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Approval Of New Testament

Is anyone here familiar with the criteria used by the early chruch to collect, approve and/or reject New Testament gospels and letters?

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 ---AG on 1/27/10
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Cluny, The proof that Matthew was an adolescent jew when he wrote the first two chapters of his gospel has already been posted: According to the scriptures Jesus was born on December 25, 5 B.C., and again according to the scriptures the witness of Matthew was penned by Matthew himself recording all the details of Jesus' birth, and also again according to the scriptures Jesus called Matthew, "brother" which signifies a man whom is his contemporary of a similar age as he himself.
---Eloy on 2/8/10


Has anyone besides StrongAxe and me noticed that Eloy has NEVER offered any evidence for his notion that Matthew began writing his Gospel at age 12?
---Cluny on 2/7/10


No big deal. but is anybody familiar with where the N.T. starts? Tradition isn't always right

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16.For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17.For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth
---michael_e on 2/7/10


MarkV: "StevenG, what Truth do you want me to give that I have not given already?"

Bible truth. Most of your interpretations of scripture take a detour along the path of truth.

"If you agree with all that of Eloy,"

You assume much. I never agree about what Eloy says if you've read any of my posts directed towards him. He waddles in his own delusional truth. No one could ever match the suffering Jesus went through. Jesus took the sins of the whole world. No one could ever imagine experiencing the sins of an entire world. If the entire sands of the world were sin, humans would go stir crazy and commit suicide if they experienced only one grain of it.
---Steveng on 2/7/10


exzucuh, A-men. Well said. There are not many roads to heaven, but only just one. And mankind is given an average of seventy years of life to get right with the Lord God Jesus Christ, the only real salvation.
---Eloy on 2/7/10




Trav on 2/5/10 The time of Israel is no more
Jesus is the only seed of Abraham, the only Israel, the only true inheritor of the blessing. The only way to be a Jew is in Christ the old branch is cut off. And the only way to be grafted in is through salvation by the son of God. Jesus told the Jews, if Abraham was your Father you would know who I am. He said you are of your Father the devil,
revealing that they were the seed of Satan that would be his enemy. And he crush the head of the serpent, their religion, and made a new and better way to be a Jew through him, the son of God.
---exzucuh on 2/7/10


Steveng ... MarkV tells the truth.

Those are all things that the man has claimed ... about suffereing more than Jesus & Job combined, about being the light, and about the toilet.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/7/10


StevenG, what Truth do you want me to give that I have not given already? Don't just accuse, for anyone can do that, show what truth you are talking about.
If you agree with all that of Eloy, just say so, it only tells me you believe he suffered more then Christ. And that in order for Christ to suffer more, He had to clean dirty toilets as Eloy. That's not counting Job.
---MarkV. on 2/7/10


MarkV: "...possible...Maybe...Maybe...Or maybe...

MarkV, you assume much. What about telling the truth?
---Steveng on 2/6/10


StevenG, how is it possible for Eloy to be the light Jesus saw while on the Cross? He was not born yet. Or was it because he was born again two times? Maybe it is because he is sinless? Maybe because he has the nerve that others would never have, to cut down Jesus sacrifice and exchange places with him as someone who is sinless and suffered more then Christ and Job put together. Or that he suffered more because he had to clean a dirty toilet and Jesus never had to. Or maybe it is that he has the ability to see people's hearts and know if they are saved or not. Thanks StevenG for your impute.
---MarkV. on 2/6/10




\\ God does things in dispensations. You have the dispensation of Adam before the flood. Then Noah,Abraham,Moses,Jesus. Jesus came at the end of the dispensation of Moses.\\

In other words, God does things one way one day, and changes the rules on another.

This is what dispensationalism teaches.
---Cluny on 2/5/10


MarkV: "When I first heard him say he was the light that Jesus saw on the Cross that gave me the first clue. And when he stated that he suffered more then Jesus did on the Cross and more then Job, that gave me more then I needed to know who he really was. From that time on nothing he says about Jesus is worth a bag of beans, becaue it comes with an attituted that he is more important then Jesus."

Jesus told us that we are able to perform greater miracles than he. He also said that the Holy Spirit would provide every man the knowledge he needs to do God's will. does that make him superior? Of course not. It just means that the Lord is working through that person.
---Steveng on 2/5/10


Thanks Ignatius. I'll try to get my hands on "The First Seven Ecumenical Councils".
Are there any other books you guys know of that cover the first council?
---AG on 2/5/10


The time of Moses and the Jews is over
---exzucuh on 2/5/10

This is true in part. It is the time of Israel the whole house reunited. Verified by the apostle,the prophet and the revelation. 3 of the 2,318 times by name they are mentioned below.

The New Covenant, Heb 8:8

Ezekiel 34:30
Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
---Trav on 2/5/10


The Nazarene denomination is still applied to Christians today in Palestine. Denominations in Acts: "But there rose up certain of the denomination of the Pharisees...And when Paul perceived that the one denomination were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council...For we have found this man pestilent, and a creator of dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the denomination of the Nazarenes. Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most strictest denomination of our religion I lived a Pharisee. But we desire to hear of you what you think for as concerning this denomination, we know that every where it is spoken against." Acts 15:5+ 23:6+ 24:5+ 26:5.
---Eloy on 2/5/10


God does things in dispensations. You have the dispensation of Adam before the flood. Then Noah,Abraham,Moses,Jesus. Jesus came at the end of the dispensation of Moses.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the ----end of the world--- hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The time of Moses and the Jews is over

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But --he is a Jew, which is one inwardly---, and ---circumcision is that of the heart---, ---in the spirit---, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.
---exzucuh on 2/5/10


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Trav:
So just what does the word "peacemaker" mean to you then, and to whom would it apply? If peace is only due to "those like us" and not to those outside, ---StrongAxe on 2/2/10

Ok, in your scenerio...you would be unequally yoked...as you are now. You claim Christian...but, defend an pervert voting leader. A supporter of abortion, etc, etc. br>Who do you think the sword is for the Lord advised them to sell their garments and procure?
Is a dog a neighbor? Christ specifically called a woman a dog? He did heal her daughter. And even a dog has a special place.
Matthew 15:26
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
---Trav on 2/2/10
---Trav on 2/5/10


God does not make denominations or false doctrines men do, the children of the devil.
false prophets usually meet with the devil and he comes as an Angel of light and gives them a great revelation and WA! LA! a new religion is born. True followers of Jesus are born into the church they do not join. They are the children of God because they believe his Son. they do not follow some Angel or some doctrine contrary to the Gospel. They do not have another gospel. True believes believe the word of Jesus and that word lives in them. True believers are led by the Holy Spirit. The false church is led by the doctrines of man.
---exzucuh on 2/5/10


A Rabbi once told me...

God made Mormoms, so Christians know how the Jews feel.
---PASTOR_JIM on 2/3/10

Poor ole Anti-Christ jews. Poor ole Mormons.

Both seek another way in. One misidentified and the other mislead. "Miss" being the key word.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
---Trav on 2/5/10


"This thereupon know, that in final days the people will be desecrating speakers, unholy, slanderers, not lovers of good, having a form of piety, but denying the power of it: and of these turn away from. Therefore shown plainly stands the works of the flesh, which being: oppositions, provoking, jealousies, rages, contentions, discordfulness, heresies, envying, and like things to these, which I tell you beforehand, as also I said before, that whom do such things Gods kingdom will not inherit. Now let every one that names the name of Christ depart from sin."
---Eloy on 2/5/10


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"
Can anyone recommend a documentary that covers everything that took place at the council of Nicea" (AG)

I can only recommend a book. It is called The First Seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787): Their History and Theology (Theology and Life Series 21), by Leo Donald. It covers extensively the Early Ecumenical Councils (i.e., they are consider "Ecumenical" Councils by the vast majority of Christians). Fr. Davis is a Roman Catholic and assumes a good many more Councils to be Ecumenical. However, he does cover the history of these seven early Ecumenical Councils nicely without any hard-core biases.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/4/10


Eloy-There are alot of born-again Christians in these blogs. However, in your book, a authentic Christian will believe and follow everything you say. That is why you believe all of us here are unsaved, but the Almighty consider us his Sheep. Lucifer thought he was superior to the rest. He was cast out of heaven because of his pride, and you too will be cast out unless you pray for humility. Blessed are the Meek (Matthew 5:5).

"you need to repent and get saved from your sin."

Yes, all us here to need to repent except you because you do not sin. However, Holy Scriptures tell us that you do sin (1 John 1:8). When was the last time you repented?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/4/10


//Vladimir's Axiom ...says that all great psychics and mediums suffered a head trauma..

Yes, I have heard of this before.

Well Eloy, when did you hit your head?

As to psychics who delve into the Christian faith, they often teach things that are contrary to the plain meaning of Scripture.

For example, they claim they are sinless depite the fact that 1 John 1:8 is very clear that Christians do sin.

One truly has to be blind not to see that all people sin.
---Lee1538 on 2/4/10


Can anyone recommend a documentary that covers everything that took place at the council of Nicea?
---AG on 2/4/10


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If you take a few moments to take the recommended above Bible History Quiz, I think you will find it very interesting and it will also answer your question.
---jody on 2/4/10


\\
What I was referring to was the voices she heard in her visions were the result of a brain injury she suffered while a child.\\

Vladimir's Axiom (named for my father who first postulated it) says that all great psychics and mediums suffered a head trauma (or sometimes a high fever) followed by an extended period of unconsciousness, when the walk-in spirit of divination walked in.

Among these are

Emmanual Swedenborg
Helen Keller
Edgar Cayce
Peter Hurkos

and

Ellen Gould White, whose name adds up to 666.
---Cluny on 2/4/10


Samuel //Dear Lee you have made some false statements here. EGW did not found the SDA church.

Without her there would not be an SDA church which has sanctified her extrabiblical beliefs.

What I was referring to was the voices she heard in her visions were the result of a brain injury she suffered while a child.

And like Eloy she truly believe the voices and visions she saw actually were from God despite the lack of test from Scripture.

We truly need to be suspicious of those who claim to hear God's voice, especially when they use it to judge others as old Ellen White was in the habit of doing.
---Lee1538 on 2/4/10


\\Many are called, but FEW are chosen.\\

And you actually think you're called and chosen and have entered into the narrow gate, Eloy?

||She did not claim that our teachings are the only way to JESUS but spoke of our debts to Christians of all ages.||

To be precise, she said that her messages came from the Holy Spirit, "Whenever I give you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject it as merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God."
---Cluny on 2/4/10


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"when once waited the God of longsuffering in days of Noah preparing the ark, in being FEW, this being eight lives were saved by water. And the day of the Lord will come in which the earth will be burned up. So what manner you all to be in all holy conduct and goodness. Looking for and hasting onto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire will be dissolved, and the elemnents will melt with fervent heat?" Jesus says: "Many are called, but FEW are chosen. Enter you all in at the strait gate: for wide the gate, and broad the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: How strait the gate, and narrow the way, which leads to life, and FEW there be that find it."
---Eloy on 2/4/10


Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism
---Rod4Him on 2/4/10


We can all see that Ellen White had the same problem as Eloy does, namely hearing voices that he believes are from God. Maybe some day he also will start of new religion like she did and claim that it is the only way to Jesus.

In the meantime, how do we care for those with sick minds? Lee1538

Dear Lee you have made some false statments here. EGW did not found the SDA church. She worked with others who founded it. She did not claim that our teachings are the only way to JESUS but spoke of our debts to Christians of all ages. You have the right to attack us. But please tell the truth.
---Samuel on 2/4/10


\\Is there not at least one born-again Christian in this particular blog at all except for me? O well, I'll let my light shine, for it's all worth it even if just one gets saved.
---Eloy on 2/4/10\\

You, actually think you're a light-shining born-again Christian, Eloy?

How can that be when you won't receive sound doctrine or defend your own?

You have given NO evidence that Matthew began writing his Gospel when he was 12 (or so) at the time of Jesus's birth.
---Cluny on 2/4/10


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When I first heard him say he was the light that Jesus saw on the Cross that gave me the first clue. And when he stated that he suffered more then Jesus did on the Cross and more then Job, that gave me more then I needed to know who he really was. From that time on nothing he says about Jesus is worth a bag of beans, becaue it comes with an attituted that he is more important then Jesus.
I feel for him because of what has happen to him as a child, never been loved, and rejection by his wife, and can imagine why she left, who is bless for been alive and having what he has, which is more then many others. To compare his suffering to that of Christ is blaspheme.
---MarkV. on 2/4/10


Eloy:

There are many born-again Christians on these blogs. One can tell by their attitude and the wisdom of their postings. On the other hand, there are others who either think they are born-again Christians (but are not) - it has always been so, ever since the New Testament was written.

Yet to think that one is the ONLY born-again Christian, because one is more spiritual than everyone else, shows pride and possibly even delusion - very dangerous things.
---StrongAxe on 2/4/10


Is there not at least one born-again Christian in this particular blog at all except for me? O well, I'll let my light shine, for it's all worth it even if just one gets saved.
---Eloy on 2/4/10


Ignatius, As in your name, your tongue spues out choler from the pit: for my Almighty God has told you no such thing, but that you need to repent and get saved from your sin.
---Eloy on 2/4/10


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Eloy-God told me to tell you that if you keep speaking as if you were His Prophet, the lake of fire awaits you. Who ever speaks to you in your little head is not God, but some impostor, perhaps Buddha or George Washington.

Eloy, you do not speak the Truth. That is why those who are rooted in Holy Scriptures, in the teachings of the God-Bearing Fathers, and the first Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils of the Early Church, will disregard your self proclaim prophet proclamation and your false doctrines.

Sorry Eloy, but those of us who are Spiritually Alive will not listen to the voices inside your head, instead, we will listen to Holy Scriptures. Joseph Smith also said he heard God talking to him. Are you related to him?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/3/10


A Rabbi once told me...

God made Mormoms, so Christians know how the Jews feel.
---PASTOR_JIM on 2/3/10


Do we hear the voice of God?

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

But that may be the case only if we abide in Him.

And His word tells us that we all have our sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

His voice if we hear it, will never be contrary to what we read in Scripture.

Eloy needs to realize that the voices he hears may very well not be from God but from another source - the devil or the rattlings of his own head.
---Lee1538 on 2/3/10


\\Strongax, you like many others cannot hear the voice of God because you are not spiritually discerned, and I along with many others whom are open to the voice of God do indeed hear him speak:\\

You actually think you hear the voice of God?

God told me to tell you that you never have, and He told me to ell you that you've been hearkening to an impostor.
---Cluny on 2/3/10


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//Strongax, you like many others cannot hear the voice of God because you are not spiritually discerned, ...

We can all see that Ellen White had the same problem as Eloy does, namely hearing voices that he believes are from God. Maybe some day he also will start of new religion like she did and claim that it is the only way to Jesus.

Hopefully one of these days those voices he hears will tell him to go jump in the lake and thus do us all a good service.

In the meantime, how do we care for those with sick minds?
---Lee1538 on 2/3/10


Eloy:

I prefer to go by the written word of God, rather than voices I hear in my head. While the former can be objectively verified by others, the latter cannot.

Whenever the real God actually speaks to people, his words will not contradict the written Word.

Whenever people show you that the things you say cannot possibly be in accord with written scripture, you refuse to provide any objective evidence. Instead, you accuse them of not being able to hear the voice of God.

Frankly, if the voices in your head are telling you something different than what the scriptures say, I don't WANT to hear the same voices.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/10


Strongax, you like many others cannot hear the voice of God because you are not spiritually discerned, and I along with many others whom are open to the voice of God do indeed hear him speak: but those like yourself whom diss the word from God which we speak will never hear no matter how much we speak, even if I were to pray to Jesus and ask him to cause you to hear his voice as I myself do, you still will not hear, for he will not violate mans freewill to choose to hearken or to hearken not. For he stands at the door and knocks, but many refuse to hear and open up and let him come in. That is not his fault that some like myself do heed, and some like yourself heed not.
---Eloy on 2/2/10


Ignatius, I do not care if you believe any word that I say or not, and I do not even care when you dis and blaspheme me. For the way of sinners is to mock the righteous, they have done this ever since the beginning. But it is very true that when I speak God's words and dissers mock me, this is a very clear litmus test that that mocker is not Christian, for true Christians do not dis the saints from God. Now if I were a nonChristian and spoke against the words of God and instead spoke lies and vanity, then you would probably receive my words and applaud me gladly, for so they have done with all the false prophets which have gone on before me.
---Eloy on 2/2/10


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Strongax, It is historical fact and recorded in the scriptures that Christ was born in the 2nd hour of night, between 7 and 8:00, on Dec.25th 5 B.C., and that the witness by Matthew whom recorded the details was written by Matthew himself. But you have the prerogative to believe this or not.
---Eloy on 2/2/10


Strong axe, I understand. Eloy has been in these blogs for years and that is his model. He either avoids the subject, or accuses one of not understanding the Word of God. As soon as you question anything he say, he will call you names. If you disagree with him, you are not saved in his book. Anyone who have "discuss" things with him will tell you the same thing. You can't have a honest debate with him. Well.....what can you expect from a guy who claim never sin (as he claimed many times in the past)? This is what happens when one lacks humility.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/2/10


Ignatius //Eloy say is authoritative, for he speaks (so he believes) for God. One must follow Eloy teachings or else he will label you a "heretic", "spiritually unlearned", "unsaved", etc.Don't you dare question Eloy or you are not part of God's Elect.

Very true, maybe we can elect him to be our next pope under a unified Christianity.

But first we need to get him to understand what a present tense is in the English grammar as he may wish to confess his sins.

1Jo 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

'have' is present tense, meaning NOW.
---Lee1538 on 2/2/10


Ignatius:

I know what Eloy believes on these matters. However, each time I challenge him to legitimately convince us that we ought to believe the same (by providing actual evidence), he either avoids the subject, or accuses me of not understanding the Word of God (or many worse things). I am perfectly willing to accept things that differ from what I believe *IF* someone can demonstrate with solid evicence (rather than merely claim) that I am wrong. But I won't just take someone's word of hearsay on any such matters of importance.

Jesus didn't just claim authority - he demonstrated it with his miracles and by quoting scriptures to prove his points. The apostles did much the same.
---StrongAxe on 2/2/10


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"Eloy:

You are talking a lot about hearing God's voice....However, you repeatedly make bold assertions about what did or did not happen during certain specific years during the life of Christ, yet when asked repeatedly to provide any evidence about this (other than mere personal opinion, or even personal revelation) you do not do so.
"- Strongaxe

If one actually knew Eloy for years, one will be able to figure out that whatever Eloy say is authoritative, for he speaks (so he believes) for God. One must follow Eloy teachings or else he will label you a "heretic", "spiritually unlearned", "unsaved", etc.

Don't you dare question Eloy or you are not part of God's Elect.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/2/10


Eloy, you just gave a passage that you don't believe or have faith in and now you use it to argue your point. If that passage is true, and as we know it is, then your argument that there is righteous people by nature is false. You said,
"Cluny, "The natural person receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to that one: neither can know that one, because they are spiritually discerned."
So how can the natural man be righteous by nature?
---MarkV. on 2/1/10


\\"The natural person receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to that one: neither can know that one, because they are spiritually discerned."\\

I was just reading that verse and thinking of how much it reminds me of you, Eloy.

Are you so confused you actually think you are spiritually discerning things?
---Cluny on 1/31/10


Eloy:

You are talking a lot about hearing God's voice and others not hearing it. However, you repeatedly make bold assertions about what did or did not happen during certain specific years during the life of Christ, yet when asked repeatedly to provide any evidence about this (other than mere personal opinion, or even personal revelation) you do not do so.

So what are we to conclude? That you alone of all people are given special divine insight into the life of Christ that all other Christians are not worthy to receive?

Scripture repeatedly tells us to confirm all truth by two or three witnesses, yet here we have only you. How are we expected to believe such things without corroboration or other evidence?
---StrongAxe on 2/1/10


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"Childling" indeed is a word. The suffix "-ling" is a diminutive used to modify nouns. Diminutives with the endings -kin and -let, and -ling often mean "little" or "young", or is relational to the noun affixed to it, and are gender neuter , as in "duckling", "earthling", "sibling" , "dearling" or "darling". Thus a "childing" is a small child.
---Eloy on 1/31/10


Strongax, "We are of God: he that knows God hears us, he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Then went the adversaries and took counsel how they might entangle him in talk." Strongax, since you do not really want to know the truth, you should cease asking me for it. Jesus says: "If they called the Lord of the house beelzebub, how much more them of his household? Remember the word that I said to you, If they have have kept my saying, they will keep your's also. He that is of God hears God's words: you all therefore hear not, because you all are not of God."
---Eloy on 1/31/10


Strongax, "We are of God: he that knows God hears us, he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Then went the adversaries and took counsel how they might entangle him in talk." Strongax, since you do not really want to know the truth, you should cease asking me for it. Jesus says: "If they called the Lord of the house beelzebub, how much more them of his household? Remember the word that I said to you, If they have have kept my saying, they will keep your's also. He that is of God hears God's words: you all therefore hear not, because you all are not of God."
---Eloy on 1/31/10


Cluny, "The natural person receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to that one: neither can know that one, because they are spiritually discerned." Jesus says: "A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and it was trampled down, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. Who has ears to hear, let him hear. The sower sows the word. And these are they by the wayside, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, the devil comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts."
---Eloy on 1/31/10


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\\Cluny and Strongax, Matthew was a Jew knowing about the prophecies of his Messiah, so yes he would have recorded the details that he did of Jesus' birth and the slaughter of all the 2 year old childlings and under in Bethlehem\\

Givethe evidence, other than your own opinion, for this.

And I see you didn't answer my other questions.

"Childlings" is not an English word.
---Cluny on 1/31/10


Eloy:

All this is conjecture. Sure, Matthew knew about the prophecies WHEN he wrote the gospel, but this doesn't mean he knew them at the time of Jesus's birth. It doesn't even mean he was alive (or more than an infant) at that time either.

Once again, can you show any actual SCRIPTURAL evidence that Matthew was an eyewitness to Jesus's birth and childhood?

(And, while you are at it, that Luke was too, since he also wrote of the nativity?)
---StrongAxe on 1/31/10


Cluny and Strongax, Matthew was a Jew knowing about the prophecies of his Messiah, so yes he would have recorded the details that he did of Jesus' birth and the slaughter of all the 2 year old childlings and under in Bethlehem. We know that Matthew was an adolescent because he had to know how to write the details of Jesus' birth, and later Jesus called him "brother", therefore Matthew as well as the other Apostles were Jesus' contemporaries being about the same age as he was. Know that Matthew could not have been 20 years old, a half a generation, from Jesus at Jesus' birth because then Matthew would have been a 50 year old man when Jesus called him to be his fellow disciple and Jesus would not have called him "brother".
---Eloy on 1/31/10


If you believe that God has sent the Holy Ghost at the request of Jesus, "I will ask my father to send you the comforter and He will teach you all things",then that's how. God is in control. Next time you wonder how the early church got their information, go on and ask Jesus. He will be happy to lead you to the answer.
---patra8793 on 1/31/10


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Anyone who didn't "witnesss" the birth of Jesus might have heard about it from Mary and/or Joseph, don't you think? There would be others in Bethlehem who might have been able to verify the details.
Most news was naturally passed verbally in those days.
---Donna66 on 1/30/10


\\(Also, if he witnessed Jesus's nativity, was he one of the shepherds, or on of the wise men, or what? Because there is no mention of him at all in Jesus's early life.)
---StrongAxe on 1/30/10\\

Matthew doesn't mention the shepherds. That's Luke.
---Cluny on 1/30/10


Eloy:

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Matthew actually started writing his gospel in 5 BC? Or that he was 12 years old at the time? Or that he personally witnessed Jesus's nativity? If so, I would love to see it. If not, it is a matter of personal opinion, rather than historical fact.

(Also, if he witnessed Jesus's nativity, was he one of the shepherds, or on of the wise men, or what? Because there is no mention of him at all in Jesus's early life.)
---StrongAxe on 1/30/10


Eloy, do you think that Luke was present for the Annunciation to both Zachariah and the Virgin, to say nothing about the Nativity? How could Luke, a gentile, be in the Holy Place of the Temple?

Or that John was with the Logos in heaven "in the begininng"?

If Matthew and Luke saw the birth of Christ, as you are claiming, then why didn't they talk about the life of Jesus before His ministry?

Do you also think that the Apostles carried copies of the four canonical Gospels when they began "preaching the Gospel" after Pentecost?

I'd love to hear your answers to thse questions.
---Cluny on 1/30/10


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\\Matthew was a young 12 year old at the time of Jesus' birth, at which time he recorded the Messiah's remarkable birth,\\

Are you saying that Matthew started writing about Jesus before Jesus even called him?

GAD!
---Cluny on 1/30/10


Cluny, Matthew did not start writing the gospel when he was 30, but he started recording the account when he was an adolescent. Matthew was a young 12 year old at the time of Jesus' birth, at which time he recorded the Messiah's remarkable birth, and then after 30 years during the time of John the baptist when he baptized people in the river, Matthew started documenting again and recorded the beginning of Jesus's ministry.
---Eloy on 1/30/10


Strongax, Many of the books in the Holy Bible were not written in one day nor even written within one year, but instead they were written over many years. Matthew was not 30 when he penned the gospel, instead it was Jesus who was 30 when he began his ministry. But Matthew started writng when he was an adolescent. Matthew began writing his gospel in 5 B.C, and finished it in 28 A.D. Obviously Matthew was witness to Jesus' noble nativity and recorded it in the first two chapters when he was about 12, and then in 26 A.D. when Matthew was 42 years old he began to pen the rest of his gospel, and he finished it in 28 A.D. when he was 44.
---Eloy on 1/30/10


Eloy:

I'm curious how Matthew wrote his gospel in 5 BC, when Jesus didn't call him until he was in his 30s (and presumably Matthew was too). If Matthew was alive in 5 BC, he would probably have been an infant.

There is no record in the New Testament of anyone writing down gospels. The only records of writings are various letters that allude to other letters. The gospel was first preached, not written, while the apostles awaited the imminent return of Christ. They only started writing everything down several decades later, when they realized that time was passing, and Jesus was not yet returning, and all the eyewitnesses were dying off - so the gospel needed to be preserved for posterity in permanent form.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/10


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the NT critia were:
1: you had to be a disciple/ apostle
2: you had to be the companion of a discipe/ apostle
3: converted family members/ brothers of jesus

In reality there is nothing New in the NT. All apostles were teaching from the OT.
---francis on 1/29/10


\\3) Date written- the scripture had to be written between 5 B.C.(from Christ's birth), and 29-30 A.D.(soon after Christ's death and resurrection). The N.T. began to be recorded by Matthew in 5 B.C., and finished by John around the 3rd decade A.D.\\

Since Christ did not begin His public ministry until He was 30 or so (25 AD, your chronology), how would Matthew have started writing it in 5 BC, when Jesus was just born--and presumably Matthew himself was barely out of diapers?

The usual dating for St. John's Gospel is 90 AD--towards the end of his life.
---Cluny on 1/29/10


The early church's acceptance of the Biblical New Testament canon:

1) Valid authorship- the scripture had to be written by an Apostle, or a holy man inspired by God.

2) Right doctrine- the scripture had to be in accord with Jesus' commandments and teachings.

3) Date written- the scripture had to be written between 5 B.C.(from Christ's birth), and 29-30 A.D.(soon after Christ's death and resurrection). The N.T. began to be recorded by Matthew in 5 B.C., and finished by John around the 3rd decade A.D.

4) Usage- the scripture had to be accepted and read in the Christian temples around the Mediterranean and Palestine and the Middle East.
---Eloy on 1/29/10


So what it boils down to is ,the NT was a creation by Catholic priests (No Jews were present) Constantine was an anti-Semite!
Legend has it, that all the books were thrown on a table, the ones that fell off were not included!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/10


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The Nicea Council simply consolidated books that were already approved as scripture. The council itself really did not decide on the books, so much as it made it official.

Many of the books were considered scripture very early on. Even Peter writes of Pauls writing as scripture. So we have ample evidence that since the first century these books were already scripture.
---PASTOR_JIM on 1/27/10


the council of LAODECIA IN 363 AD ACCEPTED ALL THE BOOKS PRESENT in the bible ,except revelation. The council of Carthage in 397 AD accepted all the books that are now in the bible.
---tom2 on 1/28/10


As I remember, there were things like:
Is a book consistent with the rest of scripture?
Is there realism, and not just a mythical tone?
Do other writers quote the book as being God-inspired?
Was a book discovered along with other books that are accepted as inspired?
And I think they simply prayed for God to give them a feel of if a book is His.
Possibly, they checked for if scripture upheld the deity of Christ and salvation by grace, as part of the consistent message.
And they would see if every part of the book had impact of God's power and grace, and not only certain parts.
---Bill_bila5659 on 1/27/10


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