 2/3/10


Romans 9:7

We are Israel. Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the FOUNDATION OF the APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],
---Samuel on 2/2/10

"NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS". This was the condition of the DIVORCED Nth House of Israel. The largest part of the Whole House.

Divorced Israel who is freed by the death of Christ does make up the true Eklesia as you say.
Most say the church is spiritual Israel....when it is actual Israel that is the true church.
Unless GOD and the Prophets lied. As many allude without realizing it.
---Trav on 2/2/10


The Ecclesia or the church are now the children of Abraham. Gals. Gals 3:7 Romans 9:7

We are Israel. Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
---Samuel on 2/2/10


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Good Theology must take all verses into account. Remeber in Matthew 21 JESUS said the Kingdom would be taken from Israel and given to another that is the church.
---Samuel on 2/1/10
Well, you've a point, then you ironically add your own interpretation. You stated: Taken from Israel and give to the "Church".
In one sense it is the "eklesia" called out ones of divorced Israel.
Scripture says "Nation". Now Nation is different than you're logic...church. Lets get a prophet.

10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, ...... that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
---Trav on 2/1/10


Good Theology must take all verses into account. Not just pick one or two. Remeber in Matthew 21 JESUS said the Kingdom would be taken from Israel and given to another that is the church.

Yes Paul says that all Israel will be saved but he also said Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Those who seek to work their way into heaven are not part of Israel. The church is by faith the true children of abraham. Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
---Samuel on 2/1/10


Ro 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
---biblemike on 1/20/10

(Note even they were ignorant,of a mystery) Israel (Judah) was not divorced when other house were still carries title,Israel. She is hardened, until fullness of the Northern House/nations are come in. (Gentile is a latin word R.C. word in incorrect usage).
Context in Rom 11:26....all Israel will be saved. All Israel as in another witness,convenanted : Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31, or EZ 37 and hundreds more.
What you will not find is Gentiles.
---Trav on 2/1/10


I agree with mima's earlier blog where i think she was pointing us in the direction of Ezekiel 37..a chapter that pretty much says it all on this subject..
---richard on 1/31/10


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There is no mention of church in the old testament,blindness in part has happened to Israel to bring in the fullness of the gentiles (itself a promise to Israel from the old testament).Then as promised in the old testament we shall see the "restoration"of Israel.."in thee shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" better get used to it as the whole millenium is based on Messiahnic prophecy (mainly from O.T) yet to be fullfilled..
---richard on 1/31/10


Mat 21:43, 44 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and GIVEN TO A NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof.
---Samuel on 1/28/10

Lets look at the pattern laid:
1 Chronicles 28:4
Howbeit the LORD God of Israel chose me before all the house of my father to be king over Israel for ever: for he hath chosen Judah to be the ruler, and of the house of Judah, the house of my father, and among the sons of my father he liked me to make me king over all Israel:

GIVEN TO A NATION: Northern(Divorced)House of Israel. Judah/YAHSHUA/JESUS is the ruler.

32Moreover concerning the stranger, which is not of thy people Israel, but is come from a far country for thy great name's sake, ....
---Trav on 1/29/10


JESUS spoke a parable about the Jewish people who decided not to believe how they would be replaced.

Mat 21:38, 39 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir, come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:40, 41, 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner:


Mat 21:43, 44 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
---Samuel on 1/28/10


Trav, you are speaking falsehood. Until you get saved you will continue to bear false witness and to beleive whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 1/28/10


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The everlasting covenant is to the faithful who keep the covenant, and not to any of the breakers of the covenant. God's covenant is conditional upon obeying his commandments, but if you discard his Word then you no longer have his covenant. As Strongax said earlier, many go through outward motions of following God's commandment, even getting circumcised, assembling for church, getting baptized, reciting prayers, taking communion, etc., but they have not repented their life up to Jesus and embraced his life in the place of their own. Therefore for all their outward motions that they do they are still abiding in the darkness apart from the covenant.
---Eloy on 1/28/10


The everlasting covenant is to the faithful who keep the covenant, and not to any of the breakers of the covenant. God's covenant is conditional upon obeying his commandments, but if you discard his Word then you no longer have his covenant. As Strongax said earlier, many go through outward motions of following God's commandment, even getting circumcised, assembling for church, getting baptized, reciting prayers, taking communion, etc., but they have not repented their life up to Jesus and embraced his life in the place of their own. Therefore for all their outward motions that they do, they are still abiding in the darkness apart from the covenant.
---Eloy on 1/28/10


Trav, I am not missing anyone.
God does not care what nationality or race a soul is....
---Eloy on 1/28/10
To your understanding, correct.
You are adding too and taking away.... fine for you but, not for me. I don't post for you, since you will not see....but, for those he came for that they will be free.
Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, ....

Psalm 105:10
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Psalm 130:7
Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
---Trav on 1/28/10


Trav, I am not missing anyone. Christ came in the flesh, and those whom receive him are his for eternity, and those whom reject him are not his for eternity. God does not care what nationality or race a soul is, only that the soul accepts his grace: when they reject him then there is nothing left for that soul because they have rejected their only salvation. If you are drowning in the ocean and I throw you an inner tube or a life preserver to rescue you, but you refuse to grab hold of the life preserver, then you have chosen your own fate: this is fated theodicy and it is very difficult for God to work with. Just as the people pounded upon the ark when the waters rose up, but they had their time to accept his salvation before the wrath came.
---Eloy on 1/28/10


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Trav, Please get discernment. Christ is not coming to recieve any that are antiChrist, Jew nor nonJew,....---Eloy on 1/27/10

Eloy, I discern this. You equate the anti-christ NAMED Jews/Judean to be Israel. You probably equate them to be all Israel.
Your are missing the Lost Sheep nations.

Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
We are plainly told of the two houses. Can you not see?
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF Israel AND with the HOUSE OF Judah:
---Trav on 1/27/10


Trav, Please get discernment. Christ is not coming to recieve any that are antiChrist, Jew nor nonJew, but he is coming for his holy church all made true Jews through consecration into his own life. The sinful Jew whom rejects Christ and slew him upon the tree is not the betrothed, God forbid, but on the contrary, Only the soul whom loves and follows Christ is the betrothed, holy, acceptable unto God, and presented without spot nor wrinkle. You will not find any whom reject Christ together with us in Christ's kingdom of God.
---Eloy on 1/27/10


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Paul says not all who say they are Israel really are.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.


Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Who was broken off? What were we grafted into?

Eph 2:12,13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
We are now in covenant not those who do not believe.
---Samuel on 1/27/10


Michael, reread my posting below: Jesus of the trribe of Judah is the Israel of God, ...---Eloy on 1/27/10

Judah, is one thirteeth of Israel. And never equals All Israel. Ever. Jesus never made the remark you did above.

All nations of Israel are found by GOD, whether we find them or not. Someone posted scripture below pertaining.

Heb 8:8 the N.Covenant is too All Israel...both separated houses.

Whether we are Israel, or whether we are not we should honor GODs choice of wife. Trying to circumvent the, betrothed does not gain favor.
---Trav on 1/27/10


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Michael, reread my posting below: Jesus of the trribe of Judah is the Israel of God, and all whom are baptized into Christ have put on Christ, and if Christ's, then are you all Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Christ is the heir, and we are joint-heirs with him, together along with the believing Jew: but the antiChrist Jew is none of his and will receive the recompense which is mete for their error in the lake fire and brimstone.
---Eloy on 1/27/10


eloy, i don't see the scripture where the the body of christ replaces the nation of israel
---michael_e on 1/26/10


Michael, Not every Jew is a real Jew, for the sinner Jew and the sinner nonJew are both likewise condemned, and only the righteous will inherit the kingdom of God. In Jesus' day the Jews in sin had the same deception and believed that they were automatically saved, because they said, "We have Abraham for our father, Abraham the friend of God, whom God has promised to bless him and his seed." But God says: "Abraham I know and his righteous seed I know: but you dead branch, who are you? You are cursed and will be thrown into the everlasting fire."
---Eloy on 1/26/10


No mention of the church, body of christ replacing israel

Matt 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel
Rom.11:1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin
Rom.11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---michael_e on 1/25/10


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God is not a prejudicial racist. God does not care if you are a native Jew, nor even if you are an Israeli: but God cares moreso whether your heart is right with him or not, for no matter what race you are he looks upon each person's heart, and judges accordingly. "Not being for the appearnace, a Jew, nor the appearance in flesh, circumcision, but the hidden in whom a Jew, and circumcision of heart, in spirit: Seeing one God which will justify the circumcision by obedience, and uncircumcision through obedience." Romans 2:28,29+ 3:30.
---Eloy on 1/25/10


Replacement theology in at worst anti-Israel and anti-biblical. And at best is a lack of knowledge of the word of God.
---mima on 1/18/10

It is anti-prophet...for an extended description also.
These two verses below give a glimpse of something no denom wants revived it seems. The other nations of Israel. The disciples speak of them,new covenant speaks of them....but, no churchy denom will.Hmmmmm.

Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1-3
---Trav on 1/25/10


There are the blessed Jews: "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If all you continue in my word, you all are my disciples indeed." And there are the condemned Jews: "Jesus said to those Jews which sought to kill him, "I know you all are Abraham's offspring, but you all seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you: this did not Abraham. All you are from the father who's devil, and the desires of your father you all will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stands not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. He that is of God hears God's words: you all therefore hear not, because you all are not of God."
---Eloy on 1/23/10


Truly, truly, I say to you (Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews)
john 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Rom.15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Heb.6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
---michael_e on 1/22/10


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Who are God's chosen people? and who are the true Jews? Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a person be born again, that one cannot enter into the kingdom of God. For whosoever will Do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. If a person love me, that one will keep my commandments: and I will raise that one up at the last day. That one who overcomes will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with Father of me on his throne."
---Eloy on 1/22/10


scripture always speaks louder than thoughts

Rom.11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin
---michael_e on 1/22/10


"God is no excuser of persons. Or he God of Jews only? and not also of nations? Yes, of nations also. And he has made of One Blood All Nations of men for to dwell upon all the face of the earth: seeing there is not a difference, as each sinned, indeed whoever lacking glory of God. Not being for the appearance, a Jew, nor the appearance in flesh, circumcision, but the hidden in whom a Jew, and circumcision of heart, in spirit. For we are all the sires of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek: for you all are one in Christ Jesus. And if you all Christ's, then are you all Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
---Eloy on 1/22/10


the body of christ has not replaced the nation of israel

Rom.11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom.11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
---michael_e on 1/21/10


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Ro 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
The deliverer will come from Zion,
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.
Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account, but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
Ro 11:29 for Gods gifts and his call are irrevocable.
---biblemike on 1/20/10


"He came to his own, and his own received him not, but have done to him whatsoever they lusted, and have violated and by wicked hands have crucified and slain the Lord of glory. They have said among themselves, This is the heir, Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be our's. And they seized him, and cast out of the vineyard, and slew. When the Lord comes, what will he do to these? These sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness: there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For whosoever will reject me in front of men will be rejected in front of the angels of God. And the kingdom of God will be taken from the sons of the kingdom, and given to others bringing forward the fruits thereof." Read- Gal.3:26-29.
---Eloy on 1/20/10


Mima, I'd say it means that the casting away of the disobedient Jews has made way for Gentiles to be reconciled by being grafted in where the Jews were. But "life from the dead" would mean coming alive God's love that takes us out of being spiritually dead in sin. And Paul shares about Jesus, saying, "For if when we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." (Romans 5:10) Like this, their being cast away has meant reconciliation for Gentiles, but much more can be how their obedience they can minister for people to come out from the dead in sin, and into the eternal love life of God.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/19/10


Considering Romans 11 let us look closely at verse 15, and it says,"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead"

Many understand that Israel has been placed in the back burner on order for the Gentiles to be reconciled to God. But please notice the rest of the verse, "the receiving of them be, but life from the dead." This indicates that the Israelis, either as a nation or individually, will be raised from the dead!!! What do you think?
Feel free to criticize.
---mima on 1/19/10


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When we read Romans 11 we see that as believers we have been graffed into the Olive Tree. In Ephesians 2 we see we WERE gentiles in the flesh, HAD no hope, WERE not partakers of the covenants, and WERE aliens of the Commonwealth of Israel. But now through the blood of Messiah, we are no aliens of the Commonwealth of Israel, we are fellow citizens.

We do not replace we become. The new covenant is made ONLY with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. (Jer. 31:31-34/Heb. 8) There is no mention of anyone else in the prophecy. So either we are part of Israel as per Eph. 2, or we are not a part of the new covenant.

Peace.
Ken
---Ken_Rank on 1/19/10


True "Israel" is, and has always been the called of God, who will persevere, prevail, and overcome as prince and princess of The King of kings. Israel is not a nationality or belief system, it is a persistent spiritual mindset focused on the One True God, made known to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and revealed in Jesus.
---joseph on 1/19/10


Replacement theory:

Based on the Bible, the Church is Israel. It did not replace Israel, it IS Israel

Romans 11:24 Two trees: One is Clearly Israel, one is unbelieving Gentiles. Some of the unbelieving Jews are cut off, the believing Gentiles are grafted into Israel

Believing gentiles are not grafted into Judiasm, but into the Church/ christianity.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

Romans 15:27 It hath pleased them verily, and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
---Francis on 1/18/10


Romans 11:11-32. Only the rebellious branches have been replaced.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/18/10


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I am not sure what people call Replacement Theology. But I do know that the Bible says "All who are in Christ are Abraham's seed". And as we well know Abraham's seed is the Jews.

In any matter, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes unto the Father except through me." The idea that the Jews are automatically saved without having to accept Jesus is not biblical. The Bible says through one man's sin death entered into the human race. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus' Blood is the requirment for all mankind to enter the Kingdom of God.
---Jed on 1/18/10


The unanimous teaching of Christianity of all stripes from the earliest times until today is that the Church IS Israel.
---Cluny on 1/18/10


Replacement theology in at worst anti-Israel and anti-biblical. And at best is a lack of knowledge of the word of God.
---mima on 1/18/10


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