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Word Of Faith False Gospels

Have you heard any Word Of Faith, Name It Claim It, Prosperity, Mega Church Teachers/Preachers tell out right lies regarding Bible Truths?

Moderator - All the time.

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Ruben: So you prefer to discount all the Scriptural exposition of Genesis ch1-3, of the woman being Eve, in favour of her being Mary just because Jesus called her 'woman' at the cross? If so, then the bible is going to get cross reference crazy. Wouldn't Satan love that!
You're elders can't withhold Scripture now, or restrain the increasing band of bible expositors, and they won't change unless you in the pew do, even if they admit to the truth.
The internet brought such overwhelming evil, to the point of exasperation, that more people now want truth.

All: Adam sinned and, by God's order, he was accountable for Eve's transgressions too. In that moment she was not the glory of man unto the glory of Almighty God.
---John_II on 2/24/10


"Luther believe in the Real Presense, Mary-ever-virgin, infant baptism.
Ruben

Sure he believed these things until he found the truth.
Mary died a non-virgin. There is nothing wrong with that. My mother did the same thing. Mary "knew" her husband, Joseph, and gave birth to sons and daughters. That proves that her virginity was/is gone.
You think she can forgive sin yet she needed to be saved herself.
You know, Hail Mary, you need Grace, God will give it to you. Blessed by the fruit that came from your womb, Jesus. He will save you. You can be Saved from among sinners.
She got saved because she accepted God's Son as Savour.
Mary wasn't an RC why should anyone else be?
---Elder on 2/24/10


\\ ---Elder questions like this,"If the RCC was so righteous why did they hide the Scriptures from the common man for so long" identifies you as one who knows the truth.\\

Which statement is actually historically untrue, as not everybody could read until relatively recently.

And functional literacy in the USA is still pretty low.
---Cluny on 2/24/10


If in fact Mary were without sin she would be coequal with the Lord Jesus Christ.
---mima on 2/23/10

Mima do you believe Paul is coequal with Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 9:22 "I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

1 Timothy 4:16 "Take heed to yourself and to your teaching: hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers."
---Ruben on 2/24/10


Ruben//Luther believe in the Real Presense, Mary-ever-virgin, infant baptism. If he reveled the truth, in those matters he did, Why do you not believe?

Luther was NOT the only Reformer, nor was he regarded as the new pope of the Reformed church.

While he proclaimed sola scriptura, it is true that he did believe in some extra biblical things such as the ever virginity of Mary despite the fact that the Scripture plainly states she had other kids.

I know Roman catholics want to believe Joseph has the gift of erectile dysfunction but people who have good sense reject that view.
---Lee1538 on 2/24/10




---Elder questions like this,"If the RCC was so righteous why did they hide the Scriptures from the common man for so long" identifies you as one who knows the truth. This practice would be in line with the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. And of course we know what the Bible has to say about the deeds of the Nicolaitanes. Revelation 2:6 says," But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate."
The word Nicolaitanes means "to lord it over the laity."Hummm now who does that?

---mima on 2/24/10


If the RCC was so righteous why did they hide the Scriptures from the common man for so long. After your name list don't forget God's man Luther. You may elect to forget him because of the truth he revealed.
---Elder on 2/24/10

Luther believe in the Real Presense, Mary-ever-virgin, infant baptism. If he reveled the truth, in those matters he did, Why do you not believe?
---Ruben on 2/24/10


Sure the RCC has some truth. They try to pervert that also.
Yes, in the sense that Eve disobeyed the law she transgressed. Adam had not been tricked by Satan as Eve was. Adam was still in his unfallen state. He saw where Eve was and gave up his position to partake of her disobedience.
Therefore sin entered the world (mankind) by one man's sin. We don't find sin entering the world by what the woman did. She suffered for what she did, pain in childbirth for one.
If the RCC was so righteous why did they hide the Scriptures from the common man for so long. After your name list don't forget God's man Luther. You may elect to forget him because of the truth he revealed.
---Elder on 2/24/10


"If you study the Bible you will find that Adam was in transgression and not Eve" (Elder)

Which Bible do you have? Eve sinned as well. Perhaps you are studying one of those comic books.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/23/10


"Ignatius and Ruban write a lot but use very little biblical truth." (Elder)

On the contare, everything I said is in complete agreement with Holy Scriptures and how it was interpreted by the Early God-Bearing Fathers, such as Saint Ignatius of Antioch, Saint Irenaeus, Saint Athanasius the Great, Ssint Cyril of Alexandra (the Father/Pillar of Orthodox Christology), among others. I can bet my life they knew Holy Scriptures more than you.

Sorry Eldy, just because we refuse to follow your 21st century hip Protestant interpretation of Scriptures does not mean we do not know the Truth. I follow what the Early Church taught, not YOUR beliefs.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/23/10




Elder* If you study the Bible you will find that Adam was in transgression and not Eve.

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden...4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.., she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat Gen (3:2-6) She disaobey God, how is that not a Sin!

Elder *Ignatius and Ruban write a lot but use very little biblical truth. It is like reading a comic book. There may be some truthful things in it but you can't live your life by a comic book.

Just because we do not believe in your interpretation of scripture, does not mean we have no truth!
---Ruben on 2/23/10


Ruben: Who had just consorted with Satan? The woman Eve! Who is the only woman in Moses' unfolding account at Genesis 3:15? The woman Eve. Another woman is not mentioned in the bible until ...[citation]. Continue reading Luke until 1:38 to see the exact position of Jesus and His maidservant.
---John_II on 2/23/

John, God is giving a future event, he will put emnity between the Woman and Satan . Jesus is the seed of the Woman and who gave birth to Jesus! Jesus call his Mother Women twice in scripture "Women, what does your concern have to do with me ?(Jhn 2:4).."Women, behold your Son(Jhn 19:27)
---Ruben on 2/23/10


If you study the Bible you will find that Adam was in transgression and not Eve. Sin entered by the man. Everyone that is born of man is a sinner. That includes Mary.
The Holy Spirit placed the seed of Jesus in Mary. Mary gave Jesus flesh only. That is because God abides by His law also. Jesus did not have a sin nature because He is God and His flesh did not have an earthly father.
Ignatius and Ruban write a lot but use very little biblical truth. It is like reading a comic book. There may be some truthful things in it but you can't live your life by a comic book.
---Elder on 2/23/10


Ruben: Who had just consorted with Satan? The woman Eve! She had grabbed her chance to supplant her male counterpart, and then drew him in. Adam heeded Eve's word over God's, so rebukes were imminent all round. God would dissolve that alliance and protect His order by striking enmity between Satan and Eve, and enmity between those who would follow Satan and those who would follow Eve's Descendant. Now a woman's drive is not to collaborate with Satan, but to do anything better than man on her own accord. Who is the only woman in Moses' unfolding account at Genesis 3:15? The woman Eve. Another woman is not mentioned in the bible until ...[citation]. Continue reading Luke until 1:38 to see the exact position of Jesus and His maidservant.
---John_II on 2/23/10


FLESH BEGETS FLESH!

Mary begot the man Jesus. God begot the Christ.

Mary is a finite being and therefore can not beget an infinite omnipresent, omnipotent being who is vastly superior and the creator.

Of course she was a sinner and she had other children by Joseph (brothers and sisters)

So you can believe the writings of the Holy Father or the writings of their unholy "father"
---PASTOR_JIM on 2/23/10


If in fact Mary were without sin she would be coequal(many Catholics believe this) with the Lord Jesus Christ. Or in other words she would be a goddess.
---mima on 2/23/10

We see Mary in the upper room receiving the Holy Spirit with around 100 others. Yes, Mary was a sinner saved.

The Bible says the sin of the FATHER is passed down, also stating that in ADAM all have sinned. God is Jesus Biological FATHER, having His FATHERS DNA. Children ALWAYS have their FATHERS BLOOD TYPE!!! That's how many KNOW who te father is.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/10


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Mima, you are correct that Mary was a sinner like the rest of us.
The reason Jesus could be born of Mary, a sinner, and NOT have her sin is because of who and what Jesus is and has inside him.

Jesus was fully God in human form. It is because what was in him was sinless- his heart spirit, soul, which is GOD!

Remember that Jesus said it is not what a man puts in himself that is sin. It is what comes out. Out of the mouth speaks a man's heart.
Jesus heart is GOD! and God is without sin.
People stop being obsessed with the flesh because it is not the flesh that saves!
---miche3754 on 2/23/10


The Catholic Church believes Mary was without sin and was a perpetual virgin. I do not believe either one of these beliefs to be realistic, honest or true.
---mima on 2/23/10


Study these verses and pray that the Holy Spirit will open your heart!

Genesis 3:15 - complete enmity between the woman (Mary) and Satan, sin
Exodus 25:11-21 - ark made of purest gold for God's Word
Luke 1:28 - Angel said to Mary: "Hail full of grace, [highly favored], the Lord is with you"
Luke 1:30 - you have found favor with God
Luke 1:37 - for with God nothing is impossible
---Ruben on 2/23/10


Example of how my views differ from the Catholic Church is, The Catholic Church believes Mary was without sin and was a perpetual virgin. I do not believe either one of these beliefs to be realistic, honest or true.

---mima on 2/23/10


Aren't you basing your views on your own interpretation of scripture and on scripture only? Until you take-off the Anti-Catholic glasses you wll never understand the Church teaching...
---Ruben on 2/23/10


Are my views clouded by my opinion of the Catholic Church? They most definitely are otherwise my views would be wishy-washy.

Example of how my views differ from the Catholic Church is, The Catholic Church believes Mary was without sin and was a perpetual virgin. I do not believe either one of these beliefs to be realistic, honest or true.

If in fact Mary were without sin she would be coequal(many Catholics believe this) with the Lord Jesus Christ. Or in other words she would be a goddess.
---mima on 2/23/10


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Alan, I believe you are correct that Mima's answers are due to what he feels about the Catholic Church. But as to whether he believes in a different Jesus I believe that is wrong. The studies of Christ are complicated. Theologians have been having a hay day on them for centuries. The deity of Christ is the doctrine that is most attack by others. Because understanding the humanity and the deity together is hard unless one takes a total devotion to learning all there is to learn about Christ. We Christians believe who He is because of faith. Faith has no details or anything you can see. We can learn by reading the Word of God very carefully. The Catholics do have some things right, just not everything, those things added by the Church are wrong.
---MarkV. on 2/23/10


Concerning Jesus,
If he is received his humanity from Mary then Mary would necessarily have to be without sin because Jesus was without sin.
It is this problem that caused the mistaken teaching that Mary was without Sin.

Also please address this fact. Jesus was called second Adam. I wonder why? We are certain that Adam,s humanity did not come from a human mother. It is my contention that Jesus humanity did not come from his human mother Mary either but that he got his humanity(he was fully man and fully God at the same time,(in one body) from the same place the first Adam got his humanity namely God the father.
---mima on 2/23/10


Mima ... As Ignatius says, you have to take these verses in the fulll context of the Bible.

If you don't, I could prove to yuo that Joseph was actually Jesus biological father ... otherwise how could Jesus be called Son of Man?

It seem to me that your antipathy to the Roman church clouds your mind and makes you want to downsize Mary, and to make it so that she is not even Jesus' real mother.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/23/10


Mima

"I do not believe... body of Jesus came from the fertilization of Mary's egg."

And we all of us here have told you that you misguided and not following Holy Scriptures and what the Early Church taught. You neither follow Holy Scriptures nor the Tradition lay down by the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, the Early God-Bearing Fathers, and the first Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils. Your beliefs are akin to what the Gnostics of the Holy Apostles' and the Early Church Fathers day believed and taught.

"Hebrews 10 five explains this very well"

But it doesn't say what you want it to say. You have to interpret Holy Scriptures as a WHOLE. You believe in a wrong Jesus!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/22/10


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Mima ... How is it then that the Bible says that Mary became pregnant?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/22/10


---mima* Ruben "all" does not include Jesus. This seems to me to be elementary.

What's elementary is "All" does not mean what you want it to say does it, as you just mention there are exceptions, Jesus, Handicapped and babies and Mary

---mima* Will "all" Israel to saved? Yes I believe they will. I believe that the Jews who perished in the Holocaust will be given new life (during the time of the millennial kingdom) and then be given an opportunity to accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

But you just said " will all" Israel be saved? Yes I believe they will." so why would they need to accept or reject him.
---Ruben on 2/22/10


Catholic is not the False Church. Surely its the one which masquerades itself as good in an effort to deceive, NB. not believing to be true? Watch that no-one deceives you, sadly, as per the question, many prefer to be deceived. By having the Spirit of Jesus, yielding Christ-mindedness, He is in you. And because He takes your falling short, you are in Him. Jesus is 100% human with 100% God's Spirit - perfecting His Glory and therefore walking together in full agreement, that where we all stumble. There's no other way to get near to our Holy God. So why, woman, do you look to Mary's femininity to understand those sins you "had" to commit? And why, O man, do you seek Mary's favour by offering to serve her?
---John_II on 2/22/10


Mima, you are taking Hebrews 10 totally OUT OF CONTEXT. Jesus was absoutely the Lamb of God SACRIFICED on the alter for you and me. Hebrews is stating NO MORE ANIMAL sacrifice....Christ once and for all REPLACED animal sacrifice. This is WHAT Hebrews 10 is all about..NO MORE animal sacrifice!


However in the OT fallen animals blood was acceptable until Christ came. Animals were also subject to the fall!

1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Ephesians 5:2
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/10


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It's MARY who is of the seed of Abraham of the House and seed of David. Now we know Jesus had no earthly father of the House of David seed of Abraham. MARY representing ISRAEL is that seed...Genesis 3:15. Why bother giving Mary's blood line in both Luke and Matthew. One is Mary's one is Joseph's, however Joseph is not Jesus biological father, and scripture never states he is. If Jesus is not Abraham's seed/ and the OFFSPRING of David meaning earthly flesh, then prophecy in the OT is a LIE, or mima you are worshiping the wrong Jesus. Mormons/SDA believe He's Michael the archangel....another wrong Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/10


I believe Jesus Christ was fully man. I also believe Adam was fully man. Futher more I believe Jesus Christ was not only fully man but also fully God.
I do not believe that the embryo that became the body of Jesus came from the fertilization of Mary's egg. Hebrews 10 five explains this very well,"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:"
---mima on 2/22/10


Isn't it the heart and the mind where sin is conceived and not really the flesh?
Doesn't the flesh do what is in the heart and mind?
Didn't Jesus say it is what comes out of a man that defiles him? Matt. 15, Mark 7
Didn't he say renew your mind? Rom.1
These tell me that Jesus did take Mary's flesh without the sin of man because its whats in the flesh that matters- The Heart and mind of God was in Jesus and thats what made him sinless.
Its whats in man's heart/mind that makes him sinful.
And Kath is very right, Jesus had to take Mary's flesh to become flesh, but she didn't have to be without sin for Jesus to be without sin because he didn't have her sinful heart/mind which is in all man not born of God.
---miche3754 on 2/22/10


Ruben "all" does not include Jesus. This seems to me to be elementary.

Will "all" Israel to saved? Yes I believe they will. And I based this belief on Romans 11:15 and the verses surrounding this verse. I literally believe that "the Valley of dry bones" is speaking of a literal Israel. I believe that the Jews who perished in the Holocaust will be given new life (during the time of the millennial kingdom) and then be given an opportunity to accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ. As it stands now many have died without that opportunity and not just Jews but all races.

Just my opinions but there is a Jewish scholar named Arthur Katz who believes this also. I must say we are in the minority.
---mima on 2/22/10


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---mima* The question of mary being a sinner is a great stumbling block for the Roman Catholic Church.

And the answer of Mary was conceived w/o original sin by God himself is by far a stumbling block for most non-catholic christians!

---mima Scripture says" for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" is not mary included in the "ALL" in this statement?

Shouldn't that also mean Jesus, handi-capped, babies.

Besides scripture also says" all Israel will be saved"(Romans 11:26)

If Mary is included in the "All" in the scripture verse you guoted then all of Isreal will be saved, Do you really believe " all of Isreal will be saved?
---Ruben on 2/22/10


Be careful Mima:

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).


Joseph Fielding Smith,LDS stated

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit," (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44, as cited in the book, Mormonism:

However Timothy states there is no other mediator between God and man except the MAN Christ Jesus.

If Jesus were NOT Mary's flesh and BLOOD then He was not MAN!!!
---kathr4453 on 2/22/10


Mima, though we went away from the blog question, I wanted to just say that the subject of Jesus Christ has to be studied in full, and even then you have many questions to ask. Christology is the term given. And unless a person studies theology concerning Jesus Christ, it is hard to answer many questions correctly. Christ in the Old Testament, (preincarnated) and after He was born (incarnated) The eternity of the Son of God is the most important doctrine of Christology as a whole because if Christ is not eternal then He is a creature who came into eistence in time and lacks the quality of eternity and infinity, which charactorizes God Himself.
---MarkV. on 2/22/10


"No one is worshiping Mary.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/22/10"

This statement is outrageous. When you call someone holy, you pray in someone's name other than Lord Jesus Christ's name your commuting an act of worship. You are in fact worshiping the person you were praying to. Now the worship of Mary, even under the best of intentions, is leading many astray(astray here being hell).
---mima on 2/22/10


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Mima "If Jesus fleshly body is the result of Mary's "egg" being fertilized then Jesus would have inherited original sin from mary.
And we know this is an impossibility because Jesus was sinless."

What is Original Sin (Eastern Christians call it "Ancestral Sin")? By far, Holy Scriptures and the consensus teaching of the Early Church Fathers never taught that we inherit the quilt of Adam, rather, they both agree that we inherit the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is death.

Therefor, both the Theotokos and Jesus Christ inherited Ancestral Sin.

"The worship of Mary will lead many astray!!!"

No one is worshiping Mary.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/22/10


Yes, Whenever man or woman mixes money or materialism with God's clear commandments, then the end result is false doctrine. Christ is not about amassing wealth on the earth, but just the opposite: for we real Christians share what we have with those who have not, for it is more blessed to give then to receive: the body of water which continually moves out, will refill with new water and remain fresh for all: but the body of water which does not disperse out cannot refill, and will become stagnant and full of all manner of disease and death for all.
---Eloy on 2/21/10


Yes, Whenever man or woman mixes money or materialism with God's clear commandments, then the end result is false doctrine. Christ is not about amassing wealth on the earth, but just the opposite: for we real Christians share what we have with those who have not, for it is more blessed to give then to receive: the body of water which continually moves out, will refill with new water and remain fresh for all: but the body of water which does not disperse out cannot refill, and will become stagnant and full of all manner of disease and death for all.
---Eloy on 2/21/10


Mima "Was Adam a man? Who was Adam's mother? Was Jesus called the second Adam?"

And? Holy Scriptures and the Fathers of the Church are quite clear that Jesus Christ took his lineage from the line of David (Matt. 1:1, 9:27, 12:23, 15:22, 20:30, 21:9, 22:42, Rom 1:3). How is this possible if he did not took his Holy Flesh from a human, namely a women, the Holy Virgin Mary, the Theotokos? Was Adam from the line of David?

Your Gnostic doctrine has it's flaws because whereas Adam did not need a woman to enter into the world, Jesus Christ was born of a woman (Gal 4:4). He is called the Second Adam, because whereas the first bought condemnation, Jesus Christ bought Life.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/19/10


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Mima ... You don't like the term "Rent-a-Womb" but it's been used before for surrogate mothers, which is what you suggest Mary was.

When a woman is a surrogate mother, she has embryo, or fertised egg (I'm not sure which) from the biological father and the biological mother implanted in her womb.

Who is the "real" mother of the resulting child? The woman whose egg was used, the biological mother, or the woman who merely provided the womb in which the embryo was inserted?

I suggest that the "real mother" is the biological mother.

The woman who provided the host womb is not the real mother.

The Bible is quite clear that Mary became pregnant .. that means she was biological mother
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/19/10


Mima "a special body was prepared for Jesus."

Yes, God prepared a body for Jesus within the Virgin Mary womb. The Son of God bowed the heavens, and was incarnated, receiving his flesh from the Virgin Mary, and became one with us, to redeemed us. Only the early Gnostics believed otherwise. Holy Scriptures agree: Gal 4:4, Luke 1:31.

"Yes Mary was Jesus' real mother."

Not according to you. If Mary was just a "rent-a-womb", what was the purpose of Mary?

Mima is a Gnostic. Docetism taught that Jesus took no flesh from Mary and that he only seemed to be human flesh but actually had a special body from heaven. He believe in a counterfeit Jesus.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/19/10


Mima, Why I said what I did is that Hebrews 10:5 only refers to a human body. Christ needed a body in order to offer Himself as the final sacrifice (2:14). God prepared that body just as He does ours when we come into the world.
The doctrine of His humanity depends on the reality of a body as ours, His death on the cross, His claim to be Israel's Messiah, His fulfillment of the promise to David of a Descendant to sit on his throne, and his offices of Prophet and Priest. Those who deny the true humanity of Christ, such as modern Christian Science, are just as effective at destroying the Christian faith as those who deny the deity of Christ. The Scriptures bear full testimony to His humanity.
---MarkV. on 2/19/10


\\Even though I was in a heavily Catholic dominated community I was still a little shocked by the ashes on his head.
---mima on 2/18/10\\

Why, mima?

Why were you shocked?

Even most secular calendars mention Ash Wednesday.
---Cluny on 2/19/10


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mima, I also agree with Alan and MarkV.

Yes, the whole concept is hard to understood, how Jesus could be completely human and completely God. However, Jesus was completely human. How He maintained His divinity at the same time He was human would be the challenging question.

At the same time, this is another example how God-fearing, Jesus-following believers can differ on a topic and yet still be "accepted in the Beloved."
---Rod4Him on 2/19/10


Mima, Adam didn't have a Mother, He was created by God out of the DIRT!

Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON... quite a difference.

A special body was not prepared for Jesus in Mary's rent a womb! , the Body means Jesus was the LAMB of God.

A Body was prepared to DIE. God flesh or something other than Human flesh cannot die, this is why Jesus had to be HUMAN FLESH. He had to be OUR FLESH to take OUR SIN!
---kathr4453 on 2/19/10


Catholics as a whole are misled about many things. About Mary, about works, about the sacraments and ritualistic praying, about purgatory, about the second coming of Christ on and on and on.
---mima on 2/18/10


Mima, you also as a whole are misled:

Rapture
OSAS
Faith Alone
Bible Alone
Works play no parts in your salvation.
etc..etc...
---Ruben on 2/19/10


The question of mary being a sinner is a great stumbling block for the Roman Catholic Church.

Scripture says" for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" is not mary included in the "ALL" in this statement?

If Jesus fleshly body is the result of Mary's "egg" being fertilized then Jesus would have inherited original sin from mary.
And we know this is an impossibility because Jesus was sinless.

The worship of Mary will lead many astray!!!
---mima on 2/19/10


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" From these and other scriptures it is evident that Christ possessed a true humanity not only in its material aspects as indicated in His human body, but in the immaterial aspect specified in Scripture as being His soul an spirit. The Son of God possessed a real human body, but its necessary to view Him as having a complete human nature including body, soul, and spirit. Born of Mary.
---MarkV. on 2/19/10 "

I completely agree Mark.

Mark my question to you would be did the first Adam have a human body? Did he have a soul? Did he have a spirit? Who then was his mother?
---mima on 2/19/10


Mima, as Alan, I disagree with your statement. In His humanity He was just like anyone who is human. He possessed a human rational soul and spirit. "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" Matthew 26:38. as to the spirit, "When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in the Spirit" John 13:21. From these and other scriptures it is evident that Christ possessed a true humanity not only in its material aspects as indicated in His human body, but in the immaterial aspect specified in Scripture as being His soul an spirit. The Son of God possessed a real human body, but its necessary to view Him as having a complete human nature including body, soul, and spirit. Born of Mary.
---MarkV. on 2/19/10


Yes I believe Jesus was born of Mary.
No need to be shocked my beliefs are based on scripture. Hebrews 10 five says,"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, BUT A BODY HAST THOU PREPARED FOR ME :" so as you can see a special body was prepared for Jesus.

Having read your statement,"Unless Mary was His real mother, He was not a man, He could not have shared our sorrows, or suffered for us." I would ask you this question. Was Adam a man? Who was Adam's mother? Was Jesus called the second Adam?
.
"Just a Rent-a-Womb?" That is base but at least descriptive



Yes Mary was Jesus' real mother.
Yes Jesus came in the flesh.
---mima on 2/19/10


Mima ... I am shocked that you do not believe that Mary was Jesus real mother. What was she then? Just a Rent-a-Womb?

The Bible account is clear that Mary became pregant. She did not have an embryo inserted in her.

Unless Mary was His real mother, He was not a man, He could not have shared our sorrows, or suffered for us.

I'm glad you have stated your position.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/19/10


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"I not believe Jesus received his fleshly body from his earthly mother Mary.....[but from]Almighty God."

Then you are misguided. You neither follow follow Holy Scriptures nor what the Early Church (1t-11th centuries) believed and proclaimed. You follow the teaching first started by the Early Gnostic sects in opposition to what the Church in the 1st and 2nd century taught. Your doctrine has it's origins in the Apollinarain error, closely allied to Docetism.

"So this statement about me by you is correct."

Yes, you do not believe in the real Jesus (who was incarnated in the Virgin Mary) but a counterfeit. At least the RCC believe in the real Jesus.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/18/10


---Ignatius you are correct, I not believe Jesus received his fleshly body from his earthly mother Mary. I also do not believe the first Adam(you know of course that Jesus was called the second Adam) received his fleshly body from an earthly mother either. I believe both Adams got their fleshly body from the same source Almighty God.

So this statement about me by you is correct.

"You, on the other, side with the early gnostic sects and believe Jesus Christ did not take his flesh from the Virgin Mary, thus you are misguided too Mr. Mima.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/18/10
---mima on 2/18/10


"I ask him and he ever heard of the mark of the beast" (mima)

So the cross is the mark of the beast?

By the way, Ash Wednesday is not only observed by Latin Catholics (Eastern Catholics do not follow Ash Wednesday), but many Protestant sects, such as the Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed Churches, Methodist, Episcopalians, etc hold a special service on Ash Wednesday, although the actual content of the service varies from sect to sect.

Although the RCC are misguided in some areas, at least they believe in the real Jesus. You, on the other, side with the early gnostic sects and believe Jesus Christ did not take his flesh from the Virgin Mary, thus you are misguided too Mr. Mima.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/18/10


The time is drawing when the only battle will be in Christendom. With increasing information traveling the globe at greater speeds, it's getting harder for elders of worthless religions to keep the young indoctrinated, they [elders] will simply die off with no replacements. The swing gate is in demand as folk choose the true or false Gospel, this heading towards God's decisive judgements as per Revelations. Worried? If you're a bible toucher and have been attending a church for some time now, and you don't know how to identify a false teacher, then there's a high probability that you are in the company of one. Then, if you realise that your faith is in your pastor and not in Jesus then that should be conclusive enough.
---John_II on 2/18/10


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Catholics as a whole are misled about many things. About Mary, about works, about the sacraments and ritualistic praying, about purgatory, about the second coming of Christ on and on and on. Just yesterday I talked to a man who had put ashes on his forehead it being Ash Wednesday you know, the beginning of lent for those who follow the RCC teachings. This man was 67 years old when I ask him and he ever heard of the mark of the beast he said, no I don't believe I ever have. When I asked him what he thought Israel he just stared at me. Even though I was in a heavily Catholic dominated community I was still a little shocked by the ashes on his head.
---mima on 2/18/10


Catholics are Christians, but are hindered from better Christ-mindedness by religious dogma, creed, tradition, etc. Satan exploited man's predilection for goddess worship, coupled with the woman's desire to surmount her man to split the church with a schismatic hatchet. Though Catholics are faithful in many ways, upholding Jesus as the One true Mediator is not one of them. Propositioning Verse for reproof seeks contradiction. Mary cannot give you the sidedoor entrance, and nor would she for there is the Door, and anyone who tries to enter by some other means is a thief and a robber [John 10:1-9]. Mariology must be expunged!
---John_II on 2/18/10


Don't tell me, you were once a Catholic and was lead to the light!
---Ruben on 2/18/10


Catholics are Christians, but are hindered from better Christ-mindedness by religious dogma, creed, tradition, etc. As in all churches it's a matter of degree, and why the false church claims so much ground. Praise God for His Word! Satan exploited man's predilection for goddess worship, coupled with the woman's desire to surmount her man to split the church with a schismatic hatchet. Though Catholics are faithful in many ways, upholding Jesus as the One true Mediator is not one of them. Propositioning Verse for reproof seeks contradiction. Mary cannot give you the sidedoor entrance, and nor would she for there is the Door, and anyone who tries to enter by some other means is a thief and a robber [John 10:1-9]. Mariology must be expunged!
---John_II on 2/18/10


Have you listened to how many of these people say they are God?
---Rob on 2/18/10


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name it claim it? after I gave my tithe to these megapastors because they said that god promise to 'open the doors of heaven you will not have any room to contain it' verse, the only thing I receive from them are labels with my name & address on it.

WOW!!! real scam.
---jim on 2/16/10


Ruben ... Your attitude is one of those things that perpetuates the damaging hostility between the denominations in the Catholic Church, which is the WHOLE BODY of Christ's folllowers here on earth.

The Roman Catholic Church is just one part of it.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/15/10


Carve the words of our brother moderator in stone.."all the time."
I heard a woman pastor (yes I know its not Pauline) claim she was going to have a baby though had earlier suffered a Hysterectomy.

That was over a decade ago and the only development is that her teenage daughter got pregnant and I guess claimed the child she gave as a prophetic word. I would have been the biggest miracle from the womb since the immaculate conception.
---larry on 2/15/10


Ruben ... That's where you are wrong.

You have to believe all those things to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/12/10


Alan, the "Catholic" Church believe in all of those things from the beginning...
---Ruben on 2/15/10


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Ruben ... That's where you are wrong.

You have to believe all those things to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/12/10


.. Like you, I am a member of the Catholic church, but not RCC or Orthodox

One of the problems is that members of the RCC are taught that the term "Catholic" refers only to the RCC.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/11/10

To be a member of the Catholic Church is to believe in the Real Presense in the Eucharist, Mary-ever virgen, Mother of God, infant baptism Pope..etc....Because that is what they taught and believe.
---Ruben on 2/12/10


Things are going to come tragically crashing down and persecution of Christians will be rampet. The very teachings of false teachers will judge them. We need to remember that to "gain is" not necessarily "Godliness" as these ones teach. They have not built on the Rock and will wash away.
---jody on 2/11/10


Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in 110AD, was the first to name the Church, "Catholic", and in during so, he was talking about the "universality" of the Church, not referencing the Roman Church (,pistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/10/10

He also wrote this:

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).
---Ruben on 2/11/10


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Ignatius ... Like you, I am a member of the Catholic church, but not RCC or Orthodox

One of the problems is that members of the RCC are taught that the term "Catholic" refers only to the RCC. Many even seem to say they are "Catholic" rather than "Christian". One here has compared Christians with Catholics.

The divisions between the two wings of Christianity are maintained & exascerbated by that sort of thing as well as by the ignorant anti-Catholism so often shown on these blogs.

There is much to unite us, but sadly there are those on both sides who will deny this.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/11/10


David

It is unfortunate, that many here associate the word "Catholic" with the RCC, despite the fact that word "Catholic", originally, have nothing to do with the Roman Church. A lack of knowledge of Church History bring about the confusion.

Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in 110AD, was the first to name the Church, "Catholic", and in during so, he was talking about the "universality" of the Church, not referencing the Roman Church (,pistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2).

Research how the first generations of Christians use the word "Catholic" to describe the Church. A lack of knowledge of the Early Church Fathers usage of the word cause confusion.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/10/10


"Ignatius does the following statement reflect what the Catholic Church teaches?

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents Mary as Mediatrix and an equivalent to Christ Jesus as the one who reconciles God and man." " (Mima)

I am not a Catholic (neither a Roman [latin] nor a Eastern Catholic), so why are you asking me?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 2/10/10


Ignatius does the following statement reflect what the Catholic Church teaches?

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church presents Mary as Mediatrix and an equivalent to Christ Jesus as the one who reconciles God and man."
---mima on 2/10/10


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I believe that under the convenant of grace that I became an heir of Christ and inherited all the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places, all good things pertaining to life and godliness, all of God's promises, my citizenship in heaven, peace with God, etc...Any church, pastor, teacher, etc.. which teaches that my blessings from God are based on my performance or behavior other than the finished work of Christ is not in accordance with scripture. 1st Cor 2:12 tells us we receive all things freely from God. The blood of Christ paid for all our blessings. We serve God not to earn our blessings but because He has already freely blessed us with all of them.
---Bob on 2/10/10


Ignatius,

I know you mean well and I am nobody,just a servant like you. You are correct there is 1 church but you also carry false assumptions about how that church manifests into the world. The rock the church is built on is Jesus. The name Jesus means God Saves. Peter was called Rock because it was revealed to him who Jesus was and he listened to that voice ("blessed are you Peter for you could not have known this except through my father"). All good things come from God. That is another way to describe the rock on which the church is built. I am in no position to judge the catholic organization but Peter is and he will.
---DavidA on 2/10/10


See related blog "Characteristics of Pastors".
---Leon on 2/10/10


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