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Is Living Together A Sin

Is living together a sin if you plan on getting married?

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 ---Moderator on 2/15/10
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--- Darlene 1 :

Sister, It's erroneous to claim that it's a sin to live together without being married : and by no means God's Word. The Lord in 1 King 17:9, sent Elijah to dwell/live together with a woman, so they both would be sustained !!

Your honest endeavors to share the informational facts, of the world's secular knowledge, will never Spiritually bring to Light the Discerned meanings of God's Knowledgeable Word : although you don't See nor Hear it quite yet, but at least you're aware that you're sharing the wisdom of the world's secular knowledge ... and this is a good start & a step in the right direction to having your ears & eyes open !!!

Grace Unto You Sister & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T on 2/24/10


-- Darlene 1 :

no one needs anything Spiritually enabled to understand what it means--Darlene_1

Sister, Your really don't know what spirit guides us into God's Knowledgeable Word, do you !!

We have received, not the spirit of the secular world, but the spirit of God, that we might know the things freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's secular wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches : comparing spiritual things with spiritual, not secular with secular.

... Don't act as a secular man who cannot knows nor receive the meaning of the things of God's Spirit, b/c they are Spiritually Discerned, and only appear to him as foolishness & not needed. 1Cor.2:12-14
---ShawnM.T. on 2/24/10


ShawnMT fornication as a word is a secular word no one needs anything Spiritually enabled to understand what it means. I gave its origin,which is a fact,it began because the Brothels were in the cellar of buildings with arched ceilings which were called a Fort,thus the people who went to them became in secular language,fornicators. The word didn't enter the English language until 1303,but that does explain why it was used in the King James version of the Bible in 1611. I honestly tried to share information with you but you really aren't interested in anything but any excuse to put someone down and call them names. I'm through trying to share with someone who wants to argue and call names more than hear facts.
---Darlene_1 on 2/23/10


Cluny:

Actually, the chronology is like this:
10-18) Jacob saw Rachel and fell in love
19) He and Laban made an arrangement
20) Jacob worked for 7 years
21-24) Jacob got married, Laban unilaterally broke the arrangement by giving him the wrong wife
25) Jacob was upset
26) Laban used the lame "tradition" excuse
27) Laban offered a post-facto amendment to the agreement
28) Jacob accepted the amendment

Note that love was the very first point.
Also, even today, there are usually arrangements (who pays for the wedding, where it is held, whose grandparents the firstborn will be named after, etc.)

KarenD:

No, and I never said there was.
---StrongAxe on 2/23/10


The War Within
Romans 7:14-25 reveal the normal Christian life as a continuous battle against the sin nature that still dwells within all believers. This sin nature still has mastery over our flesh, and when we try to win this battle with in own strength we fail.

Phil 3 We need HIS POWER. His resurrection POWER!

Romans 6: Sin within...shall we continue in sin that Grace may abound? NO! Our old man is Crucified with Christ.

Romans 7: Why is the crucified life so hard?(war within.

Romans 8: How do I do it? Ans: no longer I but Christ in me.

Romans 7:1-6: Explain and prove 6:14

Im no longer under law because I died

7:16 not the laws fault

7:17 it is sins fault my sin nature
---kathr4453 on 2/23/10




Lee1538, Phil 3 Start with:

That I ,may KNOW HIM and the Power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering...I press on.

Romans 7 is a bridge between Romans 6 Crucified with Christ (our old man)= the fellowship of His sufferings, and the Power of His resurrection = Romans 8 walking in the spirit.

Paul in Romans 7 is actually EXPLAINING Romans 6 so people can go on to Romans 8. It's the , who what when where how and why we have these struggles.

Notice Lee Paul ends with a most astounding statement in Romans 7....Oh wretched man that I am (the old man) Who will deliver me from this body of this death Answer Jesus Christ. We pres on, however noone acheives sinless perfection in this life time.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/10


StrongAxe...I find no Bibilical reference to a woman living with an alcoholic prior to marriage because he is going to treatment and they are going to get married "someday" or a couple living together prior to marriage to see if it works out or a couple having children prior to marriage that was acceptable by Bibilical standards. Can you????
---KarenD on 2/23/10


\\consider the example of Jacob and Rachel (Genesis 29) - he married her out of love, not arrangement. (And they were also first cousins - something I think that few would recommend using as a role model).\\

Actually, Laban only allowed Rachel to be married to Jacob after he "arranged" for Leah to be married first, and "arranged" for Jacob to work an additional 7 years.
---Cluny on 2/22/10


//Read what Paul thought b/4 salvation in phil 3...he didn't struggle with sin, he though he was blameless. It wasn't until AFTER Paul got saved he had a Romans 7 experience.

What Paul was doing was trying to live up to a standard from what he was taught and he was very successful.

But it is very clear Paul considered himself a sinner not yet having attained to perfection even in Christ.

Php. 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

But the natural mans's struggle in obstaining some standard, is quite different from that internal struggle the Christian has between the flesh and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
---Lee1538 on 2/22/10


Yes,yes and yes,again. You are playing the role of someone you are not and giving him something he does not deserve right now. Let him marry you first and then, he can sample the goodies. Not before. If he loves you and have the right intentions toward you,this should not be a problem for you or him.
If you are a Christian, you should definitely not be living with a man/woman before marriage. This works both ways.
---Robyn on 2/22/10




Francis - //If you are struggling with sin, that means that you are having a difficult time with obedience to the ten commandments.
------
So perhaps that is your problem? You really do not know Christ.
---Lee1538 on 2/22/10

Lee1538, I disagree, I believe Francis is having difficulty in understand who and how we are delivered from sin( only Jesus can set you free!...

The fact that Fracnis IS having this struggle PROVES she now has TWO natures Fighting within. The unsaved don't struggle with sin.

Read what Paul thought about himself b/4 salvation in phil 3...he didn't struggle with sin, he though he was blameless. It wasn't until AFTER Paul got saved he had a Romans 7 experience.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/10


Cluny:

Once again showing that most of the anecdotes in the Bible are examples that showed what happened, rather than being ironclad rules prescribing behavior for all time, consider the example of Jacob and Rachel (Genesis 29) - he married her out of love, not arrangement. (And they were also first cousins - something I think that few would recommend using as a role model).
---StrongAxe on 2/22/10


Francis - //If you are struggling with sin, that means that you are having a difficult time with obedience to the ten commandments.

try reading Romans 7:22-25 'For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.'

The nature man cannot have this kind of struggle as he does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. So perhaps that is your problem? You really do not know Christ.
---Lee1538 on 2/22/10


\\(One may argue that "we do things differently now", but when one looks at what is sin and what isn't, shouldn't one look at the models in the Bible, rather than current culture first?)\\

Actually, there's one other ingredient in Biblical marriage practices that most pop-evangelical Christians would rather be shot than follow.

Marriages were arranged by the families involved, NOT by the couple themselves. As Tina Turner sang, "What's love got to do with it?"

And NOBODY has come up with Biblical evidence (BCV) about what a married couple must do to be really, truly, and validly married in God's eyes.
---Cluny on 2/22/10


Rhonda:

Unfortunately, when the church is involved in just as much moral decay as the world, it is hard for the world to take us seriously.

The voices screaming the loudest about "sanctity of marriage" and "family values" are conservative Christian politicians and ministers, many of whom are divorced or adulterers.

It is one thing for libertines to do such things - they doesn't think it's a sin. But those who preach against it and still do it are self-righteous hypocrites, like the Pharisees Jesus screamed at (they and the temple money-changers are the ONLY groups he screamed at).

Romans 2:24
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."
---StrongAxe on 2/22/10


a curious thing when the world defines and defends ITS values and standards given by the god of this world to the perfect Holy Laws of God ...especially when the world is drowning in moral decay

living together is a sin ...anything that is done against God is a sin ...not all flesh has the will power some "christians" claim when they live together in abstinence ...seeing marriage is a bond of due benevolence they live in contradiction to what married life represents and its blessings ...further under guise they are higher than other "christians" because they use their "will power" to abstain

by choosing to live together in an uncommitted relationship claims of future marriage is to go AGAINST God
---Rhonda on 2/20/10


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An old but very true statement is "Even the best laid plans go awry". It's so easy to say, "we plan to marry" and thereby justify sinning now. Your feelings (no matter how sincere) and plans may well change. Sin is never justified by your "plans", whatever they were.
---Donna66 on 2/20/10


This week we heard from one man in counseling that he did not want to get married until he could give her the big wedding she deserved. They have three kids!!!
******

that is so true today ...society goes backwards living for the god of this world instead of The Father in Heaven

although in my semi-large city we have lots of women at my childrens school who have kids and are STILL waiting on their "man" ...the one's who waited the longest usually find the man moves on finding another easily done WITHOUT a commitment - no messy divorce in his wake just a few kids she will have to prove are his if she wants support
---Rhonda on 2/19/10


Sue, I think that many Christians are liberal in the way they think now. Everthing goes. They have no boundaries. If you know something to be sin, you should not do it. I know it's hard but you have to wait it out. Get married first.
---mary on 2/19/10


Alan, I am with you on this point also. Physical attraction is one of the reasons we come together as a couple. I believe almost everyone, not all, wants to marry someone who they believe is not ugly. Looks have a lot to do with our selection of a spouse. Not the only thing but one of the things. The flesh responds but the spirit discerns what is good for you as a Christian. Maybe if you and someone else are the only persons, then you would have to take that person as a wife, or else stay single. No other choice.
---MarkV. on 2/19/10


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\\In my understand what is required for a marriage is:
1: public knowledge that the two are pledged to each other
2: " knowing" each other

In that order
---francis on 2/18/10\\

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the Hebrew word YADAH has sexual significance in only 10 of the nearly 1000 times it's used in the Hebrew text. The rest of the time, it means "to have congnitive experience of", that is, "to know" in the orindary non-sexual sense.

And the notion that sexual intercourse is necessary to complete a marriage is actually a Roman Catholic idea.

It's not taught by the Aposotolic Christian Churches of the East.
---Cluny on 2/19/10


KarenD:

There are more things involved in getting married than just getting a license and a justice of the peace.

If you look at weddings in the Bible, none of them mention getting licenses, or hiring rabbis or ministers or anyone else to perform the cermony - but all of them mention wedding feasts, which can be quite expensive.

(One may argue that "we do things differently now", but when one looks at what is sin and what isn't, shouldn't one look at the models in the Bible, rather than current culture first?)

Also, married couples are taxed differently. While I am not familiar with other countries, in the US, married couples pay more tax than singles. This is called the "marriage penalty".
---StrongAxe on 2/19/10


Yes, living together is sin. Yes, lusting after someone else is sin. And no, no one marries someone because they look at the women as if they were your sister. In fact no one wants to marry their sister unless there is something wrong with them mentally. Jesus could look at them as if they were his sister, but Jesus was sinless.
When you marry someone it is because of many reasons. Her relationship with Christ, her conduct, character, manners, and one other reason is, whether she is pretty in your eyes. She might be ugly to others but not to you. So her physical looks to you are very important. Now ask youself a question, why do you judge them by their looks?
---MarkV. on 2/19/10


StrongAxe ... Perhaps until Mark E was actually married, he never thought how nice it would be to hold hands with his fiancee, or to stroke her hair, or to kiss her.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/19/10


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"I think then that Jesus was talking about sexual feelings about someone forbidden to you .. such as someone's spouse .. thus his use of the word adultery."---alan8566_of_uk on 2/18/10
Exactly. On a natural tip, adultery can only be committed if one or both of the offending parties are married to someone else. The word "lust after" in the verse means to 'covet' in the sense of entertaining thoughts of sexual desire and intimacy with woman known to be another man's wife, or if married, entertaining those thoughts for any women other than one's wife.
---Josef on 2/19/10


You already know the answer and are just looking for a way to make it right and you can't. Wait and it will be worth it. Get married and make it right.
---Bob on 2/18/10


Mary...I've heard the "made our vows before other people" before and it always involved financial matters as the reason the two people didn't want to get legally married. I always figured I'd rather be broke than live in sin. Then there is the "we can't afford to get married" story which is a lie because a marriage license and justice of the peace are both cheap. This week we heard from one man in counseling that he did not want to get married until he could give her the big wedding she deserved. They have three kids!!!
---KarenD on 2/19/10


Mark_Eaton:

If you go up to the wedding day, imagining your fiancee as if she's your best friend's mother, or wife etc. (at least until after the ceremony), wouldn't the thought of your impending wedding fill you with fear or disgust?
---StrongAxe on 2/18/10


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Mark E ... You've got the wrong impression of what I meant, because CN published only the postscript. "Imagination" was probably the wrong word to use anyway.

During the time you were single, and meeting women, did you never think to yourself that some were more attractive than others?. That you never found one's smile nicer than another's, or eyes brighter? Or that you found the women more attractive than the men?

Jesus referred to adultery ... and that means that at least one of the parties is married, and thus there is betrayal of a spouse.

Is it wrong to have desire for your fiancee?

Quite honestly I don't beleive you if you say you had no desire for your lady until after the legal marriage ceremony.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/18/10


I suggest that hardly any of us here has courted a potential fiance/ee, or approached the wedding day without any sexual feelings or imagination.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/18/10

Brother, you better take them thoughts captive before they get you in trouble.

Did you miss the meaning of lust? Until that woman is your wife, you have no claim on her and no right to "imagine" anything about her. Doing so is lusting after her and this is what Jesus meant.

Ever consider how Jesus could have viewed women without sinning? By seeing them as someone elses sister, mother, daughter, or wife. We need to emulate that.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/18/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, In 1 King 17:9, the Lord sent Elijah to dwell/live together with a woman, so Elijah & the woman would be sustained. So to claim that it's a sin to live together without being married, is erroneous and by no means God's Word !!



--- Darlene 1 :

Sister, When it comes to the Spiritually Discerned Knowledge of God's Word, it is a matter of 'Wisdom', b/c it's by which in all our getting we get Understanding. But like the natural man you're only hearing & sharing the world's fleshy definition through religiously traditional bias views : Are you really so foolish, having begun in the Spirit, to think you're now made/kept perfect by the flesh??? Pro.4:7, 1 Cor.2:12-14,Gal.3:2-3
---ShawnM.T. on 2/18/10


I suppose if you just share a house and not a bed and the activities therein it would be border-line okay.....but yes it is a sin to fornicate
---becky on 2/18/10


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"Civil registration of marriage is a matter of local law and custom, not Biblical command. Governments didn't get into the business of registring marriages until the past few centuries - before that, it was up to the Church. And the church wasn't in that business in the beginning either. Marriages were matters of private contracts between groom and father of the bride (called Ketubah in Jewish tradition)."

Civil regestration serves the purpose of a wedding feast, It creates a public record.
---francis on 2/18/10


Please publish!
I've thought a bit more about what I've just said.

What does "lust" mean?

I suggest that hardly any of us here has courted a potential fiance/ee, or approached the wedding day without any sexual feelings or imagination.

I think then that Jesus was talking about sexual feelings about someone forbidden to you .. such as someone's spouse .. thus his use of the word adultery.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/18/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, In 1 King 17:9, the Lord sent Elijah to dwell/live together with a woman, so Elijah & the woman would be sustained. So to claim that it's a sin to live together without being married, is erroneous : and by no means God's Word !!



--- Darlene 1 :

Sister, When it comes to the Spiritually Discerned Knowledge of God's Word, it is a matter of 'Wisdom', b/c it's by which in all our getting we get Understanding. But like the natural man you're only hearing & sharing the world's fleshy definition through religiously traditional bias views : Are you really so foolish, having begun in the Spirit, to think you're now made/kept perfect by the flesh??? Pro.4:7, 1 Cor.2:12-14,Gal.3:2-3
---ShawnM.T. on 2/18/10


francis:

Civil registration of marriage is a matter of local law and custom, not Biblical command. Governments didn't get into the business of registring marriages until the past few centuries - before that, it was up to the Church. And the church wasn't in that business in the beginning either. Marriages were matters of private contracts between groom and father of the bride (called Ketubah in Jewish tradition).

As far as "public knowledge" is concerned, that is why wedding traditions (both religious and civil) typically require two witnesses - which is also a long-established Biblical tradition for establishment of any truth, especially in legal matters.
---StrongAxe on 2/18/10


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The original use of the word fornication began from a Latin word,fornix,from that came word fornicatio which meant a vault,an arch. The term also referred to a vaulted cellar where prostitutes plied their trade to married and unmarried customers. In the USA Law the word meant an unmarried woman and a man regardless of marital status. If the woman was married it was called adultry. Now fornication refers to a man and woman not married to each other. Shawn T,It isn't a matter of wisdom,just reference and dictionary searching. So the man and woman both being single doesn't have to apply because the marital status isn't taken into account as a definning element as much as it once was. Adultry is still defined as a single and a married person.
---Darlene_1 on 2/18/10


"What about when you've made your vows for life before God to each partner in front of witnesses--but before the actual wedding?"

then file the papers with the courts to make it known to the public and that is all you need

In my understand what is required for a marriage is:
1: public knowledge that the two are pledged to each other
2: " knowing" each other

In that order
---francis on 2/18/10


\\YES, living together is a sin before marriage.
---Moderator on 2/18/10\\

And this statement begs the question about what a couple must do to be really, truly, and validly married in God's sight.

Surely the married people on this blog can give answer from the Scriptures about how they are really married in God's sight, and not just living in concubinage (or what the ancient Romans called "contuberium").
---Cluny on 2/18/10


What about when you've made your vows for life before God to each partner in front of witnesses--but before the actual wedding?
---Mary on 2/18/10


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Since there seems to be so much confusion on this blog due to individuals attempting to play word games with each other versus answering the question properly, there is a direct answer to your question.

YES, living together is a sin before marriage.
---Moderator on 2/18/10


\\A wedding (church or civil) serves important legal purpose. It documents the joining of a man and woman to give legitimacy to their children, to establish parental rights and to determine inheritance. Different cultures legitimate marriage in different ways. But all must do so to avoid societal chaos.
---Donna66 on 2/17/10\\

I'm not disputing this, Donna66.

All you are saying, however, is that a wedding ceremony of some sort fulfills societal and legal functions.

But I'm waiting to hear what GOD requires for such a ceremony. (The WHY can wait until we determine the WHAT.)

So far, nobody has answered this question.
---Cluny on 2/18/10


alan8566_of_uk:

The reason nobody has been able to answer such a question is because there IS no answer. While the Bible mentions marriage, and is clear that it is important, nowhere does it provide any details about it. Presumably, this is because the exact minute details are not specifically important.

There are many other areas where the Bible mentions the existence of something without getting into the minute details - presumably because such details are not considered important. (For example, it may talk about baking cakes without offering any specific recipes.) The Bible gives us guidelines by which to live our lives, not a set of puppet strings to micromanage every smallest minute detail.
---StrongAxe on 2/18/10


A wedding (church or civil) serves important legal purpose. It documents the joining of a man and woman to give legitimacy to their children, to establish parental rights and to determine inheritance. Different cultures legitimate marriage in different ways. But all must do so to avoid societal chaos.
---Donna66 on 2/17/10


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\\A ceremony where two people stand before a company of people and before GOD to declare that they shall be joined together as husband and wife. \\

Please tell me where the Bible requires such a ceremony and its details, giving BCV in your answer.

Then describe what ceremony Isaac and Rebecca had, giving similar citations.
---Cluny on 2/17/10


SDtrongAxe ... We've had that question asked before, and I don't think they were ever able to quote one.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/17/10


Mark_Eaton:

Can you point to any specific verse in the Bible that actually mentions any specific ceremony?
---StrongAxe on 2/17/10


Unfortunately, we are so culturally removed from that society, that we aren't familiar with such details that they took for granted. (How many here know how to grow wheat, or how to give away a Jewish bride?)
---StrongAxe on 2/16/10

The point is that there is a DEFINITE ceremony involved. A ceremony where two people stand before a company of people and before GOD to declare that they shall be joined together as husband and wife.

This is not the same as merely "living" together or "common law" marriages.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/17/10


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Hi, bless you Karen, well over a year now :)
---Mary on 2/17/10


Mary...How long have you know your fiancee? Just concerned with you. Have a great day today, Mary!
---KarenD on 2/17/10


Thank you KarenD for your prayers, I do appreciate them, and your understanding of my mental health issues. :) But I am engaged to my fiancee and I'm not going to abandon him in his time of need, right now he has quit and is proud of it and I couldn't be more proud of him. Sure it's only been a few days but that's a few days head start and each day will get easier for him. We both love Jesus and I know he will get well so I'm praising God in advance.
---Mary on 2/17/10


Mary...I am still praying for you. I understand your mental health issues. However, you need to understand God's word. God does not want you putting yourself through these kinds of relationships just to be with somebody. God wants you to be happy and rejoicing in HIS love. Jesus loves you. Jesus is the only man you need!!!!
---KarenD on 2/16/10


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-- Darlene 1 :

Sister, Fornicators are not just people who are single b/c married couples can be fornicators as well(Matt.19:9), nor is it the same act as adultery !!

You're still only sharing the worldly view of the word fornication. Spiritually it has nothing to do with sexually relations.

Darlene 1, Get Wisdom, for it's the principal thing, and in all your getting get Understanding : b/c a fool has no delight in understanding, but only in expressing his own heart. So to Truly Hear & Understand what the Lord is revealing about fornication, call for you to study the 40 times it appears in scriptures while no longer clinging to what man has put in your heart based on the world's definition of the word. Pro.4:7, & 18:2
---Shawn.M.T on 2/16/10


\\All these show that God's word says there is a definite event called a wedding. \\

And what makes a wedding valid?

THAT is the question you're not answering.

To put it another way, what does the Bible require to happen at a wedding.

BTW--there's only ONE Church that uses crowns at weddings, and it's neither the Roman Catholic or Protestant ones.
---Cluny on 2/16/10


If a couple is living together and NOT having relations, how is doing so "seeking their own desires"? --brother StrongAxe.

StrongAxe, I was, as Darlene, going to issues of the heart and repeat my earlier response. Seek HIS face.
If HIS still small voice is leading you to move in together and "play house" then go for it.
I don't have all the answers but such a move seems inconsistent with guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Were you suggesting living together without intimacy is an imputed desire of the Holy Spirit? God bless.
---larry on 2/16/10


Mark_Eaton:

The Bible acknowledges mentions weddings, but never goes into details about just what they entail. In two of your three examples, "wedding feast" (like our "reception" - a celebration for family and friends of the circumstances of being married) is mentioned, but no specific details about just WHAT "makes" two people married.

The Bible takes for granted people already know what that means, as well as many other things (how to bake bread, weave cloth, raise crops, etc.)

Unfortunately, we are so culturally removed from that society, that we aren't familiar with such details that they took for granted. (How many here know how to grow wheat, or how to give away a Jewish bride?)
---StrongAxe on 2/16/10


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---StrongAxe on 2/16/10

"Remember, children live with their parents all the time, as do siblings, and friends who cannot afford to live alone - and one never questions "their desires" in such cases. Do we suddenly assume that Christians are so totally void of self-control that being within 50 feet of one another for extended periods will drive them into uncontrollable lust? If so, Paul recommends that they marry - however, notice the IF here."

i agree not every one living together is living in sin. Some do it for economic reason, some just friends
---francis on 2/16/10


Give BCV for your answer.
---Cluny on 2/16/10

Song 3:11 "Go forth, O daughters of Zion, and gaze on King Solomon with the crown with which his mother has crowned him on the day of his wedding, and on the day of his gladness of heart"

Matt 22:2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son"

Matt 25:10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut"

All these show that God's word says there is a definite event called a wedding.

Jesus was all-knowing and KNEW the woman had been married 5 times.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/16/10


larry:

If a couple is living together and NOT having relations, how is doing so "seeking their own desires"?

Remember, children live with their parents all the time, as do siblings, and friends who cannot afford to live alone - and one never questions "their desires" in such cases. Do we suddenly assume that Christians are so totally void of self-control that being within 50 feet of one another for extended periods will drive them into uncontrollable lust? If so, Paul recommends that they marry - however, notice the IF here.
---StrongAxe on 2/16/10


\\The "one" she had now was her man but was not a husband. We must conclude that they were living together.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/15/10\\

AHHH....but what was it that made at least one of the previous men her husband?

THAT is the question that is never answered.

Give BCV for your answer.
---Cluny on 2/16/10


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Larry thank you. To those who say I'm wrong this is the Bibles view. You don't have to have physical contact to sin in that way. Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you. That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has commited adultery with her already in his heart. Adultery is used for one married person having intimate relations with someone other than their spouse. I used the word fornication because the people were both single,but it is the same act. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. On that verse alone people shouldn't live together without being married for it does give the appearance of evil. A couple in love and in close quarters like that will have lustful thoughts and it is commiting adultery/fornication.
---Darlene_1 on 2/16/10


I believe it is. Hebrews tells us Fornicators and Adulterers will be judged.

Also, the bible tells us: Avoid all appearances of evil.
---Donna on 2/16/10


living together is not a sin.
sleeping together ( haveing sex) is a sin if you are not yet married

The problems with living together are:
1: people will talk, a good name may be ruined
Proverbs 22:1 A [good] name [is] rather to be chosen than great riches, [and] loving favour rather than silver and gold.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.


2: Living together increases risk of temptation

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
---francis on 2/16/10


You are correct Darlene. I'm not sure how living together before marriage fulfills Paul's "reputation of wisdom" or glorifies the Father as a witness to the unsaved. We are to reflect the Savior and parsing whether living in proximity is the same as intercourse misses the point of holiness and who HE is.
If you are not having intimate relations with your fiance then why not seek HIS face instead of your own desires?
One could always argue whether living together is no different than occupying the neighboring apartment, but that is just finessing through what we really want to do in our deceitful hearts.
Who do we really think we're fooling?
---larry on 2/16/10


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Yes, living together is sin whether you are going to get married or not. In fact many just don't get married when they find that they have liberty to do what they want since they are not married.
---MarkV. on 2/16/10


Mary, there's a misconception that "the minister" has all the answers. People need to go to Christ and let Him lead them.

Frankly, I am worried for you. You have a fiancee in de-tox. Do you think this will get better?

What do you want? Seek Christ and let Him help you discover what you want. Do you want a fiancee who needs de-tox? If he is the right guy, I suggest that you not be engaged, but wait till he gets life together in Christ with a proven life style.

In your heart you seem to indicate your discomfort in the situation.

From another thread, "buy truth, and do not sell it."
---Rod4Him on 2/15/10


I agree with Karen.

I can understand them living together before engagemnet, if they feel the need to get to know each other and discover if they feel it can be permanent (Not that I approve of this, but it is common today)

But once they've decided and have got engaged, they should marry as soon as they can. Why not? What's the point of waiting?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/16/10


Living together without wedlock as long as no sexual contact is involved is as risky as an alcoholic buying a bottle of his favorite booze and sitting it on the kitchen counter, vowing he won't take even a nip. Remember, we have an enemy (1 Peter 5:8), who walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. He would like nothing better than to find two Christians playing house. "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh." In simple terms that means if I want to lose 10 pounds, I can't eat chocolate cake every day. If you don't want to be tempted to have sex, don't live together. "Put on the Lord Jesus," means you deny the flesh and walk in the Spirit.
---Chery7934 on 2/16/10


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Hi, my minister really encourages my fiancee to go to his meetings (Celebrate Recovery, which is wonderful) and tells him he needs to stop drinking completely in order to have a happy marriage and he agrees. Tonight he is in de-tox but is in surprisingly good spirits (so to speak).
---Mary on 2/15/10


Just wondering why two adults who already are living together and calling themselves engaged don't just go get married. I don't buy the "we can't afford to get married" answer either.
---KarenD on 2/15/10


-- Darlene 1 :

Sister, Anything man does without God's Guiding Spirit is sin, but living together out of wedlock is not the sin of fornication(1King 17:9) which keeps us from inheriting God's Kingdom. 1 Cor.6:9

You're sharing only the world's definition through traditional bias views of those who religiously embrace that fleshy costume as their Justification to continue to still enter Heaven. Dogma is keeping you from Rightly Dividing God's Word fornicator, and Discerning its True meaning to understand how it keeps us from Heaven.

Darlene 1, Are you so foolish, having begun in the Spirit, to think you're now made/kept perfect by the flesh? Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law of flesh, or by the Hearing of Faith?
---ShawnM.T. on 2/15/10


Mary...What does the minister say about your fiancee's drinking problem?
---KarenD on 2/15/10


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In other words, how does true marriage, according to the Bible, differ from simply cohabitation?

If we can answer these questions, then the issue of sin before marriage will be clearer.
---Cluny on 2/15/10

Jesus saw a difference.

John 4:18 "for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband, this you have said truly."

The "one" she had now was her man but was not a husband. We must conclude that they were living together.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/15/10


\\Living together without marriage is fornication and the Bible plainly says those who commit fornication will not go to heaven. Living together unmarried is a sin.
---Darlene_1 on 2/15/10
\\

Even if nothing sexual happens, Darlene_1?
---Cluny on 2/15/10


I'm struggling with this one. My minister feels it's not great but as long as we're not engaging in sexual sin, it's okay. That's how my fiancee feels too. We've definitely made vows to each other with rings in private (well actually in front of witnesses at the stores where we got our engagement rings--yes, he wears one too), and we are 100% committed to each other and just waiting for the wedding day.
---Mary on 2/15/10


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