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Does God Love Everybody

Proverbs 6:16-19....Does this mean that God does not love all people? Does he hate those who are committing these sins?

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 ---KarenD on 2/8/10
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Mima, sorry, but you have that wrong. God does not bring someone to life, present Christ to them and then tells you to make a choice. And if you choose wrong, you go back to been spiritually dead again, as Paul states,
There is none righteous, no not one.
There is none who understands,
"There is none who seeks after God."
The only way you will seek God is if you are spiritually alive to the things of God.
When you are brought to spiritual life by the Spirit, you will seek Christ, you will hear God's word, you will believe it by faith, and you will confess Him as your Lord and Savior, and you will cry to Him in repentance. And you will praise Him for saving you.
---MarkV. on 2/19/10


better throw these verses out with most all the bible

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

and this one
Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling,

ya really think God loves these babie
---steven-rem7000 on 2/19/10


I read the news today. Apparently he doesn't and he appears to be distributing pain and suffering randomly, irrelevent to the behavior of people. Or may he just not there...
---atheist on 2/19/10


Trav, just to finish, ...Acts 10:43 states: "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
---kathr4453 on 2/18/10

OK,avoid prophets. You should...the prophets do witness of "him" Christ.
Show where the prophets witness the rest of the verse. You can't. They don't. The scriptural point.
Verse above says "Remission", the context is Israel. A return to the previous normal condition. Heb 8:8. Israel the only one given the Law/covenants.
Israel was a WIFE. HE said he would remarry her. You would make GOD a liar for your own confused anti Prophet doctrine of the Church of Whatsyoulogic.
---Trav on 2/19/10


Faith, or Believing God will forgive you is what God Honors. So, believe God, not Calvinism. If you believe Calvinism, you'll never find salvation. Calvinism does not share God's Love and salvation to sinners. I really don't know why they are even here at all. What is their motive? I believe it is only to cause DOUBT in those who have found salvation and forgiveness through Faith in His WORD. Why do they keep telling everyone...NO, you can't be saved unless you are the elect.

I want to know how they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt THEY actually are the elect.

They seem to struggle with the very Heart of our Christian walk/and responsibility after salvation. If the WHOLE package isn't there.....something is terribly wrong.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/10




YES!!!! God loves everyone. He is willing and capable of forgiving, redeeming everyone however that grace he bestows upon us is not "irresistible grace" you must make the choice, having made the choice you can rest comfortably in the knowledge that he will grant your salvation.
---mima on 2/19/10


Any person who has read the Bible understands that one of its greatest themes is love. The Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:8)and that God showed His love to us while we were still sinners:

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. ---(Romans 5:6-8).

An interesting aspect of this passage is that it stresses that lost sinners were not righteous or good when Christ demonstrated His love for them.

TODAY is the day of GRACE! Christ took the sin of the whole world past present and future upon Himself. The ONLY thing God hates are those who have REJECTED His Gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/10


God's love is "only " found in Christ PERIOD.Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Phil3 says the same thing that i might be found in "HIM" not my religion!
outside of Christ is the wrath of God and he will judge accordingly as he has said.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity
Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psa 7:11 God is a righteous judge, and God is angry with evildoers every day.
You might want to do some word study's
---steven-rem7000 on 2/18/10


Trav, just to finish, here is a great verse concerning the Prophets:

Acts 10:43 states: "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

---kathr4453 on 2/18/10


---Trav on 2/17/10

Trav, Please finished the verse in Hebrews 1....Hebrews is all about who? JESUS CHRIST!!!!

BUT TODAY HE has Spoken to us through His Son!!!

Trav, please stick to the blog question and stop using every blog question to push your agenda!! It's rude to the ones who have posted questions. This question is not about Israel, or anything you are arguing about or trying to pick a fight about!!

I'm just not in the mood!
---kathr4453 on 2/17/10




Trav, here are a couple scriptures out of thousands

Genesis 3:15
John 3:14-17

And of coarse we have the whole book of Hebrews.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/10

O.K. but, out of the "thousands" you didn't provide a prophet for a witness.
You 1-2 punching Trav....but, All prophets testimoney and witness. Pretty brave.
What is said in Hebrews is said in Jer. Lets look at Start of Hebrews for Context.

Heb1: In the past God spoke to OUR FOREFATHERS through the PROPHETS at many times and in VARIOUS ways.

---Trav on 2/17/10


Proverbs 6:16-19
16 There are six THINGS the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

I believe this is the blog question and I believe here God does not say he hates people, unless people are THINGS.

When scolding my children, I would always say, I hate what you did...I NEVER said I hated them for what they did!
---kathr4453 on 2/17/10


Trav, here are a couple scriptures out of thousands

Genesis 3:15
John 3:14-17

And of coarse we have the whole book of Hebrews.

I noticed on another blog you said to MarkV that Israel and that other Israel? were the two becoming one new man (Ephesians) however Paul tells us that IN CHRIST, whether you are a Jew of Gentile, those who are Born Again TODAY, becoming the body of Christ are the one new man....old things pass away, and all become new. The NEW man is no longer Jew, Gentile, male female slave or free, but a NEW, a totally NEW Creation in Christ, no longer under any laws, no longer known by God after the flesh.

---kathr4453 on 2/17/10


Trav, ...shed His Blood for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD. I believe your comment I responded to seemed to disregard that fact.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/10
Armstronism? Whatever that is. I follow no doctrine/denom of man...especially those without prophets or scripture to back em up. Yours in particular. You teach error is the only reason I give you a little scripture to cause a pause. Of no effect...but, some will see.
Disregard a fact? You've yet to establish a scriptural fact.
Give all prophets to back you above dear. Let them establish the facts. Then your teaching will stand higher than the gentiles or mans. Or a gentile man.
1 Chronicles 16:13
O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
---Trav on 2/17/10


Trav, thanks for agreeing with me on God's sovereign right to choose whom He pleases. He is the Potter and we are but clay of the same lump.
Your arguments are maybe confusing to me because your language is always about Israel. And since Israel was chosen as a nation to be the object of God's love over all the other nations, and the whole of the Old Testament is concerning Israel, you have decided some time in your life to learn, study, and make the Old Testament a big part of your studies. But in the process you use very little of the New Testament to make your arguments with the exception of Heb 8:8.
And since most of my studies have been the New T. we don't seem to agree. I enjoy your comments and will continue to study what you say.
---MarkV. on 2/17/10


Yes Karen, God clearly says that he loves the righteous, and that he hates the wicked: and God has prepared a paradise for those he loves, and a hell for those he hates.
---Eloy on 2/17/10


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Trav, you are all over the place here with Armstrongism.

Jesus died on a CROSS and shed His Blood for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD. It's actually very simple to understand.

I believe your comment I responded to seemed to disregard that fact.

And we do see Abel, not being from any Northern Tribe or a Jew to begin with, placed his faith in the promised redeemer Genesis 3:15 long before any Jewish people/Nation or Law of Moses.

Job/Noah etc, as well, not being a Jew or from any tribe also sacrificed.

None here mentioned had the LAW to point to sin, however they knew they were sinners just by their actions.

And we know the LAW did not replace the EVERLASTING Covenant God revealed to Abraham.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/10


Trav, JESUS paid it all...not only for my sin (as I am a Jew.....your sin too Trav, you being a Gentile.---kathr4453 on 2/15/10
Oooh,little katty today aren't we.
Christ Paid/sacrificed for those he came to pay for or Redeem. Lost Sheep of House of Israel. Northern House Nations. By death, including judeans who accept as well. Heb8:8.
Funny thing is,can believe you are jewish. Rebellious and can't see.
Gentiles as you presume were never under the law. Gentiles translated in scripture you are referring means:"Ethnos,Nations" applys to Nth House of Israel. Divorced and mixed amongst the goyim. These had law pre-divorce. In Isa 51:7 describes son's of Abe and Sarah...prophetically. Heb 8:10.
---Trav on 2/16/10


Eloy, truely the save except the words of Christ but not the words of Eloy. Probably because you do not think you can err, and you do so many times, that the Truth cannot shine on you anymore. Truely, you should except the words of Jesus yourself that He came to save sinners.
---MarkV. on 2/15/10


MarkV, Again, I have already cited the scripures below which answer your question, but indeed your heart and mind are hardened against the truth, and therefore are not able to accept the holy scriptures which have been posted. Truly the saved accept the words from Christ, and the unsaved do not.
---Eloy on 2/15/10


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Leviticus 16:34
And this shall be an EVERLASTING statute unto YOU, to make an atonement FOR the CHILDREN of ISRAEL for all THEIR sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
---Trav on 2/15/10

Trav, Yes,OT LAW was given to Israel. If what you are arguing about is that it was to Israel for an everlasting statute, then why does it say in Hebrews 10, there is no more sacrifice for sin. Sorry Trav, JESUS paid it all...not only for my sin (as I am a Jew..I don't sacrifice any animals) but for the sin of the whole world...your sin too Trav, you being a Gentile.

Are you saying Israel will always be under animal sacrifice forever event today. WOW are you behind the times!!! Might want to brush up on Hebrews 10 !
---kathr4453 on 2/15/10


Trav, I am sorry I disagree with you on the subject of Esaau. The passages in Romans 9:13, is a quote from Malachi 1:2,3
God chose one for divine purpose and protection, and the other He left to divine judgment.
---MarkV. on 2/13/10

Well, it's a salty steak for many, and I understand. You wrote a couple of facts that are foundational to our discussion.
1.GOD chose ...for divine purpose.

2.GOD can choose.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
---Trav on 2/15/10


On the day of atonement when in the OT, lambs were slain as a covering for the sin of ALL THE PEOPLE, it was done yearly. No individual names were called out and said only they were covered.

Those who don't understand OT Law sacrifices will never understand the Gospel. ---kathr4453 on 2/13/10

Again, scripture does not back your preaching.
Why do you need GOD to do what he says he didn't/won't/cannot? He will not do different than he's covenanted.
You are a tube of clay fighting the potter.

Leviticus 16:34
And this shall be an EVERLASTING statute unto YOU, to make an atonement FOR the CHILDREN of ISRAEL for all THEIR sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
---Trav on 2/15/10


Eloy, you say, "hell continues to run over with sinners" what do you expect? for it to run over with believers? you could not answer the questions so you go back to telling me to get saved. If you do not know that Jesus is saving sinners, then you are too far gone. Not all sinners get saved. The ones that don't get saved go to hell. Only sinners need salvation. You do good in things that are harder to learn, and fail completely on the smallest ones.
---MarkV. on 2/15/10


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Markv, Hell continually runs over with sinners which have never repented and are not saved: and until you repent you will believe and say whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 2/14/10


Eloy, up until we die, Christ saves sinners. The unrighteous. Those are the people He is saving. Once you die, the judgment comes to those sinners who rejected Him. But that is at the Great White Throne of Judgment, The Day of the Lord.
But so long as a person is alive, condemned to hell, walking and rebelling against God, he still has a chance to be saved. God has to quicken his heart and bring him to faith in Jesus Christ, Otherwise he continues his path.
---MarkV. on 2/14/10


God loves everyone,but God is also righteous,and must judge everyone,and one day we all will be judged,and held accountable to God for our choices,our disobidience,Gods word says this will happen. But yes he loves everyone,but again we all are accountable.
---tom2 on 2/14/10


MarkV, I have already answered whom Christ has died for in Christ's own words: please re-read what my preaching, for I cannot make you accept the Truth when you promote the path of deception. Know that "All whom reject Christ are rejected by Christ: All whom accept Christ are accepted by Christ." I and the Lord of me makes this very plain. Again: "To Christ say Yes, then to you Christ will say Yes: But to Christ say No, then to you Christ says No." And again: "The saved obey: the condemned disobey." And once more, says the Lord: "I have made an eternal lake of fire and brimstone for all that I hate: and I have made an everlasting dwelling of joy and paradise for all that I love."
---Eloy on 2/14/10


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Pride is sin, telling lies is sin, murder is sin, making & carrying out evil plans is sin, hastily running to do evil is sin, slander is sin, causing disunity (creating schisms, causing a falling-out, being instrumental in a breach of friendship) among brethren is sin.

God hates "sin" (the actions of disobedience), but loves the "sinner" (the bond servant to sin). Jn. 3:14-21
---Leon on 2/13/10


God looked on all His creation and said that it was good, so that basically what God created He adores. He considers the work of His hand, and man, though the image of God is marred is none the less made in the image of God. In the New Testament it says, God loves the world, God loves all men. It even says that we are to do good unto all men especially of the household of faith, so we are to do good to all men for they are made in the image of God. No matter what we do in life, God still loves what is the expression of His creation.
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


On the day of atonement when in the OT, lambs were slain as a covering for the sin of ALL THE PEOPLE, it was done yearly. No individual names were called out and said only they were covered.

If God wanted to thoroughly say it was only for a certain few, we would see many forbidden to take part. The OT Covenant is a PATTERN for the New

The Good News is NOW CHRIST OUR LAMB has died ONCE AND FOR ALL meaning (including gentiles). There is no more yearly temporary sacrifice for sin.

Those who don't understand OT Law sacrifices will never understand the Gospel.
The LAW pointed to their sin, the LAMBS BLOOD COVERED THEIR SIN. If they were to depraved to know they were sinners, then why bother sacrificing?
---kathr4453 on 2/13/10


Eloy, you said,
"Mima, Because sinners do not want to bellieve in God's perfect judgment and the firey hell prepared for them, they change the unchangeable word of God into falsehood. Christ did not die for those who reject him,"
If Christ did not die for those who reject Him, Sinners, who did He die for? Can you explain that?
My Bible says,
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8. And anything without Faith is sin."
Can you explain this Eloy?
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


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"Yhwh tests the righteous: but the wicked and the one whom loves violence his soul hates. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of my house, I will love them no more. And having made a whip out of green stems he drove out all them out of the Temple. And he taught, saying to them, Is it not written, My house will be called of all nations, The house of prayer? but you all have made it a Den of robbers. The face of Yhwh against them that do evil." Psalm 11:5+ Malachi 1:2,3+ Romans 9:13+ Hosea 9:15+ John 2:15+ Mark 11:17+ Psalm 34:16. Please Read- Revelation 14:9-11.
---Eloy on 2/13/10


Mima, Because sinners do not want to bellieve in God's perfect judgment and the firey hell prepared for them, they change the unchangeable word of God into falsehood. Christ did not die for those who reject him, but only for those who accept him. The Lord God Jesus says: "I pray not for the world, except for them which you have given me, for they are yours: and all mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. Whosoever will confess me in front of persons, that one will I also confess in front of the angels of God: but the one that rejects me in front of persons, that one will I also reject in front of the angels of God."
---Eloy on 2/13/10


Did not God died for all sinners? Both those who receive him and those who reject him. All had their sin debt paid so to reject that payment is self condemnation.(hell)

I believe God loves the sinner(died for us while we were yet sinners) and hates the sin!
---mima on 2/13/10


Trav, I am sorry I disagree with you on the subject of Esaau. The passages in Romans 9:13, is a quote from Malachi 1:2,3, and does not refer to actual emotional hatred for Esaau and his offspring is not the point here. Malachi, who wrote this declaration more than 1,500 years after their deaths, was looking back at these two men-and by extension the nations (Israel-Edom) that came from their loins. God chose one for divine purpose and protection, and the other He left to divine judgment. Paul says, "is there unrighteousness with God?" God's choice of Jacob, instead of Esaau, to continue the physical line was not based on his personal merit or demerit, it was for the purpose of God according to election.
---MarkV. on 2/13/10


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Catherine, There is No love between God and sinners, and no benevolence: there is only wrath and hatred for the wicked. The rain upon the just and unjust is not for the unjust, but for the just: when you remove the just from the earth then there is no need for any rain at all, but only the fire and brimstone. Consider this, take one righteous person and put him in a room with six wicked persons, the six wicked person will indeed benefit from the life of the righteous even though the righteous will be vexed sorely surrounded by those wicked persons: but remove that righteous one and leave only the room remaining with the six wicked souls, and there no longer will be any goodness at all in that room, none, but only wickedness.
---Eloy on 2/13/10


Joseph, that was just awesome what you wrote. Worth repeating:

""Does this mean that God does not love all people?" No.
"Does he hate those who are committing these sins?" No.
---MarkV. on 2/12/10

Well, repeating and a little clarifying. GOD does not love all people. Example.Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

And his lineage.Jeremiah 49:10
....: his seed is spoiled, and his brethren, and his neighbours, and he is not.

Sinners can sell/trade their birthright.
Hebrews 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
---Trav on 2/12/10


There is a kind of love between God and sinners. We call it the "love of benevolence", In that God allows the sinner to go on living one more minute on this earth. God lets it rain on the just and the unjust....And then there is God's "complacent love" [a pleasure in, affection for, admiration of]. God has absolutely no complacent love for the sinner. The sinner hates God, disobeys God, ungrateful to God for all His favors, would kill God if he could. Construing God's love of benevolence as a love of complacency is fatal. Instead of divine forbearance leading to repentance, it is used as an excuse for non-repentance. Thus the sinner is not saved but damned by God's love of benevolence.
---catherine on 2/12/10


Josef, "These six does Yhwh hate...proverbs 6:16-19. Thus says the Lord God: "I command all flesh to repent and to do my will, and then will I bless you with length of days, and all my goodness I will shed abroad upon you, if you will hear my words and keep my commandments. Do not be deceived, for I love the righteous and I hate the wicked, I always have and I always will, says the Lord. Now repent and do the first works, else your sin will find you out, and I will recompense all your evil upon your own head. Now if you truly want to be in my love and want to be with me, then repent and do my will: but if you remain in your sins then you will remain in my wrath and in my hatred."
---Eloy on 2/12/10


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oseph, that was just awesome what you wrote. Worth repeating:

""Does this mean that God does not love all people?" No.
"Does he hate those who are committing these sins?" No.

"Hereby know we love, because He laid down his life for us: God [demonstrated] His own love [for] us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." 1Jo 3:16>Rom 5:8>1Jo 4:10>1Jo 4:8
What man would not be included in the "us" above?"
---MarkV. on 2/12/10


LOVE THIS POST!!!! AMEN!
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I absolutely LOVE this verse. By the absolute foolishness of preaching the Gospel God will save those who believe. Here God made it SO EASY that no one is without excuse...


My dear friends, we are living in dangerous times, false teachers etc.

EVERY WORD of GOD must be listened to...every little word, in EXACTLY the way He spoke it. Don't be descieved by those who fool around and twist God's word to fit into their doctrine. Ask for back up. ALL truths come in 2 or three. If one cannot provide the backup, just tell then to BACK UP and move away!
---kathr4453 on 2/12/10


If he is on the road to distruction, why doesn't he use his free will to save himself?
-markv

Markv, God simply asks us to change our mind and Believe Christ and let Christ save man and change man to do the will of God.
No one has ever said man can save himself.
Man can change his mind and follow God through Christ and be saved.
Why do you think Christ said "Who so ever will"?

But they can't if they aren't told the truth.
That is why we have the fivefold gifts.
Especially EVANGELISM. Why bother telling people if they are just robots and can't change their mind about God?
Or do you think Jesus said "who ever God created to be saved"?
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


Joseph, that was just awesome what you wrote. Worth repeating:

""Does this mean that God does not love all people?" No.
"Does he hate those who are committing these sins?" No.

"Hereby know we love, because He laid down his life for us: God [demonstrated] His own love [for] us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." 1Jo 3:16>Rom 5:8>1Jo 4:10>1Jo 4:8
What man would not be included in the "us" above?"
---MarkV. on 2/12/10


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MarkV
1 God hates sin because its rebellion against him. selfishness is rebellion, he hates it.
2 I agree, God did know Adam/Eve would do what they would do or he would not have made provision for us to be reconciled back to him.
3 He hated Esau before he was born because HE knew the same was in his heart as with Adam and Eve- DISOBEDIENCE and Selfishness
So, he used it for his Glory- Turned a bad situation around for HIS glory- bible says God does this all the time.
4 Predestination is BY Christ only. God has not chosen the saved before they are born because God's plan is to save who so ever will. That means who ever CHOOSES to believe Christ.
If God chose already, He would not have sacrificed himself on the Cross like that.
---miche3754 on 2/12/10


"Does this mean that God does not love all people?" No.
"Does he hate those who are committing these sins?" No.

"Hereby know we love, because He laid down his life for us: God [demonstrated] His own love [for] us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." 1Jo 3:16>Rom 5:8>1Jo 4:10>1Jo 4:8
What man would not be included in the "us" above?
---Josef on 2/12/10


KarenD, we are to share the gospel with others in the hope that others will become saved as we are saved. Some will accept, and some will reject, and some will accept just a little and think on what we give them and then later they will get it all. One plants the seed, one waters the seed, and God gives the increase. Blessed be the name of the Lord, for his mercies are new every morning, and his faithfulness is onto a thousand generations.
---Eloy on 2/12/10


Eloy, I knew you knew the Truth when you said,
"KarenD, You are supposed to tell sinners the truth, else how will they ever know that they are on the wrong road to destruction"
If he is on the road to distruction, why doesn't he use his free will to save himself? Because it really means nothing, he is still going to hell.
You knew inside your heart the person needs for God to be the object of His salvation that is why you tell him the Truth, "you are suppose to tell sinners the Truth" where you later say, "else how will they ever know that they are on the wrong road to distruction"
kind of defeats the whole purpose for fighting for free will.
---MarkV. on 2/11/10


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KarenD, You are supposed to tell sinners the truth, else how will they ever know that they are on the wrong road to destruction. For example, if you see a person standing on the side of the street and they are about ready to step off the curb into the street and will get hit by oncoming traffic because they are not paying attention, would you not take action and either yell to warn them or grab them and pull them back onto the walkway to save them? or would you say and do nothing and let them get hit? So too, we are commanded to warn the sinner of the end to come, and then afterward if they refuse to hear and repent, then they are solely responsible for the judgment of destruction which they will receive.
---Eloy on 2/11/10


"....If he is allowed to hate someone, why do we have to love our enemies and turn the other cheek? Why can't we voice our opinion to them and tell them they're going to hell if they don't repent. That wouldn't be moving in love, right?" Donna 2/9/10

God is allowed to do whatever HE wants to do. If Jesus told people about hell, why shouldn't we tell them? Jesus even told some that they were of their father the devil. Why can't we tell them they need to repent or they are going to hell?
---KarenD on 2/10/10


Miche,
First, if God allow it or permitted it, why does He hate it?
Second, He did give them a choice knowing full well they would disobey since He is Omniscient knowing all. And we know He knew also because "Christ was foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world"
Third, talking about Esaau "the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad," had not done anything bad, "The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated:" He hated Esaau before he was even born. why? "that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him who called"
---MarkV. on 2/10/10


miche, God commands ALL to repent and to be saved. And when a person refuses, God does hate them and he will refuse them also: and when a person accepts, God does love them and he will accept them also. So does God love one person and hate another? of course he does, and rightly so: God does not wrest judgment as man wrests judgment, he does not acquit the guilty nor condemn the innocent, for the faithful servant will receive the Lord's joy and the wicked servant receives the Lord's wrath. period.
---Eloy on 2/10/10


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Yes, it is true, God did not create sin. God did however allow sin to enter. God allowed the free will of Satan and man.

You cannot touch, taste or feel sin. Sin is that which is disobedience to God. God does not do away with sin in our life, he does away with the sinner. Crucified with Christ.

If everyone obeyed God, there would be no sin.

God created Lucifer and man PERFECT. Man's free will God ALLOWED messed it up!
---kathr4453 on 2/10/10


Markv,
Nice post and very good questions.
The answer as to why God allowed it was because God created us with self will and gave us a choice from the beginning. Eat of tree of Life and live with him for ever or disobey God and eat of the tree of Know. of Good and Evil.
He gave us a choice and we made the wrong one.
He sent Jesus to fix our wrong choice.
But you are going to rebuke that we have self will. You are going to say God does the choosing.
When in reality it is God who provides the choices and allows man to make the choice just like he did from the beginning.
---miche3754 on 2/10/10


No God did not in creation hate Esau, but as He foresaw He predestined. Did God hate Esau, yes, God hates sin and has hated those that sinned. God said in the sixth day of creation that it was "all very good." Did God create evil, or did Gods' creation sin after evil entered the world, and does this mean evil entered man before creation? Is man born evil, or in flesh that is bent to sin, does sin that entered the world lead man eventually to sin? Christ did not absolve the children first, before saying such are the Kingdom of heaven, does this indicate other than sin that does not lead to death, and sin that leads to death?
---DeWayne on 2/10/10


The question really is, if God hates sin and not the sinner, then why did He permited or allowed it to enter? He is God after all, and could have prevented it to enter in so many ways. He could have kept the serpent away from both Adam and Eve. He could have put angels around the forbitten fruit. He could have made man without the ability to sin. He could have created a different plan. This questions are very difficult because they go right to the nature of God. He allowed it and that should suffices the issue because we just don't know why. We can speculate why He allowed it, theologians have done that for years-that is called the problem of theodicy or why God permitted evil. It could not have entered without the permission of God.
---MarkV. on 2/10/10


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KarenD, that is right: "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I HATED?" Malachi 1:2,3, Romans 9:13. "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. And having made a whip out of green stems he drove out all them out of the Temple." Hosea 9:15+ John 2:15.
---Eloy on 2/10/10


If we believe that after we have accepted Christ we can say to those who have not accepted Christ, "God loves me more than he loves you," be very careful. Truly experiencing salvation will lead us to LOVE the unsaved, cry for their emptiness, NEVER thinking, wrongly, "God loves me more than he loves you."
---Geraldine on 2/10/1

Amen!
---miche3754 on 2/10/10


The common English translation of John 3:16 is not accurate, and John chapter 3 and verse 36 should be included together with verse 16 when read, because half-truth is false doctrine. lit.Gk: "For God he so loved the harmony, so as the Son of him, the single-sired he gave, that all in who obey him be not abandoned, but have life eternal. Whom obeying to the Son has everlasting life, but whom disobeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on that one." John 3:16 AND 36.
---Eloy on 2/10/10


So Joe are you saying that God can't change an EVIL heart?
You really think the enemy is that strong?
WOW!Talk about giving him too much credit and doubting God on what he can do.

Karen, please go back and read my post. I said God hated Esau because of his sin in his heart.
See the word "BECAUSE"? it is the reason WHY God hated Esau.

God says he can do all things and I believe him 110%!
---miche3754 on 2/10/10


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If we believe that after we have accepted Christ we can say to those who have not accepted Christ, "God loves me more than he loves you," be very careful. Truly experiencing salvation will lead us to LOVE the unsaved, cry for their emptiness, NEVER thinking, wrongly, "God loves me more than he loves you."
---Geraldine on 2/10/10


karenD--When did this God is love (only) doctrine ever get started?

I imagine it is an outgrowth of Jn. 3:16. "For God so loved the world (that's a pretty inclusive word!) that whosoever believeth..." Did Jesus die for everyone?
Most Christians believe so on the basis of this scripture. What greater love could there be? He died for sinners, therefore He didn't hate them because of their sinful state.

Does God ever fail to have mercy on us when we truly repent? If He hated us, He might.
But,His word describes Him as one...
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.
---Donna66 on 2/10/10


The Bible does not say that God hated Esau's sin. It says he hated Esau. Where do you get that it was the sin God hated when it clearly says God hated Esau?
---KarenD on 2/10/10


An Evil-hearted man is EVIL ~ PERIOD. You CANNOT separate the sin from the sinner. And though the Fake Reverends of America REFUSE to teach it in the churches of YOUR CHOICE, Revelation 2:23 says that For the sins of their impenitent Parents ~ JESUS WILL KILL THEIR CHILDREN WITH DEATH!!! Now please, tell me more about that "Nothing But love, mercy and forgiveness Fairy Tale god" of the False preachers... because THE TRUE GOD is also the God of HATE, WRATH, VENGEANCE, and all sorts of things that Pay-Per-View pastors REFUSE to teach about.
---JoeMcDaniel on 2/10/10


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false doctrine says God loves all: but true doctrine says: I judge righteous judgment, and all the wicked are under my wrath says the Lord. I hate them with perfect hatred, says the Lord, think not that I love the wicked, for I have prepared a lake of fire and brimstone for all them I hate, and not love, says the Lord. Fill full your cup of woe, for as you have given it will again be given onto you, full measure into your own bosom says the Lord. In utter darkness there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The smoke of your torment will go up forever and ever: and your fire will not be quenched and your worm will never die, says the Lord.
---Eloy on 2/9/10


So it IS the SIN not the sinner, that God hates.
---miche3754 on 2/9/10

I really do agree totally with miche3754.

My reasons are the same: God is love. How can he hate a person? So he DOES hate the sin, not the sinner. miche3754 post makes much more sense than KarenD's.
---Donna on 2/9/10


He loves everyone but not their sin.As a matter of fact God doesn't even look at sin.If people sin a lot God does not notice them much.Satan is quick to move then.
---shirley on 2/9/10


In Genesis 3 we read that after Adam and Eve sinned God told them what the consequences of their sin would be, including being forced out of Eden. But before they had to leave, God made clothes for them out of animal skins, and dressed them, like a father would treat disobedient children. His love for them did not vanish. Also, we need to be certain we are using EXACT definitions for love and hate as we study.
---Geraldine on 2/9/10


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KarenD, you make some really good points. But here's where my confusion lies. God is love, so how can He hate?

Secondly, and I'm just asking so you can educate me. If he is allowed to hate someone, why do we have to love our enemies and turn the other cheek? Why can't we voice our opinion to them and tell them they're going to hell if they don't repent. That wouldn't be moving in love, right?

But I like your post. It makes alot of sense. So please give me more insight on this. Thank you.
---Donna on 2/9/10


Karen, God didn't hate the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. He hated what they were doing that was why he sent the angels. To see if there were any people there that did good things.
Since there was only Lot and his family, God rescued them and killed the rest for their actions.
God hated Esau because of his actions and what was in Esau's heart. He sold his birthright for food! that was where his heart was.
So it IS the SIN not the sinner, that God hates.
---miche3754 on 2/9/10


Haven't seen a scripture yet that says God does not hate. It does say that he hated Esau. And Proverbs 6 does include several references to hating those who do certain sins. It doesn't say God hates the sins. It says he hates those who do them. When did this God is love (only) doctrine ever get started? Did HE love the people in Sodom and Gomorrah when he destroyed them? And what about the people who he drowned in the flood?
---KarenD on 2/9/10


God loves and hates, saying: Jacob I love, but Esau I hate. This is one reason why Jesus created a heaven and a hell.
---Eloy on 2/9/10


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KarenD, there are many examples of this in the bible.

Did God hate Adam & Eve after they sinned? No, but they did suffer the consequences of their sin.

Did God Hate King David after he committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband killed? No but he suffered the consequences of his sin.

God can't and doesn't hate people. He hates sin. Read the Old Testament and you'll find out what He says about the SINS of the Israelites. He never says to them, I hate you. He says the things they do is detestable, etc., He always addresses the sin, He doesn't attack the person.
---Donna on 2/9/10


God would not offer the world,which by the way means everyone,salvation through his son if he hated them.God hates sin,evil,as a parent when your children make bad decisions, do you hate them,or their choices?
---tom2 on 2/9/10


Hate does not always mean you don't love a person. It can mean you are very displeased with the person. The Bible says, "God resists the proud," in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5, and I have taken this to mean God is against proud people. But, after a little experience of seeing how God resisting me could help to expose how I was going the wrong way, I have realized God resisting me is for my own good. So, being displeased with me, when I am wrong, is better than God not caring and just letting me go on into worse and worse trouble.
---Bill_bila5659 on 2/8/10


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