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Pat Robertson Haiti Comment

What are your feelings about Pat Robertson's comment about Haiti? Do only Christians, or people you believe have the potential to become Christian, deserve help?

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 ---Deb on 1/17/10
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Mark,

To the present,---are you implying that the Haitians are somehow a cancer that must be cut out? That their deaths and suffering are part of "god's plan?"

How about the Holocaust, or Hiroshima? Or the small child whose mother who backed over her with the car?

If 'god' is in control and is good, then why doesn't he make it right to begin with and keep it that way? Aren't such events like mini and micro "Great Floods"? I thought 'god' promised never to do that again...
---atheist on 1/24/10


I always believed that Christians are taught to serve others, to help others, even our enemies, or people we don't necessarily agree with all the time. Maybe even more so with that last group. So I feel what Pat Robertson said was not Christian. Whether we like them or not, agree or disagree with their politics, agree or disagree with anything else to do with that country, this earthquake was devastating and they are suffering. If we want to be good Christians, they need our help. Comments like Robertson's do nothing to help, do everything to divide.
---Cheryl on 1/24/10


There is a scripture if you look it up and study it. Which I am about to do, that touches on this. Actually, God lead me to it, one day. Before we get to this: What are you going to do if walking along on a highway and you see someone lieing there helpless, are you going to stop and offer him some help or look away and keep going. God's compassion springs up inside of you. And you stop, bend over him. In first Timothy 5: Certain requirements had be made for the people, if they wish for the churches help. must not worship other gods. Note: Not sure if these are the same scriptures which God lead me to the other day.
---catherine on 1/24/10


Alan, Part #2 Canaanites: And it was justice to the Canaanites. Unless the Canaanites were exterminated, the Israelites would themselves be exterminated. Love and mercy for Israel demanded just what God commanded, love and mercy for the whole race demanded it. God's purpose in Israel was not merely to bless Israel, but through Israel, He planned to bless the whole human race. God's plans are vast, and it takes centuries to work them out. We look at fragments of God's infinite plan and presume to judge the whole, of which we know little or nothing about.
---MarkV. on 1/24/10


Alan, I believe the words we use as "Just" an "righteous" how we define them is different then God's. We cannot see the scope of God's works. When God commanded the distruction of the Canaanites, to us, how could that be just? Women and children were included. If that happened now everyone would be angry, and deny it came from God. But it is the same God who never changes. In the case of the Canaanites they were a moral cancer that had to be cutt off. Cutting out a cancer is a terrible job but sometimes cutting the cancer is the kindest thing the Lord can do under the circumstance. To save the human race. The command to exterminate the Canaanites was a command big in mercy and love. It was mercy and love to the Israelites.
---MarkV. on 1/24/10




MarkV "What we have here is that God is taking one step away from the responsibility of preparing a person from His creative act for hell. God doesn't take that responsibility"

But Mark, you've said that as God is omnipotent (as He is) He fore-ordains everything (which means He decides and controls everything) That does not allow that He "takes a step away from responsibility"

So, the unsaved or unelect are acting as God originally decided, and as you have said, they have no free-will in their behaviour & decisions. How can "punishment" be "just" if they are behaving as God-in-control makes them behave?

It's the use of the words that I am querying
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/24/10


Alan #2, In the Greek tense you have to realize between active and passive. In active, the subject does the acting and in the passive the subject receives the action. Now notice vv 22 is a passive, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. God is not the subject. The verb is passive. Now vv 23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory. God, there, is the subject and the verb is active. What does this tell us?
God says I prepare vessels for glory, but vessels are prepared for destruction. What we have here is that God is taking one step away from the responsibility of preparing a person from His creative act for hell. God doesn't take that responsibility. He says there are vessels that have been prepared for distruction.
---MarkV. on 1/23/10


MarkV You have said all that before, and I've told you it is not that that I am querying, but our human use of the words "just" "deserve" and "punish" when applied to our own actions.

The use of those words when we applyiy them to our actions is totally different from those which you ascribe to God for His actions.

So, I am asking ....

Are we wrong to use those words, when our meaning is so different from Gods?
Should we use other words instead?
Is our system of "justice" invalid, since it is so different from God's?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/23/10


I have no doubt in my mind that the earthquake in Haiti was allowed as a kind of Judgment against Haiti for her devotion to their pagan, demonic "religions" of "Voodoo" ("Vodun"), and their pseudo-Roman Catholicism that they mix with this Voodoo. Some 200 years ago, Haitians had made a pact with Satan, that if he would free them from under the rulership of France, then they would dedicate Haiti to him (Satan). This explains why, when GOD brought Judgment to America, via Hurricane Katrina, for America's involvment in giving the Gaza Strip away to the Palestinians...He chose to hit New Orleans, for they are an extension of Haitian Vodun. Research it before you contest this.
---Gordon on 1/23/10


Robertson's comment was pathetic and wrong. There is story after story from secular media about praise and prayers being put up at Catholic and Protestant services around the country. NBC had a story about a church service held in the roofless ruins of a sanctuary.
WE KNOW that God would save a country even for a remnant AND WE KNOW the Enriquilla-Plantain Garden fault in Haiti was predicted by geologists as overdue for a large quake. The New Madrid fault along the Mississippi river is expected to have a similar destructive earthquake repeating 1811 which temporarily reversed the flow of the river. What will he say then?
He is a brother in Christ and a crazy old man that ought to be anywhere but on the airwaves.
---larry on 1/23/10




Alan, all I can do is put down what God has to say about Himself. I am not a skeptic of Scripture. I believe in His Word with all my heart. Salvation is by the elect, predestine, purpose of God. Damnation is by the unbelief of men. John 3. Now you say how do I resolve that? I don't resolve that. But I know God is perfect and He resolves it perfectly. When we're saved, who do we thank? God. And when men go to hell, who do we blame? Them. Just take the passages in Romans 9:21-23. Here we have the Potter with power over the clay from the same lump to make whatsoever He pleases. If you notice there are vessels of wrath, at the end of vv.22, fitted to distruction. In vv.23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory.
---MarkV. on 1/23/10


Seg, You can make an opinion any time brother. I don't mind. Here is how it is Seg, I know what the Bible says about God, and let me say when the Bible speaks about God it is very clear. No parables or symbols to worry about just explicit statements from His word. Now as a Christian I believe the Word of God. And when I read passages so clear about God I believe them. They are His Words, now I might not understand all of it, but I know He said it. Here let me put one, "Remember the former things of old? for I am God, and there is no other, I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure"
---MarkV. on 1/22/10


MarkVs understanding of Acts17:28 is ALL the universe including Satan and the fallen angels, as well as the unbelieving ARE IN GOD! ( we live and move and have our being) THIS he implies is how and why God is in control of all thing, good bad and ugly.

However, a closer look at scripture tells us that IN HIM there is no darkness. Scripture also tells us there are those WITHIN and those WITHOUT. The ONLY one that is IN GOD is Christ, and only those IN CHRIST are Hidden with GOD In Christ. #Col 3 # John 17 I in them and thou in me that WE may be ONE.

The Universe, Satan, evil, unbelieving are not ONE in/or with God.
---kathr4453 on 1/22/10


Seg, #2: He declared the end from the beginning. How does that fit into the free will concept? Lets see, if man controls his own destiny, then God does not know the end. What the end will be is determined already by God. For He does what pleases Him. Now, that is what is hard for people to grasp so they deny the Words of God, or do what Kathr does and puts new meaning to them. They are simple passages. Through the prophets He made known to us what He has purposed to do in the future. The hundreds of prophecies in the Old and New T. are not so much predictions but are revelations to us of what God has purpose shall come to pass. The Psalmist says, "O Lord, how manifold are Thy works in wisdom has Thou made them all"
---MarkV. on 1/22/10


MarkV, I hear your words. I also hear like half truths.
Now listen, I in no way, am saying you are speaking in half truths!
I want to make that clear!

But to me brother, its almost as if you know, and are afraid to speak.
Your heart is telling you one thing and you mind is telling you another.
All I can say is follow your heart. You know God is not evil.
Yet all these bad things are happening to the good (and bad).
And yet, are not good things happening to the bad (and good).

Think isnt it funny how we say God can do anything!
And in the next breath say he cant do that.
Why not, because we see evil?
---TheSeg on 1/22/10


I keep looking at that poor fig tree. Just standing there, not doing anything.
For it was not in season. Christ walked by:
Did it do something?
Did he not love it?
Was it a bad tree?
Is he bad for killing a tree?

I say, No!
In time, will God not take everyone life. Yes take!
Get it through your heads, we all belong to him.

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We were made in his image, not his in our.
Though we do try! Before you jump on me, think about it.
---TheSeg on 1/22/10


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"In Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:28). If you read the context, these words were not spoken to the churches of God, not to a company of saints, but to a heathen audience, to those who worshipped "the unknown god" and who "mucked" when they heard of the resurrection of the dead. --->---MarkV. on 1/21/10

MatkV, IN HIM is IN CHRIST we live and move and have our being. Paul wasn't telling the unsaved heathen that they were IN CHRIST. But witnessing to the heathen OUT testimony IN CHRIST and because WE live and move and have our being IN CHRIST WE In Christ will be resurrected. Phil 3:1-4, Ye are dead and lour life is hidden with God In Christ was spoken TO THE CHURCH!!
---kathr4453 on 1/22/10


The comments that Pat Robertson made about Haiti was made from a position of profound ignorance and great pride.

And in terms of the evils that nations do to innocent people, Germany, Italy, England, Russia, United States, Israel, Japan, South Africa among many other nations, have done far more wickedly than Haiti.

The truth is, the christianity practiced and expoused by most professed christians is more reflective of their own prejudices than any Divine principle.
---Janze on 1/22/10


MarkV ... I am not arguing with your belief.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that my query in the last paragraph is about the use of the words "just", "punishment" and "deserved".

You say that God's "punishment" of those who behave as He decrees but are not elected by Him is "deserved" and "just".

But I'm sure you would not say that a person who did exactly what I made them do "deserved" the "just punishment" that I handed out

So God's use of those words is not the same as our use. Do you see the puzzle ... why would God give us the meaning of a word which differs from His use of the word?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/22/10


Mark ... You keep on explaining your beleif ... but trhat was not my question!!

My query is only nabout the use of the words

God is "just" when He "punishes" people for behaving just as He has decreed. They "deserve" it.

If we did that, we would not be regards as being just, & I think God would condemn us.

So there are two different meanings of those words ... God's and the meanings He gave us & expects us to use.

How come?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/22/10


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Alan8566 OF uk,

The false doctrine markv presents would have God grieving over His own foolishness. Is God really foolish? Consider the following:

Genesis 6:5,6 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

If God fore-ordained everything that comes to pass, He fore-ordained every thing the early people did. Why then did He grieve over their wickedness when every act was of His own absolute and eternal ordinance? God would be grieving over His own folly.
---James on 1/22/10


Alan, I could'nt help you before with the passages about who God is, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, holy, righteous, and merciful and in control of all things, so I don't think I can help you now either. All I can do is give you God's Word and not my opinion. What saith the Scriptures?
"Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" Eph. 1:11. When God speaks I believe it Alan. I might have a lot of questions, but that is only because I am human and don't think like God to know how that could be. But I know it is Truth. I ask myself, if He is governing the world according to some purpose, then when was that purpose made? answer, in eternity past. God knows all things because He forordained all things.
---MarkV. on 1/22/10


tom2:

If we choose to smoke or drink ourselves to death, that is certainly a matter where free will comes into play. However, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, volcanos, etc. are generally outside of the realm of our own personal choices.
---StrongAxe on 1/22/10


God never has been in control of your free will choice to make decisions.God created everything,and set it in motion,yes,God keeps it in motion,but one day he will scrap it all and start anew.THANK GOD ,cause we sure have made a mess with our decisions.
---tom2 on 1/22/10


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Strongaxe, what you say is so true. Many things will happen to all of us, and it is not because we had it coming to us. Many of the Haitians who died did not deserve what happened to them. You know since the quake sin has increased in the country because now people are desperate, hungry and stealing from each other, they lose sight of the good inside of them and become like animals.
---MarkV. on 1/22/10


Mark, my old question remains ... If God controls everything, He decides everything. the most evil person acts according to God's plan. So, no-one can act in disobedience to God.

Now, whilst God has the power to do whatever He wants with regard to the present and eternal fate of every human being ... how can that fate be described as "punishment" or as "just", or even "deserved"?

In human terms, if I "punished" someone for doing what I told/made them to do, no human, nor any court would say I was being "just" or that the punishment was "deserved"

Are our common understandings of these words wrong? But they are the meanings that God has bequeathed to us.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/22/10


MarkV.:

I am not questioning the idea that "God is in control". I was just pointing out the fallacy of assuming that "something bad happens to someone" necessarily means "that person is bad", something that the disciples assumed (in the Tower of Siloam incident) but Jesus corrected them about.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/10


Strongaxe, what you fail to understand is that nothing happens in this world without the permission of God or God allowing it to happen. Every single thing that lives has it's being under the control of God. That is something no one wants to except. Christians don't want to believe this Truths of God, "In Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:28). If you read the context, these words were not spoken to the churches of God, not to a company of saints, but to a heathen audience, to those who worshipped "the unknown god" and who "mucked" when they heard of the resurrection of the dead. "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" (Pro. 16:9).
---MarkV. on 1/21/10


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Strongaxe #2: This is a hard case to grasp by many on line. I don't know who discipled them but the God of Scripture is in control. He never loses control of anything. And if the Lord directs the steps of man, is it not proof that he is being controlled or governed by God? He also says, "There are many devices in a man's heart, nevertheless the Counsel of the Lord, that shall stand" (Pro. 19:21). No matter what man may desire and plan, it is the will of his Maker which is executed. This is the God of Scripture. Not my words but God's. And I know many will bulk at the idea that God is in control, because I have heard all the reasons why He is not, but not from Scripture, only from the hearts of humans who don't want it that way.
---MarkV. on 1/21/10


StrongAxe, please don't confuse my words. I didn't state that God uses natural disasters to chasten people, although He could. People die every day in situations which God controls. We read of God commanding the slaughter of people in time of war and sending destruction as judgement. God can do as he pleases with His creation.

In fairness, Robertson never said God caused the earthquake or that Haitians were being punished. You inferred that. He made a cause and effect relationship. He claimed that past Haitians made a deal with Satan, hence nothing but trouble thereafter. It's like saying you started smoking 50 years ago, hence you are dying of cancer today. Who knows, but if it's true it could be Satan tormenting the people, no?
---ralph7477 on 1/21/10


ralph7477:

Precisely! Many short-sighted people take a "cause and effect" attitude towards everything - i.e. if something bad happens to someone, it must be divine punishment. This is what Jesus's disciples believed (when they asked whose sin caused the man to be born blind - his, or his parents' - without considering a third option). Robertson's statement shows a similar attitude:
1) Haiti is hit by a disaster
2) God must have done it
3) Since God is just, he must be punishing them for some horrible sin

(Also, I didn't say you mentioned killing specifically, however, if God uses natural disasters to chasten, and those disasters involve large death tolls, isn't this like punishing children by killing them?)
---StrongAxe on 1/21/10


Years ago I questioned my companion how God could allow natural disasters. My wise friend replied, "Debbie, earthquakes, tornadoes, mudslides, and hurricanes are simply the result of the natural world renewing itself." When I asked how God could abandon people to suffer, I was reminded, "Every person has a free will. Everyone can turn to God for help. God is always there." To suffer is part of being human, but we don't have to suffer alone. (In my opinion, physical suffering is a cakewalk compared to spiritual suffering.)The notion that God 'picks favorites' is to diminish God's Perfection. Thanks for the input. Let your kindness spread God's love.
---Deb on 1/21/10


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Kathr, as I said before, you have a very twisted mind and in need of God's help. Again, I say, I have prayed for you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, for Satan to realise you from his hold, and that he stops tormenting and twisting your mind with words of vengence.
Concerning God, I don't know what God will do. Something else I don't know, I don't know if you are one of the reprobate or not. If you are, God will hardened your heart even more as He did with Pharaoh. If not, He will chasten you and bring you back to grace. It's all up to God. But I did pray for you.
---MarkV. on 1/21/10


We also know from the Bible that God demonstrated his love and compassion often through tragedy and misfortune. They asked Jesus "who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither this man nor his parents, but it was so that the work of God might be displayed in him." Perhaps the work of God is being displayed in the aftermath of Haiti?
---ralph7477 on 1/21/10

ralph7477 I TOTALLY AGREE! And through these tragedies WE are used as the LIGHT of the WORLD.. These are the very situations God USES to bring Glory to Himself through His Church to bring others to Christ.


So we should call this an OPPORTUNITY, not a Judgment.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/10


And if you think any genuine believer said they deserved death, then you don't know what it is to be born of the Spirit.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10

Well MarkV, these kinds of statements are made all the time. AND yes, this was made in a CALVINIST Chruch. NEO Calvinism is evil!!! Aren't you one. How GOD chose before hand those to go to hell! It's EXACTLY what YOU say all the time. What a hypocrite!

Secondly MarkV, IF GOD through some kind of Judgement sent an earthquake to Haiti, WHY then do you feel the need to help? Aren't you afraid of being turned into a pillar of salt? Did Noah fish people out of the flood? was he asked to? Maybe Lot's wife wanted to look back and see if she could help!
---kathr4453 on 1/21/10


StrongAxe, I don't know what you're going on about. Did I ever mention people being killed?

My reference to justice and chastening was made simply to point out that there is more to God than the limited description of love and compassion that you mentioned. You only have to read your Bible to understand that.

We also know from the Bible that God demonstrated his love and compassion often through tragedy and misfortune. They asked Jesus "who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither this man nor his parents, but it was so that the work of God might be displayed in him." Perhaps the work of God is being displayed in the aftermath of Haiti?
---ralph7477 on 1/21/10


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God does not have to give warnings when He is going to act against His people....The most rediculous believes are said in this website. An Almighty Sovereign Holy and Perfect God having to answer to man can only come from a carnal mind at enmity against God.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10

when in the Bible did God ever destroy anything or anyone without sending a warning first? Never. You paint God as cruel and unjust when the Bible says GOD IS LOVE. God has said he would not destroy us without warning and God says he does not lie so the statement you say here is basically calling God a liar. You may want to check that, Markv. God is not answering to man. He is keeping his word that he gave to us.
---miche3754 on 1/21/10


This statement from Michael,"He became rich trading in BLOOD DIAMONDS" really jerked me up right because about 10 years ago I received a telephone call from Africa from a missionary, who in the course of our conversation told me of a well-known evangelist staying in a hotel spending enormous amounts of money on raw diamonds. I did not ask the evangelist name and he did not voluntary it but after reading the statement of Michael's I strongly suspect that it was Pat Robertson. The man said he was certain of his facts as he worked at this hotel.
---mima on 1/21/10


ralph7477:

We, as loving parents, chasten our children, especially when they have been disobedient. This encourages them to correct their behavior. However, do we kill them when they have been REALLY bad, to chasten them? And especially, do we chasten young children who are not yet old enough to know right from wrong? Yet natural disasters like this kill many innocent children. If this is chastening, it is somewhat akin to chopping a baby's head off because his older brothers are smoking.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/10


Pat Robertson is exactly the kind of teacher that we are warned to avoid in the Jude's Epistle. All his prosperity nonsense and arrogant pretensions show that his heart is not right with the Christ who asked us to be servants. He became rich trading in BLOOD DIAMONDS while proclaiming himself to be God's spokesman. He pays himself a huge salary from the ministry even though he is already independently wealthy from doing business with those who have no business with Christ. To hear this prosperity gospel salesman say something so obscene and heretical is no surprise. He was just looking for his comission off any donations for those harmed in this tragedy. As Jesus warned, there may be a large millstone with his name on it waiting for him.
---Michael on 1/20/10


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Kathr, that story could not come from anyone other then you. You said you went to a Calvinist Church and some one said let they deserve to die. The most outragious statement anyone has ever made and it came from you. Now that is sick.
Alot of people died in Haiti, and not one person who is born of the Spirit gloried in that disaster. Only a sick mind would say such things or invent such statments only because of their disagreements on a theology. Not even Athiest gloried in their deaths.
And if you think any genuine believer said they deserved death, then you don't know what it is to be born of the Spirit.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10


God does not have to give warnings when He is going to act against His people. He will sometimes as means to get His people to change their ways and it always works. Yet, as God Omnipotent, He is not 0bligated to give warnings to anyone. The most rediculous believes are said in this website. An Almighty Sovereign Holy and Perfect God having to answer to man can only come from a carnal mind at enmity against God.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10


Maybe P.Robertson had his hand out for money when he said such, hoping he'd get paid to keep his mouth shut.
Them money grubbing tv & radio trin-ministers are liable to say anything.
The blind shall lead the blind & they both will fall into the ditch.
---Lawrence on 1/20/10


Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

For some reason, I really wanna believe He meant that. Although, ya never really know for sure: do ya? Them Haitians could be the exception to the rule. Maybe Robertson, too. Waddaya think--am I off base?
---BruceB on 1/20/10


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to bill bila 5659

disobey god & he will punish us? so what are blessings? is it more money, more materials. pat robertson thinks more money is measurement of blessings.
what about 'sow your $100 seed'? if you obey that principle, you will receive an infiniti?
what about others who steal, & cheat? they don't obey god. are they considered blessed?
so the christian equation is
obey=blesseings
disobey=curse.
but too often that does not work
---jim on 1/20/10


I remember the drought in Africa in the 80's. I went to a Calvinist Church where the pastor said THEY DESERVE TO DIE..This is God's judgment on them, because at the beginning of time they rejected God. Well, so did most all Gentiles of which my Gentile friends, YOU are a descendent of those people. JUST because you are now born here or there, you think you are a righteous person. Really!

Jesus said:
Come to the water
Stand by my side
I know you are thirsty
You won't be denied

I feel every tear drop
Where in darkness you hide
I strive to remind you
That for those tears I DIED!
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10


\\BUT wait, has anyone seen any earthquakes the same day in Africa for the same CRIME?
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10
\\

Voodoo might be a sin, but it's not a crime, at least in the USA and in most Western countries.
---Cluny on 1/20/10


Better yet, take it back to Spain. Should they not be punished for taking the lives of countless thousands, even millions? Yes, who should we blame?
Or maybe we should blame Eve or the Devil.
Will then if we are going to point.
Who said the buck start and stop here?
Dare we even speak it?

Maybe there is something to be said for the forgiveness of God.
That being said, one would be wise to take it!
And say thank you lord, for forgiving me, my unbelievable stupidly!
Which I feel, many dont understand! How dare you point!

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
---TheSeg on 1/20/10


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StrongAxw, I totally agree. Sorry I didn't make that point clearer when I said UNFORTUNATELY some people live in dangerous areas.

And YES, many did not make that choice on their own. Let me see. Those in Haiti were actually brought there from Africa through the SLAVE trade. They did not make that choice to live there to begin with. AND poverty has prevented them from leaving!

AND, now lets trace VOODOO back then to AFRICA. BUT wait, has anyone seen any earthquakes the same day in Africa for the same CRIME?
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10


kathr4453:

Most people in the world don't really have a choice in where they live. They are born somewhere, live their whole lives in the same area, and die there. They don't have the resources to pick and choose to move to somewhere safer, and even if they do, moving to other countries involves even more immigration hurdles imposed by other countries.
---StrongAxe on 1/20/10


Romans 8: 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

This WHOLE earth is part of the WHOLE creation of God, that has suffered as a result of SIN whether from when Satan or man's sin!

There're Earthquakes, volcano's, snow storms, tornadoes, hurricanes etc. Have you ever seen a hurricane begin in Wisconsin? WHY? Well, when you do...THAT IS CAUSED BY GOD!

And when you see a snow/ice storm at the equator THAT was caused by God!

AND if you choose to build millions of homes at Yellowstone Park and it blows, and thousands die...Don't blame God....only your stupidity is to blame!!!

Unfortunately many people do live in areas nno one should live..it's dangerous!
---kathr4453 on 1/20/10


Amen Kath,
God never takes the city without a warning first.
If you ask me, I think all of these floods and earth quakes, tidal waves and other stuff ARE the signs that God is getting ready to come back for his people.
I don't think God sent judgement on Haiti. I believe it is one of the warnings God is giving to the world.
---miche3754 on 1/20/10


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StrongAxe, have you actually seen the clip of Robertson's comment? There was nothing cold and spiteful about it. In fact, he concluded his remark by acknowledging the suffering of the people and how they need our help and prayers. Frankly, nobody can really disprove what he said without knowing the mind of God.

"Christians are supposed to worship a God of love and compassion..." That sounds nice. Do we not also worship a God of justice? Does He not chasten whom he loves?

And who made Pat a "Christian spokesman"? Did I miss a vote or something? He speaks for himself, that's all. Only biased individuals with an agenda reproach an entire group based on a comment of one individual.
---ralph7477 on 1/20/10


I believe what Robertson said was wrong for one reason only. Because he said it to an unbelieving world. When an unbelieving world hears an evangelical say such things they don't understand about God, it gives them more room to speak against people who are of God. If he had spoken those words to a class room of bible students on theology, they could at least check what he said with Scripture to see if God ever dealed with people in that way or not in Scripture. But the unbelieving world has no Bible or even believes in one so they use their own fallen mind to judge all Christianity. That was his fault. He was not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, but showing the world how God deals with sin, when they don't even recognize their sin.
---MarkV. on 1/20/10


ralph7477:

It isn't just that he is an evangelical Christian. If a satanist said the same things, it would not be news. However, Christians are supposed to worship a God of love and compassion, so when a Christian spokesman makes a comment that is so cold and spiteful, it brings all of Christianity in general, and God in particular, into reproach.

In the same way as if a hedonist has an affair it is not news, but it IS news if it is a religious politician or preacher who is always preaching family values and sanctity of marriage.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/10


Its so easy to say it happens, because you dont believe. Isnt it!
It cant be, because the world had no use for you, or simply ignored you.

I remember the USA just 60 years ago, need I say more.
And not that it was just the USA, but the people of the world.

I will tell you this! Those things the world has no use for, are precious!
Slowly, ever so slowly, God is taking them away. Keep looking round you.
Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain.
And yes, it is hard to see the forest for the trees.
Tell your children, God take what is his, to take!
And leave what is needful, for you as a man!
God love you!
---TheSeg on 1/19/10


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What are your feelings about Pat Robertson's comment about Haiti? Do only Christians, or people you believe have the potential to become Christian, deserve help? Deb***

Well deb, the way I see it is, if God CAUSED this as punishment NO ONE would be alive in Haiti. NO ONE made it out Sodom except Lot and family..and they were warned to leave.

God WARNED Nineveh through Jonah first, and we see at that time God did not destroy..not even one person.

Noah Preached for 125 years and WARNED of the flood to come!

Because of Adam & Eve's sin, this world too suffers from the effects of sin.

In the New Heaven and Earth no such thing will happen!
---kathr4453 on 1/19/10


Ha Lee, good story for a laugh. You've got to admit he tells it like it is.

The only reason his comments got so much hype is because he is an evangelical Christian. Piling on Christians is much in vogue and encouraged by the mainstream. There are plenty of public people who say idiotic things every day but if they are part of the "in" crowd, i.e. the liberal elite, then mum's the word or else run to their defense, a la Harry Reid.
---ralph7477 on 1/19/10


Robyn//I think Bro. Robertson's comment has been blown out of proportion.

While in Virgina Beach one year we spotted Robertson & his wife at a local restaurant. We went over to say hello to him but were totally shocked when he started apologizing for his wife's appearance saying that she used to be much better looking.

With those kind of remarks, it is amazing that she still lives with him.
---Lee1538 on 1/19/10


Bill_bila5659:

The United States is rich enough (and has a bureaucracy sufficinently free of corruption) to be able to afford to impose strict building standards to ensure that most buildings can reasonably withstand natural disasters like earthquakes, fires, hurricanes, etc. Poor countries like Haiti has no such luxury.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/10


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I think Bro. Robertson's comment has been blown out of proportion. But it may have some merit to it. We should not be so quick to judge and condemn others. He showed a lack of godly love with that comment.
We live in one of the most corrupt countries in the world(USA)if Bro Robertson' comment is true, USA should have been wiped off of the planet a long time ago. Only God can make the last decision as to why these type tragedies occur. That is why He is God and we are Not!
My heart,prayers go out to the entire Haitian community. They are in a very bad way and are in need of assistance, love and prayers. Most definiteyly God's mercy and grace, right now.
---Robyn on 1/19/10


"With malice towards none, and love for all, I will hold my peace" - Lincoln
"Judge not, lest ye be judged" - Jesus
"Man, proud man, dressed in a little brief authority, plays fantastic tricks before high heaven as to make the angels weep" - Shakespeare
"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." - Martin
"Prayer is the key in the hands of faith that unlocks the boundless resources of Omnipotence" - unknown
"Why complain about the snow on your neighbors rooftop, when your own doorstep is unclean" - Budda
"As ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." - Jesus
Love, Loves without judgement. - josef
---josef on 1/19/10


Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay:

Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay:

but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.


Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass, but the end is not by and by.

Behold the fig tree, and all the trees.
---TheSeg on 1/19/10


Lee1538, after reading your comment here and some on other sites, I just wanted to say you spell real good for someone that must be 970 years old..........
---Elder on 1/19/10


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Cluny - Yes Graham is certainly in a totally different league than Swaggart, or Robertson, however, as stated many of these oldies tend to get a little on the senile side and say things that do not contribute to the reputation of the church. They need to retire like everyone else when they become elderly.

Maybe if old Moses could have entered the Holy Land if he had a brain that was younger.
---Lee1538 on 1/18/10


Lee1538: "P. Robertson, like Graham, and Swaggart as well as other oldies, need to retire to some island someplace and not be heard from ever again."

Did Moses retire?
---Steveng on 1/18/10


\\P. Robertson, like Graham, and Swaggart as well as other oldies, need to retire to some island someplace and not be heard from ever again.
---Lee1538 on 1/18/10\\

Billy Graham, who has been retired for quite some time, is hardly in the same class as the money-grubber Robertson or the pervert Jimmy Swaggart.
---Cluny on 1/18/10


I wish people would stop looking back at the judgement on people in the Old Testament. Those don't apply to this day and age. Another mistake is using whats to come upon the world in Revelation now instead of waiting for destruction to happen as God's wrath is poured out in the endtime. We are in an age of grace and love from God and although he will not strive with man forever the Bible does tell us to forgive someone 70 X 7 who tresspasses against us,that is Gods order and don't people think God lives by his own Word? I hate to see where someone has said horrible destruction and suffering has been put on people by God for their sins. Shame on them. That is mean. If I am wrong I'd rather err on the side of benevolence than meanmouth harshness.
---Darlene_1 on 1/18/10


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I believe that had God wanted to destroy Haiti he would have first told the Christians to leave just like Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible says that rain will fall on the judge and the unjust.
---KarenD on 1/18/10


Some people when they get old acquire brains that do not function as well as they did when they were younger. Such is the case with the remarks made by Robertson, not over 80 years old.

P. Robertson, like Graham, and Swaggart as well as other oldies, need to retire to some island someplace and not be heard from ever again.
---Lee1538 on 1/18/10


People of Haiti's past did what put out curses against future people. However, no curse can effect us unless we are disobeying God and/or God allows Satan to do something to us. Also, people in Haiti helped make sure an earthquake would be so devastating, by living in buildings made of materials that would fall and kill so many people. Why not have huts and tents? Ones might say tropical storms would wipe out lightweight housing. But why not surround these with heavy-material protective walls, but not have overhead rocky material? Also, 1 Samuel 15:22-23 shows me that
*any* disobedience is as witchcraft. Every time we agree to sin for pleasure, we ourselves are making a pact with the devil.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/18/10


Deb, we are to help whoever is in need. That should be our love for neighbor. The sacrificing of oneself in some way for others. Whether Haiti or any other place. Mercy and judgment should be left up to God. We should help our brothers and sisters in Haiti. We have missionaries there from our Church of whom all are accounted for. Praise God and very sorry for all those who did not make it from other missionaries, our prayers are for their families.
Pat Robertson always has a way with words. He is saying what many others don't have the heart to say. That the country is full of sin that shows, what he forgets is, all countries are full of sin even when it doesn't show.
---MarkV. on 1/18/10


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\\Who should be helped? Right now the wheat and the tares are growing together. ....
---mima on 1/18/10\\

And which gets raptured, mima? The wheat or the tares?
---Cluny on 1/18/10


I must have missed the video where Robertson says not to help the people of Haiti. In the video I saw, he said that the quake may be a blessing in disguise in that something good may come of this, that they could rebuild and turn from the pact that they had made with the devil. He also said that we need to pray for the people of Haiti and that they as a country needed to turn to God.

While I do think the comment was distasteful and unnecessary, I think people are making more of this than necessary and taking his words out of context.

And, while I believe we as individuals should help their country, perhaps Obama should have pledged his own money to them. I for one did not vote for my tax dollars to be spent in that way.
---Jed on 1/18/10


Jesus said, "If your enemy hungers, feed him."

And the comment about "going the second mile" refers to the right Roman soldiers had to compel civilians to carry their equipment for a mile. Jesus said that in this case, we are to go TWO miles.

He also said, "Give to everyone who asks of you."

So, given what Jesus said, what do YOU think?
---Cluny on 1/18/10


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